DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued

im not sure i agree 100% on this.

having as much money as he does, he can afford himself the best treatment possible.

he has the luxury of picking up and moving out of downtown, to the suburbs, to avoid any additional pressures that may lead him to falling off the wagon.



the same isnt necessarily true for some poor person in akron who goes to what ever treatment facility they can, and then goes back to the same living conditions/location/etc that they found themselves in before.





im not saying he WILL succeed with certainty, but i do feel he has some things working in his favor that not everyone does.

JOHNNY FOOTBALL!

Our QB for the next 16 games (or until he gets hurt).

Optimistic Browns fans? Why?
When we get a REAL QB and maybe a decent WR over 5'-2" tall, I'm all in.

An obvious typo there, SuperBrown. I'm sure you meant 6'2"...

We have someone that can catch beside the midgets Gabriel and Hawkins? Hartline and Bowe are over 6' but they will not keep offensive coordinators up at night. And this makes no difference until we have a QB to actually get the ball to them instead of being "FLIPPER!"

Now you're just being...wait for it ( )..."flippant".

no. josh mccown is flippant.

And if they don't, guys like you will still not say anything bad about Farmer and continue to rip guys who question him.

You are so freaking annoying.

Open minded? Are you freaking kidding me? Did you read the first two posts that Pit responded to?

You call that open-minded?

It is actually just the opposite of open-minded. They were close-minded posts designed to gang up on anyone who doesn't agree w/the majority.

It is so hard to post here because of the mob mentality. You seriously are going to get on Pit after those two piece-of-crap posts that are as far away from being open-minded as one could get????

Seriously?

I haven't seen anything wrong with anybody's posts. They are, after all, opinions.

Mob mentality? I don't see that either.

How am I "getting on Pit"? I'm saying people at both ends of the spectrum should be more open-minded.

Hypocritical much?

That about seals it.

Yep.

However, some of us also see what happened last year, and how the team improved in a great number of ways. We see how positions of dire need, WR, RB, ILB, turned into positions of strength for the team. We see how the defense improved as far as passing allowed, grabbing INT, and points allowed. (where we improved from allowing 406 points in 2013, to allowing only 337 in 2014) Unfortunately, we did not improve in our own scoring. We scored 308 points on offense(with 5 TD on special teams or defense) in 2013, and only 299 in 2014. (with 3 TD on special teams and defense) The offense really let this team down last year.

So, this off-season, the Browns have built on their strengths, and improved weaknesses. They added parts to their defense, a team strength, to make it even better. They worked to improve their run defense, which was horrible last year. They worked to improve their run game by adding a RB in the Duke, Cameron Erving, who I did not really want, but I see the reasoning, and they also added guys like Telfer, who was considered by some to be one of the better blocking TE in the draft, and Malcolm Johnson, who gives Flip a guy he wanted, a versatile offensive player, who can run, catch, and block, like the Raiders had in Marcel Reese.

Looking at the team, how do we look compared to last year? (and granted, it is still early in the off-season)

QB: Hard to say
RB: Improved
FB: Improved
TE: Improved
WR: At least even, and probably improved
OL: Improved
DL: improved
LB: Improved
DB: Improved
PK: Even
P: Even
LS: Even

I look for areas in which we may have regressed. The only one I can even remotely come up with is QB, but that is debatable. Maybe we did, but then again, maybe Manziel grabs the job, or maybe McCown plays well being back in a run heavy WCO style offense like the one he played so well in back in Chicago. I am cautiously optimistic regarding this position, but I am not blind. We are not going to win because we have great QB play. At best, we will win because we have careful QB play.

I also think that we will have both sides of the ball on the same page this year, with all of the coaches on the same overall page. I think that will prove to be important.

I am excited to see what the year brings. I see so many areas where we should be improved, over the improvements we showed last year. QB will obviously be the biggest potential issue, but with just average type careful QB play, I think that this team can be a 9 win team. (for the record, I picked us to go 6-9-1 last year)

I'd say it's arguable we regressed at corner and linebacker with Skrine and Sheard leaving. I'm not sure I can say that Housler + Telfer is keeping pace with half a season of Jordan Cameron either. JMO.

Fullback too. We don't even know if any of the guys we have can play the position.

Who did we have who could play the position last year?

Exactly. Both were/are unknowns.

How can a position be improved if we don't even know who is going to play to the position?

If we don't have anyone to play the position.. even a Chihuahua would be an improvement...

I understand the optimism, I mean this is easily the most talented team the Browns will field since the return.

But lack of talent at the QB position will drag this team down to the bottom and whats worse IMO is the talent that is here, is ready to go NOW.

The only thing that would make anyone think that McCown/Johnny have a shot is wishful thinking and not much else. We aren't just lacking talent here at QB we actually have nothing. Its so bad that if we had NO QB I don't think it would be any worse.

Its so bad that (lets be honest here OK) the Browns burned off a 1st round pick so they can lesson the blow of Mack leaving. Believe it or not drafting Erving tells us a lot about where management sees this team. Now we can deny these things but they are still there. Yes Erving can play all along the line but the scouts all thought that he was near or at Pro Bowl level as a center.

I think Gilbert has a great shot at being a great player he flashed last season and he certainly has the talent to be a great corner, on the other end of the spectrum we have Johnny and I saw NOTHING. I feel certain he will show improvement this year I mean he couldn't have been worse last year and there is always a chance, but the odds are stacked against it heavily. And team can't win without a QB consistently in the NFL.

I view this season and next as throw away, this season we lose which gets us a QB in the draft and next season we lose while the drafted QB gets experience. So when you look at the Browns you have to look out 3 years from now. Where will we be then? Who will come and who will go over that time, and when we finally have the QB we need what will the rest of the team look like?

When I look at this team I see winning when I look at the QB position I see losing and I think the lack of talent at QB will trump the talent the rest of the team has. Its the reason I pushed so hard and I think management pushed hard to to get Bradford. Not getting that deal means 2 more years of pain. Now we could have gotten Bradford and still been dealt pain, but for sure IMO without him we have no shot. Miracles do happen, you never know but man you have to totally wipe out what we saw from McCown and Johnny last year to be optimistic about this team.

Now I know that anytime lately that someone offers an opinion that interferes with the kool aid buzz is belittled as not being a fan.

I agree we are better but we are lacking at the most critical position on the team and until that changes losing is in our future.

This is NOT a knock on management BTW either I believe they did what they could with very limited options. I would have resigned Hoyer and I think not doing that did downgrade the QB spot. But if we were to truly upgrade the position in next years draft we have to take our knocks this year. I believe that is their thinking at this point while I hardly endorse losing its the only avenue we have available.

I think we are a 2-14 team, I think the QB play will be so bad it will limit the effectiveness of our running game, and Farmer was right its better to take a WR down in the draft and develop them then it would be at this point in time to draft someone and have no one to throw them the ball from the top of the draft. That and the fact that I think teams are going to do a reversal on top picks for WR's. There are so many of them now there really is NO need to take one at the top of your draft board.

I pray we keep things together after this year, I think Flip will be a casualty and it won't be his fault we are just so lacking at QB there just won't be much he can do...

Looking at this, it seems we should improve on last year's record. And not necessarily by just a little, but significantly as seeing several of our losses were close.

I just do not see us matching 7-9, letting alone improving on it. I would love to have a winning record. I really would. It just doesn't mean I think we will have one.

Pit, you need to loosen your shorts a bit.. It's called having fun, joking around, pulling of the legs, etc.

Relax

Malcolm Johnson will be our FB this year, and I think that he will be a huge upgrade.

I think that we have a more difficult schedule this year, but that we will still improve to 9 wins.

Just my opinion but...

QB: Hard to say Do we get Chicago McCown or TB McCown? Even if Manziel does manage to turn his life around, will he be able to stay healthy for more thn a few games?

RB: Improved! The Duke might just regulate West to a change of pace role.

FB: Definately not sure here. The FB candiddates are...
.....Jim Dray, played a TE/FB/HB role for the Cards. A good blocker, but I don't think he is the pass catcher out of the backfield we are looking for. He isn't gonna break anything.
.....Malcom Johnson really good hands and built for the role. Has played both TE and WR but he doesn't have great speed.
...Mark Weisman this ex Iowa RB reminds me of Peyton Hillis when he runs. Big and Athletic, but saw very few passes come his way. Who ever get's the job will need to be able to catch out of the backfield.
...De’Marieya Nelson versatile player that played offense, defense, special teams and multiple positions. Actually played RB and FS in high school. Probably the best reciever in the group but is very raw and unpolished. He bounced around positions so much in college, he hasn't perfected any of them.
TE: Definately not Improved. There is potential here, but nobody is gonna come close to Cameron Jordan production year 1.
WR: At least even, and probably improved. Agreed.
OL: Improved. Having that 6th man is going to make a huge difference.
DL: improved. Probably most improved.
LB: Outside improved. Inside will depend on Pullard Hayes
DB: Improved, Deep and will be exciting this year.
PK: Even
P: Even
LS: Even and that is a bad thing. We need a better LS.

"FB: Definately not sure here. The FB candiddates are...
.....Jim Dray, played a TE/FB/HB role for the Cards. A good blocker, but I don't think he is the pass catcher out of the backfield we are looking for. He isn't gonna break anything.
.....Malcom Johnson really good hands and built for the role. Has played both TE and WR but he doesn't have great speed.
...Mark Weisman this ex Iowa RB reminds me of Peyton Hillis when he runs. Big and Athletic, but saw very few passes come his way. Who ever get's the job will need to be able to catch out of the backfield.
...De’Marieya Nelson versatile player that played offense, defense, special teams and multiple positions. Actually played RB and FS in high school. Probably the best reciever in the group but is very raw and unpolished. He bounced around positions so much in college, he hasn't perfected any of them."

Yes.. but can any of them run the FB Option Pass ???

What I know is somewhere in the middle is probably the most realistic.

Our schedule is MUCH TOUGHER and we have yet another O being installed for the third year in a row still without an established QB.

So do I believe the overall talent got better? Yes I do. I've actually stated I liked this draft overall, especially at the top. I've said I thought it appears they have learned something from last years draft. I don't see stating any of those things as being negative.

Sometimes people who take each move as a single move and address it as such only seem negative to people who only want to push out sunshine and roses farts. lol

Don't agree, but I hope you are more right than I am!

I compared to last year though, and our TE position certainly appears improved compared to last year.

We still have Dray and Barnidge, and have added Housler and Telfar. Our loss is Cameron, and what did he give us last year? 24 catches for 424 yards and 2 TD. Hardly irreplaceable. In fact, I think that Housler will replace him quite well as our receiving TE.

My thoughts exactly. With the mix bag of skill sets at that group, it'll be one to watch to see who makes it (maybe they all do) and how Flip will utilize them. Jordan Cameron is no loss.

Mike Pettine declares Josh McCown favorite over Johnny Manziel to start season: 'We're not going to start talking competition'

"If you're taking the starters' reps, I guess that would be fair to say (that McCown will be the likely starter this season),'' Pettine said after the first practice of rookie camp.

Pettine stressed that Manziel's job is to work on his recovery and on learning the new offense. Meanwhile, he re-iterated that McCown will take the first team reps in spring practices and training camp.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/05/mike_pettine_declares_josh_mcc.html

I would argue that TE and LB are just about equal.

At tight end was lost a viable receiving threat in Cameron. We don't know what we have with Housler or either of the two rookies we drafted. Cameron, at least when healthy was a viable threat to make a big play at any given time. I think Miami got themselves a steal if they can keep him on the field.

At linebacker I would say it's about the same. We lost Jabaal Sheard, who was (in my opinion) very good at containment and defending the run but was below average at best as a stand up pass rusher. Nate Orchard produced in college but is a question mark coming into the season until we see him play. Scott Solomon I think is a darkhorse to win a lot of playing time at OLB, that guy was nasty the last two games of the season. Mingo and Armonty Bryant being healthy helps a lot too, but their are a lot of "what if's" that go along with our LB's so I kind of say they're equal to last year.

Quarterback is obviously the biggest question mark. Anxious to see some preseason action...

I hope Manziel can win the job, but I see McCown as the starter. If our running game and defense are both performing at a high level I think he'll be as productive as Hoyer was.

424 yards and 2 TD should not be that difficult to replace. Dray and Barnidge combined almost did so last year. Cameron simply was not a very big part of the offense last year.



Yet our defense stunk against the run. I cannot get too upset about losing a run stopper on a defense that was at the bottom of the league against the run.



Definitely the understatement of the day. I really hope that Manziel is able to come on and really win the job, and produce, That would be the best outcome as we would have our QB. However, I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

This is a shame.

I think this says more about how they feel about Manziel as a QB and less about them wanting him to focus on himself.

I disagree with you.

I think it says a lot about "Prove it, from here on out."

In MY opinion - that's what John needs. If, at this point in time, he feels "safe" with his job...........well, he shouldn't.

Look, he's basically a year 2 rookie. Will he learn? Will he put in the effort? Saying it's an "open competition" might be a negative for John.

Reading the whole article it seems to be Pettine might be comfortable starting McCown and actually NOT giving Manziel another shot this season (which likely means ever). Hard to tell at this point.

Agreed - somewhat.

It appears to me John is being treated as a rookie. After all, even with 1 year in, he really IS a rookie. He needs to show something this year or his football career may take Charlie Frye dive.

QB: EASY to say...WE SUCK THERE!