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yeah you're right lamp. I think using guys like Garrett in practice is a really good thing

Well, in that situation, Corbett becomes a guy who can play multiple positions, as a rookie or a year 2 player. Eventually, he will replace someone on the interior.

I've seen talk he could be a C moving forward, as J.C Tretter's contract structure shows he could be cut next year to save some cash. I think it's like a $1.5M hit, saving $4.5M.

All the talk has been about Corbett impressing as a guard, but if the situation calls for it, I've got no problem with him being a C.

The Browns also have a potential out for Kevin Zeitler following the 2019 season. I like Kevin, but I haven't seen $60M reasons to like him.

This is a good point, but I hope the Browns play the best 5 instead of the highest draft picks and highest paid.

I see NO POSSIBLE WAY that we go Harrison/Bitonio the week of the 1st game.

That's Hue talking out his Ass. AGAIN!

I can see your logic. It might not happen in week one. But the other side of it is that any decision won't be made in isolation. Hue, Dorsey, Haley and the line coach will all have something to say about it. It isn't a decision about one single player it's a decision about what composes the best overall unit.

I'm not sure. Nate Zegura hasn't shut up about the Browns love for Harrison all pre-season.

Of course, Zegura is no stranger to being a puppet, but I'm not sure he's spent the last two months touting a will-he-make-the-roster guy just to keep the Steelers getting in the lead up to the opener.

He's certainly a talented kid, while I think Bitonio has been a spanner in the works due to how good he is at LG but also how smooth he's looked at LT, so it won't shock me if the Browns are legitimately still weighing up their options.

At first thats what i thought ... then i thought about it for a minute ...

We have NO CLUE what went on at practice the last week or so as its now closed ...

- it is possible that Harrison has showed so well that Harrison/Joel is on par or close to Joel/Corbett ...

I definelty side with u that theres just not enough time ....

But u never know what we dont know ...

I think you need to take another look at what he said. lol

He never said that Harrison would be the starting LT.

Yeah, I can realistically see us going w/either:

--Bitonio at LT and Corbett at LG, or

--Harrison at LT and Bitonio at LG.

I think Bitionio will be good at either position. However, he is more experienced and seemingly comfortable at LG.

I haven't watched enough of either Harrison or Corbett to say which one is better. I gotta trust the coaches and FO on this one.

I don't think that Hue is just "talking out his ass," though. I think he wants the best 5 guys in there.

One more thing. I know from my coaching days that the OL also relies heavily on the guys working cooperatively and in-sync. It's almost like a choreographed dance line. The steps have to be together. You have to trust what the other guys are doing, especially the brother beside you. Thus, there are times where certain combinations work better together than others, even if one of the dudes might not be as talented as another.

I've got my money on Bitonio at LT. At the end of the day, it's easier to blood a rookie guard than a rookie tackle, especially with Tretter there to help to help Corbett.

I see Harrison as more a long-term projection. He's been awesome, but we got him as an UDFA because of the level of talent he went against in college. So naming him the starter knowing he'll face T.J Watt, Cam Jordon and Leonard Williams to start his career is a little too into-the-deep-end for my tastes.

LT at the NFL level is new for Bitonio, too, but there is a level of comfort there based on his resume.

Harrison is a hope for the future, and he deserves all credit for even forcing this unexpected rise from a raw UDFA to a potential week one starter, but I think the Browns will ultimately play it safe.

If not, damn, I'm really happy for the kid for such an incredible accomplishment. It's not like Bitonio and Corbett is a bad option - if he goes from UDFA to week one starting LT, that's incredible.

Putting a rook at guard, rather than at LT, is a very good point.

Undrafted rookie Desmond Harrison could start at left tackle and Joel Bitonio at left guard vs. Steelers

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/09/desmond_harrison_could_start_a.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
BEREA, Ohio -- Joel Bitonio was asked on Monday what it says about future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas that he could be replaced -- as soon as Sunday against the Steelers -- by an undrafted rookie in Desmond Harrison.

"He's a little overrated, huh,'' Bitonio deadpanned.

In all seriousness, coach Hue Jackson is contemplating starting the unknown rookie Sunday against the vaunted Steelers' defense, and moving Bitonio back to his natural position at left guard. That would leave No. 33 overall pick Austin Corbett, who's been starting at left guard with Bitonio at left tackle, the odd man out.

So why on earth would Jackson think about starting a no-name rookie in the opener against a team that finished No. 5 on defense last year and has defensive end Cam Heyward -- 12 sacks in 2017 -- ready to exploit your weakest link?

"He can move, man,'' Bitonio said. "He's athletic. He's definitely the most athletic lineman we have. And he has the length, he has the size, he's the prototypical left tackle when you think of a left tackle. He's like 6-6, long arms, can get back and set. He's done some good things.

"I know he hasn't played against the ones all the time but when he's been out there he's made some good plays. We're just making sure he has the right mindset and understands what he's doing every play.''

When all is said and done, Jackson might stick with the status quo for this game and start Bitonio at left tackle and Corbett at left guard until he can give Harrison more reps with the ones. But if he comes up the learning curve quickly enough this week, Harrison (6-6, 295) could get the nod.

"He's just improved,'' said Jackson. " So it gives you another option to look through to see who's the best five guys to put out there, him, (Greg) Robinson. Robinson's improved. I've seen a lot of good things over the last week and a half. And, again, my job is to make sure we put the best players out there period. Whatever position it is, that's what we're supposed to do in those situations. That's what we're going to do."

Jackson has liked what he's seen from Harrison, out of West Georgia, more and more every day since he passed his physical on Aug. 9 and started practicing with the team. A transfer from Texas, Harrison missed the first two weeks of camp with a toe injury. Had he not missed any camp, he might've won the starting job sooner. But Jackson wasn't about to provide the Steelers with a thorough scouting report.

"Athletic,'' said Jackson. "You guys have watched him, though. I don't want to talk about him too much. You've seen him play in games. The guy is big and long and athletic. So he's got talent."

Jackson said currently "nothing's change'' with the lineup but "we've got a week. We don't play until Sunday, so I'm going to figure it out, put the best five guys out there.''

He also said he'll make an announcement on it before the game but "I already know what it is. You just don't know what it is, that's all. I have a pretty good idea what it is, what it's going to be.''

The least of his worries would be Bitonio going back to left guard, where he was a Pro Bowl alternate last year and one of the best in the game.

"He's been working at tackle, he's been working at guard, so I think we'll be fine,'' he said. "Whatever we decide to do it's going to be what's best for the football team.''

Bitonio insisted he doesn't know if he'll be a guard or tackle for one of the biggest games of the season.

"I think coach is going to come back Wednesday and give us a definite answer,'' said Bitonio. "I'm ready for both, though. Whatever they put me at I'm ready to go and play some football finally."

Has he ever not known which position he'll be playing this close to the season?

"Yeah, in high school,'' he said.

Unusual?

"Yeah, it's different, for sure,'' he said. "Usually you have your five linemen, you're set to go. We're trying to get our best five guys out there. I just do what I'm told. That's a coach Jackson question, I'm ready to go out there and play whatever position he wants me to play.''

Unusual yes, but awkward, no.

"It's just trying to get the best five guys out there,'' he said. "I know he's going through his plan and Desmond hasn't gotten as much practice time so he's trying to see where he's at and Corbett is still working. It's taking a little more time than we would have hoped. But we didn't have (Kevin) Zeitler out there for a while either. We're going to need a few good days of practice, we're going to get a good rhythm going and we'll be fine for Pittsburgh."

Despite the left side shakeup and the fact Zeitler played only one series in preseason -- against the Lions -- because of a calf injury, Bitonio believes the line will come together in time for Sunday.

"Yeah, I think so,'' he said. "It's going to be a rookie most likely whoever I'm playing next to, so I'll be able to communicate with them and kind of understand and if I'm playing tackle we have J.C. (Tretter) in there and if I'm playing guard, we'll have Desmond out there but we'll be able to communicate and we'll be able to work together. I know Hubb and Zeitler are doing good things on the right side, so it will be good."

Does Bitonio have any input on the decision with Jackson considering he wasn't thrilled about moving to left tackle in the first place?

"No, he just tells me what to do,'' said Bitonio.

Agreed... a rookie mistake at LT could have dire consequences. Plus, it give our front office a chance to evaluate the O-line to see what additions might be needed.

Dawgs.

The Browns WILL NOT make this move right now.

It's STUPID. IGNORANT. After the last 4 weeks running Bitonio at LT.

If Jackson makes this move NOW, I've lost an IMMENSE amount of confidence in him.

Dumb, Dumb and Dumber.

I don't think they will make the change...yet. But...what if Harrison is showing well against Garrett? Or the light has come on for Robinson?

We survived last year with Drango out there...Harrison and Robinson surely are better. We had two OTs that needed help last year...if Harrison/Robinson need some help, we are still better off than last year after JT went down as Hubbard can do his thing by himself.

I would think that Bitonio the LG can better help the LT than Bitonio the LT can help the LG. JMO

The fact that Harrison is in this discussion is either really stupid or a really good sign

Has Harrison even practiced with the 1's ? If not then it's a dumb move to do now.

Would you care to explain how it could be really stupid? Do you think any of us know more about the players than the coaching staff does? LMAO.......you guys kill me.

Moving on: After reading Bitonio's comments, it's pretty freaking obvious that he thinks Harrison is "all that" and it's pretty obvious that he doesn't regard Corbett in the same light.

Hue's comments seem to echo Bitonio's. They talk about Harrison being "athletic" and "long." This team isn't goint to win the Super Bowl this year. It might not be a bad idea to plug the guy in if he is as talented as advertised.

I really don't have a prediction on who will start, but it sure seems like the Browns are far more excited about Harrison than they are about Corbett.

I'm not sure why you're coming at me ... I wasn't implying I knew 1/100th of what the coaches do. I was implying that it must be a good thing because I don't think anyone could be stupid enough to just randomly try this with a rookie (or talk about it).

Well, I read KWhip's post and then you said something about it being either really stupid or....

Why would it be stupid? Just curious.

Because hes a RAW ass Rookie who missed MOST OF CAMP with injury.

Is that not enough to classify it as STUPID this late in the game?

How bout the fact that for the last 4 or 5 weeks we've been running Bitonio/Corbett.

Now all of a sudden we're going to a RIPE ROOKIE?

It's STUPID

Are you resigning as captain of the ferry? LMAO

Dude, you should calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

It's stupid if they do it and it doesn't work. The coaches know things that we don't know.

My guess is that Bitonio doesn't have the frame, the feet, or the quicks to play LT well at this level. That's why he was drafted as a OG. He could fill in competently, but its not his forte. He's a really good OG and a so-so LT.

You mean... the same coaching staff that knows their players so well and who are so smart that they saw fit to put Shon Coleman in at starting left tackle at the beginning of training camp? Not OTAs. Not Mini-camp. But training camp, when it is far more important to prepare for the season, especially for the offensive line, and NOT to conduct peculiar position experiments.

And after the LT Shon Coleman experiment went down in flames, he was busted down first to 2nd string RT, then 3rd string RT, and was finally traded for a 7th round pick.

This super smart coaching staff you seem to hold in high regard couldn't look at last year's tape and figure out that not only was Coleman unfit to hold down the starting left tackle job, but couldn't even hold down the backup right tackle job, and was ultimately only worth a throwaway pick in next year's draft.

And this same coaching staff, which had an entire off season to come up with a some semblance of a sensible plan for the vital left tackle position, STILL DOESN'T QUITE KNOW who is starting at left tackle against the Steelers.

Versatile, I'll grant you that these coaches are smarter than the average fan, but barely so judging from this fiasco. I know it is impossible to replace the likes of Joe Thomas the very next season, but they didn't have to double down on stupid and flounder around like this.

Believe me, they are way smarter than the guys on this board when it comes to football decisions. We are replacing Joe "Freaking" Thomas. We didn't land Solder in FA. There were not any viable LTs at the top of the draft.

This was never going to be easy. It's just another venue for some of you to pile on Hue.

I fully understand and agree that the Browns were never going to get a top left tackle this off season.

I'll go a step further and say that they weren't going to get a very good or even a good left tackle either.

But it is not at all unreasonable to expect the Browns to find a JAG left tackle to hold down the position for the year, and get him into OTAs, mini-camp, and training camp so that he can work continuously with the rest of the offensive line. Anything to solidify that vital unit.

Instead, the Browns braintrust played musical chairs all during training camp with the left tackle position.

If experiments like moving Bitonio over to LT needed to be done, they should have been done during OTAs, not during the second week of training camp.

And I'm not necessarily blaming all of this on Hue. Where were Haley and Wiley in all of this? Aren't they supposed to know a thing or two about building an O-line, and help with the project by contributing their expertise?

And what about Dorsey? When Corbett was drafted, all the happy talk coming out of Berea was that he was the new left tackle because that's what he was in college. Nobody said anything different at the time. Not Dorsey, not Hue, not Haley, and not Wiley.

But then Joe Thomas casually notes in an interview that Corbett will never be an NFL tackle - he just doesn't have the proper build for it, but he can be a fine guard. All of a sudden, nobody in Berea is talking up Corbett at tackle any more! How is it that Joe Thomas had this figured out right away, but the Berea Clownshow did not?

All the Berea Braintrust had to do was to find a solid, stable JAG left tackle, plug him into the position early in the offseason workouts, and develop him from there.

Instead, the Browns floundered and flailed to produce the following:

• The GM drafted a guard he thought would be a left tackle but can't because he doesn't have the build for it. Doh!
• A tackle who couldn't even cut it as a 3rd string right tackle was plugged into left tackle and ultimately traded away for a bucket of rusty bolts.
• OL Coach Wiley says that moving Bitonio over to left tackle is Plan Z and the Clowns are currently on Plan B.
• Two days later, Hue slaps down his O-Line Coach, declares that, "I am the Big Decider around these here parts!", and moves Bitonio to left tackle.
• A fine left guard was moved out of position to left tackle nearly halfway through training camp, not during OTAs and mini-camp, and was replaced by a rookie. This move weakens both positions on the left side of the line at the same time. It should have been done during OTAs
• At the end of training camp, going into the first week of the season, the Browns still don't know for sure who is the left tackle. It might be Bitonio or it might be some rookie UDFA guy named Harrison. I hope Harrison proves to be a great surprise, but rookie UDFAs are usually quite a few steps below a JAG.

And all the Browns had to do this off season was find a JAG left tackle. This was a reasonable expectation - a simple and rational and not that hard of a plan.

Versatile, I highly respect your football knowledge which is greater than mine by far, but there is no way you can convince me that the Browns did an OK job with the left tackle position this off season. They blew it. Life experience teaches us that even very smart and experienced people can wind up making a long series of really stupid decisions. See: Vietnam War.

P.S. Versatile, I don't entirely mean to dump all this on you. I am clearly venting and spewing and foaming at the mouth. Here's the thing... for over thirty years I have been watching one Browns regime after another screw up the offensive line, which I regard as the most vital and important position group on the team. Over and over and over and over again and again I have watched the Berea Clownshow screw up the offensive line. For THIRTY YEARS NOW! So yeah, I get quite worked up and angry over this crap. I am beyond frustrated with it by this point.

I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire, Versatile, but so it goes.

Considering what we knew about all of the LT candidates at the begining of camp, attempting to move Coleman was acceptable. He was a veteran tackle on the team at that point. Giving him a shot was perfectly reasonable.

Not sure of the timeline but Harrison has his injury and Rod Johnson was determined not to be an option. They give their high draft choice lineman, Corbett, a chance to show something at left tackle. Again they quickly and wisely determined that he is not suitable for the LT position. The team pretty quickly moved on to Bitonio while Harrison continued to recover from his toe injury. They bring in Robinson who shows inconsistency as Harrison is coming back from injury and working with the 2's and 3's. Harrison continues to progress and Corbett begins to settle in at left guard. He hasn't reached Bitonio's level at the left guard position but Corbett does show some steady progress.

While this is taking place Harrison's development playing LT is getting noticed. All of the other evaluations have been done fairly quickly and decisively. The coaches' evaluation of Harrison's progress also must be formed quickly. They have made no secret that they want to best unit they can get as soon as they can get it. They arrive at a point where they must consider if Harrison's progress at LT has been sufficient that he can play LT well enough with Joel lined up next to him.

I don't know that answer but that's where I think they are and how they got there.

It's cool. I admire your passion. I also like how you take the time to express yourself. I enjoy your contrary nature. I find that refreshing because it gets people to think. And in my world, thinking is a good thing as opposed to set opinions.

This isn't known yet, but I am guessing the OL isn't going to be as bad as some of you think it's going to be. I thought it was going to be really bad, but man, some of these guys impressed me in preseason.

Corbett was functional at LG.

Bitonio was pretty darn good at LT.

Harrison caught my eye against Detroit. I didn't even know his name, but talked about him in the Postgame thread. I just said #69. Dude is athletic as all get out and he pancaked dudes. True pancakes.

It's a work in progress. They might start w/Bitonio and Corbett and then transition to Harrison and Bitonio. It might just be the opposite. I'm not sure why any of this is all that surprising considering we lost a HOF LT? LOL

I am not saying this w/certainity, but I have a good feeling about Harrison. I know what I saw against Detroit. Dude was awesome! I can read between the lines when reading Bitonio's and Hue's comments. This dude is an athletic marvel. Long, athletic. Good feet. Strong. Man!

I want to reiterate.........I am not saying he will be good. I'm just saying I have a pretty good feeling this guy might surprise us. He will almost certainly have growing pains, but does anyone think we were going to get anyone to be Joe Thomas?

I also like that our staff and FO are willing to give a guy like Harrison a chance over a guy who was drafted in the second round. That's pretty big, man. Performance over draft status!

You are an asset to the board.

I find it unlikely that the coaches are being flippant about the LT position. It's the most important position on the OL. Protecting the QB's blindside is everything. That's one thing we know just as well as the coaches.

So, obviously, they've seen SOMETHING from Harrison to warrant this discussion.

He's an interesting case: Elite prospect, but dominating a lower level of competition combined with off-field concerns tanked his draft stock. If his record off the field was clean, and played out his collegiate career as a Longhorn, we'd potentially be talking about a guy who could have been drafted top 10.

As Bitonio said in his most recent interview, Harrison has made some plays against the ones and has all the talents of a prototypical NFL LT. As Jackson has said, Desmond Harrison caught the attention of the coaches because he never stopped improving throughout the entire camp. Coaches are always going to fall for a guy if they're showing him his mistakes and then watching him correct it.

So, why is it dumb? I get that there is concern for a raw rookie being thrown into the fire, but I'd bet my bottom dollar the coaches have the same concerns and it's exactly why he hasn't already been named the starter.

However, there are some positives with this. As I mentioned earlier in the thread to Vers, it's easier to blood a rookie LG than a rookie LT. What I didn't mention, however, is that it's easier to help a rookie LT by giving him a TE to help. It's easier to trust Bitonio, Tretter, Zeitler and Hubbard (All veterans playing their natural position) with their responsibilities so any RB blocking can watch the QB's back.

It's also helpful that Tyrod Taylor is a mobile quarterback, so we're not talking about protecting a statue back there.

Combine this with that fact that Harrison has evidently earned this discussion. Again, no NFL coaching staff is flippant with their LT decision. For this to be a consideration shows that Harrison has clearly impressed.

I'm with you on Bitonio and Corbett, but it seems unfair to outright dismiss Harrison. The guy clearly deserves more credit than that. I don't understand why people get so mad when a young player thrusts himself into consideration. Can't we just be happy for a kid who is clearly making plays?

If you go look at most draft profiles on him he was rated among the top 10 LT prospects. I didn't say tackle prospects. Left tackle prospects.

Nice post.

I don't know if the dude is good enough, but I liked what I saw out of him when I didn't even know his damn name. That is documented.

And if you read Bitonio's and Hue's quotes about him they match up fairly perfectly. It's just a guess, but we might have found a diamond in the rough.

What they are thinking is that Joel at LG and Harrison at LT is a better combo than Joel at LT and Corbett at LG. Is that because Joel is that much better at LG or is it because Corbett is not so good at LG?

If I'm being totally honest, my first reaction (in my head) was much closer to kwhip's and others' "the sky is falling"/"these guys are all dummies" than anything else. A big part of that is I didn't know much about Harrison. I didn't know he was a top LT prospect that dropped for off-field stuff. I'll have to go back and look at that.

But that said, the main two reasons was because of the flippant nature Hue seems to have regarding the LT position, and the difference between TC/preseason and regular season games. Hue's demeanor is probably just gamesmanship on his part, but that last bit is the final sticking point that I don't have an answer to. Regular season is completely different from TC and preseason. I don't like the idea of throwing someone new in there that has basically had 0 reps with/against the starters just in time for our first real game against the Steelers. It's really unfortunate that Harrison wasn't available from the get go, but that doesn't mean we should rely on hope that he'll get himself ready for game 1.

I don't mind Hue's personality and style. He's over confident with all of his media interactions. I don't have a problem with that at all. Personally I like to under promise and over deliver in what I do - but as a HC I think you can be successful with many different approaches.

As for the talk of having a low round rookie LT start week 1 after missing much of TC and pre-season .... against the Steelers .... come on, let's be honest. On the face of it - it does sound far fetched and I doubt it will happen.

With that said - you simply have to have some trust in what the coaches and players see every day when they are behind closed doors. Harrison has to be real close to being a viable option. I doubt it will happen but if it does happen I would expect to be pleasantly surprised. . . . whenever he gets a shot at the LT spot I hope we found our replacement for Joe, because I would love to see Joel back to LG where he has been great since he was drafted.

j/c

Bullet points that I think are facts:

- We aren't used to ANY discussion about filling the LT position;

- There are other teams that would LOVE to have our 'problem' at LT;

- The FO made a huge effort to find/get a new LT in the off-season;

- Not even the most-critical S Coleman Browns fans could have imagined that he would regress like he did. Fail at LT? Sure...many posters predicted that. Fail to even be a backup at RT where he started 16 games last year? Nope.;

- Harrison was injured until early August. The coaches couldn't be sure what they had in him for x # of days/weeks;

- Fans have thought for years that Bitonio MIGHT be a logical heir-apparent to the LT position;

- Harrison has reportedly improved dramatically. That means we have a good prospect and he's getting some good coaching;

- In the end, if this kid can be the guy, we are much better for it.

So...what's not to like? Timing? I agree. I bet the coaches would love to have had Harrison available at the start of TC...but they didn't. No one could change that. As oobernoober stated, I'm not happy with Hue's flippant remarks about the LT position...but that is-what-it-is with Hue. It's put-up or bye-bye time for Hue...if we win, it's all good.