DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The QB Situation in 2016-2017

It sure appeared that way.

The way the defense let Hill run all over them after he bad-mouthed the Browns earlier in the season was really disheartening. I was hoping we would shut him up, but he punked us all day. The Bengals totally dominated us. It sure appeared that the Browns did not come to play.

I can put some blame on JM for that because the players didn't respect him, however, I can't accept any player ever quitting on his team no matter what the circumstances. It's like we have a team full of losers.

You are a real piece of work. I wrote a detailed answer to your post, and you reply harshly to me about some made up attack on you. You did not stick to the topic, you referred back to your pity party mentality.

Then you post as if you were the only one stikng to the topic, when it was you that got pissed because someone ask you about your thoughts about the future, something you act as if is an attack on you.

Then you got the balls to suggest I and others got off topic. I don't know if it makes you happy to piss people off for no reason, but I have always been straight up with you, now you are acting as if I attacked you.

I don't normally respond to crap like you present, and have watched you do it to many others, but I can't take it anymore. You went from being a valuable poster with good insight, to being the class clown.

I'm sure you will come back and try to lambaste me for this post, and frankly I don't care. You single handedly are ruining this board with your tired repetitious crying about being attacked. Over and over in thread after thread, you taske over with your lame agenda.

It's a shame, I was happy to see you back, but now I wish you would just disappear. You add noting to the board anymore, and that is a shame.

Sorry to everyone for this rant, but I've had enough of this garbage.

Then go away. We have been talking football, but guys like you always have to resort to crap posts like the one above.

Freaking sickening.

So your answer to the, "What will the QB situation be like in 2016-2017?" question is. . . "We should have drafted Bridgewater."

We all should have seen this coming.

Winston is a risk taker ... big time. He will throw a ball just to throw it, and that creates a lot of turnovers. He overvalues his arm, which is a solid arm, but he overestimates his own ability. He has a longer windup, as opposed to a really quick release. He is also subject to problems when pressured, and hemmed into the pocket, not able to move outside. He also holds the ball too long. He also has well publicized maturity issues. I have seen him compared to Roethlisberger, and I think that is a really appropriate comparison.

He is a guy who could easily throw 30 INT as a rookie, and then 30 TD the following year as he learns the NFL game. He is going to have problems until he knows what he doesn't know.

Never change.

You are a legend in your own twisted mind. Don't tell me what to do. And don't tell me what kind of a person I am while you play your, agree with me and your a good poster BS.
You don't know me, and to say that I always resort to something is just plain bull.

You got 7000 plus posts, and more than half of them are whining and demeaning people. Screw you.

Thanks.

Thanks for answering my questions, YTown.

The only thing I don't get is that you seem to have talked about in a negative fashion, but then compared him to Big Ben.

So, do you think he is worth drafting that high.....or not? I'm not messing w/you. Honest. I am just confused.

Thanks.

holy shit, i have really slowed my time at another browns forum due to the personal bickering in every thread-- this place is the exact same thing.

you people take talking about a professional football team way too personally.

Alright..........heck w/it. Let's move on to another thread. Thanks to those of you who actually contributed. It was good while it lasted.

I'd like clarification from one of the ref's on this.

How about you stay here, and only here, and we all move on to another thread?

Deal?

How about you stay here, and only here, and we all move on to another thread?

Deal?

Not sure why you bother and Not sure why he won't answer a simple question. perhaps it's because it may paint him into a corner. I'm pretty sure that's not what anyone meant by asking him.

I said, during his 1st year as a starter, that he would be a 1st overall pick. The thing that worries me about Winston is hos attitude and his off the field crap. Look at what we are going through with Manziel. That could be Winston. I am not saying it will be, but the concern is definitely there. He has been in serious trouble what .... 3 times in college. (that we know of) That worries me a great deal.

I have never doubted his talent. (and I don't believe that I have ever posted that I did) It is what goes on between his ears, both on and off the field, that I worry about. I would be scared to death that he will turn out like Manziel has so far .... but with his talent, I would probably take the chance if I has the chance to do so.

I am trying to make sense of this. Looking at problems aplenty in the present, especially with QB. On a thread asking me to crystal ball the future. All responses are going to be pure speculation. But we seem to be dwelling on the past, almost exclusively, and especially using the luxury of hindsight. Not sure anyone can argue the past. Can't change it. Can avoid repeating mistakes maybe…. I hope our efforts are in going forward.
Not picking sides. Just trying to see real merit in the process. Help me out with some good insights. Not picking sides, just trying to figure out what has been achieved for the time I put in.

If anybody would like to hear the context of Joe Thomas's remarks on Manziel and Gordon to Tony Grossi, you can hear the interview on the "Hey Tony Show". Click the 'Listen Live' for WKNR2 1540AM at 8AM today. Show runs from 8-9AM.

http://espncleveland.com/

Looking back is only helpful in terms of trying not to make the same mistakes.

What we have here are a few that won't let go of the past.

As for me, when it comes to QB for instance, we have what we have. The question becomes, what do we do now?

It's not simple, there is no clear cut answer that I can see.

Johnny Manziel
Josh McCown
Thad Lewis
Connor Shaw

McCown is the only guy with any real experience. I'm not sure I'd have gone for him but he's here now. Unless Johnny Manziel turns it around (always possible)Josh has to be the starter as things stand right this minute.

I'd be shocked if we had a shot at either of the top 2 QB's in the draft. I'm always afraid of putting up too much in trade for a guy that isn't the consensus star. Mariota reminds me too much of the situation surrounding RG3. Washington got bamboozled on that one. More importantly, I think they allowed themselves to be bamboozled not because RG was that good, but because he was the best available after Luck. I'd like to try and avoid that.

I'd also take a flyer on a guy in the later rounds. There are several guys that more knowledgeable posters than I am have brought up. Some of their arguments for those guys seem reasonable.

Having said that, what to do if Mariota falls to us at 12? Well, I take him.

Never said it was not revelant, but it the situation we are in. You are now dodging the question it seems because you realize there were no other options THIS offseason.

It's easy to go back to past drafts and say who you would take based on how they've performed between now and then. At the time though, our picks did make some level of sense.

In 2004 when we took Winslow over Roethlisberger we had just signed Jeff Garcia to a big deal and we NEEDED some weapons for him to throw the football to. Winslow was a very rare and elite talent, so I still don't regret taking him even though Roethlisberger has exceeded his expectations by miles.

In 2005 we were in a similar situation. Romeo Crennel just took over and we had just traded for Trent Dilfer. Taking Aaron Rogers at #3 overall (I think that's where we picked) might have been a stretch at that time (not many predicted he'd end up being as elite as he is) so taking Braylon Edwards again made sense seeing as we had almost no real weapons on the team. It's also worth noting that here in Cleveland Aaron Rogers wouldn't have been able to sit behind Brett Favre for THREE full seasons being groomed. Who knows if the guy would be where he's at now had we taken him....

I do agree with you though on Teddy Bridgewater. Taking him would have made a lot of sense. I was a fan of the Manziel pick, didn't realize his character issues ran so deep, can't believe our scouts and F/O staff didn't do there homework.

I get the frustration though.

We keep swinging and striking out on QB's while letting others slip through our fingers.

Does it make sense for us to just straight-up give up one of our firsts this year for a 1st next year and maybe net an additional 2nd or 3rd? Not sure what the value tradeoff is exactly but there's almost always a team willing to take that trade. It's something we don't need to shop hard until draft day but assuming we don't solve the QB sitch this year (I think we're mostly in agreement on this) we can continue to sift the FA market and again position ourselves in next year's draft. I know little about next year's potential class apart from Cardale Jones. Who would make a likely trade candidate? I would assume those teams that view themselves as either a few pieces away from a run or in particular need of this year's talent pool. But it's often a team you'd never expect. This requires patience and maturity but this seems to me a very solid potential strategy for us. Thoughts?

The quarterback worth trading up for is Jameis Winston (in my opinion anyway) and we probably would have to give up the #12, #19 and a 3rd round pick this year, along with a 1st round pick next year to move up and get him.

The only QB's in the league worth trading for (also my own personal opinion) that are REALISTIC options...

Kirk Cousins or possibly RGIII from Washington. (especially if Washington drafts Mariota at #5).
Sam Bradford from Philadelphia. (If the Eagles are guaranteed Mariota they would move Bradford for a 1st round pick).
Mike Glennon from Tampa Bay. (If they take Winston, they'll likely want to trade Glennon).

Is winston another Andrew Luck?

If you think he is, then yeah. sure, he'd be worth it.

I don't think I've read anything from respected sources that say he's the next Andrew Luck. So I wouldn't give all that for a chance to draft him.

Cousins had a couple of nice games,, But at this point, It kinda looks like Colt McCoy is a better option than him.

I'm not sure that RGIII will ever be good again. Lots of question marks there.

I could be wrong, but didn't Josh McCown beat out Mike Glennon in Tampa? We apparently got the winner of that battle.. Why would we go after the loser.

I'm not believing that the rumor of Bradford for Manziel and some picks is real. And I wouldn't like it if they were.

Actually, I think this question is what everyone should be answering. How would each of us individually addressed the QB issue this offseason?

Me personally... I hate hate hate the McCown signing and I wouldn't have done it.

I would have let Hoyer walk. 2015 was his chance to be the man and, although he started decently, his last few games before Manziel came in were horrible. Keeping him also divides the locker room.

BUT I agree that we needed a veteran QB on the roster and the pickings were a little slim. Looking at the options available, I likely would have gone after Matt Moore. A possible alternative would have be Ryan Mallett as I think he's got real potential and has a higher "floor" than Manziel.

I probably still sign Thad Lewis and let him and Shaw battle for the #3 job.

Once training camp hits, it's an open competition but I cross my damn fingers that Manziel begins to show up. If he does, I name him starter as soon as humanly possible and I stick with him, regardless of growing pains for at least 10 games.

If he doesn't show up, Matt Moore becomes the starter and Manziel goes immediately onto the trading block for anything I can get for him. Maybe another ham sandwich comes along. Moore gives us a chance in games and is young enough he can start next year as well as we draft a QB to groom to be the starter.

That's exactly what we should be discussing.. Waste of time to discuss history in this case. Anyone saying they'd have done this or done that... Great.. But it doesn't matter.

We find ourselves in this situation now. So NOW WHAT? is about the only thing we need to discuss.

whats done is done. Now were stuck thats what.

They did, this one. It's title is about the QB situation NEXT YEAR. We can sit around and pat ourselves on the back about the things we would have done differently over the last 17 years to not be in this position, but we are... so the logical thing is to talk about what we can/should do moving forward.

Whatever! My question is this, you are now in charge of the Cleveland Browns, What action(s)do you take to correct the QB situation?

Invent a time machine, draft Teddy Bridgewater... Done.

trade for brian hoyer lmao

I want to vote you off the island

really. i would trade for mallet. or hoyer but better mallet. wont happen but either or both should have been done in FA.

then i would take the best QB left on the draft board.

Winston is boom/bust. You don't put all your chips on boom/bust. Not in Cleveland in 2015. There is simply too much risk regardless of how talented he is. If he fell, that's a different story but he won't short or rape or a bong and frankly we'd be wise to let him drop as well in those scenarios.

All the other options are different versions of meh. There's just nothing viable or really appetizing.

So really the question is about next year (see thread title). Setting this year up so whatever meh we have at QB has every opportunity to succeed, improve the defense and the trenches etc and, most importantly, continue to position ourselves to strike when the opportunity IS presented. There is zero point in teeth gnashing over the lack of good options. Instead, you ready yourself to work what options you have and position yourself for future leverage.

I'm happy with going all in with Manziel as long as the kid is there all in with us! 3rd round or later investment...go bring one in - that has an arm...maybe that kid Mark Myers?

That is the key. if he isnt putting in the effort, you cut him. If he is focussed on football and showing the skills you want to see then you name him the starter and give him 99% of the reps. Its all or nothing at this point. If he is gonna be backup material, he isnt worth the headache.

Well said Mour.....I agree. At this point it makes no sense to just walk away from Manziel.

j/c:

A few thoughts:

--I think 10Years and tab came up w/an interesting idea of maybe trading away one of our first round picks for a first round pick in next year's draft. I am not saying that is a good idea, but it's interesting and a fresh take.

--I don't get how people want to ignore what happened less than a year ago. There is an old saying that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This is not even old history. Again, it happened less than a year ago and I believe that is sheds doubt on our FO's ability to evaluate QBs.

--It's real popular to throw Hoyer under the bus, but what is his record w/the Browns? Who has a better career record w/the Browns since our rebirth? So many of you argued w/me about Weeden, yet you were not willing to give Hoyer more time even though he performed better than Weeden. Weird.

--Thanks to those of you who have stuck to the topic. The rest of you..........you are who you are and I expect nothing less--or more--from you.

--The preoccupation w/only focusing on moving forward and NOT even thinking about the past is odd. I have asked questions that those same righteous posters have not answered, yet they get bent out of shape because I don't change the flow of the thread. Look, do you really think I am stupid? I know what you are doing. You don't want Farmer and company to receive any criticism at all, so you want us to all ignore what he did LESS than a year ago. You can ignore it, but I am NOT! Asking me to not even include passing on Teddy for Johnny is ludicrous. That is like asking me if I would lie in order to cover up an accusation that I stole something. Well, I would never have to lie because I would never steal anything. You simply cannot ignore history. If you want to.........fine, but don't get bent because I am won't play by your narrow-minded rules that are meant to deceive people. Just watch..........in a few years, there will be posters attributing the drafting of JM and Gilbert to Banner.