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WSU Willie #1499169 09/04/18 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

- Not even the most-critical S Coleman Browns fans could have imagined that he would regress like he did. Fail at LT? Sure...many posters predicted that. Fail to even be a backup at RT where he started 16 games last year? Nope.;


This is false. I didn't think he belonged on our roster and felt with very little upgrade to our depth and he would be gone. I doubt he regressed at all. He simply didn't improve.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1499187 09/04/18 10:40 AM
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I believe that's were some of the contention comes into play.

.. Some think like you ( me included ) and where continually scratching our heads over an FO and Coaching staff that could conceve Shon at LT !

As much as I hope Harrison is a Diamond in the rough ; Even thinking about STARTING him at LT at Pit. is another head scratcher or Hue with a flipent mouth

waterdawg #1499215 09/04/18 11:04 AM
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j/c

Some of you guys are all in a kerfuffle about how Jackson has talked about the LT position. What about the things Bitonio has said about Harrison? I mean, he's a trench warrior himself and he's spoken positively about him.

waterdawg #1499216 09/04/18 11:04 AM
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I'd have to agree with you when it comes to some of Hue's comments to the press. Sometimes I wish he would use a military saying, "Shut up and color".

I have no idea why they ever gave Coleman a shot at LT to begin with. Only blind homers who know nothing about the OL and the skill set to play the position could have felt in their wildest dreams he could ever man the starting LT position. He was a TERRIBLE RT and it had nothing to do with him playing LT in college, it was about a weak skill set. The only position that Coleman had the possibility to play was the G position and the strength at that position makes that impossible for him to have maintained a roster spot at.

When it comes to the possibility of starting Harrison, I think it's just bluster that's not going to happen. But unless someone is blind, from watching Hard Knocks it seems pretty obvious to me that suggestions such as that would be coming from Bob Wylie and Haley.

It's been obvious to me that Hue is now the HC and let's his asst. coaches run their respective areas.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1499235 09/04/18 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

- Not even the most-critical S Coleman Browns fans could have imagined that he would regress like he did. Fail at LT? Sure...many posters predicted that. Fail to even be a backup at RT where he started 16 games last year? Nope.;


This is false. I didn't think he belonged on our roster and felt with very little upgrade to our depth and he would be gone. I doubt he regressed at all. He simply didn't improve.


Ok. So you saw something that the coaches & FO completely whiffed on. No problem...it happens.

I was trying to defend the coaches/FO thought-process at LT and at this time. Even though I exist to only bash Hue. rolleyes

guard dawg #1499237 09/04/18 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: guard dawg
j/c

Some of you guys are all in a kerfuffle about how Jackson has talked about the LT position. What about the things Bitonio has said about Harrison? I mean, he's a trench warrior himself and he's spoken positively about him.


I can't speak for others...but Bitonio's comments brought me to a realization that maybe this whole Harrison thing is actually a GOOD thing rather than a BAD thing. We found a diamond-in-the-rough type guy and he's improving quickly. Sounds good to me.

waterdawg #1499251 09/04/18 11:57 AM
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I think they knew they had MAJOR PROBLEMS at LT and I think they knew Coleman wasn’t the answer ...

They tried for Solder ... PROBLEM SOLVED ... swung and missed ...

There was diddly else in FA .. literally .. NOTHING ...

There was COMPLETE and UTTER CRAP in the draft ...

They knew Joel was more than likely there best bet .. but u dont want to move him for obvious reasons ... so they draft Corbett in rnd 2 as a possible solution to our LT problem ...

They also take a flier on an undrafted rookie cause were WELL PAST THROW CRAP AGAINST THE WALL TIME ...

Thats how it worked out ... IF i’m In there shoes .. even though its more like a wing and a prayer than even a long shot ...

Now we head to OTA’s and were working Coleman at LT and he’s been working as a LT since last season ...

I gotta give Coleman first shot on a short leash so i don’t have to move Joel ... the undrafted rook looks good and opens some eyes ... then gets HURT ...

Faced with how that played out ...

Even though i’m about 98% sure its not gonna work ... i gotta give Coleman the first shot and allow him to prove what we all ready know ... he stinks ... SHORT LEASH ...

I get your frustration ... there just wasn’t any other viable options other than Solder in FA ..

LT’s dont grow on trees ... and bright side ... were way ahead of the curve here compared to how long we’ve been attempting to get a QB ... *LOL* ...




WSU Willie #1499257 09/04/18 12:02 PM
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It all hinges on this for me ...

If were doing this cause Harrison is good as opposed to were doing it cause Corbett stinks ... then I agree ... its a good thing ... potentially GREAT ... thumbsup




DiamDawg #1499304 09/04/18 12:37 PM
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Wasn't trying to raise anyone's hackle's , lol ..

Harrison is an interesting prospect to me , but wish Hue would just keep his thoughts to himself sometimes ( not in the press )and just Coach . I'm all done now ! L

eotab #1499313 09/04/18 12:43 PM
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run blocking will improve with bitinio at lt we will run right at speed rushers on 3 and 4 and get it.
hopefully then we go to hurry up and keep speed rushers against are right and left tackles.
Pass blocking will suffer this year because you loss one of the all time greats

Last edited by jacksondawg; 09/04/18 12:44 PM.
eotab #1499314 09/04/18 12:43 PM
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Just a comment and a question.

While Joe Thomas did say that he thought Corbett did not have the build to play LT ( and he was right). I believe he also said that Shon Coleman would be a good LT for this team.(Which, he was wrong about). The point is while Thomas is a great LT. His player assessment abilities from the sideline has yet to be determined.

Also, how much can one tell about a prospective LT before the pads go on and the real hitting begins? I am sure they could spot glaring weaknesses etc. Bu, and this is just my thought, it would seem that many things are not going to become evident until the real hitting in training camp begins.

vadawgfan07 #1499321 09/04/18 12:48 PM
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While that may be true for rookies, players who have been on your roster have film with which you can evaluate their skill sets. Or lack there of.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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waterdawg #1499393 09/04/18 01:58 PM
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Were good dawg ... should have put j/c ... that post casted a wide ass net ... wink

Its been an UGLY PROCESS .. unfortunately sometimes UGLY is also turns out to be the best plan ... given all the surronding circumstances in this case ...

- joe retiring
- nuttin resembling a good tackle in FA or the draft other than one that chose to go elsewhere
- LT’s dont grow on trees

Taking all those factors into consideration ... it had no chance but to an be UGLY ass process ..





vadawgfan07 #1499396 09/04/18 02:00 PM
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See

John Elway and his ability to aquire a QB for his team ...

He’s managed to win a SB without a QB but he sure as all hell has swung and missed ALOT on QB’s!!!

Great player does not even come close to meaning there going to be a great teacher, gm or coach ...

See Ted Williams stint as a hitting instructor .... wink




PitDAWG #1499398 09/04/18 02:04 PM
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j/c

Just read a fan post from another site that was interesting. Is it possible that this isn't strictly a Corbett versus Harrison equation?

What if they are considering a line of Bitonio, Watford, Tretter, Zeitler and Hubbard? Allowing the two rookies more time to develop. Watford looked solid against Detroit AND he has experience against NFL starters.

DiamDawg #1499399 09/04/18 02:06 PM
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Only one thing is for certain. No matter what we do, there are several posters on here will say we did it because Hue is a dumb ass.

PitDAWG #1499401 09/04/18 02:08 PM
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j/c:

Reading up on the Browns at lunch today I came across a fan's opinion that the OL who-ha going on right now is all about Haley and his inside/out zone running scheme. His point is that Haley would rather be strong at G and dicey at T than vice versa. This may also explain why we struggled to run at times in the pre-season and said good-bye to Drango.

He also opined - as has been done here before - on the fact that we have 6' tall QBs and cannot afford for the middle of the line to be compromised. (Mobile 6' QBs at that.)

Interesting stuff...but I don't know the nuances of an inside/out zone running scheme...other than it works really well when your OL can bear-hug D linemen and the refs never call it.

Curious what you OL guys have to say about that...give me something to try and watch for on Sunday.

edit:
Wished I'd seen guarddawg's post above and included it here originally.

Last edited by WSU Willie; 09/04/18 02:12 PM.
eotab #1499403 09/04/18 02:08 PM
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I think it's funny that everything a coach says is generally only "psycho-anaylized" in places like this... and the fact that we're arrogant enough to think this has some bearing on a game, season, or coaches future.

Hue plainly said that Harrison is a capable body and that we would know later in the week who would march out onto the field. In the next sentence he clearly said that he already knows. Sounds like he's just throwing shade, as he always does, this never bothers me. It's not his job to divulge every thought process and every fact to the media just 'cuz they want to know.

With all that said... we should be ECSTATIC that we have a possible long term solution at LT that we basically picked up off the scrap heap. Instead, we're questioning our coaching staff for something they haven't even done yet.

Herd Knocks should lend some insight tonight. If not, we'll just have to keep "guessing" until Sunday rolls around.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
eotab #1499405 09/04/18 02:10 PM
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Just to give context to my earlier post, I was reading that article while thinking to myself "hoping a late-round rookie tackle will eventually lock down the LT spot because he's looking great in shorts is a great way to get your QB broken in half".

As I learn more about Harrison and put everything in context, I'm more and more at ease. I definitely agree with you all that it's very exciting to potentially have a diamond in the rough type find that can lock down the position, but I just want to proceed slowly.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Versatile Dog #1499407 09/04/18 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Only one thing is for certain. No matter what we do, there are several posters on here will say we did it because Hue is a dumb ass.


Who gives a Flyin' &$ about what a few say.

IGNORE THEM. PERMANENTLY. You don't need to respond to EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD.

God %$.

WSU Willie #1499413 09/04/18 02:19 PM
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Can you clarify what the dude meant when he said "inside/out zone running scheme?"

Teams run both the outside zone or Zone Stretch and an Inside zone.

Both have the linemen moving in the same direction. It gets the defense moving in one direction. Thus, you typically start w/the Zone Stretch and then later go to the Inside zone [where RBs can cut back or make a quick one cut] after the D is used to flowing in one direction.

Now, none of this applies if teams aren't using a Zone Blocking system.

DiamDawg #1499424 09/04/18 02:29 PM
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Quote:
See Ted Williams stint as a hitting instructor ....


OUch! ... *L*


[Linked Image]

Versatile Dog #1499428 09/04/18 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Can you clarify what the dude meant when he said "inside/out zone running scheme?"

Teams run both the outside zone or Zone Stretch and an Inside zone.

Both have the linemen moving in the same direction. It gets the defense moving in one direction. Thus, you typically start w/the Zone Stretch and then later go to the Inside zone [where RBs can cut back or make a quick one cut] after the D is used to flowing in one direction.

Now, none of this applies if teams aren't using a Zone Blocking system.


Good stuff for me on the Zone Blocking comments. I've seen that happen, but didn't know what it's called - I appreciate that info.

Unfortunately I cannot clarify on the guy's comments. He didn't say anything more than 'inside/out zone scheme'. He DID call it Haley's inside/out zone scheme...if that helps. I guess whatever Haley liked to run at Pitt is what he's talking about?

I'd like to understand what is the specific O Lineman's blocking assignment in Haley's scheme...in general...I imagine that depends on what the defense does or doesn't do. I couldn't talk intelligently about any blocking scheme...so whatever I read will be a learned thing. I'm looking for something to try and key-on Sunday.

Versatile Dog #1499430 09/04/18 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Only one thing is for certain. No matter what we do, there are several posters on here will say we did it because Hue is a dumb ass.




Tackles are tackles.
WSU Willie #1499437 09/04/18 02:56 PM
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I don't know exactly what he meant by that quote either. You have to use both. I'm wondering if he is mistaken or if he is alluding to the guards and tackles Haley had in Pittsburgh? DeCastro is one of the best. Pouncey is very good at center. The two tackles are mediocre.

Let me see if I can find an article or video on both of those that is easy to understand. I'll be back in a few.

WSU Willie #1499440 09/04/18 03:03 PM
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Here is a video that's okay. I'll try and find an article next.


WSU Willie #1499442 09/04/18 03:08 PM
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This one seems pretty easy to follow. I'll just post the link because there are videos in the article.

http://nflbreakdowns.com/2015/03/beginner-series-zone-runs/

Versatile Dog #1499454 09/04/18 03:28 PM
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Thank you. I'll study the link this evening. Hopefully I can come back with better understanding and some good questions.

eotab #1499463 09/04/18 03:50 PM
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I think that the coaches believe this cat can play at or near the level of JB, and I also think they believe as do I that if it don't work out they can always go back to JB. Their not dead certain so they are hesitant at this point.
In a perfect world JB stay at LG, and I think thats what their hoping for. Makes sense to me anyway.


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Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
Brown to the Bone #1499510 09/04/18 05:39 PM
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j/c:

The #Chiefs and OL Cam Erving agreed to terms on a 2-year extension that can be worth up to $15.7M, source said, depending on play-time. He gets $6.45M in guarantees and is the highest paid swing O-linemen in the NFL. Not bad for a first-rounder KC traded for last year.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1037055531729469441


Tackles are tackles.
MemphisBrownie #1499512 09/04/18 05:41 PM
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What the....???

Did he get super serious in the gym AND learn how to use leverage this offseason, or something?

I cannot wait to see us bowl him over onto his butt all game long November 4th.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

MemphisBrownie #1499514 09/04/18 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
j/c:

The #Chiefs and OL Cam Erving agreed to terms on a 2-year extension that can be worth up to $15.7M, source said, depending on play-time. He gets $6.45M in guarantees and is the highest paid swing O-linemen in the NFL. Not bad for a first-rounder KC traded for last year.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1037055531729469441


Oh wow...

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i cant believe erving got another deal


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Dawgs4Life #1499531 09/04/18 06:04 PM
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Good for him, kc obviously likes him.


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eotab #1499601 09/04/18 08:51 PM
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So it goes on Hard Knocks, and in the NFL, that we must say goodbye to some of our favorite characters at the end of training camp. Carl Nassib, the defensive lineman who moonlights as an amateur financial advisor; Devin Cajuste, tight end, devoted son and crystal enthusiast; and reserve QB Brogan Roback, who enlightened America on the correct pronunciation of TUH-rod Taylor, were all let go by the Browns this weekend as they trimmed their roster for the regular season.

But another breakout star will, thankfully, continue to be a fixture in Cleveland: Bob Wylie, the Browns offensive line coach who loathes stretching, uses film of rhinoceroses and gorillas to teach proper offensive lineman posture and went viral for a clip of his stomach moving up and down in harmony with the snap count. Set hut! (wiggle) Set hut! (wiggle). “I’m just trying to get them to move,” Wylie says. (You can now buy T-shirts, celebrating this marvelous scene.)

Offensive line coaches often do their work in anonymity, much like the players they coach (except, of course, when they mess up). Doing so is a source of pride, which is why when the Hard Knocks cameras set up shop in Cleveland, so too did a kangaroo court doling out fines to offensive linemen who sought out air time. Despite his newfound fame, Wylie says he hasn’t had to pay up so far. “They haven’t decided what to do with me yet,” he explains. “I didn’t go out of my way [to get on the show], they just videoed me.”
Getty Images

The cameras definitely found Wylie, and we are glad for it. But there’s plenty more about the 67-year-old coach from West Warwick, R.I., that’s been left on the cutting room floor.

“For one part of my life, I was coaching football, teaching high school economics, playing drums in a band and flying a jet,” Wylie said in a phone interview before tonight’s Hard Knocks finale. “For whatever reason, football just took over. I don’t know why. People say, How did you get into the NFL? Well, I made a pest of myself.”

There’s a lot to parse there. Let’s go one by one.

Bob Wylie became a drummer in junior high, when his dad bought him a three-piece drum set. “The next thing I know,” he says, “I was playing drums in an eight-piece brass band.” The band was called the Royal Coachmen; they played at clubs in Providence, Boston, Hartford. “One time,” Wylie adds, “we got to NYC.”

Bob Wylie became a pilot during his senior year in high school. His family used to go to an ice cream shop near an airport and watch planes take off and land. On one trip, he mentioned to his dad, “That looks like a lot of fun.” His dad had a friend who was a flight instructor and suggested Bob take lessons. Wylie saved up money from his paper route and other jobs to get an hour of flight time a week. This afforded him a certain status enviable to high school boys.
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The Browns and Hard Knocks Have a Beautiful Marriage

“I always got dates with the prettiest girls in the senior class. My buddies said, How did you get a date with her?” Wylie recounts. “I told them, ‘No. 1, I’m better looking. No. 2, I’m a better athlete. No. 3, I’m getting on airplane, taking her to Martha’s Vineyard for dinner, and then flying back. You are taking Susie Q to Joe’s Bar and Grill for a cheeseburger.’ ”

Today, Wylie owns a private jet, which is parked in Scottsdale, Ariz. This past summer he used it to pick up his daughter, Jennifer, and two grandkids (one of whom is named Wylie) in Nashville, and they vacationed in Rhode Island, Martha’s Vineyard, Nantucket and the Hamptons.

Bob Wylie is also an amateur magician, aficionado of disappearing card tricks, one of which he learned from the legendary David Copperfield. Wylie remembers when he had his appendix taken out as a kid and a group of Patriots players came to visit children in the hospital. So in many of the cities he’s worked in, he’s found a local children’s hospital to visit on Friday afternoons during the season, cheering up the kids with magic tricks. Last week he performed the Copperfield trick in front of the Hard Knocks cameras in the Browns cafeteria. It begins, “This is the story about the twin brothers that married twin sisters back in medieval times … ” and involves a complicated sleight of hand with only four playing cards on the table. (He’s worried this might be the infraction that finally gets him fined by his players, because he did put on a show).

Bob Wylie is a man of many talents, but he prefers to talk about his job as an offensive line coach. He never technically played OL—he was a tight end and linebacker at Colorado, but he emphasizes that he was a blocking tight end. When he returned to his hometown to teach, he started coaching Pop Warner and junior high football and worked his way up through the ranks: high school, college and the pros, in both the U.S. and Canada.

At West Warwick High, Wylie both played and coached under Frank Maznicki, who’d been a halfback and kicker for George Halas’s Bears. As a young coach, Wylie traveled to clinics across the Northeast, taping the presentations on his cassette recorder. At one, he met Jim McNally, then Boston College’s offensive line coach, and asked him to help him develop blocking rules for the plays in Maznicki’s offense.
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A Journeyman’s Run to Become the Most Unlikely Packer

In 1980, Wylie was coaching at Brown when he received a call from McNally. “You have to come to Cincinnati,” McNally said. Wylie’s coaching buddy was then on Forest Gregg’s Bengals staff, and discovered that their playbook was nearly identical to what Wylie brought to him several years earlier. Maznicki had borrowed from Halas, whose offense shared many of the principles and terminology that Gregg mastered in Green Bay under Vince Lombardi. Wylie told McNally everything he knew, and soon was a regular guest at Bengals headquarters.

Those trips to Cincinnati opened the door to Wylie’s coaching career in the NFL and, equally as important in his mind, the C.O.O.L. Clinic (Coaches of Offensive Linemen). For the first few years, the clinic consisted of six coaches gathered in McNally’s office; when team owner Mike Brown grew nervous that the Bengals’ secrets were getting out, they relocated to the nearby Clarion hotel. Wylie began running the clinic in 1995; this year, 450 coaches attended, together consuming 400 pizzas for lunch, about one pizza per coach. There’s really nothing else like it in football, with about two-thirds of the NFL and more than 100 colleges in the same room, a camaraderie among rivals who simply want to improve the profession of coaching offensive line.

The logo for the C.O.O.L. Clinic, which appears on polos, mugs, paperweights and Slinkies, is a mushroom. “Offensive line coaches are always left in the dark and they always feed us s---,” Wylie explains. “Well, that’s how mushrooms grow.”

Wylie previously worked for head coach Hue Jackson in Oakland. He’s proud of turning a Raiders line that had given up the fourth-most sacks in the league the season before into a unit that gave up the fourth-fewest sacks the season he coached them. This year in Cleveland he faces one of the biggest challenges an offensive line coach can have, filling the void longtime left tackle Joe Thomas left when he retired. In the mix is an undrafted rookie, Desmond Harrison, who Jackson said on Monday is a possibility to slide in at left tackle so Joel Bitonio can move back to his natural guard position. “You don't just replace the future Hall of Famer,” Wylie says. “We are working on it. We know we can put Joel out there, but if we can keep those three inside guys together, we might feel stronger doing that."
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No wonder he hates loud music on the practice field. There’s lots of work to get done. And Wylie’s teaching methods, just like his opinions on stretching, are sometimes unconventional.

The gorilla teaching tape showcased on Hard Knocks has been part of Wylie’s offensive line curriculum for a quarter century, about as long as he has coached in the NFL. The tape has traveled with him. “When I look at gorillas, the way they move is what I want linemen to look like,” he says. “Knees bent, natural arch in your back, really long arms and a nasty disposition.”

Wylie has even populated the Browns offensive line meeting room with giant stuffed gorillas (and artificial trees, to create a habitat for the primates). It’s not the only interior decorating he’s done. On one wall he has players post pictures of the people most important in their lives; on another photographs of them playing football when they didn’t get paid for it. He’s set up the space like a conference room, rather than a classroom, so the players can all see each other. Offensive linemen have to work together.
The gorilla in the Browns’ offensive line room.

The gorilla in the Browns’ offensive line room.
Courtesy Bob Wylie

Wylie is the epitome of an offensive line coach, with one glaring exception: His choice of vehicle. You know, the snazzy white Maserati he dropped off at the valet in Episode 3, with express instructions: “No Ferris Bueller s--- with this thing, OK?” Before Wylie reverts to the relative anonymity that typically shrouds OL coaches, we need an answer to this important question: Why a white Maserati?

“I didn’t want to go black, or blue,” Wylie says. Bob Wylie, Hard Knocks star, has done it again.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/04/bob-wy...rce=twitter.com


Great article about Bob Wylie today .. thought I'd just post it here


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Dawgs4Life #1499614 09/04/18 09:21 PM
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Gorilla tape and posture, nasty disposition... lol. Might be something to that. Thanks for posting the article.


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Dawgs4Life #1499637 09/04/18 09:46 PM
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Bob Wylie ~ "The most interesting man in the world".

Good read, thanks.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
FATE #1499645 09/04/18 09:53 PM
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I am not reading the article until I have watched Hard Knocks tonight.............but I love how you said:

Quote:

Bob Wylie ~ "The most interesting man in the world".


LOL man..............you have some good ones.

Dave #1499908 09/05/18 02:28 PM
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My guess is Bitonio is a Pro Bowl Quality LG and a rather mediocre LT.

If Harrison gives us the same MEDIOCRE play at LT but has more upside in his play there.

Corbett was average at best at LG...many many average LGs out there.


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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eotab #1499910 09/05/18 02:32 PM
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Granted it was only preseason, but I thought that Bitonio was pretty effective at LT.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

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