DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Team Morale

I have no facts and I am not even saying I am right, but my intuition is usually pretty good. I have read a few comments from players questioning personnel decisions. I watched our team play sloppy ball in the opener. I watched them quit when things got tough. I have seen many, many questionable personnel decisions. I have heard corny phrases about "playing like a Brown," and then we cut guys who play like professionals and keep guys who have not, but were brought in by the current regime. I have seen good players like Winn, Kitchen, Skrine, etc not retained, while stiffs like Gilbert, Bowe, Orchard, and Meder are retained.

I see a first time GM who has no experience w/the draft. I see a first time head coach who hides behind his sunglasses. I see an owner who is a crook. I see a first time OC who doesn't understand run blocking like his predecessor. I see a first time QB coach who never had a meaningful job before.

These guys are in charge of grown men.

It's too early to say that team morale is low or that this regime has lost the team. Let me say that again......it is too early to declare that team morale is low and the regime has lost the players.

However, it is NOT too early to keep an eye on this possible situation. I have been around the game enough to know warning signs when they raise their ugly heads. There are some signs. I will be monitoring the situation.

I wondering what vets like Haden Thomas and Mack are saying or thinking behind closed doors.
Joe Thomas is this decades Archie Manning.great player who will never see a playoff game.
I think morale is low and if this team loses to the a rookie QB coming up the season is over.
yes 2 games in.
I see no sense of urgency or fire.
I haven't seen it since that playoff team of 2002.
Farmer has put together a roster that lacks cohesivness or a team first attitude.
Pettine ran a training camp like a kiddie safety school.
They lost to a Jets team who's trifecta on offense were NOT DRAFTED BY THE JETS.
other teams castoffs.

It's easy for us to say "they are pros and grown men, they should be together and play hard, etc, etc" ... but I'd probably agree. And IMO it's been like this for the majority of 17 years.

It's like they don't REALLY care. Sure, they'd like to do well, but it's not like they'd do anything to win. Collect a paycheck, stay healthy, get out.

I do think we have some really good guys on the team, but there is still a disconnect

Wait a minute,,, if they lack team morale, there is only one way to fix that. WIN

It's on them to turn it around. The coaching staff can only teach.. They have to learn and then use what they are taught.

They ARE grown men and should act like it. Grow up, do your jobs well.

I would think that how we respond next week will provide the answer and how much faith the team has in the coaching staff.

If we can rebound and execute plays well, then it was just a fluke. That being said, if there is another week like Sunday...what and how does the FO respond?

Joe Thomas being so frank around the media is a major cause for concern. Every quote he says reads like he's burnt out and know they have no chance this year.

I agree w/your points, but not sure if you understood mine?

It can be tough when you constantly hear stuff like "play like a Brown," while those same people give guys like Gordon, Gilbert, Manziel, and Bowe a pass.

It's tough when you see good players like Winn, Skrine, Sheard, Kitchen get let go for guys like Housler, Meder, Gilbert, Carder, etc.

It's tough when you cut a guy by saying "you have to produce now" and replace him w/a guy who is going to miss at least a few weeks.

It's tough when you run Camp Cupcake and then see so many guys go down w/injuries.

It's tough when you see your GM draft a dud like Gilbert and a guy like Manziel while passing on guys like Teddy and Beckham. Then, they turn around and draft Erving in round 1 this year???? Mayle????

That last paragraph can be contended easily. I get how it's up to the players to play and let the FO draft. I do.

I just think there is a whole lotta stuff adding up. Most of them bad. It's a weight on the player's shoulders. I am almost certain of that.

I pray I am wrong and if I am...........I will admit to it.

i do think players bought into that. i do think the players see what a joke it is.

Correct, it is up to the players to play with pride and effort. I disagree, that the coaching staff "can only teach." Most importantly, the coaching staff, specifically, the HC needs to lead and set the tone for the team.

In the offseason to present, Pettine ran a soft training camp, half the time the vets were busy standing on the sideline wearing bucket hats, as though this team has earned the right to slack off in TC. Pettine's body language was quite sad after the Jets game, head down and could barely make eye contact.

I like Pettine, he seems like a nice guy. However, I get the impression the guy is milquetoast, which is unfortunate. And, it seems to me the team is taking on that same identity.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Browns player quotes - Sept. 14

Link

Brian Hartline, Duke Johnson, Chris Kirksey chat with reporters


WR Brian Hartline
RB Duke Johnson Jr.
LB Christian Kirksey
DB Tramon Williams


WR Brian Hartline:
On the game film:
“A lot of missed opportunities. Definitely a tale of two halves. The first half was a different situation than the second half. We didn’t capitalize on our opportunities.”

On the Browns’ frustration level now:
“I wouldn’t say frustration. I would just say disappointment. Half the teams are going to feel that way in the beginning of the year. For everyone who picked us to go 16-0, it is not happening. We will move onto the next one.”

On switching from QB Josh McCown to QB Johnny Manziel:
“I don’t really think that was a thought process at some point. Obviously, it happened and we move forward.”

On why the two halves were so different:
“I think at some point when the scoring starts to change, their ability to continue the pressure because they could afford a big play on our side, sometimes it can change the game plan. If you score even and you can keep them a little more honest, sometimes that can make it easier on offense. We didn’t do that offensively. We made it harder for ourselves.”

On moving forward:
“It is not the first time we lose, and it might not be the last one either. There are a lot of vets in the locker room. It is (on) to the next one.”

On what the Browns did well yesterday:
“I think third downs we were converting pretty well. We were staying on the field for the most part. The ones that we didn’t convert, a lot of them were self-inflicted wounds from holding or turnovers or anything like that. I think that was the positive. I think we will continue to build on that, but overall, I think there were some times in the red zone where we should have got the ball in the end zone to keep the points going up. We will continue to move forward.”

RB Duke Johnson Jr.:
On his first NFL game:
“It was alright. It would have been better if we got the win”

On if he was nervous:
“First play, I always have butterflies. After you get that first hit out, you are fine.”

On grade himself for his first game:
“OK grade, not really sure. Not getting the win does not help and also I think I missed a couple of holes in the game. It was an OK grade.”

On how much he attributes the rushing game yesterday to his lack of reps:
“I think that comes with the first game of the season with any team. The plays that we did have, we had penalties. That is something we are talking about limiting. It comes with the first game of the season, being back out there in live action. I think we will be able to pick it up from here.”

On if there were holes to run through when he watched the film:
“There were.”

On why the Browns struggled to run the ball yesterday:
“I just think it was the first game jitters. Everyone is getting back out there, and we are all trying to get on one accord now. I think we can come back to the drawing board and fix some things up. It was all little things that we can fix, and we just didn’t do it in the game. Now, we are coming back to the drawing board and we are going to get it right.”

On it sounding like he is not too concerned about the running game:
“No, I think it is too early in the season to be concerned about the rushing game when there are a lot of things that we can do to fix it. The guys that we have up front will especially be a big help, too.”

LB Christian Kirksey:
On if there were a lot of missed tackles on the film:
“There were more than we want. We are a team that holds itself to a high standard and we hold each other accountable. Whenever we get more than three missed tackles and everything like that, we have to avoid that.”

On why the Browns didn’t play up to their standards:
“It is just one of those things where you work so hard throughout training camp and you work so hard throughout preseason and when you get to showcase your talents and put it all together and you fall short, it is kind of devastating. Like I said, it is Week 1. We didn’t put our best foot forward. We are not going to overthink it. We are going to put it in a box and learn from it.”

On what defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil said about the performance:
“That is not who we were or who we are. We know what we have to do. Like I said, a lot of people are going to count us out just after Week 1 or say it is the same old Browns. We are not going to overreact. All we are going to do is get better.”

On putting a game like that behind you:
“Just like any other play. When you have a bad play, you have to move onto the next and not let it accumulate into something bigger. Whenever you have a loss like that, you definitely don’t want to take it to Week 2. You have to mentally put it behind you, but at the same time learn from it.”

DB Tramon Williams:
On the defense’s play yesterday:
“It is tough. I thought we came out on fire. I thought we came out on fire. It seemed like when a couple circumstances went on throughout the game, the whole feel of the team went down. The momentum of the team went down. We have to do a better job of that. I saw that on the sideline. As far as the sideline and things of that nature, guys sitting on the sideline with their heads down, it is too early for that. You have to come out and play. You have to always believe. I think that is where we do need to get to.”

On how the Browns get there:
“Learning. Learning from, like I said, one week at a time. Learn from your mistakes from the past and bring it to the future. Obviously, now it is all about Tennessee. We have to get ready for those guys, but at the same time, we have to correct what we did this game before we move onto Tennessee.”

On if the defense feels they have something to prove to themselves:
“It wasn’t the way we wanted to start as a team, and at the end of the day as a unit, we want to play better, yes. At the same time, as a team, we didn’t play well. That we want to do, obviously. Like you said, defensively, we want to be the best defense in the league. We didn’t start that way. We just have to keep working. At the end of the day, we just have to keep working.”

Thank you Tramon.

Team of mental midgets.

Unbelievable.

The Browns have a very hard schedule after the Titans and Raiders. I thought they really had a good chance to go 3-0. I would assume the players may thought that as well. I don't see how their morale can be any good right now. As professionals, I know they have to erase that loss from their minds, but it has to be really tough to shake it off.

Bad morale: Pettine shows no real emotion. It's just the same tone. We lost and now it's on to next week. He should have been livid after that performance! I don't see what goes on behind closed doors, but watching his press conferences, it is hard to imagine anything is different behind closed doors. A team will be a direct reflection of it's leader.

And you are a FAN of that team?

More like young men who are trying to become men..

J/c

Of all those quotes, the only one I had concern with really was Tramon. The other players were just saying yeah, we had some jitters, made some mistakes and we will fix. Tramon gave the real insight so in that regard, Vers might be onto something.

Living Down Under, I get to see the game usually a day or 2 after its played (I'm either in bed or in work when it's on "live") so I guess I have the benefit of watching without the emotion, and the raw feeling of a live debacle when the result is known and I've read match day and review threads here. What I saw v the Jets was a great start. Those opening drives by both QBs I thought were outstanding and I really could not understand why the wheels fell off.

I don't think anybody saw it coming that the player group that were least likely to lay an egg would be the QBs. As for players heads down on the sideline, someone needed to recognise that and bring their heads back into what was at the time, a finely balanced competition. There's enough vets and coaches over there to get it done. Maybe understand why it couldn't be Whitner given he was playing like a goose and was probably in his own head.

I don't know if there's merit in the point that the op initially made but I know this. We better be prepared to play right off the bat v the Titans. I would expect to see significant improvement.

We have a team with a Rookie QB coming into town riding high off of a 4 TD game..

Bring them back down to earth and you'll start to see the morale rise up..

Let him have his way, and well.. I don't even know..

Winning cures all in sport.

It's a line in the sand make a statement sort of game now isn't it after that capitulation. They've put an enormous amount of pressure on themselves. If they'd kept after it against the Jets and gone down swinging and made it close bloodying a few noses then everyone in the world wouldn't be expecting a top 3 2016 draft pick.

winning cures all ills, but we've all been deathly sick for 15+ years

Interesting discussion Vers.

-In regards to roster: I understand that there will be young guys who come in to camp, and become a favorite of other players (i.e. Lenz). But there's still a business side to things, and I think its says more about the player than it does the team if he can't continue to be a professional (I'm speaking about Whitner). I'm probably unfairly picking on him, but after Whitner's performance this past week, he needs to shut his mouth about who should be on this roster. Yeah he had a few good hits, but he was missing tackles just as much as the others because he was half assing it (i.e the TD run where he tried to bump the guy instead of trying to tackle him).

-In regards to camp cupcake: I think this is on both Pettine AND the players. I didn't hear a single report of any of our Vets turning down an offered day off. On top of that, most of the injuries were muscle/tendon related. I'm not a sports medicine professional, but it seemed to me that many of those guys with hammy issues weren't exactly in a hurry to get back in to action.

With the exception of a few guys, there really didn't seem to be much sense of urgency did there? IMO this weeks loss is probably more due to an overconfidence and even a touch laziness.

It is something to watch for, I agree

I don't see anything to indicate a poor morale. It's way too early for that.

I think the poor morale is in the fanbase. That isn't to point fingers at anybody. I am not saying that is right or wrong. I understand how some people might have poor morale.

The upcoming TEN game is the most winnable on the schedule and I think they will respond and win it. Vegas agrees btw and has us favs and I am thinking about putting some money on us, although that would lead to double frustration if they lose it. This roster has enough vets to win those kind of games, they signed multiple older, experienced guys and I expect them to respond. T.Williams, Starks, Whitner, Dansby, Hartline etc

But if they lose next sunday too? Oh boy, then we're in for a first year Mangini-season re-run

I just saw a team lose their starting QB. Very few team go unaffected by that. I saw a BIG PHYSICAL WR in Brandon Marshall demoralize our secondary including Joe Haden. That interception that got stripped by Marshall just destroyed our entire team and made them feel pathetic.

Johnny does not have what it takes YET to motivate these guy beyond these kind of circumstances after barely having practice for 2 weeks.

It's not the end of the world fellas. Josh will be back soon and hopefully playing a little bit safer with his body because at 38 he just has to do that. He was playing great while he was in there =)

There is plenty to hope for so don't give up the season already guys!

I understood exactly what you meant, I just feel that if you want to fix team morale, it starts with the Vets setting the rules and making damn sure the younger guys stick to them.

There is only so much an Owner, GM, President, HC or assistants can do. Teams that turn it around are teams that have vets that take control.

I'm looking directly at guys like Thomas, Mack, Haden, Whitner, Dansby etc.

Having said that, talent is lacking on this team and in my opinion, that lands on Farmer and his folks. With that in mind, even top Vets like those mentioned above can only do so much. Somewhere along the line, we need an infusion of Talent.

Agreed. At some point, it's not the coach or the GM or any of it.

It's up to the guys on the team. We've been through many coaches. Many GMs. None have caught on.

At some point, it's the guys who are accountable. And they need to want to win. Whether Josh Lentz gets cut, Terrance Williams gets traded, the Kitchen gets cut, and so on.........

They should be embarrassed to collect a pay check, wear their jersey, drive their expensive automobiles, and kick back in their expensive homes/condos after that game against the Jets. They are professionals, and no matter who is coaching them, they have a duty to do.


Now, I'm of the opinion that we'll definitely look much better next week. We'll win against the Titans, win against the Raiders, and we'll be 2-1 by week 4. But what we saw against the Jets was unacceptable, and if that's what we're going to see all season, everyone must go.

I think losing McCown hurt not so much for his play on the field as it hurt losing his presence on the sideline. He's really our only upbeat motivator type person on O.

I think Haden having an off day hurt the whole D. He's usually that upbeat, energy guy on D, but didn't seem to be himself. Hopefully Joe can get right and Shelton can step up, too. Going up against Mangold is a pretty rough first assignment.

The whole team seemed to be playing tight. We need to figure out how to play aggressive, but still loose. We seemed like a bunch of guys out there playing on their own instead of a team/family. I noticed Dansby somewhat uncharacteristically chewing Kirksey out instead of trying to pick him up.

I don't think we have X's and O's issues or talent issues. We have attitude issues. There's too much negativity around the team, and I'm not sure how you fix that. The media/public perception will probably only get worse after that egg we laid.

I guess if I were Pettine I'd put the team in lockdown mode. No social media, ESPN, etc. I'd probably try to mix up the locker room, too. Try to spread out the positive guys to keep the team up. The problem with all the roster turnover we've had is we don't really have a tight team. We might have to go the us against the world route to try to foster the esprit de corps we need.

Got right on it, eh?

Won't argue a single point, but I will contend they are grown men and professionals, coaches and players. Flags and crappy play are unacceptable. The bike riders need to play well. Pett said they have to coach better and takes an immediate share of responsibility. Morale is important, but has its own smaller place after a single game.
Coaching is instructing and correcting. The flags and crappy play are mental as are missed tackles. I don't care about feelings and morale much; do your jobs. And I can't realistically write all that was awful Sunday and set it aside for morale.

This "lost the team" stuff is a discussion for later, say post-bye maybe if it is real at all. Now is not the time for that.

Except that it looked like nobody cared. And that's what worries me. Nobody caring on the first game of the season.

We've lost 11 in a row. Joe Thomas must have lost at least 8 of those. Alex Mack, like 6. Joe Haden, may be 4 or 5? Gipson lost his third in a row. Probably Mitchell Schwartz too.

Motivation should not have been an issue.



Hopefully it's just an oddball week and they step up against the Titans.

they're suppose to be professionals, but let's be real:

11 straight loses in season openers. thats a morale hit straight up.

getting blown out, who isn't gonna have their head hanging down on the sidelines?

nobody on the defensive side of the ball performed. very few on offense performed. it was just a bad game, but a bad game on the road.

we are here in the land next sunday. home opener. i expect them to light a fire under their asses.

This is a really good point. Maybe he shouldn't be running the ball as much as he has, but I really think this was why he went for the TD. He's going to lead by example. Did any of you guys see the angle from the endzone? He looked like a daggone madman and he wanted that TD bad. He's been criticized for it, but its also one of those plays that had he scored, it would have been a huge momentum boost.

Haden always seems to have at least one game every season where he gets his lunch money taken doesn't he?

It seems to me that our first drive with McCown looked pretty good. Not perfect by a long shot, but yet a sustained, clock eating, moving the football kind of drive. What I would consider a best case scenario kind of thing. When McCown took that first hit, I said to myself that he has to be smarter than that. So much for that idea. I would say I'm not so sure if he can come back and realize he's an NFL pocket QB and not the second coming of Fran Tarkenton, we may have a chance to show a little something.



Now I do believe you may have exaggerated the crook point and the sunglasses issue, otherwise, I agree with you. It seems posters wish to blame the players, and to an extent they have a point. But the coaching staff and FO has the responsibility to gather quality talent and have this team ready to play. They certainly were not.

Some of us have pointed out that our staff may lack the experience to effective at teaching and leading our team. Some dismiss anything people say that questions the powers that be. You'll have that on a message board. People have different opinions. I believe it could be a huge deciding factor in many games this season when it comes to identifying needed adjustments.

The huge number of penalties rest on the heads of the coaching. Total lack of discipline. This coaching staff understood what was needed from day one. The ability to run the ball and stop the run. They had an entire off season to address it and change it. Yet we saw the same old thing. Do people really believe we can suddenly change it now after it being the focus of an entire off season?

It is too early to say for sure as you stated. But early on, it seems many of the things that people called some posters "negative posters" about, are real concerns, not something people were just making up to be negative. It's not a prerequisite to be blind in order to be a Browns fan.

I can understand why the players were deflated (even though it's a bad sign that they were).

They went from their starting QB scoring an opening drive TD to losing him for the game on a turnover.

They had a red zone pick turned into red zone TD following Gipson's fumble.

They were told they were going to run the ball and stop the run and did neither.

Their offense either turned the ball over or went 3 and out on most of their drives.

The coaching staff was completely outcoached coming out of halftime.

It was a tough game and it was clear that we weren't prepared at all for it. The challenge will be getting these guys motivated for the next game... which is a home opener against the 2nd easiest opponent left on our schedule. They should come out strong and confident.

If they come out flat and blow it vs. Tennessee? This season could turn into an unmitigated disaster.

I'm blaming anybody and everybody.... in some games its a little easier to say one group or one set of guys did well and the others did not (including the staff)... in this game, nothing looked good.

+1

...points to deeper problems that will be more exploitable later in the year (or for sure in his career)some would say. Any technique flaws overcome with athletics and buried under the rest of teams more glaring problems.

A much more glaring problem is zero pass rush allowing opposing QB's to stand in the pocket all day and then blame the CB's.

Pretty sure we should change the slogan from "Play like a Brown" to "You cant make this sh*t up"

Sad actually...I know this board is collectively all really true diehards...and we fight because we are all unhappy with having an inferior product yearly...it has go change right? 16 years later...and it hasn't...Truly unbelievable

Already, Mike Pettine must fight losing attitude infecting Browns

Losing attitudes can seep into a team without a team even knowing it.

Bred by losing, buoyed by culture and fed by negativity, a losing attitude can overwhelm much that teams try to accomplish.

No player or coach wants it, seeks it or accepts it.

But the Cleveland Browns find themselves fighting that attitude -- after the first week of the season.

An embarrassing season-opening loss to the Jets has fans angry and players around the league asking: What the heck is going on in Cleveland?

In almost every other city, it would be too soon to talk of this issue. It’s not in Cleveland. Not when the team has been over .500 once since 2003. Not when the team has lost an NFL record 11 season-opening games in a row. Not when the Browns are outmanned, outfought and outplayed by a team that finished three games worse than the Browns did a year ago. And especially not when one of the team’s new veterans, a respected player who came from a winning culture, said he noticed during the game players starting to hang their heads when things went awry.

"It seemed like when a couple circumstances went on throughout the game, the whole, I guess, feel of the team went down," cornerback Tramon Williams said. "The momentum of the team went down. We got to do a better job (with) that. I saw that on the sideline ... Guys sitting down on the sidelines with their heads down. It’s too early for that. We got to come out and play. We got to always believe."

This might be the toughest nut for Mike Pettine to crack. It’s certainly one that other coaches have found next to impossible to fix. How does a team gain belief without results? The Browns seemed to be gaining belief last season, but poor play and their own actions undermined a 7-4 start.

Five losses ended the season, and the streak hit six on Sunday.

One game into the season -- one game! -- Pettine has already discussed attitude in a meeting with his veterans.

"It is difficult when that is the past history," Pettine said. "It is easy to fall into, 'Here we go again.'"

Pettine talked about being even-keel. Williams, who had one losing season in seven in Green Bay, talked about belief. He, like many other players and coaches before him, said part of the reason he’s in Cleveland is to upend the culture.

"Some things need to change and it has to start with belief," he said. "You have to believe whether you’re down or up."

Williams faces what many other coaches and players before him have faced: The chicken or the egg question of whether belief breeds winning or winning breeds belief.

The Browns have obvious deficiencies. In all those years in Green Bay, Williams had Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers at quarterback. The Browns have Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel. The Browns also have a receiver guaranteed $9 million who isn’t contributing. The running backs have to prove themselves. A boastful defense gave up 154 yards rushing, two touchdowns passing and was pushed around. There is a glaring need for playmakers.

Add in the negativity that goes with years of losing and struggle, which is always brought up when things go wrong, and the climb becomes that much tougher.

The Browns have what they have. They might truly be in the tired old situation where they are the only ones who believe they can win.

But one thing is certain: If they give in to their deficiencies and lose faith when things go wrong, there will be a lot more results like Sunday’s.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...nfecting-browns

j/c......but, that was a good article, play.

--There were a lot of thoughtful posts. I like that even those of you who disagreed w/me did so respectfully. I appreciate that.

--I may not have been as clear as I had hoped to be. I am NOT just referring to our performance vs the Jets. I am certainly including the game, but I am also looking at many of our moves, the propaganda that is being put out, comments by players that you hardly ever see, the history of losing, etc, etc.

--The Browns need something positive to occur. I can only think of one thing. That is if Johnny comes out next week and lights it up. I don't care about his numbers too much, but if he can put points on the board, show toughness, be a leader, and then lead us on a late game-winning drive.............things can turn around. Again, I have no real proof of my concerns, but I have been pretty good in the past at spotting such issues. This team needs an infusion of positive news.

Proof or not the body language Sunday in the second half was grim. Everyone knows winning a few games will help but to cure all we need a huge infusion of positive news, something like the playoffs are on the horizon or it looks like we finally have our QB

I agree with Vers.