DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Farmer

Why, thank you. I thought it was clever. Adding in the convenience factor of an "E" on the chest (what I can only imagine is for eotab), it adds a bit more personal flair.

Man, I hate dumb sayings like that one. The sky fell back in the 90s when Art took the Browns to Baltimore. We have played in exactly one playoff game since that time. Is that sunny skies in your world?

Here is what I remember of Dion Lewis. Banner knew him from his Philly days. He sent a nobody LBer to acquire him. Lewis was looking awesome in preseason and many fans loved him. He was going to have a big role on the team. He got hurt. I think it was his knee. That might have a little bit to do w/his lack of carries in one of the years you mentioned.

The next year, the idiot Farmer cuts him. He ends up in New England, where they love him.

Imagine..........

Then, we have Charles Johnson. Another guy acquired by Banner/Lombardi. GB didn't want to lose him. He was said to have great physical gifts. Farmer doesn't keep him on the 53 and he goes to Minnesota, where he actually became their number one WR by the end of the year.

Farmer is a dunce!

+1, all the amateur general managers point at the failures, but forget the good picks....time will tell about this years draft, starting Sunday....JMHO, love the way Farmer and Pet are building the team...hard nosed workers who must produce...once drafted, EARN your playing time...ps, love Turbin pickup, they were smart getting that guy.....GO Browns!!!!

Yeah, Gilbert, JM, West are all hard working guys. LMAO

How many years has Turbin been a starter? How many thousand yard seasons does he have? Proven? Really? And exactly when will he be ready to play?

Actually, you are mistaken.

We had Lewis in 2013. When we cut him, he sat at home for the whole year.

In 2014, he got a shot with the Colts. Yes, the RB desperate Colts. They kept him through September 14th, and cut him. No one else gave him a shot last year, even with some teams in dire need of RBs.

Coming into this season, Lewis had 36 carries and 3 receptions in 4 seasons. This was hardly a resume that creates a huge level of excitement.

Yes, he looked really good in one preseason.

Let's look at that preseason:

In the 1st game, against the Rams, he had 5 carries for 12 yards, and 3 catches for 22 yards. That was the game where Weeden went 10-13 for 112 yards and a TD ... and people made excuses why it did not matter.

In the 2nd game, against the Lions, Lewis had 5 carries for 33 yards, and 4 catches for 15 yards. Another solid game. Weeden, by the way, went 8/12 for 117 yards and 2 TD in this game.

In the 3rd and 4th games ...... nothing. So, he finished the preseason with 10 carries for 45 yards, and 7 catches for 37 yards. It was a decent preseason showing, but hardly one that made people shout "Hall of Fame!".

In 2014, we saw farmer make a ton of moves to try and shore up the RB position. He signed Tate, and drafted West, He then also added Crowell as an UDFA. (a move that, IIRC, you and I both liked) Lewis was in contention for the #3 RB spot (and in fact, was the favorite for that spot)..... but Crowell knocked him off the roster with his big game.

So, we had Ben Tate, who looked really good in the preseason, West, who also looked good in the preseason, and then we had Crowell who won a spot for himself with a huge game when he needed it most. Unfortunately, there was just no room for Lewis on the roster.

Looking back, we should have kept him over both Tate and West .... but we don't have that same 20/20 vision looking forward.

So, again ..... The Browns had Lewis for the 2013 season, and he got hurt and went on season ending IR. He had a solid preseason in 2014, but lost out on the final spot on the RB roster to Crowell. He then went to the Colts, and they kept him though September 14, and they cut him, He then sat at home for the whole year.

Let's not make this out to be like we had Marshawn Lynch in camp, going beast mode on everyone, and we cut him anyway. Lewis looked like a decent option, but he lost out in competition. Would you prefer that we had kept him over Crowell? (because that was the competition in 2014 training camp)

What an apology lovefest. First, if Farmer can keep 5 TE/FB around and 7 CBs, then he can keep 4 RBs. It's not like he HAD to cut him. Look around league rosters, many teams carry 4 RBs, a couple even 5.

Fact is Farmer saw Lewis for a full month and decided to keep both West and Tate and probably another handful of scrubs at other positons over him.
Now take your best guess why. He signed Tate in FA and over-drafted West in the 3rd. Both were average at best runners with attitutde problems. I called West's showboating after a couple games into the season, it was obvious and he wasn't good to begin with.
In other words, Farmer's ego got in the way to keep Lewis. Same with C.Johnson and probably Hoyer. Now this is something many GMs do, but the extent of it and the continous out-smart drafting and then of course text-gate point to Farmer being a big, incompetent idiot, who has a need to show off his smartness. Most of the time people do that when they aren't.
How often have we said: "well, what have those guys he (insert GM) cut done on other teams?"...well, this time Farmer is collecting a track record of cutting pretty good talent. Hoyer, Lewis and C.Johnson are starters in this league 12 months after Farmer got rid of them and didn't deem good enough to keep around as backups. How does this look to you?

Dear Apologist,

I had it a lot closer than what was being bandied around previously. You didn't write a novella to correct the guys who were dead wrong. Why would that be?

Let's look at some of these examples to see just how mistaken I was, shall we?

Banner/Lombardi were here when we traded a bum LBer for Lewis? Yes or no?

Lewis was spoken of very highly in TC and the team was saying he was going to be a big part of their offense? Yes or no?

Farmer cut him? Yes or no?

New England loves the guy? Yes or no?

You wanna quibble over the exact dates, be my guest. But my take was WAY more accurate than some of the deceiving posts that preceded it.

The Realist

2-4 weeks

There was one huge problem with keeping Dion last year. He was not fully recovered. He still could not even run at top speed at the time, and it's the reason he didn't stick with the colts either.

Now as for C.Johnson well lets just say Farmer blew that one. I wasn't happy when he didn't make the 53 man roster last season



Well considering that Hoyer would not have stayed as a backup. Lewis was not healed up well enough to play last season and we blew the C. Johnson deal then I would say it looks like we were either right 67 percent of the time or wrong 33 percent of the time. It depends on if your a 3/4 full kind of guy or a glass 1/3 empty kind of guy.

Love your math skills.

Not sure this has to do with perception, GM. Farmer has no problem waiting a month to get Turbin back at 100%, so why didn't that apply to D.Lewis 12 months ago?

No, it means Farmer values Turbin much more than Lewis and that's ok, that's his job to make those calls. We will see how that decision looks like at the end of the season, but considering the outcome of others, I'm not confident we will like it.

I heard a funny joke on late night TV during an election cycle a long time ago about the glass half full / half empty thing:

"Some people see the glass as half full, some see it as half empty. Bob Dole sees a good place to store his teeth at night."

I'm here all week ...

Btw, just for the record: I actually like Turbin as a player. He's better than West, so that's an upgrade right there. What irks me about the pickup is the IR-timing, the injury-stash and the roster mangement cluelessness it unveils.

Well if I am telling a joke it has to be funny

There is a difference since we thought we were set at RB last year and Dion was going to be out more than 2-4 weeks.

Call me a negative Nancy or whatever you want to call me, but Farmer will be a goner at the end of the season. You can take that one to the bank. This roster is as close to being as overrated as the one the great Heckert built. The defensive backfield is the only group where I don't see a complete overhaul coming. The D-Line is overrated but does have a few pieces. Shelton looks like a baller SO FAR, but is way too early to tell. We have by far the worst group of receivers in the entire league as Farmer bypassed two of the better drafts at the position in recent memory. Gilbert instead of Sammy Watkins? Are you freaking kidding me? I thought selecting Watkins was a no brainer pick. He's another one of our GMs that is completely lost when it comes to the RB position. I'm not even sure if Crowell is all the good. He's average at best, but on Farmer's roster he is a superstar. I won't even talk about the QB position. We all know what needs to be done there.

J/c..

I'm having a hard time with the "Buying into the FO ".. It doesn't always make sense and for the last 16 years I bought into the FO... only to see it last for a season or two.

And of course we are again told to be patient.. trust the new regime... give them time to put their plan in place.. Okay again... I'm buying into the FO.

The first game of the season hasn't even started and here we are.. somewhat a mess as fans go. Some of these last moves being made are making some upset .. some being okay ... and some not sure.

No matter what opinion you have is okay and it's good to have because there is some very good points being made by all the different ways of thinking.

My fear of letting Farmer go would be the next man up.. The best man the Browns believe they have.. the acting GM Bill Kuharich... I don't believe I would prefer this.. Then there's always the chance it could be Morocco Brown or even Sonny Weaver .That's kind of funny.

I believe the best thing Farmer has going for him is Pet..and that's a scenario we don't know how it will end up...

I'm going to try and chill and wait for the games to begin..And see how the Players in place perform... I really hope to see players step up...I'm not buying into the QB position.. Once (if) we ever get it right.. Then "buying in " may not be so difficult...

This post isn't about being a homer or a hater.. For me it's about buying in..and right now I have to wait and see what happens.. Year two starts tomorrow against the Jets and ends 15 games later.. Be nice to add a few to that number.

What is the perception around the NFL on Farmer.?
He's a joke.
If the Browns fire Farmer trust me he won't be in demand as a GM
he will end up like the great Heckert making copies at a copy
Machine and getting coffee

24th.. Really need to see how Bowe Hartline and McCown perform.. I thought he could of been more aggressive in the Free Agency pick ups.

33rd?

I wonder if it would hurt if I smashed my hand in my car door?

I'll give both thoughts the same amount of consideration.

I believe Farmer is done after this year, we will be greatly exposed at the skill positions. It doesn't take a genius to see how bad they neglected. I mean the only person that might be worse at building a team happens to be our assistant gm...

Hoyer left earlier this year, and hasn't started anything anywhere else yet.

Lewis was out of the NFL for a year. Sitting at home. Cut by the RB desperate Colts last year. He has had one good game. (with one really bad fumble on the goal line that almost cost the Pats big) Let's not pretend that he is Jim Brown. Even Brady Quinn had a good game in his 1st start.

Johnson sure does look like a miss, and I hated to see him go. I thought that he had potential to be really good. He also had solid size, and good speed. That one confused me, and definitely looks like a bad choice so far.

One thing I want to say, and this goes for every GM. If his fate is determined by a couple of UDFA who got away, then he has no hope. The Packers also let Johnson go, and they have a pretty good idea what a great WR looks like, and they let him go as well. At one time, we had Hawkins in camp as an UDFA, and we let him go as well. Was the regime at that time a bunch of morons because they let an UDFA who eventually became something go?

Oh, and Farmer saw Lewis for a whole month, and decided to keep Crowell instead of him. That was the decision.

The Colts then picked him up. They were so desperate at RB, if you recall, that they traded for Richardson only a year before. They started 3 different RB last year. All except Richardson had fewer than 100 carries. Think that Lewis could have helped them?

If we are at the point where a GM making a mistake on a 3rd round pick and an UDFA is going to determine his fate, then he might as well leave now, and I have no idea who would take the job under those conditions.

If you wanted to argue that Gilbert looks horrible so far, then that I would not debate. If you wanted to talk about Manziel, and opine that you don't see an NFL QB, well, I would debate that a bit, but could see your point. However, talking about an UDFA, who was out of football for all but one game last year, after sitting out the prior year with an injury, well, that's just kinda crazy.

I admit that I appear to have been wrong about Gilbert, as I thought that he was going to be a very good CB. We'll see if he has learned anything since last year at some point this year. Manziel .... I was cautious about that pick, but could see why they made it. I am not going to blast a regime in need of a QB taking a QB late in the 1st round. As I said on another thread, these 2 guys are the ones who will determine Farmer's "grade" for his 1st draft.

I think of it.. And this my be a bad reason to understand the choices they made .. I sometimes think the players they choose.. they choose them for the comfort ability.

Being a young GM ... Pet being a young HC and having a young coaching staff.. I wonder if they feel bringing in guys that easily buy into their system and fit in without much friction is the reason.

Some of the better players they could have brought in may have caused some conflict..Not buying in so easily..questioning the direction they want to head in...that the GM HC and coaching staff felt they weren't ready to deal with it...

It may be they just want to get players in that will get on board and help everyone around them.. That could in fact create an atmosphere where the players start believing in each other and the staff... and the next thing we know is that we have a team playing together and playing well.

It's the psychological part of the game... play together win together... It's a statement I have heard from many winning teams..

It's just a thought.. and it may be way off...It just may be the way they are trying to build a winner.

One more thing about Lewis .....

From Today's Plain Dealer:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

Pettine said the chance to claim Turbin (5-10, 222) was too important, even though he has a high ankle sprain and will probably be out another month. The Browns have only Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson on the 53, and are expected to promote Shaun Draughn from the practice squad by 4 p.m. Saturday. He said Turbin will contribute more this season than Pryor would have.

"Having always been a Robert Turbin fan, just admiring how he plays and the mentality he takes to the field, that was an opportunity we felt we couldn't pass up,'' said Pettine. "We understand that he won't be available for upwards of a month. That was something we were willing to deal with so, a lot of this league is about timing.''

He cited former Browns running back Dion Lewis, who started for the Patriots Thursday night and had 120 yards rushing and receiving. Lewis, who was still recovering from a broken leg and ligament damage last summer was waived by the Browns and ultimately picked up by New England.

"You look at a good example, just last night in Dion Lewis,'' said Pettine. "Here's a guy that a year ago was less than a year removed from an injury, just physically could not compete. Couldn't run up to full speed and it took him a year out of the league. The guys that are here that know Dion are thrilled for him, knowing the kind of guy he is, that he's able to get back out there.''

I was watching a Pettine pressure.. and him saying he's a big fan of Turbin ... Then listen to his hesitations and body language.. I almost felt he was saying that in a BS way to support Farmer

jc

Starting Farmer's farewell tour game-by-game counter:

1st/2nd round picks:

Gilbert - inactive
Manziel - 1 TD/3 TO
Bitonio - starting LG
Shelton - 1 tackle, Jets RBs ran for 152yds on 32 carries
Erving - best bench warmer on the team
Orchard - inactive

3rd/4th rd picks:

West - traded (7th)
Desir - never saw him, no stats, was dressed
D.Johnson - 7/22yds
X.Cooper - inactive

10 players, 1 good starter, 1 not so good starter and a lot of no impact

Mother of God.

Erving is the stupidest pick ever. Not saying the guy is bad or will be a bust, buy why a first rounder on someone who is not going to start. This team had many areas that pick could have helped.

If it makes you feel better, Erving will probably be starting next week in place of Grecco. the dude was knocked out for a min there.

It looked to me like he got his eye poked.

the whole OL was knocked out the entire game.

Toss the Bowe situation into that pile of mess.

Changing the team, does not always mean improving the team.

I have no idea why Cooper was inactive.

Should have traded our Erving pick for Jimmy Graham...our offense is horrid...then again our D is horrid too

Farmer...really has no clue. Another first time project that has failed in Cleveland. The SUCK continues.