DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Farmer

I'm neither a Farmer lover or hater. But I'd assume that a man of GM material would be able to spot a bad attitude in a potential hire such as Gilbert and West.

You have to ask the right questions to get a man to reveal his personality. I don't think he knew/knows how to do that.

Manzel is the same thing only different. He didn't have a bad attitude but he certainly was a party animal. As much history as there was on Manzel in that regard a GM should see that in advance, spotting the potential problems.

That makes sense. It is also reasonable to assume that Farmer and Co had limited time to do their vetting and their assistants were carryovers from the previous regime who may have left or were on a different page. Vetting and interviewing every candidate is difficult enough without the turnover and dysfunction. HOWEVER and at the same time, I'm guessing that West always came off like a donkey and that it was plain to see. Who knows?

For the 2015 draft, it appears we didn't draft any knuckleheads. The difference? A full year under his / new direction? I doubt he suddenly found out how to "read" guys. I suspect that we simply didn't have enough time to do so in year 1. I think AND hope that to be the case.

He's found some excellent players outside of round 1 and UDFA types and brought in some high-character, high-value vet FAs while also botching too many high valued draft picks.

If Manziel and Gilbert provide something of substance, we won't have much to complain about outside of texts (which is ridiculous) and a malcontent, 3rd Rd head case let go for a doughnut. And before someone has a stroke over that, remember that nearly 2/3 of the league wish they had a better option at QB.

As Browns fans we clamor for some semblance of continuity. At this point, we have a group of guys who do not appear to be egomaniacs or Romeo-esque-in-over-their-heads. I think there has been ample evidence to give these guys more time.

Perhaps I could have eased up on the language. What you perceive as personal attacks I would say to your face even if you were my dad, my best friend, or anyone else. They are not meant to insult you personally, but to emphasize how ridiculous you are being. I wouldn't insult my dad personally...I love the guy...but I would tell him he's being asinine if he was being asinine.

You started a thread with the following sentence..."how Farmer continues to have a job is beyond me". He's been in the job all of a year. He's done some good and some bad just like every single other GM has in the league.

One of the things I despise is when people can't be honest with themselves and others. Why can't you just admit you had a meltdown after the West trade and your thread is your way of venting? What's wrong with being honest with yourself and others? Don't hide behind some fake notion that you truly just want to talk football. There's no integrity or respect in that.

I'm not insulting you. It's my assessment of the situation after having read you for a long time now. You are not a Farmer fan. Everything he does that you can put in his cons column drives you deeper and deeper into this dislike for him. Why pretend it's anything other than that?

And for the record, I don't know any single Browns fan on this board or otherwise that's entirely happy with the job that Farmer has done ...or that every move he makes is great ...or that everything is hunky dory in Brownsville. That argument seems to be reserved for people who get upset when others won't join the pitchfork crew. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Did we seriously just use our IR - designated to return tab on our 5th or 6th cornerback?!

That is majorly stupid. Wow.

Isn't Tevin Coleman starting for them?

We did indeed. It is indeed.

Hey Vers. I don't really let it bother me that guys like Rish call me "Whacked out". When I consider the source, I actually find it to be a compliment.

Not to interrupt the whinny, pissing & moaning bitchfest the West trade has caused, but we gave a 4th & 6th to get the 3rd, and got a 7th in the trade. So basically we gave up a 4th round pick on an experiment and swapped a 6th for a 7th to get rid of the head case. So we wasted one pick, not three, if you want to call taking a 4th round flyer on a potential game changer "a waste". But don't let the facts interfere with your rants.

Yes,

Coleman had a hammy issue for most of the preseason.

So Freeman is the incumbent starter b/c Coleman is a rookie and has been out most of the preseason.

Is this like a reverse psychology thing?

Not at all. I really don't have thin skin and could care less what people think so it's not as if you're an exception. I'm not a homer nor am I always negative.

So usually when I get the type of reaction I did from you when you said that I was "Whacked out" the other day, it's usually because a poster is either totally positive expecting no accountability from our FO or coaching staff, or a poster is totally negative and doesn't like to hear anything positive from me.

Either way it's taken with a grain of salt and you don't hear a lot of complaining from me about it.

Most of Farmers draft decisions have plain out sucked. The entire textgate thing was a fiasco. I don't really care for what I've seen from him. Most all of the things Vers pointed out about Farmer are correct.

But Farmer was a rookie GM, he's not afraid to move on from his mistakes and we can hope he evolves and learns from his mistakes. That's all we have to hang our hats on.

Now whether you feel that's whacked out or not doesn't concern me. Never did and never will. Maybe you think I should care?

It was a rhetorical question. Or sarcasm at the least. The best sarcasm is that which doesn't use purple but not if people don't get it. Guess I failed there. LOL.

Do I think you should care? It doesn't really matter to me honestly. When I said you were whacked out I was having some fun. Wasn't looking for a response or acknowledgment that you cared or didn't care. It doesn't matter to me either way. You and I are similar like that I guess.

Versatile, that was said with tongue in cheek. Heck, I'm at the top of the mentally ill list anyway. I am not desiring to make fun of them/me or you. You have passion and I like that.

I have made my disdain for Farmer pretty plain in hundreds of other threads. I have no desire to keep posting those same thoughts over and over. The proof is in the pudding. Didn't you want Bridgewater? It looks like you were spot on. Even our GM couldn't get that right. He has already passed on 2 legitimate WR's in the draft. He refuses to help the O. I am still very skeptical about this D. Even if they are elite, they are destined to be on the field 75% of all games.

I really didn't wish to comment any further on this subject so hence the Suckssss comment.

That has to be your longest post ever. Since when did you start becoming long-winded?

737 yards and 5 TDs, sending a message to those unwilling to word hard, and clearing out a problem. What's the point of whining about and over exaggerating something you can do nothing about?

Film Room: Teddy Bridgewater


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2015/film-room-teddy-bridgewater

like your points vers.
I think Shelton will be extremely good .
Manziel and gilbert you couldn't trade both of them for mingo that said manziel has shown extreme growth as a qb and now he is as good as his classmate coworkers so no way am I conceding that this subject is closed.

Absolutely. And it's not looking good. Three headcases in one draft indicates to me Farmer either didn't do his homework or he targeted headcases. Either way it's bad. Four first round picks these last two drafts and ONE of them is starting on Sunday. Johnny Fragile has a bad elbow and Dilbert is bucking for a section 8. Reminds me of how the Bungles used to draft.

I was the first Farmer pimp on these boards. Heck I bet I was the first Browns fan to be a Farmer pimp. I was pimping Farmer when others were saying Ray who? Farmer WHO? I was very upset when the Browns almost lost him to the Dolphins.

Ray was well respected by those people he had worked with in the past. He was well respected and spoken highly of by others in the NFL who know much more than us average Joe's He had the backing of others he worked under, and those he worked above. He was pimped by people he played with in the NFL. I am still a Farmer pimp. Has he been perfect..... hell no. Has he made mistakes.... Hell yes.Right now his first draft looks like a disaster (But the jury is still out on that) But what we do know is that this team has more talent now than it did when he took over as GM. We are in great shape cap wise. For the first time in a long, long time our front office has a plan and they are sticking to it and working as a team pulling in the same direction. Ray still deserves a few more years to see what he can do and to provide a body of work that can be fairly judged one way or the other. I swear people these days would bash Jesus for turning water in wine in 30 seconds because they wanted it done in 10 seconds.

I will say this .....

Farmer's 1st draft looks like a wreck right now ..... but if Manziel becomes a solid starting QB, that whole perception turns around 180 degrees.

If his 1st draft were to wind up producing a starting QB, LG, and LB ..... that would be a great 1st draft.

It would move up to A+ if we get both Manziel and Gilbert playing to their draft statuses.

If either one of those two pan out it makes the draft look much better. (I am not holding my breath however) We have Joel, Christian, and Pierre right now. However lets not forget we added Crow, Taylor, and K'waun as undrafted free agents.

And added Dansby, Whitner, Hawk & Drey in FA. Again, I believe Gilbert was a must have from Pettine, and that Manziel was a Haslam pick, and I will never be convinced otherwise. West was the train wreck pick. I'm sure he sold them a bill of good during the interview process, being very convincing in his protestations that he had turned his life and attitude around. In any case, big miss, but decent off-season overall. With Bitonio, Kirksey & Desir, and Crow & Gilbert, K'waun in FA, I have to give him a B+

If Gilbert and Manziel do pan out, that doesn't change my off-season grade for Farmer, since I don't believe they were his picks.

JMHO

I'm having a hard time believing that a personality as strong as Farmer would step back and give way to a rookie Head Coach to make the first pick in his (Farmer's) first draft as GM. Doesn't mean they didn't reach a consensus on Gilbert, but I don't believe for a minute that he would abdicate on the initial pick of his first-ever draft as GM.

Likewise as far as the Manziel pick goes; if he wasn't onboard with the pick, it was his J-O-B to speak up and say something like "Hey Jimmy, there's two or 3 better QBs on the board right now. If its Manziel you want, I'll bet you a $100 he'll be there for our 2nd round pick.". Would it be awkward or even uncomfortable to disagree with the boss? Sure it would, but it needed to be said. It was Farmer's responsibility to behave like the player personnel specialist that Haslam was paying him to be. I don't believe he gets any deniability for either Gilbert or Manziel, because it was either poor judgement if he was onboard with taking them, or it was dereliction of duty for failing to make a case against the picks, despite his better judgement.

As for the Gilbert pick, I'm sure Pettine wanted him for his defense and when you added in Buffalo's first, I'm sure Farmer had no problem signing off on it.

For Manziel, Carr, Teddy, my guess is they were all ranked pretty closely. Haslam possibly wanted Manziel and Farmer again signed off.

I'm not asking anyone to believe it, I'm just saying that this is what I believe. If Pettine felt strongly enough, I can see Farmer giving him the pick over someone else he would rather have had.

Re: Haslam, no one knows how the conversation went except them, and they're not talking. But if Haslam was adamant, there's no way Farmer was going to override him. The hype and the potential jersey & ticket sales would have been very appealing to a fledgling owner trying to revive a franchise. We all know Farmer favored Carr, and we're sure he would have taken him or Bridgwater over Manziel. This was Haslam's pick all the way and Farmer deferred, being a rookie GM, and then was a good soldier and fell on his sword, taking credit for the pick afterward.

On the upside, neither Haslam nor Pettine will interfere moving forward, and Farmer can get on with the business at hand. (When he gets done serving his suspension for his dumb ass move. )

JMHO

So far, the Gilbert pick has been a failure.

But, right after we drafted him Mike Mayock (fwiw) raved about the selection. It just hasn't panned out yet, maybe never will.

Well, we're not really sure because we haven't seen him play. The negative is his attitude. The positive is his physical skills. The wildcard is that it can take CBs 3-4 years to develop into viable starters. Very few in the fan base and no one in the media has the patience to see this through. Fortunately, they're not the one's in charge. Labeling him as a bust at this point is moronic on some level, and knee jerk at the minimum. The best thing for everyone to do at this point is to STFU and let it play out. Ditto Manziel. Ditto Erving.

JMHO

tab, the point was that we only get to use that designation once per year. Gaines is a guy who was likely to be inactive most of that time anyways. If we have an issue where we have a starter or a significant rotation guy go down with an injury for an extended period we don't have the flexibility of short term IR. That's why it's stupid. Not because it's a hamstring and not because of the medical situation.

Agreed. This was a real head scratcher. We must value him VERY highly and must have been extremely concerned that someone would have snatched him.

They can place it at any time, the player must miss 8 weeks of games and miss practice for 6 weeks. If you're likely to be a playoff team, for example, but one of your good players gets hurt in week 10, you can place the designation on the player and they will miss week 11-week 17 and the wildcard round, but could return for the divisional round.

My guess is that they do value him highly.

Personally, I wouldn't have cut him either... I would have just made him inactive.

But on the other hand, we do have IEO coming back next year to play as an inside corner and K'Wuan has really cemented himself as our top inside corner. This may be Gaines' only season on the squad and we just nixed half of it. I don't really understand what they are doing with this guy.

My guess is that this is Gilbert's last hurrah and if the light does not come on... even dimly... then he will be gone.