DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns mini camp...Phase 3: May 26-29, June 1-4, June 8-12

This team doesn't have any strengths.

Only weaknesses.

Fluff articles are bogus.

You know it's getting bad, when even I can look at the name of a poster and already know that it's gonna be trash talking about our Browns

J/C

Josh is going to be our Steve DeBerg.

And you can also tell by poster who is either going to back every move the Browns make, or trash the posters who have real concerns about this team.

I definitely have concerns with this team, however, because I have some faith in the coach and think they are building a nice defense, I'm not ready to say this season will be a complete bust. I do think the offense has some serious issues.

Now the really good fans can tell me what a crappy fan I am.

He's the best nickel I've seen since Mark Harper played it wih Top Dawg and Mighty Minnie ... JMHO

Hoyer was 7-6 last season McCown was 1-10..

OK, you are a crappy fan Jules.

I agree that the offense isn't up to standards but I think our running game and defense will be top notch and if we can get the Special Teams to perform well we should at least equal last years record. I thought we were a .500 team last year and while the schedule is a little bit tougher this year, with the additions we made on defense I think it will be better and with another year under the belt for West and Crowell plus the addition of the explosive Duke Johnson I don't see why the Running game shouldn't be improved. On top of all that I think Pettine and the coaching staff should feel more comfortable this year so I don't see why we can't at least be a .500 team this year.

It's just gotten to a point where if anything good is posted, it gets slammed as fluff and we shouldn't dare to follow anything good. I think we all have concerns about one thing or another, but just because we do doesn't mean we need to focus on the bad and ignore the good. I think Pet is going to be a really good coach, we just need to give him time. Go Browns!

**ANTI-FLUFF TRANSLATION PROVIDED BY CLEMDAWG**
===============================================


Quote: "K’Waun Williams, Justin Gilbert, Joe Haden, Robert Nelson, Pierre Desir each broke up passes."

Translation: "Our QB's suck, and are telegraphing all their passes."


Quote: "For the most part, these were aggressive poke-aways in tight coverage – not the result of errant throws "

Translation: "No arm strength."

Quote: "Josh McCown standing tall in the pocket, peering over the center of the defense and rifling a strike to Taylor Gabriel crossing from the right side and breaking inside safety Donte Whitner at the back of the end zone."

Translation: "Blind squirrel finds acorn."

Quote: "Gilbert, last year’s first-round flop, seems more committed and attentive in the early going of his second year."

Translation: "2 X 0 is still 0."

Quote: “It’s gonna be on us, but we know we have the ability to be the leading group of the team,” Haden said.

Translation: "...because everybody else on this team sucks."

You just gotta hope that a guy that size has skill and can make an impact. I'm assuming Ray & Pet brought him in here because they saw something special. I'm beginning to believe that if that is not the case, players don't stay on the roster long.

Not a crappy fan, just a battered fan. And I don't blame you. It is extremely difficult to maintain a positive outlook after 15 off-seasons of unabridged hope that ultimately led to mind numbing despair.

Having said that (falling into trap once again) I do believe that our defense is going to be ferocious, (by that I mean top 3-5 in every category,) and that our offense will be much better (more efficient) than most people think.

I think our line will be top 5 with everyone healthy and the addition of Erving, our running game top 5 with the addition of Duke Johnson, and our passing game will be a surprise to most.

Even though I was a proponent for keeping Hoyer, I am actually excited about McCown, both as a leader and as a game manager. He may not be Rogers-esque, but I expect him to consistently get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. I think that is how the coaches are approaching it, I think he will work very hard to make it happen, and I believe we have the playmakers to make it happen. I think our WR corps is better than most people think, I think our TEs are better than most people think and I think our RBs will be very involved and effective in the passing game as well.

I believe Ray & Pet (and all the other coaches) are working extremely hard to make this happen even though most people will say that the offense is abysmal.

JMHO FWIW

(P.S. I also believe this is the most talented team assembled, by far, since the return. We will actually be cutting talented players to get to 53 this year.)

LOL

Whether you agree or disagree, just an awesomee post!

Classic Clem..and really not far from the truth.

Jut drop the mic and walk off stage.

Leave it to you.

hahah!

Ok, that's hilarious, but the kinda depressing part is that I also think your translations, while tongue-in-cheek, may be closer to the truth than is comfortable.

Can Gilbert play WR?...

No one is saying that. However, I know I am saying that while there are some strengths there are also some weaknesses that are not being addressed.

And when a negative article comes out, you guys rush to dismiss every freaking bit of it.

The double standard is obvious.

Browns hold breath, but don’t think Dwayne Bowe injury serious

Posted by Darin Gantt on June 3, 2015, 12:47 PM EDT

2015 Cleveland Browns Mini Camp Practice Getty Images

The biggest chance the Browns have at a big-time receiver didn’t make it through practice yesterday, though they’re hoping it’s not a big deal.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Browns wide receiver Dwayne Bowe left practice with a knee injury, and didn’t return.

“We might hold him out Thursday,” Browns coach Mike Pettine said. “I’ll wait to see the results of it. It wasn’t anything serious, but especially in the spring with anything, we’re going to tend to err on the side of being conservative.”

Bowe apparently got tangled up with a defender and came up limping, which is going to be a concern despite the severity. The Browns lack offensive punch, and without Bowe, it would be even worse.

But Pettine said he expected Bowe back next week, regardless.

“He’s been good,” Pettine said. “He’s been a veteran. He’s been a good role model for those young guys. Just the ability to win outside some of the back-shoulder throws we’ve been able to make. The other day, the first play of our red zone period, he caught a touchdown up the seam. Just a bigger body with a big catch radius. To me, that’s just something you can’t coach. We’re glad he’s here.”

Now they just have to wait to see when he’s back there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...injury-serious/

Do you think????

Bowe will be our endzone goto target. He'll play all downs there, his reps will be split otherwise (just a hunch anyway.)

Which negative article did we dismiss? The one where Haslam was trading the Browns for the titans? The one where Johnny was going to miss Otas? One where he was gonna be placed on IR? The one where the Browns were 90% finished with him? Or the one a few days ago where the Browns were done with him? The one where we were trying to trade first round picks for a QB on crutches because a coach that jilted Jimmy said so? lol

Other than the QB position, there isnt a lot of negativity with this team. The Farmer stuff is just old news now. The thing with Shanny is a negative but you and I have had a lot of discussions over the years as I prefer more inside smash mouth inline blocking and also prefer the Coryell passing offense and have been against the WCO and zone scheme. Shanny opened my eyes to its benefits last year but I still have my preference lol

You have preached the advantage of zone blocking and I finally got to see it actualy work here and I am glad we are keeping much of it but also going back to the inside runs that I prefer. We both kinda get what we want out of the run game for once.

I do however like the swing passes to the backs in this offense cause if they get past that first defender there is probably 30plus to be gained. I love this OL and our Backs.

Bowe was probably a waste of 7 mil and thats on Farmer. Hartline however was a steal and GaBriel has the making of something special.

Our sencondary has become what we expected our DL to be before the nightmare of injuries. Now we have the DL getting healthy also.

Just not a lot to be all depressed about imho.

j/c

so it looks like our WR corp will be:

WR1 - Bowe
WR2 - Hartline
Slot - Hawkins

Backup - Gabriel
Backup - Mayle
Backup - Benjamin


if someone surprises in camp I can see us cutting Benji and/or stashing Mayle on the PS

not impressed with Gabriel. never saw Bowe, Hartline play. hawkins is ok. would have kept austin.

what can i say? i read about the balls batted down and the first thing i thought is our recievers are not getting seperation. lol

McCown plays scared Tab, its why your always beating the O Line drum. You think the teams we face aren't aware of his short comings? Really? You get a hit or 2 on this guy and he will toss it up or put it on the ground. He's fumbled nearly as many times as he has thrown Ints. He is accountable for 2-3 turnovers per game for his career.

Then we come to the best part. We will run the ball. And we will no doubt but when we can't run the ball, and that will happen too McCown will be put in situations where he has to make plays with unfavorable down and distance and then comes his greatest fear, pressure and up it goes or down to the ground it will fall.

But if the Browns were playing against McCown what would the book read like for you? Mine hit him because he plays scared. Run blitz the hell out of the Browns and hit McCown.

You look for the good in all things Brown, try stepping back and looking at it from a opponents POV. How do you or would you defend this guy???

Good grief. You are one talented fortune teller - I am impressed with how clearly you see the future.

Let's be clear - I know I wanted to keep Hoyer. I think tab and many others did. Having said that - I was making excuses or projections for why Hoyer played so incredibly bad in so many games last year ... I was projecting better play for Hoyer than we actually got from him last year. That was what I did for Hoyer ...

With Hoyer out of the picture - all the QB options were mediocre at very best. That or give up the future and 3 first round picks for Mariota. The best option at QB in the off-season was giving up too much for Bradford who is an injury waiting to happen. Many wanted Ryan (because of perceived potential) - who is possibly or probably going to be beaten out of the starting role by Hoyer ... So we have McCown. Nobody is jumping for joy that we have McCown. No-one is saying we scored a major coup by having McCown.

What we seem to have is two camps - one where they want to project doom and gloom and b*tch about McCown regardless of whatever the topic is. They have already decided the season is lost because we have McCown. And if anyone tries to project why McCown might be or should be better than his 1-10 record, they get slammed. The other camp seems to be acknowledging it is what it is - highlighting there are some valid reasons why we might see improved performance and certainly a better W/L statistic from McCown while he is in a Browns uniform.

What's funny to see is the haters that are totally entrenched in their hate for Farmer and McCown - claim that they are fair and balanced.

Given that he was a rookie undrafted WR, what about Gabriel leaves you unimpressed with how he performed?

Thanks its nice to know someone appreciates my talents....

I don't think so. I think we are going to have a fairly potent offense. I think a lot of people are going to be suprised.


We are going to win our division.

It shouldn't matter where a player was drafted - if he's on the team, how good is he and how much can he and will he contribute. Surely that's the only thing that matters?

I liked Gabriel and thought that with better QB play he would have had a very good season. Too many times he beat his man and then the ball was not placed well for him to make YAC.

Or, he beat his man and wasnt seen or targeted.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite!

I'm pretty sure every browns fan wants you to be right.. I know I do.

Go be a homer somewhere else!



Most years the doom & gloom is justifiable because this team stinks and there really is very little hope BUT...

With that being said, from top to bottom this is the best looking roster we've had since returning in 1999 excluding the TE position.

On paper, our defense should be elite and our offensive line is a top five in the league easily, it's not that farfetched to expect a solid season.

If you win in the trenches every single play, you set yourself up for success on both sides of the football, and that's how this team is being built.

I love love love Hartline he is Brian Brennen all over again. By far the best addition to the team. Agreed with most of your post, now how rare is that.

We are a good QB away but man the QB is going to kill us....Wished we had been able to get Bradford or at least to have re-signed Hoyer if we had we would have made the playoffs this year, maybe we could hjave evn gone deep with Bradford. With McCown we are sunk.

Brian Hartline is just about the polar opposite of Brian Brennan.

Brennan was a slower, shifty, short (5'9") receiver with terrific hands that relied on smarts to get open over the middle of the field.

Hartline is probably in the upper 20% for long speed for receivers in the NFL, is 6'2", and makes almost all of his plays on the perimeter. He plays the sideline as well as anyone in the NFL.

The only things they have in common is their first name and that they play for the Browns.

Let me narrow this down for you Brennen was clutch and every time I have seen Hartline play he always seems to be the guy making the clutch play. In that respect he reminds me of Brennen and always has.

Gabriel was like top 2 or 3 in YPC last year. He was wide open and the QBs missed him horribly on a dozen of what should have been gimmie TDs. Frankly, I can't remember the last time a rookie receiver for the Browns impressed me the way he did. I have made no bones about it, I see the same qualities in this kid that Steve Smith is still using to beat the likes of Haden.

I think he is our best receiver and has the potential to be a franchise receiver for us. Now can McCown throw an accurate enough deep ball?

I found this article very interesting will only post part of it. It was basically showing what MCCown did with the Bears vs Cutler but since i dont care about Cutler, left his off.

Profootball focus

All categories with a * are normalized so that the league average is 0.0.
Positives

• Graded at +6.5 on passes in 11-20-yard range.
• Showed well on 2nd-and-Long (+3.9) and 3rd-and-Long (+4.4).
• Threw well to the middle (+9.9) and right (+6.4).
• Posted league’s highest grade when pressured: +8.9.
• Graded well against the blitz (+9.0) and against a traditional rush (+8.5).
• Was at his best on 7-to-8-yard drop-backs (+15.7).
• Excelled in the 2.6-to 3.0-second range (+12.5).
• Graded at +18.1 when throwing to wide receivers (by alignment) including +9.5 to the slot and +8.6 to outside wide receivers.
• Best routes were hitches (+5.9) and go routes (+7.0).

Negatives

• Graded at -1.4 on designed rollouts.
• Posted an average +0.1 grade on passes in the 31-to-40-yard range.
• Graded at -0.9 on 4-to-6-yard drop-backs.
• Graded at -0.6 on slants and -0.9 on post routes.

Tendencies

• Faced the blitz only 27.6% of the time, eighth-lowest in the league.
• Above the league average with 21.4% of drop-backs coming in the 4-to-6-yard range.
• 17.3% of drop-backs lasted 3.1-3.5 seconds, highest percentage in the league.
• Threw only 40.1% of passes outside the numbers, sixth-lowest in the league.
• Threw 78.3% of passes to wide receivers (by alignment), fourth-highest in the league.
• Threw only 14.5% of passes to tight ends, tied for the lowest percentage in the league.
• 11.6% of targets were slants, second-highest in the league.

-------------------------------------------------------

Now this wasnt what we saw at all with the Bucs, he got hit early and often and his eyes went from focusing downfield to looking for pressure but nonetheless I think these stats are interesting.