No one is gonna give up on a QB they traded up for in the first after 7 quarters of football, especially when the offense was completely inept and that was the reason he was inserted to begin with. Johnny will get his chance to beat out McCown and if he cant, he will ride the pines for a year and we begin our QB search again.
Mort saying the Browns are 90% done with Johnny, what the hell is that? Johnny gets his crap together and performs then everyone will love him. If he sucks and is back partying, we dump him, end of story.
I hope he makes it and I believe he has the talent to be an NFL QB. If I am wrong, it wont take long to know it. He will however get his shot to take the position. 90% I swear these asses cant write a decent article anymore without trying to serve up piped in drama. I am sure his source was Mary Kay's totally speculative article.
No one is gonna give up on a QB they traded up for in the first after 7 quarters of football, especially when the offense was completely inept and that was the reason he was inserted to begin with.
when using logic and common sense, its extremely easy to agree with you. even if it were only a matter of farmers own ego, and not wanting to show that he was so wrong on the manziel pick that he would give up after 7 quarters.
HOWEVER: it's pretty apparent that the browns were in fact attempting to acquire Sam Bradford, at the cost of a first round pick. to me, that says these guys are willing to put their ego aside, and do what they can (within reasonable cost), to find themselves someone who can play the position.
i hated the manziel pick, never thought he would pan out-- but once on the team i could only hope and support otherwise. Im glad we didnt land bradford, and to be honest i hope we dont draft a QB within the first round or two this draft. i'd like to see them give manziel, or mccown the chance to play. if both of these guys are as bad as a lot of us feel they are, we will be in a much better position to draft a potential franchise QB next draft-- as our record would have to be worse than this years.
that way, we know what we have in manziel good or bad, and we show potential free agents and draftees that we arent so rash so as to give up on a player after that little time. it may be ugly to spend 16 weeks confirming our suspicions, but i think its the best option.
The trouble is, it seems wasteful to give up after 2 starts when it's pretty clear JM was facing demons.
What if one of his "demons" is he realized he was out of his depth in the NFL? I'm not saying that is the case, but its possible he came to a point last year where, for the first time in his life, it dawned on him that he wasn't all-universe, or maybe even NFL-grade. My point is that just because Manziel went to rehab - which I applaud him for - it doesn't mean he can play in this league. Its kind of like the saying: "Injustice is relatively easy to bear; its Justice that hurts.".
Let me say this up front, I don't care who our QB is next year. As long as he produces, I'm good regardless of the name on the jersey.
Now that that's out of the way, If JM turns his personal life around and it positively impacts his playing career, great. I'm all for it and I hope it works. (not really seeing how it can but hey, if it works, wonderful)
If as I eluded to, he successfully fights the demons he brought on himself that's terrific.
Either way, I think the Browns need to address the QB spot and frankly, I don't see a solution out there right now.
That is unless they feel one of the lesser known guys in the draft may be the answer. If so, then I hope they get the guy they want.
Quote:
What if one of his "demons" is he realized he was out of his depth in the NFL?
it's very possible he realized that. Maybe that's what made him decide to get help to address the problem. Again, if he's successful, more power to him. Now, get to work.. Hope for our sake it works.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Putting a percentage on something like this is absurd.
Giving up a third round pick to move up and take Johnny Manziel at 22 was a poor decision.
It was a poor decision in many ways. Bridgewater was clearly a better prospect number one. Secondly, there was enough information available about Manziel to avoid taking him that early.
With that being said Johnny Manziel is on the team and under contract. He has played six quarters. He played those minutes carrying his personal baggage.
At this point I do not think there is a "Browns" agenda with Manziel. There is no agenda to start him or move on from him.
Manziel is on his own. What he does or does not do will be determined by him alone.
It is my sincerest hope that he comes back with every thing he's got. Fully ready to give his full commitment to become the very best player he can be.
However, the Browns approach has to be to expect nothing from him. They have to be ready to move on expecting the worst case scenario.
They should eye this draft for a quarterback that they believe can lead this team to the Super Bowl.
Maybe there is a franchise quarterback in this draft that they can get that will be able to do just that.
At the same time I am not ready to give up on Manziel. He has skills. No one can say with certainty that Manziel is a bust. He still has a chance to prove other wise. And he should and will be given that opportunity.
The first report that came out on the Browns and Bradford was the Browns offered a 2nd rounder for him while he was with the Rams, then the story began to grow. Suddenly we are begging Chip Kelly to give us Bradford and we are offering the 19 overall but we balked at giving up 12. If you are willing to give up a first for a QB, 19 or 12 whats the difference. All of those reports came from Lacanfora.
Now I do believe we did try to get Bradford and we offered a 2nd if we could get him extended. Talent wise and injury wise that makes sense. The rest doesnt make any sense at all. You arent gonna give up a first for a QB coming off back to back ACL surgeries. Casserly quoted Lacanfora. It was all nonsense. For some reason, i have a hard time believing we have a lot of dealings with Chip since he told Haslam he was ready to come to the Browns and used that to get more money with the eagles lol. also if anyone was to break a story about the browns trading for anyone, it will NEVER, EVER be jason Lacanfora. I have better sources than he does when it comes to the Browns.
I think Mortenson's quotes are actually very hypocritical. On one hand, he says Manziel is pretty much done here in Cleveland but goes on to say he has a chance if he comes out of rehab alright.
I would say the chance is the aforementioned 10%.
Manziel is going to go down as one of the most spectacularly failed first round bust QB's in modern NFL history.
If the 90% done comment isn't true, or we are even 'half-in' on him, we need to clean house.
The 90/10 ratio is irrelevant IMO and a way for Mort to craft an out if Manziel ends up staying. Might as well just said 99% sure based on the tone of the article. The entire tone leads to Manziel looking to be dropped if the team has a better option but yet says he'll stay if he gets his act together.
That part seems hypocritical to me. And like I said, I think Manziel on the outs has been in the works for awhile now anyway.
Would the organization market the Jersey of a recovering alcoholic to young fans? Will future treatment interfere with team activities. Is he worth a marketing risk?
Manziel is going to go down as one of the most spectacularly failed first round bust QB's in modern NFL history.
Nobody will garnish that accolade taken at #22 of the draft.
Possibly in media attention and popularity flops I can agree with that...of course one thing.
He can still succeed!
I agree with that.
And Tim Tebow can still succeed, too.
Seriously at #22? Lets not forget about Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell! By your logic, Quinn and Weeden were just as big of bust, so how can you say of all time? lol
No questions about it,, Manziel was a bad choice that could have been avoided and should have been avoided.
I'd have rather had Bridgewater or Carr. Either one was a more conventional choice and we had a chance to get either. And didn't.
Dumb move Looking back.
I'm guessing we wanted to make a splash. The trouble is, I think the sound we made was thud....lol
This is based on what 7 quarters of football?? lol.
Bridgewater or Carr, well if I remember the reports on Teddy were he was the most ready QB, but doesnt have a high ceiling. I dont think hes going to be a superstar, i think he is a decent qb, but nothing to write home about.
Carr- eh, he looked ok, but nothing great. I dont see how you can say coming out of college he was a top tier QB either.
Actually, neither one of them were a more conventional choice, as NOT 1 SCOUT or MOCK had either of them better than manziel or going higher in the draft.
Again, with your thought process, P. Manning would have been cut on the first day of his career.
Whatever becomes of Manziel is solely in his court. People make decisions in life. You make the bed you lie in.
The only thing I look for in players is production. We don't know them. Some are role models. Some are not. I just want to win.
The whole saga of Johnny Manziel could have easily been avoided. He never should have been selected by the Browns in the first round. Period.
That error lies directly at the feet of Farmer and or Haslam.
Pettine was not in that decision. Neither was Shanahan who wanted Garopollo.
Football is a business like any other business. Employees are hired. Some turn out good others average, and some fail for a variety of reasons.
Manziel and his problems are for him and the people that are close to him to get corrected.
I wish him well.
However, as a fan of the Browns all I really care about is can he lead a team and win games?
At this point he can't help the team.
Good point!
Johnny Football made Johnny Football. It's not the freakin fans fault that he couldn't take the heat of being in the NFL and the media spotlight. The ja was out doing commercials when he hadn't even thrown a pass in the league. JF had the Browns and some of the fans believing in the hype. He is now finding out that he can't take the pressure and as a fan it's not my problem to worry about is off the field issues. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. It's like any us that accept a job that we are way under qualified for. What happens? Your butt gets canned! And that's exactly what the Browns should do to him. Move on and forget about this huge mistake.
You can say the same exact thing about Brian Hoyer. . . . . . .
No questions about it,, Manziel was a bad choice that could have been avoided and should have been avoided.
I'd have rather had Bridgewater or Carr. Either one was a more conventional choice and we had a chance to get either. And didn't.
Dumb move Looking back.
I'm guessing we wanted to make a splash. The trouble is, I think the sound we made was thud....lol
This is based on what 7 quarters of football?? lol.
Bridgewater or Carr, well if I remember the reports on Teddy were he was the most ready QB, but doesnt have a high ceiling. I dont think hes going to be a superstar, i think he is a decent qb, but nothing to write home about.
Carr- eh, he looked ok, but nothing great. I dont see how you can say coming out of college he was a top tier QB either.
Actually, neither one of them were a more conventional choice, as NOT 1 SCOUT or MOCK had either of them better than manziel or going higher in the draft.
Again, with your thought process, P. Manning would have been cut on the first day of his career.
No, not on JUST 7 quarters of Football..
He couldn't beat out Hoyer at career back up
He had/has maturity problems
He had/has a "ME" first attitude
He's Priviliged or at least thinks so
And of course, then there is his performance on the field. Both Pre Season and in season.
As of right now, I wish we'd have picked Carr or Bridgewater. I felt the same way when we drafted JM. Nothing has happened to change my thinking.
But to be honest, I want to be proven wrong. if I am, that means the Browns have a real live QB and that's a great thing..
Please don't try to put words in my mouth...
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/02/1503:07 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
No questions about it,, Manziel was a bad choice that could have been avoided and should have been avoided.
I'd have rather had Bridgewater or Carr. Either one was a more conventional choice and we had a chance to get either. And didn't.
Dumb move Looking back.
I'm guessing we wanted to make a splash. The trouble is, I think the sound we made was thud....lol
This is based on what 7 quarters of football?? lol.
Bridgewater or Carr, well if I remember the reports on Teddy were he was the most ready QB, but doesnt have a high ceiling. I dont think hes going to be a superstar, i think he is a decent qb, but nothing to write home about.
Carr- eh, he looked ok, but nothing great. I dont see how you can say coming out of college he was a top tier QB either.
Actually, neither one of them were a more conventional choice, as NOT 1 SCOUT or MOCK had either of them better than manziel or going higher in the draft.
Again, with your thought process, P. Manning would have been cut on the first day of his career.
No, not on JUST 7 quarters of Football..
He couldn't beat out Hoyer at career back up
He had/has maturity problems
He had/has a "ME" first attitude
He's Priviliged or at least thinks so
And of course, then there is his performance on the field. Both Pre Season and in season.
As of right now, I wish we'd have picked Carr or Bridgewater. I felt the same way when we drafted JM. Nothing has happened to change my thinking.
But to be honest, I want to be proven wrong. if I am, that means the Browns have a real live QB and that's a great thing..
Please don't try to put words in my mouth...
Joe Namath was a bum too cause he partied off the field. The only thing that matters is if you are prepared to play. When manziel was in the game, he was not prepared. that showed, but to say he was a waste and not going to be prepared this season please tell me how you know that Miss Cleo? So FAR he has only shown that he is TRYING to better himself and his career. Checking himself into Regab shows me that he is putting an effort in. We will know more at camp, and at pre-season. However I dont get how your OPINION based on nothing that has happened except in the past can be a sound one.
And you just said dont put words in my mouth, however you said "i hope I am wrong" yet you specifically said "NO questions about it, Manziel was a bad choice". Those were your words. So you say one thing is a fact then say you hope you are wrong, well if its fact you cant be wrong. lol
Your entitled to your OPINION, but to state something as FACT when it clearly is not is WRONG.
If manziel comes out this year and stinks it up again, then yes, it is fact. However, you are not a fortune teller and can predict if he will be a good qb or not.
And you just said dont put words in my mouth, however you said "i hope I am wrong" yet you specifically said "NO questions about it, Manziel was a bad choice". Those were your words. So you say one thing is a fact then say you hope you are wrong, well if its fact you cant be wrong. lol
Your entitled to your OPINION, but to state something as FACT when it clearly is not is WRONG.
If manziel comes out this year and stinks it up again, then yes, it is fact. However, you are not a fortune teller and can predict if he will be a good qb or not.
Hey, dude if you wanna fight over nothing, go find Vers and argue with him..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Poor only if he busts...good if he becomes THE GUY...3rd rounder is not a great value that will kill the franchise...the First round pick is the one that hurts if he busts. Still in the "IF" bracket...when the fat lady sings - time to crown him.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Actually, neither one of them were a more conventional choice, as NOT 1 SCOUT or MOCK had either of them better than manziel or going higher in the draft.
Completely false.
Quote:
Again, with your thought process, P. Manning would have been cut on the first day of his career.
If Peyton Manning lacked NFL size and skills, couldn't read a defense, looked like a fan who won a contest on the field, sounded like a moron every time he opened his mouth, and wound up in rehab, it's entirely possible the Colts would have parted ways with him after 7 quarters of football.
Safeguarding sensitive personal and medical information is of critical importance for people who undergo drug rehabilitation or alcohol treatment, as many people with substance abuse problems go through rehab with the intention of returning to the places they work and live. HIPAA provides for stiff penalties for violation of the Privacy Rule, most notably fines of up to $1,500,000 and for criminal breaches as much as ten years in prison. (2)
As a drug rehab patient you have a right to privacy and to be treated using approved, evidence based practices. Because addiction is an intense disease to recover from, the last thing a rehab patient should be concerned with is the protection of their personal information. HIPAA automatically provides this protection and serious deterrents for those who would violate it. The Browns must be careful when they cut him. http://www.recoveryfirst.org/hipaa-and-your-rights-as-a-drug-rehab-patient.html/
All the angst over JFF can be boiled out with this:
If Hoyer would have gotten about (4) more well-timed first downs JFF would have never even seen the field in a meaningful game. We would have won 1-2 more games and JFF would still be on the bench today.
Bottom line: No one has any idea whether JFF will be a viable NFL starter...it wasn't known a year ago today and it is not known today.
he couldnt beat out an incumbent starter, who had a lot of fan following for his role in some nice wins the season prior. manziel was a rookie, and inserting a rookie QB who did not come from a pro system, day 1, is not necessarily common practice nor good practice.
i did not want manziel in the draft, and my support for him stems only from the fact that hes here now, as a brown, and thats what were stuck with.
i dont think we saw a large enough sample size to crown him a bust just yet. im hoping he has in fact matured, and i think checking himself in to rehab for 2 full months shows him taking responsibility and working hard to improve himself as a person, so that he will be able to improve himself as a player.
some people use his going to rehab as if it werent under his own control. i'd rather have a guy who checked himself in to rehab, than a guy who refused to admit he had a problem. i'd have felt much better about josh gordon had he checked himself in to rehab.
Would it be an offseason without national media members weighing in on the Browns' futility?
ESPN's Chris Mortensen became the latest expert to express his views on Johnny Manziel, Ray Farmer, and Textgate in a guest appearance on ESPN's Mike & Mike radio show on Tuesday.
Mortensen took a fairly pessimistic stance on the current state of affairs in Berea. According to the ESPN reporter, the Browns have largely moved on from Manziel, Farmer's reputation is damaged, and the first four weeks of the season could be treacherous without a general manager at the helm.
Several other prominent members of the media (looking at you, JLC) have dished out criticism of the Browns in the past year, but Mortensen's words carry considerable weight.
Mortensen began the Browns segment by talking about the club's commitment to Manziel:
"I think about 90 percent that they have moved on [from Manziel] in their own minds except that they really don't know who they're going to get when Johnny leaves rehab, which has been an extended stay — a two-month stay. He should be getting out sometime in the first week of April if they're satisfied that he's ready to go out and get into society and that whatever deep-rooted problems that he had has been addressed. OK, now he's part of your depth chart. You have Josh McCown."
The ESPN NFL Insider then delved into the Browns' fascination with Eagles quarterback Sam Bradford.
"Yes, the Browns were the team, with the second first round pick, 19th pick, that talked to the Rams about that pick in trying to acquire Sam Bradford. But there was no quarterback they could send to St. Louis in return. Nick Foles was the obvious one and Bradford is somebody that the Eagles and [head coach] Chip Kelly have Mark Sanchez as a placeholder until Sam Bradford is healthy, and so I don't think Bradford is going to be available. They would like him to sign an extension, something he wouldn't have done had he gone to Cleveland. So I don't see why Cleveland could sit there and give up a first-round draft pick for somebody who's not inclined to sign an extension. All of these things are in discussion. If we were sitting around the living room, we'd be kicking all this stuff around."
Mortensen ended his view on the Browns' quarterback situation with this interesting nugget of information:
"The bottom line is that Johnny Manziel's future with the Browns has been in question. When they were putting together half of a new offensive staff, Manziel's name barely even came up in conversation."
If Mortensen's reporting is correct, this is a telling piece of intel. If the Browns have written off Manziel as a quarterback, how far will they go to acquire one in the upcoming NFL Draft?
Speaking of the draft, Mortensen explained the NFL's decision not to take away picks from the Browns for Textgate.
Some NFL teams are reportedly frustrated that the Browns didn't receive a stiffer punishment. However, in Mortensen's eyes, the punishment was just right.
"I don't think it was lighter. [With] Ray Farmer's reputation, forever, when people look up Ray Farmer, they're going to see that he was suspended for four games ... People will say 'It's during the time when they don't do much.' In September, well, we don't know who their starting quarterback will be, what if they lose their staring quarterback? What if they lose their left tackle, Joe Thomas? What if you lose a couple of other players? You always have something that comes up that involves the general manager. Now, they're fortunate that Bill Kuharich and Ron Hill both have been in that seat before, that they can work through that. But, to me, Ray Farmer loses a month's pay, he has his reputation stained, probably forever. His text messages that went to a coach or two in the booth were deemed not to be a competitive matter, kind of like you would say, 'Why aren't we throwing deep?' Shouldn't we be playing #2?' ... I don't think it merited anything greater than this."
Mortensen brings up a valid point. An NFL general manager is less active in September, but Farmer might miss out on critical decisions during his suspensions. Also, Farmer's reputation is forever damaged. However, Farmer's image can certainly be repaired if the Browns win under his watch.
As a whole, Mortensen's words are a bit sobering. Manziel's opportunity might have already passed him by, and Farmer's transgressions might cost the team more than just $250,000.
What will the future bring for these troubled men? Only time will tell, but the upcoming NFL Draft will certainly lend some clues.
The full audio from Mortensen's guest appearance is available here. H/T to DBN commenter Bizono for the story idea and to Randy Miller of NJ.com for the transcript of a portion of the interview.
Imagine you are a fan of a team that isn't the Browns, and another fan suggested we go out and get him. Who here would honestly agree with that notion?
Does anyone else see a tank for Cardale type season in our future? I know we know saw three games of play, but those games were against the best in the country.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
With the 4-1-15 discharge date botched and Johnny's subsequent desperate girlfriend breakup ploy, Mort got a few tips to make his story, sending a message before Johnny's eventual sit down with JH/dad.
Does anyone else see a tank for Cardale type season in our future? I know we know saw three games of play, but those games were against the best in the country.
Tanking for a player, when nobody knows if that players is good or not, would be the most Browns thing ever.
vultures circling. How pathetic ones life must be to take pleasure in another humans struggles, especially a young man trying to resolve the demons in his life. Johnny is young and stupid but has chosen to lock himself away for 2 months to get his life in order. This is a wonderful thing for him and the Browns.
I am betting on the kid to succeed. I think the new system will be good for him. I think the team is ready for him. Its up to Johnny now to be the player he was drafted to be.
Mourg-------I am responding to you, but much of my narrative is not directed towards you.
I think it is a good thing that he checked himself into rehab. That takes guts, especially for a person who a huge public figure. I won't make fun of him for that.
I have two issues w/the Manziel situation:
---Our FO should have done a better job of evaluating him prior to the draft. We passed on Teddy for JM. It was a huge mistake.
---I think we might be in the same position of not having our QB again next year. Let's face it, having faith in JM staying clean, learning the offense, and looking like a professional QB is a stretch at this point.
I will conclude that this is a tough sell on the general public. Not the homers on this board who ignore facts, but the people who fill the seats in Cleveland. They raised ticket prices by as much as 40%. They drafted two first-round stiffs last year. They still don't have a proven QB on the roster and chances are that they won't again after next season plays out.
I understand that it's very popular on this board to demean anyone who questions what the Browns are doing, but man, it ain't a pretty picture and all the name calling and insults aren't going to change my mind about that.
