DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Draft Need: QB Part 2

The Patriots accept your offer... Trading a 2015 for a 2016 without any idea of the placement does not make any sense for a team that has struggled to win.

I do too. Thinking of it from that viewpoint I wouldn't mind trading both our 1st round picks into next year. Especially if both trades included a lower round pick in this draft, (like a 2nd 3rd or 4th), and next years 1st.

Two of those deals would be bad ass because we'd have three 1st round picks next year. Should be able to have anything we'd want with that ammo. At least a QB and another high quality player.

Sad part is we've had the luxury of an extra 1st rounder several times.

And look at our 3 recent first round QBs. Weeden, Manziel, Quinn (trade). We skipped over all of them with our first pick! We're picking RB/CB before the QB.

It seems we view that extra pick as a no-risk, freebie and we're reserving it for QB that scared us the first time around. This strategy has to stop. Draft a guy that you are crazy about, not someone that you are afraid of.

We need to draft a QB. It doesn't have to be in round 1. Franchise QBs come in all rounds. I like Sean Mannion on day 3 of the draft. He has the size, the arm, and he's comes with a lot of experience and maturity in pro-style system at Oregon State.

I don't believe you draft anyone in the first round that you don't at least have some conviction in.

Now I do agree that the level of conviction isn't quite the same as someone you would draft in the top 5 or so draft picks.

I would liken it to someone being 100% sold on a top 5 QB pick verses being 85% sold on one they draft at #22.

IMO, the draft is always a risk/reward situation. If you really don't have any type of strong conviction in a QB, you draft him much later and only if he falls. ie... Colt McCoy, 3rd round.

I don't think we're really that far apart here.

I hope you aren't considering this some badge of honor... If anything it's contradictory. Dolphins fans I know are about ready to give up on Tannehill. There's a lot coming out about his receivers not believing in or trusting him as a QB. He doesn't have what it takes as a leader. He was being criticized by his teammates for not communicating to his coaches that what they were doing with the wideouts wasn't working. For example, one game they had only three active wideouts and just ran fly pattern after fly... There receivers were clearly gassed in the huddle and he just continued to go with whatever play was called in like a robot. Tannehill wouldn't be the answer here, either. He was a bad pick at 8 and would have been a worse one at 4.

I like him too. I didn't know a lot about him until his name came up on the board, and the more I watched of him the more I liked. The only thing he seems to lack is flat out running speed, but he understands how to move int he pocket, and that is more important than just being able to run.

I saw Sean Mannion in the Senior Bowl. He looked HORRIBLE! HORRIBLE I tell you!

'Will the Browns make another run at Sam Bradford or pursue Marcus Mariota? Hey Mary Kay!'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/03/will_the_browns_make_another_r.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on March 29, 2015 at 5:24 PM, updated March 29, 2015 at 5:58 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hey Mary Kay!

Hey Mary Kay: Are the Browns really going to go with Josh McCown at quarterback
this year or do they have another moved planned? Will they make another run at
Sam Bradford? Are they hoping Johnny Manziel can play?

-- Lou Piernik, Medina, Ohio

Hey Lou: I think the Browns are fully prepared to start McCown this year, but they will continue to look for chances to upgrade the position. I think they'll try to trade up to draft Marcus Mariota, and I also think they could make another run at Sam Bradford on draft day. If they don't land one of those two, I do think McCown will be their man in 2015. They are also big on Connor Shaw, who could start games for them this season if necessary. As for Manziel, they'll see what happens when he gets out of rehab soon. At this point, I don't think they can get much in a trade. Maybe Jerry Jones is still interested.

Hey Mary Kay: I think the Titans like Zach Mettenberger and the Jets are going
to roll with Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick. That being said, there is a chance
Marcus Mariota could fall to 19. If so, could you see a scenario where the Browns takes the Eagles' 20th pick and Sam Bradford for the 19th where Philly could get Mariota?

-- Trent Somple, Columbus Ohio

Hey Trent: I don't think there's a chance in heck that Mariota falls to No. 19. Too many teams need quarterbacks and too many are willing to take a chance even on a projection like Mariota. But he's highly-regarded by plenty of NFL coaches, including his old Oregon boss Chip Kelly, who thinks he's the best QB in the draft. I don't see
him getting past No. 6. He could go as high as No. 2.

Hey, Mary Kay: Where do you think Browns would be now if they had not reached for Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel, and instead went after top quarterback free agents with large cap space? Would they now have a top offensive line plus playmakers to make a Colt McCoy, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer or better free agent excel? Have the Browns repeatedly hurt themselves by reaching for players and changing staff?

-- David Seed, Shaker Heights, Ohio

Hey David: There's no question the Browns have hurt themselves with their constant turnover in the front office and coaching staff. When they do draft a quarterback, they don't take the time to develop him. I thought Colt McCoy had potential to be a winner, but he was never surrounded by enough talent or given a chance. Same for the rest of them. At least this regime understands the importance of building around the quarterback and not putting all of the pressure on one player. If Manziel is to have a chance, he'll need a great supporting cast.

Hey, Mary Kay: The coverage of Textgate has focused on what punishment Ray Farmer and the Browns might suffer as a consequence. Shouldn't we be concerned about the effect on Browns reputation and his ability to be effective going forward? Almost certainly the act of attempting to interfere with coaching decisions during games had a ripple effect in league circles. It was a factor in Shanahan wanting out. Was it a factor in not being able to hire experienced offensive coordinator and QB coach replacements. Could it have been a factor in why a team with $40 million to spend couldn't sign a top 50 free agent at positions of need? Thoughts?

-- Andy Brodhead, Mayfield Heights, Ohio

Hey Andy: I think the inability to attract some of the bigger-name coordinators had more to do with the high turnover rate at the position and concern in league circles that Jimmy Haslam might have a quick hook for this staff if they don't win this year. As for big-name free agents, the Browns didn't try hard to sign many. They inquired about a few, but are committed to building through the draft. Yes, the texting was a factor in Shanahan's departure, but I think it was much less a factor in the hiring of a new coordinator. Mike Pettine has also really liked John DeFilippo for a long time
and wanted to give him a chance.



(end)

Totally agree eotab. Passing on the QB, then drafting him at #22 just looks greedy to me.

This approach has cost us Three 1st rounders, plus a 2nd and mid-level for the Quinn/Manziel trades.

Considering our QB Nightmare, I'd rather reach for the guy we want then settle for the guy we didn't want.

Which guys did we not reach for?

Yeah it's been a combination of settling and then reaching...

We couldn't get the top guy.. Or even the second guy.. So we'll just take the third guy and HOPE he's good..

That did also include some reaching, Weeden, and Manziel IMO.

It could of been worse.. Oakland and Detroit could of taken Megatron and Joe Thomas.. And we would of ended up with Jamarcus Russel...

'The NFL world was underwhelmed by Jameis Winston's Pro Day'

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-world-underwhelmed-jameis-winstons-210906621.html

Business Insider By Cork Gaines
4 hours ago

(ESPN)Jameis Winston, the presumed No. 1 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft, held his Pro Day in front of NFL scouts on Tuesday.
The initial reaction from many was that it could have gone better.

Todd McShay of ESPN said he was "underwhelmed" by Winston's performance, which included 102 passes. Charles Robinson of Yahoo! Sports called it an "OK performance" and that Winston will tell you he could have done better.

Bruce Feldman of Fox Sports wasn't sure if he should call the performance "very good, good or meh."

One of the most common criticisms was that Winston did not look good when he was asked to throw on the move.

"Every time he's been on the move, he's been off a little bit," former NFL quarterback Kurt Warner said on the NFL Network. "We've seen some throws (behind) receivers."

NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger thought Winston's personal quarterback coach, George Whitfield, did a poor job setting up the workout as they tried to show that Winston had overcome some of his negative traits. Instead, the workout may have just emphasized those weaknesses.

"I am surprised that George Whitfield OK'd this here today," Baldinger said. "I don't think this is putting him in the best light."

And herein lies the problem with analyzing these type of workouts. Analysts expect a perfectly scripted workout that allows the quarterback to complete every pass and show off their strengths. Analysts have seen perfection so many times, even from mediocre prospects, that it is now expected.

The reaction of Fox Sports' NFL Draft expert Joel Klatt sums this up perfectly, noting that Winston did too much and should have thrown the number of passes typically seen at these workouts.


Joel Klatt ✔ @joelklatt
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Winston & Whitfield tried too hard to prove point throwing off platform...average workout...would have been better at 60 throws not 102


At the end of the day, Winston's draft status might have only been impacted if it was a complete disaster, and nobody is saying that.

Of course, the bigger issue with Winston is the off-field concerns and, at least publicly, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers don't appear to have any.

"The more questions you ask and the more you dig, the more good you find," Bucs general manager Jason Licht told ESPN. "For [Florida State people], he's a tremendous person. They trust him fully. You can't find a bad thing said about him."



(end)

Hopefully if GM's learned anything from last year it was to look far more at game film than be too influenced by a QB throwing a ball around on a practice field.

The biggest question about Winston is why he makes such horrible decisions ON the field. He throws some passes that would make Brandon Weeden blush.

And as someone said, the ProDay has it's value but it doesn't show you decision making nor the ability to read defenses and coverages. All you have for that is film but even that film lacks because it's not vs NFL-Type defenses.

For any QB, bad decisions made in college will be amplified in the Pros.

This is where someone comes in and yells, "MATT RYAN!"

MATT RYAN!

Or if we learned anything from Kelvin Benjamin, we might assume that Winston tanked his pro-day on purpose to keep another team from trying to trade up with Tampa to take him out of Florida.

ProFootabllTalk: Will Cleveland make a move to take Marcus Mariota?

Posted by NBCSports.com on April 2, 2015, 7:26 PM EDT
Browns’ insider Mary Kay Cabot joins PFT to discuss the chances of the Browns trading their two first round picks to move up in order to take Marcus Mariota and the current status of Johnny Manziel.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

If the Titans don't want Mariota I can totally see this happening. I think the Titans want Mariota.

If the Titans want Mariota, maybe they will trade us Mettenhamburger for JFF....

If I were Tennessee and think a better QB option can be had next year, I trade the Mariota pick for a minimal first this year and next. This alone makes me think Farmer won't make the deal. It will mean Farmer gives up three first rounds for two QBs with high risk. Farmer stands a better chance waiting next year for similar talent without a major investment. I can see a trade if Browns had nothing, but Manziel isn't a complete washout just yet.

I just watched some (junior year) video of Sean Mannion. Nice arm, not mobile, and I saw a tendency throw off his back foot when under pressure. But he also showed nice touch, good field vision, and when he steps into his throws, good velocity and the ability to throw the deep routes with accuracy. Not a finished product but has the tools and his deficiencies are coachable. I think he is a good late round option.

If you want to be really blown away, go watch Mannion's 2013 tape.

Or take two olinemen studs in the first rd to help protect the QB's from injury and the yearly predictable doom to come at the hands of every NFL defense we face. It's really pretty simple.

Stop.

LOL, Eo, and it said a lot. The Powers That Draft have chugged the KoolAid after swallowing the hype, and setting aside the "issues" baggage (that pesky character thang again!), and this kid is the anointed Number One consensus pick.

Let's not screw it up by inserting reason and questioning the Next Sure Thing.

Mannion was very bad last year. He also didn't have Brandin Cooks. I don't think that is a coincidence. I don't want Mannion unless it is the 6th round or later.

No thanks to Mannion for you "Mannion" lovers.