DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs/Finals/NBA thread continued...

More money is my assumption. I think with them becoming a FA, but us having bird rights, they can re-sign with more money with Cleveland than any other team. Plus in one year, I pretty sure contract will change that will offer players more revenue from league profits (or something like that)

Someone please feel free to swoop in and correct me.

We dont have LeBrons Bird Rights.

Well that was quick!

Because they can get a bigger raise. Even without Bird-rights, a player can get a 20% raise on his previous salary if he re-signs with his current team. A year-to-year raise on a multi-year contract can only be something like 4%.

Oh it's more than half.

I can agree with almost all of what Phil said.. If they called travelling every time it happened it would really disrupt the game until the players got used to it.... I also agree with the posters, it's not just LeBron. I think he just used LeBron as the highest profile person to call out.

It's almost impossible to play good straight up defense in the NBA these days... the guy with the ball always gets an extra step and they never call illegal screens unless you actually clock somebody with an elbow... step up, put your feet 5 feet apart, and then turn your butt into them as they try to get by you to push them further off line... They also get the block/charge foul wrong about 80% of the time too in my opinion..

James will definitely sign a 2 year deal with the 2nd year being a player option. That allows him to fully exploit the anticipated cap explosion that is coming in the 2016 off-season.

Love might, or he might want the security of a long term deal right now. I hope he does, but he would be trading more money for security if he does.

That would give us 2/3 of our Big 3 under long term contract with the current cap rules, which would be fantastic if the cap goes up as is anticipated.

Actually, if we could get Thompson under contract for $13-$14 million or so ..... which sounds horrible, but 2 years from now that may seem like a bargain.

The cap is going to go up significantly once the new TV deal goes into account. That is why Lebron has his 1+ a player option deals, so he can set himself up for incremental increases as he signs new deals, and so that he sets himself up for the explosion of the cap, and max deals.

If we got Irving and Love under contract for current max deals, and Thompson at $13 - 14 million, that would hurt for a year, but it could well be OK in the long run.

I just found the article, and the cap goes up significantly in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017, and is expected to hit $108 million in 2017-2018.

NBA salary cap projected to hit $108 million in 2017 - SBNation.com
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/4/17/8447839/nba-salary-cap-projection-free-agency-2016-2017

The cap is expected to go to $89 million next year.

This year's cap was $63.2 million, and the tax threshold was $77 million.

So, for next year we have:

Lebron: Expected to be around $22 million
Love: Entering his 8th season will have a max of $18.9 million
Kyrie: $15,856,500
Andy: $9,638,554
Mozgov: $4,950,000
Miller: $2,854,940
Harris: $845,059
Total: .... roughly $75 Million

Then we have qualifying offers to Delly and Shumpert:

Delly: $1,147,276
Shumpert: $4,433,683
Total: ..... Roughly $5.6 Million

New Rolling Total: $80.6 million At this point we are $9 million under the projected cap.

We also have a qualifying offer to Thompson:

Thompson: $6,777,589 He is reported to have turned down a $13 million/year deal. I don't think that I would want the Cavaliers to go more than $14 million or so.

Let's go $14 for sake of discussion.

New Rolling Total: $94.6 million. ($5 million over the cap)

Haywood's deal is Non guaranteed at $10,000,000

JR Smith has a player option for next year that he is expected to opt out of:

Smith: $6,399,750

Then we would still have 10 players under contract. (not counting Smith) We would have Haywood's non-guaranteed deal to work with.

I cannot find the tax threshold for next season, but from what I see, this year the ca was set at about 22% over the salary cap. With an $89 million cap, the luxury threshold would be roughly $108 million. The Tax Apron, which is when teams lose certain contract provisions, is $4 million over the luxury threshold level. So, to maintain our full Mid Level exception, we would need to stay under something like $112 million.

So, we are back to the team salary, with Lebron, Love, and Thompson all re-signed for next year. Let's say that JR wants security, so he signs a 4 year deal, with annual salaries of $6 million, $7 million, $7 million, and a non guaranteed $10 million in the final year. That would put any problems from his contract into the time frame where the cap has exploded, and we can easily carry such a deal. For next year we would now be set with a total team salary of $100 million. This would be $8 million under the tax threshold with 11 players under contract.

We have that $10 million non guaranteed deal we could trade, and for a team that has a bad deal (for them) on the books, but has a player who would fit our team, we might be able to make a deal. However, to maintain our mid-level exception, we would have to fit 4 players onto the roster with that remaining $12 million ($8 million under the Luxury Tax level, and then $4 million under the tax apron) or so. We would be a tax paying team, but we would still have our Mid Level exception.

This is as I understand things anyway. I could well be wrong, but if I read the NBA rules correctly, then this should be right.

According to your article, the $89 million cap figure is what's projected for 2016-17 season, NOT this coming season. The $100+ million caps are for 2017-18 and beyond.

So we are still going to have some major cap/tax issues for this upcoming off-season. They did quote $67 million for THIS next coming season, which is still a 4 million jump from this past year. That should put the luxury cap at around $80 million and the Apron at $84 mill. With all the figures you just stated, even putting Thompson in at a qualifying offer contract would put us around $2 million over the Apron.

Will one of you guys w/cap knowledge tell me if players are permitted to restructure their contracts and play for less money like some players do in the NFL?

If that is the case, then it would make sense that some guys play for less money in Cleveland, because of the chance to win a championship.

No. In the NBA your contract is your contract. There is no renegotiating.

OK, well, that blows that all to pieces. lol

I believe that we would be a first time taxpayer, though. (under the terms of the CBA) That would lessen the impact of the luxury tax anyway.


I think.

Anyway, if we're in the Luxury Tax, then we should still have a partial mid-level exception that was $3.278million in 2014-15, and a bi-annual exception of $2.077 million (again 2014-15 numbers) if we did not use it last year. (and I don't feel up to looking it up right now)

According to Sheridan:

NBA Salary Cap 2014-15 Maximum Salaries and Exceptions
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/10/2014-15-nba-salary-cap-computations/

This is a list of things the Cavs can do this off-season:

Re-sign their own players
Make trades
Sign players using a salary exception

That's it. That's the list.

This is why they have to re-sign Love, Thompson, Smith, etc. Because there are no other options for bringing in real quality players.

Well, that sucks.

Thanks for the information, though. I appreciate it.

couldn't we drop swap 2 players that never see the court for a mo williams minimum vet contract?

On Wade:




http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13130181/dwyane-wade-miami-heat-address-contract-issues-next-week

If Mo signs a minimum, then technically yes. But dropping players won't give us any cap relief. It's not like the NFL.

From what I read, it's the sign-and-trade that triggers the hard cap. Now, if he signs for the vet minimum, it would be fine. I REALLY doubt he does that, unless he's looking for a 1-year ring chase and then a dive back into the lucrative 2016 Free Agent market. I really think he's just trying to up his leverage a bit with the Heat since they are balking at paying him a max deal.

j/c:

I love Andy, but I think we made a real mistake by giving him this contract. Andy over TT is not good for the Cavs.

Yep, that's it guys ... Although, I'm not even sure we can sign using any exceptions. It depends on where the Tax Apron is for the upcoming year, and with all the qualifying offers and such, we are right up against it. Even if guys opt out and re-sign later, those figures count against our cap until we formally renounce all re-signing rights.

Here's the thing about Andy's deal that I did not realize. This coming season his deal is guaranteed. The next 2 seasons are not guaranteed.

ShamSports.com: Cleveland Cavaliers salary information
http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/cavaliers.jsp

That means we have him next year, but can either cut him prior to the 2016-2017 season, or we can do a trade with his non-guaranteed deal

if he ends up missed a good chunk of games and playoff time due to injury next year, no way do we justify keeping him on the roster.

I'm just saying that while I had heard that his deal was guaranteed for all but the final year, it appears that was wrong, and only this past year and next are guaranteed.

Not sure how much of it is guaranteed though. According to this: http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CLE.html ... only $10 million of what he's signed up for is not guaranteed. So either the last year is not a guaranteed year, or it's split $5 mil each on the last two years.

Edit: Actually, if you mouseover his name on your site, it explains it. The second to last year, $1 million of the contract is NOT guaranteed and the last year is fully un-guaranteed. So he's still on the hook for around $9 mill a season the next two years.

Nice article on Shumpert, and all he went through in the Finals ....

The lengths Iman Shumpert went to stay on court for Cleveland Cavaliers and what he could expect in free agency | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/..._browns_article

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Iman Shumpert, a restricted free agent come July 1, gave the Cavaliers all he had as he essentially played the last four games of the postseason with one arm.

He was shot up with painkillers before Game 4 of the NBA Finals in order to continue playing through the excruciating pain of a bruised shoulder, a source revealed, and he may have been injected more than once during the Finals.

He will not need offseason surgery, just rest and treatment.

In Game 3 against the Golden State Warriors, Shumpert was blindsided by a Draymond Green screen in the first quarter, reinjuring the left shoulder he dislocated at the beginning of the year when he was a member of the New York Knicks.

The initial fear was that he separated his shoulder again, but a thorough evaluation disclosed a deep bruise.

Though he was still in agonizing discomfort, he returned to the game in the second quarter. An MRI exam the next morning confirmed the bruise. Had it been the regular season, I'm told he would have been sidelined 2-3 weeks.

He was also battling a sore left groin, but Shumpert wanted to play. This was the NBA Finals. The Cavs needed two more wins. The roster was depleted enough already, so he did what he had to do. He stuck it out and fought through the pain. His offensive game was limited due to his ailments, but he continued to play his patented tenacious style of defense.

His relentlessness, his toughness and willingness to lay it on the line characterized the Cavaliers' persona. General Manager David Griffin is extremely fond of Shumpert and plans to retain him. He loves his work ethic and competitive edge, but so do others.

The Cavaliers will have the right to match any offer sheets Shumpert receives on the open market. At 24 years of age and following a rejuvenated season, he will be in store for a lucrative pay raise from the $2.6 million he collected this past season.

Half a dozen teams have expressed interest in the quick-handed, defensive-oriented guard with upside, a source says. League executives believe he'll command north of $8 million per year.

LeBron James was asked during the Eastern Conference Finals why the Cavs' defense was clicking so well, and he praised his backcourt mate for the improvement.

"It starts with this guy," James said in reference to Shumpert. "He will be on the all-defensive team in this league really soon."

Shumpert's grit and determination is going to pay off. The Cavaliers just hope they'll remain his employer.

Love the man, but cut him and move on the second you have the opportunity. Giving him his contract was a mistake. That will be proof when he is injured again this upcoming season.

Shump is very important to us because of his defense.

The Cavs seem to have a lot of tough decisions this off-season.

Pretty good article here breaking down our cap situation:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/06/nba-rumors-cavaliers-dwyane-wade/

The bad news ... With all our cap holds for existing players, we're already way over the cap, tax line and tax apron. So, sign-and-trades are out the window.

The good news ... We can still actually use a mid-level exception, albeit at a lower rate. That's a 3.3 million dollar salary that we can use rather than a veteran minimum.

Very good read, thanks.

Doesn't sound like we'll be able to re-shape our roster much. Wade is probably a pipe dream (I don't know if I really want him, but looking at our banged up roster in the Finals, he could have made the difference - another guy that could go get 20 on a night).

As long as Kevin returns, Kyrie is healthy, TT is back, and most of the other guys come back, we'll still be the best team in the East, but I'm wondering what other player we can add to put us over the top against the teams in the West. Do we need another SG to create their own shots to take pressure off Lebron, do we need more 3-pt shooters, or another PG?

I don't know. I just want the season to start tomorrow (as well as the NHL too).

Stranger things have happened:

This is just a whatif

Sign Wade

Trade Kyrie (injury prone his entire career) and our first round pick and draft or trade for the best available One

I don't like the idea of trading an injury prone player for an older more injury prone player, and lose picks for the privilege.

Agreed.

As detailed above ... unless he wants $3 million a year, it's just not happening.


I don't get the "trade Kyrie" vibe going around now. Let's trade a potential top 10 player in the league, right now, when his trade value is at it's absolute lowest?? If we really want to unload him so badly, could we at least wait till he throws up a 50 point performance and teams might really give up something for him?

Also, I'm not sure a team is going to give up a point guard for a point guard, unless it's for a questionable point guard in return. If a team is happy with their PG play, why would they give him up for an injured Kyrie? If they aren't happy with him, why would we want him?

Our draft pick is also in the high 20's. It's pretty much worthless. NBA picks aren't like NFL picks. A late first rounder in an NBA draft is like a 3rd or 4th round pick in the NFL draft.

Don't understand the trade Kyrie stuff either.

Get him a damn personal trainer. Put him on a program to get rid of the baby fat and toughen up a little.

I kind of like a year where we completely forget the Draft is almost upon us ... But here's some prospects the Cavs can potentially get.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2015/6/19/8811047/2015-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-draft-prospect-profiles


My personal pick might be RHJ out of Arizona, but I doubt he lasts all the way to #24. Still it would be nice to have an athletic wing that can chase guys around on defense while Lebron rests.

We picked up Moz team option.

If Kyrie were on the market, he'd be the best available one.

Big surprise there.

j/c:



http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/23/...SmsM4jHiLiZE.99

I know DeRozan got hurt last year but I think he can be a great option if we lose JR... heck I think he'd surpass JR without much trouble.

The Cavs don't have enough to get him. He is an All-Star. Teams don't trade All-Stars for crappy first round picks.