DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's camp about extension

Where did I post Hoyer didn't help win games? I didn't you are making things up to fit your agenda.

Follow that?

No.

Doesn't fit your agenda of course not!

jc

This organization doesn't seem interested in trying to win.

Now that is just plain nonsensical...

Why would anyone spend ~ $1,000,000,000.00 on a sports franchise and not be interested in winning?

They don't seem to be trying very hard to put together a winning team. We'll go 3-4 wins next season. Haslam will fire everyone and we'll start all over...again.

If you truly believe this why would you still be a fan?

It would be entirely possible for the purchase of the team to be an investment. If they can make money and not have to produce a winning team then they might be happy with that.

I don't believe that - I think Haslam has taken huge risk and exposed himself to merciless media criticism for shaking up the FO last year because he wants to win. . . at this point I think getting rid of Chud, Banner, Lombardi was probably the right thing to do even though we were a laughing stock for a couple months. I just hope that Haslam can leave the football operations to his team now and leave well enough alone. I think the Manziel pick has Haslam's fingerprints all over it and hopefully having got burnt he will learn valuable lesson.

I agree Mac. I see a lot of folks hammering away at Hoyer as junk as you say but truth be told who have we seen play better in the past oh 15 years.

And who exactly is it that you all have on your radar that is going to come in here and do or be better?

The sad thing is that the FO thinks that Hoyer is junk as well and in my mind they are out of their collective minds. Signing McCown to a 3 year deal at what 35 is like buying a ticket for the titanic, the only place your going is to the bottom.

Closing the books on Hoyer is stupid in fact as stupid as it gets, especially when you factor in the choices we actually have, and the fact that Hoyer has what 17 starts to his name.

SAD is all that comes to mind....

Pet for his part said the team was all about finding a QB and the answer comes to them as McCown, what part of hell are they hearing voices from. SAD

Can we start with the premise that Hoyer is a solid backup QB, not of starter quality? Also that he wants a shot to be a starter somewhere and that he expects to be paid as such?I don't believe that we see Hoyer as an everyday starter; his ceiling is not that high, and that is the reason(s) he is likely gone elsewhere.

It seems apparent that the FO is holding out hope that Manziel can become "our guy". Signing McCown to be a short term bridge starter and a mentor to Manziel is logical and supports their opinion. Interesting to note that Rich Gannon fully supports the McCown signing. I do believe (or at least hoping) that McCown can play at a higher level than Hoyer. You need to keep in mind that McCown was NOT brought in as a replacement for Hoyer, but rather for the reason I previously stated.

I do not believe that the FO is finished at the QB position so I expect either another FA signing, but more likely a draftee. Connor Shaw is not the answer.

With what we know so far, it appears that the Browns are bound and determined to start Manziel, and to find out once and for all if he can play at this level. I don't think they thought that could happen with Hoyer here. So they get McCown in the event (um, likelihood) that he can't. But they have to see Manziel to be sure he can't play before admitting failure with a first round pick in 2014. Thusly, they can't have Hoyer mucking things up by winning 8 or 9 games, which would keep them out of a high enough draft position to get a Connor Cook, Cardale Jones (if he plays like he did in 3 games last year), Christian Hackenburg, or any other QB phenoms in the 2016 draft. See, I think Brian Hoyers future in the NFL is as a highly valued (and necessary) backup QB. Brian Hoyer is the quintessential "Bridge QB", while Josh McCown is the perfect "Bridge To Nowhere QB". He is the embodiment of "Fail for Cardale", "Dishonor for Connor", or "Quack for Hackenburg". Josh McCown is the raising of white flag on the 2015 season before it even starts. I hate feeling this way about my team, but I don't see how else to look at it.

Part of me hopes Hoyer lights it up next year with another team.

But I also can't believe that the FO is dumb enough to believe that McCown is the starter this year. What did we hear that came out of the retreat? Find the QB. Wasn't that the universal message?

I think they are still holding out hope that Manziel is the guy. It's the only thing that makes any sense. Although, there is still a rumor floating around out there that his days with the team may be numbered. We might know something within the week.

The only thing we know for sure is they really disliked Hoyer. There has to be more to this story because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

mac: So you're saying we will be worse this coming season than last? McCown is not a step down from Hoyer; he is at least as capable and probably better...

I believe the FO is not finished at the position, and we haven't even played one snap yet and you are already writing them off. That's OK, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I simply don't share it...

Nah, you've got me wrong. I wanted them to re-sign Hoyer. I don't think he's a long term answer, but I could actually see us winning 9 or 10 games with him. I never wanted Manziel and was upset when they took him. I don't even especially care about his off the field behavior. I just don't think he can play. McCown is Doug Pederson.

What I do think is that there's an animus towards Hoyer by either Farmer or Haslam, or both, for reasons unknown. They act like he called their mother a whore.

I don't think there's a better option in free agency, although I could be convinced to make a switch if the option were to be Jay Cutler, because he has elite skills.

They are hedging on Manziel success or failure, but if he fails, they might very well lose 12 or 13 games this year. Which puts them in top 5 draft order.

That isn't new news. For months I had in my sig as the number one thing to do this offseason was sign Hoyer. I erased it after we signed McCown.

There are people who's opinions on here I like quite a bit...Mourg and Memphis come to mind...who don't have much use for Hoyer. I don't mind disagreeing with them. I think the fundamental difference for me and those other guys is I don't believe Hoyer is a finished product whereas many see him as a finished product.

So yes, I wanted to sign him and yes, I think he gave us the best chance to win this upcoming year. Hopefully Manziel is still on the team and somehow gets things figured out, else we won't win more than 3 games with McCown. Farmer will be fired for sure at the end the season under that scenario and possibly Pettine too. And round and round we go.

I have zero excitement for this upcoming season. First time I've ever felt this way.

This is a general response to some of the replies given.

Rish surprised to see you have reached the same conclusions I have, we were at odds with one another during the season to see you come around says a lot about you.

For those that are still holding out hope for JM, I wish you luck with that and I mean it. I can live with being wrong on him, but believe he is a lost cause.

If it were me I would hang on to him thru camp but short of him doing a total reversal and dedicating himself to being a NFL QB I cut his ass at the close of camp.

I don't get the assumption made by many of you that Hoyer couldn't nor would he help JM, in truth the FACTS say different. Remember when JM was named the starter, remember what Hoyer said. You TRY to paint a picture of a guy that isn't about the team and nothing and I do mean nothing is further from the truth. Hell any rookie coming into the league could learn a lot about football and preparation and work and leadership from Hoyer even if he NEVER spoke a word to them just by watching.

I don't want a QB on my team that doesn't want to start period. The only folks that have a problem with Hoyer saying he wants to start are the ones that cling to JM as a hope and are willing to sink the ship if he fails by letting Hoyer go you take all hope of winning away IMO. I have grown to hate losing but quite a few of you seem to be able to stomach it for a drunken lazy entitled spoiled brat. Good luck with that.

This FO and the HC are a disaster there just is no other way to look at it. What they are doing now is reversing the progress we made last season for what? Why?

The only explanation is to lose so they can pick at the top of the draft. I like to pick at the top of the draft to but to lay down and take a beating no sir that just don't work for me.

Ok.

If you love someone u let them go. They must have loved Brian a great deal.

It would seem that if we look to draft a QB...then the answer is no - maybe .500 is the best for a rookie?. Since there does not seem to be any viable Free Agent QB's that would be well above Hoyer's ability, that would seem to be No also.

Would a FO limit QB depth chart to really put the focus on 1 QB (JM in this case) as the only viable starter - to avoid having "put Hoyer back in case mid-season" and also solidify your 'all in' with JM?

Unless we plan on being a 70% running team, with a massive D focus.. then maybe JM would be OK?

I do have a question for the guru's as I for sure am not...If you have a mobile QB like JM is supposed to be, is your line blocking schemes the same as a pocket passer? Maybe I am wrong in my understanding, but pass-blocking and run-blocking are 2 different schemes. So if we were going to be a run-first option, would JM be a better QB for that type of blocking as opposed to a non-mobile QB? I guess the question is more along the lines - do you build a line blocking scheme around a QB who likes to roll out and what does that look like?

Not sure if I asking the question correctly?

I really hate when these threads descend to implying some kind of homosexual motivation on the side that favors a certain player. Maybe they just prefer a guy that went 9-6 as a starter, which may have happened 2 or 3 times since '99. Yeah, its either get rid of him or you're on his jockstrap.

bttb, man, I agree with everything you say about Hoyer being a better option than McCown. In my opinion, FO is a in a no win situation. They must make the JFF pick work. Having Hoyer does not make that ideal.

Think about it if they dump JFF today how silly they look for drafting Johnny. If they sign Hoyer, they will most likely have separation in the locker room. Farmer/Pettine's job in Cleveland is riding on JFF at least having some success. If he plays like he did end of last year...bye...bye...let the GM/coaching search begin.

I would hope they would not fire GM and Coach based on the JM decisioon solely.... we need to stop this one bad draft and you are gone mentality IMO

I think both Farmer and Pettine have a mulligan for 2015, for keeping their yaps shut about the Manziel pick and FO texting the sideline. I can't prove Haslam was behind those ill-conceived ideas, but its what I believe really happened.

I believe it's early in March and we don't even know who will be on the roster at the QB position by training camp.

With those facts firmly understood, I'll wait until there is some conclusion to those issues before responding.

Others may be wise to do the same before looking foolish later on.

Texans targeting Hoyer

And then:



Link

If Houston signs Hoyer, does that mean Mallet will be available, or will they cut Ryan Fitzpatrick? I'd take Mallett or Fitz over McCown.

Ok QB gurus... legit question

How much better is Hoyer than Mallet? or vice versa?

Honest question - I know little about QB play... excpet how to stop it.

I don't think Hoyer is any better than Mallet at this point. However, BH did get a chance to show what he can do and RM has not. At least RM "looks" like an NFL qb and can make all the throws. At the right price, he is worth a shot.

Pointless post.