DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued x2

Really? I didn't know that. Thanks for the knowledge.




Why? Because they drafted Johnny over Teddy, Carr, and Jimmy G? Because they brought in McCown? Because they were willing to give a first for Bradford and perhaps wanted to trade up for Mariota? I don't trust them at all in terms of evaluating qbs.




I have not written him off. Where did I say that I have?

How old are you?

Well, since he just started, It is still to be determined. This is his 1st year with us, so anything he has done before does not count. I've said it before and I'll say it again, If their "BROWNS" then their worthy, If their not, then they aint worth squat.

How did he finish last year? He was 1 and 10 as a starter, so how well did he finish?

Old enough not to get SUSPENDED for name calling like a child, can you say the same?

well i guess if we got jamarcus russell he would be worthy too by what you think?

You can't remember which post you replied to and you then try to blame me? The bartender should cut you off at this point.

Thanks for answering my question.

you know the guy. just trolls until he pisses you off enough to get ban lol.

Says the POT to the Kettle!

not going to work lol. but it would help if you could talk football.

I asked BTTB a QB question it was you and Vers who started the SNIDE comments to me first so you got them in return.

you asked why people wanted hoyer and bradford. and i put up tape why. now if you want to cry about go ahead. lmao.

It's the Vambo run where he tries to ruin a thread because there is actually some intelligent conversation going on. Just ignore him. I messed up by asking him that question. I meant it in a nice way, because I wasn't going to blast him if he was 10 or 12 years old, but I got his typical response that answered nothing.

You're wrong go back and look the Bradford post was after your video reply so how could you have been replying to something that had not been posted yet?


#970026 - 06/20/15 06:55 PM Re: Johnny Manziel...continued x2 [Re: Vambo]
pblack18707

#970027 - 06/20/15 06:56 PM Re: Johnny Manziel...continued x2 [Re: Brown to the Bone]
Vambo

You asked a snide question you got a snide reply.

sure was. and i just put the vid up and not a word. most would figure it out. but then you brought up bradford and i had to explain like i do to every slow person out of the kindness of my heart.

So basically you LIED when you said you were replying to the Bradford post because it wasn't POSTED YET!

And now you are trying to cover your LIES with more LIES!

IGNORE HIM!

That's it Vers you and other posters pile on one poster because they don't share your OPINION!

i replied to the bradford post 4 minutes after you brought it up. like i said your way to slow to talk real football.

It's a shame you don't take your own advice...

hard to ignore a lie.

You put up vids that had nothing to do with the question I posted how did you talk football? Then you lied about your reply again where was the footbal? Next Vers and you pile on me making SNIDE remarks because I don't share your OPINION wheres the football?

Where's the FOOTBALL?

at 655 you were asking why people wanted hoyer instead of mccown. so i put up video and no words. would think anyone that knows football would figure it out without words.



then you brought up bradford.



and 4 minutes later i try to explain it to you like i would any slow person.

the vid.

The vid had nothing to do with the question asked it was your way of trolling an attempt to put McCown down when the question was about Hoyer.

It was your version of SMACK.

Keep trying to get out of your LIE it's amusing.

come on guys, arguing between Hoyer and McCown is like arguing what flavor of turd tastes the best.

JC

I will NEVER understand why the fans in Cleveland so hate Hoyer. After having season after season of losing, and just having a basic understanding of how hard it is to even have a serviceable QB and to win games and be happy to turn the game on come Sunday afternoon is a treat.

Not to mention he was the 1st true team leader QB we have had in well forever it seems. He was the guy that showed us what it feels like to win, to have a chance to win, to finally break the losing streak we have been on for well what seems like forever.

And you all seem so set on flipping me over to going back to what we were, or have been. I will forever be thankful for what Hoyer brought to the Browns, winning football, and we toss that away for a career loser. I like having a chance, at least we had that with Hoyer can’t you see that?

Hell he may not ever get us to the Promised Land but at least we weren’t and won’t be door mats, he proved that if he didn’t prove anything else.

Someone asked the question why did you want Bradford? Because Bradford is a franchise QB, he is the guy that WILL get us to the Promised Land. He has mad skills and an injury history to go along with it. But he gives us a chance to win big, and I will always take a risk to win BIG.

Plodding along building it the right way is meaningless without a QB. It’s the kind of statement made up to cover for losing and not addressing what’s wrong. Just like the minimize the QB statement it’s just garbage.

Someone said it the other day every off season we get all pumped up the coaches tell us how great and hard the team is working and everything is good to go, then the season starts.

Rish said Mike Tyson said,”Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” and that describes the Browns off season hype to a tee for far too long. We are great right up until the games start then we suck. I like at least having a chance Hoyer gave us that if nothing else.

When was the last time we had a meaningful game in December? Hoyer got us right there he gave us that good feeling hell he had us in 1st place in the north I think for the 1st time EVER in November of all times. We had a shot.

Oft time’s players and team bump their heads a few times before kicking down the door. It takes time and experience to kick down hurdles last season we kicked a good part of the losing culture to the curb and Hoyer was one of the leaders who helped make that happen.

But he isn’t good enough guys like Hoyer grow on trees according to most of the members of this board, but if that were so then please, please, please, explain to me the past 15 years?

We finally actually move forward in a meaningful way then we promptly take it apart not for something anyone can look at and say yes this is better. Hell most of you are just hoping we can get back to 7-9, Why wouldn’t you look at it and say we won 7 how do we make that better? Yeah a better QB would be a great place to start, but what real options did we have?

Then you sit down and say to yourself what helped us get out of the hole or helped get us started out of the hole. What was the key? Who were the leaders that helped start to bring about that change? Pet certainly would be a big one, and so would JT and JH and KD and Whitner, and yes guys the Biggy was Hoyer they all every single one of the team leaders rallied around Hoyer on both sides of the ball.

In fact I can’t remember a Browns team being so united behind a single player as much as this team was behind Hoyer. It wasn’t because of the support he enjoyed from the FO nor the coaching staff that came from Hoyer there was something about the guy that caused his team mates to rally to his side. Didn't you notice??

When the defense made a big play they didn’t run to the HC they ran to Hoyer they rallied around him, and you think we will get that with McCown?

Vers said it you could see the intensity the drive the desire rise in the team when Hoyer was on the field. Why would you toss that away? What is the logic?

We have struggled for so long to break loose from losing and we are right there and we toss the key ingredient in the trash for what why? Because it has to be better right?

I will play along my one requirement is it has to be better! Well it isn’t and that’s not according to me that’s according to most of you.

So you see I really only want to break loose from losing Hoyer had us moving in that direction, if we couldn’t get a better QB option (Bradford) then the smart the wise thing would have been to build around Hoyer and wait for a better option to arrive.

But maybe my 1st reaction was the correct one this season isn’t about winning its about positioning ourselves for next year’s draft and that makes me both sad and mad.

My point had nothing to do with McCown, my point was Hoyer be he gods greatest gift to football or a bum doesn't matter he's gone nothing he does will help the Browns win football games.

McCown is what the Browns have complaining the front office screwed up not resigning him is moot, unless there is a viable option to get a better QB than McCown there's no point in getting worked up about it.

And no we didn't already have one in Hoyer.

Doesn't sound like he's asking any players to stick around. Why is it a big deal if he doesn't ask Manziel?

Reading this I see Derek Anderson all over again, just don't see Hoyer as a QB to build around. I'd rather give the Browns FO and Coaches the time to build the team as they see it I've wait this long, that's just me and I am not putting you down for your opinion.

It is not that people hate Hoyer, we simply see him for what he was ..... which was good until the league caught up to him, and then he became an awful QB.

In his final 9 starts, Hoyer threw 5 TD and 12 INT. In our final 4 wins, Hoyer threw 3 TD and 5 INT. The only game in his final 9 in which he threw 2 TD passes was against Tampa Bay, and they stunk on defense.

Hoyer started out the year beautifully, with 7 TD and only 1 INT in his 1st 5 starts. He had passes that looked like punts, and he has sure INTs dropped, but a QB usually is what his stats say he is over the course of an entire season. After the 1st 5 games, things swung back. INTs were caught. He got sloppy. His footwork went to pieces. I almost think that the Steelers game, where almost every pass went for a big play, was the worst thing that could have happened to Hoyer. He was never the same after that. I think that he started to look at himself differently after that game, and it really was downhill from there.

Totally agree with all of your comments. I liked Hoyer, but he was not the long term answer for us. Too inconsistent and very lucky that more of his poor throws weren't intercepted.

IMO, McCown and Hoyer are very similar in QB play, stats, leadership, competitiveness, etc.,. The problem is that Hoyer believes he is a long term starter, and didn't show the willingness to mentor our younger QBs (just like Seneca Wallace did w/Colt McCoy). McCown on the other hand knows he can start, but understands his "stop-gap" role while mentoring our younger QBs. That's one of the main reasons, I believe, that led to Hoyer's release.

No doubt we are moving in the right direction and will definitely be a better team this year!

GO BROWNS!!!

I did not like the idea of Manziel playing last year. I thought then, and still think, that Manziel has a lot to learn before he ever gets into another NFL game. I definitely wanted Hoyer to win the starting QB role, but I was not encouraged by what I saw in preseason or in early season games.

I did see Hoyer win games. I saw Hoyer be very lucky with possible INTs. I saw long passes that the receivers had to wait for, but were caught and not intercepted. The Browns were winning and I was happy. However, I suffered from Battered Browns Fan syndrome.. meaning I could see so many ways things could go wrong. Could Hoyer remain charmed? Could those dropped, or misplayed, possible INTs continue to get dropped?

I have seen every Browns QB since Milt Plum play. That is more than 50 years of QBs. What I saw with Hoyer had me very uneasy. People talk about Hoyer as being a winner. To me, Hoyer was a hope for stability.

Hoyer had me very worried. In my eyeball test I felt Hoyer was more Mike Phipps or Paul McDonald than Milt Plum, Frank Ryan or Bernie Kosar. I watched Hoyer play waiting for the other shoe to drop, while hoping the charmed life would continue, similar to the way DA was charmed in 2007. Unfortunately it didn't happen... The TD to INT ratio plummeted along with a breakdown in footwork and the way he handled the pressure.

Mike Phipps led to Brian Sipe... Paul McDonald led to Bernie Kosar.. Hopefully Brian Hoyer/Manziel/etc will lead to another Pro Bowl or Championship QB..

I am a lifetime Browns fan. I do not "hate" any Browns QB. However, when a QB does not pass the eyeball test, I feel it is time to move on. If Hoyer were still here, I would root for him just as hard as I rooted for Plum.. Ryan.. Phipps.. Sipe.. McDonald.. Kosar.. Testeverde.. Couch.. and all the others.

Hoyer is not here now. I wish he had been as good as Plum, Ryan, Sipe, or Kosar, but he was not. I know these are old names and most on the board only know them from old stat pages or black & white film. It just goes to show how long it has taken to find another franchise QB. It is time to move on and find the next Plum, Ryan, Sipe or Kosar.

Maybe it won't take much longer...

Guess you didn't read my post. It does not matter, last year is last year. He's a Brown now, only what he does from here on out is what counts. Like I said, If their not a Brown, I don't waste my time.

Thanks for clarifying that your opinion is not based on logic, thus we can take it for what it's worth.

I haven't lost all hope w/Manziel, but I don't see any logic whatsoever in you losing all hope because of a 4 game stretch, while ignoring his overall 10 and 6 record as a starter.

I think it comes down to this w/you. He's gone, so you are bad-mouthing him. You can't ever even acknowledge that perhaps the FO made the wrong decision. You are one of the guys [unlike Rish and Pit] who have paint each and every move all good or all bad.

I don't find any objectivity in that and it's hard to take your opinion seriously.

Watch, I'll use myself as an example on Farmer's moves. Ready?

--Drafting Johnny over Teddy was a terrible move.
--Drafting Bitonio was an excellent move.
--Choosing Gilbert that high doesn't appear to be a good move at this time.
--Bringing in Whit and letting go of TJ Ward was a good move.
--Replacing DQ w/Dansby was a very good move.
--Not rewarding Gipson was a bad move.
--Signing Hartline was a good move.
--Letting Skrine walk was not a good move.
--Finding Crow was an excellent move.
--Making a trade to get West was confusing to me.
--Getting Williams as an undrafted FA was awesome.
--I don't like the Desir pick.
--Love the Shelton pick.


Do you see how there is balance there? Some excellent moves, some very good moves, some good moves, some dumb moves, some terrible moves, and a confusing move.

Yet, you guys simply dismiss all my negative insights by labeling me a "hater."

On the other hand, there are is a large group of guys like you who feel the need to praise every move we make and knock down anyone who doesn't feel the same way.

It's hard to take that approach seriously because there is absolutely no balance. It would be nice if we could judge each move on its own merits rather than say "every move he makes is great," or "every move he makes is stupid."