DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs/Finals/NBA thread continued...

Marc Stein is the Roger Brown of ESPN

I don't know how I feel about the entire article but there is precedence with Lebron not getting along with his coaches....in fact, ALL OF THEM he has bumped heads with.

So if you don't like Stein fine, and if you don't like the article that is fine too...but then someone just needs to come out and call Stein a liar. He gave his account sitting right next to the team...Personally, I saw him multiple times on TV during the 6 games right next to the Cavs bench. He's claiming he saw something bad (as descripted) and I don't really doubt it.

Now for his analysis on other things like playing time and decision making, I think that is more objective.

Love was "the man" in Minnesota, and was miserable.

I would think that he would do as he has said, and continue to be part of a "Big 3" on a team with an excellent chance of winning it all at least a couple of times over the next 4 or 5 years. He is surrounded by talent, has excellent coaching, an owner committed to winning, and paying whatever that takes. Love has no reason to go anywhere.

Blatt's Thankless Job
I thought that this was a little more fairly written than the article that showed up yesterday. Blatt's job is to manage the team and coach

There were some hard truths laid forth on Thursday, centering on the relationship between LeBron James and the head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers, David Blatt. ESPN’s Marc Stein wrote that he saw James “emasculate” Blatt throughout the playoffs, calling plays and questioning decisions. Later in the day, Cavs general manager David Griffin stepped in front of Blatt, rushing to the coach’s defense and saying he and LeBron thought the coach had done a “hell of a job.”

Stein’s and Griffin’s statements don’t run in disagreement. In fact, they run in perfect accord. The Cavaliers’ decision to hire Blatt came prior to James returning to Cleveland. Many would argue Blatt wouldn’t have gotten this job had LeBron arrived first. Perhaps that’s right, but it runs counter to every coach LeBron has played for in his career.

Unlike Jordan or Kobe, LeBron hasn’t had his Phil Jackson. Unlike Duncan, there is no Gregg Popovich in James’ corner. A Popovich or Jackson has never existed in LeBron’s world, but then again, he’s never wanted one.

LeBron is good enough to call his shots, to draw up plays, maybe even draft a team. But he does lack one necessary ability required of a coach, and that’s managing personalities. Do you think LeBron wants to be the guy who tells Mike Miller he isn’t setting foot on the floor in Game 6 of the NBA Finals because he’s an old and tired shell of himself?

No.

What about the decision to cast Shawn Marion as Cleveland’s permanent playoff water boy? Do you think LeBron is inviting Marion into his office to deliver a couple John Wooden quotes about teamwork before delivering a gut punch that would make Shao Khan growl “finish him”?

Hell. No.

Enter David Blatt. Blatt was given the role of messenger, and now he is taking every shot fired in Cleveland’s direction. His role is necessary – essential – to LeBron and Cleveland’s success. Blatt is a smart man, and a good basketball coach. He isn’t an NBA great, and maybe he never will be, but he is savvy enough to know that the Cavaliers are not his team and LeBron is not his player.

Teams are led by stars but sustained by role players. People forget those role players extend beyond the court. Great teams need role players almost as much as they need stars. David Blatt’s role is thankless, but it’s necessary – even vital – to LeBron’s success.

Hilarious.

You can't just let him walk without trying to work something out.. hopefully somebody on his side of the table will be reasonable. It might come to whether he wants to play for championships or not. Surely he realizes he can't suck up too much cap money if we are also paying LeBron, Love, and Kyrie..

Not to mention, as has been stated, the kid is 24 and if over the next couple years he could develop a nice mid-range jump shot, his value would go up tremendously.

The Cavs need to re-sign Thompson if only because he is an asset. They can then trade him down the road if they need something else.

But, we all know what is going to happen. They are going to give him a ton of money. LeBron wants him back and he is represented by LRMR. He's going to get paid.

I really gotta wonder about Lebron. When he's in his late 30's, how's he gonna react when he has little to no say in how the franchise runs things? We better not let it be like a situation the Lakers are in with Kobe. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts when the Cavs get rid of his "buddies."

J/C

Anyone find our city a little hypocritical in regards to a stacked team in basketball? We complain about stacked teams in other sports, but yet we're happy with the one we have here in Cleveland.

What are you talking about? Other than Lebron signing with Cleveland, what did the Cavs do that didn't appear organically or through planning? It's not like the Heat where the guys got together and decided they were all going to play for the same team while still under contract. The Cavs used the assets they had to draft players, make trades, etc. It's just Lebron. And as we saw in the finals, it's *just* Lebron.

You're on a roll today.

Hey, I could go start a Chief Wahoo thread while I'm at it!

It's just I wish it was more LeBron, some above average roller players, and the players rallying around each other. Love and Kyrie seem like overkill, and too easy of a way to a championship. I would've appreciated a championship with the gritsquad much more than if/when we win it with Kyrie and Love healthy.

Kind of, but it's not exactly the same. I don't think LeBron, Kyrie, and Love sat around for a year and a half planning on how they could make this happen.. the opportunity presented itself and the pieces fell into place. Plus the Cavs gave up a ton of young talent to get what they got.. what did the Heat give up?

There is no such thing as a "too easy of a way to a champtionship..."

I'm sorry but that's just crazy. As long as rules aren't being broken then you do whatever you can to win as easily as possible...

If we're doing wishes, how about LeBron nails a buzzer beater in game 6 but rolls his ankle, and the rag tag bunch that's left squeezes out a game 7 win in Oracle?

Stack the Browns! I wanna find out how I would react.

Just win.

I think we only complain when it's baseball and their embarrassment of a system. Baseball fan will argue that teams that spend a lot in FA don't always win out in the end, but nobody can argue that it hurts the team that loses the FA. I feel like that point gets less attention than seeing a team like LA fail and have the blind faith baseball people go "SEE SEE, IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY!"

Basketball, hockey, and football all have fairly structured systems. You can argue about NBA players picking and choosing, but at least the system is in place. It could use some work, but it's better than baseball.

How many different baseball teams have won championships compared to the other sports? How many different teams have made the World Series?

MLB
8 Teams with No Wins
2 Teams with No Appearances

NFL
9 Teams with No Wins
4 Teams with No Appearances

NBA
13 Teams with No Wins
7 Teams with No Appearances

NHL
8 Teams with No Wins
4 Teams with No Appearances

That's interesting.

Mo Williams Interested in Return

Prepare the Godfather music and “goosey” three-point celebrations: Mo Williams is interested in re-joining the Cavs. The soon-to-be free agent point guard, who finished last season with the Charlotte Hornets after being traded by the Minnesota Timberwolves, is “more than interested” in coming back to Cleveland, according to NEOMG’s Chris Haynes.

The Cavaliers have an obvious need for a ball-handler capable of creating scoring opportunities for themselves and others. There’s a candidate exceedingly intrigued with potentially filling that void.

Soon-to-be unrestricted free agent point guard Mo Williams is “more than interested” in making a return to Cleveland, sources close to the guard informed Northeast Ohio Media Group. … Williams is seeking a multiyear deal and the Cavaliers and Hornets are two of the teams at the top of his wish list, a source revealed.


Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on him possibly coming back are. If he could give us good minutes and be a secondary scoring option off the bench, I think it would be interesting to have him back

he was a great starter during the regular season for us, dunno what happened in that playoffs though.

but off the bench pg? absolutely.

I would love to have Mo as a backup PG. He can hit shots, as well as distributing the ball.

I will never forget how he stood up for Cleveland when Lebron left. He was as strong an advocate for Cleveland as any athlete I can remember. (until Lebron returned)

Is he going to want to sign for a veteran minimum? Cause that's about all we can offer him. As a backup PG, he would be great. He had a game where he scored over 50 just this past season.

I haven't watched Mo play for a couple of years. Not sure how well he is playing. The 50 pts is impressive.

His defense was never that good and he kinda choked in the playoffs. However, I like the guy, he can handle it and shoot it. We also have a need to improve the PG position.

I think addressing the PG might be our trickiest issue this year. I believe we need a PG who can defend the quicker PG's in this league. I don't care much about scoring because we have so many scorers. I would like a guy who can penetrate and dish while playing tough defense.

What throws a monkey wrench into my thinking is a guy like would be fine if Kyrie stays healthy, but can we count on that happening?

The money is the big question.

Mo at least stays healthy, and he can consistently put points on the board.

just thinking out loud, but i wouldn't have a problem keeping 3 pg's on the squad, keeping delly, adding mo, and dropping a guy like Harris.

So MLB is basically the same as everyone else despite their salary cap situation?

We do have a lot of scorers, when they're healthy. I think Mo would be a good stop gap if either Kyrie or Kevin get hurt-maybe not both but he did have a good long range shot.

The NBA is different than any other league, because the best players have the biggest impact on the game. The best player can have the ball whenever he wants (as we've seen) whereas a QB can be much more dependent on system, talent around him, etc... The disparity between the elite players and the rest of the league is bigger than any other team sport.

My point was, how many times do you see baseball teams lose their best players in free agency, and struggle? For Every St. Louis, there are much more Miami Marlins type teams. We've seen our own teams roll out absolute embarrassments of payrolls. Wasn't there a bunch of teams under 50 one year? Not to mention I think it's fair to maybe look at these numbers after the explosions of salaries once the big markets got these lucrative TV deals (the Yankees with YES, and the Red Sox with NESN) How many teams have won/been in the WS since then?

I'd only take him as a last resort, or at the vet's minimum.

I think if we had him in this last series, you would have seen a lot of the same of what we saw. The only bonus is the rotation would have been one more, which would have been great.

I Just don't think we need any more catch and shoot guys. We need someone who can beat someone off the dribble to cause bodies to move, and help to be sent. That's when guys like JR and James Jones become effective.

When you have Lebron and Kyrie who can work the magic that they can, that makes the other guys lethal. It really hurts because this Cavs team was so damn good before everyone got hurt. Finding another guy who can break someone down is pretty difficult, because of our financial situation anyway, but we really need another good guard as an insurance policy on Kyrie Irving. If that means Delly has to go, than so be it. It's not his fault, it's just that he's more of a luxury to us than a necessity.

I know Delly is a fan favorite, but I am not sure I keep him. I am not saying we have to get rid of him, but we need more from that position, especially w/Kyrie's injury history.

I feel bad saying all that, and it is not meant to be mean, but it's just the way I feel.

Can't put ourselves in another situation where he's asked to play big minutes. The guy was spent after 3 games. Like I said, it's a luxury to have a guy on the bench who can come in and defend, and scrap for loose balls, but considering our starting point guard has a history at 22 or 23 years old, we need a better option.

The last year two years the Sixers struggled to get to the salary floor.

The YES Network started in 2002. Since then eight different teams have won the World Series (including the Marlins).

Every team in baseball is raking in money. Whether there owner spends it is the problem of that team's fans. It is the sport with the greatest parity.

Yeah. Like I said earlier, I think this is the trickiest move that we will have to make this off-season.

I think keeping Love and TT are a must.

JR should probably stay.

Probably going to have part ways w/Andy. I love the guy, but he isn't as good as TT.

I just don't know what to do at PG. If we would be reasonably sure that Kyrie would stay healthy, I would go w/one of those smaller, quicker PG's that defend well on the perimeter, penetrate, and dish......even if they aren't the best of shooters. That would be ideal.

However, w/Kyrie having an extensive injury history, we might have to look into a guy who step in and be a legit starter. That guy would also have to be a good perimeter shooter.

It's a very tough decision.

I said all that w/out any understanding of the cap and where we are in regards to that. So, don't blast me in the face w/it, but I would appreciate any knowledge you guys have in regards to our cap space.

This will probably be met w/scorn and revulsion, but you know what I would do [and I doubt if it is even possible] but I would love to trade Kyrie for Michael Conley. He is a great perimeter defender. He passes the ball. He is not a great shooter, but can make some 3s. He penetrates and dishes. I think he would be a better compliment to LeBron and Love than Kyrie is.

I understand that he isn't as dynamic, but I think he is more stable and gives us that perimeter defense we sorely need. Also, we should be able to get more than just him in return for Kyrie.

<<Ducks head>>

Kyrie is just too dynamic to give up on. The injury stuff is a worry, and I really wonder if he can make it through a grind like the Cavs went through in those first two rounds.

But guys of his skill level just don't grow on trees. It's the same thing a lot of us were saying when the debate was Kyrie and Derrick Williams. I think having a reliable option, managing Kyrie's minutes, and just hoping for a bit better fortune is our best option. I think whatever you think the best number of guys for an NBA rotation is, should be +1 because of Kyrie's history.

I don't think you need another all star behind him. Don't forget we do have Lebron. We just need someone who can get Lebron away from the ball, and start working an offense. I think last series got to the point where Lebron could not trust Delly running the offense so much, due to fatigue and skill level.

I'm not worried about it, like I said, we've got good people running this show. Cavs will be good next year, and I think the entire team will look much better out of the gate, and I think David Blatt will have a totally diferent philosophy towards the regular season. They're gonna shoot for a number one seed, but they're not going to kill themselves getting there.

As usual, good post and thanks for not ripping my head off about the trade.

I have just been thinking about this for awhile now. I watched Conley give Curry some real headaches earlier in the playoffs.

People like to blame our low post players for our defensive problems, but I think the real problem is that our perimeter defense is really poor. Shump certainly helped, but Kyrie is a defensive liability and Delly just lacks the quickness to stay w/quicker PGs. I think it is really important to improve defensively at that position.

kyrie's defense has gotten better every year though. and his scoring offsets his defensive liability for the most part.

you're right, conley was taking Curry to work sometimes. a healthy kyrie? man....

His defense has improved.

That trade will never happen. It's just what I would try to do if I was running the show.

Good thing I am not, huh?

Sick to my stomach thinking about how good KI was in game 1. Just so damn good. 23 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals and what would have been the defensive play of the game had Lebron or Shump hit their following shots.

There's plenty of that around here, no need for any more of it. The ignore button has been an amazing thing.