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Ah - you must have been very frugal to have worked 30 years as a fireman, retire, and have the money to pay a gardener. Or, one hell of a retirement package. Or, you married well. Or, you inherited money. Stop being a Troll and stick to the subject at hand. I was a Volly Firefighter and never made a dime from it. I served my community for 30 years and worked my way up to Chief. I had a career too that paid well. I invested in the market since I was 16.
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Not being a troll. However, thanks for the explanation.
(never made a dime from being a volunteer firefighter?)
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Not being a troll. However, thanks for the explanation.
(never made a dime from being a volunteer firefighter?) Actually not even a penny. Probably spent thousands of my own money over those years helping my community where needed. I know Ohio has places that pay Vollys but not here.
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I would rather dump 10 times the money into an effective education system than to spend what we spend to keep millions of american's in prison at a much, much higher cost. Then what happens to the parents? More prisons? A new system of orphanages to raise millions of children? Yes it would be a huge new government programs/employees to implement anything close to what you describe. Bigger government is a nasty word until it's something you believe in. Helping find an answer to poverty would be much more effective. There is no answer to poverty. It's always going to be there because life is just unfair that way. That doesn't mean you have to give up on the kids growing up in poverty. Jail is not the solution for every case. However, if it is discovered that a child is being abused and neglected then why on earth would you allow that to continue? We as a society have a responsibility to protect the children of our country. I mean our soldiers fight and die so our children have a future worth fighting for but then we at home are supposed to just ignore them and let them suffer? Screw that! I support the idea of federally ran and operated boarding schools for failing students. By removing a child from a failed environment and putting them into a new environment, that they can't quit or run away from, it will force them to adapt. While the kids are away at school you then give the parents some options. 1) You can go to jail for neglecting or abusing your child. Child services can determine if this one is applicable. 2) If you didn't do anything criminal then you take some court ordered parenting classes because maybe your parents never taught you how. If it's option 2 then there is no reason the parents can't keep custody and for instance have the kids home on school holidays and vacations. When the child has shown improvement they can enroll them again into a public or private school or leave him in the federal school. Their choice. Sometimes it's not the parents fault. Sometimes a kid is just being an arse. For them you send them to a military academy school and get their act straight. For most it won't take long for an attitude adjustment to come. Anything is better than just telling some kid who is ruining his life that it's too bad. Your parents suck so just suffer. It's high time the adults did something to stop the needless suffering of our children. It's one of the few things taxes are worth paying for.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I'm fresh off of a long two day car ride. I thought a lot about this thread, and read comments when my cellphone allowed a decent connection. It's time to take this thread to task! -------------------------------- Wow, lots of solid information popping up in here! It's great to see such great discussion! Now, a little bit of my story... ------------------------------------- A few of you know where I work and live for nine months out of the year. I educate Alaskan Native children in a teeny tiny native village. Our village is only accessible by propeller plane; no "roads" in our village lead to any other location in Alaska. The local population sits somewhere between 400-800 people. All of our supplies come from the outside world, but the majority of the villagers rely on subsistence practices. Subsistence is the way of life where I live and teach. Many are content with staying in the village, find immense pride in providing for their family, and enjoy their simple life. Honestly, I don't blame them! Life is simple in the village, but we do have others who may want more than subsistence; or we have others who want subsistence, but even more than what the village can offer. This leads us to the current clash with our education system. Not all students want a college education!. I find it admirable if a student finds their own path, and can figure it out without paying an exorbitant amount for school. A recent grad figured out a fantastic path that requires no college. Now the state government, with HUGE pressure from Arne Duncan/Obama, wants to punitively punish educators for their students test scores. What are we to do if students don't see any relevance of these tests? Teachers can give five million reasons to perform, but the students see the bigger picture. They don't see how life can change, regardless of scores, etc., because of a test score. Our students want to change the world, continue their culture, and find a way to make a living. Frankly, these tests won't do any of that for them. If anything, these tests will quickly accelerate the immense turnover of teachers in Alaskan Native villages. Turnover is a MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM than a silly test score. There's much more with cultural repression, but our district is finding a myriad of ways to right prior wrongs. That's a discussion for another thread... ------------------------------- Anyhow, back to Rocky's original point. Don't judge educators, unions, or anything about education till you've educated yourself on the realities of the American education system. You'll find it's much more nuanced than "Oh, these unions and teachers are a bunch of cry babies wanting more of my tax dollars!!!" And for the millionth time, please consider this piece of advice. Children with developing minds are not standard products on an assembly line. Treating them like a product with a perfect mold, a doctor with many years of schooling, or a lawyer with many practical practices under their belt is full of baloney logicAny other attacks on one of the most selfless professions in this country? If not, I'm out of this thread. 
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Definitely the Eskimos are a unique situation. Still what happens when they turn 30 and get tired of living such a hard life? If they are not educated they are stuck. I don't mean college, I just mean a GED.
I have no problem with the Eskimo lifestyle. I actually think its great! I wouldn't live in the cold like that but I can respect it. Still those kids are American citizens are they not? Shouldn't they have the same opportunities as any other citizen when possible?
That being said if a person can survive in tune with nature they are a hell of a lot better off than 90% of inner city kids IMHO. Still in this day and age a solar powered laptop and a satelite link up can see those kids get much of the teaching they need for the basics of a GED. It's portable and the state can certainly swing that much for a small city. They are starting do something similar in Africa and its having a huge impact.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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The problem is the student has to care and that comes from the parents caring. I have a 12 year old and if I didn't push him he would not give a damn about school regardless of what teachers tried to do. He has a few "friends" whose parents don't care and they barely pass (one just failed 6th grade). Of course it is all the schools fault. My son at least is starting to notice these kids are bad apples and not hanging out with them as much.
Education is a partnership. Parents MUST be involved and care. My mom taught for elementary school (every grade, including learning disability and severe behavior) for 30 years in Toledo Public Schools - her last few years, teaching Kindergarten, were some of the worst. Most parents used it as free daycare - hardly any of the kids could count to 10 or knew the alphabet when they started. Truly sad.
Teachers are one of the most undervalued professions in our society and it is really sad. Why anyone would go into that profession is beyond me. Major props to those who do!!!!
#gmstrong
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The problem is the student has to care and that comes from the parents caring. I have a 12 year old and if I didn't push him he would not give a damn about school regardless of what teachers tried to do. He has a few "friends" whose parents don't care and they barely pass (one just failed 6th grade). Of course it is all the schools fault. My son at least is starting to notice these kids are bad apples and not hanging out with them as much.
Education is a partnership. Parents MUST be involved and care. My mom taught for elementary school (every grade, including learning disability and severe behavior) for 30 years in Toledo Public Schools - her last few years, teaching Kindergarten, were some of the worst. Most parents used it as free daycare - hardly any of the kids could count to 10 or knew the alphabet when they started. Truly sad.
Teachers are one of the most undervalued professions in our society and it is really sad. Why anyone would go into that profession is beyond me. Major props to those who do!!!! Which is why I wrote earlier in this thread: "I support the idea of federally ran and operated boarding schools for failing students. By removing a child from a failed environment and putting them into a new environment, that they can't quit or run away from, it will force them to adapt. Sometimes it's not the parents fault. Sometimes a kid is just being an arse. For them you send them to a military academy school and get their act straight. For most it won't take long for an attitude adjustment to come." I think by forcing troubled teens into new environments that forces them to take school seriously you can save their lives. Also, it should help the public schools too because it sends a very clear messages to the students that if they don't study hard they will be next. I have witnessed the power of some of these military academies for the high school level and I am telling you they can really get those kids motivated. They just don't accept poor effort or laziness. Sometimes a change of scenery is just what the doctor ordered =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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There is no answer to poverty.
Poverty can be fixed, if big business is not allowed to benefit from poverty. Ban for-profit prisons Ban for-profit schools Not allow snap users to purchase soda, chips, Oreo cookies.. But that is not going to happen, poverty makes too many people on the opposite side of the spectrum too much money. Fixing poverty is bad for business.
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The funny thing is, if you allowed for the cost of the boarding school for the children and prison/education of the parents, it would solve poverty in those homes.
You're most certainly advocating HUGE government programs with billions upon billions of dollars as the price tag. a HUGE burden on the court system and an endless amount of red tape and can of worms with no end in sight.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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There is no answer to poverty.
Poverty can be fixed, if big business is not allowed to benefit from poverty. Ban for-profit prisons Ban for-profit schools Not allow snap users to purchase soda, chips, Oreo cookies.. But that is not going to happen, poverty makes too many people on the opposite side of the spectrum too much money. Fixing poverty is bad for business. Has nothing to do with it. You will always have poverty because you will always have lazy-do-nothings, drugheads, idiots, etc. I only want to save their children because the children are innocent in the whole mess. Saving the children while they are young enough is how you stop poverty. Waiting until they are young adults after growing up in horrible conditions and then asking what went wrong is just stupidity breeding more stupidity.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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so you think for profit prisons has nothing to do with it?
man....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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The funny thing is, if you allowed for the cost of the boarding school for the children and prison/education of the parents, it would solve poverty in those homes.
You're most certainly advocating HUGE government programs with billions upon billions of dollars as the price tag. a HUGE burden on the court system and an endless amount of red tape and can of worms with no end in sight. We already have the existing tools in place. Chances are we are already paying for foodstamps on these kids anyways so you just transfer the foodstamp cost to the boarding cost. In other words if you can't raise your kids to do good in school then you will start to lose the food stamps you get for them while they are at the boarding school. This means that those few women out there pumping out babies just to get more food stamps will learn quickly if they want that money they will have to actually raise those kids. Right now we spend more money paying just the interest on the national debt 7% than we do on education at 4%. Meanwhile we spend 17% on the military budget. So reduce the military budget to 14%(still the most expensive military in the world) and add that money to educational spending and not only can you easily afford boarding school you can afford to send most kids to college too. We have such glaring poverty because we are not doing what it takes to change the culture of poverty. You have to accept the fact that 90% of kids that grow up in poverty will become adults in poverty and also 70% of those will become criminals. After 10 to 20 years of enforcing a culture change like this the cost for it will start going down. Why, because it would start to effect the new generations in a way that says ignorance won't be tolerated. Study hard or you're off to a boarding school. Make your kids study hard or you will lose your benefits or worse. This current culture where they don't put a value on educating their kids will start to disappear and the kids we save from growing up in hell will grow up loving education instead of hating the world. When you change 1 million Americans a YEAR from being ignorant to well educated with a hope of college America will benefit tremendously. We can't keep allowing a million students a year to drop out of highschool and expect our country to prosper. That would be insanity!
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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There is no answer to poverty.
Poverty can be fixed, if big business is not allowed to benefit from poverty. Ban for-profit prisons Ban for-profit schools Not allow snap users to purchase soda, chips, Oreo cookies.. But that is not going to happen, poverty makes too many people on the opposite side of the spectrum too much money. Fixing poverty is bad for business. I agree about the prisons, disagree about the schools, and agree about the junk food. I disagree about the schools because the for-profit schools are some of the best schools we have. Profit is a great motivator but profit doesn't cure everything. Thing is, I agree with a lot of what Razor is saying about breaking the cycle of poverty, just not sure at all how to implement it. It's going to be very police state-ish if the government starts yanking kids away from their moms and dads and forcing them into boarding schools because their grades are bad. Would it help some kids? Probably... but what are the social ramifications of being yanked away from your family? He states that they can't quit or run away... that sounds more like internment than boarding school... So I agree that we need to be creative and in some cases probably more forceful if we really want to break the cycle of poverty for a significant number of people, just not sure what that would look like.
yebat' Putin
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Most charter schools exist as for profit entities. 80% of charters do worse than public schools. 10% of charters do just as well as regular schools. The other 10 % of charters do better. Of the 10% that do better, they lack a minority's student population of low socioeconomic status, and have no students on an IEP.
For profit colleges hold a notorious reputation as nothing but paper mills. Barely any of their degree programs possess any sort of accreditation. No employer will accept a degree without accreditation.
For profit educational entities bog down our education system. Let's not even talk about the killing that Pearson makes off of testing our students, either.
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A cool five billion euros in sales for Pearson worldwide. Dude's just trying to feed his family...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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80% of charters do worse than public schools. 10% of charters do just as well as regular schools. The other 10 % of charters do better. Based on what? For profit colleges hold a notorious reputation as nothing but paper mills. Barely any of their degree programs possess any sort of accreditation. Perhaps I'm confusing Private with For-Profit then...
yebat' Putin
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Perhaps I'm confusing Private with For-Profit then...
Yes private schools and Charter schools are different. Columbus Acadamy is a big private school in Columbus and is probaly top 5 school in Ohio, it cost roughly 40k a year for a high school. The kids get organic meals, very small classrooms, basically a world class experience. Super high percentage of ivy league schools compared to other schools. LifeSkills is a for profit school which targets poor drop outs which is funded from Ohio Department of Education. They are just like the for-profit prisons, they provide the bare minimum for kids to learn and cut corners to make a profit. If they law says that you can have 35 kids per class room they will provide 35 per classroom. _____ White Hat Management nears ONE BILLION DOLLARS in charter school funding in Ohio by Greg on February 24, 2012 · 2 Comments Congratulations are in order to Kasich pal David Brennan and his White Hat Management company for being awarded two more charter schools by the Ohio Department of Education despite the worst list of accomplishments we may have ever seen. And with these additional schools, it is likely that White Hat schools will top $1 billion in revenue in Ohio. And, of course, our deepest condolences to idealistic charter school entities like the Fordham Foundation who can’t keep David Brennan and his negative actions and failing schools out of the forefront of the media. In fact, it’s more likely to be Brennan and his White Hat Management Company that ultimately kill the Ohio charter school movement than it is Democratic politicians. Brennan is the poster child for charter schools in Ohio and until Fordham can force laws that will close White Hat schools permanently, White Hat Management and Ohio Charter Schools will remain synonymous in the minds of Ohioans. Sadly, it doesn’t appear to be happening anytime soon as this week the Ohio Department of Education approved White Hat’s requests to sponsor two new charter schools. StateImpact’s Molly Bloom wrote a nice summary of the situation yesterday that includes a variety of links that I recommend, including White Hat’s applications for the new buildings. The applications don’t provide enough information about the applicant, though, so we thought we’d provide a more comprehensive list of White Hat’s educational accomplishments in Ohio. This might help you understand WHY the requests for two new schools were granted (if you’re completely stoned, don’t read English, or are engaging in a fun game my son likes to call “backwards day”). White Hat Management Company School Revenues in Ohio since 1999: $818,919,080.00 Enrollment: Peaked at 13,683 statewide in 2004-2005; 25% decline in past five years Total schools: 30 (minus 4 that were closed for academic reasons or contractual non-compliance) Current Building Grades Alternative Education Academy (aka OHDELA) Digital D: Academic Watch (same as previous year) School Improvement Year 7 Hope Academy Brown Street C: Continuous Improvement (dropped one level from previous year) No school improvement designation Hope Academy Cathedral Campus CLOSED 2011 F: Academic Emergency School Improvement Year 2 Hope Academy Chapelside Campus C: Continuous Improvement (increased one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 5 Hope Academy East Campus D: Academic Watch (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 5 Hope Academy Lincoln Park Campus D: Academic Watch (dropped two levels from previous year) School Improvement Year 5 Hope Academy North Coast Campus D: Academic Watch (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 5 Hope Academy Northwest Campus C: Continuous Improvement (increased one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Hope Academy University Campus D: Academic Watch (same) School Improvement Year 2 Hope Academy West Campus (AKA) Hope Academy, Cuyahoga Campus D: Academic Watch (same) School Improvement Year 5 Life Skills Center of Akron D: Academic Watch (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Cincinnati F: Academic Emergency (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Cleveland F: Academic Emergency (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Columbus North C: Continuous Improvement (increased two levels from previous year) School Improvement Year 4 Life Skills Center of Columbus Southeast C: Continuous Improvement (same) School Improvement Year 5 Life Skills Center of Dayton F: Academic Emergency (same) School Improvement Year 5 Life Skills Center of Elyria (aka Greater Cleveland) D: Academic Watch (increased one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 7 Life Skills Center of Hamilton County C: Continuous Improvement (same) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Lake Erie C: Continuous Improvement (increased one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Middletown (Butler County) C: Continuous Improvement (increased two levels from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of North Akron F: Academic Emergency (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 4 Life Skills Center of Northeast Ohio F: Academic Emergency (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Springfield (aka Clark Co.) F: Academic Emergency (same) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Summit County C: Continuous Improvement (same) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Toledo D: Academic Watch (same) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Trumbull County D: Academic Watch (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Life Skills Center of Youngstown D: Academic Watch (dropped one level from previous year) School Improvement Year 6 Final grade summary: 9 Cs 11 Ds 7 Fs Final GPA: 1.07 Note: The Life Skills schools are still in operation solely because every single one has received a waiver from the state for Dropout Recovery schools that “prevents a school’s closure due to poor academic performance.” Who wouldn’t want to turn over a few hundred MORE children to a company with such an impressive track record after more than a decade in the business? And since we’re already forking over $80 million per year to this company, what’s another $6 million among Kasich’s friends? And maybe, JUST maybe, we’ll get a look at White Hat’s finances right around the time they hit that magic $1 billion mark.
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There is no answer to poverty.
Poverty can be fixed, if big business is not allowed to benefit from poverty. Ban for-profit prisons Ban for-profit schools Not allow snap users to purchase soda, chips, Oreo cookies.. But that is not going to happen, poverty makes too many people on the opposite side of the spectrum too much money. Fixing poverty is bad for business. Has nothing to do with it. You will always have poverty because you will always have lazy-do-nothings, drugheads, idiots, etc. I only want to save their children because the children are innocent in the whole mess. Saving the children while they are young enough is how you stop poverty. Waiting until they are young adults after growing up in horrible conditions and then asking what went wrong is just stupidity breeding more stupidity. Ban for-profit prisons --will keep people out of jail because policies have been created to put more people in jail because its good for business. Why should people go to jail for years for selling/smoking drugs or a petty crime? America does it because prisions make money off of it. Ban for-profit schools--my other post explains a little more but for profit schools will offer the minimal because they are concerned about turning a profit rather then providing a positive education. Not allow snap users to purchase junk food - will force people to eat healthy, and if they want those delicious junk foods they will have to work and get it. However the big junk food, processed food businesses depend on this government subsidy. Do you not see how all of these items could reduce poverty significantly? If not I will break it down more when I get a chance.
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Note: The Life Skills schools are still in operation solely because every single one has received a waiver from the state for Dropout Recovery schools that “prevents a school’s closure due to poor academic performance.” Now I am not going to pretend to know a whole lot about their operations ..... but if they are doing as it says here, and that seems consistent based on what I saw with some kids who worked fr me years ago, then they are taking those kids who have already fallen through the education cracks, have dropped out, and are trying to recover them. That is why their results are so poor overall. They are not graduating students who are committed to staying in school, but rather kids who have already dropped out. Am I reading this correctly?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes and no.
Yes, these are kids who have fallen through cracks or are on the verge of dropping out. Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world.
A for-profit school is only interested in making money.
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Let me be clear I am not suggesting anything like a charter school. I am talking about a military academy school that is federally run and operated.
We are not talking about kids on the brink either. We are talking about kids that public school has no hope of saving. They don't show up. They show anti social or behavioral problems. They purposely fail tests. They tend to be violent or apathetic.
These kids don't need a shoulder to cry on. They need a hardcore attitude adjustment along with a safe and stable environment. These kids are going to become criminals of some sort when they can't find work, if they ever even look for work.
We are talking about kids who are being beaten, molested, raped, starved, and God only knows what else. They need to be SAFE.
They need discipline. They need a set of boundaries that are enforced by an adult or adults in their life. At the point we are talking about putting a kid into an academy of this nature the parents have already proven that they are failures as parents.
Lurker - I have no problems with getting rid of for-profit prisons and schools(government funded anyways).
Concerning junk food, eh I don't care much one way or the other. Most poor folks can't afford it anyways except as a rare treat once or twice a month. They can't afford to eat healthy though either because it's very expensive to eat the healthier foods.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Yes and no.
Yes, these are kids who have fallen through cracks or are on the verge of dropping out. Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world.
A for-profit school is only interested in making money. I meant this particular "Life Skills" company, that take kids who have already dropped out and try to get them in position to get their GED. I don't know if they take kids who are still in school. All of the kids I knew who were in Life Skills had already dropped out of school, for one reason or another, (often pregnancy) and wanted to try and get their GED.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world. Which always leads to the same question.... how much should we spend on the bottom 10% just to get them to a functional level when that money could go to the upper 10% to help make them truly exceptional. We have a finite amount of money... if you weight the bulk of the spending to the bottom, as you suggest, then in the end what you get is a whole where everybody from top to bottom is closer to average....
yebat' Putin
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Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world. Which always leads to the same question.... how much should we spend on the bottom 10% just to get them to a functional level when that money could go to the upper 10% to help make them truly exceptional. We have a finite amount of money... if you weight the bulk of the spending to the bottom, as you suggest, then in the end what you get is a whole where everybody from top to bottom is closer to average.... Do we want to fix poverty, or create a group of super rich super powerful families who run the world for generations? The top have many benefits that the middle and poor will never have, why make them better? In my example of Columbus Academy earlier, most people who go to CA are from very affluent families how else cant hey afford $40k a year for tuition? They live a competlenty different life then most, why spend more money to help them when we can get the bottom trained enough to be productive members of our society so they can work decent jobs instead of commit crimes?
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Yes and no.
Yes, these are kids who have fallen through cracks or are on the verge of dropping out. Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world.
A for-profit school is only interested in making money. I meant this particular "Life Skills" company, that take kids who have already dropped out and try to get them in position to get their GED. I don't know if they take kids who are still in school. All of the kids I knew who were in Life Skills had already dropped out of school, for one reason or another, (often pregnancy) and wanted to try and get their GED. They have other schools in their portfolia which are charter schools. They take kids who are at risk of dropping out not just drop outs. They give them a sub-par education to get them to pass the GED and then let them fail. They get paid something like $1,500 per child per school year so 300 kids in one school year will make them $450,000 (before expenses). Don't forget this is all of our tax dollars, why not invest that same money into fixing public schools?
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Don't forget this is all of our tax dollars, why not invest that same money into fixing public schools? We need better managers for meaningful program in schools. If we only knew how much funding is put towards meaningless standardized testing.
Last edited by RocketOptimist; 06/02/15 01:53 PM.
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Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world. Which always leads to the same question.... how much should we spend on the bottom 10% just to get them to a functional level when that money could go to the upper 10% to help make them truly exceptional. We have a finite amount of money... if you weight the bulk of the spending to the bottom, as you suggest, then in the end what you get is a whole where everybody from top to bottom is closer to average.... so you want to create even more people that are out of touch with reality, more people who hog the world's wealth? on that political test, did you score center right or right wing? cause if so that makes things a lot more clear.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Yes and no.
Yes, these are kids who have fallen through cracks or are on the verge of dropping out. Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world.
A for-profit school is only interested in making money. I meant this particular "Life Skills" company, that take kids who have already dropped out and try to get them in position to get their GED. I don't know if they take kids who are still in school. All of the kids I knew who were in Life Skills had already dropped out of school, for one reason or another, (often pregnancy) and wanted to try and get their GED. They have other schools in their portfolia which are charter schools. They take kids who are at risk of dropping out not just drop outs. They give them a sub-par education to get them to pass the GED and then let them fail. They get paid something like $1,500 per child per school year so 300 kids in one school year will make them $450,000 (before expenses). Don't forget this is all of our tax dollars, why not invest that same money into fixing public schools? So they keep kids who are at risk of dropping out, and keep them from dropping out? They give them a sub par education, for a fraction of what the local school district pays per student? (I think that Youngstown spends something like $5000-6000 per student, per year .... which is just incredible, given their results) It seems to me that one could argue that they are giving these kids who have no shot at least a minor shot. Most of these kids who drop out, or who are in serious danger of dropping out, are probably not the most committed of students, and are probably at no risk of making the Rhodes Scholarship list down the road. If these kids get any kind of education, it could be considered a victory to some, especially considering that they were heading to no education at all on the path they were on. Just a different point of view. I really don't know what the answer is ..... but just wanted to look at it from a different perspective.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Do we want to fix poverty, or create a group of super rich super powerful families who run the world for generations? The top have many benefits that the middle and poor will never have, why make them better? You make the assumption that everybody that does well in school is already rich.... and I'm not concerning myself specifically with Charter schools anymore but public schools in general.... there are a lot of kids from middle class, lower middle class, and poorer families who start out doing really well in school only to hit a ceiling and be dragged down. These are good young kids who are not academic problems or behavior problems, yet they would not benefit from all of this additional funding... what they need is to be pushed, to be accelerated, to be moved away from the element of kids that will eventually drag them down... They are not going to benefit because the F student becomes a D+ student.
yebat' Putin
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so you want to create even more people that are out of touch with reality, more people who hog the world's wealth? Yes, yes I do. I want the little black kid in the Bronx who is academically gifted but financially disadvantaged to be encouraged to grow up and be wildly successful because the resources are being spent on him... rather than dumping a bunch of resources into a group of kids who don't want to be there and don't give a damn, so they can go from being potential drop outs to D students. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I remember a day when successful people were revered... unlike now, when they are despised.
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I like the idea of "tracking" as you describe it, DC. My only issue, as being an educator, is that it might prevent students from jumping tracks. I want to give the best opportunity to learn to all students. Maybe a child, for whatever reason, had a few bad years which impacts their overall tract. We actually see that on a yearly basis where we teach. Eventually a student blossoms, and they excel at a higher rate than before. A "true" tracking system says this student stays on the current track they are on. I'd rather it be a dynamic track where the students can move up and down based on achievement. Also, this track would go for all subject areas, and not a blanket track. who start out doing really well in school only to hit a ceiling and be dragged down. These are good young kids who are not academic problems or behavior problems, yet they would not benefit from all of this additional funding... what they need is to be pushed, to be accelerated, to be moved away from the element of kids that will eventually drag them down... They are not going to benefit because the F student becomes a D+ student He's right, everyone. This is a major reality that no one talks about. Edit: rather than dumping a bunch of resources into a group of kids who don't want to be there and don't give a damn, so they can go from being potential drop outs to D students There are resources these students could benefit from. However, I think the underlying issues with these students goes far beyond the school in which they attend. Also, these students do care. Although, their priority is a safe place. Many of these absolutely troubled students deal with an insurmountable challenges at home. And yes, this goes across all school environments.
Last edited by RocketOptimist; 06/02/15 02:56 PM.
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Yes and no.
Yes, these are kids who have fallen through cracks or are on the verge of dropping out. Just because they are in this state does not mean a school can give them a sub-par education they still have a responsibility to provide the best possible education for these kids. I feel these kids should have more funding and concentration on their education to get them prepared for the real world.
A for-profit school is only interested in making money. I meant this particular "Life Skills" company, that take kids who have already dropped out and try to get them in position to get their GED. I don't know if they take kids who are still in school. All of the kids I knew who were in Life Skills had already dropped out of school, for one reason or another, (often pregnancy) and wanted to try and get their GED. They have other schools in their portfolia which are charter schools. They take kids who are at risk of dropping out not just drop outs. They give them a sub-par education to get them to pass the GED and then let them fail. They get paid something like $1,500 per child per school year so 300 kids in one school year will make them $450,000 (before expenses). Don't forget this is all of our tax dollars, why not invest that same money into fixing public schools? So they keep kids who are at risk of dropping out, and keep them from dropping out? They give them a sub par education, for a fraction of what the local school district pays per student? (I think that Youngstown spends something like $5000-6000 per student, per year .... which is just incredible, given their results) It seems to me that one could argue that they are giving these kids who have no shot at least a minor shot. Most of these kids who drop out, or who are in serious danger of dropping out, are probably not the most committed of students, and are probably at no risk of making the Rhodes Scholarship list down the road. If these kids get any kind of education, it could be considered a victory to some, especially considering that they were heading to no education at all on the path they were on. Just a different point of view. I really don't know what the answer is ..... but just wanted to look at it from a different perspective. I was wrong charter schools receive $5,745 per student so in that example its now $1,723,500. And if they do teach poverty areas, they get more money as well as tax breaks. How can we as tax payers, thinks it's acceptable that your tax dollars are going to a for profit school. If we want to end poverty, which will dramatically reduce crime, we need to invest more in education and get the at risk students jobs. Poor people don't want to commit crimes, they want to work.
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I agree with your notion that a kid should not have their ceiling or future (their final track) decided at a young age, there absolutely should be the availability at any point to move up if the level of effort, dedication, etc. warrant it. Just as they should be moved down if it changes in the other direction.
I'm also not for giving up on the bottom 10%.. but let's be honest, COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY. These kids generally need a lot more social awareness attention than they need academic attention because academically... they just don't care. And they won't care unless you give them a reason to care and until they care, you can dump a fortune into their academics and you will see very little return on your investment.
The government, the school system, can't fix these kids. They can help by providing food, shelter, academic resources to be used if wanted.... but the only thing that can even attempt to fix these kids is a mom or dad, aunt or uncle, grandma or grandpa, community friend, coach, mentor... somebody who is willing to treat that kid like they matter and tell them the damn truth... that success isn't f*ing easy, but it is possible... and that there is a 99.99% chance it's NOT going to come through sports or entertainment and that if it comes through crime, well then enjoy it while it lasts because it won't last for very long... Somebody who can have at least as much or more influence on them than their friends who are telling them they don't matter and that they are living on a dead end street.
yebat' Putin
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I agree with your notion that a kid should not have their ceiling or future (their final track) decided at a young age, there absolutely should be the availability at any point to move up if the level of effort, dedication, etc. warrant it. Just as they should be moved down if it changes in the other direction.
I'm also not for giving up on the bottom 10%.. but let's be honest, COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY. These kids generally need a lot more social awareness attention than they need academic attention because academically... they just don't care. And they won't care unless you give them a reason to care and until they care, you can dump a fortune into their academics and you will see very little return on your investment.
The government, the school system, can't fix these kids. They can help by providing food, shelter, academic resources to be used if wanted.... but the only thing that can even attempt to fix these kids is a mom or dad, aunt or uncle, grandma or grandpa, community friend, coach, mentor... somebody who is willing to treat that kid like they matter and tell them the damn truth... that success isn't f*ing easy, but it is possible... and that there is a 99.99% chance it's NOT going to come through sports or entertainment and that if it comes through crime, well then enjoy it while it lasts because it won't last for very long... Somebody who can have at least as much or more influence on them than their friends who are telling them they don't matter and that they are living on a dead end street. the only reason i trip is because i think about my life, and you're basically saying i had no hope and should be forgotten about.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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SwIsh, what he is saying is that a school itself cannot right the wrongs that these troubled kids face. Many of their challenges go far beyond the K-12 system.
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SwIsh, what he is saying is that a school itself cannot right the wrongs that these troubled kids face. Many of their challenges go far beyond the K-12 system. i get that. however, that's where this endless cycle comes from. some parents are craptastic parents. so absent parents + craptasitc schools = craptastic products of society. those craptastic adults end up typically reproducing with other craptastic people, and the cycle continues. at what point does our government or the morality of the people cut the cycle off?
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Do we want to fix poverty, or create a group of super rich super powerful families who run the world for generations? The top have many benefits that the middle and poor will never have, why make them better? You make the assumption that everybody that does well in school is already rich.... and I'm not concerning myself specifically with Charter schools anymore but public schools in general.... there are a lot of kids from middle class, lower middle class, and poorer families who start out doing really well in school only to hit a ceiling and be dragged down. These are good young kids who are not academic problems or behavior problems, yet they would not benefit from all of this additional funding... what they need is to be pushed, to be accelerated, to be moved away from the element of kids that will eventually drag them down... They are not going to benefit because the F student becomes a D+ student. The data says that if you are a suburban school district you will have higher test scores, so if we are talking about the to 10% of all students then they will be in a completely different economic class then the bottom 10%. Now if you are talking about the top 10% of kids in these public poverty schools, then I will agree with you to a point, it can be done, but it cost money. I have no problem with us spending money to fix the issue, rather then paying a private company 100 million to manage charter schools. (that's one company in Ohio)
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the only reason i trip is because i think about my life, and you're basically saying i had no hope and should be forgotten about. Swish I'm not familiar with your circumstances at all when you were a child.. (and that's one thing we haven't really discussed is age, my parameters kind of change if we are talking about a 6 year old compared to a 17 year old but we have just been referring to "kids" as a collective) I don't know if you were a discipline problem or an academic problem... You said you were/are a math wiz, in what I'm saying is that this should have been recognized, nurtured and cultivated, encouraged... If you were capable of multiplication in 3rd grade you shouldn't have been sitting in class bored and waiting for a bunch of other kids to learn to add and subtract before the whole class could move forward together. You should have been in a different room learning to multiply and divide and do algebra if that's what you were capable of. I don't want to take anything away from the kids struggling to learn to add, I want to give opportunities to the kids who are ready to do multiplication... Not sure why thinking about your life makes you want to trip... You seem like a smart guy, you have great military experience, a wife and kid... Maybe if you stop tripping, put down the video games, take some classes, do some business networking, get out there and figure out where you belong in the world and get things moving forward then you won't feel like you need to trip any more. Honestly I feel kind of awkward throwing out all of this dime store advice because.. 1. I barely know you from what we've talked about on here and 2. I'm not a psychologist... Just a guy with an opinion, take it for what it's worth.
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Addressing poverty would solve lots of craptastic situations. The problems in schools would mitigate themselves if poverty was fixed. Trust me on this, Swish. I'm in the trenches of these places.
You don't want money thrown at schools. Too much of it is wasted on idiotic measures like testing, unneeded administrators, and contracts for technology that barely sees any use. Challenging Arne Duncan to fix poverty is about as useful as having Bernie Kosar suiting up today as the starting QB for the 2015 Cleveland Browns.
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