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Long way before I could even begin to take a stab at several position battles ..

Hartline this year = Burleson last year

I will not be shocked if he is cut. It seems like there are more promising guys on the roster. Gabriel and Bowe outside, Hawkins in the slot. That is fine with me.

Couldn't agree more. Hartline has practiced well the last few days, but it wouldn't shock me

I don't see that all. I see Hartline as a lock to make this roster and penciled in as our #2 WR next to Bowe.

Hartline is 28 and one of the first FA signings we could do. Burleson was on his last leg and 32 or 33 when he signed and it was roughly a month into the FA period.

I think a inquiry like this-- promising young talent vs established vets-- could be something addressed next year. Still, young and promising doesn't mean let go of established veterans after a few weeks of training camp, IMO. Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, I think, are more likely to get walking papers next year instead of this year and we'll let players like Gabriel grow and ask to prove more on the field. I like Gabriel, but it's been one year.

I expect Bowe, Hartline, and Hawkins to be on the field as #1, #2, slot WR, respectively. Gabriel will certainly get his time on the field with a heavy rotation, but I think the above three is what we'll see week 1, if everyone is healthy.

I agree with this completely. I don't see much similarity between Hartline and Burleson other than both were FA. And lets face it - Pryor, Benjamin and Mayle are all about 'potential' - I really like what I see and read about Pryor - but he's only done it in training camp so far. Benji has sort of flashed as a WR - but also shown to be shy of contact, and is a big ? (Don't want him as a returner in any way shape or form) and Mayle is a rookie ... Gabriel I think has shown enough to be a legit starter but that wouldn't be a reason to cut Hartline.

Personally, I don't think they keep 4 TEs on the roster and the final spot will come down between Dray/Barnidge. I think they really liked the Bibbs kid and will give Housler a shot. Not that he'll do this often, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Pryor line up as a TE at times. I wonder if they'll try that in the preseason. Overall, terribly lacking in terms of talent at this position group. Maybe Bibbs can surprise??



I see us keeping a lot of DL simply because of the injuries last year and I think we'll use 4 man fronts at times. I think Taylor and Winn both make this team, if healthy, and the odd man out would be Kitchen.



I'm not alluding to you believing you like this guy or anything but since I saw his name in the list, this is a better place as any to say this....To me, Poyer is bad. I don't have an answer to who should be the direct back up to Gipson but I don't think it should be him. I don't know much on Campbell but think we're rather short on depth at the safety position.

And regarding Bademosi, I think he stays because of special teams. the competition may actually be between him and Moore, but with all the WR bodies we have in camp, that may put him in a tough spot.

I also agree that we could keep two QB and use Pryor as 'third' on the depth chart.

Burelson was also injured coming to the Browns, by the time he got healthy others had shown they could do the job... namely Gabriel and Benjamin.

Good point. I completely forgot about that.

If there is a FA WR cut, it will be Bowe... Just a guess..

Nah, I don't think so....too much dead money if you cut him.

I'm not sure if Lenz will end up like this as there is much more time to go in the preseason, but each year there is a camp darling that does well with 2nd/3rd teams that fans cling to but never really ends up achieving much.

Armond Brown, David Sims just to name a few in recent years. For Lenz's sake, I hope he doesn't end up on this list.

If there is anything in Lenz's corner, although a very small sample size, is the FO has been able to identify UDFA worth looking at and keeping on the roster. But after year one with the new FO and coaching staff it may be easier to make that team then now with two drafts, two FA periods, etc. with depth a little bit deeper.

I just realized that I made a mistake on that post of minre. That's to on the DBs, which is what I intended, and what I accounted for, but not what I wrote.

I think that 4 TE is not out of the question if we are going to runt he ball a lot. Barnidge was injured a lor last year, and Bibbs was last year in college. Housler is not an inline blocker. I think 4 is realistic.

The team seems to really like Poyer, and he was the star early on when Gipson was holding out. He is a good special teams player as well.
Bademosi has been one of my favorite players since we signed him, and I hope that his special teams prowess is good enough to keep him on the team. I have to wonder though, because he is notn progressing as a DB.

FWIW, Barnidge was the first team TE at the scrimmage. He's on the squad. Third TE I think will come down to Dray v. Housler.

Kitchen didn't come out until the third team, and that was with Taylor not participating. I think he's a longshot to make it unless Taylor is just too broken at this point.

And don't forget, Hartline is known as a dependable WR. You can't underestimate the value of a guy like that, especially in a new O-scheme.

I'm just not sure if Hartline is one of the best five wide receivers on the team. What if Lenz is for real? Wouldn't you rather have him instead of Hartline? I could totally see Bowe, Hawkins, Gabriel, Mayle, Lenz, and Pryor as our six guys we keep.

How many smurf sized receivers can you keep in a group of 6, or maybe 7?

Hawkins, Gabriel, and Benjamin appear to be pseudo locks for the team. These are 3 very short receivers, all of whom cn do different things.

Lenz is listed as 6', but he looked an inch or 2 shorter than Manziel when the 2 celebrated their TD. Manziel is listed at 6', and is a little under that .... so I would guess that Lenz is 5'10" to 5'11". From a senior year college scouting report, he was listed as 5'11", and those are often exaggerated slightly. CBS also listed him as 5'11".

Pettine has wanted to add size to the WR corps, thus we signed guys like Bowe and Hartline. We also added Mayle in the draft, as a bigger bodied receiver, and converted Pryor to get more size at WR.

I just have trouble seeing Lenz making the team, being that he is another small WR ....already having 3 such receivers, and wanting size at the position to go with the guys we already have. Now if we drop Benjamin, then maybe he has a chance.

JMHO

I haven't seen Mayle or Pryor on the field yet , no clue as to what they can do .. Lenz is interesting at this point in Camp ..

Lenz hasn't went up against the #1's, least that I know of. I know we saw him a lot during the scrimmage. Who knows how that WR group is all going to shake out!

If Lenz makes it I think Benji is out.

He's been a below average player since he's been here with some flashes here and there.

I just can't see Hartline getting cut. At all.

well.... how many did we keep last year that size?

And what was the point of emphasis at the position this year?

Mayle has played some, but he also just got the cast off of his thumb recently. I am sure that are working him in slowly.

I thought that Manziel connected with him on a 30 yard play in the scrimmage. (On the drive that Bibbs scored the TD, IIRC)

First, let me say that if we are at the point where a dependable guy like Hartline is on the bubble, we're in a pretty damn good position for once

Ytown made some really good points about what kind of WR's we were targeting this year. My prediction is that they are planning to have a good mix of size/speed in our WR group when its all said and done. I think Lenz is REALLY going to have to stud out to take the spot of a dependable size guy like Hartline.

I think his best bet to make the final roster is to show his value as a smurf and look to knock off one of them, I think Benji being his best bet.

I understand--and respect--your opinion, but I disagree w/you.

I think this group as a whole is way below average and amongst the worst in the league. When you can't even identify which guys should make the roster, you have some issues.

That is a bit of a broad statement, but you might want to take it in this context---------it's not like our DL where we have a bunch of guys who have established that they can play or have a good pedigree. Nah, the WR group consists of a bunch of guys who haven't done much or haven't done a damn thing.

I think the guy who should go is Mayle. He had a history of dropping passes BEFORE he hurt himself. I watched him in the scrimmage. His body language reeks. He looks like another of those entitled guys who have only relied on their physical attributes throughout their entire life. I would much rather keep a guy like Lenz than an underachiever like Mayle. The only problem is that Farmer drafted him, which means his roster spot is probably a given.

j/c
The very idea that Hartline is on the bubble is pure insanity. He plays and produces against the #1's. He's most likely the most dependable and valuable WR on this team. It amazes me how easily distracted and quickly people overrate some second or third string scrub.

SQUIRREL!

I just said I wouldn't be surprised if he was cut. I don't think he will be.

Let's not kid ourselves, we are still building/re-building. If there is a young promising player, he should be kept over Hartline. We can't afford to lose a player like Gabriel, Williams, etc. because we kept Hartline.

Isn't Bowe older than Hartline?

Yes. He is also getting paid a lot more (Bowe got $9M guaranteed, Hartline $3M).

My guess is that they both make the roster. I just don't think Hartline should make it because he is a "savvy veteran," especially if there is a more promising player that is on the bubble.

Many teams will be cutting players just like Brian Hartline.

I just believe you are seriously undervaluing the talent Hartline brings to the table.

No. I am not. I think he will make the team.

Pit, I understand this statement. But, if Gabriel and Benjamin shine in preseason, does Heartline stay? Size and speed where does Heartline fit? You know as well as anyone youth with almost equal talent trumps veterans.

I'm not comparing Heartline with the others. I'm thinking final roster and how many receivers are kept vs. other positions. Secondary receivers who play special teams may get more weight. I by no means measure Heartlines abilities against other receivers.

I gotta admit that SQUIRREL line was a classic. Had me cracking up and thinking of Christmas Vacation. Best post you've made in months.

My point was : Lets get a couple of pre season games under our belt before we start to widdle down some of the positions .. I like the idea of making hard choices at cut time !

Mark my words, we will have to cut some quality, d-line men this year. I'm sure our d line is being monitored closely by many teams...

Mark my words, we will have to cut some quality, d-line men this year. I'm sure our d line is being monitored closely by many teams...

Or trade one or two for something else. That's not beyond possible!

I think even the PS will be tough decisions. Really want to see more of Lenz; the scrimmage was interesting to see. We may a wideouts, QB, DL practice squad for a year.