DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Questioning the Plan...

Well I have to admit that I really do not see any attempt to address the obvious needs for this team.

Needs

WR
TE
QB

Parker was passed upon yesterday
Williams and Warford would have been an upgrade.
Jalen Strong could have helped this team.
I was intrigued by Conley.

The Browns gave up a 5th to move up to Pick Cooper.

Aside from Johnson, who will compete with West and Crow, the playmakers have been ignored.

Stopping the run and rushing the passer were two of their biggest needs and both were addressed. They addressed their defensive needs instead of offensive, that's all. They spent a 1st on Manziel, brought in Hartline and Bowe, and see Housler as a healthier Jordan Cameron. Their D needs were more pressing during the draft.

TE? I am fine with Drey and Barnidge and the other kid we signed out of AZ supposed to be an athlete with good hands.

WR We did sign Bowe and Hartline and I love Gabriel and Hawkins is also a pretty competent receiver.

QB we drafted him last year in Johnny. You didnt think we were gonna give up on a guy we spent a first and third on in just 7 quarters did ya?

I have to agree. There was talent at the skill positions on the board and we passed them up. Our division is getting stronger yet we stay the same. I just don't understand. Besides Shelton, we have nothing to write home about. No one on our team scares opposing defenses. Is Farmer trying to build the '92 Eagles?! All defense, no offense? Teams that win usually have balance on both sides of the ball. Sorry to say, so Far I see nothing to indicate we will finally rise from the depths of the AFC North basement.

j/c

Tony Lippett is still on the board.

Well, look, the Browns are going to be a run based offense. They have a lot of talent at RB with Crowell, West and Johnson. They have a lot of talent on their offensive line. I hate to tell you guys this, but the offense is going to be based off a lot of running.

I would like to see a bigger red zone threat at WR. I think Bowe can be productive there, but I'd like to see one more guy. Other than that, I guess I've accepted what this offense is going to be and embraced the advantages of it.

Stats from 2014

Scoring...

Browns Offense 27th.
Browns Defense 9th.

Exactly. You can't shut everyone out. Yes, the Browns will be better defensively. That just means they won't lose by double digits. You NEED offensive talent to KEEP THE DEFENSE OFF THE FIELD. Tougher schedule, no real offensive playmakers is a recipe for another last place finish. Hopefully Haslam is patient with Farmer and Pettine. And Farmer better get a damn clue about how to draft offensive players in 2016. Or it will be his last season in Cleveland.

Darren Waller is my guy.

You mean the QB that just spent 2 1/2 months in rehab?

I think the Browns went into the draft trying to improve three areas.....

1. Stopping the run (wwe were dead last in this area). This was our biggest need on defense.

2. Improving our run game. (I thought we were decent here last year, but apparently they weren't satisfied)

3. Pressure on the QB

Now I don't like all the picks, but if they drafted well and did improve these three areas then we are a much better football team. I know some of us like to view ourselves as "scouts" but the truth is we are not. Neither myself nor anyone else on this board is qualified to give an NFL scouting report on a player.

What we can do is judge direction and planning as you have alluded to. I like the plan much better than giving up an entire draft for a gamble like Mariota, or panicking into taking the 3rd best WR at 12......wwho would have been the 6th WR taken in last year's deep WR draft.

They may have totally bombed the picks, because I don't trust their ability to judge talent yet, but I feel much more comfortable that they actually have a plan than I did two days ago.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

I wanted a WR early on, but I understand their philosophy.

We will be much stronger on both lines next year. We added a OL who will hopefully upgrade a position on the OL. We took a NT to help the run defense, which was a dire need. We also took a DE and an OLB/Pass rusher to help bring pressure on the oppossing QB. We added a RB who is supposed to be a very useful guy in both running the ball and as a receiver.

Plus we still have 5 picks left tomorrow.

I think that the plan is to make this a stronger, more powerful team, and to add speed. We may add a receiver tomorrow, and that would not surprise me. TE is not a need in any way, shape, or form. We have a very nice rotation there. We could use a guy like Antonio Brown at WR, so maybe we'll find that guy in the 4th or 6th where we have numerous picks.

I don't know if there is a starting QB in this draft after Winston. I liked, and would have taken a chance on Mannion, but once he was off the board, there is no one else who interests me. We already have to develop a spread QB in Manziel, I don't see any need to also add a read option guy to the puzzle as well.

I like what Farmer has done so far. He has also added picks that allowed him to move back into the 3rd to get our final pick of the day.

All of the guys we drafted seem to fit. That is so important. I suspect that Pettine had more of an influence in this draft than in his 1st season. We got a lot of players who look like "his kind of players".

I like this draft so far. Tomorrow has a chance to make me really love it.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Ravens and Steelers made a living with a strong defense and running the football. How do you explain Seattle last two years? Receivers?

Browns can have the strongest OL and DL fronts in the league. Both are built with a strong next-man-up capability.

Do you remember Hillis? How about Lynch? They are a one man show. Browns have three different types of RBs. Instead of teams daring Browns to the throw the ball. They can now say you better have 8 in the box. Receiving corp will feast on single coverage. The run game ain't dead it is simply forgotten.

Honestly, it doesn't matter who the QB is. EVERY defense is going to load the box and make whoever it is make plays. If not, lots of 3 and outs and a tired defense that plays tough for 3 quarters but gets gassed. I understand the Browns are going to pound the rock, but they will more than likely run into a lot of walls. You still have to have play makers in the passing game to possess the ball.

On a side note, viewing Bowe as a red zone asset is a joke. Dude had ZERO TDs last year and I'm pretty sure KC has more offensive talent than the Browns. And Alex Smith is better than anything on our roster any day of the week.

Another loaded draft at WR and Farmer does nothing. Genius.

NO Kansas City WR had a TD last year.

So we blame all that on Bowe?

My riff with the draft is...Seems like some of our picks are slight reaches, and perhaps Farmer again overreacting and pulling the gun early (Xavier Cooper)

Can't believed we passed on Max Williams...Loved Jaelen Strong as well, but I'm thinking his wrist was flagged in medicals...I don't understand why we need 10 Dlineman on a 3 man front...

I don't dislike Duke Johnson I actually like him...But thought Crow showed well and West was alright...

Hopefully tomorrow we address TE,WR,QB,OT or C,S...still need a FB and PR too...still need alot

2 and half months dedicated to getting his mind right. He will get his shot. If he fails we will turn to someone else but he was always gonna get more than 7 quarters of football to prove himself.

I wanted Parker cause he brought an element we lacked in the big receiver that was a redzone demon but I am ok with what we have at receiver. If the run game is clicking and Johnny is average, we are a playoff team. I think the defense is gonna be there and keep us in every game.

quotes


Here's most of your answer about the draft so far.

Pittsburgh 612 passing attempts 4825 yards
423 rushing attempts 1752 yards

Baltimore 554 passing attempts 3819 yards
448 rushing attempts 2019 yards

Cleveland 477 rushing attempts 1728 yards
502 passing attempts 3465 yards

Pittsburgh DEFINITELY not making a living running the ball. I'll give you Baltimore but no one in Cleveland is scaring pass defenses. You can't say that about Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Well, you can, but you'd be out of your mind. Defending the Browns will be simple this fall. Load the box and make the QB make plays. Good luck Josh. Or Johnny.

Duke was the best player on the board. I love Crow and West but this just adds some red pepper to the chili. I would have gone another direction but no one should believe that this wasnt a fantastic pick cause it was. Fantastic vision and he has some of the best feet i have seen on any back.

I don't know how anyone that is charged with building a team can make such a nonsense statement.

Teams are built for balance. While they may favor offense or defense, pass or run, they do not ignore any part of the game.

Doing so makes a team one dimensional and easier to defeat.

Apparently, Farmer thinks our receivers lack of production was a result of poor quarterbacking. They did get open more last year than I remember in the past. Maybe Hoyer was awful and our amazing receivers made him look respectable (disclaimer: I really don't believe this).

I'd still like a big target, but our receivers are better than they get credit for.

So you believe Hoyer was good and our receivers were awful?

Because I really don't believe that either. They both were the problem and Farmer corrected part of it, at least. Adding Bowe and Hartline really did upgrade the group to respectable. It's not like last year where the Browns trotted out Hawkins and Benjamin as their starting outside WR.

Seattle 525 rushing attempts 2762 yards
454 passing attempts 3492 yard

Dallas 508 rushing attempts 2354 yards
476 passing attempts 4008 yard

Maybe Steelers and Ravens should stick with their original plan if they want another shot.

This is the depth chart as I see it right now:

Offense (25/26)

QB: {avert your eyes}
RB: West, Crowell, Johnson (this could easily end up in any order)
FB: open spot, Glenn Winston
WR: Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, open spot, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE: open spot, Dray, Housler, Barnidge
OL: Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Erving, Schwartz, Bowie, open spot, Seymour/Painter


Defense (25)

NT: Taylor, Shelton, Kitchen
DE: D. Bryant, J. Hughes, R. Starks, B. Winn, X. Cooper
LOLB: Kruger, A. Bryant
SILB: Dansby, open spot, Carder
WILB: Robertson, Kirksey
ROLB: Orchard, Mingo
CB: Haden, T. Williams, K. Williams, Gilbert, Desir
FS: Gipson, Poyer
SS: Whitner, Bademosi

Specialists: (3)

K
P
LS

The only potential spots I see left on the roster are 1 FB, 1 WR, 1 TE, and 1 ILB... maybe 1 interior OL.

TEs still available that I like: O'Leary (3rd round), Heuerman (3), Shafaat (6), Derby (6)
WRs: Greene (2), Harper (3), Lippett (3), Hardy (3), R. Hall (3), T. Davis (4), Hill (4), Diggs (4), Goodley (4), D. Lewis (5), Worthy (6), Sasser (6)


I bet they had 2nd round grades on all three guys they drafted today.

We still have 2 4s, 2 6s, and a 7.I bet we take a WR and a TE with our 4s, and do one more trade up for another player we like.

This is shaping up to be a really good draft IMO.

Thanks for the depth chart. Makes it easier to envision.

It does make the draft look pretty good.

I wonder if we might run some 2 back with Duke and West, Duke and Crow, or West and Crow as the 2 in the backfield together.

Maybe we won't use a traditional FB?

I think that we only go with 4 TE if we do not keep a FB. I cannot see 4 TE and even 1 FB, let alone 2. I do think that Winston will slot in at RB, though he may have a hard time making the team with the top 3 at the position, plus Draughn, who the team really seemed to like when they added him last year.

I think that we may add another OLB, and I also think that Solomon will get a long look at OLB this year. He came on and played so well late last year that I think he'll get a chance. I don't know if he might be able to swing between ILB and OLB.I really don't now his background all that well.

It is surprising how many spots are pretty well set though.

Lets take a look at the obvious plan by positions set and with depth

QB - Manziel, McCown, and Lewis - Still the most pressing need. The best case scenario is for Manziel to show dramatic improvement. Until this position gets fixed the entire team will suffer.

RB - Crowell, West, Winston, and now Johnson. This position is young and somewhat unproven but has talent and depth. Need a true blocking fullback.

TE - Dray, Barnedge, and Housler. Will not set the world on fire but is not a problem area either. Solid group but no real homerun hitters.

WR - Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, Gabriel, and Benjamin. Gordon (out for 2015). Without Gordon not game breakers but just like the tight end position solid group but will no real homerun hitters.

OL - Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Schwartz, Bowie, and now Erving. This group is set with very good top end talent and depth.

DL - Bryant, Taylor, Hughes, Starks, Winn, Kitchen, and now with Shelton and Cooper. This group is set with talent and depth. Not as good top end talent as the OLine but more depth. Will probably make a trade in August cut down time for a 2016 draft pick by someone made expendable because the team will not keep 8 DLineman on the final 53.

OLB - Kruger, Mingo, Bryant, and now Orchard. Decent group and enough depth for a rotation to keep players fresh.

ILB - Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey, and Carder. Decent group with 3 starter caliber players. Could use another player here for depth.

CB - Haden, T. Williams, Gilbert, K Williams, and Desir. Very solid group at corner. If Gilbert starts to live up to his potential a spectacular group.

S - Whitner, Gipson, Poyer, and Bademosi. Good starters but could use another player here for depth.

It looks to me that the foundation that Pettine and Farmer are building is win in the trenches first and foremost with both lines looking to be set. Then limit the opposition with good pass defense. The missing piece for this team going forward is to find a QB and then play makers.

I would guess that if the team that has been built so far with a good OLine and Running backs on offense. A good DLine, Linebackers, and secondary forms a strong defense. Then after next season they will use the salary cap and draft picks to find a QB and skill players on the outside.

I think the last 2 days were all about solidifying the foundation. Next season will be all about proving that the foundation is in fact in place and can Johnny Manziel be the QB or will they need to go all in on another signal caller.

Nice work Steve!

Do you think they need a FB or Hybrid TE?

Any thoughts Farmer drafting a free safety?

All I can say is that I am terribly disappointed in this draft. I hope I am dead wrong and I apologize for saying, "Screw Farmer and the FO!"

As much as I want to cut my ties with this team, I just can't. I really love and care about the Cleveland Browns ,the fans and all who are on this board regardless of what you may think of me. It is so painful to watch my "perceived" thinking that incompetence reigns in the Front Office and ownership. It truly saddens me.

Heuerman was taken by Denver at 92

NRTU

I'm amazed at the negativity when we haven't even watched these young guys play a down for the Browns.

I'll trust Farmer and the FO because, in all honesty, they know what they are doing and I am just a draftnik.

Like many others have said, if we had build the lines this way from the off in 1999 we wouldnt have had the barren spell we have suffered as a team and fans. You win by foundation, then you add the furnishings and flashy touches. We will run the ball. We will (hopefully) be better at stopping the run and we will control games more as a result.

Also the criticism of the the Erving pick amuses me most. If he graded BPA and we took him, then that's smart. JT, legend that he is, is not getting younger. Mack may or may not stick. I recall so many drafts hoping the day 2 OL would pan out and none ever did and our QBs were battered and our running backs didn't make 1000 yards.

This is the right way. Time will tell if the selections were correct.

J

Names added in parenthesis

#12 Shelton - The Browns ranked 32nd out of 32 teams at run defense in 2014. While I liked Brown better, I like this pick. I wish they had gone with Parker and taken Brown with the #19, but then we wouldn't have taken...

#19 Erving - Another huge problem in 2014 was lack of depth at OL, specifically C. Once Mack went down, the OL suffered greatly. Erving's versatility means he can 1) challenge for a starting role, 2) serve as, or force a current starter into an improved 6th lineman, 3) provide instant backup at C, and 4) be able to step in as C if/when Mack leaves after the season.

#43 traded for #51 Orchard - It's always hard to project players from smaller college programs into the NFL, but I really like this kid, and so do many real scouts. And it addressed another glaring need for pass rush, although again WR might have been a better way to go.

#77 Johnson - I have heard that the Browns were set to take Conley, but the Chiefs took him at #76. After Conley, I think there was a drop off at WR, so they went BPA. Johnson adds to the Baby Backs and offers improved hands at the position.

#96 trade up for Cooper - using accumulated picks to climb back into the 3rd to again fortify the defensive line. I like Cooper and this is a good value, but I am more nervous about WR than Dline at this point.

Overall I think they have done a good job of foundation drafting at this point. Lack of WR bothers me, but we still have 5 more picks.

Scott Solomon is in the mix as well.

I really Like this draft. If you compare past drafts with this one, you can see that we are drafting just good solid football players. Whereas in the past it seemed we would just pluck out a guy who seemed flashy whether he fit our team or not. That was the problem. Now we seem to be settling in on just build the foundation and just get good football players, you can add flash later on when your ready. Good Job.

I could be mistaken but I suspect that the average age of the posters who like this draft is relatively older and the average age of posters who hate this draft is relatively young.

On WR, Bowe/Hartline aren't the greatest. But in terms of 2015, I think they'll contribute more than typical rookies would. A bit "safer" as 2015 starters. I see them as free draft picks for "need", but we definitely do need to start developing some better wideouts.

TE/QB few options. In terms of 2015, Not many TEs come out of the draft NFL ready. Maybe we draft a project TE and look towards free agency next year.

I'm not concerned about drafting for 2015. I am questioning some of the guys they gutted this offseason and it appears we may do the same next year (Taylor, Winn, Mack).