DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Run the ball

still can't believe seattle didn't run the ball.

I'm sure that is the plan, but it's hard to run the ball when teams don't respect your passing game and stack the LOS against the run.

I'm so focused on the run game that I'll say the success or failure to run the ball will make/break our offense, maybe, keyword maybe, even the entire season in terms of wins/loss.

This.

The leading rushing team in the NFL last year was the Seattle Seahawks. They had the 3rd fewest passing yards in the league last year.

2nd leading rushing team last year was the Jets ..... yes, the Jets who started Geno Smith and Michael Vick at QB, and who were the worst passing team in the NFL last year.

The #4 best rushing team was the Niners. The were also the 4th worst passing team.

Next was Houston who was the 10th worse passing team.

Teams can run without being great passing teams. The passing game's value is that it allows for quick scores.

I think there's a special note to add about a teams effective running attack can only work when the opposing defense respects your passing game, that's usually true, unless you're really good at running the ball.

If you're good at running the ball, it doesn't matter if they respect your passing attack. You can run the ball because you win most of the battles at the line of scrimmage, period. The problem is when you're mediocre at running the ball and you're passing attack is also bad.

I think the counter argument to building a run-first team, even if you're good at it, it takes up a lot of time, it's boring, it's hard to commit to the run most of the time (when you're first down run came up a bit short), and you're battling the percentages.

I think it's the best thing for this team to focus on the run. Grind it out, slow the game down, beat them up, and then bring in a great D to keep them off the board. Make them play our game, not theirs.

If we're going to be running a similar scheme to what we did last year on offense (no huddle, zone running, play-action heavy) I expect the receivers and McCown to have some level of success just as Hoyer did last year with the weak cast of receivers we had. I'm not so much worried about Hartline, Bowe, Hawkins and Gabriel as I am the tightend position. I think our WR's will be better than people think, maybe not elite, but productive. I'm in 100% agreement though, for our offense to have ANY success at all, it's going to be running the football...

I love our RB's and outside of Mitchell Schwartz I love our offensive line. So I'm excited to a degree to see how well they all work together this year.

One of my favorite reactions to Spygate was Mark Schlereth.

He basically said, that it didn't matter if the defense knew what play you were running..

If you executed it properly, it would still work..

Does it give the defense an advantage, knowing we are mostly going to be a running team? Of course..

But we have one of, if not the best, offensive lines in the league.. Let them do their jobs..

And if teams really want to stack the box. You run slants, and throw in a play action..

Our WRs are good.. Yes.. I said good.. They will be able to find openings..

And if the defense is really that focused on the run.. The WRs will be able to make plays..

I must say I'm a little surprised by the thread. The coaches all the way down to the fan base has stated we will be a run first team. That our O will be predicated on the run.

Seems like something everyone knew and recognized anyway.

You love to use stats, but I think you often use them to mislead people.

Seattle was capable of throwing the ball. People can dis Wilson all they want, but he can complete passes when asked to do so, and that threat helps the running game.

The other teams?

The Jets stunk. What's your point.

SF? They had viable receivers and a lot better qb than we have. They had two very good RBs.

Houston had Andre Johnson.

Other than Seattle, how many of those teams made the playoffs? And do we have anything close to Russel Wison?

Oh, and here is a stat. We were ranked 17th in rushing the ball. We had Shanny, who always has a good running game.

Not sure how you guys are concluding that we are going to have a great running game?

And our OL is much better at pass blocking than run blocking.

I have seen this movie so many times. I don't see it playing out any different this year. In fact, I think this is one of the least talented offenses we have had........and that is saying something.

And the best defense. If their defense was a sieve, they'd have to be able to throw the ball to make it anywhere in the postseason. Most of the teams with anemic passing numbers resemble the Jets. Unless you've got a great defense, like the 49ers or Seahawks. Plenty of teams in the NFL are equipped to stack the box and stonewall Marshawn Lynch. It's just hard to commit to that with Russell Wilson under center.

Oh, and here is another stat:

Only two teams in the entire NFL had a worse yds per carry average than we did.

So yeah, we should be easily be able to make the playoffs by running the ball over and over when the other team knows its coming because they have zero respect for our passing game.

Playoffs............here we come!

cool what seed you think we're going to get?

Same seed we've always gotten for our money - magic beanstalk.

Yeah, I do like stats .... because you are what your production says you are.

Look you said this:



I showed where this may not be 100% true. The Jets ran the ball, seemingly at will. They averaged 4.5 yards/rush, and had 112 rushing 1st downs. (3rd in the NFL)

San Francisco has trouble passing the ball last year, but they ran the ball effectively.

We started out running the ball very well last year, until Mack was hurt. I think that Shanahan's biggest failure last year was nor adjusting to the loss of Alex mack in the run game.

If we can just be capable in the pass game, then we should be able to run the ball. Before Mack got hurt last year, we ran very well. In the 1st 5 games last year, we ran for 183 yards against Pittsburgh, 122 against the Saints, 91 against the Ravens, 175 against Tennessee, and 158 against the Steelers. We opened up strong on the ground, until Mack got hurt.

People talk about the comeback in the opening game, and it was fantastic, but we passes for 206 yards in that game. We has 202 passing yards against the Saints. 284 against the Ravens, 285 against the Titans, and 210 against the Steelers.

We wanted to run the ball, and we did. We didn't kill teams with the pass, we were just competent. I think that a team with a great OL and very good RB can run the ball in this league. We will be that kind of team. We will be built in the mold of the Seahawks, Niners, Jets and Texans. Play great defense, and run the ball. We made upgrades to do just these things. There is no reason to think that we won't be able to do so.

We are also going to run an offense that will use players in the passing game as receivers from all positions. We will spread teams out wide as well as deep.

We also have a QB who was able to throw the deep ball better than Hoyer did last year. As much as I liked Hoyer early on, it was beyond sad when we would have receivers running so wide open that about half the guys on the board could hit them with a pass, and Hoyer would throw some duck.

Oh, and you don't have to tell me about Wilson. I was probably one of his earliest champions on this board.



You didn't ask about making the playoffs, you said that teams that don't have a respectable passing game can't run the ball. I showed that this was not accurate. A team can run the ball even when they can't pass it very well, if they are constructed correctly. They might not win, because big plays generally happen in the passing game. but a defensive team that can run the ball can succeed in the NFL, and we have seen it with teams that have moves away from wide open passing games, to controlled passing games, combined with a great run game and a great defense ..... which is our plan in Cleveland.

Game situations call for different kinds of attacks. A team is only as strong as the weakest length in its chain.
It may be better of a plan to remember to not give up on the run too early; or to " establish " the run game.

Teams have been trying to " establish" the run in games for a long time. Even divisional foes have published after wins that they went in trying to "establish the run.

Even though the Dawgtalkers are enamored with the O-line of the Browns, it doesn't mean the Browns O-line is an unstoppable force, or that they will always perform the same. Neither does it mean that West and Crowe will have the same success getting into the end zone they had last year.

Plus, most teams best run, to run out the clock with a lead. You have to have a freaking lead to do that, and the best way to get a lead in the first place is to score Tds and

Like it or not, the truth of the NFL is the most powerful way, year in and year out to get touchdowns, is with a great quarterback great receiver combo hooking up for a catch in or into the end zone.
I mean it's more reliable than the matriculating run game needing several snaps in a row to mosey down the field for a score
I mean its' more reliable than a star defensive player, best in the league, creating fumbles or interceptions that end up pick 6's or other defensive scores.
I mean it's more reliable than a star return man, best in the league returning kickoffs or punts into the end-zone.

Bottom line, if you fall behind by 3 td's, even early in the first half, you're going to fall into the trap of calling passing plays to try to get back into the game.

Saying you are just going to run the ball, is like telling a team late in an NBA or College basketball game to just not get fouled by the other team, because if you let the other team foul you, then you'll have to make foul shots, and the clock will stop, giving them a chance to shrink the lead while using less of the remaining game clock.

It's like saying I'm going to play monopoly and not land on any of the other players properties that have hotels on them.

Or what are you gonna do when your run game doesn't work, or when your o-line gets it's tail kicked, or when your backs are fumbling,
You've got to be able to pass the ball, you've got to be able to make foul shots, you've got to be able to drive the lane, hit 3's, you've got to be able to do it all!
It's not a one dimensional game.

So they're best reminded not to give up on the run, not to give up on the run, and to continue to run even if it's appearing not to be effective, but you can't give up on the others too.

Vers one thing that i want to say on this is that we kept our OL and RB coaches that for the browns is major continuity lol. Flip is keeping what you love and adding what I love. it may work, it may not but I love what he is doing.

He watched those stretched runs and thought damn, this stuff works but lets add more inside power runs. `I think this is really gonna help Crow and our Ol.

He is also adding the Coryell vertical passing attack with deep balls setting up the run after catches play behind it.

His system may be great and in the same breath may be a total disaster but I reallly like what he is doing and keeping some great coaches really shows me something.

The Seahawks and 49ers had major contributions from their QBs in the run game (Wilson had 849 rushing yards, Kaepernick 639). That skews the ranking quite a bit. I am guessing that McCown won't be rushing for many yards.

The Texans ran for a lot of yards, but weren't all that successful (3.9 yards per carry).

The Jets I don't really understand. They somehow ran the ball successfully and had a good defense. But they also finished 4-12.

I would guess we finish in the top ten in rushing attempts and yards, but are not all that successful on a per carry basis.

This is why I believe Manziel started last year. A lot of Shanahan's offense gave options for the QB to run. Naked bootlegs.. QB keepers.. Options plays. It was a big part of his offense in Washington, and you could see the QB run options in Hoyer's bootleg passing. Problem was.. Hoyer had come just come off a season ending injury and did not take the run options.

Utilizing the run options was something Manziel was more than capable of doing. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, when Manziel got into the game this was not taken advantage of.

Oh no. . .

Given time for this offense to gel, I fully expect it to be at least competent. The uncertainties are as eo noted...

What I expect from this O.

It is gonna be in design much closer to the Martz offense with a focus on getting guys vertical to make the bigger run after catch plays behind them. We have talent in the backfield and flip likes to run the ball but using these 2 back sets with the zone stretch run scheme is going to create more options.

2 back set with a design stretch to the right with Crow gives you that option for the run, playaction fake and with the other back slipping out to the left or into a pattern really can create a mismatch where you may have a DB having to make the solo tackle on the RB or the LB forced to shadow him in coverage and that in itself takes away one chaser from the run.

I am very fascinated by some of the stuff we are installing. We are trying to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically as well. This in theory should create some big runs up the middle and give guys like Hartline and Hawk big run after catch opportunites in the middle.

Thing is, you need a great offensive line to run this type of scheme and you need some athletes to pull it off. We have the line and we will see soon enough what type of athletes we have at these skill positions.

I think you guys are dreaming about the offense.

Rish laid a Mike Tyson quote on us a couple of weeks ago, and I think it is relevant here in regards to the Brown's offense:

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

What the hell vers I am talking about what we are trying to do on offense and this is your reply. You talk about clicks and gangs well I found yours.

Early speculation, maybe... but dreaming? No. We'll have our entire oline back, perhaps even stronger if ErVing can steal a spot, the same zone scheme and a coach/oc who has not made it a secret we will run the ball.

I don't think we're dreaming given the success of pre-Mack we had last year running and pretty much little to no changes in the group that was successful doing it last year coming into training camp fully healthy this year.

Jmo

I agree with vers...I think you guys are dreaming about the offense. Especially the Oline. Still don't know how Mack will rebound and how our rookies will be up to task in the early going this season. Just because we have Thomas 100% we've proven we can't just plug and play the rest of the oline.

There's only one rookie, and if he wins a starting job, we will be even better. If not, grecco and Schwartz will continue where they left off last year.

There won't be much "plug and play" and if there are new faces, it'll be because they beat out the competition.

I don't see where all this "concern" is coming from.

The problem with running the ball will be whether or not McCown can make teams pay for not respecting the pass. As the season wore down last year, teams run blitzed the crap out of us just daring Hoyer to beat us. The more he proved he couldn't, the more they sold out for the run. This was the biggest reason why the running game came to a halt, not the loss of Mack. There was zero respect for the passing game. And even if we were to get a little lucky, like Hoyer's long pass to Cameron, we couldn't do that enough within a game for it to matter.

The passing game has to be able to keep the defense honest. Or else it doesn't matter how great your OLine is. Teams will just sell out on the run. And if you can't make them pay for that, you will lose every single time.

My concern is the oline. I really don't like where they left off last year at all. Dream all you want it's cool, but I'm thinking deja vu.

Honest question: Are we really sure about that? I know there was early talk of keeping the ZBS, but afterwards, I haven't heard squat about it.

Oh, and I am sorry..........but I am very skeptical about Flip. Has he ever been an OC in the NFL yet? How many times has he interviewed for that position? Was he ever an OC, even at the college ranks?

He might turn out to be some hidden jewel, but the odds are we are less competent at OC than we were the past two years w/Norv and Shanny.

We are keeping the same zone run schemes but adding more inside runs and also uses a lot more 2 back sets. I have been told it looks like Martz passing attack and shannahans rush attack but most everything is off the Playaction.

Imo, I think Josh will be more accurate on virtually all the throws (especially the deep ball which Hoyer had missed on many of those that should've been six pts), given the same situation Hoyer had the early part of last season (total biting on play action, nice and secure pockets and etc) and in addition, Josh will provide a small increase in scrambling abilities.

We'll see how it all unfolds.

Pettine and Flip both have stated the zbs will be implemented and identical to last year. Imo, they'd be incredibly stupid not to factoring the at-will running attack we had early part last year and use the intelligence and athleticism of our olinemen.

Oh excuse me for having some concern about the OL and discussing it in a "Run the ball" thread. LOL