DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum browns 2015 free agents

That's just utter nonsense! If we should end up last (and I don't believe for one minute that we will), it won't be because we were intentionally put there...

That would be correct. We went in with 12 free agents, and one had retired so you can really say 11. So we signed 36% of them. Considering a few like McQuastain and some others were throw aways, I'd say we did a good job, and the longer it goes, the better the chance Jordon returns.

I'm agreeing with you.

People are grilling this team and front office right now, but the fact is we have a good nucleus of veterans and young players right now. Add in another 10 draft picks, and probably another veteran or two this free agency period, and yes we look a lot better than last year.

Sheard, Rubin, Cameron, Skrine are replaceable guys.

If our defense is good next year (all signs say it should be), and we get our running game going again, and if McCown can find lightening in a bottle, I think 6 or 7 wins again is possible, if we stay healthy all year maybe 8 or 9 (but I know, that's pushing it).

I don't see a 2-14 season unless McCown & Manziel TANK BAD and we get hit with the injury bug early again....

McCown doesn't even need to be "lightning in a bottle" for us to win..

Assuming he;s the starter (currently, he is) I'm confident he can equal the production that Hoyer put up (not much, but not bad) through the first 10 weeks..

The only question is if we can stay healthy, and it not fall apart again..

Yeah the schedule is tougher.. But EVERY YEAR the "schedule is tougher" and then crappy teams are good and good teams are bad.. etc..

I approve of bold purple.

Well said.

Contract details for players who left the Browns

The four players who left the Cleveland Browns to sign elsewhere as free agents did not exactly break the bank.

The details -- provided by ESPN’s Roster Management System, Over the Cap and Spotrac -- show that even Buster Skrine's $25 million deal with the Jets could wind up being a two-year deal if Skrine struggles.

Jabaal Sheard's two-year, $11 million deal with New England breaks down this way.

A $4 million signing bonus.
A $1 million base salary for 2015, fully guaranteed.
A $1 million roster bonus.
In 2016, the base jumps to $4 million with a roster bonus of $1 million.

Sheard’s salary cap costs: $4 million in 2015, $7 million in 2016.

The fact that the Super Bowl champions moved quickly on Sheard shows they respect him. But the deal is not exorbitant. It seems to essentially be a one-year prove-it deal. If Sheard does not perform in Year 1, the Patriots would save $5 million in cap costs by releasing him before 2016 and would carry $2 million in dead money. The $2 million in dead money is 1.3 percent of this season’s cap space.

Skrine's four-year, $25 million breaks down to:

A signing bonus of $3 million.
Base salaries of $1.5, $6.5 and $6 million the final two seasons.
A roster bonus of $2 million this season.
Annual cap costs: $4.25 million, $7.25 million, $6.75 million, and $6.75 million.

Skrine is guaranteed the first two seasons, even with the increase in cap cost from Year 1 to Year 2. His final two years are not outrageous for a second cornerback or for a playoff-type team with a strong secondary, but he becomes more at risk for release in Years 3 and 4 if he doesn’t play well. At that point the cap savings from releasing him far exceeds the cap cost of keeping him.

Brian Hoyer's two-year deal in Houston is straightforward.

He will be guaranteed $4.75 million. He did not receive a signing bonus, but was paid a roster bonus of $3.75 million today. He will earn $31,250 every game he is active this season, up to $500,000. His base salary is $1 million.

In 2016, the base jumps to $4 millon, with per-game bonuses of $78,125 ($1.25 million for the season).

Hoyer’s cap costs: $5.25 million per season, more than Josh McCown's cap costs of $3.9, $5.04 and $5.04 in his three-year deal in Cleveland.

Jordan Cameron's deal in Miami is based in part of him staying healthy.

A $4 million signing bonus.
$1 million in base pay this season.
$156,250 for each game he is active -- capped at 10 games.
His base salary jumps to $7.5 million in 2016.

Cap costs: $4.562 million in 2015 and $9.5 million in 2016.

Cameron clearly seems to be on a one-year tryout with Miami, because if he doesn’t stay healthy the Dolphins save $7.5 million by releasing him before the ’16 season.

Whether the Browns could have kept all three is a matter of judgment.

Assume that the team simply felt McCown was a better option than Hoyer, which eliminates quarterback.

To retain Sheard, Skrine, and Cameron with the exact same deals they signed elsewhere would have cost the Browns $12.8 million in salary-cap costs in 2015.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...=espnapi_public

MB, somebody got purple stuff all over your post. Hope it is OK.

That Cameron deal shows how badly he wanted to leave. I doubt that we had his contract structured with a "game by game active" paycheck. I mean, if the guy goes on IR he doesn't get paid? Wow. I cannot believe that the NFLPA will look kindly upon that one ..... but I doubt that the Browns had that clause in their deal.

He wanted to leave, and he did. Oh well. A guy who badly wants to be elsewhere is not the kind of guy you can build around anyway.

You make a good point.

I think the reason the Dolphins did it was not to hedge their bets, but to push cap hit into next year for money they will pay him this year through technically "Not Likely to be Earned" (NLTBE) bonuses. NLTBE/LTBE bonuses are defined by whether or not the player achieved the milestones in the previous season. The exception is that all special teams-related bonuses are considered LTBE.

If a bonus is NLTBE, it is not counted against the current year's cap, and if the player achieves the milestone, that bonus is applied to the next year's cap.

If a bonus is LTBE, it is applied to the current year's cap, and if the player does not achieve the bonus level, they get a "rebate" of sorts on the next year's cap for that money.

The Dolphins are really up against the cap this year, but they are putting themselves into a world of hurt for next year... when they need to extend Tannehill.

I just have a hard time seeing the NFL approving a contract where the player only gets paid on a weekly basis if he is healthy and able to play. That seems like a really questionable tactic t me, and one that could lead to problems if a player feels he can play, and the team disagrees. JMHO, but I expect the NFL to take a long, hard look at that deal.

I don't think it's like that at all. Incentives in contracts are the norm.

He get's a $4 million signing bonus. He gets, for the coming year, a $1 million contract - with INCENTIVES worth $156,000 per game played, up to 10 games.

Quote: "
A $4 million signing bonus.
$1 million in base pay this season.
$156,250 for each game he is active -- capped at 10 games."

His contract is really no different than a player that gets a base salary, and a bonus if they play "x percent" of the plays (on o, or d), or a player that gets a bonus for, say, sacks, or td's.

Perhaps. However, I still have difficulty seeing them approve a contract that could put the player in jeopardy by not reporting an injury, or could give the team an option to sit an under-performing player, citing an injury that may, or may not be enough to necessitate the player sitting out a game, or several games.

That already happens.

He agreed to the contract - while he had another offer on the table anyway. It is what it is - signing bonus, plus salary, plus incentives.

The ball is in his court as for any injury that may occur - team gets a decent tight end that WILL get the signing bonus PLUS his salary, PLUS an incentivized $1,562,500.00 if he plays at least 10 games.

The team is protecting themselves - he needs to protect himself. Since he signed, it would appear he's comfortable with the contract. End of story.

The question is, would you want the Browns to pay that contract to him?

I wanted to retain him, but I'm not at all sure he's worth that. Guess we'll find out right?

Fairly certain Jordan Camerom told the media he wanted out of Cleveland, so what does it matter? Why continue debating.

No, that is NOT the question.

Look, he's gone.

The question is Ytown thinking the contract he signed isn't fair, and thinking the nflpa will chime in on it.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Raiders sign RB Trent Richardson to a 2-year worth $3.9M total, source said. It can go up to $4M per year based on incentives.


He got more than I thought he could.

Only the Raiders!

May I revise... MY QUESTION IS: would you have wanted the Browns to pay that contract to retain him?

How's that, does that meet with your approval Gheesh

I didn't even think another team would sign him, truthfully.

That same contract, here in Cleveland? Yeah, I probably would've liked it from the Browns standpoint.

My final thought on our departed FAs...

None of them were highly sought after.. Two of them signed modest deals in places that are better off going forward than we are now (NE, Mia)

It's not as if we lost out in a multiple team, high priced bidding war, or that our FAs got ridiculous contracts..

They were average, to possibly above average FAs, and we didnt bring them back. It won't kill us, just like bringing them back wouldnt have been the key to our success..

I don't even think that "fair" is the word. I just wonder if the NFLPA is going to have a real, and legitimate concern about the deal's structure.

Frankly, I am also shocked that his agent would agree to such a deal.

Exactly.

+1

Sheard is an above average run defender, and a below average pass rusher. Replaceable.

Skrine is good in man-to-man but draws a lot of penalties and is small. CB is our deepest position even prior to signing Tramon Williams. Replaceable.

Cameron is an athletic freak with good hands, but he's a very poor blocker and cannot stay healthy. Replaceable.

Hoyer is a 30 year old backup with a below average arm. He had some very nice moments last year, but he had just as many poor ones. He wasn't this teams future, but wanted paid like he was.

I would take Miles Austin & Ahtyba Rubin both back if we can get them at very cheap prices.

Why would the NFLPA have a problem with it?

He still receives a check. A BIG check in the form of bonuses and salary. The rest is simply an active status bonus that may or may not be reached.

Very similar to other players who may or may not hit incentives such as starting time. I believe you will find that Hoyers contract here had incentive bonuses tied into starting a certain percentage of the snaps.

I simply don't see the difference here.

I was going to "like" this post - but since no one would see that.....I'll just quote it and agree with it.

He has a contract - with a signing bonus, and a yearly salary. He agreed to it........and there are 10 weekly bonuses available to him depending on his play.

No different than a defensive player getting a bonus for every sack over 8, or 10, or whatever. No different than a player getting a bonus for making the pro-bowl. No different than a player getting a bonus for playing X percent of the snaps.

Incentivized contracts have existed for a long time. No need for the nflpa to get involved, unless they also want to get involved in other incentivized contracts......you know, like player Y an extra $50,000 for every sack after the first 6 sacks - but player Y gets his 6 sacks, and then is hurt and can't play.....hey, no bonus.

How the Minnesota Vikings quietly won the Trent Richardson NFL Draft disaster

.

Business Insider
By Tony Manfred
1 hour ago

Richardson was drafted No. 3 overall by the Cleveland Browns in 2012. If he doesn't resurrect his career in Oakland, he risks ending up on the list of the all-time draft busts.

Richardson had a decent season as a rookie, got traded to the Indianapolis Colts two games into the 2013 season, struggled, got benched, struggled again in 2014, and got suspended before getting cut in early March. He's expected to file a grievance to get back his $3 million in voided 2015 salary.

The Browns have been rightly praised (by us!) for selling high on Richardson, getting a 1st-round pick from Indy right before his value collapsed. But when you look at the sum total of what all these different teams gave up to get Richardson on their teams, the Browns and Colts both lost, and there's only one winner: the Minnesota Vikings.

Back in 2012 the Vikings had the No. 3 pick in the draft. The Browns had the No. 4 pick. Terrified that another team would trade up and pick Richardson, Cleveland traded a boatload of picks to move up a single spot in the draft.

Here's what the Vikings got for the No. 3 pick:
•1st-round pick (4th overall)
•4th-round pick (118th overall)
•5th-round pick (139th overall)
•7th-round pick (211th overall)

Even before you factor in Richardson's performance, the Vikings won this trade. According to Chase Stuart's draft value chart, the Vikings swapped 27.6 points of draft value for 33.7 points of draft value. All for moving back one pick.

When you consider how Richardson's career has gone, it's an even better deal. Richardson is going to go down as a below-average No. 3 overall pick. The player the Vikings picked at No. 4, guard Matt Kalil, has been better than Richardson. The 4th-round pick Minnesota got turned into Jarius Wright, who was the team's 3rd-leading receiver in 2014. The 5th-round pick was Robert Blanton, who started 13 games in 2014.

The Vikings didn't hit home runs with all these picks, but they got starters at three different positions out of it. This is what smart teams do. They don't chase individual players in the draft, like the Browns did with Richardson. Bill Belichick — who trades back in the draft more often than anyone — has created the value of "the first overall pick, the second overall pick, and the 19th overall pick" in trades over the years, according to research by Grantland's Bill Barnwell.

Cleveland was able to recoup some of this lost value by flipping Richardson to Indianapolis for a 1st-round pick (26th overall) a year later. They used that pick as part of a deal to move up and draft Johnny Manziel in 2014.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minnesota-vikings-quietly-won-trent-195800141.html


Thought I would put this out here for discussion...

They made out with picks, but like us, the whiffed on several of the them. Matt Kalil was good his first season, but has been terrible since then.

They got a 4, 5, and 7... (Not really my definition of a "boatload")

They took the guy at 4, they would have taken at 3...

I dont even know what the point is of writing an article just to state they "won" a trade..

..That everyone knew they "won" as soon as they made it..

2012 Top Five:

1. Luck
2. RG3
3. RIchardson
4. Kalil
5. Blackmon

Outside of Luck....yikes. Hell, the overall top ten isn't pretty to look at either.

A list of wasted picks excluding Andrew.

remember all the Phil threads? Its just how it goes.

Seattle to host Rubin

It would be nice to see him go to a contender if he has to leave.

And it seems to be a much better defensive fit.

Going from the Browns to the Seahawks? Talk about a downgrade. . .

I am not sure what role Rubin would play for Seattle, but I wish him nothing but success.

Good for him! I wish him all the success for he was a loyal Browns player...