DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Jets 31 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

A number of things stood out.

They let a very average quarterback have his way. There was no pass rush on any downs. Specifically on passing downs.

When you have below average quarterback play you need to able to run the ball. Crowell does not look for daylight he just into people. The supposed strength of the team the OL looked very average.

In a passing league it only stands to reason that good receivers help the passing game. Our tight ends have zero pass catching skills and lack speed in a big way. As a group our receivers lack talent.

Playmakers make plays. Brandon Marshall is an example of a play maker. Do the Browns have playmakers?

Do we have anybody who can get after the quarterback?

Penalties. There are no excuses for the number of penalties.

Turnovers are obvious negatives. Manziel showed some improvement but the issues that he had coming from college do not appear to be going away. Not much you can do about size and the ability to take hits and hold on to the ball.

The roster in my opinion is the result of poor decisions. What is and what could have been are vastly different. The results reflect the choices made.

Haden should go in the ugly category. He got worked over by Marshall all game long, it wasn't even close. That might have been the worst game I've seen from Haden since his rookie season. It pains me to say that, too.

I definitely think Haden lost the battle to Marshall but I didn't see Marshall doing anything until the second half. Maybe I'm mistaken.

That mentality is exactly what I'm talking about.

A turning point in the game in the first quarter (or early second)?

Buck up and get the ball back. Make them kick a FG. Show some damn heart and competitive fire.

It's so disheartening watching a team lay down just because they caught some bad breaks. That is a complete loser's mentality.

Other than thinking that the pass blocking was adequate, I agree with your comments. I thought McCown did a fine job while he was in, showed himself to be a real leader, and played with passion...

Nah we're just waiting for the what I saw thread to really have a good rant.

Again, our best playmaker seems to be the kicker.

Do you think an overall lack of experience in our coaching staff could have anything to do with this?

Considering we have 25 coaches and 15 more up in the booth, plus the guys on the field experiencing it... don't you think that's something that could be pointed out... oh, after the second or third time it happened and an adjustment made? Do we really need to wait until Monday to see the film? Isn't that what coaches are supposed to do during the game? Make adjustments...

I think our OL coach going nuts probably had a lot to do with the doubledidgit penalties and total crapfest by the OL.

why?

Good:
Our FG kicker nailing all those kicks left and right after each penalty... great job!

Bad:
Run defense. No pressure on the QB. Turnovers. McCown with the nine minute drive that was already bound to get points and then the turnover there/concussion. Pass protection and ability to run.

Ugly:
All the flags, they wiped away a lot of good plays, many of those were big chunk plays and again, many of those were on 3rd down. Joe Haden on Marshall. Just pretty much the entire second half and a lot of the second quarter.

The OL coach keeps these guys in check, holds them accountable. Its the one group where everyone has to be on the same page and there was just to many silly mistakes by this group.

I have three comments for now:

--I think it's nuts to think the game was lost because Gipson fumbled the ball. It was early in the game. We had a 7 point lead. Gipson was just being accountable w/his comments, but no way in the world did we lose the game because of that play! We got beat 31 to 10. There were bigger issues, such as 12 penalties, 5 turnovers, no pressure by the front seven, poor run blocking and run defense. One play did NOT lose this game. That is absurd. If there was a turning point, and I really don't think there was, it would have been when the Jets drove the length of the field for a TD right before the half. That was a painful. But, I still think we got our butts handed to us and blaming Gipson is pretty freaking lame.

--tab, I agree w/much of what you said. I am not sure about your comment about the DBs in run support, though. I thought that they were having to make too many tackles when guys got through almost untouched. They made a lot of them, but you aren't going to stop a guy like Ivory when he isn't touched and has a full head of steam. He is a guy you gotta get contact on early!

--I think most of you know that I will rip the coaches and FO when I feel it is warranted, but I am not going to blame our coaches for our RBs not cutting back. I know a bit about the position and it's all about vision. That isn't on the coaches, it's on the RB. That is why I used to argue w/you all about TRich...he had terrible vision. With that said, I really didn't see many cut-back lanes yesterday. The Jets were w/out one of their best d-lineman, but they completely dominated our o-line on running plays. There were not holes there. I will add that because we don't have WRs and/or TEs that can stretch the field vertically and because our qbs are way below average and because everyone knows we want to run the ball.......that it makes it harder to run block. This is the identity and personnnel we chose.............now we gotta live w/it.

the cleveland browns web page, the cleveland browns facebook account, and gipson himself have all called that the "turning point" in the game. Gipson said it afected him the rest of the game if you want to listed to his full interview on the Browns' web site. Matt Wilhelm, a former player, called it a turning point in the game. Everyone else acknowledges that was a major mistake that seriously affected the direction of the game.

Nobody is saying it's the only reason they lost. The penalties were huge. The drive right before half was huge, giving up the TD on the first drive of the 2nd half was huge (which, by the way, was a TD thrown where Gipson was supposed to be,) and getting the starting QB knocked out the first drive (thus zapping almost the whole practiced gameplan) which also huge. Not recovering that fumble over fitzpatrick's head was big.


I agree that the overall failure of the running game was on the OL. We had feew holes open up. the sad part was the few times they did open, the RBs weren't ready to hit them.

I think it's sad that it affected Gipson the remainder of the game and speaks to the mental make up of him as a player and the rest of the team, if they felt the same way.

Sad, just sad. We were up 7-0 when that happened.

How about this............let's disagree about a freaking turning point. We got our butts handed to us. We regained the lead AFTER that play.

What gives w/you? It's like you are trying to argue. List your Good, Bad, and Ugly and quit trying to be an ass.

Gipson was one of the very few guys who actually made plays yesterday.

Daggone guys........y'all amaze me w/what you see sometimes.

If Gipson said that play affected him the rest of the game, don't you think that speaks to his mental make up?

You and I are in agreement that it wasn't a turning point or at a minimum is sad if it was a turning point in the game. Based on what steve posted, it sounds like Gipson believes it was.

I think that demonstrates low mental toughness.

your reply that someone's opinion was that it was a turning point gave a condescending "LMAO" at the end of it, referring to the person who made the statement as "some guy." I don't like posters' opinions being belittled or that their opinion is invalid, which that sounds like. I was pointing out that it was not just "some guy" and that most people who have commented on it, including the principals involved, saw it as a turning point. If people feel like their opinion is ridiculed they might be less likely to post in the future.

Could have said you just disagreed with him without the equivalent of laughing in his face at everyone. That's what bothered me about it.

I saw that at least 3 times, and on two fumbles. Thomas had run the DE 5-7 yards behind JFF, and he'd run right into the DEs path. He would have been better off twice if he'd just moved into the area Thomas just vacated to throw (if someone was open, that is).

Got it, so rather than contributing to the thread, you chose to act like the guy you just described not liking.

Classy move!

There were a lot of good posts on this thread, and then you had to come in w/your garbage.

Take a hike.

Is it only me who finds this....., interesting???

No. I am sure many people do.

Let's stop talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly and make it another hate fest.

Vers, calm down man. You are going at some good, even keeled posters. I know they can defend themselves, and they don't need me to, but take a deep breath man. Some people think it was a turning point, some don't.

I think it's a real shame that some of our players thought it was.

steve deliberately sabotaged the thread. Fine. Then lame jumps in w/his usual productive self. Fine.

I didn't steve correct posters on all those threads in the Pure Football forum when NUMEROUS posters were ridiculing posters who questioned Farmer.

It only works sometimes. Aaargggghhhh.........Whatever, another thread ruined by BS. I seriously wonder why I even bother........

Take a look in the mirror. You are the problem.

Saying something is the reason you lost, and calling something a turning point aren't exactly the same.

Yeah because you have never done that right? Pfffff

This is an example of the difference between a good team and a bad team. When this play occurred it was clearly a potential turning point in the game. A good team either man's up on defense and stops the other team or if not the offense drives down and puts points on the board. Somebody makes a play to shift the momentum back to zero

A bad team doesn't do any of that. They basically fall apart and lets thing snowball, like we did.

Exactly. Tramon commented on it. Team was hanging their head on the sidelines.

A team of professionals. Over one play. In the first half. With the lead. Grown men. Who are supposed to be competitive.

This infuriates me like you wouldn't believe.

A lot of people have questioned leadership on this team. People assume Joe Thomas is a leader because he's an elite player, and he's been here the longest, but that's just not how it always works. I think if you have a great QB, he's obviously going to be the leader or a big part of a shared leadership. When you don't, or when you have a guy like Russell Wilson who won a SB quite young, the leadership comes from other places.

I think it's also hard for guys like Whitner or Dansby to just be the leader. They weren't brought up and raised through this program. It probably would help if it came from within. But who really knows? We have no idea what goes on behind closed locker room doors. But I cannot agree any more with you that it's beyond unacceptable to have players hanging their head and feeling sorry for themselves or feeling like "here we go again".

I just don't get that. College football isn't that much different from pro football. I get that it's the best of the best, and these are paid professionals, but doing your job, and making a difference are both ya know, what's expected of you at either level?

I wasn't even that mad about the play when it happened. It was a bad play on Gipson's part, but it was the first half. A freaking Browns fan did't see it as the end of the world, so why would a paid professional? We're the kings and queens of knowing this stuff!

The Good
1st half run defense, especially the interior. Held the Jets to 42 yards on 12 carries in the 1st half.
Gipson pick
D Bryant, especially the 1st half. He did pressure the QB a couple of times as well as getting push in the run game.
Johnny Manziel showed improvement. His best throw was the one to Benji from just inside the 25.
Our punter Lee
Hartline's hands

The Bad
Joe Haden
Manziel's ball security
Tackling
2nd half interior run D

The Ugly
Outside containment
Defeatist attitude of the players
Leadership

Then I guess we'll see what this coaching staff is made of in the following days. They had better find effective ways of dealing with this, or the season is lost before it really begins.

They are grown-ass men, for sure... but they are also performing in a structure/hierarchy that's built on teamwork and leadership. This is when your leaders earn their rank. And those leaders must be the coaches. 'Seasoned vets' can help, but the team culture is set by the guys who run the classrooms and give the marching orders. This responsibility will be on them... as it should be.

If this team comes out fired up, and bounces back from in-game mishaps, I'll know that Pettine & co. worked on character issues as well as playbooks. If they come out and give up for a second game in a row.... I seriously won't want to watch them in Game 3.

Coaches need to fix this fast.
Crap like this can kill more than just a single football game... it can kill a football season.

Man, are we ever on the same page with this one. I chalked that one play up to 'typical Browns luck,' but fully expected to see more effort like that as the game progressed. It galled me to see them lay down after that.

I don't ever get upset at bad luck on a football play. THE ONLY THING that upsets me is watching guys not trying to do their best.

OK. It's been 24 hours. I think I can do this now.

GOOD
1. Andy Lee
2.
3.

BAD
1. Penalties/mental errors. A whole football field's worth. Drive killers and wind-suckers.
2. Lack of contain defensing running backs who bounce their routs outside.
3. No pressure on the QB all day.

UGLY

1. The way this team just gave up when the score was 21-10. Inexcusable.

[quote=Versatile Dog]steve deliberately sabotaged the thread. Fine. Then lamejumps in w/his usual productive self. Fine.

[/quote\]

Lol, nice! And to think I was starting to warm up to ya. My bad.

They gave up when the score was 7 - 0, in the Browns favor!