Cleveland Browns Rumors: Johnny Manziel Not Planning To Play In 2015, Browns Looking For New Quarterback


Posted: March 13, 2015

The Cleveland Browns are facing some difficult rumors after sources close to Johnny Manziel say the troubled quarterback is ready to sit out the 2015 season.

After a successful college career at Texas A&M and high hopes for his NFL career, Manziel had a difficult first season in Cleveland. He struggled to see the field, and in his brief stint as a starter looked out of place. There were rumors from the Browns locker room that Manziel was too focused on partying and living the life of a celebrity and not focused enough on learning the play book.

This offseason Manziel announced that he would be going to rehab, and the team stood behind the decision.

“I applaud him for raising his hand and saying ‘I need help,'” said owner Jimmy Haslam. “We’re going to do everything we can to support him. Our primary interest is making sure that he gets well, if you will. Fixes himself.”

But at the same time, the Cleveland Browns appeared to be looking for a new quarterback. The team hired new quarterback coach Kevin O’Connell, one who happened to be working with top quarterback prospect Marcus Mariota.

Many league sources said they believed it was an attempt to circumvent strict no-contact rules with college players, but the Browns denied that was the case.

“I can see why they would say that. Let me say this. We didn’t hire Kevin because he’s training Marcus,” Haslam said. “We didn’t hire him because he trained Johnny last year. We hired him because — and I’ve never met Kevin, let me say this — but our people, particularly [coach Mike Pettine], think he’s a very, very smart, competent offensive/quarterback coach. So I think it’s important to understand that’s why we hired him. OK?”

Now it appears there may have been truth to the rumors of a new quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. On his ESPN radio show, Tony Rizzo noted that sources inside the organization claimed Johnny Manziel would miss the entire season.

“I have to bring this up, I feel obligated to, and I’m not gonna reveal sources, but I have from good sources of mine, people that I’ve trusted in the past who’ve been right, not wrong, they say Johnny will not play at all this year,” Rizzo said.





If the rumors are true, then the Cleveland Browns could likely try to move up in the NFL Draft in May, finding a quarterback who can replace Johnny Manziel.

link

I am not surprised, but it would be disappointing if true.

One thing I don't understand, though. Why do they keep talking about this connection between O'Connell and Mariota?

I understand that he worked w/him this year, but the first thing I thought of when they hired the O'Connell is that he worked w/Manziel the year before.

Doesn't the latter connection make more sense?

I was listening to the radio when I heard this come out of Rizzo's mouth...


On his ESPN radio show, Tony Rizzo noted that sources inside the organization claimed Johnny Manziel would miss the entire season.

“I have to bring this up, I feel obligated to, and I’m not gonna reveal sources, but I have from good sources of mine, people that I’ve trusted in the past who’ve been right, not wrong, they say Johnny will not play at all this year,” Rizzo said.

Now, I'm not sure how to take this information, but if it is true, I can't imagine a situation where Manziel's ability to play would stopped by his rehab.

At some point, Manziel will become an outpatient and he should be free to play football "if he wants to"...

Could it be that Manziel is burned out on football and rather than risk his health, he is going to walk away for a while?

(haslam) " We hired him because — and I’ve never met Kevin, let me say this — but our people,..."

Is that normal for an owner to not even meet with a prospective coach prior, or even after, making a hire? I don't know - I'm asking. (or is it a "hey, look at me, letting others make decisions without me interfering" kind of thing? Or is it an early "distancing" of himself from the hire?)

yes, it does.

The rest of it is simply media trying to fabricate a story for their own purposes. Conspiracy theories are always a lot more fun than boring ol' "just the facts"....

Im also curious about what other quarterbacks O'Connell has worked with. I'd think it's more than 2.

If this is true, that Manziel will not play in 2015, I'm guessing the Browns didn't find out about this possibility until after they signed McCown, on Feb. 27.

The recent signing of Thad Lewis, 2 days ago, may have been the point at which the Browns realized that they needed to add a QB because Manziel might not be available.

Burned out after 2 years of college ball and 2 games in the NFL? What the hell happened other than setting a new low for our QB picks at #22? He's that far gone in the head? Wow, just WOW!

You guys still have faith in this LOSER? I would wash my hands of him. Yes it's great he's seeking help but do it on your own dime.

I was hoping we wouldn't have to trade up to the #2 spot for Marcus but it seems inevitable now to me.

With this organization, even "just the facts" can be a conspiracy all on their own. I mean, we actually have "text gate". This particular rumor may or may not be true about JF but the possibility factor jumps exponentially just because it's the Browns.

clem...what are the Browns fans supposed to do, ignor the information that came straight from a local ESPN source, like Rizzo?

When he said it, I said ut-oh...

...but I refuse to ignore the information and pretend he didn't say it.

If there is no truth to this information, it's all on ESPN, Rizzo and his sources.

If Manziel doesn't play (and I have my doubts about that) then we will move on. Personally, I could care less if we totally tank a season if it got us an Andrew Luck.

This does not surprise me. I truly feel whoever forced the Manziel drafting needs to be held accountable in a SERIOUS way. They did not do their homework and now they have an F!!!!

So much for wrecking the league. What a laugher!!

We are all suckers for a good joke.

this sounds like such horse crap. Its just like the stuff with Johnny has left rehab. Umm its not prison once they start getting their confidence back they leave for a day or two and come back to finish their course of treatment.

these are the same people that were saying Johnny wont be ready for training camp. He is gonna be put on IR and miss the entire season after the first week he was in there.

I would be absolutely shocked if he isnt out there for mini camp next month. Part of what he is learning is how to deal with the stresses of life and hiding from them isnt learning to deal with them.

Every person is different but the competitive nature is what drives athletes, their issue is when they arent competing. Its not football that is the problem for Johnny, it is dealing with life outside the huddle.

I hope he takes all the time he needs but there is nothing and I do mean nothing to this story. This is throwing stuff at the wall and hoping somethign sticks.

Johnny will likely stay in outpatient treatment long after he leaves the facility (likely for years) but he will leave and get back to the real world.

dayt...you don't have a clue..

Manziel probably started playing organized football in Jr High and reading a bit of background on him, he may have started drinking at about the same time.

Now, I'm not a Manziel cheerleader but then again, he is member of the Browns and I'm not about to call him a loser just because he's facing some very difficult issues in his life and he might not be available to play this upcoming season.

Manziel is anything but a loser for "manning up" and admitting he needs some help.

Like I said, you obviously don't have a clue!

This has to be something beyond alcohol like the rumors are saying. Then again, I never been addicted to it or anything for that matter, nor have been to rehab so who am I to say?

What I "can" say though is wow, what a total waste. How come all the other teams were smart enough to let the red flags give them evidence to pass except us? Basically a total disappointment who is edge away from being called a bust, even have only played a game and what, a 1/4 of another? JOKE.

With Teddy, we wouldn't have had to sign Thad. We wouldn't have to worry so much about McCown starting. We would just plain ole' fashion be in a much better position than we are now with whom we took.

At this point from the perspective of the Browns their approach has to be: we are not counting on Manziel.

Whatever direction his career takes they can not make plans for him as the leader of the team.

If he puts things together and is able to contribute then that is gravy.

As it stands today they have to assume the worst case scenario.

Mourg...none of us, not even you, can say that "football is not the problem" or part of the problem,that Manziel is facing.

LB...when the Browns make mistakes...they seem to make whoppers...mistakes that are far reaching and mistakes that impact the franchise for years.

Agreed and unfortunately, they have made many mistakes.

bone...I agree with one possible exception..it is very likely that the Browns have much better information than ESPN and Rizzo have.

Rizzo and his sources might be up to the ears with crap, concerning the accuracy of this report...time will tell.

If Manziel walks away for a while, he might as well walk away.

J/C

I wonder if these are the same sources which told Rizzo that Kosar would be a obtaining some sort of player personnel role which never materialized...

I have no personal experience but I doubt the owner meets with all of the assistant coaches prior to hiring. I would guess that the owner is primarily concerned with the HC and probably the OC and DC.. beyond that he probably lets the staff handle it.

I dont think Johnny is the only one with issues. I see a large part of this fan base that gets all giddy at the thought of Johnny failing not just in football but in life. Frankly I think a lot of you guys are nothing but a bunch of vultures that cant wait to pick at Johnny's corpse if he fails.

I have always admired the way Browns fans have stood behind their players good or bad. Frankly i am pretty disgusted by the lot of you.

His daddy phoned JH and said to get his son some help.

This is exactly what Mourg' was referring to above...

Johnny Manziel did not select the Browns.

Whatever becomes of Manziel is solely in his court. People make decisions in life. You make the bed you lie in.

The only thing I look for in players is production. We don't know them. Some are role models. Some are not. I just want to win.

The whole saga of Johnny Manziel could have easily been avoided. He never should have been selected by the Browns in the first round. Period.

That error lies directly at the feet of Farmer and or Haslam.

Pettine was not in that decision. Neither was Shanahan who wanted Garopollo.

Football is a business like any other business. Employees are hired. Some turn out good others average, and some fail for a variety of reasons.

Manziel and his problems are for him and the people that are close to him to get corrected.

I wish him well.

However, as a fan of the Browns all I really care about is can he lead a team and win games?

At this point he can't help the team.

@Tulsa: don'tcha just hate it?





@mac:
Maybe not ignore- but certainly take with a grain of salt until there's real confirmation.

Guys- my only comment was in response to Vers saying that the Manziel connection seemed more plausible than the Mariota one, especially since the coach was working with several QB's recently.

At this point both are speculation, so why not at least lean toward the one that seems less sinister?

As Freud once said: "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar-"

Are you sure that wasn't Monica Lewinsky that said that?

So how many arms do we need for OTA's and camp? I liked Lewis alright. Sounds like we may have stacked the deck in one last ditch to get JF playable but the house of cards fell apart. Like after he was in rehab maybe.

Maybe we need to jump up in the draft if this is all the FA we may see.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this concept; Haslam is paying Johnny to play QB but he must do his daddy's job and get him some help for his issues first?

Ummm, Johnny good luck, our contract is terminated. Wow, employers have become babysitters.

J/C
The good news is that all those who said build the team first and then add the quarterback should be happy.

Good point!

Johnny Football made Johnny Football. It's not the freakin fans fault that he couldn't take the heat of being in the NFL and the media spotlight. The ja was out doing commercials when he hadn't even thrown a pass in the league. JF had the Browns and some of the fans believing in the hype. He is now finding out that he can't take the pressure and as a fan it's not my problem to worry about is off the field issues. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. It's like any us that accept a job that we are way under qualified for. What happens? Your butt gets canned! And that's exactly what the Browns should do to him. Move on and forget about this huge mistake.

Brady Quinn was doing Subway and JFF was doing Snickers.

I believe every QB we draft should have a clause in their contract that says they have to produce one winning season before they can do commercials. So far, doing otherwise has been a bad omen.

Hoping for the best for him. 6 weeks in a facility, which wasn't in Hawaii or any other resort locale.... Makes me believe the thing is real. We all saw the picture with the rolled up dollar bill.

Probably a good thing that he struggled, because if he didn't, would anybody care? Nobody seems to care that Gronk parties just as much right? It's my belief that the team probably had some say in it.

Football needs to become his vice. He has to become obsessed with getting better. Obsessed with winning. Otherwise, I don't think he's gonna last much longer in the league. I think if it doesn't work out in Cleveland, he may get Tebow'd. When I say that, I mean no team wanting to take him on because of the circus. People were trying to blame his faith, but I think it was just all the extra media/attention that comes with. You can say the same for Manziel. It's just the way it goes. I really think he's gotta figure things out quickly. The clock is ticking on Ray Farmer, and once it expires on him, guy like Manziel and probably even Pettine (that sucks) are next.

It worries me that his girlfriend may be a bad influence on him. When you have the problems he has, there are certain people that need to be cut out of your life, and the word is that she parties pretty hard. I don't know that for a fact, but he needs to dump those types out of his life.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A report Friday indicating that Johnny Manziel is no longer in inpatient rehab is incorrect, a Browns spokesman told Northeast Ohio Media Group.

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group

The spokesman said Manziel is still receiving treatment and that the club is continuing to respect Manziel's privacy.

Furthermore, a league source told NEOMG that Manziel is not only still receiving treatment, but he's still in inpatient rehab and has not been discharged.

The report that sent social media abuzz came from ESPN and ESPNW's Sara Spain, who tweeted: "A source tells me Johnny Manziel left rehab this afternoon. Spent just over six weeks in the facility.''

That, coupled with an Instagram post from Manziel's girlfriend Colleen Crowley, shifted Manziel Mania into high gear. The post showed two empty seats on a private jet, along with two Chipotle entrees on the trays and a caption that included "Chipotbae," a term of endearment that traditionally stands for "before anyone else.''

The post was deleted after it began to go viral.

If Manziel is out of the treatment facility, it's likely only for a brief stint to help him acclimate to life outside of the safe and substance-free environment. After six weeks in treatment, he's likely reached the point where he's granted days off to spend time with family and friends. Manziel entered a rehab facility within driving distance from Cleveland on Jan. 28, and has been visited there by coach Mike Pettine.


Link

Who cares how it happened? All that matters is that it happened.

Yeah, guess we were the ones riding the pink swan, rolling the bill and being late for meetings. Yeah, we all need to be in rehab. :-) Let's make more excues for why the Browns always fail. Now all the fans need to be in Rehab. :-)

I don't know if you are joking or not.

Isn't going to rehab Manziel admitting he was in the wrong?

Referring to mourgrym's comment above.. Manziel is not the one with the issues, it is really the fans. No, I am not joking. And only if he is in rehab on his own accord is he addmitting wrongdoing. That remains to be seen. Meantime, Browns were screwed out of a first round pick.

It's not jail. He can leave if he didn't want to be there.

Why would Johnny be planning to sit out 2015? One of the big reasons he probably went to rehab was to get his head straight so he doesn't destroy his NFL career. Doesn't make any sense -- I don't believe the rumor.

j/c:

I would like to say that while I would not be surprised if JM misses the season or at least part of the season, I also think that too many people are drawing conclusions w/out any real proof being evident.

The guy is in rehab. There is no factual evidence that says he will miss the season. There is only rumors and speculation.

I think that too many are being overtly harsh on Manziel.

You are allowing your personal feelings to affect your decision making. Josh Gordon got a lot more slack from most of you than you are giving JM, and Gordon was actually proven to be guilty MULTIPLE times.

Don't forget the McDonalds commercial with newly drafted Charlie Fry and Braylon Edwards. "I'll have mine with Fry's."

"He's here all week, folks... try the veal."

Being screwed out of a 1st rd pick is our own fault. How a franchise can repeatedly miss on 1st rounders is beyond me. This is one of the things that has to change for us to improve. that and continuity.

I backed Gordon but this last suspension and the way he performed last season, see ya Gordon. Don't care anymore.

Gordon performed at a high level 2 seasons ago. From a business standpoint,he brought something to the table for the money he received.

Manziel has not EARNED a dime of his contract yet or respect from anybody in the NFL. It doesn't make sense to throw good money after bad and Johnny appears to me to be bad money.

I understand, but it is a rumor and has not been proven to be a fact, yet.

Before this "RUMOR" by Rizzo didn't Rizzo just announce another "RUMOR" the day before stating Manziel had pulled himself out of Rehab?

1. It doesn't make any sense - if it doesn't make sense its not true - Judge Judy.

2. Well its obvious cause we did sign McCown and Lewis lol

3. I think this is a guy who in the past week got more notoriety from the national media then in his entire career. Look for more Garbage.

jmho

I understand also. Like you not having faith in the FO to know QB's, I have zero faith in Johnny becoming an NFL QB. I don't see a return on this 1st round investment and to here the rumor he may sit out was it for me.

If I was Farmer, I would thank Johnny for making my decision easy.

Don't misunderstand. I appreciate that you don't have faith in Manziel.

All I am saying is that we should not view the initial report as fact.

'Report that Johnny Manziel is out of rehab is incorrect, Browns say'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/03/report_by_espn_reporter_that_j.html

Rizzo got duped. He fell for this sarcastic tweet from an SI guy and didn't realize the joke. Basically, read the first line and put Grossi on a fact finding mission. It was like falling for an Onion article

Shocker.

but its on the internet, its gotta be true!! lol

just my 2 cents.

It is very possible Johnny was on a "weekend pass", that's part of treatment. It is also very likely that is was Johnny being referenced in the Chipoltbae Gate saga. Who is to say Colleen didn't take the pic and it upset Johnny. She deleted it, heck maybe even better he dumped her like the bad habit she is. Maybe at the bottom of her burrito bowl the words "Bye Felicia" were written on the tin pan. We just don't know. I would be curious to know if Colleen visited Johnny while in rehab. I have a feeling she is a thing of the past.

I also don't understand this sitting out a year story. That to me makes no sense. The Browns have basically set up the QB depth chart for him to succeed. BUT HE HAS TO WANT IT AND WORK FOR IT.

I think the only thing that Manziel is truly admitting is that he has a problem and he's addressing it

Did I miss something? Rizzo is claiming his sources told him they don't expect Manziel to plat next year.

Did he also say something about whether or not Manziel was still in rehab?

Rizzo doesn't really have any sources. He's not in the loop anymore. It's more of a he and Goldhammer schtick to say "here's what my sources are telling me." You know, making it seem like they have inside info.

Anyway, the tweet above was sent into him and he read the first line and saw it was from an SI guy and immediately went into (paraphrasing) "Hey Tony, I'm hearing reports that Manziel is out of rehab, do you know anything about that? Check into it for us Grossi and get back to us, but it appears Jonny may be out of rehab from what I'm seeing."

As far as Manziel not being ready for the season, Rizzo is just throwing that out there to stir up the callers and bring some entertainment/drama to the show.

I assume you've never thrown one either.. but if Life cereal offered you a lot of money to put on a Browns jersey and do a commercial, would you do it? I would.


I do. Just like I would feel sorry for you if you had an addiction problem or a break down, or whatever you want to call it... and I don't know you from Adam. I'm a human being and these guys are more than football players, they are also human beings.

It's kind of funny, we talk about these guys the way you talk about Manziel, like a commodity or an asset or a piece of property... then when one of them is actually good, we expect some level of loyalty from them.. but if they screw up or aren't as good as we had hoped, we are very quick to just toss them on the trash heap...

Rizzo is becoming more and more annoying. I put him on blast last week on Twitter when he was asking "what if Lebrons leaves" it was his Wednesday question or something. It caught him of guard and he even read it on air then tried saying its a hypothetical question. We all know Lebron is not leaving again. It would be a huge hit to his brand and himself. Rizzo just reaches for something to talk about. Hes old and he don't have it together upstairs anymore. Im sure tomorrow morning will be epic with him telling everyone that "Johnny up and left rehab" starting more rumors and fanning the fire.

To be fair, Manziel's personality and behavior do not make it easy for some people to feel a lot of empathy for him. He's brash and cocky, and if that is the way you are going to brand yourself, you better be able to back it up, or at least somewhat live up to the hype you've created. Otherwise, you are going to get more grief than the normal underperformer.

He made a conscious choice to make that his persona, and he is living with those consequences. I do feel for him. That must have been a very rude awakening for a guy like that, I hope he comes out of it all a better person. Whether he's ever going to be much of a quarterback remains to be seen. No matter what, the Browns made a horrible choice in drafting him. He was too risky both personally and skill wise.

He's just the kind of guy who is very hard to like for a lot of people. I think that's the main reason people react to him the way they do.

Is this really what happened? I listen every morning on my ride into work, which is about 30-35 minutes each morning. I heard the part where he said his sources are telling him Manziel isn't expected to play this year. But is he somehow linked to that tweet as well? Is that really the origin of his "source"?

In terms of annoying Cleveland radio guys, I put Rizzo pretty far down the list. The most annoying thing he does is eat on air and constantly smack his lips into the microphone. Makes me want to throw up.

In terms of talking sports, I find him fairly level headed. He patronizes a lot of people, like Tony Grossi for example. He knows Grossi is a negative Nancy so he will cater to him and string him along and even sometimes act like he's agreeing with him. I actually believe Grossi is dumb enough to not see what Rizzo is doing. But I get a kick out of it.

Nah, I think he's fairly level headed and far from losing it upstairs.

Goldhammer is your shock value guy. He loves to make a mountain out of a molehill. It's obvious when he's doing it on purpose too.

A really underrated guy is Emmett Golden. I think they thought Goldhammer was going to carry him, but it's the other way around. An overrated guy is Je'Rod Cherry. Rizzo has really minimized Je'Rod. Never lets him get a word in edgewise. But that's somewhat on him too.

Anyway, back to Rizzo...there are far worse...and no one does ads like him. LOL.

JOOEEEE BEEEEEEEEEESSSS

This doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. If Johnny had come out of rehab, busted his ass in camp, learned the new Raiders offense(ouch), and was primed and ready to go in September.... He most likely wouldn't have survived into October. I had his first injury over/under at 3 games. He is the smallest QB in the league. And he likes to run at the first sign of pressure. Hell, BEFORE the first sign of pressure. He thinks he's Fran Tarkenton. Well, the days of Farn Tarkenton are LONG over. If Johnny ever does get back under center he gets to face 240-270 pound linebackers that are as fast or faster than he is. And their only goal is to deal out some PAIN. Then jump up and make a money sign.... Get THEIR name in the paper and on Sportscenter. Be the player that destroyed Johnny Fricken Football. I knew we were in trouble with that pick when he walked across the stage and Roger Godell TOWERED over him. Made him look puny! The CORNERS in that class made him look small.

Of course, we all know that Russell Wilson isn't all that big either. But he isn't quite as small as Johnny. He uses his BRAIN before using his legs, and just because ONE guy gets away with it doesn't mean the league should run out and draft tiny little QB's. It may work elsewhere, but in CLEVELAND where every single year we go through three or four QB's due to injury.... drafting a little one seems like a bad idea. A disaster waiting to happen. And instead of putting on 15-20 pounds of muscle this offseason, he's in rehab.

So, if this story is true, our starting QB in September(for the moment) is McCown. A guy that's lost very close to twice as many games as he's won. Farmer better do something FAST. Hope and pray he's on the phone right now trying to make a trade for someone. ANYONE. Hell, I was not a fan of DA but right now I'd jump for joy if they traded for him. He looks like an All Star compared to any of the bums we have on the roster at the moment. Wonder if we could offer a third for Colt McCoy? Or Kirk Cousins?

I hope Farmer selects QB TWICE in the draft. In the hopes that ONE of them might be decent. We need to bring in as many QB's as the roster will hold and pray we can find a guy to get us through. If we happen to stumble upon a young QB with some upside that would be a bonus.

I'm not so sure this story is accurate. I find it difficult to believe that Johnny would just walk away from the game. But even if it isn't. Even if Johnny is ready to go in September? We are in deep trouble my friends. DEEP trouble. We don't have Shanahan's running game to elievate the lack of a QB this time around. We're probably running the Raiders offense. God help us.

Could be a very very long season..... Already

Tick Tock Tick Tock every year I get a little older and the dream of a Browns Super Bowl win before I kick gets a little farther away.

Peace

Just will comment on one thing. Good Pick
All depends, if he becomes a good QB it was a great Pick. If he becomes a bust or backup - it goes with a long line of disappearing picks that are made the 2nd half of the 1st round. Especially QBs.

Rehab, if it was his head that was holding him back I'm glad he is taking steps to correct that now. I'm thinking football, of course all human beings I will only wish well to them.

Agree 100% with your take on Rizzo and Goldhammer. If Goldhammer is on I can't listen to it. He has zero talent .... I'd rather listen to Skip Bayless and I pretty much despise Ball-lless too.

I don't mind listening to Grossi ... sure he's more negative than he needs to be but he doesn't thump his chest or even state he's right, he just throws stuff out there. His campaign against Farmer is tired already.

Rizzo and Goldhammer are the absolute worst on the radio. I'd rather listen to NPR w/ Tony Ganzer for my sports take each day. I don't understand anyone who likes Rizzo but hates Goldhammer. They're one in the same. If you listen to Goldhammer, you can see how much he copies Rizzo's sayings/mannerisms.

Plus Rizzo beats his wife....what a guy!

Correct. Also, Rizz says the same nonsense about Manziel not playing this year about every other week to drum up fan reaction. Usually, he tosses it out there just before he does show #24 on 'My sources are telling me it's going to take this year's firsts and next year's first to move up and get Mariota and Ray is strongly considering pulling the trigger, would you do it folks? Call 216-578-08** ESPN Cleveland WKNR. And folks, spring is right around the corner and if you're thinking of getting a new car you gotta get to Gillingham Ford, come say hi to Bob, Matt, Robby and all the fine Gillingham family. I'm driving the Ford Escape, Je'Rod's got the tricked out Explorer, but seriously folks, if you're thinking about a new car come on down and see the new Ford lineup it'll blow you away and their service department in the best in the country. Family owned and operated for over 50 years......I'll see you there.'

***I couldn't resist throwing a Rizz ad in my post.

Not to get completely off topic. I once got him to propose for me on air. Used fake names and completely made up the story, threw in Bookman and Son so he'd bite on it. They had the whole segment saved as a podcast.

Sorry Memphis, got to disagree with you on Rizzo and Goldhammer. I'm not saying Rizzo is great, but you can tell he's been doing radio for more than a minute. Actually sounds comfortable behind a mic. I believe Goldhammer has been on the air for years now and still talks like he read how to do it in a book. He over enunciates every other word, isn't smart enough to carry a show without trying to be scandalous, and doesn't sound comfortable at all. Before he left the RBS, when Rizzo was absent and he would try to carry the show himself, it was so brutally awkward I couldn't even listen.

One of the most annoying things when listening to radio is listening to guys who just aren't good at it. I imagine it requires a certain gift of gab that not many on radio actually possess. The two best IMO are Cowherd and Ken Carmen. Those guys were born to do radio. And they both essentially carry shows by themselves. That isn't a coincidence.

Milk, did Rizzo come out and say that was his source?

As with anything, I'll believe it when I see it. That being said, though, first and foremost, I hope Manziel gets the help he needs so he can be healthy. That's more important than football.

From a Browns fan standpoint, I'm still in that nice apathy stage, so, whatever.

Rish, you know the drill on RBS, no names please! But seriously, he did not directly attribute the SI guy as his 'source'. He wanted verification from Grossi.

How about Rizz's Linked-In bit today? Ugh.

By the way, I agree, Ken Carmen is the best.

Apologies if this was already posted, but if its true, it sounds like the Browns are not counting on Manziel.


Report: Browns offered first-rounder for Sam Bradford

by Shawn Krest | CBSSports.com
Sun, 15 Mar 2015

Eagles coach Chip Kelly and Rams coach Jeff Fisher both said that a team offered a first-round draft pick for quarterback Sam Bradford.

Bradford was traded from the Rams to the Eagles for quarterback Nick Foles last week.

Neither coach identified the mystery team, but in an appearance on the Michael Kay Show, former NFL GM Charley Casserly said it was the Browns.

"I'm looking at Cleveland," Casserly said. "The information I have is that they offered a one for Sam Bradford, ok, so clearly they're aggressive in trying to get a quarterback. They've got two one's. (They) can't be sold on what (they've) got. I think they'll be aggressive in the draft."

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasy...or-sam-bradford

I don't know if it is any indication we aren't counting on Manziel for this season or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did in fact make an offer.

That article makes sense but with SB injury history I think it would have been a big mistake if we got him. Well, at least we are trying.

LOL, what's funny is people don't realize you can get Bee Pollen at any Vitamin store for a fraction of what "Joe B" is charging. A FRACTION.

If Casserly's right, this should put to rest many of those posters theories that the FO isn't trying.

Succeeding is another story.

Now, had they landed Bradford, some would have talked about what a potential upgrade he would be over the current QB's while others would have instantly started howling about his injury history.

Unless they could pry Aaron Rogers from GB without giving up any picks, someone on DT will always find something to complain about.

Rogers is getting kind of old.

Brady, too-
Wilson is undersized-
...and Luck throws too many picks...

Glad both teams said no.

If true farmer is a dumbass. 2 will get you 1 his source is lacanfora lol

At this point anything the Browns get from Manziel is positive, I think you have to look at Manziel as questionable at best for 2015 and even if he does come back nobody knows what he's going to do on the field. The FO has to think of him someone that is competing for the QB position but at least at this point in his career is far from a starting QB in the league so I think all options are still open for them.

Big Oil buddies with partially shared legal teams talk to each other, and as long as season tickets are at a certain level, JH will comply.

Recovery outcomes that matter to the young man's personal life depend on his own will to seek help, not his father's connections. So that matters for him, despite what calloused, dismissive fans focus upon.

Your personal benefit, and the benefit to the team, from his ability to play no longer exists in the minds of many, since it likely is over for him professionally.

Thank God Chip Kelly is a nut.

92.3 The Fan make an interesting post, if Chip's moves don't work out, he can instantly go back to college and become likely the highest paid college coach. Made me wonder if he'll pull a Marrone or just be let go but leave the Eagle organization hurting with all the moves he is orchestrating. My close bud who roots for Philly considers "Chip Kelly" to be a curse word haha.

so on draft day we trade a first for Bradford so Kelly can move up and get mariotta?

In a painful thought - that is what I'm afraid of.

Unfortunately what I fear as well, however my fear goes a little deeper that it'll take more than a first, which IMO is already way too much for someone as brittle as Bradford has demonstrated over his career, to make the trade happen.

I think that ship has sailed for Kelly. Bradford is his QB.

Agreed. We are beyond dumb to have offered a 1st for SB if we did. I love Sam, and would have loved to have him, but the Eagles got shafted giving up what they did, and I honestly believe giving up a 1st is just as bad.

I say that not because Bradford isn't a good QB, but he's just never healthy. He was never healthy in college either.

On a side note I bet the Eagles take Hundley or Petty in the 2nd.

cfrs...I've got to believe that Kelly is trying to figure out how to move up in the draft to land Mariota.

Kelly would part with Bradford in second if that is what was needed to land Mariota.

Also, if the Browns were willing to give up a first round pick for Bradford before the Rams traded him to the Eagles...

...why wouldn't the Browns be willing to give up a first round pick to the Eagles if that is what it took to get Bradford?

I think we are willing. I don't think Kelly is. If Kelly wanted to get Mariota he would immediately trade Bradford for a first round pick right now. I guess he could waiting for draft day to see how things unfold, but I don't see how giving up assets to get Bradford makes it more likely that the Eagles will get Mariota.

Do we ever make a trade with Kelly after he stiffed us?

Wow,, Casserly said it was us. well that seals it

I don't get how holding grudges would ever benefit anyone in the NFL.

With news of that nature and how realistically I believe that Ray would've done/tried something like that, Jason LaCanfora could have said it and I would believe it.

Now, draft day is another story. It could all but come true... and yikes!

My thinking when I read Chip Kelly said no....

He might need to secure a trade up with Tennessee first. If the Titans agree to trade down for say the Eagles 1st & 2nd (and a pick or two next year) AND the Browns #19 overall pick, maybe Kelly DOES send us Bradford...

If Kelly had a guaranteed way to land Mariota, I'm willing to bet he would trade us Bradford.

In my opinion, he would be a major upgrade, when healthy, he's been really productive. A lot of people don't give him credit for that because the Rams had a BAD offensive line and a BAD cast of WR's for him the last few years....

this is my line of thinking also... uh oh

Perhaps the biggest obstacle in all of this is if the Titans want to draft Mariota. If they do, there is no trade they will take.

Again, I don't see how giving up assets makes the Eagles more likely to get Mariota.

absolutely correct about the Titans... they want Mariota... Kelly is outside looking in ( assuming he does want Mariota).

technically I agree, I would be more willing to give picks for Foles than Bradford, NOT A FIRST THOUGH... FOR EITHER !!!

I just wee that report about our offering a one and think is Kelly trying to snooker us?

I think Kelly made up the report to make his own trade look better.

ha !!

From what I read all he would have to do was tweet Grossi and it would be all over social media.

The Rams reported they were offered a low 1st for him as well, but wanted Foles. They both could be lying to sell what was an unpopular trade by portions of their respective fan bases, but going off what we know I imagine someone is stupid enough to do it.

Again, I wouldn't give a 1st for either, but would actually give more for Bradford because he can be a franchise guy if he ever gets healthy......no way Foles is anything more than average. If I was the Rams I would have screwed whomever offered that 1st and moved on.

This is the most plausible answer.

Instead of Bradford, wouldn't Foles have been a better player for the Titans to go after. I mean, Foles is younger and I think at this point, has a great upside give that Bradford can't stay healthy.

So why trade for Bradford only to use him as a piece of the bait to get a chance at Mariota?

As odd as it sounds, I think Kelly thinks that Bradford is his guy going forward.

jc.



1950 Vic Janowicz Ohio State RB
1951 Dick Kazmaier Princeton RB
1952 Billy Vessels Oklahoma RB
1953 John Lattner Notre Dame RB
1954 Alan Ameche Wisconsin RB
1955 Howard Cassady Ohio State RB
1956 Paul Hornung Notre Dame QB
1957 John David Crow Texas A$M RB
1958 Pete Dawkins Army RB
1959 Billy Cannon Louisiana State RB
1960 Joe Bellino Navy RB
1961 Ernie Davis Syracuse RB
1962 Terry Baker Oregon State QB
1963 Roger Staubach Navy QB
1964 John Huarte Notre Dame QB
1965 Mike Garrett USC RB
1966 Steve Spurrier Florida QB
1967 Gary Beban UCLA QB
1968 O.J. Simpson USC RB
1969 Steve Owens Oklahoma FB
1970 Jim Plunkett Stanford QB
1971 Pat Sullivan Auburn QB
1972 Johnny Rodgers Nebraska RB
1973 John Cappelletti Penn State RB
1974 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1975 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1976 Tony Dorsett Pittsburgh RB
1977 Earl Campbell Texas RB
1978 Billy Sims Oklahoma RB
1979 Charles White USC RB
1980 George Rogers South Carolina RB
1981 Marcus Allen USC RB
1982 Herschel Walker Georgia RB
1983 Mike Rozier Nebraska RB
1984 Doug Flutie Boston College QB
1985 Bo Jackson Auburn RB
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami (Fla.) QB
1987 Tim Brown Notre Dame WR
1988 Barry Sanders Oklahoma State RB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR
1992 Gino Torretta Miami (Fla.) QB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan CB
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2002 Carson Palmer USC QB
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB
2004 Matt Leinart USC QB
2006 Troy Smith Ohio State QB
2007 Tim Tebow Florida QB
2008 Sam Bradford Oklahoma QB
2009 Mark Ingram Alabama RB
2010 Cam Newton Auburn QB
2011 Robert Griffin III Baylor University QB
2012 Johnny Manziel Texas A&M QB
2013 Jameis Winston Florida State QB
2014 Marcus Mariota Oregon QB





Robert Griffin III is the only Heisman winner with a career passer rating over 90 in the NFL (90.8). Since 1950, the combined NFL winning percentage for quarterbacks who won the Heisman Trophy is under .500 (480-501-4, .489).

jc...

Report: Browns expect Johnny Manziel back for April workouts

Posted by Curtis Crabtree on March 24, 2015, 12:43 AM EDT
link

Johnny Manziel has spent over seven weeks in a rehab program for alcohol and substance abuse. However, the Cleveland Browns expect Manziel to be with the team for offseason workouts that are set to begin on April 20.

According to Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.com, Manziel is an anticipating his release from the program in early April.

Browns general manager Ray Farmer did say Monday that the final decision on Manziel’s release remains with the personnel handling his rehabilitation. Nevertheless, the team expects he’ll be released in time to rejoin the team.

“I don’t think it’s in doubt,” Farmer said. “Again, I’m not the point person in that. So I would defer to those kind of controlling his care and let them decide what that looks like.”

Manziel had a dismal rookie season with Cleveland last year. He started only two games and did not throw a touchdown. Both starts resulted in Cleveland losses, including a 30-0 defeat to the Cincinnati Bengals in Week 16.

Despite the addition of Josh McCown this offseason, the Browns quarterback position isn’t vastly different from the group that finished last season. It leaves the door open for Manziel to make another push for the team’s starting job if he can get his off-field issues in order.

Good to hear.

Good for him he likely will be available come 4-20 (no pun intended) workouts. Hopefully we see a new young man with new motives, initiatives and attitude.

One thing is for sure, I'm keeping my hope at a low level cause there's already been ample amounts of disappointment, but always open to being proved wrong!!!

It is good to hear. I wish Jm nothing but the best I hope he overcomes his problems and becomes a very good QB for us. I believe if he puts his head to it and works hard he will be just that.

Say it ain't so. Manziel will not be of help early on next season it appears to me. We may get plumb dumb crazy in draft maybe. Carry six maybe seven QBs next year?

Sorry. Just read Mac's above. So we assume "available" means "playable"? Not sure what limitations post-rehab might have on JFF.

but but according to inside sources Johnny was going to be placed on IR? how could this possibly happen with both La Canfora and Rizzo reported the same thing, I mean they pulled their information directly from a fans twitter account whose cousin's brother assured everyone that his neighbors maid had connections within the Browns, as her nephew delivered pizza to the coaches meetings on monday nights.

He will not miss anything browns related and no doubt when pettine visited him he took him a copy of Flip's playbook lol

Now let's just hope he is left alone (fat chance).

These boys pulled their information directly from a place where the sun doesn't shine, unless they are nudists ...

Been saying that about Rizzo and Grossi for years.

What, that they are emperors with no clothes?

I remember it as JF COULD be placed on IR.

PUP List most likely..

But I doubt it comes to that.

because of JFF the NFL will create a new list...


MUP- Mentally Unable to Perform

"There's a reason we drafted him where we did,'' Pettine said. "This is a guy that accounted for 90-plus touchdowns in college. When he's back with us and it's all about football, we're confident that between (offensive coordinator) John DeFilippo and (quarterbacks coach) Kevin (O'Connell) that they're going to do an outstanding job with not just him but all of our quarterbacks, holding them accountable, getting them prepared, getting the mechanical stuff right but at the same time not teaching them to be robotic and not allowing them to still take advantage of their own skill set. All of our quarterbacks are going to get coached hard and we're going to hopefully get everything out of them that we can."

link

I thought this was a direct shot over the bow of Shannahan. If you go back to my posts in preseason, I talked about how Manziel looked robotic and no longer looked like someone that was a natural thrower. That wasnt just a defense of Manziel by the coach that was a mega shot at Shannahan.

That's how I read that as well.

Farmer fired shots at Shanahan as well.

I didn't read any connection or implied reference to KS, Mourg'...

They've been taking shots at KS since he left.

With each shot fired, it's more and more telling that it just wasn't a good fit.

It's unfortuante because KS is a good OC. But he's also not irreplaceable.

Ks left he left. If he didn't want to be here fine. He like everyone else is replaceable. We may have gotten a very good OC with JD. Lord knows we as Browns fans should be used to this by now. Let's support the new coaches and see what they bring to the table.

It is becoming more and more obvious that Shanahan did not want to be here, and was not a good fit with this coaching staff. I think that it is also obvious that Pettine did not want him here. So, they divorced. It happens. Hopefully the staff as now constructed will work well together. I believe they will. I really like Flip a lot, and think that he is going to be an exceptional OC.

yup, it's that simple. We move on and so does he.

Here's to hoping Flip Wilson will be an excellent OC or QB coach, whichever he is...
The devil made me do it...

As I have said before Shanny was very me,me,me. while Pet is very we,we,we

...all the way home.

GM good to see you posting regular again Bro.

5) The definiton of "changing an entire offense" can vary. Farmer said the Browns changed everything for Manziel. Pettine, politely, disagreed. "I know the run game stayed the same and I know we had some things in all year that were more suited for a mobile quarterback," Pettine said. "So there was a shift in emphasis there, but I wouldn't categorize those changes as drastic."

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...=espnapi_public

isnt that something. first shanny said it was pretty much the same plays we ran all year and now pettine pretty much says the same. wonder if the poster who lost alot of respect for shanny when he said that now lost alot of respect for pettine?

All I can say is the look Manziel had was a spread offense pistol look for the most part.

Also I remember distinctly when Manziel got hurt and Hoyer came back in...right away our personnel changed - we went to a Double TE or an Unbalanced I formation - with a strong powerful Run game. It had a totally different flow to it...all seemed on page - Why cause Hoyer hands the ball off better? No cause they all been playing it since day one with Hoyer. Although some similar looking plays when we were in obvious passing situations but our Scheme was definitely different.

jmho btw I deleted all the games. So I cannot go back and be specific...but even in my What I saw I was like why did we go to a totally different Scheme/look that not only did Manziel look confused but we had OL going in wrong directions. RBs going in 2 different directions...just a total cluster muck.

yeah and how about the QB sweep shanny called on the lay manziel got hurt. wtf was THAT?

How much of that was because Johnny didn't know the playbook tab (honest question)? I tend to think they tried to hide his weaknesses and put him in situations he was comfortable with from college. However, as you alluded to, the rest of the team was uncomfortable and it showed.

Personally, I hope they develop an offense and Johnny can either learn or execute the offense or he can sit.......no more "dumbing down the playbook" or making him comfortable crap. Run the standard O or you don't play. It isn't like our was Saints like complicated, and no reason he couldn't learn the playbook by that time.

I like Johnny, and still haven't completely given up on him, but he needs to grow up. The rehab stuff was part of the problem, but from my outsiders eyes part of his problem was lack of work ethic and sense of entitlement. If those don't change then rehab doesn't help him with a large part of what hindered his development last year.

I would also draft a QB if we do draft one (either this year or the next) that fits the type of system Pettine/Flip want to run.....not cater the system to someone's strengths (aka Mariota).

That could not have possibly of happened Big. It was a scam purpitrated by Shanahan to undermine the Browns and make Manziel look like a idiot.

Well Pit, I'm glad you're finally on-board.

yea and shanny said there were only 2 plays that johnny ran that hoyer did not. and by the way. that isnt the play he got hurt on. the play he got hurt on no one touched johnny. who would have thought he was so fragile?

Lol....he did a pretty good job by himself with that one. I really hope he has grown up and ready to take his job seriously, because honest to goodness we have really no idea if he even has the ability to play the position.......his lack of maturity last year didn't allow him to learn the playbook for goodness sakes.

And that's how I look at it. None of us really have a clue about him as a QB. Hopefully the coaching staff has a clue whether more of what we saw can be attributed to immaturity or lack of ability.

Everyone except for Jimmy.

Everything you just said is completely wrong, he was knocked out on the quarterback sweep and took a crushing hit on the play. Stupidest play call I've ever seen in the NFL trying to use a 6' 200lb. qb like he's Marshawn Lynch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnJYHdAjgtw

Just think had he not played after the Buffalo game..

We'd probably be optimistic going into this season..

Id give him the playbook, and tape of every play from Russell Wilson in Seattle..

If he can't do that, run a run based scheme, with play action roll outs.. then I dont know what he can do..

Note: I am not comparing him to Wilson, I feel the need to point this out, to avoid an argument with someone assuming I am..

Manziel said he first hurt himself on a play from the previous drive, a third-and-1 slant route to Josh Gordon that was reviewed and overturned. Manziel fell on the throw and "felt a little tight in my hamstring" when he got up. The injury worsened after the first-down run on the next series.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/120612...rolina-panthers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6j2fIVJfp4


he was injured on the QB sweep. i doubt he injured his hammy on a previous play, but then was asked to run a QB sweep with an injured hammy...

unless i missed something? i was drinking a lot come that point in the season






EDIT - didnt know he said he felt tight in the hammy from a previous play. cant believe shanny would call a QB sweep like that (ever), but the fact that his hammy was already injured just makes it way worse.. idiotic

alot of talk on the board about that. shanny said johnny never told anyone about it at the time. and it was like 4 play before not one.

Whatever play he claims he got hurt on the sweep was the straw that broke the camels back.

I have my doubts about the truth surrounding the whole injury, it was all very odd.

well if thats the case, i wont hold it against shanny for trying to make an injured QB run a sweep.



but at the same time, i will say its an absolutely moronic playcall, that had no chance of ever working. and its not surprising he got injured further on such a play, you dont put your quarterback in such a position...

The worst part is it was out of the shotgun with an empty back field so there was no deception or lead blockers...oh but Cameron was there to set the left edge and completely wiffed as usual.

yea. imagine asking a QB that runs at the first sign of pressure and is known in collage to run to run a play that asks him to run. stupid huh?

ofcourse if he runs in for a td when there is a wide open person to throw it to and takes a big shot doing it its a great play? pfft....

so calling a QB sweep from an empty shotgun set was a good idea? is that what youre seriously trying to argue?

no. its one of the few plays he learned how to run lol

Pblack is correct in that manziel was hurt on the throw to gordon he fell down grabbing his hammy on that throw like a sniper got him.

Pblack criticizing a QB for scoring a td is just ignorant. I dont care if he sticks the ball up his butt and quacks like a duck and he crosses the goal line it was a good play if he scored a TD. This is the same nonsense that was in preseason when you guys criticized him for running for a first instead of throwing it to the FB when he just dropped an identical play to Hoyer on the previous series.

Who is Munzeel, and what in the hell is a humstring

They use those to hold hummers together.

Browns may make a move for Mariota, or try again for Bradford

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 31, 2015, 8:26 AM EDT


link

In yet another sign that those around the Browns do not see Johnny Manziel as the franchise quarterback, a recent report out of Cleveland suggests that the Browns may try to move up in the draft for Marcus Mariota, or try again to acquire Sam Bradford.

Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com writes that the Browns are fully prepared to start Josh McCown this year, but they’re also not done trying to get better at the quarterback position. In fact, Cabot thinks the Browns will try to trade up in the draft for Mariota, and may also make another run at Bradford.

The Browns offered the Rams a first-round draft pick for Bradford and the Rams declined, deciding instead to take the Eagles’ offer of Nick Foles. But the Browns could see if the Eagles would trade Bradford. There’s been talk that what Chip Kelly really wants is to move up and draft Mariota, his old Oregon quarterback. If the Browns, who own two first-round picks, could help give Kelly the ammunition to move up and get his guy, Kelly might be willing to part with Bradford.

But if the Browns have the ammunition to move up for Mariota, they might just do that themselves. Bradford comes with an expensive 2015 salary and becomes a free agent next year. If the Browns can get Mariota, they’ve got their franchise quarterback for years to come.

Of course, that’s what they thought last year when they drafted Manziel. Instead, Cabot writes that the Browns are down on him and may not even be able to get much for Manziel in a trade. Cabot speculates that maybe Jerry Jones is interested in Manziel.

Or maybe Chip Kelly is interested in Manziel.

Because clearly the plan has been to settle on Manziel all along.

Mary Kaye left out the possibility that everyone in interested in Manziel,no one is interested in Manziel,or that some of the people are interested in Manziel,but only some of the time.

Good thing Shanny won't be back.

Next year, all of our play calls will be perfect and we will score TDs on every play.

Bradford has already said he didn't want to come to Cleveland because they are a mess and that he would not sign a new contract w/the team.

And let's hope the Browns aren't stupid enough to trade-up for Mariota.

Where is MKC getting her information?

Changed for the sake of accuracy...

Where is MKC getting her information?

from LaCanfora's twitter page lol

The entire offering a first for Bradford came from Lacanfora also, Casserly was quoting him and then others began to quote casserly.

Now if we like Mariotta, we wont have to trade up for him, he will be there at 12. I think the guy falls to Philly and then it will be interesting to see if they take him.

Now as for Shanny, I hated the read option and Flip also ran it with Carr in Oakland and it nearly got him killed. Any designed QB run is just asking for it. QB takes off on his own, I have no issue but to deliberately put your QB in harms way is stupid. Hell I would never run a QB sneak.

Shanny took his football and went home. He didnt want to be here. He was forced on pettine and Pettine didnt want him here. Its a divorce and sometimes a divorce is a good thing. Our O was a disaster down the stretch anyway.

One more thing on Bradford, anyone offering more than a 3rd for Bradford should be fitted for a straight jacket. Lets trade a first for a guy who blew out the same knee twice in his last 18 snaps. Farmer may have offered a first, if so he is stupid.

That reminded me of Captain Penny when he said, "You can Manzel some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can’t Manzel Mom.

He took his ball and went home?

Any coach worth his salt would not have stayed in that situation. When you have an ignorant GM texting you on the sidelines......you have a problem. And all the rhetoric in the world ain't changing that fact.

JC...

I wanted the Browns to use their draft picks to entice the Eagles to trade Nick Foles, but Rams HC, Jeff Fisher wanted Foles over Bradford and the Rams did what was necessary to get him.

Bradford would definitely be a better QB option for the Browns than a recovering Manziel or a 36 yr old McCown...though I'm very concerned about Bradford's durability. That was the major reason I wanted the Browns to go after Foles rather than Bradford...his injury history.

I can't help but wonder if this story is designed to help sell the CON JOB?

The CON JOB I'm talking about is the Browns front office, (Haslam and Farmer), presenting a phony front, making it look as if they did all they could to upgrade the QB position...but none of the deals seem to work out...setting up a situation where all Manziel has to do is beat out a 36 yr old QB, who was one of the worst QBs in the NFL, last season.

JMHO, but I believe Haslam and Farmer are obsessed with making sure that Manziel becomes the Browns starting QB. I believe they are willing to do "anything" to make it happen, too.

At this point, I would gladly take Bradford over McCown or Manziel, even though he appears to have serious health concerns and the chances of him lasting the season, are slim.

Fans need to realize, stories such as this " Browns may make a move for Mariota, or try again for Bradford"...they have a source and in this case, the source appears to be directly from our own front office. Information such as this (story) do not happen by accident.. they are leaked or given to reporters, sometimes with a purpose in mind.

Occasionally stirring the pot by leaking a story to a favorite reporter/writer helps to paint a picture of a front office that is working their tail off, trying to upgrade the QB position...but they always seem to come up short.

I admit, I have little faith in Haslam and Farmer, who are the main principles running the Browns' front office...and I despise their attempts to insert their judgement over the judgement of the coaching staff. That is what textgate was about...putting Johnnie in the game at our front office's request. The results were a disaster and I would think that our front office would have learned from that mistake.

I'm not convinced that our front office learned anything from last years 30-0 butt kicking by the Bengals. Honestly, I do hope I'm wrong about this being a "CON JOB".

My #1 priority as a life long Browns fan (over 50 yrs) is seeing my Browns "WIN"...and seeing the 2015 Browns improve upon their 7-9 record. But I'm not convinced that winning is the #1 priority of our front office. IMO, Haslam and Farmer appear to obsessed with showing the rest of the NFL that they were right to draft Johnny Manziel at 22 in the 2014 draft.

I believe our front office is willing to risk the entire 2015 season in their attempt to show the rest of the NFL that they were smarter than any other front office in the NFL, by drafting Manziel.

I HOPE I'M WRONG !!!!!

Just a heads-up. Foles went to the Rams, not the Titans. Fisher used to coach the Titans back in the day, but has been w/the Rams for quite some time.

vers...thanks for the heads up...I fixed it. I knew it was one of those teams in that area..lol.

I got it wrong but at least I was in the same time zone...lol

LOL, Vers. And we will walk on water across the lake to the stadium for every home game. Can't wait to see it!

I agree with much of this, Mac. Hope I am wrong connecting the off-season dots I see the way that I see them. Seems we are making moves to stack things favorably for Manziel and for success when he returns. Looks like a support group: simpler offense calls, more short throws (backs), may have fewer reads, more running game (please let it be so), and covering up with two vet QB's (a starter and a spare until he can be putt on the field). Hope it doesn't amount to JFF at any price in effect.

I am pulling for him off the field and on, but this seems ego-driven, kind of "I'll show you." Scares me to think what this might cost. Ten draft picks will be challenging enough.

mac: I've seen you take the "path less travelled" before, but with this statement, you are close to getting lost...

I don't think anyone would question that Bradford is a better QB than any on our roster today. However, with that said, He isn't better than anyone on the planet if he's injured and his history tells us that he will be.

Mary Kay Cabot is a hack writer. She hardly is ever right, and just puts suff out there that is already. There is no substance to her articles ever, its just speculative "what if" scenarios. For example her pieces are always titled "Browns interested in ___" yet when you read it, it its all scenario stuff and no actual sources in confirming the title of the piece. Dont take anything she writes to heart. JMO

In a way, all these writers and some folks like Casserly will start a story (with or without merit) and then its like a feeding frenzy. One after the other will post a story siting the other reporter.

No officials, just one reporter using another reporter as a source. no real source.

Hah, well, at least it can't be much worse than what Shanny was doing for us the last several games of the year.

No matter how you slice it, it was a good mutual parting.

This image, from the Cavs thread (from an article on the Kevin Love noise) pretty much sums it up nicely:



In short - throw crap against a wall. Make a bunch of noise about the crap until others also start to make noise about it. Reference the noise of others as validation for your own noise, then get players to comment (or NOT comment) about the noise... twist their (non-)comment to further increase the volume on the crap you started.

Sure is a lot of crap floating around these days.

In reference to the Cleveland Browns media:



In reality though it's true. I mean back in the day they had rigged game shows. When one of the contestants on that show Twenty-One (please don't quote me on this, I'm remembering it off the show Mysteries of the Musuem, LOL) by the name of Herb Stempel exposed that the show was false and rigged - they made laws against that. This "crap" nowadays is borderlined insane, and most especially and I mean MOST ESPECIALLY from that bafoon LaCanfora.

At what point does the creditability of the media, and all it's false, rigged and careless displays of publications - be subject to the same accountability that TV once did?

It's painfully to believe anything these days. If you were to ask me a few days ago about the Farmer punishment, I'd have said at least a fourth round pick going on by the media's publishes. It's almost pointless reading it anymore...

All JMO, sorry for the rant.

But we gobble it up. Sure, we could wait for things to happen and then they could write about what happened using a lot of facts and we could have a discussion about what happened... but that's not how we are, especially sports fans. We want to know what's GOING TO HAPPEN.... or what MIGHT HAPPEN....

Being an "insider", a prognosticator, a speculator, is the new sports journalism. People ragged on the 24 hour news cycle and how we were so impatient that we had to know what happened immediately... well, we've moved beyond that and now we need to know what's happening, BEFORE it happens. And we feel slighted if we don't know, with relative certainty, before it happens.

So I can't blame the media.. if somebody wanted to pay me a lot of money to write articles about what I think might happen tomorrow and nobody held me accountable if I was wrong, I'd do it.. it's not a bad gig.

That's about it Purp.

Oh, must have missed Bradford saying this.

Don't bother quoting "sources". Because I don't think it ever got close enough for the Browns to talk to Bradford anyway.

I keep reading posts in this forum and others where posters have declared JFF a bust, holding no hope or belief that he has ANYTHING to offer. I was never in favor of drafting him. I was in the Carr camp, and I rated Bortles, Bridgewater, and Garoppolo ahead of Manziel. But once we drafted him, I'm rooting for him. Why are so many rooting for him to fail? He may not be the franchise QB some thought he might be, but I think he has a reasonable chance to be the best QB we have on the roster (which isn't saying much, I know) and much better than he displayed last season. He played what, 6-7 quarters of football in '14? I have seen some pretty good QBs look awful for several straight games well after they had established themselves.

I think nearly everyone said JFF would have to change his game in the NFL, his scrambling style wouldn't work against NFL defenses. That takes time. We didn't give it to him. The pressure to win after a good start, the breakdown of Hoyer's game, and the unreasonable expectations of too many people forced him to play before he was ready. To his credit, he realized (probably because he was told by those he respected) that he needed to get his head on straight. I'm sure his priority in life was to live a celebrity lifestyle, and that football was just a means to that end. Last season was his wake up call and it appears he got the message. Will that translate into JFF becoming a better QB? I'm sure he is better than he looked for less than 2 games in a season where he should never have been on the field. How much better is what we have to find out. And there is only one way to do that, give him a chance.

all he has to do is beat out josh, conner, and thad to get the chance. not to hard you would think? ofcourse with farmer not allowed the first 4 weeks to be around the coaching staff it might be a little harder.

I think you--and others--are in for a rude awakening. The problem wasn't Shanny. It was the talent and the dysfunction from above.

I think the offense is going to suck next year.

We'll see.

That won't be a shock to me at all... I - quite sadly - expect our offense to suck every year.

As for whether or not the problem was Shanny, I'm not sure I buy your version, but at the very least, Shanny was a part of the problem... he definitely wasn't a part of any solution.

Well, not buying it is a lot better than ridiculing it.

Watch what happens in Atlanta and Cleveland this year.

A more fair comparison will be in 2016; give Flip a chance to get his "stuff" in place first...

Why didn't you guys give Shanny a chance to get his stuff in place?

Pfftttt..........more hypocritical BS.

Uh......cause he quit?

Yes, he walked away rather than putting up w/BS. That isn't easy to do.

It's more manly than sticking around and being abused by some ignorant tool who has a power-hungry complex.

Oh.

So, once again, the answer to your question:

......is: because he quit. He's not even here to give more time.

LOL........weird.

Yeah, you questioning why people on here didn't give Shanny more time IS weird, considering he quit, and he's not here, by his choice. Weird indeed.

Yeah arch. I am weird and you are a really swell guy w/a great life.

i expect some growing pains for flip, he's a first time OC.


even though thats risky, and theres not much experience there, i think thats what we need to bring in. i know that sounds crazy, but hear me out:

if shanny came in here and did well the first year, then did better the next year-- he was going to get picked up for a head coaching gig.

atleast with flip, his lack of experience will make him have to remain an OC for a bit longer before being offered a HC gig.


i always kind of felt like if we got a second or third time OC, or a HC who was fired then came here as OC, that if they even had any success, they would be gone as soon as it happened.

i mean, if you can turn around the browns, and you have a couple years experience under your belt-- youve got a hell of a resume.

So, in theory..........we want to hire crappy coaches as opposed to good coaches so they won't leave if we win.

Brilliant!

no, we have to hire inexperienced guys, who will take more than a year or two to prove themselves, before getting snagged away from us.


if flip comes in here and does an amazing job, for two years in a row, i dont believe he would be considered for a HC job after that little time.


if shanny came in and did and amazing job for 2 seasons, he would have been.


does that not make sense?

Yes, it does.

On the other hand.............I would rather have Shanny than Flip, but that's just me.

It was extensively discussed when KS was hired that he was only a "temp", here for a year or two at most. He had his shot. And speaking of shots, thanks for the cheap one...

I don't think it was cheap at all. In fact, I believe you earned every bit of it.

I make a football comment and I get "hypocritical". Nice, Vers...

Btw-----------you still haven't weighed in on Farmer's texting. You said you would wait until the league rendered its judgement. They have. He is guilty.

Are you still going to defend him?

Nothing to defend. He was determined to have broken the rules and was "sentenced". Case closed. Next...

Why is that? Dick LeBeau had been with the Steelers since 2004. Many teams have long time assistant coaches. Why is it we have to hire "inexperienced people who won't get hired away"?




It would have if Shanahan had left for an NFL HC position. But he took a lateral move just to get out of town.

Wow...

Here's an idea, why don't you guys make a "Shanny left because..." thread and argue all the crap about him there instead of IN EVERY FREAKING THREAD?

I can't be the only one getting sick of it.

I was hoping someone would start a thread asking for Shanahan's 32 points from his PowerPoint presentation.

29.) Cafeteria food here SUCKS!

Who are you to tell us what to talk about?

I'm nobody... but someone who is waiting for your biweekly suspension to come again.

Get used to it !! When the agenda driven guys sink their teeth into something then it gets brought into every thread regardless of merit .... Shanny left because the Browns/Haslam/Farmer are toxic - no-one will come and play for the Browns or work in the FO ever again while Haslam owns the team and Farmer is GM .... and by god they will keep reminding you!!

Well, my suspension was because I called a guy a liar. Of course, this was AFTER he called me a liar and I was trying to point out the truth.

LB...if you are "sick of it"...

...why the hell are you posting in this thread?

I continued this thread but I realize the subject matter of any particular thread, changes as the discussion changes. You are free to join in...OR NOT.

LB...you do understand, no one is forcing you to comment in this thread...or in ANY THREAD?...you make that choice YOURSELF!

Yes I do understand that, but the thread is titled Johnny Manziel, not Shanny/Heckert/Holmgren/people who just aren't associated with the team anymore. As with all the other non-Shanny related topics that have continuous Shanny discussion.

Hence why I made the suggestion of creating it's own thread, instead of consuming all the others. That's all, meant no offense.

i think dick is a rare example, because he doesnt have aspirations of headcoaching. i think a young up and comer type of guy, it his his ultimate goal to become a HC.

shanny left for what ever reason, but i am certain he would like to become a HC like his father. i dont blame him or anyone else with such ambitions, but my point is simply that unless we find someone very green (but hopefully talented), they will likely just be on there way to a HC gig.

i mean really, if you turn around the browns offense for 2 consistent years, youve gotta be a hot commodity!

I am in agreement for the most part. To me, it's not only THAT Shanny left, but HOW he left that poisoned the water for getting any OC of repute here. He quit, very publicly and loudly, then took the same job with another team. If he had waited for a job and quietly moved laterally, it wouldn't have been so embarrassing for the Browns.

Or maybe it didn't matter, maybe Flip was the guy Pet wanted all along. I like the hiring. I like the 'phoenix' imagery, that there is a new Browns emerging from the ashes the old, first time GM, HC, DC, & OC all working together to build a new team, culture and identity. Yes, there will be mistakes and growing pains. But if we stay the course, we could be looking at a winning franchise built from the ground up into something we can all be proud of. Patience...patience.

holy crap, i never even realized that, first time HC GM DC and OC, hell even owner is new.



yeah i agre how he left looked a bit embarrassing, but at the same time i think he kind of seemed like a little kid having a temper tantrum. it will be interesting to see how his career goes in atlanta. though, i imagine there it will be much easier to be content-- they have a QB which makes a hell of a lot of difference. i will say though, if they have another horrible record year, i would bet we hear grumblings from shanny once again. he doesnt seem like a guy who respects chain of command, nor hides his frustrations...

Bengals Head coaching record 2000-02 Dick LeBeau 12-33-0 .267 wp

Oh, geez.... I wish we weren't always the butt of a joke, but....

Because he failed as a HC with Cincy, and was fired.

I think there's another way to go about it.

If you have a guy for say two years, a successful guy and proven, you can have an understudy learn his system and be ready to step in when he leaves. I do see what you're saying, and I think there's a possibility your way could work.

I'm just pointing out that there's another way. A highly successful guy with a young understudy to learn. Yes, you still end up with that young guy, but he was taught the system you're running so there is stability in the system whether your top guy stays or not.

LB, here's the thing. Some try to paint Shanahan as some evil demon who wanted out so bad he simply snitched out Farmer because he wanted to leave. That Famers actions were no part of what happened.

Now I don't believe that. I don't believe Haslams issues with hires lay squarely on the shoulders of the Shanahan situation at all. I believe when you combine Haslams proven quick trigger finger for firings and compound that with the Shanahan situation, Farmers texting to the sidelines, it probably certainly isn't what one would consider the best opportunity from the outside looking in.

It's a cumulative effect. I believe anyone willing to ignore all of that isn't being very realistic.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen: Browns "90 percent" Done with Manziel

By Joe Ginley  @JoeGinley on Apr 1, 2015, 10:34p 11
Bob Donnan-USA TODAY Sports

Will Johnny get another chance? ESPN's Chris Mortensen doesn't seem to think so.

Would it be an offseason without national media members weighing in on the Browns' futility?

ESPN's Chris Mortensen became the latest expert to express his views on Johnny Manziel, Ray Farmer, and Textgate in a guest appearance on ESPN's Mike & Mike radio show on Tuesday.

Mortensen took a fairly pessimistic stance on the current state of affairs in Berea. According to the ESPN reporter, the Browns have largely moved on from Manziel, Farmer's reputation is damaged, and the first four weeks of the season could be treacherous without a general manager at the helm.

Several other prominent members of the media (looking at you, JLC) have dished out criticism of the Browns in the past year, but Mortensen's words carry considerable weight.

Mortensen began the Browns segment by talking about the club's commitment to Manziel:

"I think about 90 percent that they have moved on [from Manziel] in their own minds except that they really don't know who they're going to get when Johnny leaves rehab, which has been an extended stay — a two-month stay. He should be getting out sometime in the first week of April if they're satisfied that he's ready to go out and get into society and that whatever deep-rooted problems that he had has been addressed. OK, now he's part of your depth chart. You have Josh McCown."

The ESPN NFL Insider then delved into the Browns' fascination with Eagles quarterback Sam Bradford.

"Yes, the Browns were the team, with the second first round pick, 19th pick, that talked to the Rams about that pick in trying to acquire Sam Bradford. But there was no quarterback they could send to St. Louis in return. Nick Foles was the obvious one and Bradford is somebody that the Eagles and [head coach] Chip Kelly have Mark Sanchez as a placeholder until Sam Bradford is healthy, and so I don't think Bradford is going to be available. They would like him to sign an extension, something he wouldn't have done had he gone to Cleveland. So I don't see why Cleveland could sit there and give up a first-round draft pick for somebody who's not inclined to sign an extension. All of these things are in discussion. If we were sitting around the living room, we'd be kicking all this stuff around."

Mortensen ended his view on the Browns' quarterback situation with this interesting nugget of information:

"The bottom line is that Johnny Manziel's future with the Browns has been in question. When they were putting together half of a new offensive staff, Manziel's name barely even came up in conversation."

If Mortensen's reporting is correct, this is a telling piece of intel. If the Browns have written off Manziel as a quarterback, how far will they go to acquire one in the upcoming NFL Draft?

Speaking of the draft, Mortensen explained the NFL's decision not to take away picks from the Browns for Textgate.

Some NFL teams are reportedly frustrated that the Browns didn't receive a stiffer punishment. However, in Mortensen's eyes, the punishment was just right.

"I don't think it was lighter. [With] Ray Farmer's reputation, forever, when people look up Ray Farmer, they're going to see that he was suspended for four games ... People will say 'It's during the time when they don't do much.' In September, well, we don't know who their starting quarterback will be, what if they lose their staring quarterback? What if they lose their left tackle, Joe Thomas? What if you lose a couple of other players? You always have something that comes up that involves the general manager. Now, they're fortunate that Bill Kuharich and Ron Hill both have been in that seat before, that they can work through that. But, to me, Ray Farmer loses a month's pay, he has his reputation stained, probably forever. His text messages that went to a coach or two in the booth were deemed not to be a competitive matter, kind of like you would say, 'Why aren't we throwing deep?' Shouldn't we be playing #2?' ... I don't think it merited anything greater than this."

Mortensen brings up a valid point. An NFL general manager is less active in September, but Farmer might miss out on critical decisions during his suspensions. Also, Farmer's reputation is forever damaged. However, Farmer's image can certainly be repaired if the Browns win under his watch.

As a whole, Mortensen's words are a bit sobering. Manziel's opportunity might have already passed him by, and Farmer's transgressions might cost the team more than just $250,000.

What will the future bring for these troubled men? Only time will tell, but the upcoming NFL Draft will certainly lend some clues.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/4/1/83...ne-with-manziel

Good read. A seemingly fair and balanced article...

I think there's another way to go about it.

I thought that would be for the HC to go hire somebody he wanted and trusted and KNEW - which is what we just did. Acting like Flip is incompetent cause he is new is well unrealistic by dawgs who think they are the ones being realistic.

Just a note usually a guy who has asst. they are his asst. that he brings with him. He usually will take the majority of them with him when he gets that HC job.

I don't understand the problem with what we just got. What has Flip done to signify that he is incompetent?
jmho - directed mostly to the general posters here PIT not all you.

Nothing; there is no "book" on him. If you believe in Pettine then you go on faith with his hiring of the coaching staff...

I think Mortenson's quotes are actually very hypocritical. On one hand, he says Manziel is pretty much done here in Cleveland but goes on to say he has a chance if he comes out of rehab alright.

But with that said, I do think there is more truth to Manziel being on the outs, but I could be wrong....there are tons of rumors going around town that not only are the Browns looking to move on from Johnny completely, but that the feeling is reciprocal in the Manziel camp.

We'll see. As much as some posters think that the FO is all in on Manziel, they clearly have been looking to replace him or at a minimum look for a legitimate starter to complete and probably win. Bradford is a perfect example. Mariota might be the next attempt if they can make the deal. That's a tough one though.

Yes, he did seem to hedge his bet on Manziel. At this point, we cannot count on him being in the lineup. I don't believe anyone can make a definitive statement to that effect, one way or the other...

Some of my close friends, who was riding the Manziel bandwagon in insane high fashions, have seemingly given up on him.

Jersey sales are dead. Manziel mania is dead. Factoring how the media went from writing four Manziel articles a week to almost nothing indicates the media has given up on him and the page clicks for such a kid has diminished.

It would not surprise me, actually be shocked on the opposite, if the Browns won't extend a bit of trust, faith and hope towards him. As someone said, trading for Bradford and etc is an indicator they don't feel a starter is on this roster.

Manziel, using his own words, likely made himself a "jackass" one too many times.

I do feel the door isn't fully closed, there's a small, tiny, barely visible cracking that will take heaps of dedication, heart, effort and perhaps a ton of luck for him to reverse the general outlook that people have of him. Me personally, I'm not expecting Manziel to be on this roster after this season.

All JMO

I would say the chance is the aforementioned 10%.

Manziel is going to go down as one of the most spectacularly failed first round bust QB's in modern NFL history.

If the 90% done comment isn't true, or we are even 'half-in' on him, we need to clean house.

Manziel is going to go down as one of the most spectacularly failed first round bust QB's in modern NFL history.


Nobody will garnish that accolade taken at #22 of the draft.

Possibly in media attention and popularity flops I can agree with that...of course one thing.

He can still succeed!

All of this, of course, is being said in the vacuum of any real developments. We won't know anything until 4/20 (assuming he is out of rehab, which seems very likely) when workouts start. I can't know for certain, but I am positive he has a playbook and is working out in rehab. The Browns will have 10 days before the draft to see where JFF stands and if they can count on him for 2015.

Because people on this board would rather be able to say "I was right about Johnny, you were not" than be able to say "I was wrong about Johnny, and we have a good QB now".

People on the board have their own agendas and its to be keyboard hero's and know-it-alls and would rather be right at the expense of our team then be wrong.

anyone else see the irony in that???

Yeah, I caught that while proof-reading.

The only thing a Manziel discussion at this time will accomplice is a diversion from the real problem .. Haslam and his ( joined at the hip pal ) Farmer !

Let me ask this?

Now that Manziel is a confirmed alcoholic, how does the league alcohol abuse policy effect his future shortcomings?
Is there a contract violation in which the Browns can recoup compensation when they cut him?

I'm not absolutely sure, but since his treatment was voluntary and not a result of a rules violation, I don't think it constitutes a contract violation.

I really wish at this point, that they would move 100% past JM.. The trouble is, it seems wasteful to give up after 2 starts when it's pretty clear JM was facing demons. Demons I might add are his own doing.

So for me, If there is a better alternative, go with it, if not, then what choices do the Browns have.

What if one of his "demons" is he realized he was out of his depth in the NFL? I'm not saying that is the case, but its possible he came to a point last year where, for the first time in his life, it dawned on him that he wasn't all-universe, or maybe even NFL-grade. My point is that just because Manziel went to rehab - which I applaud him for - it doesn't mean he can play in this league. Its kind of like the saying: "Injustice is relatively easy to bear; its Justice that hurts.".

I don't get it.

Hitler's birthday?

Demons that it would seem most other teams were able to see in their pre-draft screening/research checks,and pass. He's put us in a rough situation. Manziel likely to get out 4/20 is what rumors are. That gives them what, a week before the draft to see where he's at and determine if they want to wheel and deal for Mariota, if they want to use a second rounder on a Qb, a later rounder on a more project Qb, trade for another and so forth.

Even though they supposedly been in touch with him while in rehab, I doubt anyone on the staff knows what type of person they are getting back. They'll have a week to determine that and plot their course of action.

JMO

No one is gonna give up on a QB they traded up for in the first after 7 quarters of football, especially when the offense was completely inept and that was the reason he was inserted to begin with. Johnny will get his chance to beat out McCown and if he cant, he will ride the pines for a year and we begin our QB search again.

Mort saying the Browns are 90% done with Johnny, what the hell is that? Johnny gets his crap together and performs then everyone will love him. If he sucks and is back partying, we dump him, end of story.

I hope he makes it and I believe he has the talent to be an NFL QB. If I am wrong, it wont take long to know it. He will however get his shot to take the position. 90% I swear these asses cant write a decent article anymore without trying to serve up piped in drama. I am sure his source was Mary Kay's totally speculative article.

when using logic and common sense, its extremely easy to agree with you. even if it were only a matter of farmers own ego, and not wanting to show that he was so wrong on the manziel pick that he would give up after 7 quarters.

HOWEVER: it's pretty apparent that the browns were in fact attempting to acquire Sam Bradford, at the cost of a first round pick. to me, that says these guys are willing to put their ego aside, and do what they can (within reasonable cost), to find themselves someone who can play the position.





i hated the manziel pick, never thought he would pan out-- but once on the team i could only hope and support otherwise. Im glad we didnt land bradford, and to be honest i hope we dont draft a QB within the first round or two this draft. i'd like to see them give manziel, or mccown the chance to play. if both of these guys are as bad as a lot of us feel they are, we will be in a much better position to draft a potential franchise QB next draft-- as our record would have to be worse than this years.

that way, we know what we have in manziel good or bad, and we show potential free agents and draftees that we arent so rash so as to give up on a player after that little time. it may be ugly to spend 16 weeks confirming our suspicions, but i think its the best option.

Let me say this up front, I don't care who our QB is next year. As long as he produces, I'm good regardless of the name on the jersey.

Now that that's out of the way, If JM turns his personal life around and it positively impacts his playing career, great. I'm all for it and I hope it works. (not really seeing how it can but hey, if it works, wonderful)

If as I eluded to, he successfully fights the demons he brought on himself that's terrific.

Either way, I think the Browns need to address the QB spot and frankly, I don't see a solution out there right now.

That is unless they feel one of the lesser known guys in the draft may be the answer. If so, then I hope they get the guy they want.



it's very possible he realized that. Maybe that's what made him decide to get help to address the problem. Again, if he's successful, more power to him. Now, get to work.. Hope for our sake it works.

I agree with that.

And Tim Tebow can still succeed, too.

And Tim Tebow can still succeed, too.

I'm sorry I didn't realize Tebow was signed and on somebody's roster.

Putting a percentage on something like this is absurd.

Giving up a third round pick to move up and take Johnny Manziel at 22 was a poor decision.

It was a poor decision in many ways. Bridgewater was clearly a better prospect number one. Secondly, there was enough information available about Manziel to avoid taking him that early.

With that being said Johnny Manziel is on the team and under contract. He has played six quarters. He played those minutes carrying his personal baggage.

At this point I do not think there is a "Browns" agenda with Manziel. There is no agenda to start him or move on from him.

Manziel is on his own. What he does or does not do will be determined by him alone.

It is my sincerest hope that he comes back with every thing he's got. Fully ready to give his full commitment to become the very best player he can be.

However, the Browns approach has to be to expect nothing from him. They have to be ready to move on expecting the worst case scenario.

They should eye this draft for a quarterback that they believe can lead this team to the Super Bowl.

Maybe there is a franchise quarterback in this draft that they can get that will be able to do just that.

At the same time I am not ready to give up on Manziel. He has skills. No one can say with certainty that Manziel is a bust. He still has a chance to prove other wise. And he should and will be given that opportunity.

The first report that came out on the Browns and Bradford was the Browns offered a 2nd rounder for him while he was with the Rams, then the story began to grow. Suddenly we are begging Chip Kelly to give us Bradford and we are offering the 19 overall but we balked at giving up 12. If you are willing to give up a first for a QB, 19 or 12 whats the difference. All of those reports came from Lacanfora.

Now I do believe we did try to get Bradford and we offered a 2nd if we could get him extended. Talent wise and injury wise that makes sense. The rest doesnt make any sense at all. You arent gonna give up a first for a QB coming off back to back ACL surgeries. Casserly quoted Lacanfora. It was all nonsense. For some reason, i have a hard time believing we have a lot of dealings with Chip since he told Haslam he was ready to come to the Browns and used that to get more money with the eagles lol. also if anyone was to break a story about the browns trading for anyone, it will NEVER, EVER be jason Lacanfora. I have better sources than he does when it comes to the Browns.

The 90/10 ratio is irrelevant IMO and a way for Mort to craft an out if Manziel ends up staying. Might as well just said 99% sure based on the tone of the article. The entire tone leads to Manziel looking to be dropped if the team has a better option but yet says he'll stay if he gets his act together.

That part seems hypocritical to me. And like I said, I think Manziel on the outs has been in the works for awhile now anyway.

Would the organization market the Jersey of a recovering alcoholic to young fans? Will future treatment interfere with team activities. Is he worth a marketing risk?

Seriously at #22? Lets not forget about Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell! By your logic, Quinn and Weeden were just as big of bust, so how can you say of all time? lol

No questions about it,, Manziel was a bad choice that could have been avoided and should have been avoided.

I'd have rather had Bridgewater or Carr. Either one was a more conventional choice and we had a chance to get either. And didn't.

Dumb move Looking back.

I'm guessing we wanted to make a splash. The trouble is, I think the sound we made was thud....lol

This is based on what 7 quarters of football?? lol.

Bridgewater or Carr, well if I remember the reports on Teddy were he was the most ready QB, but doesnt have a high ceiling. I dont think hes going to be a superstar, i think he is a decent qb, but nothing to write home about.

Carr- eh, he looked ok, but nothing great. I dont see how you can say coming out of college he was a top tier QB either.

Actually, neither one of them were a more conventional choice, as NOT 1 SCOUT or MOCK had either of them better than manziel or going higher in the draft.

Again, with your thought process, P. Manning would have been cut on the first day of his career.

You can say the same exact thing about Brian Hoyer. . . . . . .

No, not on JUST 7 quarters of Football..

He couldn't beat out Hoyer at career back up

He had/has maturity problems

He had/has a "ME" first attitude

He's Priviliged or at least thinks so

And of course, then there is his performance on the field. Both Pre Season and in season.

As of right now, I wish we'd have picked Carr or Bridgewater. I felt the same way when we drafted JM. Nothing has happened to change my thinking.

But to be honest, I want to be proven wrong. if I am, that means the Browns have a real live QB and that's a great thing..

Please don't try to put words in my mouth...

Joe Namath was a bum too cause he partied off the field. The only thing that matters is if you are prepared to play. When manziel was in the game, he was not prepared. that showed, but to say he was a waste and not going to be prepared this season please tell me how you know that Miss Cleo? So FAR he has only shown that he is TRYING to better himself and his career. Checking himself into Regab shows me that he is putting an effort in. We will know more at camp, and at pre-season. However I dont get how your OPINION based on nothing that has happened except in the past can be a sound one.

And you just said dont put words in my mouth, however you said "i hope I am wrong" yet you specifically said "NO questions about it, Manziel was a bad choice". Those were your words. So you say one thing is a fact then say you hope you are wrong, well if its fact you cant be wrong. lol

Your entitled to your OPINION, but to state something as FACT when it clearly is not is WRONG.

If manziel comes out this year and stinks it up again, then yes, it is fact. However, you are not a fortune teller and can predict if he will be a good qb or not.

Doesn't mean he still can't succeed.

Hey, dude if you wanna fight over nothing, go find Vers and argue with him..

Poor only if he busts...good if he becomes THE GUY...3rd rounder is not a great value that will kill the franchise...the First round pick is the one that hurts if he busts. Still in the "IF" bracket...when the fat lady sings - time to crown him.

jmho

Completely false.



If Peyton Manning lacked NFL size and skills, couldn't read a defense, looked like a fan who won a contest on the field, sounded like a moron every time he opened his mouth, and wound up in rehab, it's entirely possible the Colts would have parted ways with him after 7 quarters of football.

There is NO room for a rich spoiled alcoholic young punk on any successful NFL team.

You are the very worst poster on this board.

Johnny is now protected by Hippa

Safeguarding sensitive personal and medical information is of critical importance for people who undergo drug rehabilitation or alcohol treatment, as many people with substance abuse problems go through rehab with the intention of returning to the places they work and live. HIPAA provides for stiff penalties for violation of the Privacy Rule, most notably fines of up to $1,500,000 and for criminal breaches as much as ten years in prison. (2)

As a drug rehab patient you have a right to privacy and to be treated using approved, evidence based practices. Because addiction is an intense disease to recover from, the last thing a rehab patient should be concerned with is the protection of their personal information. HIPAA automatically provides this protection and serious deterrents for those who would violate it.
The Browns must be careful when they cut him.
http://www.recoveryfirst.org/hipaa-and-your-rights-as-a-drug-rehab-patient.html/

j/c

All the angst over JFF can be boiled out with this:

If Hoyer would have gotten about (4) more well-timed first downs JFF would have never even seen the field in a meaningful game. We would have won 1-2 more games and JFF would still be on the bench today.

Bottom line: No one has any idea whether JFF will be a viable NFL starter...it wasn't known a year ago today and it is not known today.

Time will tell and we need to get it figured out.

to be fair:

he couldnt beat out an incumbent starter, who had a lot of fan following for his role in some nice wins the season prior. manziel was a rookie, and inserting a rookie QB who did not come from a pro system, day 1, is not necessarily common practice nor good practice.


i did not want manziel in the draft, and my support for him stems only from the fact that hes here now, as a brown, and thats what were stuck with.


i dont think we saw a large enough sample size to crown him a bust just yet. im hoping he has in fact matured, and i think checking himself in to rehab for 2 full months shows him taking responsibility and working hard to improve himself as a person, so that he will be able to improve himself as a player.


some people use his going to rehab as if it werent under his own control. i'd rather have a guy who checked himself in to rehab, than a guy who refused to admit he had a problem. i'd have felt much better about josh gordon had he checked himself in to rehab.

Link

Trade him to Dallas for whatever they offer. Be done with the drama.

We couldn't get a 7th rounder for Johnny Manziel.

Imagine you are a fan of a team that isn't the Browns, and another fan suggested we go out and get him. Who here would honestly agree with that notion?

Does anyone else see a tank for Cardale type season in our future? I know we know saw three games of play, but those games were against the best in the country.

Too bad we couldn't trade him to Canada for something. That's about the only place I see him being viable anymore.

Two words....

Cleveland. Gladiators.

Just kidding, Johnny.

With the 4-1-15 discharge date botched and Johnny's subsequent desperate girlfriend breakup ploy, Mort got a few tips to make his story, sending a message before Johnny's eventual sit down with JH/dad.

"Hurry up and draft me because I want to be there. Let's wreck this team."

Tanking for a player, when nobody knows if that players is good or not, would be the most Browns thing ever.

Care to explain how it's a desperate ploy?

Are you still holding onto the idea that he has to prove something to rehab personnel in order to be released?

He can walk out any time he wants.

Just ignore him. He is a troll.

j/c...

I see most of you are successful Home Traders. Sell low buy high...lol

Or we these people and just want to get out no matter the circumstances.

vultures circling. How pathetic ones life must be to take pleasure in another humans struggles, especially a young man trying to resolve the demons in his life. Johnny is young and stupid but has chosen to lock himself away for 2 months to get his life in order. This is a wonderful thing for him and the Browns.

I am betting on the kid to succeed. I think the new system will be good for him. I think the team is ready for him. Its up to Johnny now to be the player he was drafted to be.

Mourg-------I am responding to you, but much of my narrative is not directed towards you.


I think it is a good thing that he checked himself into rehab. That takes guts, especially for a person who a huge public figure. I won't make fun of him for that.

I have two issues w/the Manziel situation:

---Our FO should have done a better job of evaluating him prior to the draft. We passed on Teddy for JM. It was a huge mistake.

---I think we might be in the same position of not having our QB again next year. Let's face it, having faith in JM staying clean, learning the offense, and looking like a professional QB is a stretch at this point.

I will conclude that this is a tough sell on the general public. Not the homers on this board who ignore facts, but the people who fill the seats in Cleveland. They raised ticket prices by as much as 40%. They drafted two first-round stiffs last year. They still don't have a proven QB on the roster and chances are that they won't again after next season plays out.

I understand that it's very popular on this board to demean anyone who questions what the Browns are doing, but man, it ain't a pretty picture and all the name calling and insults aren't going to change my mind about that.

Manziel's more of a single wide trailer than a home.

Or had our kicker made 3 more makeable FG's....

Honestly, If I'm the FO, assuming Johnny gets out on 4/20, I don' stress trying to figure out if he's going to be the guy within one week. I think we should approach the draft with the belief that we need a QB, almost as if Manziel wasn't on our roster. With that in mind, do we see anyone in the draft that we'd REALLY want?

This isn't a knock on Johnny. If we draft someone who does well, and JOhhny develops into something special, then we have valuable trade bait a few years from now.

I miss our game day chats! Can't stomach the boards for the most part due to all the hate.

Glad to see we're still on the same side of things. Hopefully he turns it around this season or we're in for another long one.

Vers talent wise i think we both had Johnny ranked mid first last year in a very strong draft. I had Bridgewater top 10 until his proday and rumors of him having trouble griping the ball due to a hand injury. I had Carr as my #1. I also had a first round grade on Garoppollo, the kid in Tenn i had a first on him until his medical failed. I had a late first early 2nd on Bortles, special draft class.

Now we both had the mid first grade on Johnny if he passed the off the field issues. I think he bought into his own celebrity and it bit him

Report: Browns barely even discuss Manziel in planning offense

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 3, 2015, 6:09 PM EDT

As the Browns sat down early this offseason to figure out where to go with their offense following the departure of coordinator Kyle Shanahan, one name was an afterthought: Johnny Manziel.

That’s the word from Chris Mortensen of ESPN, who says that when the Browns started putting together their new offense under new coordinator John DeFilippo, Manziel didn’t seem to be part of the equation.

“I think about 90 percent that they have moved on [from Manziel] in their own minds except that they really don’t know who they’re going to get when Johnny leaves rehab, which has been an extended stay — a two-month stay,” Mortensen said, via the News-Herald. “He should be getting out some time in the first week of April if they’re satisfied that he’s ready to go out and get into society and that whatever deep-rooted problems that he had has been addressed. The bottom line is that Johnny Manziel’s future with the Browns has been in question. When they were putting together half of a new offensive staff, Manziel’s name barely even came up in conversation.”

Ordinarily, if a team is hiring a new offensive coordinator a year after spending a first-round draft pick on a quarterback, there’s nothing more important for the team to know than the coordinator’s plans for that quarterback. If DeFilippo has no plans at all for Manziel, that’s a very bad sign for his future with the franchise.

But from all indications, the Browns currently consider Josh McCown their starting quarterback. And the Browns may even try to add another quarterback, like Sam Bradford or Marcus Mariota. Manziel looks like little more than an afterthought.

link

That article seems like a reporter taking what Mort said and running w/it. No facts involved.

When stuff like this becomes a story on a Friday at closing time...it is usually meant to send a message.

Maybe the message from the Browns is to let the rest of the NFL know that Manziel is available...

...or maybe the message is to let Manziel know that he will be under no pressure when he is ready to get back to football with the Browns.

Take your pick, why this is a story now.

I was thinking the same thing, Vers. As much as I hated the Manziel pick last year, I can at least see that this guy is piling on and not doing any real journalist research...

mac, Lord knows I have been critical of the Browns. I get constant grief from the Homer crowd who do not want to acknowledge any of the stupid moves this regime has made.

So........when I say that the most recent article you posted is pure crap, I think it is safe to assume that it is pure crap.

If you changed the name from Johnny to Brandon, it would sound exactly like what we heard a couple of years ago.

This stuff that became a story on Friday at closing time was said on National TV on the Mike & Mike Show on Wednesday morning. I read it here on the board yesterday.

But maybe you're right, maybe it didn't become a story until today so it better fits one of your theories.

Well, to be fair, Norv runs a vertical offense, which is more suited to Weeden (who's looked really good so far this preseason).

Oh gosh, Captain Penny. Talk about a blast from the past.

Next someone will be quoting Mr. Jing-a-ling ...

If he's our starter this year, I hope he takes us to an undefeated season and a Super Bowl ring. I hoped the same for Hoyer start of last year, Weeden the year before, etc. ...

However, unless Manziel comes out of rehab with a totally different mindset, especially saving his partying for the offseason, he will crash and burn no matter what his skills.

Anyway, unless the Browns make a brilliant move in the draft and pick a kid who becomes a franchise QB headed for the Super Bowl and Hall of Fame, and shows it right away in camp and preseason, we will find out what Manziel can do as a starter, just because there are at the moment no other options.

Agreed. I am not trying to say that JFF will suddenly become the answer. What I suspect is that he is going to be FOCUSED on football like he never has been before. Whatever talent he has, we are going to see it. Maybe it's enough to be a good QB, maybe it's not. I think he is gonna be better than McGowen and better than Hoyer, but that really isn't saying much.

Well, Babe Ruth partied off the field too. A few guys can get away with it. Most can't. Manziel can't.

Anyway, Namath really only had two great years ('68 and '69, 11-3 and 10-4 respectively) being a 50.1% career passer with a 65.5 rating.

Having said that, considering our QB situation since Kosar, I'd take one just like Namath in a heartbeat even if he *only* brought us one Super Bowl, too.

Keep in mind that statement was made out of total Ignorance.

I think...Mortenson got what he views as inside Information by our EX-FIRED QB Coach who is a friend of his sons. But that wouldn't be biased or anything against us. lol

What I do know. When Flip was hired one of the first things he did was spend a day with Manziel. Oddly soon after Manziel went into Rehab.

In their plans? Actually many on this board have viewed actions made by the team as setting the table for the plans to be ALL MANZIEL and nothing else! Probably somewhere in the middle.

If the kid is mentally stable and able - we will give him all the support to become THE GUY. I am pretty sure of that.

I cannot predict any draft day movements. But that would be more so cause they are sure of what they are getting for a QB/QB Prospect than what they have in Manziel. They do know the variables involved way more than myself or anyone here.

I love the prospects of our NEW QB Coach. I think the new O is well organized and a team. Play calling is over rated...its about execution. If they can teach and execute things will be good. OL stays in tact we might upgrade early in the draft...we might not. I do remember it said that we will be keeping most of our Run Schemes from last year.

The most important transition from a new O is the language...I am curious if we kept a lot of the language from last year....to have the transition more seamless. Once you know the language the rest is easy.

What I also know is KNOWING THE PLAYS is one thing. EXECUTING the plays there is a skill to this. Its tough cause I see this on all levels - too much attention given to a new OC in the vast array of Formations - Motions etc. rather than the Get the Play down to PERFECTION. My philosophy is give me 5 plays we can run to perfection....I'LL BEAT YOU! Don't disect that now and say 5! like that is the important part of my claim. OK 6 is better...lol Not my point. Fact is it should grow...20 - 40, if this is everyones full time job eat and sleep I don't see why it can't get to 100!

jmho

So true. I remember the jazz of "putting Weeden in the shotgun, which is what he's comfy with in college, will help". Nope... Lol. Norv had no run game established or even tried to make it a factor and putting the workload on someone like Weeden had nightmare written all over it!

You guys are just now recognizing the piling on?

Sometimes I read these reports and wonder if reporter's "sources" aren't each other, like some kind of BS "synergy" based on nothing other than their combined theories. When someone says something has a 90% certainty, I take that as a statistical certainty - which in the context of this story means, in effect, the Browns are done with Manziel. Nothing Haslam, Farmer, or Pettine has said would seem to support this. Certainly, nothing they have done this off season would support it either. The opposite would seem to be the case - they fully intend to find out this year what exactly they have in Manziel.

LOL........maybe we just aren't excusing away all of the Brown's bad moves by blaming the media for everything.

It is actually really funny reading some of these threads. There will be an article that says something negative about the Browns and a bunch of guys rush on here to discredit the media. Later, another article will appear that paints the Browns in a positive light and those very same posters who ragging on the media will hold onto the positive information like it is The Word of God.

Yeah, on the very same thread.

I don't see anyone excusing away the Browns bad moves.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not the media is piling on.

I am not fighting over nothing, you started by saying I was putting words into your mouth, then i rebutted SHOWING what you said and proving you were wrong. Now you cant handle the simple notion that you were incorrect, after I showed you that you were and result to this.

Reports: Johnny Manziel plays golf Saturday; treatment stint expected to end soon

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

Posted by Mike Wilkening on April 4, 2015, 10:36 PM EDT

On the first Saturday in April, Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel reportedly did what so many sons like to do when the weather warms up.

He played golf with his father.

According to the Shreveport (La.) Times, Manziel and his father played East Ridge Country Club in Shreveport on Saturday.

Manziel has been undergoing rehabilitation for personal issues since late January. According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Manziel’s treatment stint is “likely” to end in the near future.

In the meantime, Manziel is permitted to have some free time away, on occasion, from his treatment.

Golf with his dad on a spring day seems like a nice way to spend that free time.



(end)

They also failed to mention it was Easter Weekend...not just some "TIME OFF" from the facility. He went home for Easter Weekend and instead of partying with his usual boyz...he played golf with DAD...man wish it was warm enough here!

This is the ONLY story since his enrollment into rehab I've heard of him leaving the rehab facility.

And to play golf with your Old Man on Easter weekend, I'd say wise choice to use that free time for such. Much rather hear these stories than seeing the usual JF stories.

as long as it not a shot for
first on
first in
closest to the pin

BTW it was great playing yesterday...

There was an article around Manziel's dad stating how much he disliked playing golf with him. Hopefully he learned something in rehab and the golf outing was a positive experience for both of them.

j/c:



http://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-notes-draft-browns-panthers-patriots-titans/

This begs the question, how did King get this info? I can almost guarantee that it didn't come from Pettine, Farmer or Haslam.

I won't doubt it's accurate, but I'd just like to know who told King...

With his physical limitations, I don't know see how anyone can think Shaw is a anything more than a third QB.

Agreed.

True, but you gotta love the kids heart. I mean he played with little to no notice and gave it everything he had. He's the kind of guy that I enjoy watching and rooting for,

Sure wish he had better skills.

Heart and no talent doesn't get many very far.

shaw is the perfect practice squad QB.

As for Kings article sounds like he is just quoting Mort's espn article.

I remember hearing the same thing about Brian Sipe ...

Someone is going to get axed between Lewis, Manziel and Shaw. I don't see us having more than three qb's on the roster, and, if I understand that since they all have a year+ and a start under their belt, none of our qbs are eligible to ride out the season in the practice squad.

Can someone educated confirm that, please?

shaw can be placed back on the PS.

Is he eligible because he only had one nfl start? Is JF PS eligible? Thanks in advance.

I can't see anyway we place JM on the practice squad unless we are done with him, and then why would we keep him? If we don't want him, then we try and trade him, if no takers, then release him. I just don't see it.

Yup, that's why I said it's too bad he lacks the skills.

If Manziel were placed on the PS he would be signed elsewhere immediately and we would get nothing.

I get it, but technically speaking, could they place him on the PS? If so, why? I thought anyone with a NFL start is no longer eligible for PS, I'm wrong and would like to know the details.

Edit, if anyone else is also curious:

The way I read this, JF would NOT fit on a practice squad

Poor Joe Thomas didn't get the memo I guess.

So what now King getting his info from Mortenson who gets it from his son who gets it from our FIRED QB Coach Loggains?

That is the aberration, not the rule.

He wouldn't even make it through waivers.

Do you have a link for that?

epsn played the comments earlier this eve and it was not nearly as negative as the articles made it out to be.

He basically said 'I don't respect Josh or Johnny. They don't take football seriously. I hope they get it together'.

I'd call that harsh. Tone doesn't really change the words.

I'm glad Joe is fed up with losing and comfortable with his role as a leader to be more vocal in the last few months. I hope he continues to do so.

mourg...what comments you talking about...the March 13 story?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/126270...teammates-trust

Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel, who is undergoing voluntary rehab treatment, will have to prove to his teammates that he's dedicated to winning, offensive tackle Joe Thomas said Monday.
Manziel's Starter QBR Was Terrible

Johnny Manziel had a 1.8 Total QBR in his two starts last season, losing both games. Since 2006, that's the worst Total QBR by a rookie quarterback in his first two career starts.
QBR
Johnny Manziel 1.8 2014
Jay Cutler 3.1 2006
Max Hall 3.9 2010
Tarvaris Jackson 4.1 2006
-- ESPN Stats & Information

"I think he's going to have to prove to the team that football is important and being 'the man,' being the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, is important, it is his goal, his single goal in his life," Thomas told ESPNCleveland.com.

"You know, I think he lost probably a lot of trust among the guys on the team last year by the way he handled himself once he became the starter. And I think he had a lot of time to reflect, I'm guessing, after the season was over by the comments he made in the media and by his actions, checking himself into rehab. ... I think those were really positive steps."

Manziel voluntarily entered treatment Jan. 28 as a direct result of his lifestyle away from the field, and he informed people in his circle before entering treatment that he wants to "figure out his value system," a source told ESPN.com.
Editor's Picks

McManamon: Thomas speaks truth on Manziel

Joe Thomas spoke the truth about Johnny Manziel, who needs to win back the trust of his teammates upon completion of his rehab, Pat McManamon writes.

He's expected to attend the Browns' offseason workouts, which begin April 20. Manziel, who took an Easter weekend trip with his family, is allowed to make occasional trips as part of his rehab program.

"I'm hoping when we come back in April, we see a new Johnny and everybody's blown away with his commitment," Thomas told ESPNCleveland.com. "And I think he's got the talent, so it's just a matter of if he commits himself to it, we can have a really good quarterback on our hands."

However, Thomas, an eight-time Pro Bowl tackle, said the Browns have taken the right steps this offseason by signing free-agent QB Josh McCown.

"Obviously there's some uncertainty with Johnny right now and that's why we brought in Josh," Thomas said. "He's a guy that if he's asked to carry the flag this year, he's going to do a great job. There's a chance we draft somebody or there's a chance Johnny comes back and he's a new person and he's rededicated to football, and he turns into the great quarterback that we expected when we drafted him in the first round."

Manziel, selected by the Browns with the 22nd overall pick in the 2014 draft, completed 18 of 35 passes for 175 yards in seven quarters of NFL play before injuring his hamstring in Week 16.

Manziel is all over NFL Network now with Manziel and Thomas's comments. If it wasn't being displayed by the announcers via a skit - it's gone by the ticker thing at the bottom at least 300 million times.

They even showed that play where he kept backing up and couldn't get the ball out and then got pushed and seemed like he was just going to take a nap lol. I almost had totally forgotten about it. This play:

Someone needs to give Betty White, laying there, a Snickers.

J/C ...... Manziel should be at the bottom of the depth chart for now. He was awful last year, was lazy, and did not prepare.

3rd is no surprise, and there is no one who should be shocked that this is where the Browns see him.

He needs to prove himself to the coaches and to his teammates. He does not have an easy road to travel .... but if he does throw himself 100% into being the best he can be, he can win his teammates and coaches back to him.

It isn't going to happen overnight though, and I really don't see him opening the season as the starting QB under any circumstances. He is going to have to prove himself, and when he gets an opportunity, he will have to take advantage of it.

Dittos...

really? do that crap with the kiddy crew.

Not sure, but I might be okay with that approach. Right now he is a camp arm.

Whether you BELIEVE in Manziel or not I think the most logical thing for the front office to do is to just keep him on the roster and bring him to OTA's and training camp. Let the kid compete to be the backup or even the starter. If he still isn't showing improvement, you just move him down the depth chart or even release him if his performance is bad enough.

I understand it's tough to judge a rookie on 6-quarters of football, and we need to give our 1st round pick an entire season to play and grow, but nothing about last year makes me think he should have the starting job simply handed to him. That's a massive gamble. I see absolutely no harm in letting him COMPETE for the starting job with McCown and whichever rookie QB we draft. (I would be shocked if we don't draft a mid-round QB).

The best thing to do, is to move on as if Johnny Manziel isn't in the 2015 season plans, and if he comes to camp and surprises everyone, great. If not, well no big deal, just cut him and move on.

Just my two cents.

I'm rooting for him to clean up his life, but the way he crapped the bed last season and virtually spat in the faces of the city, fans and teammates by not working hard or giving a damn about his preparation really makes me think that as of now he doesn't deserve to be a Cleveland Brown...

Refs I figured this would be the place you would want this. If not I apologize

http://www.dawgpoundnation.com/2015/04/0...ny-manziel-and/

slick...nice find.

BUT, no way should the Browns give up a 1st round draft Manziel...and another 1st round draft pick...to sign a QB made of glass with this sort of attitude about being in Cleveland...from the posted info..

"The other thing is that Bradford has said that he is not willing to sign an extension with the Browns. Why on earth would the Browns give up major assests with no guarentee that Bradford would do an extension with them? It seems incredibly unrealistic."


If Bradford is dealt under these conditions, the Browns would the biggest fools in history.

Mac I couldn't agree more. This would be a bone head play. If we were going to give up something like our 3 rd 4th and 5th round picks then maybe. But I'f we give up first round picks for a guy who can't stay healthy and doesn't want to be here then I would seriously question if perhaps Haslam is forcing farmer to do these things because I cant see farmer being that dumb

You are right Swish,, That would be bone headed to give up Manziel and a 1st and other picks for Bradford who will mostly likely end the season on the IR.

Very bone headed! Type of move that, for me, would cause maybe a full collapse of trust in the front office. It'd be difficult to recover if that news comes true.

that one thing is something that would lose trust? hehe. i dont trust this team with 2 first round pics again.

Not sure I follow? Did you make that up or is it a fact?

On so many levels, I just hope this is not true..... And if it is true, that we don't do it.

I worry about Bradford's health ..... and would be very worried if we were to trade for him ..... but he would be the best QB we have had since 1999. (except for one year of Anderson) Playing in an offense that limits his exposure, and gives him rock solid protection behind an excellent OL (and with an excellent defense) could be a situation in which he could thrive.

Just joking around...the thing about Mortenson actually was in print - I'm not going to search and bring it up cause now a days its a tweet a twat who knows...I do know I read it - it was supporting why Mortenson's tweet, article had validity by a blogger explaining that Loggains was a QB somewhere as a Senior and took Mortenson a Freshman under his wing...and then when Mortenson was briefly signed by an NFL team it was Loggains that was the QB Coach...and supposedly the two have remained friends...no link just remember reading this. That part was true...

The premise that King got his info from Mortenson was sort of tongue in cheek cause of how rumors come from people who said from people who said.

You got to relax a little there Vers...not everything people post is attacking you - just relax laugh at posts that are even attacking you if they got some football in it...go and argue with football. Take the edge off a bit big guy. Enjoy the board. You are at your best talking football.

jmho and a friend speaking to you not an adversary.

Although Bradford's injury history worries some, it doesn't worry me. It seems no matter who we get to be our QB year-in and year-out ends up on the IR at some point in the season anyways. We might as well have a decent QB who is sure to get hurt instead of a mediocre QB who is sure to get hurt.

The fact that he wouldn't resign with us, however...

You kinda have a good point I'm sorry to say.

As for him not signing with us, from what I've read, it's all about the money. I wouldn't want to pay him big money either. So I'm thinking the Browns are being smart here.

Johnny Manziel making hospital visits

I don't know if all this will add up to Manziel being a better football player, but it is very good to see any person get their life back on track.

To be honest that may have been the first report i have ever seen of him doing anything unselfish.

Finally, a decent to even positive article/fact/ordeal for Manziel!

I'll say it cause most here know I don't like/approve of the kid, but *hopefully* this is the beginning of an endless series of positive events and etc that Manziel is starting to generate.

However, it's all still a wait game.

Just a standard pre-arranged P.R. gig.... let me know when he's doing all the right things without any cameras around and no publicist saying "Hey, look what we've arranged for Johnny to do today so that he looks like a great guy".

Not a PR gig, its part of his REHAB to make the visits per ESPN Cleveland WKNR

The selection of Johnny Manziel in the first round last year has hamstrung the Cleveland Browns.

No matter what direction the Browns take the repercussions of that decision linger.

Manziel was offered in trade to the Eagles.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/24237...ota-not-manziel

Eagles not interested.

His value in trade more than likely would not be worth seventh rounder.

The Browns were forced to bring in McCown (cut by the Bucs) and payed $14 mil by the Browns and Thad Lewis (cut by the Bills and then the Texans).

What a lineup: McCown, Lewis, Manziel, and Shaw.

Joe Thomas made it clear. Manziel has lost the respect and trust of the team.

Alex Mack may opt out after next year according to his best friend JT. Why? Because players like Mack and Thomas are professionals. It offends them that guys like Manziel are not.

The fault does not lie with Manziel though. He has become what was suspected. Farmer/Haslam and whoever else was involved just blew it.

I hope Manziel gets it together. I hope at some point he can contribute to the team. The Browns invested heavily in him and to this point he has made no contributions to the team.

In the meantime the Browns are hosed. They have the worst quarterback roster in the NFL. Their starters are barely good enough to be backups.

The Browns go into another draft with no solution at quarterback. They would have to give up a bunch to trade up for a quarterback and even then that may not be enough.

So this year is toast. Next year they will be in the same position. And unless they have the worst record in football their ability to land a quarterback to lead the team is far from guaranteed.

So the decision to draft Manziel is not only a miss but it burns the team for years.

I disagree... in the past days... it would hamstring a team for years...money wise... now it doesn't as much....

What if we only had one draft pick last year, what if we had two but used it on another position instead of QB...(lets leave Carr and Bridgewater out of this conversation for a moment), that would not have hamstrung a team "for years" to extrapolate a bad pick ( even a first rounder) into years of failure is not necessarily true.

Now you still have to find the QB regardless of why you don't have one, but the implication In this article is since they have JM that prohibits them from finding another QB... there is no cause and effect relationship, you need to find a QB regardless of who is on the roster and one person one the roster does not keep you from doing that.

Purp,

I totally get what you're saying, but truth be told, if there are no cameras around and no pub. saying anything, we'd never know that he was/wasn't doing any of that stuff. It's the equivalent of a rich person donating anonymously to some charity. People might criticize the person because their name isn't on any donation/charity lists, but it doesn't mean they aren't doing it.

That being said, I too take this pic with a bit of skepticism.

"What if we only had one draft pick last year, what if we had two but used it on another position instead of QB...(lets leave Carr and Bridgewater out of this conversation for a moment), that would not have hamstrung a team "for years" to extrapolate a bad pick ( even a first rounder) into years of failure is not necessarily true."
======================================================

There is no what if's. There is only what is.

They had two picks and Bridgewater was there. The Browns were given the mission of find a quarterback. They ignored the information in front of them on Bridgewater and Manziel.

Yes, the financial implications are not as bad as in the past.

However, the true cost for Manziel is still very real.

Last year gone; no help. This year basically a wash.

Next year same issue find a guy. Whoever they select and when will still need time to develop.

So instead of starting this year with a guy in place with a year under his belt.

The Browns are years away with uncertainty still the picture.

Listening to the video, it's saying that the reason the Eagles don't want Manziel is that if they trade Bradford it will be to obtain picks to use as trade bait to move up to get Mariota.

If the Goal is to get Mariota, why would they want Manziel?

I'm certain that there will be a fair deal on skepticism, but that says more about us then it does about Manziel...

People say we should have taken Bridgewater, but who's to say he'd have done any better than Manziel. I have zero faith that Shanahan and Loggains could have coached him as well as Norv in Minni. Besides, Bridgewater didn't want to play here.

Bridgewater did not want to play in Cle

At least Manziel wanted to be here. We'll see how he does this year.

I wouldn't base your opinion on Norv's ability to coach qbs, you know, factoring he got nothing out of Weeden while here. JMO

It is immaterial to the point.

No matter what Manziel has no trade value.

Part of the importance of seeing what we have in JM. He may have no trade value now, but IF he can prove himself this season, he may. Many professional NFL talent evaluators believed JF has what it takes to succeed in the NFL. What he proved last year was that he wasn't taking the responsibility required. He has neither proven nor disproven the ability. He still could be worth something.

Manziel wanted to be ANYWHERE as long as he got paid. The Browns (as usual) got suckered. Haslam at least got something from him in the form of marketing the team, selling tickets and jerseys. He is useless as an NFL QB. Haslam GOT THE FANS MONEY and Johnny got paid. What did the fans get? Screwed. As usual. Move to LA. See you guys in 2018. LOL

Probably.

What is even MORE immaterial is discussion about "if only we'd have gotten Bridgewater."

We didn't.

As I tell my wife all the time: You can't change yesterday, or 10 years ago. You can LEARN from it, but you can't change it. So, why fret about it. Deal with today, plan for tomorrow.

Most people know where we've been. Only the few with vision, are able to see where we're going...

To learn from the past, we must look at it and remember it. The vision moving forward depends solely on one thing. That's IF the powers that be, who made past mistakes learn from it.

We have no power to make such a vision a reality.

I am hesitant to respond because I can see this spiraling into we should have drafted TB and that is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

That is a given...we could have drafted a better QB.... got it... no argument.... a better QB would have made our QB situation... well... better... understand...

Ok that is out of the way... my only real problem I had with the article was the conclusion that Taking JM will cause years of problems... my contention is that aside from the salary dollars, which is no where near as damaging as it once would have been ( see Sam Bradford rookie contract dollars), taking JM is no worse than say we didn't trade up and KC ( or someone) took JM and we ended taking a OG or say we weren't able to fleece Indy in the TR trade and we had only one first rounder.

Cut JM , its no different than if we never got him in the first place.... the needs are still the same....find a QB.

Your reasoning is sound, I understand, but to pin potentially years of problems on the drafting of one player does not compute. Not meant to excuse FO... they have their work cut for them... no QB... no winner

I do have one exception to your response though... no what ifs? except the what if we drafted Bridgewater?

Remember and learn from your past
live and enjoy your present
look to and plan your future

It causes years of trouble because it is a quarterback taken in the first round.

Not the same as a position player or if you draft a 3rd rounder to develop behind a legit starter.

The damage is done and it will take years to fix.

In this case, it's those doing the drafting that we must hope learn.




Considering the topic is our current QB situation, I'm not so sure there's much about it to enjoy at the present time.




Once again, in this case we have zero control over that.

I don't know if that's exactly a fact or your opinion.

Manziel visiting hospital picture...funny part about it - I looked at his head and I'm like - that's PHOTO SHOPPED...lol

Well here is the Good news.

1. We are going all in with Manziel and he's straightened himself out to work hard at being the best.
a. (best scenario) He becomes a Franchise QB we yearn for.
b. (worst scenario) he falls back to old ways or just doesn't have the mustard for the NFL.

2. We are going to have Bradford on our team with a 4 year deal.
a. (best case scenario) he plays.
b. (worst case scenario) he doesn't.

I'd rather have those options than MEDIOCRE - at least we got a shot at Gusto!

jmho

Alex Mack still believes in Johnny Manziel and the Cleveland Browns center thinks he can be the long-term answer at quarterback despite a disappointing rookie season and a stint in rehab.


The fate of Johnny Manziel is a mystery after the former Heisman winner was a colossal disappointment as a rookie and is finishing up a stint rehab where he’s been the last two months receiving treatment for undisclosed reasons.


Last year’s second of two first round picks came under fire from perennial pro bowl left tackle, Joe Thomas earlier this week when the Browns offensive lineman said Manziel has to earn his trust back and prove he wants to put the work in to be the starting quarterback

“I think he’s going to have to prove to the team that football is important and being the man, being the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, is important, it is his goal, his single goal in his life,” Thomas said.

His linemate, Pro Bowl center Alex Mack took a different approach than Thomas and is still optimistic Manziel is capable of being the answer at the position the Browns have struggled to fill since Bernie Kosar and told Sirius XM Radio that he isn’t giving up on Manziel.



Mack can opt-out of his contract at the end of the 2015 season so if Manziel fails to be the player the team hopes he would be when they traded up to get him with their second pick in the first round, Mack could wash his hands of the situation and find a team where their starting quarterback didn’t spend the offseason in rehab and can lead Mack to the playoffs.

However, he’s focused on the present and is confident the Browns are headed in the right direction and his primary focus is on staying healthy and will worry about his contract status next year.



You have to respect Mack for taking a glass half-full approach here and not throwing Manziel under the bus, but at the same time, I don’t fault Thomas for his comments either because he’s the leader of the team and is fed up with losing.

So while rumors continue to swirl the Browns are interested in drafting Marcus Mariota, trading for Sam Bradford or simply giving up on Manziel entirely, this much is clear, Manziel has a lot of work to do on and off the field to shed the bust label that’s plastered across his chest like the scarlet letter.

Alex Mack: Johnny Manziel doesn’t need to earn my trust back

Posted by Josh Alper on April 8, 2015, 1:57 PM EDT

Browns left tackle Joe Thomas said in a recent interview that he thought quarterback Johnny Manziel “lost probably a lot of trust among the guys on the team last year” as a result of the way he handled himself as a rookie.

Thomas added that Manziel has the talent to succeed in the NFL, but said he felt the way last season played out created “uncertainty” around the team about Manziel’s fitness for the job. Center Alex Mack had a different take on Manziel during a visit with Rich Gannon and Bruce Murray on Sirius XM NFL Radio on Wednesday.

Mack said that he didn’t feel that Manziel had to win back his trust after the way things played out in 2014 and that he still thinks Manziel can be the long-term answer at the position in Cleveland. Other reports have indicated the Browns brass doesn’t feel the same way, but Mack’s comments suggest, to little surprise, that there’s no unanimity about what the future holds for Manziel.

Mack’s future in Cleveland also came up during Thomas’s chat with ESPN Cleveland. Mack can opt out of his contract after the 2015 season and Thomas said he wouldn’t be surprised if Mack decided to do that in the event the team couldn’t show him that “we’re moving in the right direction.” Mack said Wednesday he thought the team was doing “good things” and that he hasn’t thought about what he’ll do in 2016 at this point.

That said, Thomas is probably right that a good season wouldn’t hurt Cleveland’s chances of holding onto Mack. Finding the right answer at quarterback would help on that front, although there’s much to play out before we’ll have an idea if Manziel can be that answer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-my-trust-back/

j/c:

A few comments on some of the posts and news:

--Daman said that he read the reason Bradford would not sign an extension w/the Browns was because of money. What? I was driving back to SC from Ohio and heard three reports that it was because he thought the Browns were a mess. Money was not even mentioned.

--Ignoring the past is ignorant. That is why the Browns--and so many posters--keep making the same stupid mistakes.

--I couldn't even believe the post that mentioned something about Teddy not looking any better than Manziel had he come to Cleveland. What?

--It was nice to hear that Mack stood up for Johnny. Of course, he is probably gone after this year. LOL.

--I wonder if Joe T is getting totally fed up w/the Browns? I'm not sure about that, but he has been pretty negative as of late.

--I don't know how to take the hospital visits by Johnny, but I am glad he visiting hospitals rather than bars.

--I am probably not smart enough to figure this out, but the Bradford, Manziel, Mariotta rumors really do not make much sense to me. Seriously, I don't get any of those rumors. Maybe one of you "smart guys" can explain it to me.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have looked better. I'm saying we don't know that he would have. Remember how terrible the o-line looked when Manziel got his PT? Tom Brady would've looked like crap behind that type of blocking. I also think Hoyer regressed for whatever reason. Has Loggains ever developed a good QB?

I think the team didn't play for Johnny. The defense got destroyed by the Bengals in that same game. Hill ran all over us. I believe he had over 100 yds. in the first half! This was the same guy who punked us after we beat them earlier in the year. And we let him run all over us.

I don't blame the coaches for that game. I blame Farmer and the FO. This is what people on here don't seem to get.......they forced personnel decisions on the coaches and that is why Shanny wanted out. He was the only guy who was good enough to say "screw you" to the idiots in the FO. The Brown's players laid down that day when Manziel was forced into the starting lineup by the FO.

Loggains is a young man. He is around 33-34. Matt Hassleback had his 3rd best year under him. Jake Locker had his best showing under him. The Titans ownership/FO did not like Loggains because they felt he passed the ball too much. They wanted him out and it was the biggest reason Mike Munchak lost his job in Tenn. He would not agree w/the FO. And I am going to tell you something right now.............Mike Munchak is one of the most respected football guys in the league.

I also want to refute another popular misconception that has made the rounds on this board. People tie Shanny and Loggains together. I have read posters who say that Loggains was Shanny's boy. That's BS! Loggains was hired before Shanny. People make crap up to fit their arguments. They repeat it often enough and others start to believe it. All of a sudden, it becomes a "fact." Making a mistake is one thing, deliberately deceiving people is quite anoter.

Vers I don't know how valid any of these things are that we hear read etc.

I do know that I read that our snafu in signing Bradford is that we are offering around 6mil a year of base salary and the rest bonuses...and he is set to make 12 mil for 2015 and wants around that for the entire 4 years.

I know I read that. What do we believe. How do they come up with these exact type of amounts...is there truth to it.

Is this all on a condition that we move up and Get Mariota? That Mariota is there for our #12 Pick?

Who knows. I think this is all smoke pre draft bs.

jmho

Manziel out of rehab

My guess is that we get some sort of sit down interview with someone like Tom Rinaldi.

JF on the Oprah show!

In all seriousness, it's begun. What type of person do we have now after a long rehab process? All to be seen.

I certainly can't speak for anyone else, But I'm willing to become non judgmental and just let it play out when it comes to Manziel.

I wasn't, and remain not in favor of him being picked last year in the draft but he's here now and as long as he is, I'll root for him.

Can you imagine the number of problems that get solved by him turning it around?

did they give him growth hormones? maybe some speed pills to make him faster? some kind of pill for better balance so he can be elusive?

a brain transplant so he can learn a play book maybe as a bonus?

Well Damanshot it would sure get rid of the pblack1870 BS!

Good for him. I hope it really help him, both on and off the field.

As someone who celebrated 20 years of sobriety last fall and has sponsored dozens of guys over the years I put the odds of him...
1. Staying sober as a 23(?)yr old flush with cash, ladies and hangers-on AND
2. Not falling apart mentally emotionally in the high pressure, max visibility world he's stepping back into with few of the coping skills he's accustomed to accessing the last 23yrs AND
3. Actually becoming anything like the kind of QB we hoped beyond reason he would be...

at less than 1 in 1000. Maybe way less. I've known 2 people, (coincidentally both wallstreeters) come in young, get cleaned up, and with nary a breather go right back into super high pressure gigs with upward trajectory and not have some kind of a blow out (that I know about). But they were both guys who knew how to work, how to study and focus, who understood and accepted the challenges in front of them without much fight and were getting clean BECAUSE it was interfering with their success. I don't know Johnny but I don't think that's his make up.

All I hope is that the kids works it out on a personal level and lives a decent life. All the football stuff... yea, I just don't see it. Call me a cynic but that is an epic balancing act. A dog juggling flaming bowling pins on a unicycle on a tightrope on a windy day kind of balancing act.

If I were the Browns I'd frankly be playing it exactly like they're playing it. Treat him almost as though he's coming back from multiple knee/ achilles blowouts. They'll know if he's good within a couple of weeks. If he is good, you ride it for as long as you can but realize he could have one little lapse and the whole house of cards comes down. So you just keep zero mental investment in him and march on with other plans. The minute he went into treatment it was over in my mind.

"The minute he went into treatment it was over in my mind."

Wow... I've been clean & sober 19 years and that last sentence was pretty pessimistic. When I heard he went into rehab, I thought it was a big step in the right direction for him.... Don't know if he'll be able to pull it all off (stay clean, be a good NFL QB), but we shall see. Would I bet on it? Well.....

I gotta agree with you on a lot of the other things you say.

He will have to be obsessed with football to make it in the NFL and not use alcohol & other drugs ever again. Turn his back on them. Only time will tell.

-I'm gonna watch a bit of Dexter and hit the hay.

must have missed something. did he look big, fast, elusive and like he knew the playbook to you vambo?

Congratulations man!!!! That's awesome.

As for the rest of your post:

I don't think he'll turn out to be a QB that can take us to playoffs and then beyond either. The odds are against him. One thing is for sure, if his personal life has been taken care of, and he can/will focus on football - that can only help his odds big time of proving you and I wrong!

Yea, if it were a year from now and he were sober all that time I'd revise my opinion. I said it when the news first broke that if I were his parent or his agent I'd seriously try to convince him to take a year off. But 60 days clean in-patient and walking out and diving right back into the soup? ....yea, no. I really hope as a person he proves me wrong. But as a Browns fan I have absolute zero confidence he's our guy moving forward.

Life is a crap shoot. The easy thing to do is predict failure. The facts are that as fans with not access we can't possibly know enough to say with any certainty what will become of Johnny Manziel.

I'm hoping for the best and I'll leave it at that.

As someone who also has been thru recovery, I hope he can refocus. For me, the things that I neglected, became my new addiction. It was a mind set that I needed a lot of support to maintain. Some people can do it and never look back, others may stumble. But even those who do stumble, have a better chance than someone who doesn't experience the first fall.

The Browns have to become part of the equation for him. Be his support system, until he can do it alone. He is an investment they made, and if they want it to pay off, then they need to help this kid stay focused. I wouldn't call it babysitting, more protecting the investment.

First and foremost, Manzeil is a person. A very young person at that. A very young person who is becoming aware of a problem that coming from his backround, is something that was never thought of in his mind. I believe the kid thought he had the world by the balls. I imagine his eyes have been opened through this experience.

This program could have helped him mature, and open his eyes to what life really has to offer beyond money and good times.

If he works at his rehab, the only thing that will stop his career, is a lack of ability.

I hope he makes it past his problem. If he becomes a good player, that is just icing on the cake.

I'll add my voice to the chorus of sober posters (25 yrs) rooting for his success in his new sobriety. One of the primary things that kept me sober in the first year was focusing on my work, almost to the exclusion of everything else. I have seen others do the same over the years, and believe that if JM does it, as E.Ryse19 said, the only thing that will stop him is lack of ability.

J/C ...... I think that this really shows a new maturity for Manziel. Now he has to hold onto that new maturity. He made the decision to not only get help, but to do so in a very public manner. This could not have been easy.

I hope that he stays sober, out of trouble, and dedicates himself to football. I do think that he can succeed if he does so.

I didn't know there were so many others in recovery here like myself!

I didn't have a job to focus on, my own place to live (I had to move back in with my parents!), a car or even a driver's license when I got 'back to realty,' but the thing that really set the tone for me was that I - in two words - wised up. I had to say to myself that the party was over and I was a complete screw-up because of drugs. Hopefully this stint in rehab will be Johnny's wake-up call for him.

We may have enough for our own meeting

LOL It won't help,, PB will come up with something else.. I promise you...LOL