DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bradford Would Not Sign Extension w/Browns

Soooooo funny!

mac giving a thumbs down to his own post is my favorite post of all time..

full article


The anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) is one of the four ligaments that attach the upper leg to the lower leg, and prevent the knee from moving in directions knees shouldn’t move in. Bradford got lucky with the first tear, as it was only the ACL he damaged — the more tendons you mess up, the more complex the repair.


How do you hurt it?

A sudden change in direction, a hard landing, a direct blow or an awkward twist are all ways of tearing your ACL. In Bradford’s case, what appeared to be a fairly low-key hit from Cleveland’s Armonty Bryant seems to have put just enough force on the side of the knee to pop that shiny new ACL. The 2013 injury resulted from an awkward push/tackle from Carolina’s Mike Mitchell. Bradford’s left foot was planted, and the force of his body being pushed sideways by Mitchell resulted in a sickening sideways bend to his knee (remember, knees don’t like moving in new or unique directions).


Athletes, not surprisingly, are at higher risk of an ACL tear than the general public. Also not surprisingly, if you’ve torn your ACL once, you’re more likely to do it again, especially within the first year after the surgery. Even worse, revision ACL reconstructions are more likely to fail than primary reconstructions. Once Bradford has his knee fixed, the recovery clock will once again be reset, and may go longer than last time.

I agree Tab, being hit has nothing to do with having a tear. Its all on the way you land/step/stretch the tendons/muscles that counts. I have known people that have injured themselves simply golling over out of the bed the wrong way

Geez that was a love tap by NFL standards...

Question, are repaired ACL's stronger (after rehab time) than uninjured ACL's?

A friend I know wants Bradford very badly and as an argument to my comment about him being fragile, that's what he told me.

Seem strange... True or False..

Actually I believe that was at least partially answered in an article on the previous page in an article Scottplaymaker posted.

Agreed, it depends on strengthening. They use to (I don't know if it's still done) twist the tendon when replacing it, so actually the ligament was stronger than before.

I haven't seen how procedures are done the past few years, but reading the article. It seems as if it was fully healed (?) meaning it wasn't at 100%.

Also yes, stating he was barely touched and tore it...his knees are fragile/etc isn't completely true at all.. It easily could have been a freak tear not saying it was or wasn't, but it's possible). Like EO said about Baxter.....or how about Martan (sp) - the kicker from Tampa Bay that celebrated a field goal by jumping and tearing his ACL. It really doesn't take much.
Not that it makes the scenario any better, lol.

i've said over and over again that bradford coming here would ruin us.

Do some of y'all defending this guy even REMEMBER what division we play in?

this guy wouldn't last a slobber knocker match against the ravens or bengals. don't even mention the steelers. Harrison is STILL smacking people hard.

i guess it's not fair to bradford to call him that, but we don't need any punks standing behind the OL come division games.

it's true.

What? tab, I posted an article. Both sets of information about Bradford not wanting to sign an extension and the Browns not having a worthwhile QB were included in that article.

Once again, you ignored things because you got your dander up because the Browns were painted in a negative light. Whatever, but to act like I just said that he turned down our offer is wrong. Flat out wrong.

Bradford makes Joe Namath's knees look like gold. I still want him as our QB though. I am also insane...

j/c

The whole Rob Housler signing got me thinking...I'm just reading the situation and I am proposing a hypothetical not because of my enthusiasm for it but because its very much in keeping with indicators.

To be clear, I don't like the following proposition but I do think its possible.

1. With the signing of Housler most of the team's most pressing needs have been addressed.
2. Mariota would have to fall past Tenn at #2.
3. If Mariota is available at Washington's #5 the Eagles would trade Bradford and their second round pick at 20 (52 overall?) to the Browns for our #12.
4. Cleveland only does this deal on the condition that Bradford signs an extension. Contract nutz among us tell me how that would work please.
5. Cleveland has 19, 45, 53, etc and Bradford, McCown and Manziel.
6. Eagles go on and package 12 and 20 move to 5 and get Mariota.

We know the team has some inexplicable obsession with Bradford. His QB skills are markedly better than McCown. They can keep Manziel, mentor him under McCown and develop him at a more leisurely pace. If Bradford holds up we're more competitive right now which the organization continues to say is their objective. If he folds up we can go to McCown.

I would rather trade up for Mariota, the younger prospect that doesn't have knees made of paper mâché...

I understand your thinking. But I'm trying to anticipate the organizations thinking here. We know they covet Bradford regardless of how you or I feel about that. They haven't denied trying to get him nor have they denied bargaining with first round collateral. He is an experienced NFL QB with above average skills. We also acquire other draft assets. We still keep Manziel and can develop him slowly.

I like your thinking on his thinking and their thinking!...

LOL, Tony Grossi doesn't think much of my thinking...

Browns reportedly still weighing the risks and costs of quarterbacks Marcus Mariota or Sam Bradford
Apr 09, 2015 -- 6:00am


By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com




Photos/Getty

The Morning Kickoff …

Quarterback carousel: If you believe the Browns have one more quarterback move in their playbook, which one are you buying: Marcus Mariota or Sam Bradford?

Each carries enormous risk and huge investment.

One is a one-read, spread-option college quarterback who never called a play in a huddle.

The other is a snake-bitten NFL veteran who suffered ACL surgeries on his left knee twice in a 10-month span and has not played a full 16 games since the 2012 season, and is 18-30-1 as an NFL starter.

The Browns have added Josh McCown and Thad Lewis, and are poised to welcome back 2014 first-round draft pick Johnny Manziel from an undisclosed dependency treatment center. But national speculation persists that the Browns are plotting to add Mariota or Bradford and separate from Manziel.

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire?

Let’s examine the possibilities.

Marcus Mariota

Overview: Similar to Manziel one year ago, opinions on Mariota are all over the map. On Wednesday, respected NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock elevated Mariota to the top spot in his quarterback rankings, ahead of consensus No. 1 Jameis Winston of Florida State. Another NFL Network analyst, Brian Baldinger, projects Mariota dropping all the way to No. 20 in his mock draft. Mariota has been scrutinized closely by the teams holding the top two selections in the April 30 draft – Tampa Bay and Tennessee. Other possible interested teams are Washington (No. 5), the N.Y. Jets (No. 6), St. Louis (No. 10), San Diego (No. 17) and Philadelphia (No. 20).

Browns connection: Mariota was tutored to prepare for the NFL Combine and pre-draft process by Kevin O’Connell, who was an independent quarterback coach before being hired to be Browns quarterbacks coach in February. After joining the Browns, O’Connell supervised Mariota’s orchestrated pro day workout in Eugene, OR, on March 13. Because of O’Connell’s close relationship and familiarity with Mariota, coach Mike Pettine indicated the Browns may not work out Mariota privately. At the combine, Mariota’s eyes lit up when asked about rejoining O’Connell in Cleveland. “That would be an awesome opportunity. I'd love to play for the Browns,” he said.

The cost: It has been presumed that the only way for the Browns to guarantee acquiring Mariota would be to trade for Tennessee’s No. 2 selection. The cost of moving up from No. 12 probably would be three No. 1s – the Browns’ two first-round picks this year and their pick in 2016 – and possibly a second-round pick. But trading up to No. 2 would be dependent on Tampa Bay officially choosing Winston with the No. 1 pick.

The cost would decrease substantially if Mariota slipped past Tennessee at No. 2. The next team of interest would be Washington at No. 5. So for the Browns to leap-frog the Redskins, they would have to trade with Oakland for the No. 4 pick. Using the outdated draft trade value chart as a guide, the Browns would have to give up picks No. 12 and No. 19 for the Raiders’ No. 4 and other considerations.

If somehow Mariota dropped to the No. 6 spot, and the Jets were interested in trading down for extra picks, the cost would be in the vicinity of the Browns’ No. 12 and No. 43 (second-round) picks.

The risk: Mariota is a slam dunk in terms of work ethic, off-field character and “face of the franchise.” But he is a projection as an NFL winner because of the non-traditional offensive system he played in at Oregon. Many believe the learning curve as a traditional NFL quarterback in the pocket will keep him off the field for the first year. Rushing him in could retard, if not ruin, his pro potential, some analysts say.

Probability scale (1 to 10 with 10 being the best chance): Four.

Sam Bradford

Overview: Despite Bradford missing 25 games the past two seasons, Eagles coach Chip Kelly rocked the NFL on March 10 by trading quarterback Nick Foles, a 2015 fourth-round pick and a 2016 second-round pick to the St. Louis Rams for Bradford and a 2015 fifth-round pick. The blockbuster trade fueled speculation that Kelly’s ultimate goal was to “flip” Bradford for the purpose of winding up with Mariota, whom Kelly coached one year at Oregon and called “the best quarterback in the draft.” Kelly has denied it on the basis that he would never mortgage a draft to acquire one player – even one he loves.

Browns connection: At NFL owners meetings last month, Rams coach Jeff Fisher fairly confirmed reports that the Browns offered the No. 19 pick for Bradford. He said the Eagles’ trade offer appealed more because he wanted a veteran quarterback, Foles, to step in immediately as his starter. The Browns have persisted in pursuing Bradford, however. Kelly said on March 11 that he received a first-round offer for Bradford after acquiring him, but declined to identify the team. And this week, two Internet reports said the Browns talked to the Eagles about a swap for Bradford involving Manziel and a first-round pick.

The cost: On a video blog, Jason Cole of BleacherReport.com said the Eagles had no interest in Manziel. In order for Kelly to position himself to acquire Mariota, he would need at least the Browns’ No. 12 pick – and that still wouldn’t guarantee him the currency to land Mariota. Kelly probably would also want to recoup the 2016 second-round pick he gave to the Rams in the deal for Bradford.

The contract factor: Bradford has one more year left on his original rookie contract and is scheduled to make approximately $13 million in 2015. It has been reported that any team that trades for Bradford would want to negotiate a long-term deal; otherwise, Bradford could become a free agent in 2016. However, there has been no effort on the part of the Eagles or Bradford to secure a new deal. Both sides have incentive to wait. The Eagles want to make sure Bradford’s twice-repaired left knee can withstand 16 games. And Bradford wants to improve his value by posting big numbers in Kelly’s quarterback-friendly offense. Reports that Bradford wouldn’t be agreeable to signing a long-term deal with the Browns are not off base, but it’s for the same reason he won’t sign one with the Eagles. He wants to bet on himself for a possible bigger deal than he can get now.

The risk: Bradford’s injury history is a major concern. He had shoulder surgery in his final season at Oklahoma. In his second NFL season with the Rams, he missed six games with a high ankle sprain. He then missed nine games in 2013 with a torn left ACL and 16 in 2014 after tearing it again in a preseason game in Cleveland.

Probability scale (1 to 10 with 10 being the best chance): Two.

Low probability, I hope he's right on either of them.




Poor choice of wording there Tony!

because you got your dander up

Perceptions are weird...dander up? lol When I post I usually have a smile on my face - I rarely post with a Grrrr mentality...lol

All I'm saying is if the RAMS nixed the proposed trade right out of the gate due to a lack of QB...how does it go to the point that Bradford refuses to sign.

And further reports now with the Eagles (all by the way ALL ARE RUMORS) state that the stumbling block is money. Not that we are a terrible franchise that he doesn't want to play for...but that we are a franchise that is offering him a long term contract at half of what he is making. That is if we are to believe the rumors at all.

No Dander...just clarifying what I have read.

My point btw was not to point my finger at you and accuse...you asked a question about why would this even be true? Eagles trading Bradford to us.

Swish...i've said over and over again that bradford coming here would ruin us.

How could this ruin us? Hey if he can stay healthy we finally have THE GUY...here and guess what...if he doesn't and the worst happens...we are right where we were before...Looking for THE GUY.

Look in the past teams have played the run and crammed the box and them out of the box crammed close by - might as well go 46 on us and blitz from all different angles. Mostly to stop the run but with a D Game plan of ok QB of Browns choice beat us if you can...and they have never been able to.

Bradford has the ability to see the blitz recognize the hot reads - burn defenses who cram the box and say ok QB go ahead Beat us...cause he will. Soon what you will see is a different Game plan that we haven't seen...7 in the box and playing against the pass and telling the Browns...go ahead beat us with the Run!

Its not like our OL is a sieve. So we have to go Max and hit the hot reads. We would finally have a QB to turn this around. How is it remotely going to ruin us when the worst case scenario gets us back to where we were to begin with?

jmho

That was Gary Baxter another high priced free agent who did not pan out for us.

On March 2, 2005, Baxter signed a six-year, $30 million free agent contract with the Browns that included a $10.5 million signing bonus. His career with the Browns has been injury-plagued, including a torn pectoral muscle that caused him to miss 11 games during the 2005 season.

On October 22, 2006, Baxter's career was dealt a major blow when he tore the patella tendons in both knees during a game against the Denver Broncos. He is the first NFL player to suffer such an injury in 13 years.

On July 30, 2007, Baxter returned to practice, although in limited capacity. The recovery, which surprised and confounded many doctors close to Baxter, marked the first time that a player had returned to the field of play after such a devastating injury. On October 23, 2007, the Browns placed Baxter on injured reserve.

On August 9, 2008 he was released by the Browns.

??

Retard - verb - to slow down the development or progress of something.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retard

His use is LITERALLY the text book definition of the word.

I know the definition, but there are 100 other words less offensive and less open to someone getting emotional because of it.

We live in "emo America" lol..

Picks 12 and 20 are not enough to move up to pick 5.

Ok, I didn't consult the trade value chart. I believe it to be outdated anyway. What do you think it would take to move to 5?

I work for X County Board of Developmental Disabilities. Until a few years ago we were X County Board of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities. My agency is good at making superficial changes like this. They are abysmal at making substantive changes in how they treat people even with the least significant disabilities.
Until the DSM V was published the only clinically correct diagnoses were Mild to Profound MR. All that is changed now to Mild to Profound Intellectual Disability. Guess what? People are still offended.

My point is that intent does matter. There was a time when the word gay was routinely used simply to mean "happy". A lot of my favorite Jazz lyrics for the 40's use the word with this connotation. Today, it only means one thing. The loss of nuance is regrettable. Welcome to life in the 21st century.

My guess is that in order for the Eagles to trade up to the #2 pick, they would have to trade two first round picks this year, a second this year, and a 1st next year.

(I also think the trade value chart is outdated.)

Yes, to the #2 slot. But my scenario has them waiting till pick #5. What about the 5?

Something very similar.

Then luckily for me my hypothetical falls apart completely. Bradford is unwilling to sign an extension with Philly or anyone else which should be a deal breaker for the Browns. Even if Philly could get our 12 then your contending its not enough ammo to go up to 5.

I hope that's enough to prevent us from doing something desperate for Bradford.

Forget about the bad knees, just put SB in a motorized wheel chair and he will still be the best QB on the roster.
P.S.
I am not sure where the NFL stands on motorized wheel chairs.

pretty sure its your not allowed to hit him above the bottom of the wheels. should be good to go!!!!!!