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I like this signing... For what it's worth, the latest Madden update had Buster Skrine rated a 79 and Tramon Williams an 86  Just by signing with us his overall will probably drop 10...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Williams gives them short term insurance if Gilbert continues to be a waste, but long term letting a good CB in his prime walk is a big time screw up if Gilbert doesn't pan out. Unless I'm reading that wrong, that's the reason they let Skrine walk. There's no reason to keep him if they don't think he's in their long term plans. They also would have a pretty good idea on how they think Gilbert will turn out, I'm guessing they feel pretty good about it. I would imagine you are correct in how the Browns value Gilbert. Hopefully they are right. My point is that the debate about how smart it was to let Skrine walk is more to do with how Gilbert turns out than what Williams offers us this year. If in 2017 we are drafting another 1st round CB because Gilbert stinks and Skrine is still a solid CB then these guys will be gone anyway.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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No doubt. If Gilbert turns it around then the Browns did the right thing. If in turn he does not, then the FO dropped the ball. Therein lies the gamble of what they did.....time will tell.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Glad we covered that base. Seems like a good signing to me. Glad to see some ink at last.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Packers had their reasons for not overpaying to keep Tramon Williams GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The Green Bay Packers' decision not to get into a bidding war to retain Tramon Williams said one of two things: They believed the uber-durable Williams, who turned 32 on Monday, was in decline. They felt confident that Casey Hayward, who heretofore has been limited to a part-time role as a slot defensive back, can make the jump to full-time outside cornerback. Or perhaps it was both. The Packers remained interested in retaining Williams, but indications were they were offering only a two-year deal that averaged in the neighborhood of $4 million to $5 million per season. Although the exact breakdown of the three-year contract Williams signed Monday with the Cleveland Browns was not yet available, one report said it averaged $7 million per season. The Packers admired Williams' durability; he played in 140 of a possible 141 games (including playoffs) since he first made their roster in 2007. But they were fully aware that he might never return to his 2010 form, when he intercepted nine passes (including in the postseason). That season led to the four-year, $33 million contract extension that ran out this month and made Williams an unrestricted free agent. The numbers supported the argument that Williams got beat too often last season. According to ProFootballFocus.com, he allowed 10 touchdowns in 18 games, including the game-winner by Seattle's Jermaine Kearse in overtime of the NFC Championship Game. Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, according to PFF. That number had never been higher than 85 in Williams' first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/...tramon-williams
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I like this signing... For what it's worth, the latest Madden update had Buster Skrine rated a 79 and Tramon Williams an 86 That represents more research than the Browns typically do before a player acquisition.
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For invisible sarcasm you should use the black font. 
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I like this signing... For what it's worth, the latest Madden update had Buster Skrine rated a 79 and Tramon Williams an 86 That represents more research than the Browns typically do before a player acquisition. Real talk.
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Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, according to PFF. That number had never been higher than 85 in Williams' first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career Sweet.
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Packers had their reasons for not overpaying to keep Tramon Williams GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The Green Bay Packers' decision not to get into a bidding war to retain Tramon Williams said one of two things: They believed the uber-durable Williams, who turned 32 on Monday, was in decline. They felt confident that Casey Hayward, who heretofore has been limited to a part-time role as a slot defensive back, can make the jump to full-time outside cornerback. Or perhaps it was both. The Packers remained interested in retaining Williams, but indications were they were offering only a two-year deal that averaged in the neighborhood of $4 million to $5 million per season. Although the exact breakdown of the three-year contract Williams signed Monday with the Cleveland Browns was not yet available, one report said it averaged $7 million per season. The Packers admired Williams' durability; he played in 140 of a possible 141 games (including playoffs) since he first made their roster in 2007. But they were fully aware that he might never return to his 2010 form, when he intercepted nine passes (including in the postseason). That season led to the four-year, $33 million contract extension that ran out this month and made Williams an unrestricted free agent. The numbers supported the argument that Williams got beat too often last season. According to ProFootballFocus.com, he allowed 10 touchdowns in 18 games, including the game-winner by Seattle's Jermaine Kearse in overtime of the NFC Championship Game. Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, according to PFF. That number had never been higher than 85 in Williams' first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/...tramon-williams interesting.. I see they left out the part where he was targeted heavily and still graded out a positive 1.6 per PFF. Not big fan of PFF ,.... I did noticed they also graded Skrine out at a negative 6.2.. So based on those numbers looks like a good upgrade. But I can see where they did not wan top pay him $7 mil... sort like we didn't want to pay Skrine $5
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, according to PFF. That number had never been higher than 85 in Williams' first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career Sweet. I need the details of the receiver he was covering (#1 or #2) and how often he had help over the top (and who was the help) before freaking out. With us, Williams will never be covering the #1 receiver (unless Haden is injured) and will almost always have Gipson behind him as a safety blanket. In the end I hope Tramon Williams never sees the field because that means Gilbert, Desir, and K'Waun Williams have developed into average to above-average players.
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I like the signing only because we needed to sign someone. I do like that he is a vet. Another guy who can help teach our young players.
In the end, he probably covers Skrine for this season, which is probably all we are really concerned about. Headed in to next season we have to be hoping that Gilbert studs out as projected, and the other guys continue to improve their game. We are probably going to draft another corner at some point. I can't inagine having 10 picks and one not being a corner since those guys can also be core ST players.
I view Williams as a smart insurance policy that mostly comes in to play this season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Not bad - as others have said it seems like he can come in and be a solid db as Gilbert learns...
<><
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin...
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. I am sure we gave this some thought. We have the cap space and I am fairly sure that no matter what, signing this guy isn't going to strap us for cash for years to come. I am pretty sure most everything is up front with little guaranteed on the back end of the deal.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... We don't know Williams' contract details, so let's not rush to judgment. Starks got two years, $8 million. Even if his contract is fully guaranteed (which it won't be) that is not "a ton of coin."
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Right, but we don't know how much is guaranteed and when it is guaranteed. That's all that really matters.
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. I am sure we gave this some thought. We have the cap space and I am fairly sure that no matter what, signing this guy isn't going to strap us for cash for years to come. I am pretty sure most everything is up front with little guaranteed on the back end of the deal. Did I ever say it was mine? I'm having enough time making up for my Challengers payment 
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. This is a horrible way to look at things. The cap space, while plentiful, is an asset. Assets shouldn't be wasted because "it isn't your money." To best insure the future success of our team, we should be using our cap space as wisely as possible. Especially now that we are able to roll unspent cap space over to the next year, it is more valuable to have extra room than ever.
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I agree...I don't want us turning into the Raiders and overpaying a lot of old washed up players (Tuck, Smith, Woodley, etc) I do think Tramon Williams will be a nice #2 patch (hopefully Gilbert can be the player we were hoping he'd be) I was only merely hoping to fill perhaps more needs with our cap room say perhaps TE Gresham 4mill and CB Tarell Brown 3mill...I'm just overly concerned about the vast amount of holes we still have...
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. This is a horrible way to look at things. The cap space, while plentiful, is an asset. Assets shouldn't be wasted because "it isn't your money." To best insure the future success of our team, we should be using our cap space as wisely as possible. Especially now that we are able to roll unspent cap space over to the next year, it is more valuable to have extra room than ever. I agree, but don't try to turn this around in to something it's not. This isn't like we signed the guy to a 35 mil deal with money on the line 5 years down the road. That's my point. There is a floor teams have to meet. This year, this guy helps us meet the floor. I am trying to have a legit conversation with you and tru....don't try to make it sound like I don't know WTF I am talking about. OK? Bottom line is this signing isn't going to impact any future cap space but any meaningful degree. It's not like we are going to have to cut players to make this move, so, the money isn't important.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm just glad we signed someone to occupy some of the cap space whom is still a capable good player (for at least a year) I was worried Haslem was going to roll over all the cap, and just pay the fee/penalty...
Starks and Tramon are still better players than what we had yesterday...at bare minimum they improve our depth and should both see plenty of time
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The salary floor will be met easily through extensions, free agents, and rookie deals.
I think this signing in particular is fine (as long as we didn't guarantee Williams much). I just think saying "it's not my money" is not a good thing to say for the reasons I stated above.
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The penalty isn't even really a penalty. Whatever money that is not spent to meet the cap floor is evenly distributed throughout the roster.
The whole cap floor thing is a farce. It will be met with no problems.
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Last 5 words bolded for purpose of discussion. I get it, tru... I really do. BUT: when we look at what's being paid compared to what we have in cap space, it's really not all that much. AND- if they can contribute from Day One on the field and in the locker room with all their experience, it's short-term money well-spent, imo. The addition of Whitner and Dansby last year can't be contested. They played hard, mentored the younglings, and helped set the tone for the D. Add Williams to the mix with Joe Haden, and we have proven results and veteran leadership within the CB's, as well. He can add another voice to the 'teaching staff' so young guys like K'Waun and Gilbert get a double-dose of adult advice... on-field, in the locker room, and in the classroom as well. "Old" doesn't automatically translate to "Limited impact." ____________ The 'coin' can be handled easily. The investment isn't just in the play on the field... it's also an investment in the team's future after they're gone. It's half of what makes a veteran FA worth what's paid for him. .02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. This is a horrible way to look at things. The cap space, while plentiful, is an asset. Assets shouldn't be wasted because "it isn't your money." To best insure the future success of our team, we should be using our cap space as wisely as possible. Especially now that we are able to roll unspent cap space over to the next year, it is more valuable to have extra room than ever. I agree, but don't try to turn this around in to something it's not. This isn't like we signed the guy to a 35 mil deal with money on the line 5 years down the road. That's my point. There is a floor teams have to meet. This year, this guy helps us meet the floor. I am trying to have a legit conversation with you and tru ....don't try to make it sound like I don't know WTF I am talking about.OK? Bottom line is this signing isn't going to impact any future cap space but any meaningful degree. It's not like we are going to have to cut players to make this move, so, the money isn't important. I didn't see any of that, 'peen. I believe his intentions were above board...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... Don't worry about the coin. It isn't your money. This is a horrible way to look at things. The cap space, while plentiful, is an asset. Assets shouldn't be wasted because "it isn't your money." To best insure the future success of our team, we should be using our cap space as wisely as possible. Especially now that we are able to roll unspent cap space over to the next year, it is more valuable to have extra room than ever. I agree, but don't try to turn this around in to something it's not. This isn't like we signed the guy to a 35 mil deal with money on the line 5 years down the road. That's my point. There is a floor teams have to meet. This year, this guy helps us meet the floor. I am trying to have a legit conversation with you and tru....don't try to make it sound like I don't know WTF I am talking about. OK? Bottom line is this signing isn't going to impact any future cap space but any meaningful degree. It's not like we are going to have to cut players to make this move, so, the money isn't important. Wasn't it last week that there was a lot of complaining on this board about us not signing anybody and we were just sitting on a ton of cap space? So we signed a couple of vets. Did we overspend a little? Probably. Were we the only ones to overspend to some degree? Nope, that's what happens this time of year. Did we break the bank? Nope. Did we put ourselves in a position where we can't do something now that we could have last week? Nope.
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j/c...
1. As much as I liked Skrine and wished he was here. I understand what transpired.
Skrine - is viewed by many coaches as an inside Corner. For an inside corner he was paid top dollar and the jets will have him inside unless there are injuries.
2. We were pretty surprised by the UDFA Williams last year as he grasped our D and improved light years ahead - they were happy with moving him inside replacing Skrine at minimum.
3. Gilbert and DeSir are outside CBs both prospects with big upside.
4. Williams has been in the Pro Bowl he is a ball hawk it was said (before he became a Brown) that he has at least two prime years in him. I suspect he will be here at least 2 years.
5. Right guy and the price is right...he is a Pro Bowl Vet they will get more we didn't disgrace ourselves or gave agents bargaining chips. The guy does have a resume.
Not every one wants to come here...we get it. But we still are building something good. ??? Was Williams released or a FA?
jmho
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Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Was Williams released or a FA?
jmho An UFA I believe...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Cool....maybe I sounded harsher then intended. I just don't see a problem in this situation. No doubt you want to limit deals that have long term impact on your cap and don't want to start overpaying everybody by a few million.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Was Williams released or a FA? a FA. the only one we sign. yea that cost a 4th round comp pick in 2016 if thats why your asking. or maybe not. maybe there is a rule for old players where i doesnt count?
Last edited by pblack18707; 03/17/15 08:17 AM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Wasn't it last week that there was a lot of complaining on this board about us not signing anybody and we were just sitting on a ton of cap space?
So we signed a couple of vets.
Did we overspend a little? Probably.
Were we the only ones to overspend to some degree? Nope, that's what happens this time of year.
Did we break the bank? Nope.
Did we put ourselves in a position where we can't do something now that we could have last week? Nope.
It's just a reflection of an unhappy fan base. Winning will start to cure it... but to be honest I think there are some that won't be happy unless they are bashing something about the team. . . . . . . The Jordan Cameron signing/non-signing was another perfect example. The signing was lampooned as an awful decision - then the same posters blasted the team because we hadn't signed him....  The Browns never said they sign JC - it was a media story leaked when JC was still at the Miami facilities ... gee what a coincidence. None of us know the inner workings of the FO or what the plan is -- but there are several exceptionally plausible explanations based around giving Gilbert and Desir the opportunity to grow into the starting role and having a safety net in place.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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While we definitely needed some players...two 32 year old guys with lots of miles for a ton of coin... We don't know Williams' contract details, so let's not rush to judgment. Starks got two years, $8 million. Even if his contract is fully guaranteed (which it won't be) that is not "a ton of coin." That's true. Giving a "small" amount of money to a couple of experience vets that fill a need is much better than handing over the keys to the city and the kitchen sink to land a few guys like Suh, Revis or Maclin. I like adding Williams & Starks. Experienced guys, probably very high character, and they fill a need for a year or two.
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Mary Kay Cabot retweeted
Tramon Williams @HighRizer38
Y'all think I'm kidding?? The Super Bowl next year is OURS, CLEVELAND!
Gotta love the enthusiasm.
#GMSTRONG
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u drunk bro? RT @HighRizer38 Y'all think I'm kidding?? The Super Bowl next year is OURS, CLEVELAND!
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I agree. Especially in terms of consistency. Sign him before somebody yells, "April Fool!"
Seriously, welcome aboard. Play hard.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Mary Kay Cabot retweeted
Tramon Williams @HighRizer38
Y'all think I'm kidding?? The Super Bowl next year is OURS, CLEVELAND!
Gotta love the enthusiasm. I dig it!
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I will say it again .... I think that we will be a much improved team next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign Tramon Williams
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