DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What did we learn about the Cleveland Browns at the NFL meetings?

Guess what everybody. There is plenty of blame to go round. Blame Hoyer, blame the O-line, blame the qb coach, blame the offensive cord. blame the wr and te. The truth is its a team sport and we failed as a team. All the blame does not go to one person

While I can understand your statement about it being magnified, I still don't fully agree with it.

When I was a young and dumb Private, I got into trouble for stupid things (i.e. not waxing my barracks floor, things out of my control and etc - nothing major) to the point of being threatened with an Article 15. Now during regular days, sure I was stressed about Command and etc. But when we were in the field, or on missions (even with Command overlooking us), it was far from my thoughts. Why b/c I was focusing on the task and also my "teammates" were there supporting me and working together in that field. Losing pay, extra duty, rank, etc...isn't much different than "everyday might be your last".

It's not like a desk job where he has all day to think about it while working. He's in an field environment, where 250-300 lb men are trying to crush him.

I can see Hoyer being stressed during the week, but if he's stressed or whatever in the huddle - surrounded with all his teammates that support him and believe in him and not focusing on that moment....then he's got bigger issues then people overlooking him from the outside.

Just like most, I supported him when he was our QB, but it was time to move on.

imo



*edit* I just wanted to add....I agree with your statement GMdawg, I'm def not fully blaming Hoyer.

Also he def had a part in the 7-4 record, but still it really doesn't mean much. Besides being game managers.

W/L Career records and TD/ints career :
* (denotes best record)

Quincy Carter - 18-16 (2003 10-6) TD 32 Ints 37
Jay Fielder - 37-23 (2001 11-5) TD 69 Ints 66
Vince Young 31-19 (2009 9-6)
Rex Grossman 25-22 (2006 13-3)
Rodney Peete 45-42 (1995 9-3)
Shaun King 14-10 (started one year 2000 10-6)

Sorry to say but you remember it wrong.

I was very keen to what was being said by Pet and believe me he said, " we continue to evaluate the QB position and all positions on a week to week basis". Pet's words the FO nor Pet ever did anything to not feed the monster, its from that posture via FO/Pet that the media fed.

When management could have and IMO should have come out strongly for Hoyer it never happened. QB's have bad games and sometime stretches of bad games its MO that when that happens the staff needs to publicly and privately rally around their guy, Hoyer was never given that level of support. I will this though the players sure as hell rallied around Hoyer, they showed a level of support to him not shown a QB here like since Bernie was the man, to me that says a lot about the player.

I wished we were on to bigger and better things I see 2-14 and I'm pretty damned sad/mad about that.

News flash folks, he aint coming back. Let him go. Its ok. You can move on. My only regret is that he didnt take his cult with him when he left.

Your drunk will soon follow Mourg so enjoy it while you can.

Sad to say it was the only why the lazy drunk could get the job. Now that is truly sad.........................especially when you factor in how bad Hoyer was....

I suppose by seasons end you'll be following JF to the local bar. 2-14 here we come

Mac,
You defend Hoyer by saying he didn't lose all those games by himself but yet you post McCown's stats for last year only and say "look see how bad he is.", kind of a double standard isn't it. Do you realize that McCown played with probably the worst Oline in football last year? Their high priced free agent LT was just released after 1 year cause he stunk so bad. The Buccs Oline gave up 51 sacks last season and a league leading 124 QB hits plus they only managed to run for over 100yds in 5 games last year.

Say whatever u want. JOhnny will be our QB this year and Hoyer will be backing up Mallett. Hey no excuses from me if johnny throws a turd I will say he threw a turd. I wont be like the cultists blaming everyone but Hoyer for his horrible throws. My favorite was you guys defending that turd toss to Gabriel in the saints game and criticize Manziel for running for a TD lol OMG i swear its freaking hilarious.

While I agree that Hoyer would have played better with more support from the coaches and FO, the coaches and front office already had preconceived thoughts on Hoyer. They never liked him to begin with, and he wasn't doing anything on the field to change their minds. Asking them to really back the guy is probably unrealistic.

I know they didn't like Hoyer that was pretty damned obvious, but then why not cut him in camp? Why name him the starter and not support him? It makes no sense, you absolutely MUST support your starter if your to maximize team wins and their playing ability.

Look Hoyer, you me everyone knows that this is the big leagues and if you under perform its likely you will be riding the bench or out of the league, it seemed to me they were always waving that banner at Hoyer, and its a stupid thing to do if your about winning.

I don't think Hoyer's problem was under performing I think it was over performing, they wanted him to hold down the spot until the drunk was ready and he didn't cooperate so they hated him. In the end they started the drunk anyway and that worked out well didn't it?

I hope whomever they decide to run with gets the kind of support they need to be successful, but somehow I think they will likely do a repeat again and again.

I think the number one reason they hated Hoyer was he was a team leader, the players rallied around him and respected him they wanted the players to look to the drunk for that leadership. I just wonder too if their actions won't bite them squarely on the ass, I mean Hoyer was well liked and a team leader some guys in that locker room my not take to kindly to how Hoyer was treated, and it may be why we couldn't get guys we wanted back to re-sign with us??? Don't KNOW???

2-14 here we come, just great.

that's right.

They didn't like Hoyer so much, they hated him so much, they didn't support him so much, that not only did they name him the starter in preseason, but kept him the starter even after all the bum games he played.

Keep making logical post, guys.

At 7-4 you would have to say he was the BEST we had for quite a few moons and you don't turn your back on that unless or until you got something better. You can pick away all you want about the 4 loses but what about the 7 wins? All for a spoiled lazy drunk we spit on a guy who was NOT the savoir for sure but was and is to this day better then anything we do have. That may not be saying much I know, but when its the best you got it makes no sense to turn your back on it/him.

2-14 here we come oh joy.... Happy days are here again.

I see it this way.

The QB position is different its not like all the other positions like golf 80% is between the ears and 20%n is skill. You want your starter to be confident and sure of himself. We knew we all knew and I assume management knew that Hoyer had the game to play. Not PM or TB ability but enough to get this team to 7-4 why not show some support? Like I said earlier Hoyer isn't the savior but he was the best we had at that time and if he were still on the roster he still would be the best we have.

These types of remarks fed the media and I'm sure made Hoyer feel like he was walking on egg shells. The QB position was handled poorly and is a prime example of what not to do at least publicly. You me and everyone knows that in the NFL if you don't play up to snuff your soon out of a job, so what was the purpose of saying what Pet said? How did it help Hoyer and the team. Sure its an honest statement but thats not the point the point is thats not how you handle the QB position.

IMO you show support, hell they even went so far as to say they called in some of the veteran players to ask their opinion on who should start, do you really think thats the way to handle a QB? It was as poorly handled a QB situation as I have seen, and its a story that has repeatedly reeled its head around here. Pick a guy and take his back ALL THE WAY. Not this we continue to evaluate the QB position like all positions from week to week and hey he said that after the Cincy game.

You need to think about that and set aside your like or dislike of the player and look at the situation and how it was handled going all the way back to the very start of the season. I know you may not remember but believe me I didn't like the QB handling thing at the break of camp and as the season wore on it got worse in spite of how well Hoyer played or didn't play. The best you could get was Brian played well today he will be our starter next week, we continue to evaluate the positions like all other positions on the team and that was what was said after the Cincy game.

It was mishandled and its to important to ignore IMO. Instead of gushing or even elation over Hoyers performance in the Cincy game thats the best he can muster in the way of support its things like that that clued everyone into the FO and management not liking the guy, it was an obvious lack of support and I think it hurt us in the end and it was poorly handled I expect better.

If we go 6-10 with a legit medium to top tier QB I think I will do a backflip.

We may have the hardest schedule in the NFL this year

If you're just trying to lower your expectations, ok..

But we are way too talented of a football team overall to only win 2 games.

You seem to make a lot of statements as if they are fact, concerning the inner workings of the front office.

Anonymous Sources™

You and I seem to be on the same page when it comes to the perception of the talent on this team. Plus, I am on record as noting that talent gaps are a myth in the NFL. The only gap for most teams exists at QB.

Where I will disagree slightly with you here, however, is this upcoming season. If McCown is the starter, talent everywhere else or not, I think we will be lucky to win 4 games and will actually be at 3 or 2. That's how important I think the QB position is.

And what I've noticed over the years is that the team will be compete early in the season, lose a lot of close games because the other team is better at QB, and there will be a point where the whole team just kind of checks out because they know no matter what effort they give, they just don't have it at the most important position. That is essentially the difference between winning and losing in the NFL.

If Manziel doesn't make some miraculous turnaround, we have to hope that McCown has some type of Gannon-esque finish to his career. Those are both long shots, IMO.

A Gannon/Brad Johnson type season from Josh McCown would be neat..

But all we really need is a Brian Hoyer type season.. that lasts longer than 9 games.

Yes our schedule is "tougher" but who thought we would beat New Orleans last season?

Division:
Baltimore (10-6) - Lost one of their best players on both sides of the ball (Ngata, T Smith)
Pittsburgh (11-5) - Lost their best coach, and who knows how good they are going to be year to year..
Cincinnati (10-5-1) - Is the Bengals.

Home:
Denver (12-4) - Depending on when it is scheduled, how healthy is Manning?
Tennessee (2-14) - Possibly the least talented team in the league.
Arizona (11-5) - QB is a big mystery.
San Francisco (8-8) - Had IMO a worst offseason than we did..
Oakland (3-13) - Is the Raiders.

Away:
Seattle (12-4) - We could get destroyed. Or they could have a hangover.
Kansas City (9-7) - That offense.. is just.. confusing.
San Diego (9-7) - Differences with Phillip Rivers.
St. Louis (6-10) - How good IS Nick Foles?
New York Jets (4-12)- Is the Jets.

You can question every team, every year.. I see no reason we can't be competitive in every game..

Ironically had Manziel not played after the Bills game, and Hoyer finished out the year 7-9..

We'd be going into 2015 optimistically. Think Manziel will be ok as the starter, no reason to look for any upgrade..

And Johnny would probably still be out drinking..

I know thats who you are TAB, and thats who your being now.

Your the guy that see's a pile of lemons and smiles because your about to get lemon aide. I look at a pile of lemons and go bla lemons. Your trying to bring logic to it, but in truth and IMO their is no logic to be brought to it, it is what it is. Dysfunctional is the word that best describes this FO and staff, sorry to say. The only hope I have and the best spin that I can put on it is this.

They didn't want Hoyer here because he was the team leader they want JF to be, that along with the fact that the fans aren't going to sit back and watch as JF single handedly flushes our season down the toilet, they would as you and I both know be calling for Hoyer, with McCown we pretty much know we are done, so it will be like might as well stick it out with JF and see if he can improve and if he does great if he doesn't we get the 1st pick in the draft a lose win sort of deal.

I can actually get down with that obvious plan because eventually we get a shoot at a top prospect and like others have said we are crap without a QB which is something I have said for years. So it becomes sink or swim with JF and I think will sink not based on what he did in college but what he has actually shown as a pro. Spoiled, lazy, drunk is my description of him and he will decide if that perspective changes. Like it or not you can't homer away that. And I think you have to set aside homer for just a moment then the shine wears off this FO and Pet.

The only good I can see is they can get and do better. On the player side they need to draft character guys that hate losing. SAT

On the coaching side they need to follow thru with their word and hold ALL players accountable those words need to pack meaning.

They need to back their starter at QB 1000% publicly and privately, Bernie said it and I have said it for some time now. We all get the part about if you don't play well but publicly and team wise it has to be full steam ahead with your starter.

No more owners and team presidents in the film room everyone do their job and only their job.

Team Owner monitor everyone to make certain they are doing their job and helping each other do their jobs.

GM get talent that fits the HC scheme, set the 53 man roster.

HC coach the team work with the GM to identify what you need in concert with your staff.

The most important thing though do your job and just your job, no more texting, no more film break down, no more playing favorites with certain players and their poor behavior.

I don't hear the FO nor the staff nor the owner talking about these things but I sure as hell hope and pray they know where and when they went wrong and fix it.

IMO you can't homer those things away, or act like they didn't happen and it didn't matter, it all matters if it effect the team on the field and some of their action did and even the homer in me can't excuse it away. It's a problem that runs deeper then how poorly they handled the QB position lets just put it that way. These folks got a lot of work to do beyond just the talent on the field.

JMHO, but kill homer for a few minutes the dysfunctional will come to you when you do.

1. behind closed doors or in front of the press? I guarantee there would be two different answers. our QB situation is a mess. We have nothing of value on our DL We need an OLB a CB or two a RG a FB and a TE... did i mention our starting QB is in rehab?

if our own problems weren't enough.

Here is our schedule:

2 for each: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh,

Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, St. Louis, Seattle, NY Jets Oakland, Arizona, San Francisco, Tennessee.

At least we are not playing buffalo this year.

I believe the total sucktitude of Hoyer reached a point where the coaching staff was willing to try anything that could provide a spark. And so they did.....

I believe that Hoyers entire mechanics and effectiveness had deteriorated to the point that they were willing to do almost anything to try and find a spark to win games.

If after watching the five weeks since that Bengals win you did not see a complete breakdown in Hoyers play, mechanics and footwork, I can see your points. But that's what I saw.

I don't blame the coaching staff for trying anything possible at their disposal to try to turn things around with anything they could try.

Hoyer was done.

In addition, JF shook up the pressure pot when he came in on his only TD scoring drive and looked *ok*. I don't blame the staff for playing him. Hoyer was basically a "it can't get much worse than this" ordeal in my opinion.

Heck, I think if they could go back in time, maybe they'd have started Connor Shaw the entire season.

Fixed it for ya...

Whether or not someone else could of played better doesn't change that fact that the person that did play, did not play well..

[/quote]

I believe that Hoyers entire mechanics and effectiveness had deteriorated to the point that they were willing to do almost anything to try and find a spark to win games.
[/quote]
I just wonder what his QB COACH was doing during this time ? You know, that JF fan guy.

I believe that Hoyers entire mechanics and effectiveness had deteriorated to the point that they were willing to do almost anything to try and find a spark to win games.
[/quote]
I just wonder what his QB COACH was doing during this time ? You know, that JF fan guy. [/quote]

Many have asked that same question.. I assume one of the reasons he was let go