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What did we learn about the Cleveland Browns at the NFL meetings?
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...he-nfl-meetings


PHOENIX -- What key things did I learn from spending time with the Cleveland Browns at the NFL owners meetings?

1) The Browns feel strongly that Josh McCown "stabilized" the quarterback position. Stabilized. General Manager Ray Farmer, coach Mike Pettine and owner Jimmy Haslam all used that word. The Browns believe McCown is the guy to bring order to the position. "He's proven that he can start in this league," Pettine said. The latter point could be argued, but it's clearly what the Browns feel. Or at least it's clearly what they say they feel. Pettine also said: "As we've talked about all along, when you surround your quarterback with the right scheme, and more importantly the right supporting cast, if you feel you have the right guy regardless of what the past history's been, if you feel you have a guy that can be credible for you and be functional, then you go ahead and make that move. That move we felt stabilized the position." There is nothing quite like being "stabilized."

2) A coach and GM can work together even after the GM texted coaches during games about in-game strategy. Pettine said at the combine he wasn't happy when he first learned of the text messages. A month later he said everyone was working well together and on the same page. Asked how that could be, he said: "If you talk to a lot of GMs, those three to four hours [during games] are among the most frustrating. There's going to be questions. 'Why are we doing this?' Fortunately Ray owns it and he chose that way as his outlet, but we get the opportunity to talk each week and we have our postgame audit and those questions get raised as well and we're not going to agree on everything 100 percent. But from a philosophy standpoint, we are very much on the same page. So it won't be 100 percent. Just like any other GM-head coach, it's not going to match perfectly. You're constantly in the process of educating each other, but we both feel like we're very much on the same page and we're moving forward to make this team better." Evidently the front office-coach relationship also has been … wait for it … stabilized.

3) The chances of trading up for Marcus Mariota never seemed lower, and the chances of a second-to-fourth round quarterback never seemed higher. Farmer said he covets numbers of draft picks. Haslam said the team would slowly but surely build more and more with the draft. Pettine was the only one to take it a little farther, saying quarterback was a position that justified giving up picks, but he likes having numbers of picks. Either the Browns have great poker faces, or they are just not that interested in Mariota.

4) The team expects Johnny Manziel back and they will give him a full chance to start. Despite offering excuses for his 2014 performance -- like Farmer saying last year's coaching staff changed the entire approach for Manziel's starts -- the Browns are going to give Manziel a chance to work with McCown. "When [Manziel] is back, it will be full speed ahead for him," Pettine said. "I think he's very anxious at this point."

5) The definiton of "changing an entire offense" can vary. Farmer said the Browns changed everything for Manziel. Pettine, politely, disagreed. "I know the run game stayed the same and I know we had some things in all year that were more suited for a mobile quarterback," Pettine said. "So there was a shift in emphasis there, but I wouldn't categorize those changes as drastic."

6) The Browns may not take a receiver in the first round because they will draft the best player available." I think its hard to go wrong when you take the best players that are available," Farmer said. Pettine said the Browns will try to make the team better in the draft. In his mind "value" trumps need. "If you're picking at 30 [be sure] you're getting a player that's 15th on your board," he said. "That you're not picking at 30 for a guy that's ranked 50th on your board because he plays a certain position."

I thought something crazy happened with all these new threads popping up.

nope... just posting stuff. to inject fresh conversations.

You aren't alone in that. I wondered what disaster had befallen us. I almost had a heart attack when I saw "6 new threads" in Pure Football.

When I got here it was up to 10!

Before actually opening the forum I thought we were slammed with someone selling jerseys. This is better.

On the surface they do all appear to be on the same page. At least by their words. So that at least shows they do talk to each other.

Thank you; that was badly needed as the other threads were getting stale...

Amen to that...

Thanks for posting all this stuff guys... the infusion was needed.

Not sure I buy the WR statement especially when it was followed by BPA comment... there is a greater than zero chance the BPA is a WR.

This was never more evident than when Pettine basically said they had no interest in bringing in Mariota for a private visit, and he would just ask O'Connell. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care if you had a coach that was Mariota's dad. If you are interested in making this guy the face of your franchise, you bring him in for a private visit. Period.

The good and bad news of it all is Mariota might fall to them organically. Good in that no draft picks will be involved. Bad in that they may feel pressure to take him.

On the one hand I'm all for driving competition and making players earn it. Except at the QB position. When you draft a QB in the first round I think you should expect that the job will be handed to them. At the end of the day the pick was made because you believed in the guy. QB competitions are absolutely dumb and crippling to a team.

And besides...hand the job to Manziel or watch McCown go 3-13? I'm going to take the unknown in that case. At least there's some hope there. And then you'll know your answer definitively going into next offseason.

As for the 2116 draft, I don't believe football will be around by then, and I know none of us will. If you want to talk about the 2050 prospects I'm all ears.

I don't think what other teams thought about Manziel...whether he was a first round talent or not...matters here. The only thing that matters is what the Browns thought of him. Not only did they draft him in the first, they traded up to do so.

Do they want him to compete? Maybe. Should they hand him the job? Maybe. They drafted him to be the face of the franchise. There is some element there that screams give him the job. That's why you brought him here.

I just don't think it should be surprising if they hand the job to him, and I don't think it should be unexpected. And I don't necessarily think its a bad thing either.

I think there are more shades of grey here though.

Put yourself in the FO's shoes. Even though guys like me and you wanted to resign Hoyer and make him the starter, the FO obviously didn't believe in him. They certainly didn't believe in him as the starter. And although I wanted to bring Hoyer back, it's hard to argue he's a legit starter. So the FO has this guy who wants to be a starter, and they don't necessarily think he can. But if they do bring him back and he doesnt work out as the starter, is he willing to mentor the guy who they drafted to be the future? Signs from last year indicate that's iffy at best.

So now you've got a situation where you have a guy who believes he's a starter, but you're not sure. If you bring him back and it doesn't work out the way he wants, will he help the next guys? Because you really feel the next guys are your best chance for long term success.

Enter McCown. The FO feels he will be no worse than Hoyer, but a better teammate especially if he's not the starter. And the FO still wants to believe that their evaluation on the guy they traded up to get is still right. They are not ready to write him off yet. If you think about it, it would be foolish to write off Manziel already.

Bottom line, I think the team felt two things...1) Hoyer is not as good as he thinks he is and 2) Hoyer's belief that he is better than he is was going to hurt the team more than help it in the long run. If you add a third point that the team believes Manziel's long term prospects are better than Hoyer's, it's not hard to connect the dots.

Was that the right play? Do I agree with it? I don't know. I thought maybe Hoyer could be more if given another opportunity and better support from the team and coaches. But you have to admit that it was truly a 50/50 proposition. And the team wasn't willing to take those chances.

Not sure I can necessarily fault them for that. I'll be watching Hoyer closely in Houston this year.

.. " It's kind of looking like the Browns fans have been "played" by management," And counting !

.. " It's kind of looking like the Browns fans have been "played" by management,"

.....Since 1999 And counting !

The Browns refused to sign hoyer because he stunk and stinks. Plain and simple.

McCown may not be a prize free agent, however he was the best QB Free agent on the market. This is a fact. Many teams were seeking out his services. Not just Cleveland.

And its not like they paid Josh a kings ransom. He is a veteran QB that will help the young QBs as well as play if needed. I am sick of these Hoyer fans coming up with excuse after excuse about why we didnt sign Hoyer. He's gone, deserved to be gone, and will not be here ever again. What is your argument going to be when he is the backup in Houstan.

+1 Eo.

I agree.

For years fans have said, "oh we didnt give anyone of our QBs a chance or the tools to succeed."

Yet when we try to do that, we are dumbing down the playbook and coddling Manziel. IDK if its pure hate for JF or some weird fatuation with Hoyer.

Plain and simple, Hoyer had the opportunity to run this team and be a player. He could not handle the pressure due to a lack of skills/talent. This will be his 7th year I believe in the league. The only team he had a chance to start for was CLEVELAND BROWNS that should tell you something there!

Well I do think you're reaching just a bit about Chip just making things up to get the media off his back, but otherwise I can see your points. lol

It was hard to read that entire article after the first paragraph involved the words of Josh McCown, quarterback position and stabilized. Lol... but I am really beginning to think the staff actually feels that McCown will play good. Maybe he will.

And I agree with #3, hopefully they aren't interested in Mariota and the hefty requirements to move up to a position to get him. Hopefully they stick to the tune of building and putting good players around the quarterback, and two things... 1. wait until next year's draft or perhaps FA, or 2. see how JF demonstrates where he is in his life, both on and off the field.

All JMO

No remember what Hoyer said when they decided to go to JF? He said I will do all I can to help JF prepare to start. The end Hoyer was and is a team guy, period.

Having said that the powers that be don't believe for whatever reason in Hoyer, and they did 2 things by not bringing him back.

1- there will be no calls for Hoyer when JF fails.

2- There will be no calls for McCown if JF fails.

I don't like their obvious plan but if I can somehow stomach another season of getting our asses handed to us will be in great shape to pick at the top of the draft next season.

This is their plan as I see it.

It starts and ends with JF, its sink or swim time for him and the Browns, he will either step up and grow into his roll as an NFL starter or will be in a position to draft his replacement.

I think they view Hoyer as being just good enough to win some games, but not good enough to get them where they want to go, and McCown isn't so if it gets bad enough we have to go to McCown the loosing will continue, which will lock up the top pick.

I actually think they got it right but man I hate losing I have had enough of it, I hate hate hate it.

Now the thing is do they have the stomach to follow their plan to its conclusion. Its going to get real ugly is my bet they better at least hire some folks to keep an eye on the bridges around town.

I think what they mean by the QB position being "stabilized" is that the QB room will now have all guys who will get along and help each other.

Hoyer didn't seem to be that guy by his own admission when he said he wouldn't re-sign here so long as 1st round pick Manzel was waiting in the wings.

I think his attitude changed over time but I'd also bet it made for a tense QB room, early on especially and even more so after he'd said that and at least still somewhat at the end.

I don't think they really feel that Josh McCown is a savior of any sort. But I do believe they feel it is stabilized compared to last year. I also think the addition of Thad Lewis contributes to that as he at least has some game experience. Last season the only QB with any game experience was Hoyer and he didn't have much at all.

They have to assume he's now the starter. High first-round pick. The man he backed up is gone now. Other QB's on the roster can't claim starter rank by any means.

Johnny gets the ball in training camp, and it's sink or swim. We either get our future starter, or it's Flipper II, and draft another QB next year.

Only thing that could change this current dynamic is a bizarre Free Agent trade / signing of Drew Brees or Philip Rivers, then Johnny gets handed a clipboard again, and maybe a vacation back in rehab.

High first round pick?

That's possible, I guess. But maybe they just feel incredible pressure to make Manziel the starter because of his high-draft rank, and that he was brought in to be the franchise QB, and need a back-up plan (McCown) in case Manziel is a crash-and-burn on the field (and / or off the field).

McCown's not a definite first-stringer, so isn't threatening to Manziel. Start of training camp, no one will say, "Why's Manziel getting first-string reps rather than McCown?"

But if Manziel flames out, at least the FO can say they have a back-up who, in theory, could win three or four games if everything breaks the right way. So at least the FO can say they have a back-up plan, in a plausible deniability kind of way.

If your theory is correct, why did we try and trade a first round pick for Sam Bradford?

We didn't have a play-off team pick, which to me is where the 'low' round picks start.

What, Johnny came on Buffalo's pick??

They figured Bradford would be on injured reserve most of the season.

They certainly can't have great confidence in a Manziel-and-fill-in-the-blank backup QB to fill the QB role.

Before signing McCown (or whomever at that point) they had second thoughts and tried even an implausible alternative like a first-round pick for a frequently hurt but competent starter. Clutching at straws given their likely situation (Manziel-and-backup X).

Now they're stuck with their doubtful first-round pick from last year, as they feared they would be, along with a journeyman whom they hope won't stink too badly if Manziel flops. But that's what they were expecting before making a wild fling at Bradford.

I don't think they have any real confidence in Manziel any way they slice it. On the longshot you get a Bradford, they play Manziel when Bradford's on IR, and watch Johnny fail. Or, they watch Johnny fail, and put in McCown / Journeyman X. I think they're looking past this year and hoping for a better pick next year, and quietly sweep last year's first-round-QB flop under the rug and move on.

And, who knows?? There's a remote, theoretical chance that Manziel could come out of rehab a new man and become a real, starting franchise QB.

Time to scratch my seven year itch! Haven't posted in that time frame but have been creeping....Being an ex-coach I always like reading EOTAB's posts! I'm cautiously optimistic with this regime so I'm getting a little excited, thus a long lost poster returns. It struck me reading these posts that we would have a "throw away season" CAN NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO BELIEVE THAT!

When a parent used to complain to me that "why isn't my kid playing, he's one of your best players" I always chuckle to myself. As a coach I wanted to win a heck of a lot more than anyone else and my livelihood relied on it, so if a player could withstand the rigors and could help me win...heck yeah he played. I gotta assume in the NFL (NOT FOR LONG LEAGUE) coaches / gm would do the same or they would be unemployed.

I agree. At some point creating competition creates distractions.

WOW,, talk about a thread that went off the rails LOL

Anyway, I didn't learn anything from the NFL meeting about the Browns. Other than the penalty will be "severe" for text gate.

Dude you can spin this and likely will anyway you like, just as the Browns FO has but if anyone thinks for a minute that the QB situation is stable in Cleveland your NUTS, period the END.

You don't let Hoyer walk and replace him with 1-10 McCown and call the QB situation stable.

You don't throw out offers for Bradford and say the QB situation is stable.

You don't get a look at JF and clear the decks of all competition when he was lazy drunk and awful in his 1st season if your plan is to win.

This defense will be lucky to treed water this year at best and they too were awful at times last season but did show up at the end, but they did lose some pieces and they did replace others.

Mack laughed when they asked about who would be the Browns QB. Why?

From what I saw last season from JF the only thing his game says to me is lose and then lose some more, same goes for McCown.

I could give a rats ass how well we do or don't run the ball with the QB situation as is based on what I have seen from our so called starters I see lose, lose, lose, so if that isn't the plan then what the hell is the plan?

I echo their obvious beliefs, you CANNOT consistently win games in the NFL with a horrific QB situation like the one we have.

Like I said earlier they are in sink or swim mode with JF. my bet based on what I have seen from him so far is we get our asses handed to us and if its as bad as I think it will be, will wrap up the 1st pick in the draft early on.

So to say per say the plan is to lose it is and it isn't. They plan to roll with JF they don't really believe in him or they don't go after Bradford if he raises his game then great but if he shows like he did last season then their in line for the top pick and that sadly is the plan.

It will hit you at some point. I hate losing but by choosing this plan they IMO have all but guaranteed themselves the top pick.

You don't let Hoyer walk and replace him with 1-10 McCown and call the QB situation stable.
They made hoyer an offer, he declined. Josh M is not a downgrade from Hoyer, they are both backup QBs. More teams were interested in Josh M than Hoyer in FA, so that has to tell you something.

You don't throw out offers for Bradford and say the QB situation is stable
This is a speculative and only reported. In fact, many people are saying Chip made that rumor up to save face...JMO I agree.

You don't get a look at JF and clear the decks of all competition when he was lazy drunk and awful in his 1st season if your plan is to win
What competition did they clear? Hoyer was garbage and didnt want to stay here because he knew he he would have to compete. So he signed in Houstan, where he is going to have to compete with Mallett, and will loose.

This defense will be lucky to treed water this year at best and they too were awful at times last season but did show up at the end, but they did lose some pieces and they did replace others.

This statement just has no bearing whatsoever. Our defense is a year in to a new system, that means they are year wiser. We havent lost much in FA, and in fact we added a better corner and run decent lineman in starks. I believe actually the defense is going to be vastly IMPROVED.

Mack laughed when they asked about who would be the Browns QB. Why?
You would have to ask Mack that question now wouldnt you??? But Mack is a player, not a coach or GM, and his opinion on anything really doesnt matter now does it?

From what I saw last season from JF the only thing his game says to me is lose and then lose some more, same goes for McCown.

I dont know how you can base a persons entire career and skill level on 7 quarters of football. And from what I saw in Hoyer, I can the say the same thing, however it was over a much longer period of time, 7 years worth of football. As for McCown, he was the most sought after free agent QB this year, so I am sure multiple GMs are not as smart or great talent evaluators as you....

I could give a rats ass how well we do or don't run the ball with the QB situation as is based on what I have seen from our so called starters I see lose, lose, lose, so if that isn't the plan then what the hell is the plan?

Great insight. Can you explain you feel that way. We have two second year RBs that had great seasons last year. they are a year stronger, faster, and more wiser. Our OLine is better and going to get better than last year. Our WR position may still need a #1, but it is in better shape than it was last year as well. Overall, our team has gotton better.

I echo their obvious beliefs, you CANNOT consistently win games in the NFL with a horrific QB situation like the one we have.

Again, we dont really know what the QB situation is, I am still saying as is the FO and a lot fans that 7 quarters is not enough to base a man's career on.

Like I said earlier they are in sink or swim mode with JF. This is the only thing you are correct on. But we were sink or swim with anyone in FA, and this draft. What would have wanted the Browns to do? Who out there could we have got???

hey guys, is this the infamous Coach B you guys are always talking about?

BTTB, Hoyer wanted a shot being "the" guy. I get the dysfunctional franchise reports.

What I question on Hoyer's ability is why New York and Buffalo passed. Buffalo traded for Matt Cassel, and Jets decided to stick with Geno Smith. Hoyer landed in Houston to play backup to Ryan Mallett. Hoyer was available for all three teams. Yet, they went a different direction.

Yes, I was surprised, but those were real teams needing a QB. Media can report all they want the udder chaos in Browns FO. The fact is other teams passed on Hoyer, and other teams passed getting Hoyer as a viable backup. Either those guys are not nearly as smart or we have a blind-eye.