I think worth a Thread on its own.

Wilie stated that Bitonio was option "Z" for the left Tackle position. And here we are with Shon Coleman once pads were put on and we could actually start to evaluate the OL and make decisions.

Shon is a bust - and we moved to Z cause Desmond Harrison was on the PUP list. Robinson had a Concussion but just got his go ahead papers and will be back out there. We probably will utilize his with kid gloves the first week back. So I guess we were at "Z"... this also puts Corbett in probably his best position which has always been Left Guard.

Now Bitonio starts his LT play against probably the most athletic DE in the NFL, Garrett. By all account Bitonio actually held his own in his debut vs. Garrett so maybe plan Z is the answer to all.

The only thing is can Robinson all of a sudden morph into an actual LT, he has the athleticism don't know what was wrong with the kid. Hopefully in hard knocks I will get to see him in action that is if we don't just commit to Bitonio which very well could be the case. I haven't heard anything negative on Hubbard. Zietler pulled a little calf thingy but that will heal in a couple of weaks he won't miss a beat. Drango is taking his spot it seems that Drango will be the 6th man as he can literally play all 5 positions (actually don't know about Center but probably he can) and we got Reiter at Center for a backup.

So here is our potential.

Starting as it is right now:
Bitonio - Corbett - Tretter - Zeitler - Hubbard

The rest and I will put a (*) on those I believe will be a lock to our roster. The rest will have to fight for a position that can be anywhere between 8-10 in numbers.

Bowen 6'7" 335 rookie
Shon Coleman 6'5" 310 3rd year
Christian DeLauro 6'6" 300 rookie
Spener Drango * 6'6" 315 3rd year
Anthony Fabiano 6'4" 303 2nd year (Harvard kid)
Avery Gennesy 6'3" 318 2nd year
Geoff Gray 6'5" 315 2nd year (Canada kid)
Fred Launa 6'4" 315 rookie
Austin Reiter 6'3" 300 3rd year
Gregg Robinson 6'5" 330 5th year
Desmond Harrison* 6'6" 295 rookie (PUP LIST)

So we have 16 in all. I only put an (*) on two. Drango and Desmond the later being more I think so than a definite but He plays LT and I only heard good things from him he is coming from West Georgia not a college that is scouted much but he could be a kid that slipped through the cracks that our scouting department has caught. I think he will make our team and possibly if released it will be to go onto our Practice Squad.

Was close to putting a (*) on Reiter as he is our only true Center for backup but then I thought Drango would probably be able to man the back up Center...heck he was able to put in acceptable starts at LT last year. If called on I'm sure he would be able to handle it and who knows, he might find his TRUE POSITION if he is called on. ???

On paper Robinson is the most talented and has the most experience at Left Tackle but he has failed so far. I would think possibly football is a pay check for the young man. His skill set is tremendous and I don't know how he hasn't been able to master the position unless his mental participation just isn't there. Somebody that Big that Fast and athletic will get numerous opportunities and so far this is his 5th season able to get a 7 figure salary...beats whatever he can make on the outside and the job is seasonal!

I think the rookies are key.
Also I would like to take a closer look at Fabiano, all I remember is that last season I was not impressed but don't recollect why I came away with that.

I just realized that he is from Harvard, we can ASSume the kid is very smart. So that he can start to MASTER Technique and become productive.

Personally now that pads came on and Shon was consider a failure. I think he will be cut and a wasted 3rd round pick by the Sashi.

Desmond Harrison is the guy I think will become the surprise ASSET! Oh its just hope right now but he is not seen and he was getting a lot of positive feedback and coaching was put on him with a reason that he was more than worthwhile so I have a good feeling on the kid.

We can hopefully see a lot of battles during Hard knocks.

Please anyone with Film please add it hear.

Anyone with an opinion and No its not about if I'm right or wrong just let us all know what your opinions are. OL is very important.

The good news is that Bitonio has gotten good feedback all be it one day!

What do you all think?

I think it was stupid to waste time with Joel at anything but LT. Everyone knew that was an obvious, easy and good fit. Why the hell did they wait so long?

Cause he was a known commodity at LG and a pro Bowler there.

I don't know where you get "OBVIOUS" Its still not obvious as he only has one day of camp there. It just might be the right thing and a positive.

And got news for you. 3 days into training camp is AMPLE time for him to be named LT and be ready by our 1st game. Its not wasted time for OL OTC is meaningless.

I hope Joe being a good friend will afford him help that wouldn't be given to others.

Stupid is not what had happened. Training camp just started and getting him in there is just good timing not stupid.

jmho

Its still early in training camp.

You have to get different OL combos on the field to find the best 5.

It was obvious to many that Shon Coleman was never going to be a legit. option at LT.

I don't believe the answer to the position is on our roster at the present time. I believe we'll just use the body that looks as close to the part as we have and address the position next year.

It's too early for me to make a ton of predictions on the OL. I have a few thoughts, but those will obviously change as I see these guys play more.

I think only one thing is certain. That is, this year's OL is not as strong as last year's. Bitonio is not going to be as good at LT as Joe was and I seriously doubt that Corbett will be as good as Bitonio at LG.

A few thoughts:

--I think Bitonio will do okay at LT. However, I would not be shocked to see the Browns bring in another LT if they can find one.

--I can't comment on Corbett because I don't ever recall watching him play.

--Our center and RG are the same from last year, so nothing new here.

--RT is interesting. Coleman was pretty good when he could get physical, but he missed some assignments and his lateral movement hurt in pass pro. I have a lot of family members and friends who are huge Steeler fans. They tell me that Hubbard was more effective inside than he was outside. I don't really remember him, so I can't say anything else about him.

The OL is certainly one of the main groups to watch closely this preseason and as the season unfolds.

With the shuffling of JB out to the tackle position, and the insertion of AC, I am hopeful it results in a better overall line. The shuffling of o-linemen the Pats did a couple of seasons ago is my benchmark. After they did that, their line seemed to gel well.

Having AC between two vets will help with the learning of the system, and provide enough support that he will be able to get into a groove.

As always, in the TC time hope springs eternal.

The good news thus far: Hubbard has sounded very solid

I am concerned about Zeitler's injury and the switching of LT, but at this piont there's no other option

The Corbett pick was confusing to say the least.

I was anticipating Conner Williams who went to the Cowboys at 50.

no matter how you slice it the oline is more question ???? than certinity.
I think with the shuffling of bodies i would expect more 2 TE sets to help the OTs out.
the problem now is that you cant afford a injury to Bitonio.
the left side is now the weakest area on the football team.
Robinson might surprise. can Wylie produce a miracle??
Drango is just soft.
i think the.future LT is still.a year away.

Like tackling (or missing tackles, as we have seen), the bigger half of blocking is wanting to do it. I hope Bitonio's eager to do it. This makes his spot weaker and LT weaker as well IMO.

Hope to see him handle it out there.

based on Garrett's synopsis, Bitonio is still just as good at LT. That's good early news

With Robinson the only tape we need to watch is his pro tape. I suppose something might happen and we somehow unlock the potential he had when he was drafted, but Ii doubt it.

All in all I think we have a pretty good group as starters, and a couple of quality inside back-up's in Drango and Reiter. Drango can even press to a tackle position and not get totally punked.

A few of the others might be OK...it will be interesting to see.

I suspect this position group will be especially targeted with waiver wire transactions once camp cut start to happen. A few of these guys will make the team, be for only a few days once Dorsey sees who is being cut off other teams.

I think this was actually THE PLAN. See if Coleman/Bitonio was better than Bitonio/Corbett. They now have their answer.

I agree. I read somewhere, yesterday or the day before, that Cameron Erving has worked is way into the starting C roll in KC. If he can figure it out, maybe Robinson can as well. Or not.

Thats so wierd ...

Last week i went to the Chefs board and they were saying how bad Erving was at C ... but they were holding out hope that whatever clicked in Shon Colemans head that allowed him to work his way into our LT job could happen with Erving ... ...

If Erving or Robinson were drafted in the 4th Rd, they'd be talked about as success-stories rather than reclamation-projects.

The title of this thread is OL, so my opinion.

New theory (for me) started about a month ago, that Offensive lines aren't really as important as they used to be. It's all about the Qb, and getting the ball out of his hands quickly.

edit: I think I mis expressed my feeling on the OL's across the NFL in 2018.

It would be better if I'd said, the OL is going to work itself out, and what has lost its importance is the thinking that some combination is going to be more effective than another.

Or that the battle for the perfect combination of addressing each individual position on the OL is going to result in some super effective group that outperforms what any other combination might have done.

I mean, I think the OL is going to work itself out and even if they aren't as good it's not going to matter as much

Exactly. The OL is going to be mediocre to below average no matter who they put in, Not a team strength this year because of growing pains.

So To Fret, is unproductive as we watch this work itself out.

I guessing that you're new here. Welcome to the board.

OK GC.

In the 2016 playoffs the Atlanta Falcons used an OL in on the DL.

With the injury to Tevon Coley along with so many others, What Browns OL would provide the most upside to fill in on the interior D-line for a few snaps, in run support.

Pfft. It can't be the also injured Zeitler.

You forgot to use purple.

garett aside, there is immediate net downside in my opinion. I get best talent for greater need, but I do think we net out weakened on the left. Best of luck to all involved. With the upgrades, the needs are standing out more clearly.

Go, Browns! Make it work!

I’m feeling pretty optimistic about the move of Bitonio and the insertion of Corbett. I have no valid reason for it. Just blind homerism, I guess.

If it does work out, though, we are set for the line for years. JB is under contract for four more years, Corbett is here for at least that long, Zeitler has 3(?) years left on his, as does Tretter.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

So, we can offer JB a big bonus check to make him paid correctly for the position, and spread that out over a couple seasons. So no cap death. Am I thinking right?

j/c

I'll be honest, I gave Shon Coleman about 5% chance to be the LT ... I just don't think he's a very good player. Backup material.

I currently give Bitonio a 50/50 shot

IMO, the long term solution will be: Bitonio back to LG, Corbett at Center, and we draft a LT next season (it's a good class)

I really haven't looked closely at next years class of LT's yet, but I knew this year there was very slim pickings at the position. I fully understood the position that put this FO in.

From my perspective this FO directed their efforts at upgrading positions of need where they felt there were options available to do so. LT certainly wasn't one of those positions.

next year's draft is strong on DT/DE and OL ... so IMO, that was part of the reason we passed on Chubb and LT

An early look , guys to keep an eye on in the College ranks.

Name College Height | Weight
Greg Little Mississippi 6-6 | 325
Trey Adams Washington 6-8 | 331
Jonah Williams Alabama 6-5 | 301
Mitch Hyatt Clemson 6-5 | 305
David Edwards Wisconsin 6-7 | 319
Prince Tega Wanagho Auburn 6-7 | 307
Isaiah Prince Ohio State 6-7 | 310
Andre Dillard Washington State 6-5 | 305
Bobby Evans Oklahoma 6-5 | 299
Michael Deiter Wisconsin 6-6 | 321

Thanks for the heads up water.

what worries me is that Bitonio now has to change his weight to play LT and he doesnt sound excited to play LT to.boot.
he hasnt played LT in 4 yrs.
this isnt a automatic seemless transition for him.
if i recall wasnt Dorsey hit and miss drafting olineman in Kansas City?
i think Eric Fisher is a bust out there.
if Botonio goes down the left side is in real big trouble

Agreed. I think the plan is to have the guys compete....try different combos....find the best combination and get them reps together heading into the 3rd preseason game. Until then i'm not gonna sweat any OL shuffles that occur.

Smart to see this stuff BEFORE injuries happen. The Shuffle on OL has been a tradition here.

Want to see some of these guys.

Joel is Joe Thomas approved so I think he will do fine. I also think Joe will do everything he can to make sure his buddy is ready to go.

The dark horse for me is Spencer because I thought he did pretty decent filling in after Joe got hurt.

Is that true? I haven't read that.

You have been around olinemen enough to know that from now,until the end of the season,it is extremely rare for a guy to gain weight.
I assume that is what he is talking about,because it almost impossible for a guy to get taller or grow longer arms.

I was just wondering why Bitonio had to "change" his weight? Is he saying he has to get heavier or lighter? I just haven't read about it. I'm genuinely curious.

my assumption would be he'd have to trip down a bit right?

Bitonio is about what 318 320 now.
i was talking to ex Brown Darnell Sanders the other day and I asked him about Bitonio moving to LT how drastic is it....he said Joel should be around 305 to 310
he said its easier making a transition from tackle to guard.

I guess that is what he's saying. I'm just wondering if it's true?

Bitonio weighs 315 lbs. Joe Thomas was 312. Andrew Whitworth is 333 lbs. The dude for the Steelers is 320 lbs. Nate Solder is 320 lbs. Eric Decker is 315 lbs.

I don't see why Bitonio has to adjust his weight?

FWIW
The Browns site has him at 6-4 and 305.
I found this interesting,Corbett is 6-4 and 306,pretty much a carbon copy.
They also have the rookie QB at 6-1.
Only if he's wearing 3/4"cleats.

Yeah, I just read that.

I don't think he'll have to either gain or lose weight, but I could be wrong.

I don't think much should change on the weight front.

Also this is still written in pencil. I think this will be our OL going into the season. I hope Corbett is who our Scouts and Dorsey think he is.

We would want all our OL to have less fat regardless of position Why I stated weight should not be an issue. Its pure and simple. How long will Joel take to perfect his kick drag. Will he emulate Joe Thomas' shot put stance that is going to be the first thing I will look at.

Oh Vers...there is nobody in the NFL like Joe Thomas, so its something I just do not expect.

If Joel does good this will eliminate desperation in our next years draft. If the right guy is there where we pick or if we wish to move up for the right guy so be it.

It makes me sigh as we had Joe Thomas for 11 seasons and no QB worthy to make it a big difference...smh

Thank yo so much Joe.

Well not a bad thing. And as for the 2 TE set, I think we will see it but only cause of Devalve, Njoku and Fells in our passing game not in the chip block.

It was already mentioned by Wilie in a presser which I might be the only one to listen too cause it is boring as heck for the mainstream fan...lol

He stated about getting the RB there for the chip block as a possible necessity.

Got to run thank you for the input and we got something to look at in this Hard knocks thing...right it starts today...I know I put it in to record the entire series.

Going Golfing hopefully not for the last time this season.

I read an article (on my phone so I didn't get a chance to post it)that Robinson has been moved to the 2nd team LT and Shon moved to 2nd team RT. Appearently Hus has said he likes what he has seen from Robinson. We all get the chance Thursday.

If Robinson can get back to the level of his draft status, it would be a tremendous boon to the team. Fingers crossed.

dont be surprised if Coleman gets cut
he really has no value at this moment

basically he did

A player that can be maybe league average at both tackle positions and has starting experience (on a rookie contract) is very valuable. Greg Robinson is the player with no value.

So just who in this organization thought Shon could be a starting LT in this League ???

The guy is entering his 3rd year in the league after playing LT effectively in college - and he was injured for all but one week his rookie year. Many players don't really get it until their 3rd year. It appears that he isn't going to cut it or get it...but it would have been foolish to not take a look early in camp to see what he may have to offer after another off-season and coming into year 3.

Reports I've read say he has had many good moments...but is too inconsistent to be a starter right now (maybe forever). No way to know that until the pads come on.

Like with TT and Baker...they have handled this position just like they should.

Wrong Coleman. This is about Shon - this is an OL thread

Unless a person is looking to assign blame and attack another individual, the reasonable explanation is that it was a group decision.

Long after the players are gone, the coaches [and w/teams like ours] FO personnel are discussing the individual positions and the players that can fit into those positions of need. I just coached high school and we spent countless hours evaluating our personnel in order to improve our team. You move guys around. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn't. But, the key is you don't know if you don't try it.

Coleman played LT in college. He was horrid last year at RT. A lot of people on here really liked how he played. Many said he would do better at LT than RT because he was used to it. I doubted he could play LT because I thought his lateral movement was too slow. But, you really don't know for sure until you try.

I think it was a reasonable move after the team failed to sign Solder in FA. I get why they tried Coleman there and left Bitonio at LG.

I also applaud the team for not wasting too much time in identifying the problems Coleman was having and taking quick, decisive action on correcting that problem.

Let's face it.............you don't lose Joe "Freaking" Thomas and expect to progress w/out a hiccup.

What do I think? Hmm, I think it's too early to consider Shon a bust.....

But we'll see I guess.

We lost Joe Thomas ... one of the all time greats ...

I was afraid when Shon was the LT ... we had to try ... as u pointed out it was a failure and we moved on toot sweet ...

I’m very curious to see how Joel does ... ill never ever compare him to Joe ... i just want competence ... if we get that ... i’ll Be THRILLED ...

Now LG is also a concern ... i hope they hit on this Corbett kid ....

Yes, no doubt there are a lot of question marks moving forward.

I think Shon's done. I'm kinda mad that the Browns didn't take my suggestion to draft Quention Nelson at #4 and move Bitionio to tackle. But I have a lot of faith in Corbett.

I love Nelson ... hes a great kid and will be an outstanding leader with a great work ethic ...

But we needed Ward more ... as much as I’d love to have Nelson ... Ward was way more important and press shut down corners are really hard to come by ... when u have a shot at someone u think may be one ... u gotta take it ...

The difference between him and Joe is that with Joel you get the L :-P

I hope Bitonio is a stud since LT obviously a bit more valuable than G, but it's hard to believe anyone EVER will replace Thomas.

That can never be the criteria, or you'll never have any consistency at LT.

Joe Thomas was one of the finest LT of all time. You can't expect "the next guy" to also be that. It's just not reasonable.

However, other teams win, and have even won Super Bowls, without Joe Thomas. They are able to help and compensate for any weakness (especially compared to Joe) they might have at the position. This is now what the Browns must do. It will take talent along the rest of the OL, (which I think we have) and scheme.

Normally I stay as far away from you as possible ; But these words coming out of YOUR mouth are just to much !

.. " Unless a person is looking to assign blame and attack another individual, "

Have a nice day

thats the.thing some people dont see with the Browns.
with Dorsey at the helm they have to hit on most of their draft picks because they have hit very little on draft picks in the last 10 years.
they cant afford to merely get a starter.they need to draft guys that can dominate their position and be difference makers

And how is different than most GMs that have come here ?

its different cause the culture of losing gets worse and worse especially coming off a awesome 1 31 campeign.
Dorsey has the hardest job of any prior GM employed.
more losing equals losing a fanbase.
anyone thats 25 years and under have never experienced a winning Browns season.
Sissy Brown and George the Farmer have really gotten this franchise in a deep hole that Dorsey will have get out of with hitting on most of his draft picks

You asked a question and I gave a very sound answer for what occurred. If you were not guilty of looking to assign blame and attack another individual, than that comment should not have been relevant.

Just sayin'.

Have a nice day, sport.

By Iluvmyxstripper above:



Let’s say a play-off win.

Last Browns’ playoff win was against the Patriots on New Year’s Day 1995.

Well, 23 2/3 years ago.

Wow.

I was there ...

Unfortunately, that win is a rumor, not a legend.

Let's get back in that race this year if we are able.

Go, Browns!

I feel real bad for Browns fans who have seen nothing but losing...I'm old fart, I remember Jim Brown running wild and beating guys up with his forearm, Ernie Green was good, and Leroy Kelly after Jim was great....and I danced in yard when we beat Colts- as underdogs we smoked them....yet my wish remains- a Super Bowl, love to win it, but just getting to it would be great.....OL, we got lots of question marks now, but some talent AND we didn't have Joe Thomas much last year, so guys know it's them and no JT is coming back to save them, next man up....GO Browns!!!

I was HOPING more than "THOUGHT" Hope was that he was uncomfortable at RT cause he was LT as a college player. But nah he just is not quick enough with his footwork to be a good OT in pass pro. Now his Run blocking showed a little nasty in him.

Cutting him...I would like to see him at RG before cutting him. right now Drango is our backup everywhere. But I think Coleman could actually start at RG, he just has been labeled at Tackle but he could have a future at RG. Unfortunately probably on his next team.

I think Coleman will still be an exceptional RT, I just don't think he has the scoots for the left.

I think it would be dumb to cut Coleman. I wasn't as high on him as you guys were, but he doesn't suck. He may have a future at RT or RG.

very worst, he can be a backup G/T. That has value still

I agree, he AT LEAST is a solid depth chart guy if needed in a pinch. And for a 3rd round pay, ill take it.

I always hated the idea of cutting young guys unless we had players who were better. It has been such a Browns move to cut players without a plan. You cut the backend of your roster not the middle.

You're not wrong, but I think we might end up doing just that with our Oline. IMO, we have a logjam of "depth" as far as offensive linemen. A handful of "solid depth" type guys, when we should only carry a couple during the season.

This is not ideal:



https://twitter.com/ScottPetrak/status/1029095803413966849

We don't have an ideal scenario.

In his post-practice presser, Hue just said that Bitonio is still our #1 LT. We also apparently had a bit of confrontation between Todd Haley and Gregg Williams that Hue had to intercede in after Mayfield took a minor hit. If they ever go full Gilbride-Ryan, my money's on Williams.

I think practice/camp is the best place to try and figure out who can play where and how efficient they can be. I'm good with this if they get the line solidified and gelled.

I think it's dumb we're even making contact with the QB. They wear the special colored jerseys for a reason.

Grossi says a guy was knocked into him, so it may have been inadvertant.

Lol, good ole' Mike.

I forget what video/where, but Myles had made contact with a QB in practice. Building the Browns or something. We're on TV and the internet all over right now.

I think Todd is seeing his QB get touched/hit/contact maybe not "often", but one time is one time too many. A QB injury from a hit in practice from our OWN team member would likely... I don't know what it would do. I think I would not pay attention to this team for awhile out of pure anger.

Apparently Haley went off on the defense, said "Good teams don't do that (hit their own QB)!" and Williams shot back with "Then block us!".

I heard on 92.3 and I think it's utterly ridiculous. I heard a "F" bomb in the quote the radio said via Haley though. Stupid problem to be having/talking about/etc. Stupid... our practices must be pretty unorganized.

I hate Williams play calling, and sometimes his arrogance.. but he has some classic witty one liners.. lmao

j/c:

Some might not want to hear it, but Haley is an abrasive SOG.

With that said, I don't think is all that unusual. It's training camp. Stuff like this happens.

I think you're exactly right. This stuff happens in every camp, probably daily. The thing is, it's now being publicized.

I think GW and Haley are both abrasive SOG's. It was bound to happen and will probably happen more than once.

You're right. I thought about that after I posted it. LOL

I just hope our defense can actually get to the other teams QBs too

j/c:

I said this in another thread in the Game Day forum, but it fits better here:



I think the OL is in a state of flux. Thus, I believe we are trying different combinations and moving guys around at certain positions.

I think that is just as it should be. I'd rather us experiment now than during the midst of the season.

It would have been great had Coleman worked out at LT. It will be great if Robinson works out at LT.

I have no proof, but I have a hunch it'll be Bitonio at LT to open the season. And I wouldn't rule out Drango at LG.

It's hot, they've been smashing on each other for weeks. Stuff happens.

I wouldn't rule out Coleman at LG either.

Bitonio is about the only guy most of us thought could play LT in JT's retirement thread. It would be awesome if Robinson could win that job and our Pro Bowl Guard stays put and is injury depth at LT.

I agree w/all of that. I was thinking of adding Coleman's name in there, but didn't want to get slammed. LOL

Robinson was third string against the Giants, at LT I assume, but not sure. I did see him on the field, blocking for Roback. I wouldn't be surprised if Roback makes our PS. He didn't look awful.

We should trade him to the Giants because their second string QB looked horrible.

There aren't many teams carrying four QBs.

Not even with a young guy on PS?

I don't think so. Most teams only carry two QBs on the active roster these days.

I think that we'll actually keep 3 QB, and that would make it really hard to keep a 4th on the PS, unless he is really, really impressive.

Obviously Tyrod and Baker are locks, and so is Stanton as the sideline sounding board for Mayfield. Barring some truly horrible event, I cannot see this team opening the season without all 3 on the roster.

Thanks, guys.

Drango lacks that mean streak in him to be effective.
he comes out of his stance way too slow

I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade for an experienced OLineman or pickup a free agent. Jeff Allen who played for Dorsey at KC is still unsigned and so is ex OSU player Alex Boone.

We definitely keep 3 QBs IMO .. no way we're going into the Pittsburgh game w/just Baker as a backup

We surely need help on the OL.
Corbett needs to work his way into the starting lineup or that pick will be a HUGE bust.

Would this be considered jumping the gun?

No, it isn't jumping the gun. If Corbett isn't starting by week 8 it was a wasted pick and we'd have to cut his ass and move on.

Is that sarcasm, bro?

Is that a serious question?

Serious answer: sarcasm.

J/C .....

He played a lot of the 1st preseason game, as did Drango.

This site says each played 53 snaps, and Coleman, Reiter, and Robinson each played 45.

I am interested to see how Harrison does at LT. The team has liked him all throughout the off-season. Then injury struck ..... so he's up in the air again.

I see only 6 "sure things" on the OL, and these are Bitonio, Corbett, Tretter, Zeitler, Hubbard, and Drango. Beyond that, it's still wide open as far as I can see.

Lots to sort out between now and the 1st real game.

I'm sorry because I wasn't clear. I was talking about seeing him play in college.

Ah. Mibad. I misread it.

They are playing Corbett a lot with ones and twos as to get him in shape and get him under the gun to learn quick.

I don't understand the questions of him starting, I thought he is starting at LG. Did we decide to play Robinson at LT and move Bitonio back at LG? the weak link right now is Drango at RG...we need Zeitler back. Hopefully by the game #3.

I believe most of us will have our eye glued on the OL come Friday .. All I saw in game one was the Giants pushing them back a couple of yards on most plays ( running )..

Would like to hear an up-date on Zietler and Coley injury's ?

If the first pick of the second round is a backup OL, then the pick is a HUGE bust. I am not jumping the gun.

You are jumping the gun. Goodness.

I agree with him ... hes not jumping the gun .... dudes not even starting to get in the blocks yet much less being in a position to be ready for the gun to go off ... he’s not even ready for the gun .... he’s not far enough along in the process too be jumping the gun ... *LOL* ....

I can't watch the OL seriously while watching a game...just maybe a replay here and there to see what happened.
But if I want to look it over. I would have to key on one OL play after play including stop and go and then back again. Then off to the next guy from the beginning. Don't have the gumption in my for that...did in the past...lol

I had my reservations on the pick simply cause we didn't state WHY we took him and WHERE we were looking to play him. As for his talent I really am clueless on him to make a decision. But I don't like using the first pick of the 2nd round for a "versatile" OL that tells me he isn't good enough to start anywhere cause versatile in OL speak means depth only.

tab, there was a report the other day that said Robinson was working w/the 1s at LT and Bitonio was at LG.

I don't know if that is a permanent move or just them looking at different combinations.

I'm voting for just testing the water. Joel will indeed be, IMO, our starting LT.

I don't know the answer, but I think you are right.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/CLE/cleveland-browns

Robinson saw some reps at left tackle with the first-team offense during Monday's practice, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.

Regardless of Monday's practice, coach Hue Jackson said Joel Bitonio remains the team's starting left tackle, and that the team was just working on different offensive-line combinations. Robinson is still expected to begin the season in a reserve lineman role.

Thanks if Robinson works out that can be a tremendous and I mean tremendous out come for the Browns. The kid has amazing talent this brings us to Corbett more n more on WHY, for a #6 OLman, you don't utilize the first pick in the 2nd round for that. Its ok, as long as we keep these mistakes if a mistake to a minimum. You never know how it will work out in the future. I just don't like #33 taken on an interior OLman without having a definite plan for him. 33 for Interior has to be close to Pro Bowler in OL investments.

But if Robinson can man the position LT, this would be amazing for us!

Can the Cleveland Browns successfully replace this Coleman without completely losing him?

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/can_the_cleveland_browns_succe.html

By Doug Lesmerises, cleveland.com dlesmerises@cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- One up, one down, one starting, one maybe gone.

Austin Corbett and Shon Coleman were separated by five lockers inside FirstEnergy Stadium after the Browns second preseason game Thursday night and heading opposite ways.

Does it have to be this way with the Browns, every success story matched by a failure?

Receiver Rashard Higgins has impressed this camp, but Corey Coleman was dumped. The fact that Corbett has seized a starting job at left guard, his rise necessitated by Shon Coleman losing his starting spot at left tackle and Joel Bitonio sliding from guard to tackle, does that mean this Coleman is also done in Cleveland?

Corbett, the rookie second-round pick from Nevada with a tattoo of an eagle and his last name on his right upper back, improved ten-fold from the preseason opener to what he showed Thursday. He consistently sealed off blocks in the run game and looked for work in pass protection, without glaring failures of misunderstanding.

The father of his best friend texted after the game to give him a hard time, and Corbett laughed because he knew he improved. Can a 22-year-old glow after a preseason game?

He's figuring out, admitting he's finally dispatching the tackle thinking of his college days (he started 49 games at left tackle at Nevada) and getting in guard mode. He had to.

The Browns need him. They really need him.

"They need the best person they can get, whether that's you or someone else," Corbett said. "That's the nature of the game we play. I'm doing everything I can to make sure I'm one of those guys at the end of the day. You've got to have that mindset where you get locked into a position and you never let go."

Coleman did let go, the starting left tackle job that was handed to him by the retirement of Joe Thomas ripped away by Hue Jackson early in camp. Jackson didn't like what he saw and acted quickly to shift Bitonio and promote Corbett. Coleman went from first-team left tackle to second-team right tackle and could fall further still.

The Browns signed former No. 2 overall pick Greg Robinson in June and have worked undrafted free agent Desmond Harrison at second-team tackle as well. Coleman was old coming out of Auburn, so entering his third NFL season he's already 26. But he started all 16 games at right tackle a year ago. Chris Hubbard is locked into the right tackle job now, and Bitonio-Corbett is working on the left side.

So maybe this is progress - a starter one year is in danger of not making the team the next, because maybe the Browns are that much better.

They clearly aren't waiting on Coleman.

"If you want the job, whatever job you want, you have to go get it," Jackson said of Coleman on Sunday. "You have to work at it. We have to play the best players. It's all about performance. It is not about somebody's feelings or any of that. This is a performance-based business, and Shon understands that. If he wants the job back, he has to go back and earn it."

Baker Mayfield got blown up on a sack behind the second team Thursday on a miscommunication that looked like Coleman's fault, as he disengaged with a defender to pick up an outside blitzer that running back Nick Chubb was ready to handle. The player Coleman let go then buried the Browns No. 1 pick.

But playing with a second-team line that clearly struggled, Coleman wasn't a glaring weakness every play. Another blitzer flushed Mayfield in the fourth quarter after shooting past Coleman, but when engaged, Coleman wasn't constantly losing individual matchups.

It's not hard to see Coleman as the odd man out here, if the Browns believe more in Robinson and Harrison as their tackle depth. Coleman's status as a previous starter or third-round pick in 2016 won't matter.

Is Coleman concerned about making the roster?

"No, I don't even worry about that," he told me after Thursday's game. "I worry about what I can do on the field."

Maybe the ship is sailing on another Coleman on Cleveland, but in an ideal world, I think the Browns would need both Corbett and Coleman. Yes, this rookie looks ready. But yes, this former starter who's only in year three, he's still worth something, too.

"I know I'm a guy that has a lot of ability, and obviously I can play both sides at tackle," Coleman said. "My big thing is just doing whatever the team needs me to do."

He doesn't sound like a guy following the Corey Coleman plan, as shown on Hard Knocks, of asking for a trade after a demotion to second team. He still can be needed, even after losing a starting job.

"I'm guessing so," Coleman said. "I'm still developing. I've got a lot of room for improvement. But at this point, I'm just trying to get better and let things fall in place however they may fall in place."

As the Browns clearly improve their starting talent, depth, especially on both lines, remains an issue.

So let Corbett serve as an answer.

"Come week one, I'm going to make sure that my name is coming out in that first starting five," Corbett said.

But I'm hoping Coleman can provide an answer about depth as a former starter worth keeping rather than as another former failed high pick sent packing.

"I know I can show a lot more," Coleman said, "by just developing into that player that I envision myself being."

Finding a success story without packaging it with a failure? That's when you'll know the Browns are headed somewhere.

I'm not really sure I understand why this is even a question. The NFL has a 53 man roster. Only so many players are kept in any one position group. When you find a better player to take a starting position, another player from that position group will drop from the roster.

Coleman was terrible at RT last year. Terrible. Corbett making the roster means someone on the OL will not have a position this year. That may or may not be Coleman. I've seen nothing from Coleman that will insure him a roster spot so anything could happen there.

Having someone that stays healthy and plays a 1/4 of a season is already replacing Corey lol.

Austin Corbett ‘wants to be great,’ just like the familiar face he’s tasked with replacing

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/aus...-tasked-with-re


Austin Corbett and Joel Bitonio have quite a few similarities.

Both played left tackle in college at Nevada, where they were first-team All-Mountain West Conference selections. They were each taken by the Browns in the second round of their NFL Draft; Corbett was picked 33rd in his draft class, Bitonio was the 35th pick. They have now each played left guard in the NFL.

Although they played under two different head coaches at Nevada, they have some things in common with their playing style, too. All of this earned them a collective nickname from their fellow linemen: “the twins.”

“Their sets are almost identical,” center JC Tretter said. “Which we laugh about in the meeting room. They’re both great guys and they’re both hard workers. As football players, they’re similar in how they move and how they play. ”


Of course, Corbett has modeled his game after Bitonio’s. He took over for Bitonio at tackle when Bitonio graduated. Corbett had the tall task of replacing an all-conference left tackle.

And four years later, he’s replacing Bitonio again. With the departure of future Hall of Fame left tackle Joe Thomas, Bitonio was bumped outside to left tackle and Corbett was elevated to first-team left guard.

It’s tough to master footwork and co-existence with a new left guard during games and live reps, so Tretter, Bitonio and Corbett work together in meetings and film rooms to understand each other better on the field. Corbett is an intelligent player, which makes life easy for Tretter. Corbett hears something from Tretter one time and picks it up. He knows what to do.

Those football smarts translate to a better understanding of his teammates. Corbett is known to pick the veterans’ brains, study film and work hard. A simple recipe, yes, but one that can often equate to success on the field. It’s not just on-field etiquette, though. Corbett talks to Tretter and Bitonio about off-days, film breakdowns and game preparation.

“He’s one of the guys who wants to be great,” Tretter said.


As hard as it is to work on things in live situations, Corbett is excited for more reps in a game. The third preseason game is looked at as a “dress rehearsal,” giving Corbett valuable time to gel with his line-mates.

“I have just been trying to pick one of two things a day to work on and just carry it over every day,” he said. “Playing these two games and now coming up with this third preseason game, we are going to have the opportunity to get a lot of reps with our first group. That will be good just to play with them in that real live situation and do so in an extended way.”

He’s making progress, but he’s not there yet. Corbett’s just a rookie and he only has less than a full game worth of action under his belt in his NFL career. The similarities to Bitonio are striking, but Corbett isn’t quite there yet.

“Joel was a Pro-Bowl guard, so I’m not going to bump Corbett up there yet until he gets there. But as it comes to working, strength and power, they’re very similar,” Tretter said.

“Corbett has all the tools to accomplish what Joel’s been able to accomplish.”

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#Browns coach Hue Jackson on if he's noncommittal about the starters on the left side of the O-line because he's thinking about starting rookie LT Desmond Harrison: "I think all of those avenues are open."

What would that entail then? Obviously Joel needs to be on the field, we move him to RT or something because Corbritt seems to be suited at LG?

I don't know.

Corbett on the bench probably.

How about we just play the guys where they've been practicing most of camp?

because he's thinking about starting rookie LT Desmond Harrison: "I think all of those avenues are open."

he must of been on the toilet when he thunk that cause it was a total BRAIN FART.

Besides I think that might be an old thought dug up by a writer. Harrison in no way is ready???

Somebody else said in another forum, Harrison has a future as an LT. He hasn't been tested under game conditions enough at this point, he is still raw. The talent is there, give him time to develop and at some point, Joel goes back to LG. Probably takes the whole season. That's fine.

I think we don't trust Corbett yet. He was in the game an awful long time last night. He gets beat too frequently laterally right now to trust IMO.

I think we might want Harrison - Bitonio - Tretter - Zeitler - Hubbard

I love Corbett's ability to pull, and think that he'll be hugely important in the run game.

I don't see us starting Harrison, at least not yet.

I commented on Harrison in the Postgame Thoughts thread. I thought he played well.

I don't know we'll make this move, but we would be stronger if Harrison can pull it off because Bitonio would shift back to LG.

I have to say that no matter what they decide, I feel more comfortable about the OL than I did before camp started. I like how they have moved guys around to find the best 5.

Corbett is improving but he has been late on some assignments when pulling. At some point, a left side of Harrison and Bitonio has the potential of being better than a Bitonio/Corbett left side.

Anyone know what Harrison was suspended for while at Texas?

I've heard some rumblings about Corbett at Center eventually. It is what it is.

Did Corbett play center at all in camp?

Not to my knowledge.

A quick google check shows a series of "team rules violations". Rather cryptic. One article speculated about failing a drug test but offered no proof, while another said something about omitting an online course when submitting transcripts. Charlie Strong was the head coach who kicked him off the team. Charlie has a reputation for insisting on high moral character from his players. It could be as simple as a 3 strikes policy; no major incident, but a series of minor incidents that crossed a threshold.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything either. Weird.

I don't think now is the time to shuffle the OL any further.

The only thing that would make sense to me, as a person who has no inside information, would be to move Bitonio back inside and start Harrison. Moving guys to spots that they haven't practiced at seems like a recipe for disaster.

Thats how I see it shaking out, though there is not a need to hurry Harrison before he is ready to swim. He barly even got his feet wet.

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#Browns trade OT Shon Coleman to 49ers for a 2019 7th round pick

adios Shon ... looks like Harrison makes it

The future might be now, concerning Harrison...

From the Browns website:

The Browns could be retooling offensive line once more as the season opener fast approaches.

Head coach Hue Jackson suggested Cleveland might change up the unit after moving veteran left guard Joel BItonio to left tackle earlier this month.

“I think what I’m doing is as I said before, I want to look at everything and make sure the best five guys out there based on all of the information from preseason games, practices and what I think is best for our football team. I’m just evaluating it all,” Jackson said Friday on a conference call following the team’s 35-17 win over the Lions. “When it’s all said and done, my job is that we put the best five guys out there, and that’s what we are going to do.”


The Browns moved Bitonio, a four-year starter at left guard, to left tackle toward the beginning of training camp to fill the void left by future Hall-of-Famer Joe Thomas, who retired in March following 11 seasons and 10 Pro Bowls. In Bitonio’s place, Cleveland started rookie Austin Corbett, the 33rd overall pick in the draft.


With a date against the Pittsburgh Steelers in nine days, Jackson said the Browns will take a long hard look at the group, including potentially moving Bitonio back to left guard and starting rookie Desmond Harrison, an undrafted free agent, at left tackle. Harrison started Thursday’s preseason finale in Detroit after missing much of training camp with a toe injury.

Jackson said he’s comfortable reconfiguring the lineup so close to the start of the season

“I feel pretty good about where we’re headed. I think you guys are asking for concrete answers today, and I’m not ready to do that,” he said. "I feel good about where we are, where we’re headed and the players who we have playing there. I just want to make sure that we're not turning in the lineup cards today or to say who is starting or anything like that. I just want to make sure that it’s a decision, when it’s all said and done, that I’m good with it all and that I’m not going to change two days from now or three days from now.”

— Josh Gordon will return to practice this week as the Browns prepare for Pittsburgh. Jackson said the star wide receiver will participate in as much as possible as he continues to nurse a minor hamstring injury. “I think it will be a little bit more than limited but not totally, totally full go,” he said. “He’ll definitely get into the route running part of it, catching balls and being with the offense a lot more than what he has been.” Gordon returned to the team earlier this month after a leave of absence to focus on his recovery from addiction.

— In the coming days, the Browns will curate their roster from 90 members to 53. Thursday’s night game against Detroit marked the final opportunity for players hoping to earn a spot on the team to impress Jackson and the front office. “Last night, I took the opportunity to thank all of our players that spent training camp with us. They all worked extremely hard and tried to do everything that we asked them to do,” he said. “Unfortunately, there is only room for 53 on the roster and another 10 on the practice squad. That is just how it works in the National Football League.”


— Jackson said the Browns will have to make “tough decisions” when it comes to tight end Seth DeValve and fullback Danny Vitale, who have both missed substantial time with injuries. “We have to do what we think is best short term and long term for the organization,” he said. “Those guys have been players who have played football here and contribute, but obviously, they haven't been out there on the field with the team and been able to practice. I think that availability is really important, especially as we start heading into the season.” DeValve, who enters his third season with the team, caught 33 passes for 395 yards and a touchdown last year. Vitale has played in 24 games, starting nine, in two seasons.

j/c:

It's obvious they like Harrison:


https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/1035597898963148805


https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/1035501074998804481


https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/1035501479484968960

High praise from Zegura

And he has his ears to the ground in Berea, obviously.

Kyle Shanahan is an IDIOT!

I understand what you are saying and I am not claiming they should make the move.

I just see it this way.

--Harrison stood out last night. In a good way.

--We have to ask ourselves, is the OL better w/Bitonio at LT and Corbett at LG or w/Harrison at LT and Bitonio at LG?

--I don't know the answer to the above question, but I can tell you that both Harrison and Corbett played a lot last night. I mean.......a lot.

I get that you are making fun of people again, but San Fran's OL is really bad. They got a guy who started last year for a 7th round pick.

I'm not sure I would have made that trade if I were Cleveland. I thought a bunch of posters overrated him last year and the BS excuses about how we would be better at LT was absurd, but I think he would be a decent back-up for us. A 7th round pick is next to nothing. I would have kept him.

I think Corbett has grown by leaps and bounds as the LG. Joel B has gotten more and more comfortable in the LT role. Personally, I’d like to see them stay the course, it seems to be working quite well for the run game, and almost as good for the passing.

Not to say Harrison isn’t starter material.

You could be right. I haven't seen enough of either guy to really offer a valid opinion. Like I said, I did notice Harrison last night and mentioned it on my Post Game Thoughts post. Hell, I didn't even know his name. I just put number 69. LOL

Ham, what's crazy is both played a lot and played together a lot. I didn't realize it was a competition, but we did a lot of good things on that left side last night.

I think our OL is going to be better than I thought it was.

Hue had Corbett in for almost all of the preseason. Which, I believe got him in a lot better shape physically, and experientially. I will admit, I did try to really watch him closely during the games, because I felt that he would be the “soft spot” in the line. I am quite,pleased with his progress, though.

Harrison, I didn’t really focus on, thinking that Joel B had locked down the spot. I’ll have to see if I can find some replays to check him out.

The long TD run by Dayes, was opened by a sweet pull and seal by Corbett that made this old guard proud.

A 7th is crap for such a young former starter. We should have kept him and waited till a team had an injury.

Bye bye coleman.

Yeah, I think I would have kept him, too. I wasn't as high on Coleman as you were, but a 7th round pick is nothing.

Btw-------to clear up an earlier misconception, I would imagine that it was Lynch who engineered the trade rather than Shanny.

j/c

The Cleveland Browns are now a Coleman-less team. We went from 2 to 0 in less than 3 weeks.

Thank you, Sashi.

You say that after saying you think they should have KEPT S Coleman.



Agenda much?

Why do you constantly try and start fights w/me?

We got a 7th round pick for both guys.

We spent a first round pick on Corey and a 3rd on Shon.

I would have kept Shon, but both picks sucked ass.

So we traded up in an ironic sort of giveaway way? So does this mean we go shopping?

This 7th round stuff is just way underpriced in some folks' eyes. Is it a bargain? A ripoff? Guess that depends on which end of the stick you are holding. But the drama factor is getting dialed back. Did Hue make this call?

I don't "start" squat...Stick to football and I won't push back on your bully-tactics.

I agree that both picks didn't pan out - to their drafted slots anyway.

Neither guy was a "reach" at their slot...neither guy worked out. It happens.

Who was I bullying?

Look man.............I despise you. You despise me. I would have absolutely no problem if we ever speak again. People don't like seeing it.

Take your BS somewhere else?

Do you not recall how often you call out other posters who have a different opinion than you? And in some weird passive-aggressive way? Seriously? Then you get all hurt when someone barks back.

Once again.............who was I bullying?

Read the post right above your last.

What? I said: "Thank you, Sashi," and you called me a bully.

Dude, go away.

Here is my response to your request:

"Do you not recall how often you call out other posters who have a different opinion than you? And in some weird passive-aggressive way? Seriously? Then you get all hurt when someone barks back."

You telling another poster to "go away" only backs up the above.

LOL

Coleman was a draft pick that didn’t work out. Happens all the time in the NFL. Just another day at the office.

its just crazy that he was our starting LT heading into camp and then basically cut a month later ... the dude must have really sucked

He's being replaced by an UDFA, so it all evens out.

So, Dorsey's UDFA is better than Sashi's 3rd rounder.

Dorsey tried to sign Solder at LT and brought in guys to compete. I think Dorsey and the coaching staff knew that Coleman was unlikely to make the grade.

It sucks that he didn't pan out...but I don't think anyone in the ORG was caught off-guard by that eventuality.

Pot-stirrer!

As it is with Coleman, it is with Sashi. Just another day at the office.

We hired a new GM, moves like this should be expected.

Browns toying with another O-line shift with opener nearing
The Associated Press TOM WITHERS (AP Sports Writer),The Associated Press

CLEVELAND (AP) -- With barely a week left until the season opens, Browns coach Hue Jackson is still tinkering with his offensive line.

Another shift could be coming.

During a conference call on Friday, Jackson raised the possibility that Joel Bitonio could be on the move again. The team slid him from left guard to tackle during training camp to fill the cavern created when perennial Pro Bowler Joe Thomas retired following last season.

Jackson said Cleveland's line remains under construction just nine days before the Pittsburgh Steelers come to town.

''Everything is a little bit fluid over there, especially on the left side as we continue to move forward,'' he said. ''I am going to say this again, I am going to continue to put the best five guys out there.''

When camp opened, the Browns had Shon Coleman, who started 16 games at right tackle, lined up at left tackle. After line coach Bob Wylie said shifting Bitonio to left tackle was ''Plan Z,'' Jackson did it anyway and put rookie Austin Corbett at left guard.

That's how the Browns played their first three exhibition games, and by all accounts Bitonio held his own at a position he hadn't played since college. The reviews on Corbett, the No. 33 overall draft pick this year, were a little more mixed, and it's possible the Browns aren't satisfied with his progress.

''I think that he has done some good things,'' Jackson said when asked specifically about Corbett. ''I have always said from Day 1 that we are going to play the best five guys. How that unfolds as we go through preseason and as we go through everything, we will make a decision about what we think is best.''

The Browns did make a line move on Friday, trading Coleman to the San Francisco 49ers for a seventh-round draft pick next season. Coleman was drafted in the third round by the Browns in 2016.

Undrafted rookie Desmond Harrison started at left tackle in Thursday's exhibition finale at Detroit and Jackson said the 6-foot-6, 295-pounder could be in the mix. Harrison transferred from Texas and finished his college career at West Georgia.

''All of those avenues are open,'' Jackson said. ''I know we have seen Joel at left tackle and he has played it, and Corbett at left guard and Harrison at left tackle. When it is all said and done, my job is that we put the best five guys out there, and that is what we are going to do.''

Another option is former Arizona and Chicago lineman Earl Watford, who signed with the Browns earlier this week. Watford has appeared in 43 NFL games, making 21 starts with the Cardinals. He played both right and left guard last season.

Although things are unsettled up front, Jackson insists he's not worried.

''I feel good about where we are, where we are headed, and the players who we have playing there,'' he said. ''I just want to make sure that we are not turning in the lineup cards today or to say who is starting or anything like that. I just want to make sure that it is a decision, when it is all said and done, that I am good with it all and that I am not going to change two days from now or three days from now.''

NOTES: Cleveland began trimming its roster ahead of Saturday's deadline. The most notable cut was WR Jeff Janis, signed as a free agent in March after four years with Green Bay. Janis was passed by several of Cleveland's young receivers. Also released was fourth-string QB Brogan Roback, who got some quality time on this season's ''Hard Knocks'' series. ... Jackson said WR Josh Gordon will return to practice Monday. The former Pro Bowler missed the first three weeks of camp while receiving treatment in Florida connected to his drug and alcohol addictions. He's been slowed by a hamstring injury since being cleared by the NFL to resume all activities.



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/browns-toying-another-o-line-shift-opener-nearing-192803337--nfl.html

I might be totally wrong with the above thought process...Oh crap it was me with the "brain fart"



So far Hue has been pretty good with his evaluations. This year as HC I think we finally get to see Hue as a real HC. Not a guy wearing several hats. He has time to step back and make evaluations on Offense as well as Defense.

Man if this is a real deal. What a blessing. A functional LT from no where. The kid has amazing specs. If he can handle the technique...he actually could be a legit starter. And he's a rookie which means he will only get better. Man, can we actually be so lucky.

Shame Corbett won't start hey, can't get them all right and perfect. He is no Bum nor dead wood. But OL at 33 I would expect a starter.

Man see I've been away from being negative so long that I'm not that good at that...lol So happy. That I just might be wrong. Hope I'm wrong on Corbett as I did not like that pick from day one. What's up with Zeitler? Is he ready. If Harrison is the starter...I think Drango might take the hit as Corbett will end up being the 6th man with the new guy Earl Watford filling in at RG.

Desmond Harrison was a great pick up. I was a big fan of him this draft. Thought he was worth a 4th rounder. Physically, he's all there to play the position. Hopefully JT gets his butt down to Cleveland and helps him out. I think he could start at either LT or RT if he is dedicated to his technique.

When your football team is still trying to find their starting LT "after" the last pre-season game, the HC better be concerned.

Not a good sign for the offensive side...imo

I have a hard time thinking Coleman wasn't better than some of hte other options and shouldnve gotten more than a 7th...

We're clearly content with taking whatever though because for a 7th, it's obvious they planned on cutting him anyway.

Plus like Mac said, last preseason game gone and we still seeminly trying to put together an offensive line. Not good.

It'll be interesting to see who makes the team on the OL:

The locks appear to be ...
Bitonio
Corbett
Tretter
Zeittler
Hubbard
Harrison

Probable would be ....
Drango

Possibles would seem to be ....

Reiter
Watford
DiLaurio (who the team seems to really like)
Robinson (though if Drango and Harrison make it, it seems unlikely that Robinson would)

I see us going with 8 or 9 OL .... probably 9. I thought that Reiter might make it based on his athletic ability, and because he's a Center, but a lot of people seem to think that Corbett could move there in the future. The next 4 1/2 hours will be interesting.

I think this OL is going to surprise a lot of you. Granted, we have two qbs who hold the ball too long, but I am way more optimistic about this OL than I was during the off-season. I think it's really starting to come together.

Well, if the competition was close between Shon and G Robinson as the possible 4th Tackle, a free draft pick would tilt the scales.

Or maybe it was because his cap number was 80,000 higher than Robinson.

I't disturbing that what the NFL thinks of as pennies would take me almost two years to bring home...ugh

From where I sit, Watford has a higher probability of making the team than Drango. I think Watford was brought in as much to address Drango's deficiencies as he was to back up Corbett.

Shon Coleman will go on to be a very good guard or a starting RT for another team.

This is probably the most incorrect statement I've ever seen as a prediction on this board.

He sucked last year, sucks this year and will suck from now on.

I went back and took a look at the first half and keyed on Desmond. Early on he did get beat on a simple speed rush...its the pass in the red zone where Mayfield got hit as he threw up the middle around 15 yards to that guy Willies that hit his hand but incomplete...Lions announcers said he should have caught that. I think it was also noted by somebody as Mayfields only pass off target. Well he was hit by Harrison's rusher.

For the most part it was hard to tell cause the Lions defender seemed to alway go upfield so on almost all the runs Harrison had an easy block. He did crash down well to control the edge on runs. It seemed when he concentrated he was able to get into the chest of the pass rusher and control him. Just not sure how he will do on actual NFL starters and not just starters cause we know almost all teams best pass rusher will be there. But if they deemed Corbett not ready for prime time and Bitonio will stud out there at LG...I guess so.

Harrison did well when ever he had a chip blocker either RB or TE he moved quickly into place and the chip blocker only needed one hit. Curious now what we will decide on come game day. I am also keeping in mind the kid is a rookie and he looks Country Strong (strong without weights, naturally strong) he definitely has long arms and when he keeps his knee bend he looks pretty awesome. I think if the kids works hard and next year get into an off season program stronger and faster.
He could become the real deal.

jmho

Thanks Eo, I know I lack the technical eye to give a deep eval, to my untrained eye, he looked pretty good.

I appreciate your evaluation. Something you said did make me realize that he hasn't seen much inside rush. Most of the pass protection he's been presented with has been outside. That will be a question that needs answering.

In general, I just want to state that some concern has been expressed about tinkering with the OL in the week heading into the season opener. It is a concern but not an alarming concern. It likely means moving Bitonio back to his LG spot, Tritter and Zeitler playing in they're regular positions and Hubbard who has played reasonably well at RT. This maintains a lot of continuity on the interior of the OL. It should make the run game more effective and possibly give Taylor more field vision on pass plays.

j/c

I'm anxious to read about Harrison v Garrett in practice.

harrison might not be though

I know you're joking, D4, but Harrison should embrace that challenge. It will only make him better.

Ok, if Harrison proves good enough to allow Joel B to move back to LG, does that mean the Corbett pick was a wasted one?

If the above realignment happens, where does Corbett go? A high second seems to be a pick one wouldn’t use on a backup OL.

Just musing aloud.

yeah you're right lamp. I think using guys like Garrett in practice is a really good thing

Well, in that situation, Corbett becomes a guy who can play multiple positions, as a rookie or a year 2 player. Eventually, he will replace someone on the interior.

I've seen talk he could be a C moving forward, as J.C Tretter's contract structure shows he could be cut next year to save some cash. I think it's like a $1.5M hit, saving $4.5M.

All the talk has been about Corbett impressing as a guard, but if the situation calls for it, I've got no problem with him being a C.

The Browns also have a potential out for Kevin Zeitler following the 2019 season. I like Kevin, but I haven't seen $60M reasons to like him.

This is a good point, but I hope the Browns play the best 5 instead of the highest draft picks and highest paid.

I see NO POSSIBLE WAY that we go Harrison/Bitonio the week of the 1st game.

That's Hue talking out his Ass. AGAIN!

I can see your logic. It might not happen in week one. But the other side of it is that any decision won't be made in isolation. Hue, Dorsey, Haley and the line coach will all have something to say about it. It isn't a decision about one single player it's a decision about what composes the best overall unit.

I'm not sure. Nate Zegura hasn't shut up about the Browns love for Harrison all pre-season.

Of course, Zegura is no stranger to being a puppet, but I'm not sure he's spent the last two months touting a will-he-make-the-roster guy just to keep the Steelers getting in the lead up to the opener.

He's certainly a talented kid, while I think Bitonio has been a spanner in the works due to how good he is at LG but also how smooth he's looked at LT, so it won't shock me if the Browns are legitimately still weighing up their options.

At first thats what i thought ... then i thought about it for a minute ...

We have NO CLUE what went on at practice the last week or so as its now closed ...

- it is possible that Harrison has showed so well that Harrison/Joel is on par or close to Joel/Corbett ...

I definelty side with u that theres just not enough time ....

But u never know what we dont know ...

I think you need to take another look at what he said. lol

He never said that Harrison would be the starting LT.

Yeah, I can realistically see us going w/either:

--Bitonio at LT and Corbett at LG, or

--Harrison at LT and Bitonio at LG.

I think Bitionio will be good at either position. However, he is more experienced and seemingly comfortable at LG.

I haven't watched enough of either Harrison or Corbett to say which one is better. I gotta trust the coaches and FO on this one.

I don't think that Hue is just "talking out his ass," though. I think he wants the best 5 guys in there.

One more thing. I know from my coaching days that the OL also relies heavily on the guys working cooperatively and in-sync. It's almost like a choreographed dance line. The steps have to be together. You have to trust what the other guys are doing, especially the brother beside you. Thus, there are times where certain combinations work better together than others, even if one of the dudes might not be as talented as another.

I've got my money on Bitonio at LT. At the end of the day, it's easier to blood a rookie guard than a rookie tackle, especially with Tretter there to help to help Corbett.

I see Harrison as more a long-term projection. He's been awesome, but we got him as an UDFA because of the level of talent he went against in college. So naming him the starter knowing he'll face T.J Watt, Cam Jordon and Leonard Williams to start his career is a little too into-the-deep-end for my tastes.

LT at the NFL level is new for Bitonio, too, but there is a level of comfort there based on his resume.

Harrison is a hope for the future, and he deserves all credit for even forcing this unexpected rise from a raw UDFA to a potential week one starter, but I think the Browns will ultimately play it safe.

If not, damn, I'm really happy for the kid for such an incredible accomplishment. It's not like Bitonio and Corbett is a bad option - if he goes from UDFA to week one starting LT, that's incredible.

Putting a rook at guard, rather than at LT, is a very good point.

I hear you...the #33 was an issue with me from the beginning. But if you look at it. That is nitpicking on my part. He's on the roster. HE IS NOT A BUM by any means. He is the kind of kid that will get better. Now he is the first man up at LG or RG instead of Drango. Also we picked up a RG that I can only assume is decent. I honestly don't have a clue on Earl Watford. I'm glad we kept Robinson.

Actually we have probably the two fastest big bodies in the NFL with Harrison and Robinson. I'm curious how good Wilie Coyote is in bringing both into the field. I like our OL coach and he does it right on what I see on Hard Knocks. He has made them an institution within a team. OL as a unit is very strong and they have each other's back. Not one bum among them.

offensive linemen (9): Joel Bitonio, Austin Corbett, JC Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, Chris Hubbard, Desmond Harrison, Earl Watford, Austin Reiter, Greg Robinson

Undrafted rookie Desmond Harrison could start at left tackle and Joel Bitonio at left guard vs. Steelers

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/09/desmond_harrison_could_start_a.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
BEREA, Ohio -- Joel Bitonio was asked on Monday what it says about future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas that he could be replaced -- as soon as Sunday against the Steelers -- by an undrafted rookie in Desmond Harrison.

"He's a little overrated, huh,'' Bitonio deadpanned.

In all seriousness, coach Hue Jackson is contemplating starting the unknown rookie Sunday against the vaunted Steelers' defense, and moving Bitonio back to his natural position at left guard. That would leave No. 33 overall pick Austin Corbett, who's been starting at left guard with Bitonio at left tackle, the odd man out.

So why on earth would Jackson think about starting a no-name rookie in the opener against a team that finished No. 5 on defense last year and has defensive end Cam Heyward -- 12 sacks in 2017 -- ready to exploit your weakest link?

"He can move, man,'' Bitonio said. "He's athletic. He's definitely the most athletic lineman we have. And he has the length, he has the size, he's the prototypical left tackle when you think of a left tackle. He's like 6-6, long arms, can get back and set. He's done some good things.

"I know he hasn't played against the ones all the time but when he's been out there he's made some good plays. We're just making sure he has the right mindset and understands what he's doing every play.''

When all is said and done, Jackson might stick with the status quo for this game and start Bitonio at left tackle and Corbett at left guard until he can give Harrison more reps with the ones. But if he comes up the learning curve quickly enough this week, Harrison (6-6, 295) could get the nod.

"He's just improved,'' said Jackson. " So it gives you another option to look through to see who's the best five guys to put out there, him, (Greg) Robinson. Robinson's improved. I've seen a lot of good things over the last week and a half. And, again, my job is to make sure we put the best players out there period. Whatever position it is, that's what we're supposed to do in those situations. That's what we're going to do."

Jackson has liked what he's seen from Harrison, out of West Georgia, more and more every day since he passed his physical on Aug. 9 and started practicing with the team. A transfer from Texas, Harrison missed the first two weeks of camp with a toe injury. Had he not missed any camp, he might've won the starting job sooner. But Jackson wasn't about to provide the Steelers with a thorough scouting report.

"Athletic,'' said Jackson. "You guys have watched him, though. I don't want to talk about him too much. You've seen him play in games. The guy is big and long and athletic. So he's got talent."

Jackson said currently "nothing's change'' with the lineup but "we've got a week. We don't play until Sunday, so I'm going to figure it out, put the best five guys out there.''

He also said he'll make an announcement on it before the game but "I already know what it is. You just don't know what it is, that's all. I have a pretty good idea what it is, what it's going to be.''

The least of his worries would be Bitonio going back to left guard, where he was a Pro Bowl alternate last year and one of the best in the game.

"He's been working at tackle, he's been working at guard, so I think we'll be fine,'' he said. "Whatever we decide to do it's going to be what's best for the football team.''

Bitonio insisted he doesn't know if he'll be a guard or tackle for one of the biggest games of the season.

"I think coach is going to come back Wednesday and give us a definite answer,'' said Bitonio. "I'm ready for both, though. Whatever they put me at I'm ready to go and play some football finally."

Has he ever not known which position he'll be playing this close to the season?

"Yeah, in high school,'' he said.

Unusual?

"Yeah, it's different, for sure,'' he said. "Usually you have your five linemen, you're set to go. We're trying to get our best five guys out there. I just do what I'm told. That's a coach Jackson question, I'm ready to go out there and play whatever position he wants me to play.''

Unusual yes, but awkward, no.

"It's just trying to get the best five guys out there,'' he said. "I know he's going through his plan and Desmond hasn't gotten as much practice time so he's trying to see where he's at and Corbett is still working. It's taking a little more time than we would have hoped. But we didn't have (Kevin) Zeitler out there for a while either. We're going to need a few good days of practice, we're going to get a good rhythm going and we'll be fine for Pittsburgh."

Despite the left side shakeup and the fact Zeitler played only one series in preseason -- against the Lions -- because of a calf injury, Bitonio believes the line will come together in time for Sunday.

"Yeah, I think so,'' he said. "It's going to be a rookie most likely whoever I'm playing next to, so I'll be able to communicate with them and kind of understand and if I'm playing tackle we have J.C. (Tretter) in there and if I'm playing guard, we'll have Desmond out there but we'll be able to communicate and we'll be able to work together. I know Hubb and Zeitler are doing good things on the right side, so it will be good."

Does Bitonio have any input on the decision with Jackson considering he wasn't thrilled about moving to left tackle in the first place?

"No, he just tells me what to do,'' said Bitonio.

Agreed... a rookie mistake at LT could have dire consequences. Plus, it give our front office a chance to evaluate the O-line to see what additions might be needed.

Dawgs.

The Browns WILL NOT make this move right now.

It's STUPID. IGNORANT. After the last 4 weeks running Bitonio at LT.

If Jackson makes this move NOW, I've lost an IMMENSE amount of confidence in him.

Dumb, Dumb and Dumber.

I don't think they will make the change...yet. But...what if Harrison is showing well against Garrett? Or the light has come on for Robinson?

We survived last year with Drango out there...Harrison and Robinson surely are better. We had two OTs that needed help last year...if Harrison/Robinson need some help, we are still better off than last year after JT went down as Hubbard can do his thing by himself.

I would think that Bitonio the LG can better help the LT than Bitonio the LT can help the LG. JMO

The fact that Harrison is in this discussion is either really stupid or a really good sign

Has Harrison even practiced with the 1's ? If not then it's a dumb move to do now.

Would you care to explain how it could be really stupid? Do you think any of us know more about the players than the coaching staff does? LMAO.......you guys kill me.

Moving on: After reading Bitonio's comments, it's pretty freaking obvious that he thinks Harrison is "all that" and it's pretty obvious that he doesn't regard Corbett in the same light.

Hue's comments seem to echo Bitonio's. They talk about Harrison being "athletic" and "long." This team isn't goint to win the Super Bowl this year. It might not be a bad idea to plug the guy in if he is as talented as advertised.

I really don't have a prediction on who will start, but it sure seems like the Browns are far more excited about Harrison than they are about Corbett.

I'm not sure why you're coming at me ... I wasn't implying I knew 1/100th of what the coaches do. I was implying that it must be a good thing because I don't think anyone could be stupid enough to just randomly try this with a rookie (or talk about it).

Well, I read KWhip's post and then you said something about it being either really stupid or....

Why would it be stupid? Just curious.

Because hes a RAW ass Rookie who missed MOST OF CAMP with injury.

Is that not enough to classify it as STUPID this late in the game?

How bout the fact that for the last 4 or 5 weeks we've been running Bitonio/Corbett.

Now all of a sudden we're going to a RIPE ROOKIE?

It's STUPID

Are you resigning as captain of the ferry? LMAO

Dude, you should calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

It's stupid if they do it and it doesn't work. The coaches know things that we don't know.

My guess is that Bitonio doesn't have the frame, the feet, or the quicks to play LT well at this level. That's why he was drafted as a OG. He could fill in competently, but its not his forte. He's a really good OG and a so-so LT.

You mean... the same coaching staff that knows their players so well and who are so smart that they saw fit to put Shon Coleman in at starting left tackle at the beginning of training camp? Not OTAs. Not Mini-camp. But training camp, when it is far more important to prepare for the season, especially for the offensive line, and NOT to conduct peculiar position experiments.

And after the LT Shon Coleman experiment went down in flames, he was busted down first to 2nd string RT, then 3rd string RT, and was finally traded for a 7th round pick.

This super smart coaching staff you seem to hold in high regard couldn't look at last year's tape and figure out that not only was Coleman unfit to hold down the starting left tackle job, but couldn't even hold down the backup right tackle job, and was ultimately only worth a throwaway pick in next year's draft.

And this same coaching staff, which had an entire off season to come up with a some semblance of a sensible plan for the vital left tackle position, STILL DOESN'T QUITE KNOW who is starting at left tackle against the Steelers.

Versatile, I'll grant you that these coaches are smarter than the average fan, but barely so judging from this fiasco. I know it is impossible to replace the likes of Joe Thomas the very next season, but they didn't have to double down on stupid and flounder around like this.

Believe me, they are way smarter than the guys on this board when it comes to football decisions. We are replacing Joe "Freaking" Thomas. We didn't land Solder in FA. There were not any viable LTs at the top of the draft.

This was never going to be easy. It's just another venue for some of you to pile on Hue.

I fully understand and agree that the Browns were never going to get a top left tackle this off season.

I'll go a step further and say that they weren't going to get a very good or even a good left tackle either.

But it is not at all unreasonable to expect the Browns to find a JAG left tackle to hold down the position for the year, and get him into OTAs, mini-camp, and training camp so that he can work continuously with the rest of the offensive line. Anything to solidify that vital unit.

Instead, the Browns braintrust played musical chairs all during training camp with the left tackle position.

If experiments like moving Bitonio over to LT needed to be done, they should have been done during OTAs, not during the second week of training camp.

And I'm not necessarily blaming all of this on Hue. Where were Haley and Wiley in all of this? Aren't they supposed to know a thing or two about building an O-line, and help with the project by contributing their expertise?

And what about Dorsey? When Corbett was drafted, all the happy talk coming out of Berea was that he was the new left tackle because that's what he was in college. Nobody said anything different at the time. Not Dorsey, not Hue, not Haley, and not Wiley.

But then Joe Thomas casually notes in an interview that Corbett will never be an NFL tackle - he just doesn't have the proper build for it, but he can be a fine guard. All of a sudden, nobody in Berea is talking up Corbett at tackle any more! How is it that Joe Thomas had this figured out right away, but the Berea Clownshow did not?

All the Berea Braintrust had to do was to find a solid, stable JAG left tackle, plug him into the position early in the offseason workouts, and develop him from there.

Instead, the Browns floundered and flailed to produce the following:

• The GM drafted a guard he thought would be a left tackle but can't because he doesn't have the build for it. Doh!
• A tackle who couldn't even cut it as a 3rd string right tackle was plugged into left tackle and ultimately traded away for a bucket of rusty bolts.
• OL Coach Wiley says that moving Bitonio over to left tackle is Plan Z and the Clowns are currently on Plan B.
• Two days later, Hue slaps down his O-Line Coach, declares that, "I am the Big Decider around these here parts!", and moves Bitonio to left tackle.
• A fine left guard was moved out of position to left tackle nearly halfway through training camp, not during OTAs and mini-camp, and was replaced by a rookie. This move weakens both positions on the left side of the line at the same time. It should have been done during OTAs
• At the end of training camp, going into the first week of the season, the Browns still don't know for sure who is the left tackle. It might be Bitonio or it might be some rookie UDFA guy named Harrison. I hope Harrison proves to be a great surprise, but rookie UDFAs are usually quite a few steps below a JAG.

And all the Browns had to do this off season was find a JAG left tackle. This was a reasonable expectation - a simple and rational and not that hard of a plan.

Versatile, I highly respect your football knowledge which is greater than mine by far, but there is no way you can convince me that the Browns did an OK job with the left tackle position this off season. They blew it. Life experience teaches us that even very smart and experienced people can wind up making a long series of really stupid decisions. See: Vietnam War.

P.S. Versatile, I don't entirely mean to dump all this on you. I am clearly venting and spewing and foaming at the mouth. Here's the thing... for over thirty years I have been watching one Browns regime after another screw up the offensive line, which I regard as the most vital and important position group on the team. Over and over and over and over again and again I have watched the Berea Clownshow screw up the offensive line. For THIRTY YEARS NOW! So yeah, I get quite worked up and angry over this crap. I am beyond frustrated with it by this point.

I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire, Versatile, but so it goes.

Considering what we knew about all of the LT candidates at the begining of camp, attempting to move Coleman was acceptable. He was a veteran tackle on the team at that point. Giving him a shot was perfectly reasonable.

Not sure of the timeline but Harrison has his injury and Rod Johnson was determined not to be an option. They give their high draft choice lineman, Corbett, a chance to show something at left tackle. Again they quickly and wisely determined that he is not suitable for the LT position. The team pretty quickly moved on to Bitonio while Harrison continued to recover from his toe injury. They bring in Robinson who shows inconsistency as Harrison is coming back from injury and working with the 2's and 3's. Harrison continues to progress and Corbett begins to settle in at left guard. He hasn't reached Bitonio's level at the left guard position but Corbett does show some steady progress.

While this is taking place Harrison's development playing LT is getting noticed. All of the other evaluations have been done fairly quickly and decisively. The coaches' evaluation of Harrison's progress also must be formed quickly. They have made no secret that they want to best unit they can get as soon as they can get it. They arrive at a point where they must consider if Harrison's progress at LT has been sufficient that he can play LT well enough with Joel lined up next to him.

I don't know that answer but that's where I think they are and how they got there.

It's cool. I admire your passion. I also like how you take the time to express yourself. I enjoy your contrary nature. I find that refreshing because it gets people to think. And in my world, thinking is a good thing as opposed to set opinions.

This isn't known yet, but I am guessing the OL isn't going to be as bad as some of you think it's going to be. I thought it was going to be really bad, but man, some of these guys impressed me in preseason.

Corbett was functional at LG.

Bitonio was pretty darn good at LT.

Harrison caught my eye against Detroit. I didn't even know his name, but talked about him in the Postgame thread. I just said #69. Dude is athletic as all get out and he pancaked dudes. True pancakes.

It's a work in progress. They might start w/Bitonio and Corbett and then transition to Harrison and Bitonio. It might just be the opposite. I'm not sure why any of this is all that surprising considering we lost a HOF LT? LOL

I am not saying this w/certainity, but I have a good feeling about Harrison. I know what I saw against Detroit. Dude was awesome! I can read between the lines when reading Bitonio's and Hue's comments. This dude is an athletic marvel. Long, athletic. Good feet. Strong. Man!

I want to reiterate.........I am not saying he will be good. I'm just saying I have a pretty good feeling this guy might surprise us. He will almost certainly have growing pains, but does anyone think we were going to get anyone to be Joe Thomas?

I also like that our staff and FO are willing to give a guy like Harrison a chance over a guy who was drafted in the second round. That's pretty big, man. Performance over draft status!

You are an asset to the board.

I find it unlikely that the coaches are being flippant about the LT position. It's the most important position on the OL. Protecting the QB's blindside is everything. That's one thing we know just as well as the coaches.

So, obviously, they've seen SOMETHING from Harrison to warrant this discussion.

He's an interesting case: Elite prospect, but dominating a lower level of competition combined with off-field concerns tanked his draft stock. If his record off the field was clean, and played out his collegiate career as a Longhorn, we'd potentially be talking about a guy who could have been drafted top 10.

As Bitonio said in his most recent interview, Harrison has made some plays against the ones and has all the talents of a prototypical NFL LT. As Jackson has said, Desmond Harrison caught the attention of the coaches because he never stopped improving throughout the entire camp. Coaches are always going to fall for a guy if they're showing him his mistakes and then watching him correct it.

So, why is it dumb? I get that there is concern for a raw rookie being thrown into the fire, but I'd bet my bottom dollar the coaches have the same concerns and it's exactly why he hasn't already been named the starter.

However, there are some positives with this. As I mentioned earlier in the thread to Vers, it's easier to blood a rookie LG than a rookie LT. What I didn't mention, however, is that it's easier to help a rookie LT by giving him a TE to help. It's easier to trust Bitonio, Tretter, Zeitler and Hubbard (All veterans playing their natural position) with their responsibilities so any RB blocking can watch the QB's back.

It's also helpful that Tyrod Taylor is a mobile quarterback, so we're not talking about protecting a statue back there.

Combine this with that fact that Harrison has evidently earned this discussion. Again, no NFL coaching staff is flippant with their LT decision. For this to be a consideration shows that Harrison has clearly impressed.

I'm with you on Bitonio and Corbett, but it seems unfair to outright dismiss Harrison. The guy clearly deserves more credit than that. I don't understand why people get so mad when a young player thrusts himself into consideration. Can't we just be happy for a kid who is clearly making plays?

If you go look at most draft profiles on him he was rated among the top 10 LT prospects. I didn't say tackle prospects. Left tackle prospects.

Nice post.

I don't know if the dude is good enough, but I liked what I saw out of him when I didn't even know his damn name. That is documented.

And if you read Bitonio's and Hue's quotes about him they match up fairly perfectly. It's just a guess, but we might have found a diamond in the rough.

What they are thinking is that Joel at LG and Harrison at LT is a better combo than Joel at LT and Corbett at LG. Is that because Joel is that much better at LG or is it because Corbett is not so good at LG?

If I'm being totally honest, my first reaction (in my head) was much closer to kwhip's and others' "the sky is falling"/"these guys are all dummies" than anything else. A big part of that is I didn't know much about Harrison. I didn't know he was a top LT prospect that dropped for off-field stuff. I'll have to go back and look at that.

But that said, the main two reasons was because of the flippant nature Hue seems to have regarding the LT position, and the difference between TC/preseason and regular season games. Hue's demeanor is probably just gamesmanship on his part, but that last bit is the final sticking point that I don't have an answer to. Regular season is completely different from TC and preseason. I don't like the idea of throwing someone new in there that has basically had 0 reps with/against the starters just in time for our first real game against the Steelers. It's really unfortunate that Harrison wasn't available from the get go, but that doesn't mean we should rely on hope that he'll get himself ready for game 1.

I don't mind Hue's personality and style. He's over confident with all of his media interactions. I don't have a problem with that at all. Personally I like to under promise and over deliver in what I do - but as a HC I think you can be successful with many different approaches.

As for the talk of having a low round rookie LT start week 1 after missing much of TC and pre-season .... against the Steelers .... come on, let's be honest. On the face of it - it does sound far fetched and I doubt it will happen.

With that said - you simply have to have some trust in what the coaches and players see every day when they are behind closed doors. Harrison has to be real close to being a viable option. I doubt it will happen but if it does happen I would expect to be pleasantly surprised. . . . whenever he gets a shot at the LT spot I hope we found our replacement for Joe, because I would love to see Joel back to LG where he has been great since he was drafted.

j/c

Bullet points that I think are facts:

- We aren't used to ANY discussion about filling the LT position;

- There are other teams that would LOVE to have our 'problem' at LT;

- The FO made a huge effort to find/get a new LT in the off-season;

- Not even the most-critical S Coleman Browns fans could have imagined that he would regress like he did. Fail at LT? Sure...many posters predicted that. Fail to even be a backup at RT where he started 16 games last year? Nope.;

- Harrison was injured until early August. The coaches couldn't be sure what they had in him for x # of days/weeks;

- Fans have thought for years that Bitonio MIGHT be a logical heir-apparent to the LT position;

- Harrison has reportedly improved dramatically. That means we have a good prospect and he's getting some good coaching;

- In the end, if this kid can be the guy, we are much better for it.

So...what's not to like? Timing? I agree. I bet the coaches would love to have had Harrison available at the start of TC...but they didn't. No one could change that. As oobernoober stated, I'm not happy with Hue's flippant remarks about the LT position...but that is-what-it-is with Hue. It's put-up or bye-bye time for Hue...if we win, it's all good.

This is false. I didn't think he belonged on our roster and felt with very little upgrade to our depth and he would be gone. I doubt he regressed at all. He simply didn't improve.

I believe that's were some of the contention comes into play.

.. Some think like you ( me included ) and where continually scratching our heads over an FO and Coaching staff that could conceve Shon at LT !

As much as I hope Harrison is a Diamond in the rough ; Even thinking about STARTING him at LT at Pit. is another head scratcher or Hue with a flipent mouth

j/c

Some of you guys are all in a kerfuffle about how Jackson has talked about the LT position. What about the things Bitonio has said about Harrison? I mean, he's a trench warrior himself and he's spoken positively about him.

I'd have to agree with you when it comes to some of Hue's comments to the press. Sometimes I wish he would use a military saying, "Shut up and color".

I have no idea why they ever gave Coleman a shot at LT to begin with. Only blind homers who know nothing about the OL and the skill set to play the position could have felt in their wildest dreams he could ever man the starting LT position. He was a TERRIBLE RT and it had nothing to do with him playing LT in college, it was about a weak skill set. The only position that Coleman had the possibility to play was the G position and the strength at that position makes that impossible for him to have maintained a roster spot at.

When it comes to the possibility of starting Harrison, I think it's just bluster that's not going to happen. But unless someone is blind, from watching Hard Knocks it seems pretty obvious to me that suggestions such as that would be coming from Bob Wylie and Haley.

It's been obvious to me that Hue is now the HC and let's his asst. coaches run their respective areas.

Ok. So you saw something that the coaches & FO completely whiffed on. No problem...it happens.

I was trying to defend the coaches/FO thought-process at LT and at this time. Even though I exist to only bash Hue.

I can't speak for others...but Bitonio's comments brought me to a realization that maybe this whole Harrison thing is actually a GOOD thing rather than a BAD thing. We found a diamond-in-the-rough type guy and he's improving quickly. Sounds good to me.

I think they knew they had MAJOR PROBLEMS at LT and I think they knew Coleman wasn’t the answer ...

They tried for Solder ... PROBLEM SOLVED ... swung and missed ...

There was diddly else in FA .. literally .. NOTHING ...

There was COMPLETE and UTTER CRAP in the draft ...

They knew Joel was more than likely there best bet .. but u dont want to move him for obvious reasons ... so they draft Corbett in rnd 2 as a possible solution to our LT problem ...

They also take a flier on an undrafted rookie cause were WELL PAST THROW CRAP AGAINST THE WALL TIME ...

Thats how it worked out ... IF i’m In there shoes .. even though its more like a wing and a prayer than even a long shot ...

Now we head to OTA’s and were working Coleman at LT and he’s been working as a LT since last season ...

I gotta give Coleman first shot on a short leash so i don’t have to move Joel ... the undrafted rook looks good and opens some eyes ... then gets HURT ...

Faced with how that played out ...

Even though i’m about 98% sure its not gonna work ... i gotta give Coleman the first shot and allow him to prove what we all ready know ... he stinks ... SHORT LEASH ...

I get your frustration ... there just wasn’t any other viable options other than Solder in FA ..

LT’s dont grow on trees ... and bright side ... were way ahead of the curve here compared to how long we’ve been attempting to get a QB ... *LOL* ...

It all hinges on this for me ...

If were doing this cause Harrison is good as opposed to were doing it cause Corbett stinks ... then I agree ... its a good thing ... potentially GREAT ...

Wasn't trying to raise anyone's hackle's , lol ..

Harrison is an interesting prospect to me , but wish Hue would just keep his thoughts to himself sometimes ( not in the press )and just Coach . I'm all done now ! L

run blocking will improve with bitinio at lt we will run right at speed rushers on 3 and 4 and get it.
hopefully then we go to hurry up and keep speed rushers against are right and left tackles.
Pass blocking will suffer this year because you loss one of the all time greats

Just a comment and a question.

While Joe Thomas did say that he thought Corbett did not have the build to play LT ( and he was right). I believe he also said that Shon Coleman would be a good LT for this team.(Which, he was wrong about). The point is while Thomas is a great LT. His player assessment abilities from the sideline has yet to be determined.

Also, how much can one tell about a prospective LT before the pads go on and the real hitting begins? I am sure they could spot glaring weaknesses etc. Bu, and this is just my thought, it would seem that many things are not going to become evident until the real hitting in training camp begins.

While that may be true for rookies, players who have been on your roster have film with which you can evaluate their skill sets. Or lack there of.

Were good dawg ... should have put j/c ... that post casted a wide ass net ...

Its been an UGLY PROCESS .. unfortunately sometimes UGLY is also turns out to be the best plan ... given all the surronding circumstances in this case ...

- joe retiring
- nuttin resembling a good tackle in FA or the draft other than one that chose to go elsewhere
- LT’s dont grow on trees

Taking all those factors into consideration ... it had no chance but to an be UGLY ass process ..

See

John Elway and his ability to aquire a QB for his team ...

He’s managed to win a SB without a QB but he sure as all hell has swung and missed ALOT on QB’s!!!

Great player does not even come close to meaning there going to be a great teacher, gm or coach ...

See Ted Williams stint as a hitting instructor ....

j/c

Just read a fan post from another site that was interesting. Is it possible that this isn't strictly a Corbett versus Harrison equation?

What if they are considering a line of Bitonio, Watford, Tretter, Zeitler and Hubbard? Allowing the two rookies more time to develop. Watford looked solid against Detroit AND he has experience against NFL starters.

Only one thing is for certain. No matter what we do, there are several posters on here will say we did it because Hue is a dumb ass.

j/c:

Reading up on the Browns at lunch today I came across a fan's opinion that the OL who-ha going on right now is all about Haley and his inside/out zone running scheme. His point is that Haley would rather be strong at G and dicey at T than vice versa. This may also explain why we struggled to run at times in the pre-season and said good-bye to Drango.

He also opined - as has been done here before - on the fact that we have 6' tall QBs and cannot afford for the middle of the line to be compromised. (Mobile 6' QBs at that.)

Interesting stuff...but I don't know the nuances of an inside/out zone running scheme...other than it works really well when your OL can bear-hug D linemen and the refs never call it.

Curious what you OL guys have to say about that...give me something to try and watch for on Sunday.

edit:
Wished I'd seen guarddawg's post above and included it here originally.

I think it's funny that everything a coach says is generally only "psycho-anaylized" in places like this... and the fact that we're arrogant enough to think this has some bearing on a game, season, or coaches future.

Hue plainly said that Harrison is a capable body and that we would know later in the week who would march out onto the field. In the next sentence he clearly said that he already knows. Sounds like he's just throwing shade, as he always does, this never bothers me. It's not his job to divulge every thought process and every fact to the media just 'cuz they want to know.

With all that said... we should be ECSTATIC that we have a possible long term solution at LT that we basically picked up off the scrap heap. Instead, we're questioning our coaching staff for something they haven't even done yet.

Herd Knocks should lend some insight tonight. If not, we'll just have to keep "guessing" until Sunday rolls around.

Just to give context to my earlier post, I was reading that article while thinking to myself "hoping a late-round rookie tackle will eventually lock down the LT spot because he's looking great in shorts is a great way to get your QB broken in half".

As I learn more about Harrison and put everything in context, I'm more and more at ease. I definitely agree with you all that it's very exciting to potentially have a diamond in the rough type find that can lock down the position, but I just want to proceed slowly.

Who gives a Flyin' &$ about what a few say.

IGNORE THEM. PERMANENTLY. You don't need to respond to EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD.

God %$.

Can you clarify what the dude meant when he said "inside/out zone running scheme?"

Teams run both the outside zone or Zone Stretch and an Inside zone.

Both have the linemen moving in the same direction. It gets the defense moving in one direction. Thus, you typically start w/the Zone Stretch and then later go to the Inside zone [where RBs can cut back or make a quick one cut] after the D is used to flowing in one direction.

Now, none of this applies if teams aren't using a Zone Blocking system.

OUch! ... *L*

Good stuff for me on the Zone Blocking comments. I've seen that happen, but didn't know what it's called - I appreciate that info.

Unfortunately I cannot clarify on the guy's comments. He didn't say anything more than 'inside/out zone scheme'. He DID call it Haley's inside/out zone scheme...if that helps. I guess whatever Haley liked to run at Pitt is what he's talking about?

I'd like to understand what is the specific O Lineman's blocking assignment in Haley's scheme...in general...I imagine that depends on what the defense does or doesn't do. I couldn't talk intelligently about any blocking scheme...so whatever I read will be a learned thing. I'm looking for something to try and key-on Sunday.

I don't know exactly what he meant by that quote either. You have to use both. I'm wondering if he is mistaken or if he is alluding to the guards and tackles Haley had in Pittsburgh? DeCastro is one of the best. Pouncey is very good at center. The two tackles are mediocre.

Let me see if I can find an article or video on both of those that is easy to understand. I'll be back in a few.

Here is a video that's okay. I'll try and find an article next.

This one seems pretty easy to follow. I'll just post the link because there are videos in the article.

http://nflbreakdowns.com/2015/03/beginner-series-zone-runs/

Thank you. I'll study the link this evening. Hopefully I can come back with better understanding and some good questions.

I think that the coaches believe this cat can play at or near the level of JB, and I also think they believe as do I that if it don't work out they can always go back to JB. Their not dead certain so they are hesitant at this point.
In a perfect world JB stay at LG, and I think thats what their hoping for. Makes sense to me anyway.

j/c:

The #Chiefs and OL Cam Erving agreed to terms on a 2-year extension that can be worth up to $15.7M, source said, depending on play-time. He gets $6.45M in guarantees and is the highest paid swing O-linemen in the NFL. Not bad for a first-rounder KC traded for last year.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1037055531729469441

What the....???

Did he get super serious in the gym AND learn how to use leverage this offseason, or something?

I cannot wait to see us bowl him over onto his butt all game long November 4th.

Oh wow...

i cant believe erving got another deal

Good for him, kc obviously likes him.

So it goes on Hard Knocks, and in the NFL, that we must say goodbye to some of our favorite characters at the end of training camp. Carl Nassib, the defensive lineman who moonlights as an amateur financial advisor; Devin Cajuste, tight end, devoted son and crystal enthusiast; and reserve QB Brogan Roback, who enlightened America on the correct pronunciation of TUH-rod Taylor, were all let go by the Browns this weekend as they trimmed their roster for the regular season.

But another breakout star will, thankfully, continue to be a fixture in Cleveland: Bob Wylie, the Browns offensive line coach who loathes stretching, uses film of rhinoceroses and gorillas to teach proper offensive lineman posture and went viral for a clip of his stomach moving up and down in harmony with the snap count. Set hut! (wiggle) Set hut! (wiggle). “I’m just trying to get them to move,” Wylie says. (You can now buy T-shirts, celebrating this marvelous scene.)

Offensive line coaches often do their work in anonymity, much like the players they coach (except, of course, when they mess up). Doing so is a source of pride, which is why when the Hard Knocks cameras set up shop in Cleveland, so too did a kangaroo court doling out fines to offensive linemen who sought out air time. Despite his newfound fame, Wylie says he hasn’t had to pay up so far. “They haven’t decided what to do with me yet,” he explains. “I didn’t go out of my way [to get on the show], they just videoed me.”
Getty Images

The cameras definitely found Wylie, and we are glad for it. But there’s plenty more about the 67-year-old coach from West Warwick, R.I., that’s been left on the cutting room floor.

“For one part of my life, I was coaching football, teaching high school economics, playing drums in a band and flying a jet,” Wylie said in a phone interview before tonight’s Hard Knocks finale. “For whatever reason, football just took over. I don’t know why. People say, How did you get into the NFL? Well, I made a pest of myself.”

There’s a lot to parse there. Let’s go one by one.

Bob Wylie became a drummer in junior high, when his dad bought him a three-piece drum set. “The next thing I know,” he says, “I was playing drums in an eight-piece brass band.” The band was called the Royal Coachmen; they played at clubs in Providence, Boston, Hartford. “One time,” Wylie adds, “we got to NYC.”

Bob Wylie became a pilot during his senior year in high school. His family used to go to an ice cream shop near an airport and watch planes take off and land. On one trip, he mentioned to his dad, “That looks like a lot of fun.” His dad had a friend who was a flight instructor and suggested Bob take lessons. Wylie saved up money from his paper route and other jobs to get an hour of flight time a week. This afforded him a certain status enviable to high school boys.
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The Browns and Hard Knocks Have a Beautiful Marriage

“I always got dates with the prettiest girls in the senior class. My buddies said, How did you get a date with her?” Wylie recounts. “I told them, ‘No. 1, I’m better looking. No. 2, I’m a better athlete. No. 3, I’m getting on airplane, taking her to Martha’s Vineyard for dinner, and then flying back. You are taking Susie Q to Joe’s Bar and Grill for a cheeseburger.’ ”

Today, Wylie owns a private jet, which is parked in Scottsdale, Ariz. This past summer he used it to pick up his daughter, Jennifer, and two grandkids (one of whom is named Wylie) in Nashville, and they vacationed in Rhode Island, Martha’s Vineyard, Nantucket and the Hamptons.

Bob Wylie is also an amateur magician, aficionado of disappearing card tricks, one of which he learned from the legendary David Copperfield. Wylie remembers when he had his appendix taken out as a kid and a group of Patriots players came to visit children in the hospital. So in many of the cities he’s worked in, he’s found a local children’s hospital to visit on Friday afternoons during the season, cheering up the kids with magic tricks. Last week he performed the Copperfield trick in front of the Hard Knocks cameras in the Browns cafeteria. It begins, “This is the story about the twin brothers that married twin sisters back in medieval times … ” and involves a complicated sleight of hand with only four playing cards on the table. (He’s worried this might be the infraction that finally gets him fined by his players, because he did put on a show).

Bob Wylie is a man of many talents, but he prefers to talk about his job as an offensive line coach. He never technically played OL—he was a tight end and linebacker at Colorado, but he emphasizes that he was a blocking tight end. When he returned to his hometown to teach, he started coaching Pop Warner and junior high football and worked his way up through the ranks: high school, college and the pros, in both the U.S. and Canada.

At West Warwick High, Wylie both played and coached under Frank Maznicki, who’d been a halfback and kicker for George Halas’s Bears. As a young coach, Wylie traveled to clinics across the Northeast, taping the presentations on his cassette recorder. At one, he met Jim McNally, then Boston College’s offensive line coach, and asked him to help him develop blocking rules for the plays in Maznicki’s offense.
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In 1980, Wylie was coaching at Brown when he received a call from McNally. “You have to come to Cincinnati,” McNally said. Wylie’s coaching buddy was then on Forest Gregg’s Bengals staff, and discovered that their playbook was nearly identical to what Wylie brought to him several years earlier. Maznicki had borrowed from Halas, whose offense shared many of the principles and terminology that Gregg mastered in Green Bay under Vince Lombardi. Wylie told McNally everything he knew, and soon was a regular guest at Bengals headquarters.

Those trips to Cincinnati opened the door to Wylie’s coaching career in the NFL and, equally as important in his mind, the C.O.O.L. Clinic (Coaches of Offensive Linemen). For the first few years, the clinic consisted of six coaches gathered in McNally’s office; when team owner Mike Brown grew nervous that the Bengals’ secrets were getting out, they relocated to the nearby Clarion hotel. Wylie began running the clinic in 1995; this year, 450 coaches attended, together consuming 400 pizzas for lunch, about one pizza per coach. There’s really nothing else like it in football, with about two-thirds of the NFL and more than 100 colleges in the same room, a camaraderie among rivals who simply want to improve the profession of coaching offensive line.

The logo for the C.O.O.L. Clinic, which appears on polos, mugs, paperweights and Slinkies, is a mushroom. “Offensive line coaches are always left in the dark and they always feed us s---,” Wylie explains. “Well, that’s how mushrooms grow.”

Wylie previously worked for head coach Hue Jackson in Oakland. He’s proud of turning a Raiders line that had given up the fourth-most sacks in the league the season before into a unit that gave up the fourth-fewest sacks the season he coached them. This year in Cleveland he faces one of the biggest challenges an offensive line coach can have, filling the void longtime left tackle Joe Thomas left when he retired. In the mix is an undrafted rookie, Desmond Harrison, who Jackson said on Monday is a possibility to slide in at left tackle so Joel Bitonio can move back to his natural guard position. “You don't just replace the future Hall of Famer,” Wylie says. “We are working on it. We know we can put Joel out there, but if we can keep those three inside guys together, we might feel stronger doing that."
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On Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald and the Value of a Franchise Defensive Player

No wonder he hates loud music on the practice field. There’s lots of work to get done. And Wylie’s teaching methods, just like his opinions on stretching, are sometimes unconventional.

The gorilla teaching tape showcased on Hard Knocks has been part of Wylie’s offensive line curriculum for a quarter century, about as long as he has coached in the NFL. The tape has traveled with him. “When I look at gorillas, the way they move is what I want linemen to look like,” he says. “Knees bent, natural arch in your back, really long arms and a nasty disposition.”

Wylie has even populated the Browns offensive line meeting room with giant stuffed gorillas (and artificial trees, to create a habitat for the primates). It’s not the only interior decorating he’s done. On one wall he has players post pictures of the people most important in their lives; on another photographs of them playing football when they didn’t get paid for it. He’s set up the space like a conference room, rather than a classroom, so the players can all see each other. Offensive linemen have to work together.
The gorilla in the Browns’ offensive line room.

The gorilla in the Browns’ offensive line room.
Courtesy Bob Wylie

Wylie is the epitome of an offensive line coach, with one glaring exception: His choice of vehicle. You know, the snazzy white Maserati he dropped off at the valet in Episode 3, with express instructions: “No Ferris Bueller s--- with this thing, OK?” Before Wylie reverts to the relative anonymity that typically shrouds OL coaches, we need an answer to this important question: Why a white Maserati?

“I didn’t want to go black, or blue,” Wylie says. Bob Wylie, Hard Knocks star, has done it again.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/04/bob-wy...rce=twitter.com


Great article about Bob Wylie today .. thought I'd just post it here

Gorilla tape and posture, nasty disposition... lol. Might be something to that. Thanks for posting the article.

Bob Wylie ~ "The most interesting man in the world".

Good read, thanks.

I am not reading the article until I have watched Hard Knocks tonight.............but I love how you said:



LOL man..............you have some good ones.

My guess is Bitonio is a Pro Bowl Quality LG and a rather mediocre LT.

If Harrison gives us the same MEDIOCRE play at LT but has more upside in his play there.

Corbett was average at best at LG...many many average LGs out there.

Granted it was only preseason, but I thought that Bitonio was pretty effective at LT.

Browns LT Desmond Harrison: The improbable untold story of the next man up to replace Joe Thomas

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com | Posted September 06, 2018 at 08:14 PM

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/er...rrison-the.html

BEREA, Ohio - Almost exactly one year ago, Browns rookie offensive lineman Desmond Harrison retweeted a story about former Browns left tackle Joe Thomas becoming the only player in NFL history to play 10,000 consecutive snaps, using a flexed-muscle emoji to celebrate the the incredible feat.

Little did he know at the time that he'd be gearing up to likely replace the future Hall of Famer when the Browns open the season Sunday against the Steelers at FirstEnergy Stadium - as an undrafted rookie. Hue Jackson will make the announcement on Friday, but signs are pointing to Harrison getting the nod over Joel Bitonio, who will slide over a spot back to left guard.

That Harrison (6-6, 295) is even on an NFL roster after veering so far off track is remarkable.

After getting kicked out of Texas following the 2014 season - a year in which he was suspended three times, tested positive a few times for weed, got shot in the upper thigh, and never saw the field - he sat out of football for two more years, trying to figure out his next move. It seemed that football might be over for him, but he never gave up.

He put his head down, relied on his faith and worked his way back onto the football field, this time at tiny Division II West Georgia on the border of Georgia and Alabama. It wasn't the enormous stage of Texas, but it was just what the big man needed to get his life and football career back on track.

After Harrison, 24, went undrafted because of off-the-field concerns and a failed drug at the NFL Combine according to Bleacher Report's Matt Miller, the Browns scrambled to sign him as a free agent, beating the Giants to the punch.

Now, he's got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to step in for Ironman Joe Thomas and erase those three lost years.

"I had a first-round grade on him,'' said one longtime NFL scout. "There's not 16 better starting left tackles in the league than this kid if he can do the right things.''

More on website.

great read. good luck harrison

I'm sure Joel would love to go back to LG. We'll know officially tomorrow when Hue announces it.

OL is set - hopefully the entire season all starters remain a UNIT.

Harrison, Bitonio, Tretter, Zeitler and Hubbard.

Corbett Interior, Robinson Exterior.

Watford - Extra
EIGHT TOTAL (8)

Practice Squad.

Kyle Kalis - Michigan OG, very good technique and is smart Possibly he can be groomed at the Center position as well as OG.

Brad Seaton - OT 6'8" 310...all I know is the kid is raw and big. Played at Villanova and is from the Bronx. Kids are pretty tough from the Bronx lol

We will probably only dress 7 too ...Which is a luxury most years.

...duplicate post deleted