DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bradford Would Not Sign Extension w/Browns

What about the $$$ with Bradford?

He won't sign cheap. He's making $13 million this year. Are we going to offer him another Mega Deal with all of his injury concerns?

Or we make a trade with no contract. If he plays well this year, a dozen teams want him. We're in a free agent battle. If he stinks, the whole deal is a bust.

Plus, McCown got a nice payday and he's on the books next year. We're talking $20 Million for McCown/Bradford this year, possibly more next year.

Hoyer 7-4 replaced by 1-10 McCown, you do the math

Hoyer was 7-6 last season.

Tampa Bay is the least talented team in the league.

How many games do you think Hoyer would of won with them last season?

We are not going 2-14. It's just not happening. I don't know if you secretly want it to happen? Or you're just trying to keep your expectations ridiculously low?

Wasn't Hoyer 7-6 last season and not 7-4? Yeah, at one point he was 7-4 but went on to lose 2 more. JF and Shaw accounted for the other 3 loses.

Still, it's better than 1-10 but I don't feel it's a fair comparison anyway. With our talent, (compared to TB), I think McCown might have done better than 1 win. At least he'd better now that he has the chance.

On the other hand, I think we lost 2 games by missed field goals. Easy field goals. So then I guess Hoyer would have been 9-4. But he wasn't.

It just goes to show how much the team, it is a team, depends on all the players. It's something that needs to be considered for McCown too.

Now I'm no big McCown fan. But I am hoping for his best. With our running game and WR's he should be better, win wise, than he was last year.

I have seen all the rumors about Bradford and it doesn't concern me. Bradford will sign if we win with him.

So to me the contract is secondary at this point Bradford is due around 12 million this year we can pay that and not break a sweat. If he doesn't make it thru the season uninjured then we move on and we are out a 1st. But a healthy Bradford is money in the bank and this team is playoff bound.

Bradford makes it thru the season the Browns have several options, they can sign him to a multi year deal with bonus money and guarantees or they can franchise him, but they have options. Say Bradford gets thru the season but misses a few games and they still aren't sold on his health issues then the franchise tag brings him back for an encore. If he gets thru the season in good health leads the team into the playoffs in good health what do you think he is worth and we have tons of cap space to get a deal done, will have 2 1st round picks in the 2016 draft and we become the team we dream of having.

The flip side is he becomes injured again and we are out the 1st round pick, but money no man we got money what we don't have is a franchise QB and a hope in hell of winning without one.

This isn't without risk but man oh man we are a top tier team with a healthy Bradford think about that? And think about all the other possible avenues available to us to get on the winning side of the ledger this year and next. This is a move to me with low risk -vs- a possible huge return. I do the deal and never look back good or bad because it makes sense. This team is ready to win, but the QB play will keep us solidly in the hole. This is a chance for us to change everything for this franchise all for the cost of a 1st round pick. We do this right we go from a bad team to a great team. We see a transformation like the one the Colts had the year they drafted Luck. And this is a way better team then the one they have in Indy minus Luck that is.

Everyone who is against this deal will be on board when the wins pile up. If Bradford stays in Philly he will likely get injured again Chip Kelly's offense is hard on O linemen and QB's Kelly brought in Bradford for trade bait IMO. Will see in a few days but if I am Farmer absent a deal for Bradford, I stay away from anything involving multiple 1st round picks for anybody at the top of this draft. The real value is Bradford IMO...I understand people not wanting the guy but I don't think they have thought it thru but hey thats just me.LOL

What was the Rams record with a healthy Bradford? If I recall they sucked. He has the skills, but has done nothing to earn the money he was given.

Uh, What?

Bradford was on a crap team with a crap OL and crap WR's who dropped balls like we did a couple of years ago.

Every throw Bradford made over 15 yards. This was posted on YouTube 2 years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLDkYravNA

... sorry, I don't know how to link a YouTube video into the thread.

I think we can win with Bradford.

I just don't believe he's a Top 5 QB just waiting to happen.

If we make the deal, I can get behind the idea of it.. I will just be super nervous all season that he'd suddenly be gone for the year..

I would be more open to giving up 19 for him if say we got a condition pick in return..

Say Philly conditionally gives us a 2016 1st.. If Bradford lasts the whole season, it drops to a 2nd, if we make the playoffs it becomes a 3rd.. Etc.. I doubt that'd happen though..

Thanks Dub for posting the video makes me want him MORE.

Guy I said when I started this thing I give Philly both our 1sts this year in return for Bradford we get their 1st next year and a 3rd or 4th this year. Its very do-able and Philly I don't believe will win with MM either way we now have 2, 1st round picks next season, just in case. If Bradford works out we spend the picks on offensive talent or pieces to push this team over the top, we are talking possible super bowl contention here folks this team is legit with Bradford, a healthy Bradford that is.

This is a good deal i do it all day and twice on Sunday.

Oh and Dub I stand corrected 7-6 it is.

Posted that video and a quite a bit of the same thoughts that have been posted over a month ago in the Bradford to eagles thread.


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Copy/paste of comments of the video

- (yes i know he plays in a dome) The throw at the 8:49 mark, wow nice.

- the first 11 mins, almost every throw is on target. With an under throw, receivers dropping the ball or wr slipping.

Just watching the washington game (around 13 mins). The Oline is getting him killed.


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really can't see how you blame Bradford in that video

I could probably stomach this deal. I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it but I could tolerate it. Your explanation helped. Bradford straight-up for pick 12, no contract extension and his injury risk? Unacceptable.

Deals of this magnitude are usually "sign-n-trade", are they not?

I agree a healthy Bradford is our best bet for 2015. And yes, we have cap room. I'm not sure that Haslam is interested in spending to the cap, though. I wish he was.

#19 is a fair price for Bradford as a player. I wouldn't be upset. His contract is tough. He's not signing for less than 4yr/$50 Million. He can afford to walk, or limp, away.

I think you and I are on the same page with team needs. Our roster is finally decent enough to zero-in on a QB. NT/WR/OG aren't going to fix our QB problems and we stink until we fix QB. I'd rather go after Mariota and focus on 2016. But, if we can't pull that off, I'd rather have Bradford than what we have.

I don't think most of you have thought this thru here is what i said about it yesterday. I think its better to run with Bradford current contract and this is why:


IJMHO but is it better to watch the season go down the tubes or overpay for a QB at the top of the draft that will take a season or 2 just to be ready to play or to take a risk with the potential for a great reward?

That's the question here it is:

Bradford when health is a top flight QB, so he is a risk but weigh it out against your other options

1- Move up in the draft and take MM, but that requires both 1st this year and next years #1 as well. MM will take a season more like 2 just to be ready to play. And if he doesn't work out your out a huge amount of talent in other areas of the team and for sure he is a developmental QB. He will take time to acclimate to the NFL. So this may be an upgrade but it will take time to get results.

2- Bradford who comes in ready to go with a team that is ready to go. He has a lengthy injury history, but when healthy he is franchise QB good.

3- Stay with what we have and watch this season and next go down the tubes because we got nothing.

Bradford will sign with us if we win and with him here and healthy we will win we bank a 1st for insurance in case he becomes injured again and his 12 million deal for this year is easy for us to handle, Will have the money to pay him if he does stay healthy and we aren't on the hook for signing bonus's or guaranteed money until he proves he can stay healthy.

If it comes to pass that he becomes injured we still have the #1 we banked from this year next year in combo with our 1st round pick next year should we need to make a move in next years draft, which BTW has a much better QB class coming out.

The worst we come out of this is down a 1st and thats it we have thrown away much more then that on QBs and not a one of them was worth the risk Bradford is, so while some of you poo poo the deal think about what a healthy Bradford would mean to this team this year and hopefully for years to come this IMO is our way out of our current situation (losing) and onto bigger and better things (winning).

So while it may be crazy it really is our best option, with the best possible upside.

I would be shocked beyond belief if we used either or both of our 1st round picks to get Bradford. It just doesn't make good sense. Unless of course you know for a fact that he'll remain healthy. And you can't know that.

Hell no nobody knows that and I wouldn't give up 2 1sts for Bradford either, what I would give up is both 1st this year for Bradford and the eagles 1st next season along with a 3rd or 4th round pick this year. Look in order to get MM the Eagles need more then the #19 and #20 pick and we would be far better off banking that pick just in case and to come away with a 3rd or 4th rounder that deal is doable we get a QB with risks but which one comes without risk point me at him?

Going up for MM is both 1st and likely next years 1st as well Bradford is a 1st and we are done, if he fails we don't feel the effects for years to come the same can't be said if MM fails. This is a good deal, a risky deal but a good deal the questions around Bradford are can he stay healthy, the risks with anyone else we might get is can they play, Bradford can play that is for damned sure.

But risk free deals don't exist and Bradford when healthy is a for sure thing.

This kind of deal has to have something in return for everyone involved. Acquiring the Brown's #19 isn't valuable enough to Philly to make that deal. They already own pick 20. From Philly's perspective the deal has to include the #12 or there's no reason to do it.

I can't imagine a scenario where the Brown's get Bradford and it didn't require our #12 in return. There's just no basis for a deal, if I'm the Eagles.

You are correct about risk free deals. No question and no argument from me on that.

I also agree that Bradford when healthy would be a major upgrade from just about anything we could get or have had. Again, no argument.

But there are two things about him that I don't like. His inability to stay healthy which of course is not his fault. It's just the way it is.

And two, his contract status. Big money this year, reports are he won't accept a deal for short money based on his history of injury. Couple that with it's possible that he's one year and done with us.

So, to that end, he'd have to agree to a long term deal, and we'd have to be able to get him for less than 2 firsts in trade.

I don't want to hear about their 1st next year. that team as won 10 games for two years in a row now, that puts their 1st down around 20 something.

Guard I can't tell you how many times I have kicked this deal around in my head. Philly I don't think can get a deal with #19 and #20 and I along with many others have been saying for some time it would be great to bank a pick for next year with a better QB class and multiple picks in that draft it gives us flexibility just like it gives us flexibility this year.

But lets look at it another way who wants to go into this season with what we got?

Who wants to give up both picks and next years #1 to get MM?

In my mind (and it is just me) Bradford makes to much sense, if Chip wants to mortgage the Eagles to the hilt let him go right ahead and do it.

If we stand pat this season will be ugly IMO. But if we get Bradford and he can manage to stay healthy we are a playoff team and we got 2 picks next year to spend how we choose or for a QB at that time.

Remember this though any deal or draft pick we make will come with risk the upside potential for Bradford is franchise altering and the risk is we lose out on yet another 1st round pick which we have done 3 times in the past what 7 years. The team is here that can win but without a QB hold onto your underwear we are going to get rocked yet again. And that includes if we draft MM who will need time.

There are a lot of things that need to fall into place for this deal to get done. Tenn has to want to move out and they would have to take the 3 1sts they would get this year, Philly would want to get MM and I think they do but they know that #19 and #20 can't get it done the target for them has always been MM I have to believe at this point its a game of chicken and we have to think a bit out of the box if we want to get Bradford which is a good deal for us if its structured the right way.

Read up Damon I covered all that.

What we got + #12 & #19

Or..

What we got + Bradford on IR

Which sounds better?

The key to all this IMO is you can't give up a ton to get Bradford and have the Eagles turn that into Mariotta. That means we could have turned it into Mariotta. I would love to have Bradford at the right price or I'd love to trade up for Mariotta.

In either case I keep Manziel and dream of Brees/Rivers situation.

If Bradford is that good why did the Rams give up on him?

I've been reading every post on this board. To me it seems that you're intent on getting a QB no matter the gamble or risk. Bradford is a HUGE health risk. Not slight, not medium, but HUGE! It's documented and proven. There's no question about it.

Winston is no Luck and even MM isn't as highly regarded as RG3 was at the time. We all saw how that panned out. You should always have a risk/reward factor in all football decisions. And in both cases, the risk far outweighs the reward.

Making moves out of total desperation ends up in a mess. You only need to look at what happened when Heckert/Holmgren used that philosophy trying to save their jobs.

History dictates your odds of having Bradford on IR during the 2015 season is extremely high. No thanks.

In the end, Philly will demand both of our number 1 picks to get Bradford, so they can have the ammo to get to number 2. This is just too high a price and I am a Bradford lover. I think we should go all out on MM. We have got to get a QB. This team is going NOWHERE without a competent one for the future.

I think its the kind of deal that can make the team way better and give us a legit shot at the playoffs and maybe more. But I understand for some folks they can't see turning lose their grip on 1st round picks, but I would remind you again that we have done so 3 times in the past 7 years and have come away with nothing. That doesn't mean I want to throw away picks it just means thats waht comes with the territory. But no risk no reward. And for us its a sure avenue to losing this season and most likely next.

I think we can protect Bradford and I think he makes our running game good enough to actually be the driving force behind our offense.

Many fans as you know Pitt have said we will be a hard nosed defense and we will pound the ball. But from an offensive stand point you will not know success being one dimensional, oh you can lean towards the run or towards the pass but if you let defenses sit on the run or sit on the pass they will own you. Bradford would be playing behind a line that will keep his jersey clean so the injury factor while not eliminated would be a whole lot less then it has been for him in the past. With JT manning his blind side this guy can take us places we have only dreamed about. But there is a risk and for us that is a 1st round pick.

I do the deal, but I fully understand why others think its a bad deal.

What I find funny is that the same folks that poo poo the deal are the same ones that worry we won't be able to sign him because the price will somehow be to high. With his risk of injury a year behind him assuming he makes it a year that will still be out there although to a lesser degree. But this line can protect Bradford and we can keep teams honest with the run Bradford just needs to make plays when we need him in ST Louis he was the team here we will give him an enviroment on the field that will allow him to stay healthy and to florish...

But I said this to Damon show me a no risk deal?

Uhhhh no we wouldn't give up both 12 & 19. Eagles would be lucky to get a first.

Best case for Eagles is Bradford and 20 for 12 & 19.

No way do I give up both 1st rounders for Bradford.

If i am going to take Bradford, then I would give up the 19th pick in exchange for Bradford and a conditional 2016 pick, that could be a 5th rounder if he starts 13 or more games, and elevate to a 2nd round pick if he starts 5 or less.

That is the only way I trade for Bradford.I want protection.

If the Browns protect Bradford well, and he has success and stays healthy, then I think that Cleveland could re-sign him. (no matter what he says now) If nothing else, the Browns could franchise him, which he probably would not want, because he would lose all injury protection.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the whole thing.

i think that very well could happen. i think the eagles would have to give another mid round draft pick or some players but.....

The eagles got Bradford for Foles and a couple of mid to late round picks, right?

Bradford has missed as many games as he's played, right? (close).

What makes the guy worth 1 first round pick, let alone TWO first round picks plus a later pick?

If the Browns do anything stupid (1 first round pick) to get Bradford, I may puke.

I put Bradford on the same level as Manziel - an unknown.

So, we have one unknown on our team - give John a season to see what he is. Why toss away 2 first round picks - or even 1 first round pick - for a guy that has a proven track record of: injury.

Sounds more reasonable than most scenario's but I wouldn't do unless they gave me their 3rd rd. pick, if they want Super Mario bad enough they will do it ...

farmer thinks he is. thats a confirmed fact that we offered a first for him.

Actually, this is a deal I could endorse. Let Philly give up #12, #19, and their first round in 2016 if they want MM.

We got rid of the 31st worst QB in the league and picked up the 32nd.

You know where Bradford is on that list? No where, because the dude is always hurt.

If Manziel doesn't pull through for us this year, we'll have another pathetic season like last year. Bradford to me is a huge gamble due to his fragility.

How are our WRs better than Tampa Bay's?

Yet, the facts say that we could start Johnny and win less than 2 games. We could start McCown and win less than 2 games.

Both guys have had seasons in the NFL where they have accounted for less than 2 wins.

Those are facts, but let's not those get in the way of Bone's very rational post.

I don't agree w/what a lot of what Bone says, but his post right before that crap you posted was very insightful. I encourage anyone who is open-minded to read it. It made a lot of sense.

I just think a lot of our differences exist because we value these two QB's far differently. I've viewed both of Bradford's ACL injuries and neither was due to being pancacked or hit hard. Neither was Hoyer's if you recall.

I simply believe the risk is "too great" with MM and with the health of Bradford. I do agree with you that there's always "some" risk involved, but mitigating those risks is critical. The lack of doing such has gotten us in the predicament we are in now. I do not wish to add injury to insult in that department.

We also disagree on the timeline aspect of things. You look at a timeline of "this season". While that is a short term timeline, let's look at the longer timeline. If for example we trade a first rounder for Bradford, the odds of gaining a trade for a future first rounder for next season is far less. If, as I fear Bradford's injury history continues, we end up with a QB that doesn't help us and little chance for the draft picks we need to move up next season. We have an injury riddled QB and the exact same scenario we currently have at the QB position.

If we draft MM, most knows he'll take at least a season to adjust to the NFL game. So if two years from now it's found he doesn't make that adjustment we are back at square one two years removed from where we are now.

I know people don't like looking ahead in the draft, but it does appear that next years QB class will be better. Sometimes patience is a virtue. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of entering this season with JFF and McCown.

But if you are correct and we suck eggs this year with those QB's and we can work a trade for an additional 1st rounder next year, I like those odds better than either the oft injured Bradford or MM.

just what do you think is going to happen if we show no improvement this year?

And I fully understand your thinking and believe me I thought the same way. At this point I have talked myself fully into the deal because the timing is right and the deal IMO is just to good to turn down. I think MM is out a year at least and most likely it takes us 2 years before we see any benefit and as you said that still comes with a huge question mark and and even bigger investment. The cost I associate with MM is 2 1st rounders this year and next years 1st rounder as well 3 in total, and 2 seasons of more losing thats important too.

But before I go any further let me ask a question OK.

A few years back one of the all time greats of the game had a career threatening injury in fact it knocked him out of the game for better then a full season and involved him having major surgery on his neck of all places. You know who that guy is based on your thinking and this is what convinced me would you have signed that player to a huge contract with a huge bonus and guaranteed money. In fact I think his deal was something in the range of 5 years and 90 million dollars I may be off I'm running on memery and I'm old so forgive me. But you wouldn't have done that deal?

Bradford is cut from that same cloth bro he can throw a laser then on the next play throw a ball 40 yards down the field and drop it on a dime and his pocket awareness his uncanny and he is fearless his pre and post snap reads are flawless and with weapons and an Oline he is as close to unstoppable as any QB to ever say hut hut. Without injury you NEVER get a shot at these guys he has that big of an upside.

Nothing in this draft or in next years draft touches his potential. We will almost never get a shot at a guy with his upside his gifts are that rare, and yes he has a lengthy injury legacy, but man oh man in the right situation where he is well protected he is your A ticket to uncharted adventure.

Or as you say we can stay the course with what we have try to move off one of our 1st round picks this year and take our beating this season and pick at or near the top of the draft next season and get our QB then.

There is a very real chance that if we do that we will lose Mack and we could see everything once again fall apart????

There seems to be some confusion about what I purpose so I want to clear that up.

We get Bradford along with Phillies #1 pick in 2016 along with a 3rd or 4th rounder this year.

They get our #19 and our #12 this year.

Oh and thanks Vers and I feel the same about you....

Oh Pitt I just looked it was 5 years 96 Million 18 million year one the next 2 years becomes fully guaranteed at 20 million per year if he passes an exam of his neck, if his neck is found to be sound he is guaranteed an additional 40 million even if he should have a career ending injury to some other area of his body.

Risk with a huge reward, its the same with Bradford but Bradford isn't as well established but he isn't as old either.