Josh Gordon Arrested in North Carolina

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Another considerations is how absolutely BRAIN DEAD Gordon is. Do we really want a player that has nothing between his ears? How damned hard is it to hire a car service? If I was a pro ball player I'd NEVER drive myself anywhere.... "Home James" would be my mantra. But no, while facing an INDEFINITE suspension, he decides hiring a service isn't "cool". He'd rather drive drunk so he can get suspended for a longer period. A year off wasn't long enough for him. His appeal was coming up and he wanted to make absolutely SURE the league suspends him for longer than one season.

It's not that he doesn't "get it". It's that he doesn't give a damn. He WANTS to be out of the league. His every waking moment is dedicated to that goal.
The term "Meathead" as in dead from the neck up, suits him perfectly.

Agreed

Consider his career over until further notice.

Maybe Belichick takes a flier on him a few years down the line.

What a waste.

On his current path, he's going to end up a trivia question. "Josh who?" "He had one great year, couldn't stay off drugs."

What a freakin idiot.

Man this kid is just loaded with talent,,, and I guess booze and drugs as well.. What a freakin idiot.

That just seals the deal for AT LEAST a one year suspension

I'll take "athletes who couldn't pull it together for 500, Alex."

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D'Qwell Jackson ✔ @DQ52
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If you're close to Josh Gordon please help this kid, it's not about football anymore it's about picking up the pieces of his life.
2:19 PM - 5 Jul 2014

The Browns have tried to help Josh Gordon, but all that good will and consideration those close to Gordon, apparently has all been wasted.

No one is going to help Josh Gordon until Gordon helps himself. He has to want to change..to walk away from his destructive lifestyle and prove to himself and to those who have tried to help, that he can do it.

Gordon's word is meaningless and it's time for those trying to help him, to walk away from Gordon, leaving him alone to fight his own demons..to see if Gordon has what it takes to overcome the demons within.

If I'm the Browns, no way do I cut Josh Gordon...If he is able to overcome his problems and play again in the NFL, it should be with the Browns.

Waste of a good life.

On the upside, at least the kid is consistant.

Yup. How dumb can this guy possibly be? I mean, it almost looks like he's intentionally trying to get into trouble at this point.

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Josh Gordon keeps some interesting company on the road
Posted by Darin Gantt on July 5, 2014, 7:05 PM EDT
joshgordon AP

Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon was just over the legal limit when arrested for DWI, but his choice in friends on the road will raise even more questions.

According to WRALSportsfan.com in Raleigh, N.C., Gordon was pulled over this morning for doing 50 in a 35 mph zone. He then blew a .09, just over North Carolina’s legal limit of .08.

But the interesting part might have been his choice in traveling companions.

Gordon’s $500 bond was paid by Haydn “Fats” Thomas, who has a long history in the Raleigh area.

A well-known hustler in the Triangle area, Thomas has been connected to other automotive misadventures.

When former North Carolina basketball star P.J. Hairston was stopped and busted for possession of marijuana, he was driving a car which was rented by Thomas. Hairston ended up tossed out of UNC and spent a year in the D-League before he was drafted by the Hornets this summer.

Thomas is described as a “party promoter” and is a convicted felon.

..awesome.

.09? Come on. This is no big deal. You guys crack me up with your overreactions.

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.09? Come on. This is no big deal. You guys crack me up with your overreactions.

If he were a player who happened to blow a .09 on the 4th with no prior offenses, it wouldn't be a huge deal.

When you're about to be suspended for a year because you can't stop using drugs, it's not such small potatoes.

It's the law, isn't it?

Dude's a jagoff.

It's almost surreal

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Cut him.

Cut him and he'll find another team before the ink dries on the paperwork.
All the Browns can do is plan to be without him and ride it out. Either Gordon comes around or he doesn't. If by some miracle he does find his way it's a bonus.
Nobody ever said being a Browns fan was easy.

How come the most talented receiver the Browns acquire since the rebirth is the one of the dumbest individuals to grace the NFL? Why can't we get a break for once?

I know he's had issues in the past but just to put this into perspective...

He's 225lbs. A quick calculation shows a 0.09 BAC is just under 8 beers in 3 hours.

Imagine going to Buffalo Wild Wings and having 4 of their tall beers during a Browns game then driving home.

That's basically what Josh Gordon had.

cut him now

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cut him now

For everyone saying this ...

From a business and football perspective, what does cutting him accomplish?

Everyone needs to stop trying to take the moral high ground. These guys aren't here to be model citizens, they're here to win football games. If after his suspension, he can help us win games, what good does it do to cut him? None.

If he doesn't clean his act up, he'll never play again but if he does, we need to make sure it's in a Cleveland Browns uniform.

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I know he's had issues in the past but just to put this into perspective...

He's 225lbs. A quick calculation shows a 0.09 BAC is just under 8 beers in 3 hours.

Imagine going to Buffalo Wild Wings and having 4 of their tall beers during a Browns game then driving home.

That's basically what Josh Gordon had.

It's not so much the DWI alone, but the collection of poor decisions he has made since strapping on a helmet on the national stage (including college). Gordon is a man child incapable of making good decisions for himself. You would think he'd learn not only from his past but also Blackmon's situation as well. It's quite possible that he finds himself unemployed soon if he doesn't straitened up soon.

Don't cut him because the Browns don't lose anything keeping him, but I do hope he gets suspended for the year. That might be the only thing that wakes this kid up.

Look, if a guy shows up at 8:03 it's not a huge deal, but if he's been warned repeatedly not to be late, after awhile it is.

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cut him now

For everyone saying this ...

From a business and football perspective, what does cutting him accomplish?

Everyone needs to stop trying to take the moral high ground. These guys aren't here to be model citizens, they're here to win football games. If after his suspension, he can help us win games, what good does it do to cut him? None.

If he doesn't clean his act up, he'll never play again but if he does, we need to make sure it's in a Cleveland Browns uniform.

This is the perspective Browns fans need to have. It's not hurting the team keeping him, unless he is a locker room distraction (which nobody is coming out saying).

I have a question does this impact the hearing in July?
I am thinking it cant. He hasnt been convicted of a DUI yet? That wont happen until august

I was hoping after the season was over...we'd sell high and trade away Gordon...I just never cared for his background and knew he was going to repeat and fall in relapse he has that very low key "I don't care" personality (heck I would have traded Gordon straight up for 2nd round pick and maybe some throw ins) I don't post all that much but anyways anyone who remembers me I have a cousin that conducts a lot of interviews with the Browns players and front office (I'm sure some will remember when I had my cousin ask Shurmur about a specific situation...indeed my cousin asked and everyone on the board busted up because Shurmur got pissed lol) long story short...My cousin had told me when he walked past Gordon late last year outside of the offices (maybe he meant parking area?) That Gordon smelled of a weed...so its really no surprise to me...as Browns fans its surely a shame

j/c

if only he would have insisted on a blood alcohol test, that would have bought him about 45 minutes, and he would have burned off the .01 to make him legal.

oh well.

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j/c

if only he would have insisted on a blood alcohol test, that would have bought him about 45 minutes, and he would have burned off the .01 to make him legal.

oh well.

You really would have thought someone would tell him the rules on that. I mean, that's basic stuff.

Anyway, for those of the morality brigade, what would you do if the Browns had LT in his prime?

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The Browns have tried to help Josh Gordon, but all that good will and consideration those close to Gordon, apparently has all been wasted.

No one is going to help Josh Gordon until Gordon helps himself. He has to want to change..to walk away from his destructive lifestyle and prove to himself and to those who have tried to help, that he can do it.

Gordon's word is meaningless and it's time for those trying to help him, to walk away from Gordon, leaving him alone to fight his own demons..to see if Gordon has what it takes to overcome the demons within.

If I'm the Browns, no way do I cut Josh Gordon...If he is able to overcome his problems and play again in the NFL, it should be with the Browns.

That pretty much sums it all up and nails it bro

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j/c

if only he would have insisted on a blood alcohol test, that would have bought him about 45 minutes, and he would have burned off the .01 to make him legal.

oh well.

You really would have thought someone would tell him the rules on that. I mean, that's basic stuff.

Anyway, for those of the morality brigade, what would you do if the Browns had LT in his prime?

Unless he had his last drink right before driving. Then any extra time passing would allow the alcohol to get further into his system.

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what would you do if the Browns had LT in his prime?

Gordon's about to pass LT in career suspensions for drugs.

This isn't an issue or morality. It's an issue of stupidity.

This charge just adds more fuel to the fire against him.

He is Mr. Self-Destruct. And that's exactly what it is.

We once had Kevin Mack, and he did far worse than Gordon has.

Who knows? Maybe he'll also find his redemption somewhere while he is forced to be away from the game. Maybe this wakes him up.

Probably not ..... but let's hope, and those of us who pray, can pray for him straightening himself out. Not even just for the sake of the Browns, but so this kid doesn't drive his career, literally, right into the ditch.

Guys like this need to hit rock bottom before they change.. Problem is, I don't think he has yet.. Still has money and a job.. at least till he's suspended.

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We once had Kevin Mack, and he did far worse than Gordon has.

I don't think Mack was ever suspended more than once.

Josh "can't get right" Gordon... love watching him play, hate seeing this. Hope he get's turned around.

But what is the point of trading him or cutting him?

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Guys like this need to hit rock bottom before they change.. Problem is, I don't think he has yet.. Still has money and a job.. at least till he's suspended.

I'm thinking once he is suspended all year that may be the kick in the butt he needs, but truthfully? I don't think he's gonna straighten himself out. It's almost too late already. He will lose his career and surely burn through his money. He will be one of those guys we just read about from time to time, and his mugshot(s) will help tell the story.... along with... well, the actual story. lol

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But what is the point of trading him or cutting him?

There is NO POINT AT ALL. Let him serve out his suspension, see if he gets help or try to get him some help and go from there.

Kid doesn't seem to be a bad egg, he just can't get right.

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But what is the point of trading him or cutting him?

I never advocated doing either.

I'd certainly trade him if the price was right, but his stock isn't very high right now.

We've got him on the cheap for a bit. If he pulls it together, great. If not, see ya.

I wouldn't be shocked if the team waived him, but I wouldn't.

One would think that after being suspended that he would do absolutely everything in his power to stay away from weed and alcohol considering what he has to lose with further run ins.

Be the law right or wrong, or be the NFL rules fair or unfair has nothing to do with it. In Josh's case weed and/or alcohol can cost him millions of dollars. With his proven talent that could be millions and millions of dollars along with a historically, illustrious NFL career for which he's worked his whole life toward. So one would think it would be an easy decision to stay away from such things no matter how much it hurt or how much the buzz is calling.

But I say that about someone who has issues I don't have.

In my life I make many stupid decisions and by that go on to perform the same stupid actions over and over which are really not toward my own best interests. I often think of myself, "Damn, why do I keep doing this?!" And I'm not talking about illegal things. Just repeating stupid mistakes the likes of which don't cost me millions but do cost me significant grief time and time again.

It's easy for me to point to another person's shortcomings conveniently overlooking my own even though mine is just as "stupid" and just as easily avoided.

I don't know what to think about Josh Gordon nor do I have any advice for him. What I do have is a lack of authority to pass judgement upon him. I love the guy for what he's done for us using his talent and feel bad for him as it seems he's in the grip of something of which he thinks he has no control even though he does. That's a shame. I've been there many times myself, for different reasons, so I can hardly cast the first stone.

I hope he gets the help to get his mind right. Both for the Browns but even more for himself.

OK, so Gordon clearly likes to hang out with lowlifes... Why does he have to drive them around?

So how's that decision to pass on Watkins working out now?.. Idiots.

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We once had Kevin Mack, and he did far worse than Gordon has.

I don't think Mack was ever suspended more than once.

Vastly different rules back then. There was not nearly as much in depth drug testing, (comparatively) and Mack didn't stop until he wound up in the middle of a massive drug deal with a (person of ill repute) by his side. (IIRC) His penalty was brought about by being sentenced to 6 months in prison for cocaine use.He was suspended by the NFL for ...... are you ready .......

30 days.

The only reason why he was suspended was because of the criminal aspect of the case. That would have been his 1st positive test otherwise.

Now if anyone believes that he had just started using cocaine at that point, then they are living in a fantasy land. To me, cocaine use is far worse than marijuana and even driving at 0.09%. In the days when Mack was arrested, a 0.09% likely wouldn't have even gotten a driver arrested. The limit in those days was .10%, and even then a driver was liable to slide if he wasn't visually impaired. Heck, prior to 1982, the legal limit was 0,15%. In 1982, it was reduced to 0.10%. In 2003, it went to 0.08%.

I am not excusing Gordon's behavior, because he knows the rules, or he should by now. However, I am not of the belief that he is irreparably damaged, and can never turn himself around. For me, a large part of that belief comes from the way Mack turned his like around after his prison sentence.

All I care about as far as these guys are concerned is being on the field and scoring touchdowns.

These guys aren't my family or friends. I don't really care what they're doing. Gordon can smoke crack and shoot smack for all I care.

Just don't get caught.

Josh Cribbs smoked weed his whole career here...but he was smart enough to get caught, so I never cared.

Ive changed my mind and come around to the other side on this situation.

Josh Gordon is a supreme athlete, and furthermore a 23 year old that is unaware of what his actions could do to his career and life. He still hasn't finished college, and is on the verge of giving up millions upon millions if he hasn't already.

If the Cleveland Browns stand behind him, help him right the ship...it sends a better message than cutting him. If we do right by him...perhaps he returns the favor, and beyond that...it could be great when it comes to free agent time. Obviously he needs to understand that his actions are ruining his career and that he has to be given a get it together or youll be gone statement. But if we stand by him, believing that we can get the best from him...not as a player, but as a person...the positives far outweigh the negatives.

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So how's that decision to pass on Watkins working out now?.. Idiots.

Pretty good, solid starting Corner, and a possible High 1st next year..

That's just the basics, I mean I could talk about how rookie WRs rarely produce, or how Watkins and Gordon are two completely different skill sets..

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So how's that decision to pass on Watkins working out now?.. Idiots.

Pretty good, solid starting Corner, and a possible High 1st next year..

That's just the basics, I mean I could talk about how rookie WRs rarely produce, or how Watkins and Gordon are two completely different skill sets..

Don't draft WRs because they rarely produce? So just build with FAs,at WR? Okay..

Did you know that Sammy Watkins was arrested on drug charges back in May of 2012?

I seriously have to wonder if that's why the Browns passed on him. With one WR having drug issues, the last thing you want in another potential problem. He has appeared to stay clean since ..... but who knows how comfortable the Browns felt investing such a high pick if there were any concerns at all .... especially with a huge offer on the table for the pick.

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Did you know that Sammy Watkins was arrested on drug charges back in May of 2012?

I seriously have to wonder if that's why the Browns passed on him. With one WR having drug issues, the last thing you want in another potential problem. He has appeared to stay clean since ..... but who knows how comfortable the Browns felt investing such a high pick if there were any concerns at all .... especially with a huge offer on the table for the pick.

Let's see how those 1st rd WRs produce this year on their given teams,and get back to me on how they faired.

The only 1st round WR I wanted was Mike Evans, who I wouldn't have taken at 4.

And while yes, that was a deep WR draft, it isn't that last draft or oppurtunity to aquire a WR well ever have..

Losing Gordon sucks, but again, we won 4 games with him, I feel as though we can win more than that without him...

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j/c

if only he would have insisted on a blood alcohol test, that would have bought him about 45 minutes, and he would have burned off the .01 to make him legal.

oh well.

If only he had a BRAIN and called a cab or a car service.... Not a difficult concept to grasp. Not like he doesn't have the money. Problem is doesn't have the brains. See, I have zero problem with a guy smoking weed. I firmly believe it should be legal in all 50 States. I believe the Players Union should have bargained HGH testing in, for weed testing out.... it's legal in 2 States and with a prescription in 22 and DC. I'm quite sure players would be eligible for a script considering beatings they endure.
Problem is the players KNOW that is ISN'T legal in the NFL right now. So the choice is, smoke up and do something else for a living or stay clean and enjoy an NFL career. Josh Gordon has decided he'd rather smoke up and party. He knew his appeal hearing was soon and he decided calling a cab or a service was too high a price to play football anytime soon. A professional sports player has NO excuse for getting busted for a DUI. They surely can afford a cab. But it goes beyond that. Why do these numbskull players drive anywhere? Hire a service and be driven anywhere you wish in style and comfort.

Josh Gordon doesn't want to play football. He's quit the sport. If you doubt that, look at his actions. Facing an indefinite suspension, knowing he has to present himself in the best light possible to reduce his suspension, he gets busted for DUI. He might just as well call up Goodell and ask him for another year added on to his sentence. Pretty please....with sugar on top!

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OK, so Gordon clearly likes to hang out with lowlifes... Why does he have to drive them around?

I honestly have no answer for his actions. I drove for six years on a suspended license. Everyday, as though I had a good license. That was during my era of smoking weed for 15 years 24/7. Not getting caught was by virtue of my being careful because I wanted to avoid the circumstances. I drove drunk (not crazy drunk) and I drove high, but always focused on being careful. In neither state did I or would I have ever done 50mph in a 35. That's asking for it by simply not focusing on being careful.

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Guys like this need to hit rock bottom before they change.. Problem is, I don't think he has yet.. Still has money and a job.. at least till he's suspended.

I agree. He has a few more tricks up his sleeve.

The kid really doesn't have a clue. He's got major issues. MAJOR ISSUES!

He's very young; and yes, we can all talk about the dumb stuff we did when we were in our early 20's. At the same time, none of us had the opportunity of a lifetime that JG has had/has/have.

Had many of us been on the cusp of certainly receiving many MILLIONS of dollars, even though we were young, we'd certainly screw our heads on enough to do WHATEVER it took to achieve this accomplishment.

JG's actions show me time and time again that he has a serious problem, dating back to his teenage years at Baylor, then Utah. The kid loves his drugs and alcohol, and while we may have loved it too at a younger age in our lives and maybe even now, if someone were to tell us to "Stay straight for a bit and many MILLIONS of dollars will ABSOLUTELY be yours!" we surely would have done whatever it took not to screw it up. This kid is actually doing EVERYTHING possible TO screw it up!

SMH!

Unless there is something I'm unaware of, the Browns NEED To get rid of this distraction NOW! The team needs to suspend him. What a shame it would be if he's roaming the sidelines during training camp awaiting the inevitable! Every other player would just shake their heads whenever they glance at him. He is a HUGE distraction at this point, not to mention the snaps he will be taking away from his imminent replacement.

I DO NOT want to see JG in camp. I DO NOT want to see him in the Brown and Orange. Not for a long while. I want to see him arrange for a press conference, admit to his faults, and then admit himself into a LONG-TERM rehabilitation program. Get his mind right. Get his attitude right. He needs to understand what LIFE is. What exactly his actions are resulting in. What exactly the repercussions his actions HAVE HAD and are continuing to have on his life,

The worst that could happen for him would be for all of this STUPID, and just plain STUPID behavior to go under-punished by the NFL. HE NEEDS HELP. We need to let the league know that we are fully aware of JG's major issues and are 100% behind getting him whatever help he needs.

Get this kid some HELP before he REALLY does something that he will never be able to come back from. He is on a giant downward spiral. At this point, he is unknowingly making a cry for help. Trouble w/ the NFL for pot? Smoke more pot to cope. Trouble w/ the league for continuous speeding and recklessness? Be even more reckless.

Trying to defend him is useless, and as a Browns fan who would love to see him on the field, it would be shameful and a disgrace for me to say to myself, "Let him play so he can excite me on Sundays" when what the kid really needs is MAJOR PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP!

We're not about to make a playoff run this year.

There was no need to alter a major investment decision just to put a band-aid on one position.

Besides, you shouldn't be investing in a WR in the top five unless he's a once-in-a-decade type player, or you're just on the cusp of a title run.

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.09? Come on. This is no big deal. You guys crack me up with your overreactions.

Normally, I'd agree with you. But this is the continuation of a pattern he's established.

I've generally been a supporter of Gordon, but this is throwing me over the line on him.

I'm not saying I want to cut him,, he's probably going to be suspended for the year and he has a chance to clean up over that period of time. So it doesn't hurt us or cost us a dime to let it play out. you just never know.

Kinda curious as to how many of you have had a few drinks and hopped into the drivers side of your vehicle to make it home...

I know I'm guilty of doing it.. Not making excuses for the guy.. but in my opinion he needs to only do two things:

1) Stop smoking Weed
2) Get a trustworthy DD when he goes out to party or hangout

Cutting Gordon would be dumb.. Trading him however may be the best thing for the right price. Just keep him out of the AFC.

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Kinda curious as to how many of you have had a few drinks and hopped into the drivers side of your vehicle to make it home...

...while awaiting a hearing regarding your second suspension for drugs.

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We're not about to make a playoff run this year.

There was no need to alter a major investment decision just to put a band-aid on one position.

Besides, you shouldn't be investing in a WR in the top five unless he's a once-in-a-decade type player, or you're just on the cusp of a title run.

A band aid? A band aid is grabbing stupid over priced FAs at that position.This team will never go anywhere with that kind of thinking.Aren't you guys tired of having an anemic offense,
knowing the game is over at 20-10? I think it sucks and am all for good young talent to stretch the defense with.

We can all have opinions on what to do with JG. But in the end analysis the league will rule. Then the Brown's have to make a decision on how they want to handle Gordon.

At some point though Josh Gordon has to figure this out on his own. He has been already given enough lectures from Haslam and many many others.

He has to want to be sober first then get people in place to help him and support him with his struggle. "Addiction" is a serious problem faced by millions. Food, alcohol, tobacco, drugs legal or illegal all can be addictive.

Gordon will either figure it out or he will fail and be out of the game.

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Kinda curious as to how many of you have had a few drinks and hopped into the drivers side of your vehicle to make it home...

...while awaiting a hearing regarding your second suspension for drugs.

That's exactly it. Sick of when people writing this crap off man! Yeah, we prob all have done that. Few beers, drive home cause you know you're safe to drive outside if your intoxication levels suggest otherwise. Sure. But not if you're on probation. Not if you're on "timeout". Not if you're about to face the league regarding an extended suspension. How freaking stupid can one get?

You don't have the hole dug and try to go deeper. You're taking your actions to a whole new level of stupidity.

IMO - and this is just me. I am ready to move on from Josh Gordon. The Sammy Watkin pass-up is really looking like shady-business now. Let Gordon do his drugs with his thug/drug/convicted felon buddies, that's what "he" wants to do and that is clearly what "he" feels more important.

I'm ready to wave and say good bye. Maybe Oakland has a spot on their roster for another thug.

j/c

What if the story about a delayed flight is true and is the reason why he missed the test?

What if a few hours after the scheduled test time he took the test and the results were negative?

What if he is hanging out with the wrong guys but NOT smoking weed? But now he drinks instead of smokes...has about a half a beer too many and drives home.

Does he have a problem? Yes...he's a dumb donkey. Is he an addict? An addict to what? Weed? Alcohol? (.08 as a legal limit is a joke...but IS the law.)

He needs to stop driving over the speed limit...period...especially after drinking so much as a dose of NyQuil.

It is very possible that he has NOT tested positive for weed in a year AND had a half beer too many before driving home.

All this gnashing of teeth over him being some sort of druggie/addict is quite premature in my opinion.

Was there weed in the car this time? I'd think that would be reported if so.

Let me be clear here...I think he's a dumb donkey...but that's not illegal.

What if his transgressions for the past few months end up being a delayed flight, a lead foot, and 1/2 beer too many before driving home?

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He needs to stop driving over the speed limit

what if his speedometer is off?

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He needs to stop driving over the speed limit

what if his speedometer is off?

Or the cramp usually in his brain worked down to his foot for a few seconds. Could be.

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j/c

What if the story about a delayed flight is true and is the reason why he missed the test?

What if a few hours after the scheduled test time he took the test and the results were negative?

What if he is hanging out with the wrong guys but NOT smoking weed? But now he drinks instead of smokes...has about a half a beer too many and drives home.

Does he have a problem? Yes...he's a dumb donkey. Is he an addict? An addict to what? Weed? Alcohol? (.08 as a legal limit is a joke...but IS the law.)

He needs to stop driving over the speed limit...period...especially after drinking so much as a dose of NyQuil.

It is very possible that he has NOT tested positive for weed in a year AND had a half beer too many before driving home.

All this gnashing of teeth over him being some sort of druggie/addict is quite premature in my opinion.

Was there weed in the car this time? I'd think that would be reported if so.

Let me be clear here...I think he's a dumb donkey...but that's not illegal.

What if his transgressions for the past few months end up being a delayed flight, a lead foot, and 1/2 beer too many before driving home?

Yeah,I'm sure it's all just a big misunderstanding.Nothing to see here.

You got so much "what if" and theory/rhetoric in that post, I think I just had a cup of tea with Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz...

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j/c

What if the story about a delayed flight is true and is the reason why he missed the test?

What if a few hours after the scheduled test time he took the test and the results were negative?

What if he is hanging out with the wrong guys but NOT smoking weed? But now he drinks instead of smokes...has about a half a beer too many and drives home.

Does he have a problem? Yes...he's a dumb donkey. Is he an addict? An addict to what? Weed? Alcohol? (.08 as a legal limit is a joke...but IS the law.)

He needs to stop driving over the speed limit...period...especially after drinking so much as a dose of NyQuil.

It is very possible that he has NOT tested positive for weed in a year AND had a half beer too many before driving home.

All this gnashing of teeth over him being some sort of druggie/addict is quite premature in my opinion.

Was there weed in the car this time? I'd think that would be reported if so.

Let me be clear here...I think he's a dumb donkey...but that's not illegal.

What if his transgressions for the past few months end up being a delayed flight, a lead foot, and 1/2 beer too many before driving home?

Completely unrelated question... does your last name happen to start with a 'G'?

It looks like Gordon needs help. Hard to say if this will be enough to make it happen. To the outsider all of this stuff seems stupid and it's hard to explain why someone would give up millions to keep on going. How many countless addicts and alcoholics out there have given it all up? Give up their job, their family, their money, give up everything, before they are willing to get help. And others will keep going until they are dead.

Unfortunately, even with help, it can be pretty hard to "turn it off." Once you get truly addicted to stuff, it isn't easy to get past it. Your brain gets twisted on it and it a lot of self rationalization occurs. Whether you want to call it a disease or a choice, the same kinds of struggles occur in most people dealing with addictive issues.

I'm not one to say if he is an addict or not but his using is certainly creating the appearance of his life becoming unmanageable.

To compare I sure as heck don't understand a lot of things... I don't understand how people can get addicted to gambling. Is it stupid ? Sure seems that way. But it's more than that. People with gambling issues seem to have a real issue so... I'm not going to call them stupid for it. They need help.

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j/c

What if the story about a delayed flight is true and is the reason why he missed the test?

What if a few hours after the scheduled test time he took the test and the results were negative?

What if he is hanging out with the wrong guys but NOT smoking weed? But now he drinks instead of smokes...has about a half a beer too many and drives home.

Does he have a problem? Yes...he's a dumb donkey. Is he an addict? An addict to what? Weed? Alcohol? (.08 as a legal limit is a joke...but IS the law.)

He needs to stop driving over the speed limit...period...especially after drinking so much as a dose of NyQuil.

It is very possible that he has NOT tested positive for weed in a year AND had a half beer too many before driving home.

All this gnashing of teeth over him being some sort of druggie/addict is quite premature in my opinion.

Was there weed in the car this time? I'd think that would be reported if so.

Let me be clear here...I think he's a dumb donkey...but that's not illegal.

What if his transgressions for the past few months end up being a delayed flight, a lead foot, and 1/2 beer too many before driving home?

Yeah,I'm sure it's all just a big misunderstanding.Nothing to see here.

You know what they say: 'Denial always comes first.'

Even if he smokes weed every day and did fail a test. This was a half a beer too many, like he said.

He's an idiot, knowing what he was already facing, shouldn't drive after a single beer.

But the talk about him being a junkie and having to hit "rock bottom" and "straighten up his life" is hilarious.

It's weed and a few beers. Let's save the "rock bottom" discussion for guys getting busted with heroin and stuff, okay?

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j/c

if only he would have insisted on a blood alcohol test, that would have bought him about 45 minutes, and he would have burned off the .01 to make him legal.

oh well.

then the pot he was smoking would have shown up.

Some of you guys are seriously nuts about this kid. When we drafted him several national pundits (including Lombardi) said we were stupid to give up a 2nd rounder for someone with his past and predicted this would happen. He's failed 6 (?) drug tests over the past 3 years, and while awaiting a verdict on a potential year long suspension for his last failed drug test he gets nailed with a DUI.

I understand that there is no benefit in cutting him, but there is really no benefit in keeping him on the roster either........kid can''t be counted on. I would love for him to be a feel good story and grow up, but considering getting kicked out of 2 colleges, suspended in the NFL for 4 games already, and while awaiting a 1 year suspension got a DUI, I have my doubts.

So no I don't want the Browns to cut him, because there is nothing to lose in waiting on him. However, I will not be shocked if the Browns just cut ties with him and move on without the constant cloud hanging over their head with him. Frankly, I wouldn't agree with it, but I wouldn't blame either.

That's the biggest problem Top.....he isn't a "junkie." Hell if he was addicted to cocaine I would have more hope that he could turn his life around. However, this guy is just a selfish idiot who can't be relied upon to do the right thing for himself or his teammates. Addictions can be beaten, stupidity/immaturity is a can be learned, but having selfish/borderline narcissistic personality traits is really almost impossible......you are who you are at some point.

Jc

I was thinking about it. I wanted us to cut him, but honestly, I think we should give him 100 percent support like San Fran has done with aldon smith. Just force feed this guy some help. Good teams find a way to deal with there troubled players, especially if they are all-pro caliber.

If he gets suspended for indefinitely we cannot, because the NFL and NFLPA thought it would be a goo idea to not have any contact at all between the team and suspended player. Which makes a lot of sense, because -- well -- just look at Justin Blackmon's recovery.

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So how's that decision to pass on Watkins working out now?.. Idiots.

Watkins isn't coming in with a clean slate either. Also, I have the feeling that we'll have been running the ball much more anyway and the passing game will have been a lesser part of the game plan.

The team also knew about this problem before the draft and knew that he could (and probably would) be gone for part of the season - at the least.

Yeah, the talk about "hitting rock bottom" is pretty humorous considering he got a $2.3M signing bonus and made close to $1M in salary in his first two seasons combined. I don't think even he is dumb enough to have squandered that much money in 2+ years.

Well his 2014 salary likely went from $825,000 to $0. Ouch. Also if suspended indefinitely, his $10million/year contract gets pushed back a full year or more, if he ever gets it at all. He may not have hit rock bottom but it sure seems to be coming up fast.

Also, for a male of his size drinking over say 3 hours, that's about 8 beers. I realize that driving at .09 isn't the worst thing one can do but let's just call it like it is. Of course there is individual variance in how fast one metabolizes alcohol, different beer sizes and strengths etc.

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Yeah, the talk about "hitting rock bottom" is pretty humorous considering he got a $2.3M signing bonus and made close to $1M in salary in his first two seasons combined. I don't think even he is dumb enough to have squandered that much money in 2+ years.

It's not about blowing it in 2+ years. It's about how much debt he's racked up in that time. And I'd bet the answer is a lot.

When those paychecks stop coming, the nicer things go away.

I don't know what his rock bottom is, and neither does anyone else. But let's hope it's this.

A little off-topic here, but with all of the Manziel and Gordon talk lately, I've been thinking...

Say what you will about 'The Decision', but LeBron James turned out to have his head on his shoulders.

Famous at 16, and not so much of a peep off-the-court. The media burned him early on for the jerseys and the Hummer, and he learned real quick how to keep his business private and clean.

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You got so much "what if" and theory/rhetoric in that post, I think I just had a cup of tea with Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz...

Still, he asked a few good questions.. What if his questions turn out to be valid?

Y.A.W.N. I've put my views on DUI on this board before. (It's driving "under" influence in Ohio so I call it D U I . )

Much ado about what will amount to not much going forward. Be thankful no one was hurt.

Doesn't change, much!

Hey on Josh Gordon? Once a Brown, always a Brown, is how I feel today!

Hey, look at it this way, He was already suspended pending however long that takes anyways. He's not gonna get paid for time the league won't let him play.

NO sense the Browns piling on this guy and saying, " be somebody you're not".

I don't think, (scratch that,) I wouldn't bet, Evel Kinevel ever went 12 months straight without getting into some kind of trouble.

But he sure was heck and Jesus on a motorcycle. (As Little Bill Taggert might say.)

I mean really, it's a non-story to me.

Don't drink and drive! Cause you're gonna get pulled over! And it's gonna cost you $6000, when it's said and done! And somebody could get Killed!!! And lots of people have been killed.

But lot's of great people in history have done things. But Hey, the government Law ain't been the most righteous thing in the world throughout the history of time. ( I said "most" righteous, "most" !, folks, don't read that as encouraging law breaking, I'm saying the govt ain't potentate, it's just a stupid dumb() gov't with the failings of beaurocracy.

See! Non-story! IN other news, take the Steelers and the points in game 1, fast approaching. Where's the hope Haslem?
(growl: emoticon)

Evel Kineval?

Lol what?

It's THROW LONG, man. Last week, he compared a balanced football team to Danny DeVito.

Just ride the wave.

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You got so much "what if" and theory/rhetoric in that post, I think I just had a cup of tea with Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz...

No more "what ifs" in WSU Willie's post than speculation in yours. You don't know anything about Gordon's current issue with the NFL, and going over the speed limit with .09 in your blood doesn't make you an addict. It doesn't even make you stupid, despite the current NFL issue he's having. All of this righteous indignation, moralizing, and impromptu IQ testing is making me nauseous.

Human, all too human.

Gordon will be out for a year and traded for a sixth round pick if he stays sober and is reinstated. My guess is he will find more trouble for himself while he is out.

I'm not religious, but I sure wish Josh would find Jesus! The kid needs some direction other than downward spiral!

Again, I fail to see how it's an issue of morals. It's an issue of intelligence, and, yes, this matter does lead to rightful questioning of it.

Josh Gordon works for a company (and parent company) that have gone out of their way to tell players 'If you've had one too many, we will pay for any car service you need.'

To not take advantage of that is stupid. Especially in the position he's in.

And as long as we're discussing common sense, most of us have had a few too many pops and taken the risk. I'm sure the smarter ones don't go 50 in a 35. I know when I've been on the border, I'm all turn signals and hands on ten and two.

And as I've said, this isn't, 'whoops, Josh made a mistake'. This is like nine mistakes. And there has been no signs of corrective behavior.

You make it sound like the board is blowing it's top for no reason, but the truth of the matter is that it's highly likely the guy won't be playing football for a year or more.

That's kind of serious, and, yes, it shows a lot of lapses in judgement.

j/c

As a Browns fan, I'm hoping there is some credibility to the rumor that Josh simply missed a drug test due to a delayed flight and not that he actually failed one.

As a Browns fan, I'm hoping the suspension is a short one due to those circumstances and things aren't as bad as they appear on the surface.

As a Browns fan, those are the type of things I can only hope for, because since our return, whatever can go wrong will.

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I'm not religious, but I sure wish Josh would find Jesus! The kid needs some direction other than downward spiral!

True, but drugs and abuse is like having trouble in the legal system. Once you get caught in the suck, it's hard to pull out. There isn't much wiggle room. Each mistake takes you deeper and deeper.

JC.

Pathetic.Typical. Not shocked. Next.

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j/c

What if the story about a delayed flight is true and is the reason why he missed the test?

What if a few hours after the scheduled test time he took the test and the results were negative?

Let me be clear here...I think he's a dumb donkey...but that's not illegal.

What if his transgressions for the past few months end up being a delayed flight, a lead foot, and 1/2 beer too many before driving home?

This is the same story that I am seeing more of- was in Europe on vacation, summoned to take a random test, asked the NFL to do it in Europe, nobody was credentialed by the NFL to take the test, booked a flight back to the states, the plane was delayed, MISSED the test, took it within 24 hours of the missed test, passed the test. But since it was a MISSED test its a FAILED test. One would think cooler heads would prevail and this whole thing really is a non-issue.

its just crappy timing with the DUI, I don't know what the punishment would be for someone not in the tier 3, but this is the thing that really screws the appeals up. He should have been acting like a saint, waiting for this appeal to blow over.

All in all, I don't think his behavior is as bad as the people are making it out (assuming the failed test was really a missed test secondary to a logistical problem) and I don't agree with cutting him. Seems like people are over-reacting in typical brown fashion.

He's just not the sharpest bulb on the tree, but he is young and will mature. It would be nice to see him do it in a browns uniform. Call me the eternal optimist, but I just don't see this lengthy suspension, even with this latest DUI (which at the time of his appeals will still be a legal matter).

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You got so much "what if" and theory/rhetoric in that post, I think I just had a cup of tea with Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz...

No more "what ifs" in WSU Willie's post than speculation in yours. You don't know anything about Gordon's current issue with the NFL, and going over the speed limit with .09 in your blood doesn't make you an addict. It doesn't even make you stupid, despite the current NFL issue he's having. All of this righteous indignation, moralizing, and impromptu IQ testing is making me nauseous.

Human, all too human.

I think you have a complete lack of perspective on top of an overwhelming bias in favor of JG because he's uber talented and plays for the Browns. If you don't think JG is being incredibly stupid and short-sighted for his recent transgressions, I don't know what to tell you. Well, I'd tell you that you are biased and lack perspective.

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No more "what ifs" in WSU Willie's post than speculation in yours. You don't know anything about Gordon's current issue with the NFL, and going over the speed limit with .09 in your blood doesn't make you an addict. It doesn't even make you stupid, despite the current NFL issue he's having. All of this righteous indignation, moralizing, and impromptu IQ testing is making me nauseous.

Human, all too human.

If you're already in hot water - you tread carefully. To me, this is common sense. When you fail to apprehend and demonstrate common sense - you become stupid in my eyes. If he's out until 3am, then he should have just arranged transportation with the bundles of money he has, but did he?

We'll just need to agree to disagree here, but soaking in his past and etc - I'm borderline, if not tipped over the edge, that he's just a downward spiral in the making.

Can some facts surface that would ease my point of view and current opinion, well sure... I don't see them facts. Yet anyway...

Cleveland Browns need to give Josh Gordon this choice: Rehab or release -- Terry Pluto

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/07/cleveland_browns_need_to_give.html

Well, Ballpeen, this development re-defines "He's a bust." Dumb and dumber.

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I think you have a complete lack of perspective on top of an overwhelming bias in favor of JG because he's uber talented and plays for the Browns. If you don't think JG is being incredibly stupid and short-sighted for his recent transgressions, I don't know what to tell you. Well, I'd tell you that you are biased and lack perspective.

I lack perspective? Back to the OP for you. This time pay attention to all of the "Cut him" posts (and variations on that theme). If the failed drug test really does turn out to be a series of unfortunate events, then the "Cut him" response is essentially based on a .09 DUI. Talk about a skewed perspective.

This being said, I don't know how Gordon's appeal will turn out, so I'll try to restrain my ardent Josh Gordon fanaticism for now. But please don't fool yourself into believing that the majority of posters on this thread have a proper and reasonable perspective while mine is distorted.

In the end, the only perspective that matters is Gordon's employer's. I guess we will see what happens. I have to think patience is running a bit thin now...

I agree with Terry Pluto. Either Gordon agrees to rehab or he gets released! This is more than about football, Gordon has a life threating problem and needs help. I hope he agrees to get it.

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I agree with Terry Pluto. Either Gordon agrees to rehab or he gets released! This is more than about football, Gordon has a life threating problem and needs help. I hope he agrees to get it.

There's no indication that he has a life threatening problem. He has a career threatening problem due to making idiotic choices.

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Cleveland Browns need to give Josh Gordon this choice: Rehab or release -- Terry Pluto

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/07/cleveland_browns_need_to_give.html

I disagree.
It'll hurt him more to NOT release him. Make him sit - under contract, suspended, and not getting paid. Unable to sign with another team. Football purgatory.
As long as he is suspended, he doesn't count against our roster, so it costs us nothing. Nobody will change their ways until it hurts more to stay the same than it does to change... he needs consequences he will feel deeply.

As for rehab.... we can send him, but unless he sees the need to change, it won't have any effect. I'm not saying that to say that we shouldn't do it, because it should still be done. I'm just saying that the chances of it having the desired affect are slim - as in, less than 10%.

It's got to hurt if it's to heal.

Make it hurt.

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Gordon has a life threating problem and needs help.

I rest my case.

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Gordon will be out for a year and traded for a sixth round pick if he stays sober and is reinstated. My guess is he will find more trouble for himself while he is out.

If he stays sober, he'll be here after any suspension, You don't give up a guy with that talent for a 6th, 5th, 4th, 3th or 2nd round. You may give him up for ALL of that or a 1st rounder. IF HE"S SOBER..

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You don't give up a guy with that talent for a 6th, 5th, 4th, 3th or 2nd round.

Happens all the time in the NFL.

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You don't give up a guy with that talent for a 6th, 5th, 4th, 3th or 2nd round.

Happens all the time in the NFL.

But when does it work out?

I wouldn't trade or cut the guy right now.

If we could get a second, then, yeah, sure, but we've got him on the cheap. Just wait and see.

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Cleveland Browns need to give Josh Gordon this choice: Rehab or release -- Terry Pluto

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/07/cleveland_browns_need_to_give.html

Pluto is an idiot.

You still have his rights. The team can suspend him, regardless of what the NFL does. In fact, I would say that they should do so. Suspend him for the entire 2014 season. Take the punishment out of the hands of the NFL and make that determination on their own (provided the NFL lets the Browns punishment stand on its own without bringing down their own). That way, the NFL saves face of a bad situation, the Browns are able to maintain a bit of self-control over the situation and keep him "in the family" and under contract (adding a year due to suspension).

If the NFLPA files suit against the team, then the team revokes the punishment and lets the NFL commish impose it.

Gordon has screwed up his career already. If the Browns can reclaim any part of him or his career, they should do so. They should be able to get it on the cheap at this point.

J/C…

I'll do my part, as a Browns fan, and tweet Gordon the name and number of Kosar's attorney that got him out of his recent DUI fiasco.

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I don't know how Gordon's appeal will turn out

Sure you do.

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You don't give up a guy with that talent for a 6th, 5th, 4th, 3th or 2nd round.

Happens all the time in the NFL.

Did you forget the part about him getting sober? I guess so. Drunk or drugged, he's not worth anything. Sober, he's too good to give up for cheap.

If you wanna quote me, fine, but do it correctly.

NOBODY and I mean nobody dumps a guy on the cheap when he's corrected his issues.

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I think you have a complete lack of perspective on top of an overwhelming bias in favor of JG because he's uber talented and plays for the Browns. If you don't think JG is being incredibly stupid and short-sighted for his recent transgressions, I don't know what to tell you. Well, I'd tell you that you are biased and lack perspective.

I lack perspective? Back to the OP for you. This time pay attention to all of the "Cut him" posts (and variations on that theme). If the failed drug test really does turn out to be a series of unfortunate events, then the "Cut him" response is essentially based on a .09 DUI. Talk about a skewed perspective.

This being said, I don't know how Gordon's appeal will turn out, so I'll try to restrain my ardent Josh Gordon fanaticism for now. But please don't fool yourself into believing that the majority of posters on this thread have a proper and reasonable perspective while mine is distorted.

The "cut him" response is based upon a pattern of behavior that he's selfish and unreliable. He reflects poorly on the Browns and the NFL. How many colleges did he get kicked out of for failing drug tests? How many violations of the substance abuse policy is this while in the NFL? I don't think we should cut the guy but only because it is in the Browns' best interest to hold onto his contractual rights in case he does turn it around.

He has the ability to be the best receiver in the NFL and apparently doesn't even have to work all that hard at it. He's seriously jeopardizing a $10million/year career because he can't lay off the weed and purple drank, and can't arrange a ride or call a cab when he's drinking. You don't think he is stupid-- agree to disagree.

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Did you forget the part about him getting sober? I guess so. Drunk or drugged, he's not worth anything. Sober, he's too good to give up for cheap.

Is JG an alcoholic for blowing a .09? Does he actually have a documented drinking problem? I have no idea, but to suggest that he "needs to get sober" implies he has an alcohol problem. I think it's his stupidity that needs rehabbed.

Can stupidity be rehabbed?

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How many colleges did he get kicked out of for failing drug tests?

If he entered the league at Stage 1 then his college past carried over to the NFL and he has been punished for that prior behavior. If he entered the league and was not put in Stage 1, then his college past means nothing.

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How many violations of the substance abuse policy is this while in the NFL?

That we know of? One...sort of...either he drank the purple crap or some cough syrup. My guess is the purple drank. The punishment for that violation was odd.

You just proved my point as well as that of Mantis - he hasn't had ANY known violations of the substance abuse policy since last year (purple drank).

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You don't think he is stupid-- agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board thinks JG is stupid for putting himself in these situations. Who are you agreeing to disagree with regarding whether JG is stupid?

A delayed flight (possibly and provable), a lead foot (oh the horror), and half a beer too many (.09? Really?)...and we need to send him to rehab? That's nuts...rehab what? Stupidity?

FYI: I don't believe that JG is a saint. My guess is he's still smoking weed. However, I have no info that would suggest he has a drinking problem or is addicted to weed - if that's even possible. He might be a crack head. The point is that we don't know. Right now, I know he's a dumb donkey for putting himself in these situations - and I've said that numerous times.

What if he's just a dumb donkey?

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Did you forget the part about him getting sober? I guess so. Drunk or drugged, he's not worth anything. Sober, he's too good to give up for cheap.

Is JG an alcoholic for blowing a .09? Does he actually have a documented drinking problem? I have no idea, but to suggest that he "needs to get sober" implies he has an alcohol problem. I think it's his stupidity that needs rehabbed.

Can stupidity be rehabbed?

I don't know about that. What I do know is this. If he cleans up his act (and it's a huge IF) he's worth more than giving him away on the cheap.

If I'm the Browns, I do whatever I can to get him professional help. I mean like Dez-Bryant-Babysitting help after he's done a stint in the Betty Ford clinic.

If he can turn it around like Chris Carter (an admitted alcohol and coke addict) did, it would be an overwhelming success story for the Browns and JG.

I just don't think you give up on him yet before exhausting all resources to help the kid.

The worst thing the Browns can do right now is nothing. Get him help before the suspension is handed down because when that kicks in, he's not supposed to be in contact with the team.

If they don't, there will someday be some sad 30-for-30 story about what could have been with JG....

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Him "keeping his job" isn't exactly that... He doesn't get paid for the time he is suspended. Doesn't do us much good to cut him.

maybe it would send johnny manziel a message. he is next for this crap.

Truly remarkable that you could somehow find fault with Johnny Manziel in Josh Gordons idiocy. Remind me again, has Manziel ever failed a drug test? Did he have any REAL trouble at Texas A&M? Has he veer been arrested?

Ridiculous.

Re: Josh Gordon. No reason to cut him, it would be stupid to cut him given all the facts. He wasn't exactly plastered, he was just slightly over the limit. I'm not trying to minimize his idiocy, but I've probably been in my car slightly over the limit as well.

The things that concern me. Why is he even in North Carolina? Why did a known felon bail him out of jail?

I mean we've known for some time know, Josh Gordon isn't a very smart young man, I mean it just is what it is. The facts is, he is at this point still an asset that is worth something. If he serves his suspension, I am sure some team would give us something for him. There is nothing we can do but wait it out at this point.

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Pluto is an idiot.

One of the few sentences that holds true even when taken out of context.

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How many colleges did he get kicked out of for failing drug tests?

If he entered the league at Stage 1 then his college past carried over to the NFL and he has been punished for that prior behavior. If he entered the league and was not put in Stage 1, then his college past means nothing.

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How many violations of the substance abuse policy is this while in the NFL?

That we know of? One...sort of...either he drank the purple crap or some cough syrup. My guess is the purple drank. The punishment for that violation was odd.

You just proved my point as well as that of Mantis - he hasn't had ANY known violations of the substance abuse policy since last year (purple drank).

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You don't think he is stupid-- agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board thinks JG is stupid for putting himself in these situations. Who are you agreeing to disagree with regarding whether JG is stupid?

A delayed flight (possibly and provable), a lead foot (oh the horror), and half a beer too many (.09? Really?)...and we need to send him to rehab? That's nuts...rehab what? Stupidity?

FYI: I don't believe that JG is a saint. My guess is he's still smoking weed. However, I have no info that would suggest he has a drinking problem or is addicted to weed - if that's even possible. He might be a crack head. The point is that we don't know. Right now, I know he's a dumb donkey for putting himself in these situations - and I've said that numerous times.

What if he's just a dumb donkey?

Failed college tests don't carry over to the NFL and the only way he could have gotten suspended last year was multiple violations of the policy. That's on top of the most recent failed (missed?) test and DUI... which is also a violation of the same policy even though it's not a failed drug test.

Mantis specifically said that his DUI/speeding/drug issues with the NFL doesn't make him stupid. That was what my 'agree to disagree' comment was in reference to, but that seems like a rather small point...

To me the 'delayed flight' story sounds like a bad excuse and drug testing procedures for athletes that I know of aren't that draconian. If that truly happened then he should win his appeal but I'm not going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt in the meantime. I don't think he deserves it.

That's not even getting into the DUI thing. You would think that with all the drug testing issues he's already having, he would be on his best behavior. You would think.

JC...

What will a year, or more, suspension do to his skills?

He obviously can't keep himself clean, so a year out of football is not going to do anything to help that, and most likely end up letting himself go during that time off.

My guess is that his career is all but done, someone may take a chance on him, but he will never live up to last year's performance, when, if, he returns.

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To me the 'delayed flight' story sounds like a bad excuse and drug testing procedures for athletes that I know of aren't that draconian. If that truly happened then he should win his appeal.....

I think the excuse is quite plausible. Its a random test, so its not like he's given the heads up, testing in 2 weeks notice- clean up your act heads up.... It would defeat the idea of a random test.
This entire situation should be easy to prove...... When was he notified, where was he at, did he contact the office to change locations of the test, there should be receipts for the flight and easy to prove the flight was late..... IF all this is true, the failed/missed test is a non-story.

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To me the 'delayed flight' story sounds like a bad excuse and drug testing procedures for athletes that I know of aren't that draconian. If that truly happened then he should win his appeal.....

I think the excuse is quite plausible. Its a random test, so its not like he's given the heads up, testing in 2 weeks notice- clean up your act heads up.... It would defeat the idea of a random test.
This entire situation should be easy to prove...... When was he notified, where was he at, did he contact the office to change locations of the test, there should be receipts for the flight and easy to prove the flight was late..... IF all this is true, the failed/missed test is a non-story.

Where did that story come from anyway? Just curious-- I haven't heard of it outside of this message board. ESPN reported it a while back as a failed test from marijuana... http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...long-suspension

They are usually reliable with stuff like this, but it wouldn't be the first time they were wrong about something. We'll find out more when he has his hearing with the NFL at the end of the month.

I have a feeling that Josh has played in his last NFL game.

Not a chance in the world he stops smoking weed or drinking and driving.

I think Gordon and Manziel should team up and see if buying from the same dealer can lead to quantity discounts.

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I think Gordon and Manziel should team up and see if buying from the same dealer can lead to quantity discounts.

Chris Perez thinks they need to go to the APL and rescue an alias and alibi.

Gordon doesn't need "help" or rehab. Gordon needs to grow a brain. He's not addicted to anything except stupidity and willfulness. He thinks because he has talent he can do anything he likes. Nothing is forcing him to smoke weed or drive after drinking. He WANTS to do those things because he really doesn't give a damn about his NFL career. It's his CHOICE. It's not like if he put down the bong he'd go through the DT's. The only way this kid will ever stay out of trouble is if one day he DECIDES to do so. Makes up his mind that football is important to him. As it stands now, football isn't on his mind. He just doesn't care.... Rehab isn't going to make him care. Isn't going to make his career important to him. That comes from within, and he doesn't have that in him.

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Gordon doesn't need "help" or rehab. Gordon needs to grow a brain. He's not addicted to anything except stupidity and willfulness. He thinks because he has talent he can do anything he likes. Nothing is forcing him to smoke weed or drive after drinking. He WANTS to do those things because he really doesn't give a damn about his NFL career. It's his CHOICE. It's not like if he put down the bong he'd go through the DT's. The only way this kid will ever stay out of trouble is if one day he DECIDES to do so. Makes up his mind that football is important to him. As it stands now, football isn't on his mind. He just doesn't care.... Rehab isn't going to make him care. Isn't going to make his career important to him. That comes from within, and he doesn't have that in him.

Ex-Brown Jackson says Gordon 'needs help'

Former Cleveland Browns team captain D'Qwell Jackson said he tried multiple occasions to help troubled wide receiver Josh Gordon.........

Two other people who have worked closely with Gordon told ESPN's Ed Werder that he has issues with substance abuse dating back to high school and have urged him to seek professional assistance.

Jackson said he plans to reach out to Gordon again soon, but he is not sure Gordon would take his assistance.

"At this point, calling the cellphone is not going to work," Jackson said. "You have to fly out to him. You have to fly out to wherever he is, take him to dinner and pick his brain to see what's important to him."

Read more: http://www.wmtw.com/sports/Ex-Brown-Jackson-says-Gordon-needs-help/26825636#ixzz36oYYUWIp

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Gordon doesn't need "help" or rehab. Gordon needs to grow a brain. He's not addicted to anything except stupidity and willfulness. He thinks because he has talent he can do anything he likes. Nothing is forcing him to smoke weed or drive after drinking. He WANTS to do those things because he really doesn't give a damn about his NFL career. It's his CHOICE. It's not like if he put down the bong he'd go through the DT's. The only way this kid will ever stay out of trouble is if one day he DECIDES to do so. Makes up his mind that football is important to him. As it stands now, football isn't on his mind. He just doesn't care.... Rehab isn't going to make him care. Isn't going to make his career important to him. That comes from within, and he doesn't have that in him.

Amen, & Pass the Ammunition.

That is the beginning, middle, and end of the issue right there.

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Gordon doesn't need "help" or rehab. Gordon needs to grow a brain. He's not addicted to anything except stupidity and willfulness. He thinks because he has talent he can do anything he likes. Nothing is forcing him to smoke weed or drive after drinking. He WANTS to do those things because he really doesn't give a damn about his NFL career. It's his CHOICE. It's not like if he put down the bong he'd go through the DT's. The only way this kid will ever stay out of trouble is if one day he DECIDES to do so. Makes up his mind that football is important to him. As it stands now, football isn't on his mind. He just doesn't care.... Rehab isn't going to make him care. Isn't going to make his career important to him. That comes from within, and he doesn't have that in him.

Amen, & Pass the Ammunition.

That is the beginning, middle, and end of the issue right there.

sooo. you and spirit know him better than Jackson and Two other people who have worked closely with Gordon told ESPN's Ed Werder that he has issues with substance abuse dating back to high school and have urged him to seek professional assistance?

thanks for the input but I think people who know him have a better idea of what is going on. jmo.

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Maybe time to try to shop the kid. He obviously just doesn't get it, nor is willing to try to get it. His priorities are clear and football doesn't seem to be amongst the top of them. He's learned seemingly nothing.

Shop him? For what a box of Tagalongs or Do-Si-Dos? That's about the only offer a GM with half of his wits is going to make to us. He's done. We're screwed. Another draft pick that blew up in our faces. And it goes on....

He has all of the earmarks of an alcoholic and/or drug addict. You cannot help a drunk or doper get sober if they don't want to do it. Until he says, and firmly believes, "I am powerless over drugs and alcohol and my life is unmanageable," there is nothing anyone can do to help him. And even then, the success rate for continued sobriety is roughly 2%.

I've been there done that. I never lost a multi-million dollar NFL career but I sure drank a lot of stuff away. No one could tell me jack. Until I was done, I wasn't done.

And from the codependency handbook, "You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. You can't Cure it."

But for the Grace of God go I.....

Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

He was pulled over in PJ Hairstons rental...

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He has all of the earmarks of an alcoholic and/or drug addict. You cannot help a drunk or doper get sober if they don't want to do it. Until he says, and firmly believes, "I am powerless over drugs and alcohol and my life is unmanageable," there is nothing anyone can do to help him. And even then, the success rate for continued sobriety is roughly 2%.

I've been there done that. I never lost a multi-million dollar NFL career but I sure drank a lot of stuff away. No one could tell me jack. Until I was done, I wasn't done.

And from the codependency handbook, "You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. You can't Cure it."

But for the Grace of God go I.....

Bunch of people sitting in a room taking about drugs and drinking,made me want to head to the nearest bar,have a drink,then get stoned....those groups are like going to a funeral.Somber and depressing as hell...

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He was pulled over in PJ Hairstons rental...

I don't care.That flashy car isn't doing him any favors..."Oh look,there goes Josh,let's follow him."

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He was pulled over in PJ Hairstons rental...

I don't care.That flashy car isn't doing him any favors..."Oh look,there goes Josh,let's follow him."

No kidding. Some people are dumb. The cops main mission after 10pm is to pull over violations, with the probability the person has had something to drink.

The cops don't really care about a burnt out tail light. They aren't going to pull you over for that during the morning rush. If you are speeding by 15 at 3AM, you're an idiot. You are getting pulled over for nearly any violation....just to see. I am sure the occasional "milk man" or Coke Route driver gets pulled over. Some of these people have to be to work at 4, and the cop probably gives them a friendly warning. Cops are "working stiffs" just like the man or woman trying to get to their bread truck.

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The A.M.A. and the Federal government classify substance addiction as a disease.

Is this the same Federal Government that classifies Marijuana as being equally as dangerous as Heroin? MORE dangerous than Cocaine? They classify it as a disease yet lock up addicts. That's like locking up a cancer patient for being sick.... The Feds are locked in to a no win "War on Drugs" and use that as an excuse for their misdeeds. It's a sickness when it suits them, and a crime when it suits them.

Fact is the NFL players Union F'd up during the last CBA negotiation. They should have bargained HGH testing in place of Marijuana testing. Hell, it's legal in 2 States and medicinally in 22 and DC. Unfortunately, the league still tests for it and every player KNOWS that. So they have a CHOICE. Smoke weed and sell women's shoes, or not smoke weed and play in the NFL. Josh Gordon has made his choice. He prefers getting stoned to playing football.

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Alright. He's "addicted" to Marijuana. Oh no. Weed is worse that heroin! Oh woe is Gordon. Poor kid. He's doing his best but the evil weed is FORCING him to smoke it. *snicker* And that liquor forced him to get behind the wheel. I call BS.

it is worse than heroin. because it is so widespread. the booze? lmao did you look at the mug shot? .009 didn't do that to his eyes. guy was high as a kite. good thing they didn't do a blood test on him.

force him into rehab? not only do the browns have the moral obligation to do it but with what they invested with him I think they have the legal right to do it. and while he is in there should give him a little snip so he cant have any little potheads running around to boot.

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it is worse than heroin. because it is so widespread.

Actually heroin is very widespread. Cheaper and much purer than in the past. And there is no comparison in the two.

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force him into rehab? not only do the browns have the moral obligation to do it but with what they invested with him I think they have the legal right to do it.

I actually wish they did but I doubt they do,

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and while he is in there should give him a little snip so he cant have any little potheads running around to boot.

10,000 comedians out of work and you're here trying to be funny?

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Actually heroin is very widespread. Cheaper and much purer than in the past. And there is no comparison in the two.

well might as well make it legal and tax it then. same excuse potheads use for pot. everyone does it so......

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Actually heroin is very widespread. Cheaper and much purer than in the past. And there is no comparison in the two.

well might as well make it legal and tax it then. same excuse potheads use for pot. everyone does it so......

One is highly physically addictive which leads to high crime and violence.

The other is not physically addictive and does not lead to higher crime and violence.

You are a funny man.

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highly physically addictive

just what is going on with Gordon.

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give him a little snip so he cant have any little potheads running around to boot.

No way...one of those little potheads may just grow up to be determined to prove that he has better talent than his father and keeps with the rules.

Josh is making decisions that aren't popular with a lot of people... but they are his decisions and he will have to deal with the result of them...

I will not judge Josh... and I sure in hell would never agree with snipping a mans chance to have a family just because of a few decisions he made as a young and growing person..

I'm very grateful for my children who made me a better person.

Anybody can agree....that was a ignorant commet he made.

Most everything he says is.

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Most everything he says is.

True enough......you sure as hell can't take him for his word.

The Word ends up far from reality.

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Most everything he says is.

True enough......you sure as hell can't take him for his word.

The Word ends up far from reality.

Huh? What did I say?

Oh wait! You weren't talking about me.

Continue on then...

J/C

yea all you potheads. its so great every country in the world make it legal and encourages people to use it lmao. it the makes you live longer and just makes you better all the way around. lmao all the studies that it is addictive are the nasty usa government trying to control the people because they just want to screw with you.

josh needs help. forced or voluntary he needs help.

I'd rather read THROW LONG try to compare Josh Gordon to Evel Knievel to this nonsense.

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I'd rather read THROW LONG try to compare Josh Gordon to Evel Knievel to this nonsense.

what? don't think josh needs help. forced or voluntary he needs help?

or is it the rest?

forced will not work... he hss to make the decison himslef to quit, without that from him he will never quit.

I quit coke, pot and cigarettes all cold turkey (not at the same time), when I decided I needed to, cigarettes where the hardest but I still flashback to shooting coke when I have blood taken from me. Right before they loosen that band I hear the voice in my head say "dump it".

I digress, bottom line is he needs the want to if he is going to.

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I quit coke, pot and cigarettes all cold turkey (not at the same time), when I decided I needed to

so what made you need to? job? woman? money? to do this you have to make the alternative worse than what he has now. how do you do that. any way you look at it is forced.

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I quit coke, pot and cigarettes all cold turkey (not at the same time), when I decided I needed to

so what made you need to? job? woman? money? to do this you have to make the alternative worse than what he has now. how do you do that. any way you look at it is forced.

Yep,the only way people change is through coercion.There is a button for him in his life,that if pushed will make him say.."whoa,ok that's enough of that." What button that is,only he knows,but we all have one.

Fantastic. I come back to find pblack18707 derailing another thread with his insane marijuana hate. pblack18707 makes Josh Gordon look like a genius.

Back to the thread topic. While I agree with WSU Willie in sentiment, I would prefer to flip the equation and say that Josh might very well be an addict (although I can only say for certain he is a drug user), but he is not stupid. Did you all forget that drugs lower your inhibitions? Judging a person's decision-making when they are drugged is as fair as insisting the cripple kid run the 4 minute mile in gym class, and then ripping the kid to shreds verbally for not being able to do it. That's what many of you are doing to Gordon.

Now the response to this will be something like "Well how smart can he be to keep doing drugs?" To which I will rejoin that we are back to Gordon being a drug user, and being a drug user doesn't make one stupid. But, of course, this is just my reasonable opinion. I'm getting the sense, however, that many of you disagree, hence the posts questioning Gordon's intelligence. And the irony in all of this is that pblack18707 isn't actually as crazy as I, or some of you, think he is because it is his posts that most explicitly state what is merely implied in all of yours; i.e. drug users are stupid people.

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Fantastic. I come back to find pblack18707 derailing another thread

sorry I just cant see how you can talk about a pothead that is soon not going to be allowed to play in the nfl without talking about pot.

JC

Is it me, or did ClevelandBrowns.com just take Gordon's Top 100 video off their website? Interesting...

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JC

Is it me, or did ClevelandBrowns.com just take Gordon's Top 100 video off their website? Interesting...

Yeah, I noticed that too. They are distancing themselves from him fast. I'd lay it at 4 to 1 odds in favor that Gordon's career is over. The NFL is getting tired of pothead athletes along with all the other things they end up doing hurting their reputation as role models for youth.

Parents are already worried about their kids playing football due to concussions. If they don't do something to clean up their image soon there will be even more parents saying no to football due to the violence of the sport and growing amount of drug abuse whether from steroids, pot, alcohol abuse, or pain killer abuse and addiction. There are a growing amount of schools considering eliminating football all together.

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yea but you didn't answer the question. what made you stop? believe it or not I was blissfully unaware of pot and drugs 2 month ago. more to it what made you start?

You should follow along better. The person who replied was just commenting on your reply, but was not the person who you originally replied to.

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believe it or not I was blissfully unaware of pot and drugs 2 month ago.

That explains a lot.

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yea but you didn't answer the question. what made you stop? believe it or not I was blissfully unaware of pot and drugs 2 month ago. more to it what made you start?

You should follow along better. The person who replied was just commenting on your reply, but was not the person who you originally replied to.

oops lol

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No kidding. Some people are dumb. The cops main mission after 10pm is to pull over violations, with the probability the person has had something to drink.

The cops don't really care about a burnt out tail light. They aren't going to pull you over for that during the morning rush. If you are speeding by 15 at 3AM, you're an idiot. You are getting pulled over for nearly any violation....just to see. I am sure the occasional "milk man" or Coke Route driver gets pulled over. Some of these people have to be to work at 4, and the cop probably gives them a friendly warning. Cops are "working stiffs" just like the man or woman trying to get to their bread truck.

I totally agree. Under different circumstances I would be defending Gordon.. I'm familiar with the road where Gordon got picked up, with no traffic, it's VERY EASY to go 50 on that road.. and it's reported that he blew a .09, which is barely over the legal limit... That's like 2 or 3 beers.... Like I said, under different circumstances I would chalk this up to a mistake that wasn't too big of a deal...

But with Gordon's history and his pending suspension and all of his other problems, he just can't cut it that close... If this happened to a guy with an otherwise clean record, I'd say it was no big deal...

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sooo. you and spirit know him better than Jackson and Two other people who have worked closely with Gordon told ESPN's Ed Werder that he has issues with substance abuse dating back to high school and have urged him to seek professional assistance?

thanks for the input but I think people who know him have a better idea of what is going on. jmo. ]

OK Pblack I will play your game with you. People who know him better think he is a good kid with some real personal issues. He is quiet, and polite in public, he works hard, and cares about his teamates personal lives off the field. However he self destructs when left alone, or when he is away from the team. So people who know him better know he is a good guy who has some deep unresolved issues that he has to deal with on his own. He may learn how to deal with them, or he may blow his NFL career before he learns how to deal with them, BUT those that know him are only worried about him as a person, not him as a NFL player.

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sooo. you and spirit know him better than Jackson and Two other people who have worked closely with Gordon told ESPN's Ed Werder that he has issues with substance abuse dating back to high school and have urged him to seek professional assistance?

thanks for the input but I think people who know him have a better idea of what is going on. jmo. ]

OK Pblack I will play your game with you. People who know him better think he is a good kid with some real personal issues. He is quiet, and polite in public, he works hard, and cares about his teamates personal lives off the field. However he self destructs when left alone, or when he is away from the team. So people who know him better know he is a good guy who has some deep unresolved issues that he has to deal with on his own. He may learn how to deal with them, or he may blow his NFL career before he learns how to deal with them, BUT those that know him are only worried about him as a person, not him as a NFL player.

I also think that he needs to find new friends that hopefully he isn't referred to by Greg Little.

http://deadspin.com/meet-the-felon-who-paid-josh-gordons-bond-1600863395

"Hairston wasn't the only UNC athlete who Thomas hung around. WRAL kept a running list of players linked to him via social media or public records, which included Leslie McDonald, John Henson, Dexter Strickland, Harrison Barnes, and Greg Little. "

I agree 100 percent. He does need new friends

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I quit coke, pot and cigarettes all cold turkey (not at the same time), when I decided I needed to

so what made you need to? job? woman? money? to do this you have to make the alternative worse than what he has now. how do you do that. any way you look at it is forced.

My reasons are my own, just like they would be for any person. the reasons to change are not as important as the decision one has to make to change.

Without the commitment by that individual no change will be perfected no matter how much one tries to force the issue on that person.

No amount of coercion, threats or pleading can make that person change until they hit on the one drivng force, that epiphany , that makes them want to change.

What is Gordon's hot button? only he knows and he will not know until he finds it

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I agree 100 percent. He does need new friends

Easier said then done. The kind of people we'd like him to hang with probably don't want to hang with him.

Birds of a feather flock together. His hanging with scumbag types is a pretty good indicator he is a scumbag type.

jc

Listening to Fox Sports they believe the DUI will be dropped down to a reckless driving and will be a non-issue. One thing I thought interesting is they mentioned on the show was how can they punish Josh for DUI when they haven't done anything to Irsay?

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

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I agree 100 percent. He does need new friends

Easier said then done. The kind of people we'd like him to hang with probably don't want to hang with him.

Birds of a feather flock together. His hanging with scumbag types is a pretty good indicator he is a scumbag type.

This statement is not even remotely close to having any truth to it.
I'll just leave it at that.

He has to find himself, but the only way that happens is that he has to figure out that the path he is on is not the right one. Unfortunately, he currently like this path.

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

Comments about Josh Gordon aside, Cris Carter is THE WORST personality on ESPN. And that is saying a lot cause there are some bad ones.

So what he does feel/say about anyone is completely irrelevant to me and lacks substance. Maybe he'll back track on this comment like he has done several times before, most notably his asinine comment about Calvin Johnson not being a top 5 WR a couple years back.

Jc

Honestly. Pot should be legal. That being said, it is illegal, and even if it was legal, the NFL still bans it. Do I agree with the NFL? No.

Put there are plenty of players not smoking weed and not getting suspended. Why? Cause getting paid millions to play a game is way better than being jobless and high.

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

As someone who this September will celebrate 20 years clean and sober I can say that one of the most frustrating things I encounter among other sober people is the notion that the path they took out of addiction is the ONLY path there is. He comes from the "dog's nose in his own doodoo" school of sobriety. It works for some people, it didn't work for me. I thrive from love and support, feeling like I'm not alone and people are in my corner. Loneliness, isolation and being shunned make me drink and drug harder and longer. It's largely about timing and the person's internal weather and external pressures when the light does finally flicker on. I've sponsored lots of guys over the years and I very much come from the school of "whatever works for you". It most often DOES involve some version of separating yourself, at least for a while, from people & places that are destructive to your constructive aims. I've told many sponsee's over the years it's largely about positive momentum. It get's easier and harder and easier and harder BUT the overall trajectory is easier over the long run.

Look, these threads always devolve into a philosophical debate on the nature of addiction and the definition of addiction, the interpretation of fairness of the rules of the NFL work place and all our own projected feelings from personal experiences about squandered opportunities and lost youth in the face of our own past demons, blindness and stupidity.

The way I see it is this... we still have NO idea the nature of his suspension. There's a bunch of rumors about it being pot, it being a missed test that later came up clean etc etc. We still know nothing. The DUI while speeding on the other hand is a very good indicator to me that this kid is in serious denial and a very good candidate for a downward spiral, the negative momentum. It might get plead down and not effect anything but his PR but if I'm with the team that DUI is, in fact, the thing that rings the loudest bell for me. I wouldn't claim to know how to handle it with Josh because I don't know Josh. I think DQuell is closest to the truth... those people closest to him need to rally around him and try to get him evaluated, try to intervene. Just releasing him or making him grovel is probably not the best way to go. But again, I don't know because I don't know Josh. What I do sense is that he doesn't have any positive momentum and there's a ton of negativity around him. He's got to be feeling it. If I'm with the team I'm trying to reach out, convince him to engage with a professional who understands his psychology and his position and can figure out the best ways to help him out. There's no way to do that from 40,000 feet. I hope there's someone in the Browns and in his circle who know engage him and understand this stuff. Good luck to him.

Who among us doesn't experience this:

Things that I want to do, I don't do, and things that I don't want to do, I find myself doing.

We're all at different levels of that. But all of us live that.

One of the problems on the board is passing judgement on others for those things of which we are in control while conveniently overlooking those things of which we struggle.

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

I am glad it worked for CC, however there is no guarnaty that what worked for him would work for JG.

Back then they did not have the ability to suspend for a year, now they do. That suspension will not be markedly affected if we release him or not. When it is up, if he follows all protocals he will be reinstated to us, if we release him teams will be lined up to sign him.

My guess is that he can not walk the straight and narrow and there a good chance he never sees the field again. pity

Chris Carter and Josh Gordon are in entirely different leagues of substance abuse.

Cocaine <> Weed

Josh Gordon is just not very smart. That's the difference.

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Chris Carter and Josh Gordon are in entirely different leagues of substance abuse.

Cocaine <> Weed

Josh Gordon is just not very smart. That's the difference.

Drug Schedules

Schedule I marijuana (cannabis),

Schedule II cocaine

http://www.justice.gov/dea/druginfo/ds.shtml

weed is worse than cocaine.

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Chris Carter and Josh Gordon are in entirely different leagues of substance abuse.

Cocaine <> Weed

Josh Gordon is just not very smart. That's the difference.

Drug Schedules

Schedule I marijuana (cannabis),

Schedule II cocaine

http://www.justice.gov/dea/druginfo/ds.shtml

weed is worse than cocaine.

Yup, because the government is something worth listening to

only a fool, and law enforcement agencies, would believe that marijuana is worse than cocaine.

So, no problem for Johnny Whitenose then, right?

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So, no problem for Johnny Whitenose then, right?

Schedule II

Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, less abuse potential than Schedule I drugs, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous

http://www.justice.gov/dea/druginfo/ds.shtml

sounds like there might be a problem.

Why do you guys keep responding to this guy?

He's obviously trying to get a rise...and I'm not even sure English is his first language.

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hmmm. choice between the government or the potheads. what a hard choice.

only a fool would use either.

Agreed. So, why are you doing so?

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josh has a problem and he should be forced into rehab. jmo.

He does have a problem.
Forcing him into rehab isn't a solution. It isn't even a punishment. It is something that can perhaps give him some self-awareness, but that's all it can do. It does not fix, solve, nor cure, anything.

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jc

Listening to Fox Sports they believe the DUI will be dropped down to a reckless driving and will be a non-issue. One thing I thought interesting is they mentioned on the show was how can they punish Josh for DUI when they haven't done anything to Irsay?

And how the NFL still supports Haslam even though his company has fleeced some of his customers out of tens of millions of dollars.

-Oh, I forgot. He didn't know.

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I agree 100 percent. He does need new friends

Easier said then done. The kind of people we'd like him to hang with probably don't want to hang with him.

Birds of a feather flock together. His hanging with scumbag types is a pretty good indicator he is a scumbag type.

Generally you hang with people in your social circle.. he grew up with that and has continued it... he needs to realize he is in a new place in his life and walk away from the old... yea, I understand how hard that is, how much that makes you a sellout or disloyal, etc.. but if he wants a productive NFL career, that's what he has to do...

Just like a recovering alcoholic can't have bottles of booze lying around his house because of the temptation, Gordon can't hang with the same crew and expect to change.. It's virtually impossible..

J/C...

Weed worse than cocaine.

Lol

I wish Don Rogers had smoked weed instead of using cocaine. He'd still be alive, and we might have been to 2 SB's in the 80's.

My point is that the drugs they but could have damn near anything in them.

There was a guy who smuggled drugs by shoving them up his rear end. Now I don't care if they were hermetically sealed ... i still wouldn't touch them.

This is a very interesting read from SI's Jared Mueller, who is a counselor licensed with the State of Ohio. He mentions other articles he has written about Gordon and they can be found/activated by clicking the link at the bottom of this article.

Understanding Josh Gordon

by Jared Mueller 2d ago

Josh Gordon was arrested in North Carolina yesterday and Cleveland Browns fans are understandably distraught, frustrated, angry, worried, concerned and whole host of other adjectives. Gordon had an amazing season that had Browns fans looking forward to having a dominate offensive player for the first time in many of their memories. Trying to look through rose colored glasses, a rare thing for Clevelanders, fans hoped that this breakout would also assist Gordon in overcoming his personal demons.

Yet we knew last year that Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi were looking to possibly deal Gordon last year. Fans would of been in a uproar had that deal gone down, reportedly the San Francisco 49ers were closest to making the deal. Even this off-season there were rumblings that the new regime wasn’t high on Gordon’s character, though everyone loves his on the field talent. Unfortunately due to the combination of the risk of a suspension, the fan backlash and the amazing season he put together last year Gordon was never going to bring back enough in draft picks or players to make a trade possible.

On the second day of the NFL Draft, and then yesterday again, fans were reminded of the difficulty of having Gordon on the Cleveland Browns. He is a tantalizing player with a troubled character. A player that lights up the field but also sees the lights of police cars far to often. A player that can take the top off the defense and cut the legs out from under the team all in the same weekend. Gordon is now untradeable but who could be the top receiver in the NFL for the next decade.

Fans on Twitter were obviously highly frustrated with the most recent arrest. Many want him cut. Many want the Browns to hire a babysitter for him like the Cowboys didDez Bryant (Side note: Gordon would have to accept that and once he is suspended the Browns cannot do so.) The one thing that is clear from fan reaction is that it is difficult to understand Gordon and his behaviors. Like any situation most people try to think what they would do if they were in his situation. The problem with that logic is that all of our experiences lead us to make all of our decisions and all of his experiences lead him to make his decisions. Placing our life experiences directly into his life to make decisions is unreasonable.

Any logical person can logically say that Gordon, with all of his future earning potential and responsibility to his teammates, should keep from any substances, from all his friends and change his lifestyle. For many of us with a 9 to 5 job we understand that we would make any number of sacrifices to play a game and make millions of dollars. Many of us have made those sacrifices for much tougher jobs, for far less pay.

Over at Factory of Sadness this writer has written 2 long pieces on Gordon in the past few months. Both articles are written from the perspective of my 9 to 5 job as a counselor licensed with the State of Ohio. It is important to note that none of what you are about to read is trying to make excuses for Gordon or make you feel bad for him. I repeat, no excuses. The goal is understanding for Gordon and some of his experiences, both with marijuana and his culture. Some of you have had similar experiences and made far better decisions then Gordon, and we applaud you. This is about Gordon.

Over at Factory of Sadness this writer has written 2 long pieces on Gordon in the past few months. Both articles are written from the perspective of my 9 to 5 job as a counselor licensed with the State of Ohio. It is important to note that none of what you are about to read is trying to make excuses for Gordon or make you feel bad for him. I repeat, no excuses. The goal is understanding for Gordon and some of his experiences, both with marijuana and his culture. Some of you have had similar experiences and made far better decisions then Gordon, and we applaud you. This is about Gordon.

First we addressed Marijuana use and concerns related to it:

Why the Concern: The effects aren’t great. The withdrawals are similar to a cold or bad night sleep. Many states have legalized the substance. What is the concern for Gordon, other NFL Players or the normal everyday citizen? As a counselor there are a few reasons to be concerned:

Motivation - A unmotivated Gordon is less likely to work hard on his craft, whether physically or mentally.
Social - Most substance users hang out primarily with people who also use the same substance they do. A non-diverse crowd can always be problematic. Especially when substances are involved.
Legality - Factually it is illegal in many states and is banned in the NFL. Using something that is not allowed is concerning for an athlete who needs to be disciplined as well as the common man who could get in trouble. In states where marijuana is illegal often users limit their job choices to ones where they are not drug tested, often lower paying jobs.
Emotional Regulation - (Expounded on deeper in this article which opens in a new window)

Second we addressed the Culture that Gordon may be influenced by:

Long Term Planning

Most people in CoP (Culture of Poverty) never learn the skills of long term planning because they have to learn how to survive day to day. Those day to day skills beget decision making that limits the ability to make longer term plans. Cyclically planning ahead, even 24 to 48 hours ahead, is not beneficial for today and becomes an unused or unlearned skill. This plays out in how they spend their money (spending their bank account down to zero is normal), how they socialize (doing whatever comes up at any moment) and the type of employment/money making opportunities they take (make as much money now as possible).

Loyalty

In the CoP community is vital. Many of these communities learn how to lean on each other for help. When one family in the community is struggling others come around to help that family. It might not be with money but a couch to sleep on, a car to borrow, a little food here and there. In non-CoP communities they have the finances to deal with their own issues and problems. Often in CoP that dependence spawns loyalty on both sides. Gangs will often given young athletes a pass, and actually provide protection, instead of recruiting them. Those that actually make it out of the CoP then feel a sense of loyalty to take care of those who are still in, in the same way they saw them taking care of their family growing up. That loyalty creates situations where, especially those who hit it big like Gordon, make it a point to stay loyal, Blind Loyalty, to his people from when he grew up.

Pride/Image

Pride and image go together greatly in the CoP. Financial status, especially for men, tends to be an identifier. In the CoP, even if you don’t have the money, presenting well and putting off a good image, like you have money, is important. It isn’t surprising to see cars with really expensive systems but the bumper falling off. Children wearing the newest desire labels but crying because they are hungry. Buying expensive electronics or jewelry when the tax refund check comes in, instead of getting a new roof put on the house. All of these things are to present an image, to feel proud.

Remember there is not a goal of making excuses for Gordon here. Many people, generally about 25%, make it out of the CoP and are successful in their lives. Gordon has the opportunity to do so himself but needs the support, education and patience to make that happen. The Dr. Phil answer, someone who isn’t licensed and is not respected in the MH community, is to just stop making poor decisions. As a fan of the Browns and Gordon, I want it to be that easy. Sadly it is not.

I hope something here was beneficial to you today. I hope it sparks discussion not derision. I hope Gordon gets his act together, and is not suspended at all, before his career spirals away. I hope no matter what Gordon is successful.

Josh Gordon is not like you. Josh Gordon is not like me. That doesn’t make him better, that doesn’t make him worse. It makes him Josh Gordon. Yet just like you, who has overcome a variety of things to make it to where you are today, Gordon has a chance to do so as well. It is important as fans, as people, we stop putting our experiences and our expectations on other people. We should expect all people to make healthy, positive and lawful choices. When they don’t, as many don’t, the legal system has the responsibility of judging and holding them accountable. What you and I do is up to us.

The Browns on the other hand have a decision to make. Should they cut Gordon to make it clear they won’t allow poor choices? Gordon then could go on to sign anywhere if/when he is reinstated. Gordon could then go on to destroy the league at the receiver position, not on the Browns. Or the Browns can keep him around, since they won’t have to pay him during his suspension, look to help him while risking his behaviors getting worse and possibly reap the possible benefits on the other side. There is no wrong decision, but hopefully an informed decision.

Can you relate to Gordon? Do you understand Gordon better now? What do you think the Browns should do?
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Good post, mac.

This is the part that stands out to me and explains much about why he is "risking his future" by doing these things. He just doesn't understand the concept of future like others.

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Most people in CoP (Culture of Poverty) never learn the skills of long term planning because they have to learn how to survive day to day. Those day to day skills beget decision making that limits the ability to make longer term plans. Cyclically planning ahead, even 24 to 48 hours ahead, is not beneficial for today and becomes an unused or unlearned skill. This plays out in how they spend their money (spending their bank account down to zero is normal), how they socialize (doing whatever comes up at any moment) and the type of employment/money making opportunities they take (make as much money now as possible

Thanks Mac.

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Chris Carter and Josh Gordon are in entirely different leagues of substance abuse.

Cocaine <> Weed

Josh Gordon is just not very smart. That's the difference.

Drug Schedules

Schedule I marijuana (cannabis),

Schedule II cocaine

http://www.justice.gov/dea/druginfo/ds.shtml

weed is worse than cocaine.

Wait....are you being serious?

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My point is that the drugs they but could have damn near anything in them.

There was a guy who smuggled drugs by shoving them up his rear end. Now I don't care if they were hermetically sealed ... i still wouldn't touch them.

You could just put the stuff on a shingle.

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A person really has no way of knowing what is in anything they buy. They could be buying a bag of pot mixed with grass cut from the front yard, and dog crap for all they know

Are you serious with this?

Are you picturing a dark alley with steam coming up from the sewers? Dealer got a toothpick in his mouth? Trenchcoat? Tam hat, maybe?

The hat for sure.

Thanks for sharing Mac,
That really says allot about the Culture some people have to overcome. It's obvious JG struggles with breaking away from his. Thank goodness many of us have not had to experience.(some have, 25% per the article make it out)

Much to play out, I'm expecting the worse and hoping for the best ( hey were Brown's fans)

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A person really has no way of knowing what is in anything they buy. They could be buying a bag of pot mixed with grass cut from the front yard, and dog crap for all they know

Are you serious with this?

Are you picturing a dark alley with steam coming up from the sewers? Dealer got a toothpick in his mouth? Trenchcoat? Tam hat, maybe?

I have a brother who works for the Sheriff's department. You would be amazed at what the analysis of some street level drugs come back showing. I don't remember him ever talking about anything with pot ...... but he has some real horror stories about some other street drugs.

Yes, I am serious.

It's why the 'better' dance parties, especially in Europe, have testing stations for you to take your stuff and get it checked before ingesting. They know it's smarter to accept the fact those things are going to be around, and make it safe, rather than to haul off a young adult via ambulance later in the night.

j/c

I spent 5 years teaching in an inner-city charter school which featured Arts education as one of its supporting legs.

For many of the newest schoolkids, the biggest challenge was adjusting to the new culture of the school. I remember one kid who started playing violin only after she enrolled at the school- she was behind all the upperclassmen and behind any kid her age with prior experience.

Tia was a natural... she made up ground like I'd never seen before. Kid was learning at a freakishly accelerated rate. When we held our year's end playing tests, she completely botched the piece. Dawgs- that performance sounded like she'd just been handed the violin for the first time that day- that's how tragic this playing was. She scratched through the piece, marched over to her violin case, and closed the violin inside without saying a word. Stiff. Robotic. Deadpan expression on her face.

I was completely floored. Like someone had just poleaxed me with a 2X4. I'd coached her for months, and heard her play this piece note-perfect weeks in advance of the test date.

At the end of class, I called her aside, and asked her "what's up?" She wouldn't look me in the eye- just blankly stared off out the window with that well-practiced expressionless face-set. Finally, I just laid it out for her:

"You know I'm gonna stay on this, and you know you're gonna tell me sooner or later- so let's skip the usual dance and talk. Why did you play like that today? Why did you tank your test?" It seemed like 5 minutes of dead silence, but I'm sure it was less than a minute. I saw the kid struggling with something... and then she just broke down. Sniffling, shoulders heaving... broke my heart to see this pint-sized little pixie in so much pain.

"I'm losing them."
"Who? Who's 'them'?"
"My friends."
"Tia- you have a ton of-"
"NO! Not these kids. My 'home friends.' I'm losing them. [more sniffling/head buried in hands] "We're not likin' the same things like we used to. We don't talk. Cammy called me 'booshie' the other day 'cause I wanted to turn the radio to the orchestra station. I was just tired of the same ol'- and I thought she might like it like me. She got all mad at me...." [more sobbing].

Damn.

Child took my old ass right back to Junior High. 35 years of life experience, higher education, professional success- frozen, right there in that classroom. I see myself in her, and realize that this stuff is just as raw for her now as it was for me then.

She had lunch period next, so I spent that time with her. (Cafeteria food is no better, 3 decades later- just sayin'). By the end of the next half-hour, I'd told her about my journey... and how my circle of friends has expanded because of my experiences. I told her about my childhood friends (my REAL childhood friends) who are still part of my life, even though our jobs/lives have taken us in different directions. And I also told her that the truest of friends will find ways to stay close, no matter what.

"This is part of growing up, Tia... and growing up is hard, 24/7. Why you think I look so old and beat-up?" [shared laugh]

Tia came in after school, and played the test piece down perfectly. She didn't say a word. Just walked over and closed her violin in the case. This time, with a slight smile.

________________

The culture issue is huge. Tia not only changed schools, she was being immersed in a totally different culture than the one surrounding her at home/on the block. Part of her could intuit that she was in a better place, heading in a better direction. Part of her felt like a traitor for not still being where she once was. It can make a person feel torn right down through the middle of his soul.

Tia graduated from TSA 5 years ago. She wound up in the 1st violin section of the local Youth Orchestra, playing alongside suburban kids who'd studied privately since the age of 6. When I last heard, she was heading off to college as an elementary education major... with her violin packed in the car.

If the factors outlined in mac's article are part of Josh Gordon's present situation, I can understand a bit better why he's not just 'flipped a switch,' and left his circle. When I stopped out of school, it was very easy to slip into the lives my old chums were living, even though I'd been away for more than 3 years. It took an extreme act of will on my part to extricate myself from that life, and pull the cello back out again. For 2 entire years of my early 20's, the instrument didn't see the light of day.

I'm glad that I spent that extra time with "Lemon Yellow" (my first nickname for her, because of the color of her sweater). And I'm glad that my own cultural crisis was resolved when I pulled the cello back out. Had I stayed at age 22, I'd have never had that talk with Tia.

I almost.... almost became Josh Gordon myself.

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Great story Clem and some serious insight.

My own youngest daughter was gifted as a child. All our friends and relatives marveled at her bright personality and her "beyond her age" intelligence even as a toddler. Her first three elementary teachers waxed on poetic about what a joy and breath of fresh air it was to have her in their respective classes. One of them told me she was a rare combination of maturity, intelligence and sparkling personality for a child her age. She predicted a bright future for her as we all did.

But when she got older and interested in boys she purposefully "dumbed-down" because she fit in better that way. I watched it happen and spoke to her about it when she was 13, but although she admitted it she felt it necessary at that stage of her life.

Unfortunately she stayed that way until it became who she is. She ran with the wrong crowds until she became just like them, school skipping, drug taking, binge drinking smart asses. As she grew into an adult she only became worse until at the age of 35 she is serving 3 years for cooking meth in her apartment from which she was being evicted.

I always thought that if she had been with me instead of with her mother, from the age of 12 when we were divorced, that things would have been different. But that would be giving myself a lot of credit I'm not sure I could have lived up to. I know I'd have set a better example as I did with my son whom I got custody of from the age of three. He's grown into a fine young man. But that's not to say that it would have been enough for her. Everyone has their own journey.

I only share this as another example of what a young person will do to "fit in" with their friends to the point of letting it drag them down even though they have all the tools to escape that culture they think they're stuck in.

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

That was a heck of a long time ago.. Did they suspend players for drug abuse back then? I honestly don't remember.

If they did then his comments may be valid. If they didn't or at least as severely as they do now, then I think suspension serves the same purpose as cutting a guy. He looses his lively hood, his career is on hold, (and may never come back) so getting cut isn't nearly as severe as suspension.

You get cut, another team picks you up and you go right back to work. you may have to take a pay cut for a year but if you prove yourself worthy, you will get paid.

I'm sure theres 31 other teams that'd love us to cut him too... especially whomever is 1st on the waiver wire...

Clem and ddubia - as always, remarkable posts. Thanks for sharing those stories as it gives some great insight.

I'd have to disagree with that one, BpG. One can be addicted to pot. It's just not a physical addiction.

It's a mental dependency on having that "high"

You don't feel as good when you're not high, so you get high. But then the more you get high, the more you need to smoke to GET high...

Also known as how my younger siblings spend their lives..

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It's a mental dependency on having that "high"

You don't feel as good when you're not high, so you get high. But then the more you get high, the more you need to smoke to GET high...

Also known as how my younger siblings spend their lives..

I cant imagine a better high then being one of the best in the world playing a game in front of millions of people. Thousands of whom are screaming for your success while you play.

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I'm sure theres 31 other teams that'd love us to cut him too... especially whomever is 1st on the waiver wire...

It is much more damaging to Gordon to suspend him than it is to cut him. I agree, if we cut him if he's suspended, there will be a bunch of teams that will run to sign him as soon as they can.

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I cant imagine a better high then being one of the best in the world playing a game in front of millions of people. Thousands of whom are screaming for your success while you play.

"Why woud anyone smoke grass when they can cut a lawn" .......... Hank Hill

I think the Browns have to let this all play out and see what they have in a year, then make the decision.

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I think the Browns have to let this all play out and see what they have in a year, then make the decision.

I agree, it will cost them nothing to do just that so why the heck not.

Cost nothing!?!?

It could cost Josh Gordon his LIFE!! Which will OBVIOUSLY go spinning out of control if he's not a free agent!

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Cost nothing!?!?

It could cost Josh Gordon his LIFE!! Which will OBVIOUSLY go spinning out of control if he's not a free agent!

WOW,, do I have to clear this up Really? IT COSTS THE BROWNS NOTHING.....

Your sarcasm detector needs some adjusting

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Your sarcasm detector needs some adjusting

LOL,, I didn't read it as sarcasm.. Purple font would have helped a little....

What's the point of being sarcastic if everyone knows I am being sarcastic?

Overly sarcastic at that...

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What's the point of being sarcastic if everyone knows I am being sarcastic?

Overly sarcastic at that...

That is the problem with being "That" guy.

Marijuana isn’t a “growing problem” for the NFL

Posted by Mike Florio on May 18, 2012, 4:04 PM EDT

The headline in the Detroit News claims that marijuana is a “growing problem” for the Lions and the NFL.

While growing marijuana can be a problem (especially when living next door to a judge) the only growing problem involving marijuana and the Lions is that their top two draft picks in 2011 got caught with it, allegedly, earlier this year.

Marijuana is and has been a fact of life for many athletes, for many years. The estimate from former NFL tackle Lomas Brown that 50 percent of the players in the NFL smoke marijuana should be surprising not because it seems high, but because it seems low.

And plenty of teams don’t care if a guy smokes marijuana, as long as a guy who has been caught is able to quit smoking marijuana before smoking marijuana jeopardizes his ability to play football. If/when the time comes to choose football over marijuana, the team needs the player to choose football.

So smoke ‘em if you got ‘em. Because if you get caught, you eventually need to stop smoking ‘em.

ProFootballTalk.com

It's not hard to smoke weed and play in the NFL.

You get tested for recreational drugs once a year. You take that test, and you're good for a year.

You have to be a jackass to get caught.

And once you get caught, it gets a lot tougher to get away with.

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You have to be a jackass to get caught.

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You have to be a jackass to get caught.

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And once you get caught, it gets a lot tougher to get away with.

Except Gordon came in already passed the first part on once a year testing...

Once you reach that point, you have to quit..

Wasn't he possibly tested something like 10 times a month? That's every 3 days..

Find a new hobby..

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You have to be a jackass to get caught.

x2

got to love the thinking of criminal minds. its ok if you don't get caught.

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A person really has no way of knowing what is in anything they buy. They could be buying a bag of pot mixed with grass cut from the front yard, and dog crap for all they know

Are you serious with this?

Are you picturing a dark alley with steam coming up from the sewers? Dealer got a toothpick in his mouth? Trenchcoat? Tam hat, maybe?

yea. everyone knows drug dealers\pushers are really just misunderstood upstanding citizens.

Michael Irvin on Cris Carter saying the Browns should cut Josh Gordon: 'his ass is out of line'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/michael_irvin_rips_cris_carter.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on July 09, 2014 at 9:50 PM, updated July 10, 2014 at 2:12 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Michael Irvin says that fellow Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter's "ass is out of line'' for urging the Browns to cut Josh Gordon in the wake of his DWI arrest last week.

Irvin, who gave a motivational speech to the Browns last summer, became a mentor to Gordon through his friendship with former Browns coach Rob Chudzinski and former offensive coordinator Norv Turner and knows Gordon personally.

"I was so hot when I heard it,'' Irvin told Dan LeBatard on Wednesday on Miami's The Ticket radio station, via the Palm Beach Post. "I was so hot. You know, I love Cris Carter and he's a good dude and I know what he's trying to do and he's doing his job because his job is to bring his experience to the desk, to a microphone, and share his experiences.

"But he's touching these lines, just like I'm touching when I'm trying to help guys, and you're on TV. You have to toe a thin line here, you have to toe a very thin line. People consider you, like, 'you talked to Josh so you must know more. If you said they need to cut him, then my God, maybe they should cut him.'

"Now, isolation for Cris may have been the best thing. Separation, for Cris, may have been the best thing. For Josh, maybe it's the worst thing.''

Irvin, who like Carter has battled his own drug addiction, emphasized that everyone's situation is different. Carter's point, both to cleveland.com and on ESPN's Mike and Mike show, was that being released by the Browns would be Gordon's catalyst to getting clean, just like it was for him when Eagles coach Buddy Ryan cut him in 1990.

"This is a brain disease,'' said Irvin, who planned to encourage Gordon to attend Larry Fitzgerald's pro receiver camp in Minnesota this summer. "Addiction is a brain disease. You know, we act as if 'how can you make that decision? You must be stupid.' He's not. That's why they call substances dope. Because it makes you less intelligent and you make the poor decision. It's a brain disease. And it affects everybody differently.

"You know, what worked for Cris -- when we're talking about true recovery -- may not work for the other, so you can't make a blanket statement and just say 'worked for me, it'll work for him,' because that's not necessarily the truth and I thought it was a bit irresponsible. We have to be very careful in this position given the situation where you're trying to help people. ...and then also turn around, saying 'I'm mentoring and I'm helping.'

"The people start thinking that you have insight on the situation, so when you come out and make those kinds of comments and you're not in his sessions with his professional help, you don't know what's going on in those sessions, then you're being irresponsible. I was a bit disappointed Cris Carter made that statement.''

Irvin then shared that he felt Carter also crossed the line with Irvin when Irvin was struggling with substance abuse.

"I'm going to (get) a little personal on this even though I love Cris to death,'' said Irvin. "I don't know what year it was we were in the Pro Bowl. And all Cris is trying to do, he's just trying to share his experiences. He said to my wife -- he said to my wife -- 'you know, Michael would never come out of this problem until you leave him. Till you leave him.' For years, I've held it. I've never shared that with anybody. I've never in my life shared that with anybody. I was so irked with Cris because he was out of line then. His ass is out of line now. He is out of line.''

A source told cleveland.com that the Browns are working hard to get Gordon help in the aftermath of the DWI, during which his blood-alcohol level was .09. The arrest came in the midst of Gordon awaiting word on his indefinite ban from the NFL for at least his third violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy.

Gordon's appeal hearing is set for later this month.

(end)

dang, Irvin is heated.

sounds like he has a right to be.

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dang, Irvin is heated.

Can't say I blame him at all.

I think Irvin has made some valid points,. Just because something works for one guy, doesn't mean it's going to work for the next guy.

Also, Carter didn't take into account the team aspect of things.

As for the team getting Gordon help, it's a nice gesture, but until he decides to change, nothing can help him.

"I'm going to (get) a little personal on this even though I love Cris to death,'' said Irvin. "I don't know what year it was we were in the Pro Bowl. And all Cris is trying to do, he's just trying to share his experiences. He said to my wife -- he said to my wife -- 'you know, Michael would never come out of this problem until you leave him. Till you leave him.' For years, I've held it. I've never shared that with anybody. I've never in my life shared that with anybody. I was so irked with Cris because he was out of line then. His ass is out of line now. He is out of line.''

What the hell is wrong with Cris? I can't believe Irvin likes the dude after that. Oh man, I'm getting mad just thinking about this.

I've said it before.....Cris Carter is a joke.

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Marijuana isn’t a “growing problem” for the NFL

Posted by Mike Florio on May 18, 2012, 4:04 PM EDT

The headline in the Detroit News claims that marijuana is a “growing problem” for the Lions and the NFL.

While growing marijuana can be a problem (especially when living next door to a judge) the only growing problem involving marijuana and the Lions is that their top two draft picks in 2011 got caught with it, allegedly, earlier this year.

Marijuana is and has been a fact of life for many athletes, for many years. The estimate from former NFL tackle Lomas Brown that 50 percent of the players in the NFL smoke marijuana should be surprising not because it seems high, but because it seems low.

And plenty of teams don’t care if a guy smokes marijuana, as long as a guy who has been caught is able to quit smoking marijuana before smoking marijuana jeopardizes his ability to play football. If/when the time comes to choose football over marijuana, the team needs the player to choose football.

So smoke ‘em if you got ‘em. Because if you get caught, you eventually need to stop smoking ‘em.

ProFootballTalk.com

I would have to say that the "50% of the players in the NFL smoke marijuana" quote seems really, really high (no pun intended) to me... I don't think the percentage of pot smokers would differ that much in the NFL than people in everyday life.

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I don't think the percentage of pot smokers would differ that much in the NFL than people in everyday life.

I do.

Pain relief for the beating these guys take all year.

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I don't think the percentage of pot smokers would differ that much in the NFL than people in everyday life.

I do.

Pain relief for the beating these guys take all year.

I know there are people who actually use pot for pain relief, but I smoked it for years and years and years and not one time did I ever use it for pain relief, or thought of it as a pain-relieving drug. I still don't, but if it works for you in that manner....

There are better drugs out there for pain relief that are legal in the NFL.

I also think if 50% of football players actually smoked pot, more of them would be getting caught doing so.

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I don't think the percentage of pot smokers would differ that much in the NFL than people in everyday life.

I do.

Pain relief for the beating these guys take all year.

I also think if 50% of football players actually smoked pot, more of them would be getting caught doing so.

Not really. If you're not in any stages then they only test for pot once a year at the start of training camp. So if you can just not smoke weed for one week then you can for the next 51 weeks.

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Also, Carter didn't take into account the team aspect of things.

Did Carter get cut because he was using, or because he was playing like crap?

He was a lower draft pick that wasn't performing, so he got cut...

Josh Gordon was the best WR in the league last year... their stories are completely different...

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Also, Carter didn't take into account the team aspect of things.

Did Carter get cut because he was using, or because he was playing like crap?

He was a lower draft pick that wasn't performing, so he got cut...

Josh Gordon was the best WR in the league last year... their stories are completely different...

It's so easy to get the facts...

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Philadelphia Eagles

A 4th round pick by the Philadelphia Eagles in the 1987 supplemental draft, Carter saw limited action during his rookie season catching just 5 passes for 84 yards and 2 touchdowns. His first professional catch was a 22-yard touchdown vs. the St. Louis Cardinals.[10]

Carter got more involved in the Eagles offense in 1988 catching 39 passes for 761 yards and tying for the team lead with 6 scoring receptions. In 1989, he became the teams' primary red zone receiver, leading the Eagles with 11 TD catches (3rd in the NFC) while hauling in 45 passes for 605 yards.[11]

Shortly after, Carter had a falling out with coach Buddy Ryan and was a surprise cut following the pre-season. Carter later admitted that Ryan released him because of alcohol and drug abuse, including large amounts of ecstasy, cocaine and marijuana, and credits his former coach with helping him turn his life around as a result.[1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cris_Carter

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Also, Carter didn't take into account the team aspect of things.

Did Carter get cut because he was using, or because he was playing like crap?

He was a lower draft pick that wasn't performing, so he got cut...

Josh Gordon was the best WR in the league last year... their stories are completely different...

Not really. Carter got drafted in the Sup, so he went pretty low (But Josh could have went low as well). Carter then dominated within the Eagles offense.

I'm just tired of Carters "I know more about this than everyone because it happened to me, and if you don't do what I say you're dumb" attitude basically...

He looked and sounded like a tool with his materofactly "I would release him" comment...

And tellng someone's wife that they have to leave him is terrible..

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I would have to say that the "50% of the players in the NFL smoke marijuana" quote seems really, really high (no pun intended) to me... I don't think the percentage of pot smokers would differ that much in the NFL than people in everyday life.

Considering most every player in the NFL is 35 or younger, and a majority of players in their 20's, I believe NFL average pot use would be substantially higher than the nation's population as a whole.

j/c

why cant we get players that think this way?

And that got them a 2-14 record last year.

Who cares what these guys do in their free time.

Just win and nothing else matters.

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Who cares what these guys do in their free time.

...he said, in the Josh Gordon DUI thread.

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Did Carter get cut because he was using, or because he was playing like crap?

He was a lower draft pick that wasn't performing, so he got cut...

Josh Gordon was the best WR in the league last year... their stories are completely different...

Exactly. This is why I can't believe some of the ridiculous comments on this thread about Gordon, some going as far as to suggest his life hangs in the balance. It's utter nonsense. So Gordon likes to smoke and got caught with .09 in his blood. Why does this mean his life is out of control? Is there any evidence that his extracurricular activities have affected his physical performance? He only led the league in receiving last year. As far as physical performance is concerned, I'd advise him to keep smoking. Don't mess with a good thing. Gordon just happens to work for an organization with asinine rules. Now you can call him stupid for getting caught. I don't think it's that simple, but I'll concede on that. But anyone who projects these rule violations to Gordon's life in general have a serious misperception problem, fueled by rampant media speculation, no doubt.

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some going as far as to suggest his life hangs in the balance.

Fine.. I'll start using purple font.. jeez...

Anyways, the point is not about how stupid the NFL rules are (very) it's the fact that THEY ARE THE RULES..

And it's not so much his life is out of control, it's that his only discernible life skill that anyone is aware of is playing professional sports.. and if he continues doing what he does, he won't be able to do that..

Then what will he do?

Maurice Clarett is the extreme example, guy was going to be great, got full of himself, partied too much, ended up broke, and almost killed someone.. Now he's locked up...

Josh has a really nice car that I can't assume he's paid off already, and probably a bunch of other crap people give athelets "on loan"

If he can't play football, he can't pay for them, and then what happens? Look at VY filing bankruptcy, and that was only because he sucked at football...

I've always said, Do what ever you want during the offseason, just don't get caught, because all I care about as a guy on the Browns, is how you help the team.. Maybe that's crude, but it's true...

Josh came into the system at a stage where he could be tested up to like 10 times a month, that's every 3 days... If you value playing in the NFL, and the money that comes with it, then maybe you just should stop smoking weed for the next 10 years...

And hey when you retire, toke it up right before you step on stage at Canton..

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But anyone who projects these rule violations to Gordon's life in general have a serious misperception problem, fueled by rampant media speculation, no doubt.

Money isn't everything in life, but if I went from being on the verge of an eight figure contract to being on the verge of unemployment because of my drug and alcohol use, then yes, I would certainly have to consider whether or not my actions were ruining my life.

I don't understand the whole 'eh, it's weed' or 'eh, .09' type thinking. It makes absolutely no sense. That type of thinking is examining each instance in a vacuum, and ignoring the bigger picture. Myopic.

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Money isn't everything in life, but if I went from being on the verge of an eight figure contract to being on the verge of unemployment because of my drug and alcohol use, then yes, I would certainly have to consider whether or not my actions were ruining my life.

Not saying I agree, or disagree, with Cris Carter's statements - but if being released is what it took to "bring him to the light" - then maybe the same "could" apply to Josh.

Sad-to-say and admit, but all the Gordon trade talk that I raised my nose up to and spit on, didn't want to hear, wish it to be untrue and etc... kind of regretting it a little. That would have assured us not having to deal with Gordon's bullcrap, got a huge value outta the deal and would have likely assured the Browns to have selected a WR high-round.

Food for thought. I'd feel more comfy going into this season with Sammy and A. Hawkins and whoever else and Buster and Haden at corner with whoever else at nickle instead of Gilbert. Our offense is seriously going to have to continue to bank on the defense providing them opportunities, good ball placement/field positioning and keeping opposing offenses off the scoreboard cause we just don't have the weapons to move the ball if Kyle and the entire aspects that will form our run game cannot produce.

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some going as far as to suggest his life hangs in the balance.

Fine.. I'll start using purple font.. jeez...

Are you related to Damanshot?

I'm not really worried about what people think Josh should do.

I'd be more interested in hearing from Josh, what he thinks, how he feels, etc.

Obviously, I'm not in that position, but a lot of these guys talking are. People like Carter or D'Qwell mean well, but if they really want to help, call the kid and listen.

At least Jacksonville is lucky and knows Blackmon is done...

Gordon sits here and drags us along the entire time..

Oh, well then I guess he does fit in in Cleveland afterall...

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I'd be more interested in hearing from Josh, what he thinks, how he feels, etc.

No disrespect bro but bluntly putting it - why would you even care as to what Josh has to say? He's already done everything opposite of what he's preached and said before about many things regarding staying outta trouble, not going back to his old self, proving/not letting down the Browns, etc etc etc etc. Some could call him a liar and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them.

Me personally, anything Josh really would have to say would likely not be taken seriously to me, unless he said he apologies, he knows he has a problem, and he knows he needs to check himself into a rehab environment. JMO.

I think "rehab environment" is the right term..

I don't think he literally needs to go a rehab facility, but he needs to "rehab" the way he goes about his life..

It could be as simple as who he surrounds himself with, a young man, with money, and fame.. There is always going to be those people that are looking to latch on and take the ride with you... And it doesn't matter to them if you crash and burn...

I think that's Manziel's biggest problem right now, and it may be Josh's...

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Myopic.

I think it's myopic to judge Gordon's situation based on (a) lack of knowledge about his case, and (b) failing to take into account the NFL's abnormal drug regulations. The tired response about him needing to obey the rules no matter what they are is missing the point. Drug use seems to be second nature to Gordon. Under ordinary circumstances, I don't think you would have a problem with that given your "just don't get caught" position. And as I said before, his drug use obviously isn't affecting his physical performance.

Now, consider you had a job for which you were paid an exorbitant amount of money, and that job suited your skill set so well that you couldn't come close to making that kind of money any other way. Naturally, you are going to take that job, right? Now consider that this job has some asinine rules about a personal behavior that is in your nature, a behavior that is trivial insofar as your mental, physical, and emotional competence is concerned. But your boss is hung up on regulating this particular behavior of yours for some ridiculous reason, and you are put in the difficult situation not doing the thing that is in your nature to do. In this situation, do you really think it is as simple as saying, "Well, they're paying me a lot of money to do this job, so I'll just stop this behavior that is perfectly normal for me despite the absolute arbitrariness of the rule"?

This hypothetical is probably a complete waste of time because everyone is going to reply that of course they would. But I'm calling BS on that because none of you have been in that situation, so you don't have a clue about how you would react.

The only problem with your reply, is that all jobs that have good pay and benefits have clauses concerning a drug policy and conduct. No matter your skill set.

If Gordon is aware that it's "in his nature" not to live by those rules, he should have been looking for help to change that behavior. I smoked weed for decades. I drank for decades.

But at some point, my job required that to change. To say it wasn't a part of "my nature" to do those things would be incorrect. However, I went against what seemed natural to me to do what was necessary to bring about changes.

I agree with you in principal because I never went to work high. I never let what I did off the job effect my job. But the fact is that there are boundaries set that most all of us must adhere to.

Society will not change simply to suit "our nature". He has to change or kiss his career good bye. Those are his choices. And it seems he's been making a decision in that regard.

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I've said it before.....Cris Carter is a joke.

Both Carter and Irvin had problems. Which one would you actually want to mentor your troubled football players?

I wonder if Irvin would be willing to work for the Browns to get Gordon's head on straight. Find out how much it would cost and double it.

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Myopic.

I think it's myopic to judge Gordon's situation based on (a) lack of knowledge about his case, and (b) failing to take into account the NFL's abnormal drug regulations. The tired response about him needing to obey the rules no matter what they are is missing the point. Drug use seems to be second nature to Gordon. Under ordinary circumstances, I don't think you would have a problem with that given your "just don't get caught" position. And as I said before, his drug use obviously isn't affecting his physical performance.

Now, consider you had a job for which you were paid an exorbitant amount of money, and that job suited your skill set so well that you couldn't come close to making that kind of money any other way. Naturally, you are going to take that job, right? Now consider that this job has some asinine rules about a personal behavior that is in your nature, a behavior that is trivial insofar as your mental, physical, and emotional competence is concerned. But your boss is hung up on regulating this particular behavior of yours for some ridiculous reason, and you are put in the difficult situation not doing the thing that is in your nature to do. In this situation, do you really think it is as simple as saying, "Well, they're paying me a lot of money to do this job, so I'll just stop this behavior that is perfectly normal for me despite the absolute arbitrariness of the rule"?

This hypothetical is probably a complete waste of time because everyone is going to reply that of course they would. But I'm calling BS on that because none of you have been in that situation, so you don't have a clue about how you would react.

The fact that you don't see the behaviors that are part of his personal nature are The Problem is indicative of the fact that you don't understand the problem here at all.

The notion that is doesn't affect his physical performance has absolutely zero bearing on anything. The fact that he fails drugs tests and gets arrested - and thus it IS affecting his life - is ALL that matters..

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This hypothetical is probably a complete waste of time

Yes, it is.. but not for the reasons you might think.

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despite the absolute arbitrariness of the rule

His, and your (and everyone else not in power to change the rule) opinion of the rule doesn't matter.
If you want to get paid, you got to play by their rules. Sure, you can test it, but if you get caught, it's nobodies fault but yours that you're burned and no longer collecting a check. Take whatever actions you want, but own up to your consequences.

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I think it's myopic to judge Gordon's situation based on (a) lack of knowledge about his case, and (b) failing to take into account the NFL's abnormal drug regulations.

B does not matter.

That's like standing in front of a judge and telling them you don't believe in marijuana laws when you get arrested. You may have a valid point, but it won't get you anywhere and your personal beliefs don't have any bearing on the reality of the law.

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Under ordinary circumstances, I don't think you would have a problem with that given your "just don't get caught" position.

That is my stance.

I've said many times that I don't care if he smokes weed all day, every day. Just don't get caught.

I don't really care about the guy outside of him playing Cleveland Browns football. But if you ask my opinion...yeah, I'd say the guy is flushing his life down the toilet, and his drug and alcohol use is the reason why.

Why do you feel that's a shortsighted opinion?

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Now, consider you had a job for which you were paid an exorbitant amount of money, and that job suited your skill set so well that you couldn't come close to making that kind of money any other way. Naturally, you are going to take that job, right? Now consider that this job has some asinine rules about a personal behavior that is in your nature, a behavior that is trivial insofar as your mental, physical, and emotional competence is concerned. But your boss is hung up on regulating this particular behavior of yours for some ridiculous reason, and you are put in the difficult situation not doing the thing that is in your nature to do. In this situation, do you really think it is as simple as saying, "Well, they're paying me a lot of money to do this job, so I'll just stop this behavior that is perfectly normal for me despite the absolute arbitrariness of the rule"?

Unequivocally, yes.

Especially when that set of rules is incredibly lax, and very easy to maneuver around.

And, yes, I have been in that situation. I've worked for companies that require 'random' testing that basically boil down to one test a year to fulfill insurance requirements.

You make sure you're clean for that test, and you're on your way.

And that's pretty much how it works in the NFL. Unless you're a moron and fail it. Then it gets more strict.

Gordon's inability to adhere in that regard is a troubling sign, and it's not overreacting or being overblown to say so.

Imagine putting your hand over a hot stove, getting burned, and pulling back. Then you stare at it for awhile, and put your hand back over it. Over and over.

That's a good analogy for what Gordon is doing.

This is, what, his ninth or tenth screw-up in the last three or four years? You think that's OK?

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why cant we get players that think this way?

We have plenty of them:

Joe Thomas
Mitchell Schwartz
Mack
Kruger
Obi
Hoyer
Skrine
Kitchen
Austin
Bitonio
Mingo
Rubin

And a number more.

Good responses from you and Pit. It's an interesting discussion, and I wish I had more time for it, but it's time for another hiatus from this board. I'll say this in conclusion. My thoughts on this issue hinge on what is in Gordon's nature to do, and I don't know him intimately, so I am in no better position to speculate on him than any of you are. Maybe he is just a moron. But I have a hard time accepting it's that simple. My experience has taught me that the simple answer regarding human nature, psychology, behavior, etc. is usually wrong, but I don't really have much of an alternative explanation myself. Anyway, thanks for the interesting and intelligent discussion. It's always appreciated.

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yea but you didn't answer the question. what made you stop? believe it or not I was blissfully unaware of pot and drugs 2 month ago. more to it what made you start?

Dude? You want me to believe your head is so screwed up without intoxicants? Whoa....

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Chris Carter on ESPN right now.. thankfully he's such an awesome guy who is here for Gordon...

"If you were the Browns, what would you do?"
"Release him"

Carter has frequently said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting released by his first nfl team (the team is escaping me right now) because it got him to wake up and kick his drug habit

As someone who this September will celebrate 20 years clean and sober I can say that one of the most frustrating things I encounter among other sober people is the notion that the path they took out of addiction is the ONLY path there is. He comes from the "dog's nose in his own doodoo" school of sobriety. It works for some people, it didn't work for me. I thrive from love and support, feeling like I'm not alone and people are in my corner. Loneliness, isolation and being shunned make me drink and drug harder and longer. It's largely about timing and the person's internal weather and external pressures when the light does finally flicker on. I've sponsored lots of guys over the years and I very much come from the school of "whatever works for you". It most often DOES involve some version of separating yourself, at least for a while, from people & places that are destructive to your constructive aims. I've told many sponsee's over the years it's largely about positive momentum. It get's easier and harder and easier and harder BUT the overall trajectory is easier over the long run.

Look, these threads always devolve into a philosophical debate on the nature of addiction and the definition of addiction, the interpretation of fairness of the rules of the NFL work place and all our own projected feelings from personal experiences about squandered opportunities and lost youth in the face of our own past demons, blindness and stupidity.

The way I see it is this... we still have NO idea the nature of his suspension. There's a bunch of rumors about it being pot, it being a missed test that later came up clean etc etc. We still know nothing. The DUI while speeding on the other hand is a very good indicator to me that this kid is in serious denial and a very good candidate for a downward spiral, the negative momentum. It might get plead down and not effect anything but his PR but if I'm with the team that DUI is, in fact, the thing that rings the loudest bell for me. I wouldn't claim to know how to handle it with Josh because I don't know Josh. I think DQuell is closest to the truth... those people closest to him need to rally around him and try to get him evaluated, try to intervene. Just releasing him or making him grovel is probably not the best way to go. But again, I don't know because I don't know Josh. What I do sense is that he doesn't have any positive momentum and there's a ton of negativity around him. He's got to be feeling it. If I'm with the team I'm trying to reach out, convince him to engage with a professional who understands his psychology and his position and can figure out the best ways to help him out. There's no way to do that from 40,000 feet. I hope there's someone in the Browns and in his circle who know engage him and understand this stuff. Good luck to him.

Congratulations on 19 and soon to be 20. I will have 16 yrs. next month. I'm forever grateful for what I've learned from a lot of good men and from the newbies who give me the honor of passing it along. The kid needs help. I'd love to see him play again, especially for us, but if he never does play another down, I hope he can find a solution to his very real problems.

I've been to three funerals this year in our small city thanks to smack and the people from Chicago and Detroit who are continually being busted here for keeping the supply flowing. It doesn't have to be smack, though, because victims of substance addiction seem to continually find creative ways to off themselves.