|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927 |
A little perspective... as many of us are calling for vengeance and immediate death to Dylann Roof, some families of the victims are calling for forgiveness... Families of Charleston shooting victims to Dylann Roof: We forgive you ‘You hurt me. You hurt a lot of people. But God forgives you. I forgive you.’ By Dylan Stableford 1 hour ago Relatives of the Charleston church shooting victims gave emotional statements during Dylann Roof’s initial court appearance Friday, some of them breaking into sobs as one after another they told the man suspected of killing their loved ones that they forgive him. “You took something really precious from me. I will never talk to her again,” the daughter of 70-year-old Ethel Lance, one of nine people killed in Wednesday's massacre, said. “But I forgive you and have mercy on your soul. You hurt me. You hurt a lot of people. But God forgives you. I forgive you.” Felecia Sanders, mother of the youngest victim, 26-year-old Tywanza Sanders, also spoke. “Every fiber in my body hurts,” Sanders said, “and I will never be the same.” Roof is accused of carrying out the killings during a Bible study session inside Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church Wednesday night in what investigators are treating as a hate crime. Sanders survived the shooting by playing dead. “We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most beautifulest people that I know,” she said in court. “As we said in the Bible study, we enjoyed you, but may God have mercy on you.” Flanked by two officers in flak jackets, Roof appeared in court via a closed-circuit video link from a holding cell inside the Charleston County jail. The 21-year-old was charged Friday with nine counts of murder and one firearms charge. Roof answered a few questions from the judge, confirming his address, age and that he is not employed. He looked down as the family members spoke, but did not show emotion. “I forgive you, and my family forgives you,” Anthony Thompson, the husband of 59-year-old Myra Thompson, said. “But we would like you take this opportunity to repent. Change your ways.” “Although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate, this is proof, everyone’s plea for your soul is proof they lived in love and their legacies will live in love,” the grandson of 74-year-old Daniel Simmons said. “So hate won't win.” “A hateful person came to this community with some crazy idea he’d be able to divide, but all he did was unite us and make us love each other even more,” Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr. told the Associated Press. Forgiving Roof, though, hasn’t been easy for everyone. “For me, I am a work in progress,” admitted a relative of 49-year-old Depayne Middleton Doctor. “I am very angry, [but] we are the family that love built. We have no room for hate, so I have to forgive.” God Bless Them because I don't know if I would have that much strength. Edit.. at least not this soon. I am quoting this, because it is so amazingly Christian. What a marvelous group of people, who I am extremely proud to call my brothers and sisters in Christ. I agree with you, in that I would have a problem forgiving someone who did such a thing, especially this soon. I will say this, though .... I need to follow their example. If they can forgive this, then how can I do any less for anyone who does something to me? We have no idea why things happen in this world. Tragedy struck these families in one of the most brutal fashions imaginable, but hopefully God will bless these people and their families from here out, long into the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
you wanted a better source, here it is Erik: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths http://news.yahoo.com/nra-executive-suggests-slain-charleston-pastor-blame-gun-043458974.htmlDALLAS (Reuters) - A National Rifle Association executive in Texas has come under fire for suggesting that a South Carolina lawmaker and pastor slain with eight members of his congregation bears some of the blame for his opposition to permitting concealed handguns in church. Houston-based lawyer Charles Cotton, listed as a national NRA board member on the gun lobby's website, made the comments in an online chat room he administers called texaschlforum.com, a discussion board devoted to gun rights and firearms issues. In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches. "Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote. The comments, since deleted from the online forum but ricocheted across social media in cached versions, triggered a torrent of online condemnation, with hundreds of posts bombarding Cotton's Twitter handle branding him a "monster" and "insensitive." The online Christian social justice organization Faithful America launched an online campaign seeking 15,000 signatures for a petition demanding that the NRA remove Cotton from its board and apologize for his remarks. Cotton did not respond to requests from Reuters seeking comment.But The Washington Post quoted him on Friday as saying that the online discussion that generated the controversy was about the pros and cons of "gun-free zones," and his comments were made as a private citizen."It's my opinion that there should not be any gun-free zones in schools or churches or anywhere else. If we look at mass shootings that occur, most happen in gun-free zones," he told the newspaper. Authorities have said the suspected gunman in the Charleston shooting, Dylann Roof, 21, who is white, spent an hour in Bible study with black parishioners at the nearly 200-year-old church before opening fire on them. He was charged with nine counts of murder and a weapons offense on Friday, a day after his arrest in North Carolina. The U.S. Justice Department said it is investigating the church attack as both a hate crime and potential act of terrorism. (Editing by Steve Gorman)
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I'm just glad the white boy was able to keep his humanity throughout the media circus. I can't wait to hear how he was awuiet boy and loved cult movies, like American History X because, "Edward Norton is just such a talented actor with unlimited rave. Plus he knows how to really stomp his competition."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765 |
Violence? In that instance, the gun would be used for JUSTICE. Something most criminals these days don't seem to have fear over. If it's justice you're after, then Opie enduring the horrors of a rugged federal prison that he's quite obviously unequipped to handle the rigors of will do just fine. A bullet to the head would be a compassionate act of mercy for him at this point. Opie will be a hero in prison with the Aryans. And yet, they'll still rape him. Honor amongst sociopaths isn't all it's cracked up to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
YTown, question for you.
I agree as Christians we need to forgive because we will be judged as we have judged. I have always asked for forgiveness while repenting so I was wondering if it makes sense to forgive before the offender has said he was sorry and asked for forgiveness?
The offender may actually be happy with what he did and is looking to do it to you again. I will always forgive when asked by a repentant person but always wondered if it is best to wait until asked.
What thinkith thou?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Do you forgive to release the burden from your own heart or from others?
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,172
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,172 |
call it mental illness, call it whatever you want.. I'll appeal to all the Christians in our group to stand up with me, and call it what it really is: "Evil." Sometimes, it's just that simple. There are plenty of citizens who are battling mental illness issues who never commit violence against another. A person can be mentally unsound AND evil... the two aren't mutually exclusive. .02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927 |
YTown, question for you.
I agree as Christians we need to forgive because we will be judged as we have judged. I have always asked for forgiveness while repenting so I was wondering if it makes sense to forgive before the offender has said he was sorry and asked for forgiveness?
The offender may actually be happy with what he did and is looking to do it to you again. I will always forgive when asked by a repentant person but always wondered if it is best to wait until asked.
What thinkith thou? Stephen forgave those who stoned him to death, while they were killing him. Jesus forgave those who killed him while He hung on the cross. Jesus never said that we have to wait for the person who wronged us to repent before we forgive them. (at least not to my knowledge) Matthew 6:14-15 says: For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.Matthew 18: 21-22 says: Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times? “Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”Now this 2nd one says "brother", but I think that the point is there regardless. Luke 6:37 says: Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.Romans 12: 17-21 says: Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.We all are sinners, and yet God has chosen to forgive those who ask Him for forgiveness through Jesus Christ. CS Lewis out it this way: To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you. I think that says it all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Do you forgive to release the burden from your own heart or from others? Both.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Good Answer! I got it now. Forgive, period. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927 |
call it mental illness, call it whatever you want.. I'll appeal to all the Christians in our group to stand up with me, and call it what it really is: "Evil." Sometimes, it's just that simple. There are plenty of citizens who are battling mental illness issues who never commit violence against another. A person can be mentally unsound AND evil... the two aren't mutually exclusive. .02 I absolutely believe in the presence of evil in this world, and it appears that some people are simply evil. However, can they be forgiven by God if they repent their sins and accept Christ as Lord and Savior? Yes they can. There are jailhouse conversions that take place. Whether or not they are truly repentant is between them and God, but if they truly do repent and accept Jesus, then they can be forgiven no matter what they did. I do almost believe that demonic possession still occur sometimes, especially when people do these truly evil things that are completely unimaginable for most people.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
As I said in my first post on page one...
A classic case of Good vs Evil.
Good was doing as Good does when Evil lashed out in hate and rage
to devour the Good. Sad but eternal. May God bless them all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927 |
Do you forgive to release the burden from your own heart or from others? That is a good question. We should forgive because we have been forgiven of a lifetime of sins by God Himself. I think that should be our motivation, and the release of the burden from our own hearts is a positive secondary effect of doing so. That is my belief anyway. Jesus could have just told us to forgive others, period, but I think that He knew that we needed to learn to forgive others, at least at 1st. Because of this, He gave us that added push to get us in a forgiving mind. Once we start to forgive others, it becomes easier to do so in all kinds of different situations.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041 |
Not sure if this has been posted yet but you can't make this up.. Judge keeps calling this monster a young man and is very sympathetic and wants us to "think about" the other victims which are this monsters family. Who cares about the dozens if not hundreds life this monster affected. I just don't know what to think anymore. There is video at the link, someone can embed if they like. We have victims — nine of them. But we also have victims on the other side,” Gosnell said. “Nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they are being thrown into. We must find it in our heart at some point in time not only to help those that are victims but to also help his family as well.” Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2187073/charles...ItEvftbPyjcU.99Edit-- Forget he droped the N-Bomb in court before.. icing on the cake!
Last edited by Lurker; 06/20/15 04:59 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
Interesting. Hear me out.
On one hand, Roof's family members ARE victims of something they didn't see coming, want, etc.
On the other hand - they are alive. The TRUE victims are, obviously, those killed, and their family members.
I get what the judge was saying - but man, wrong place to say it. Absolutely wrong. What he was thinking I have no idea.
Maybe after the trial he could've said that? Maybe it didn't even need to EVER be said...........but at the intitial arraignment? Wrong.
And I give kudo's to those family members that did speak. A huge "thumbs up", "hugs".....to them. I'm not sure I could deal with it with as much grace as they did.
My understanding is this judge won't be the judge in the actual trial - is that right?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765 |
Is the thought of sympathy for the family of the killer so taboo that we feel the need to be politically correct about it? Frankly, I think political correctness has run amok. I don't see what's so distasteful about expressing sympathy towards the parents of the killer, unless we come to find that the parents had some profound influence on his racial hatred.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
I agree........I'm just not certain that at the initial arraignment it should be the leading comment from the judge.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765 |
Why not? In a lot of ways, a judge is elected to be a moral compass or arbiter. I see nothing wrong with opening with "I feel for the killer's family". The family members did the very same. If a judge can't come out and say something like that without ruffling feathers, then maybe it's the fowl that's the problem.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
First, I think everyone can agree that, regardless of your thoughts on the family, the judge was stupid to bring it up and I bet he was doing it to get an emotional reaction out of the perpetrator.
In some cases, sympathy for the family is warranted. In a case where the family was "not surprised" his story ended in violence, yet they bought him a .45 for his last birthday, the family is an accomplice, not a victim.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I feel like expressing sympathy for the family is more a residual of political correctness than a departure from it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765 |
I feel like expressing sympathy for the family is more a residual of political correctness than a departure from it. As an agnostic, I feel like it's the Christian thing to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
A woman at the church today asked the Press, "Is this just the beginning? Are more shooters coming? Are we having a Civil/Race war now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
K - I've read that HE bought the gun with money from his birthday - and I've read that his dad bought the gun for him.
What is it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198 |
jc
I don't understand the need to discuss Christianity in this case. The family forgave and that's their right. To me that ends any discussion of religious morality in this case.
This incident had nothing to do with religion. It was a terrorist attack on black people. This db is a brainwashed terrorist no different than anybody who flew a plane into a building.
Fortunately for him he didn't have to take flying lessons. All he needed was an available firearm.
Lucky he lives in a land where gun violence encourages selling and buying more guns. How did he have any right to own a gun if it's true that he's mentally ill. Personally I think he's as mentally ill as any suicide bomber. He's a dbag terrorist.
We should discuss how we're going to protect ourselves, and don't say buy guns because that remedy has proven to be a sad and dangerous myth which has led us further down the path of allowing those who justify themselves to shoot people to get all the guns and ammo they can ever desire to do so.
jmho
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,174
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,174 |
jc
We should discuss how we're going to protect ourselves, and don't say buy guns because that remedy has proven to be a sad and dangerous myth which has led us further down the path of allowing those who justify themselves to shoot people to get all the guns and ammo they can ever desire to do so.
jmho
Don't say by making more laws because criminals don't follow laws.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
It would be neat if we could just make a law that said "shooting someone is illegal - don't do it or else". Oh, wait - we have a law against murder. And laws about using a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those working out?
Better yet - let's make a law that criminals can't have guns. Uh - oops - we already have that law.
Well, let's make a law that every gun in private possession in this country has to be turned in to the authorities. That ought to do it.
Hold on - ban all guns? Sure. See who still has them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,927 |
I thought that this was rather kind. It's not a huge amount, but it will certainly help those families with some of the expenses associated with this tragedy. Carolina Panthers, owner Jerry Richardson donate $100,000 to families of shooting victims - Post and Courier http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20...hooting-victimsChurch shooting victims. The Charlotte-based NFL team announced the gift in a letter dated Friday to state Rep. Bakari Sellers, who’s collecting donations on behalf of the Mother Emanuel Hope Fund. The donation provides $10,000 to each of the families to help defray funeral costs and other expenses. The other $10,000 goes to the Calhoun Street church as a memorial honoring the victims. “Our hearts are one with those who grieve the loss of these individuals,” Richardson wrote. The NFL team owner is a North Carolina native with has strong ties to South Carolina. He played football at Wofford College in the Upstate and later he was chairman and CEO of Spartanburg-based Flagstar, which operated about 2,500 restaurants.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
My prayer today is for Peace.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041 |
Interesting. Hear me out.
On one hand, Roof's family members ARE victims of something they didn't see coming, want, etc.
On the other hand - they are alive. The TRUE victims are, obviously, those killed, and their family members.
I get what the judge was saying - but man, wrong place to say it. Absolutely wrong. What he was thinking I have no idea.
Maybe after the trial he could've said that? Maybe it didn't even need to EVER be said...........but at the intitial arraignment? Wrong.
And I give kudo's to those family members that did speak. A huge "thumbs up", "hugs".....to them. I'm not sure I could deal with it with as much grace as they did.
My understanding is this judge won't be the judge in the actual trial - is that right? It just seems the judge put more emphasis on this monsters family instead of the true victims of the situation. The only explanation is that he had other motives that he wanted to express and this was a great platform to say it. Completely uncalled for after this coward murdered 9 innocent people.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 765 |
I guess I just don't see it as uncalled for, or even unprecedented for that matter. As I said earlier, my only issue would be making sure the facts being reported are true. You wouldn't want it to surface that the father was a grand wizard or something. But by all accounts, it looks like he came from a normal family who attempted to instill values in him. And the father, upon recognizing his son on the video footage, called the police to alert them of his identity. Immediately afterwards they released statements of horrified regret and apology. I feel sorry for the man and his wife, and I don't think it's in poor taste to express as much, whether it be a presiding judge or a guy drinking coffee in a bathrobe on his laptop.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
We should discuss how we're going to protect ourselves, and don't say buy guns because that remedy has proven to be a sad and dangerous myth which has led us further down the path of allowing those who justify themselves to shoot people to get all the guns and ammo they can ever desire to do so.
jmho
Just what would you have people do to protect themselves? If all guns (in a fictional world) were collected and destroyed with no way of making any more, I would expect people to carry swords and other blades as they did in the past. I'm sure a dedicated mass murderer could walk a katana into a kindergarten class, and he'd still be able to kill all the children in about 30-60 seconds. Explosives might become the new normal for mass killings. A gun is the most efficient way to kill someone, but it is also the most efficient to defend one's self.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198 |
I'm not sure where you get collect and destroy them all from. Is that the same fictional paranoia, which leads to the idea of buying more guns to stop killing sprees with guns?
We all know the definition of insanity and that's pretty much what's happening. Repeating the more guns mantra and frantic gun and ammo consumption has done zero to protect us.
There are a lot of people who believe this repetition has put where we are now. Who would have thought when we were growing that a pastor would be criticized for not carrying a gun in church? Insane.
There is no conclusive evidence to believe the myth of a bad person with a gun has is stopped by a good person with a gun.
We currently have enough guns for nearly every citizen in this country and the number of sprees is only increasing.
What's your answer to stop this terrorism?
And could you please post evidence of the increasing number of sword attack killing sprees or knife attack killing sprees or hatchet attack killing sprees or automobile attack killing sprees?
We're being attacked by guns not any of these items used to deflect from the true issue.
Last edited by rockdogg; 06/21/15 04:30 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198 |
It would be neat if we could just make a law that said "shooting someone is illegal - don't do it or else". Oh, wait - we have a law against murder. And laws about using a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those working out?
Better yet - let's make a law that criminals can't have guns. Uh - oops - we already have that law.
Well, let's make a law that every gun in private possession in this country has to be turned in to the authorities. That ought to do it.
Hold on - ban all guns? Sure. See who still has them. Why are you even saying these things are an option? Your response is not a discussion. Nobody is suggesting the final solutions you suggest, but if I were to do the same then let me ask should we just put assault rifles in the school vending machines?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
We should discuss how we're going to protect ourselves, and don't say buy guns because that remedy has proven to be a sad and dangerous myth which has led us further down the path of allowing those who justify themselves to shoot people to get all the guns and ammo they can ever desire to do so.
jmho
Just what would you have people do to protect themselves? If all guns (in a fictional world) were collected and destroyed with no way of making any more, I would expect people to carry swords and other blades as they did in the past. I'm sure a dedicated mass murderer could walk a katana into a kindergarten class, and he'd still be able to kill all the children in about 30-60 seconds. Explosives might become the new normal for mass killings. A gun is the most efficient way to kill someone, but it is also the most efficient to defend one's self. that's absolutely false, and i saw you didn't want to respond to me calling you out on the knife stuff. humans not only can take stab wounds at a decent rate, i have a much better chance defending myself in melee combat that with guns. that's a fact. somebody can stab me in the back, guess what? my chance of survival is still higher than if a criminal, which most do, have the element of surprise and SHOOTS somebody. the way you talk about this lets me know you've never been in a gun fight.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Hahahahaha not even Sir Lancelot could butcher 30 kids in a minute. Someone has been watching too much Star Wars.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
Who were you replying to?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
It would be neat if we could just make a law that said "shooting someone is illegal - don't do it or else". Oh, wait - we have a law against murder. And laws about using a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those working out?
Better yet - let's make a law that criminals can't have guns. Uh - oops - we already have that law.
Well, let's make a law that every gun in private possession in this country has to be turned in to the authorities. That ought to do it.
Hold on - ban all guns? Sure. See who still has them. Why are you even saying these things are an option? Your response is not a discussion. Nobody is suggesting the final solutions you suggest, but if I were to do the same then let me ask should we just put assault rifles in the school vending machines? No - don't put assault rifles in school vending machines. Schools are off limits for guns - even for concealed carry licensees. Question: How many laws did the church shooter break? What new law would've stopped the guy? Serious questions. Let's start there, then move forward.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,435
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,435 |
Question: How many laws did the church shooter break? What new law would've stopped the guy? Serious questions. Let's start there, then move forward.
I certainly believe you make a valid arguement with this point.
I've seen the saying that Cain killed Abel with a rock, not a gun. It's a heart issue, not a gun control issue.
I don't personally think gun control laws are going to prevent people from hating others and wanting to kill them...
BUT....
I do think that gun control laws should be stricter.
Raise the age limit in which you can purchase them. Deeper and more thorough background checks including criminal and medical records. Hell, I'm not even really opposed to making people take lie detector and or drug tests to get them.
I fully understand that crazy people will still get their hands on guns, but if you can make it harder to obtain them, it COULD save lives and prevent people from getting them in the future.
Honestly, I'm glad it's not me who has to make these kind of decisions.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
I have to ask again - Who are you replying to? (I know it's me you are replying to.........but come on people, is it really that tough to hit "reply" as opposed to the quick reply?)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
There is no conclusive evidence to believe the myth of a bad person with a gun has is stopped by a good person with a gun.
Cato Institute study says armed citizens prevent thousands of crimes Researchers at the Cato Institute have reviewed eight years worth of news reports about shooting in self-defense and conclude, "the vast majority of gun owners are ethical and competent, and tens of thousands of crimes are prevented each year by ordinary citizens with guns." The libertarian Washington, D.C. think tank has released "Tough Targets: When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens," just a few days after Wisconsin's first instance of a concealed carry permit holder shooting at an armed robber, at a Milwaukee grocery store. In fact, the incident is already on the Cato Institute's interactive map that accompanies the report. The report's authors argue that because only when a citizen actually shoots a criminal subject does the incident make the news, there are likely thousands of times when the mere display of a legal weapon stops a crime from happening. But the study also acknowledges that prior estimates range widely, from less than a million to more than 2 million a year. So the authors instead turn to about 5,000 news reports of defensive gun use to draw conclusions about the actors, their circumstances, motivations and outcomes. While concealed carry proponents will likely see the collection as a kind of greatest hits of the 2nd Amendment, there are are few counter-examples. "Not every defensive gun use ends well— the data set identifies 36 incidents in which a defender was killed," the report states. Analysis and history accounts for about a third of the 58-page report, while short summaries of defensive shooting makes up the rest. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/138894094.html
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Shooting suspect in custody after
Charleston church massacre
|
|
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
