Just starting a thread as the legal tampering begins for track news and signing specific to the Browns.

Von Miller seems to be the one big name to watch out for on defense. Also, there is smoke about Allen Robinson on offense.

I've seen both those connections as well.

Benjamin Allbright alluded to Von Miller possibly reuniting with DC Joe Woods and getting to play alongside Myles. But if Miller listened to OBJ, there is no chance. Haha.

Say there is something to this. What do we do with the QB position?

don't fall for these "according to sources" crapolla

A team is always suppose to listen to offers it doesn't mean we are shopping him around.

Hey if somebody gives us a deal we cant' refuse Multiple 1st round picks maybe a player or two who knows. Our only option is to get another QB from the draft.

So we won't be doing anything regarding Baker all the rest is BS cause I'm a journalist and it makes for a story as he is a popular figure. Hey let me make up a scenario involving something with Baker...phew got this weeks money in the bag...lol

We are on the cusp of doing great things as a team lets build that D get another WR and win our division. Or we could cripple ourselves by getting a Watson not the figure we want to say who the Browns are. We better start working on signing Baker now and not wait where we end up losing him to FA.

we end up with a new FO in 2-3 years who will draft a QB with our 1st pick in the draft.

j/c...

I would say the over/under would be 2 years.

Of course the brown's aren't sold on Baker. If they were, they would have signed him to an extension.
Doesn't mean we are actively trying to trade him.

Bingo. Canvassing the league to find out a player's value is part of the job.

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
One more free-agent WR now available: Browns are releasing WR Jarvis Landry, per source.

Amari Cooper arriving, Landry departing.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1503405168477491200

I think Kirk will end up being too expensive but this shows that we are still on the lookout for wide receivers before the draft.

That's my thinking too...I heard rumblings a month ago that even Berrios was seeking 9 mll a year, which sounds steep imo...and Kirk is def. the better of the two, so they may price themselves out of our market.

I've seen $15 million per year for Kirk. That is too much for a slot receiver when we can just put Njoku or Hooper in the slot.

I think I'd rather see DPJ getting starter reps at inline TE than Hooper in the slot. Fortunately, I think they'd go to Felton before Hooper.

Hope he chooses to return, plan and act as if he has decided not to.

Browns really trying to make this as attractive as a situation as possible for Watson.

Allen Robinson, one year $8 million sounds about right.

Boooooo.

It doesn't make sense in my head that Berrios was on the Patriots and they cut him.

Was really hoping for Berrios, and that's actually a good deal for an ace of a returner and a solid slot guy. So far the only bargain signing I've seen.

Especially when they molded a lot of small slot guys over the years (Brown, Amendola, Welker) come to mind

I surely hope so!

Yeah, you and Milk were all over that one. He flew under my radar until your posts.

Would have been perfect. Economically speaking, 3yrs / 25M was a feasible contract.

We would have had two terrific route-runners straight out of the gate... at 2M less than we were paying last year.

And we'd have a %$^&* kick returner! The shores of Erie are famous for that epic roar. Closest we've been for years is "well, he's usually sure-handed, I don't know what happened there."

I trust Nate Ulrich with my life.

Yeah, he's good.

.

Never mind. I was duped.

After seeing Kirk’s contract, I’m not sure Robinson is for us

After the numbers came in all the way it wasn't as ridiculous as originally thought. He still got overpaid but it wasn't egregiously overpaid.

I liked Mack Wilson who never achieved his possibilities at ILB for us

So we went and got a rotational edge guy to give our starters a breather. btw any news on Takk? He still is on our roster. He gave us some good reps at DE before he went down.

Takk is a FA, and with his injury...may be awhile or into next season until he is able to sign with someone and pass a physical.

j/c...
Would have liked to have seen Stewart back with the Browns.

He went from backup to starter on a two year deal. Can’t blame him.

Already playing nice w/ Houston, I see.

I thought this might happen.

Not a fan of the move but I understand it.

Gotta create cap space for Watson.

This frees up what? $8 Million?

I kind of had a strong haunch last year (When we resigned Bitonio and Teller) that this was Tretters last year with us.

Yep. $8.2M.

Paging Case Keenum. Paging Case Keenum. Please bring your playbook and report to Andrew Berry's office.

I expect he'll find a job in relatively short order.

I don't know. They might want him to help teach Watson the offense, and/or fill in during the possible suspension.

Lol...I was wondering why Keenum and his contract are still both on our books. Also hoping we can rework John Johnson, Hooper, and possibly Coopers numbers...as it seems like the new norm.

Steelers shoring up their Oline with that James Daniels signing...and not a bad contract at all.

Is anyone comfortable with Harris at center? That has to be the move, correct?

j/c...

I'm not, while I like the guy I just don't know if he's ready. He's only taken 211 Oline snaps in 2 years and those snaps came in 3 games, in 2020 he filled in at RG for 2 games and struggled, last year he filled in 1 game at OC and played pretty good.

On the positive side, Tretter didn't practice much, so Harris got lots of work with Callahan.

Drafting and developing to replace expensive, aging veterans is what teams that stay good do.

Here's hoping we've done that developing.

moves like this just don't make sense to me... releasing a very good center making 8 million and franchise a guy who is the very definition of meh. not good. Oh hey deshaun, we got you a center thats barely played center at this level...welcome. We are in a bad cap situation

Yeah, got to trust Berry, KS and the coaching staff. I just wish he had a few more game snaps at Center.

Sure. Keep a teacher they don't trust to play. For a QB that has very little chance of ever coming here in the first place.

Watson might be a creep off the field but everyone says he is a grinder. First one in, last one out type of guy. I don’t think him picking up any offense would be a problem.

Yep. That's what she said and she said and she said, etc, etc, etc...........

But, yet not enough evidence to charge!!!

I'm not worried about him picking it up. I'd prefer he get up to speed as quickly as possible, though, so everyone else on O isn't "held up," if that's the direction they go.
Coaches are only allowed so much interaction with players during the off-season. Players can spend as much time with each other as they want.

We could still end up cutting him. I think he has some guarantees kick in on the 19th. Still have a few days before they need to make a decision.

Getting Watson could make them lean toward keeping him.

Baker probably doesn't need help picking up things here and doesn't have a possible suspension looming, so if no Watson, Keenum could be gone.

No need to do anything this instant.

The good thing about Watson is that he works with Quincy Avery in the off-season so he would be able to work on the offense then.

Even if he fails ... we have a guy named Blake!

Tretter is no surprise.

They have been grooming Harris for two years. They may draft a center.

There are things going down

And Michael Dunn. I trust Bill Callahan.

👍

Yes... Callahan is certainly worth trusting. I hope and believe no OL decision is made without 100% buy in from BC.

We’ve planned to release Tretter this offseason for the last two years. The drafting of Harris kinda showed that. Harris was serviceable the last few games we saw. Still don’t love losing Tretter.

The Pats bread and butter is to trade good players just past their peak. Oh wait, we didn't get anything.

There goes the leader of the Union...

j/c...

gotta wonder how many FA's are waiting to see where Watson lands.

A difference maker in himself and a hell of a mentor for JOK.

I don't really like this unless his injuries never fully recovered??? He wasn't great but he was solid and was good with the line calls - Harris looked good in his one start??? or was it two but he looked pretty good hope he can handle the job full time.

j/c:

Not a Prisco fan, generally, but here is his take.

Well, the board wanted hooper gone so

Njoku/Bryant are sufficient. Hooper never was worth it here.

If this rumor is true, you have to wonder what the he!! the Browns are doing when they are going to release a guy that's going to cost them 11.250M for a player not to be on the team. I was unaware that the Browns are so flush with cap money. To date - 2022 dead cap $6,464,721 before they add in Hooper's dead cap for 2022 alone. That's $10,214,721 dead cap in 2022 and counting while 2023 is off to a rip roaring start with 7.5M as a beginning dead cap debt.

Hooper's Post 6/1 cap hit
2022 - Avoid paying him his $9.5M in base salary; total $3.75M cap hit
2023 - Avoid paying him his $9.5M in base salary; total $7.5M cap hit

I'm curious about the timing. I don't think we are losing a ton by shipping him. Just a bummer we are flushing so much money down the toilet in doing so.

I think (guessing) that it is about allowing him to get a new contract now, today, when FA is beginning instead of holding onto him until June 1st because of some technicality. The league/NFLPA allows us to let him go and sign a new contract now, but it doesn't count for accounting purposes until after June 1. It's good for the players.

We informed others that we were releasing them last week (our starting FB is an example off the top of my head). The news cycle on Hooper was closed shortly after Njoku got franchised... until today.

Like I said, maybe I'm just trying too hard to read between the lines.

Ah, gotcha... and yeah, that IS a good point.

Maybe they were trying to trade or restructure him and finally decided they couldn't do either?

You can’t do post-June 1st cuts until the new league year starts.

Biggest Browns related news of the day I'm sure.

Good

McLaughlin started out great last year and then folded like a cheap suit.

Browns need a financial guy in the building to help with the future cap?

How much cap room do we have right now? Do we have enough for A Robinson and Clowney? Or do we still need to cut Keenam and re-do Cooper?

a well played quote.

this thread probably isn't going to see much more action at all... no Baker, no Watson, team imploding, etc.... who's going to want to come here?

I think you are overreacting.

Who's going to come here? People that are way, way overpaid.

Wait, I think there's a song:

That's fine. I don't think I am at all.

You're not. This organization looks like they'e driving a clown car right now. I wonder what Amari Cooper is thinking of his decision to come here right about now?

It wasn't his decision. He was traded to us.

He came from Dallas. This is a typical Tuesday for the Boys.

Clowney should jump on that, we'll see if the Baker situation is going to affect how players feel now. I think Clowney will be a good barometer.

I really hope Clowney will agree to terms with the Browns. This would be some great news and we all need it today!

CBS is saying the Browns just traded for Deshaun Watson - 5 years $230 million fully guaranteed.

I thought they didn't have the cap space to do things like this?

That’s what guys were claiming on this board. How many times did other posters tell you that NFL teams find cap space if they want to?

If they need space, they’ll find a way. Look at the Bucs as a perfect example. They find ways to keep players there.

It wasn't true at all.

There is plenty of ways to make room. Quite a few of us on here kept echoing that.

Look at the Saints they were buried with like -34,000,000 mil under the cap yet would have found the money for Watson ...

Since the Browns have thrown the 'high character' attribute out the window, maybe we can resign Malik McDowell if he doesn't go to jail for walked around naked out of his mind on whatever. Where is Greg Robinson? A little drug charge ain't crap when we're building a Juggernaut.

The Browns have more money than they know what to do with.

Can we get Antonio Brown?

I prefer Jarvis.

What about Josh Gordon??

Flash looks like a saint compared to what we currently have on the roster with hunt and watson

Yep, and now he could get a script.

JC....Any ideas or rumors of anyone coming in for FA?

With limited resources since trading away draft capital...And personally I think we still need two starting DTs, a starting DE (hopefully clowney re-signs) and probably another swing DE, maybe LB, a 3rd safety for Woods scheme, another TE to play in our 3 TE sets, at least another WR capable of starting, and a K and P...

No. But everyone was expecting Clowney news tonight. So there is that.

lets hope stefanski stops with the 3 TE sets, keep it at 2, and we try to get Will Fuller and run it back with Juice.

Well AB's crazy ass is out there holding up signs "Will work for Browns" now too.

All that and OL help. No Tretter and who knows what Conklin will be like. We are nowhere near SB contenders.

Character was long out of the window with the Browns they have left you posting on this board for years now!!!

Who cares about character, as long as a guy "plays like a Brown".

Sure we are. DW is going to hoist us up on his shoulders and waltz to a Lombardy. Easy peasy now that that slacker Baker is gone… /purple

I liked Fuller in Houston... biggest issue was he couldn't stay healthy... but solid deep threat and knows Watson well

Waltzing this year??

See the the '/purple'?

I expect Will Fuller to be here now. Cooper, Fuller, DPJ, then a mid range draft pick

Landry could resign.

This would be very nice

Sounds like we offered Clowney 2 years at $24m

I'd prefer Landry or even Jamison Crowder over Will Fuller

j/c...

I'm much more worried about the Defensive line. We've got adequate weapons on offense with Chubb, Hunt, Felton, Cooper, DPJ, Njoku, Bryant, and Schwartz.

I think I'd round out the offense with rookie contracts. Use the cap space we have available for vets on defense.

[quote=Milk Man]j/c...



[I don't think the pr team could explain that much disrespect towards women.

Hunt
Watson
AB

No thanks

I see AB never graduated 3rd grade.

Antonio Brown is a caricature at this point. And probably needs some mental help, so I try to avoid making many statements about him.

In terms of Landry, he might be willing to come back now. That will all depend on the cost.

Offer him (Landry) $8 mil thats about half his contract, to be back here with this teamitmight be enough ...

i know we dont want AB here.....but yall know he would go nuclear against the steelers twice a year. just for imagination purposes.

I just read that AJ Green was interested in joining Watson if he chose Atlanta. For a similar deal to what he had last year, he could be a good fit.

i doubt he comes to cleveland. he really does still ride with the bengals in his heart.

Much rather resign Landry than sign AJ Green ...

Yeah! I mean while he did walk around naked, at least he wasn't rubbing his junk up against women while he was naked. I mean that should count for something at this juncture, right?

Well, it looks like he actually might have rubbed up on that police officer he tussled with at some point.

At least he didn't sexually assault 22 women police officers. The bar set is pretty low now.

The Cleveland Browns offseason seemed to grind to a halt over the last few days waiting for QB Deshaun Watson to make a decision. The Browns were ruled out by Watson before an about-face and agreeing to be traded to the team.

Cleveland’s offseason so far has had a few moves:

Acquiring Watson in a trade
Seemingly keeping Case Keenum after giving him a $1 million roster bonus
Retained LB Anthony Walker for another year
Brought back OL Chris Hubbard for one year
Agreed to trade for WR Amari Cooper
Agreed to a deal with DT Taven Bryan
Agreed to trade LB Mack Wilson for DE Chase Winovich
Agreed to a deal with returner/receiver Jakeem Grant
Released WR Jarvis Landry
Released OL J.C. Tretter
Released TE Austin Hooper as a post-June 1st release
Lost DB M.J. Stewart to the Houston Texans
Lost WR Rashard Higgins to the Carolina Panthers
Received the 99th selection as a compensatory pick in the 2022 NFL draft
There are still needs on the team as well as areas that the Browns could find upgrades with players wanting to join a top-flight quarterback. Landry could return. Jadeveon Clowney seems like he could be interested in a return.

So what is left on the free-agent market that could intrigue Cleveland? At this time, kickers and punters were not included but the need is very obvious. Hopefully, the Browns can find answers there.

Defensive End

The addition of Winovich is helpful but a starting level player still could be needed here. Clowney, as we noted, would be a seamless fit returning to Cleveland after a very good year. Much of the rest of the market has been scooped up but there are still a few talents out there:

Clowney – While money is his priority, success with the Browns last year could help sell him to return.
Za’Darius Smith – Cut by Green Bay, Smith originally decided to return to Baltimore but changed his mind. He was hurt last year but has been very successful at rushing the passer. It will be interesting what he signs for compared to the four-year, $50 million deal with the Ravens.
Justin Houston – The veteran pass rusher didn’t have a great year in Indianapolis last year but is still strong and fast enough to make an impact despite not having the sack numbers some would like.
Arden Key – Washed out with Las Vegas, Key was reinvigorated with San Fransisco last year. Still young and coming off his best sack season, 6.5, Key could be a player to build with Myles Garrett.
Melvin Ingram – Similar to Houston, Ingram had a down year. Started with Pittsburgh but requested a trade. He finished strong with Kansas City and has a little pop left in his game.
Derek Barnett – Coming off his rookie contract, Barnett is known by Andrew Berry from Berry’s one year with Philadelphia. Barnett hasn’t been a huge sack guy but has had three seasons with five or more in his five years in the league.
Jerry Hughes – Another older veteran with some gas left in the tank, Hughes has played well for Buffalo and could look to come to another contender.
Interior Defensive Line

While the Bryan signing may be helpful, much like Winovich’s addition, the team still needs more here. Jordan Elliott and Tommy Togiai have not proven to be starting-level players yet.

Larry Ogunjobi – Had a bounce-back year as a 3-technique with Cincinnati, a playoff foot injury and surgery caused him to fail his physical with Chicago. Perhaps one year back in Cleveland at his proper role, instead of as a 1-technique nose tackle, will help reset his market.
Calais Campbell – Listed as a defensive end for the Ravens odd-front defense, Campbell is another veteran that may have lost a step but is still productive. His huge frame would make him a great force on the inside with Garrett on the outside.
Ndamukong Suh – Even at 35, Suh is a quality defensive tackle with an amazing physique and technique. Tampa Bay has been bringing everyone back but may run out of cap space at some point.
Akiem Hicks – The big burly Hicks has been disruptive but may be hitting the wall in terms of being highly productive for a few more years. Despite that, he could be a helpful piece of the puzzle in Cleveland.
Linval Joseph – The huge Joseph is another 30+ year old that could be a role player for the Browns as a space-eater in the middle with strength.

Safety

With M.J. Stewart in Houston and Ronnie Harrison a free agent, safety is a position the Browns need to look to address. There are a few names left at the top of the list:

Tyrann Mathieu – The Honey Badger played with Watson in Houston and is no stranger to getting second chances. An amazing leader with a great defensive IQ, Mathieu isn’t the perfect fit next to John Johnson III and Grant Delpit but they could make it work.
Landon Collins – Another safety that doesn’t exactly fit next to the other two, but neither did Harrison, is Collins. More of a safety/linebacker, Collins can do a lot of good things to help Cleveland’s defense if the price is right.
Terrell Edmunds – The former Steeler is young but has not lived up to his draft slot to the point that Pittsburgh declined his fifth-year option. Still, athletic enough to grow and develop he could come in and help the Browns, again, if the price is right.
DeShon Elliott – Another former AFC North rival, Elliott has been hit or miss with Baltimore but some of that was due to injuries. A new location could be very helpful and provide the Browns with good depth.
Jayron Kearse – Bounced around the league a little bit but has shown to be a starting level safety with Dallas last year.


Wide Receiver

With Amari Cooper on the team but having moved the 13th pick, Cleveland could be looking for another receiver in free agency and one in the NFL draft as well. Interestingly, two of the names on this list are former Browns. One is highly unlikely, the other more so.

Will Fuller – There had been rumors that Fuller would follow Watson wherever he went. Former teammates in Houston, where Fuller had 8 touchdowns with Watson in 2020, the speedy receiver was hurt most of last season with Miami. Injuries have been a problem much of his career with him only playing more than 11 games one season in his six-year career. His ability to make big plays is tantalizing.
Jarvis Landry – Discussed more here, Landry is a solid slot receiver but his huge contract did not fit his production.
Odell Beckham Jr. – While a return is close to 0% likely, Beckham showed his talents with Los Angeles as a secondary playmaker. With Cooper in Cleveland and Watson running the show, a return would make for an interesting story. He also tore his ACL and may only play late in the 2022 season and playoffs.
Julio Jones – Another big name whose game has fallen off, Tennessee released Jones after trading a second-round pick just last year to get him. Injuries are a lingering concern for the once-great pass catcher.
Jamison Crowder – Similar to Fuller, Crowder can make plays but struggles to stay on the field. With Cleveland working to build depth, they could take a risk on one of the injury-prone guys and then take precautions to keep them healthy.

Tight Ends

With Hooper gone, David Njoku and Harrison Bryant are the two main tight ends in Cleveland. Kevin Stefanski likes to use a few of them so signing one in free agency is possible but maybe not a big name from this list:

Rob Gronkowski – Seems like Gronk is heading back to Tampa Bay but could be a fun addition with the Browns.
Gerald Everett – More a tight end by name, wide receiver by game, Everett is a solid pass-catching option.
Kyle Rudolph – Discussed when he got released, Rudolph knows Stefanski and could benefit from a reunion.
Jimmy Graham – Far more name than game at this point, Graham only played 23% of his team’s snaps last year.
Jared Cook – Besides sharing a first name with this author, Cook has been a solid tight end in the NFL for years. Last year with the Los Angeles Chargers, Cook had 564 yards receiving and 4 touchdowns. The two years before that he combined for 16 touchdowns.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Good move by Berry. Getting something for a guy that wasn't going to be here.

Obviously, we need a backup QB.

Who is out there?

Mariota
Winston
Newton
Brissett

I guess these are the one that appeal to me most considering they have played a significant time as a starter in the NFL and we don't know anything about Watson's suspension status.

What are the chances we hold on to Baker until the Watson suspension stuff is solidified? I mean Watson’s salary for this first year is pretty small. Maybe we make Baker play the first 6 games then trade him?

I know it’s a long, weird shot … but I thought of it

Evidently they don't think Case Keenum was good enough to win during DW's suspension ...

Within 24 hours … sign Watson, trade Keenum, sign Brissett … Baker next

nice backup signing

I was hoping it would be Brissett ...

I'm just fine with this QB signing. But I want to hear Clowney is staying today and would like to hear what we are getting for Baker.

Basically paying $1 million for a 7th round draft pick.

Any difference in cap him between trading Keenum and cutting him?

His career stats are not all that bad 36 TD to 17 INT. 60% completion percentage and a QBR of 83.

He has been a starter in the league with a just under .500% win percentage.

I think as a back up QB it is really good value. He also, should be a decent fill in if Deshaun does get suspended. Hopefully, not more than 6 games but well see.

Good pick up!!!

the cap is definitely a myth.

So basically we made more cap space this year … that spells Clowney/Landry/Robert Woods/etc

I'm gonna go with 0%.

Yeah, 0% now that we signed Brissett

We are pretty good on picks right now. When we trade baker, I would seek a pick next year. A future pick is worth less to a team than a current pick, so we might be able to get maximum value in the pick. We might be able to leverage it in to a conditional if baker plays well.

Seeing that we are down a 1st rounder, a extra pick in the 2n-3rd-4th round might be handy...I listed those picks because I have no idea what worth teams might place on Mayfield.

\
Well it was reported a day or two ago that Seattle offered a 2 and 3 ...

I think Berry will get a first minimum for Baker. I know everyone thinks I'm crazy. Healthy Baker is a damn good QB. Maybe not top ten, but easily not bottom 10.

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if we recoup a 1st. A lot depends on leverage. Teams know we have to trade him now, which is why I think we wanted to clear cap space to show that we don’t.

There is zero reason to cut him. His contract is fully guaranteed even if he's at home on the couch. We have leverage. If nobody offers a fair price, just keep him on the roster right up to the trade deadline. Somebody's starter will go down, happens almost every year.

Takes 2 teams wanting him and the price goes up ...

And he is easily the best looking option on the QB market now, unless you think an older Ryan is the better option. Not me.

A 4 year starter who took his team to its first playoff in 18 years and their first playoff win in 26 years yea he should bring a 1st ...

An analytic dream when healthy. Major injury concerns.

No Thanks I want Landry back ...

i'd take both of them. amari and fuller outside, landry in the slot. devastation.

How about the Lions at pick #32....

Agreed, I'm no fan of Fuller...he has soft tissue injuries all the time, ontop of "norm" injuries and he drops some big balls...outside of his excellent speed and solid frame...imho I think he's one of the most overrated WRs

That's good thinking, and yeah I'm hoping we can at least get a late 2nd rounder for Baker...don't get me wrong a 1st would be awesome, but I highly doubt it as well.

Most teams feel a second this year is the same as a future first. I'd take a first next year.

Scratch off any Robert Woods talk, he's now a Titan

C'mon Swish!! "devastation"?

...He's talking about our depth chart after the annual injuries hit.

$23,176,093 according to spotrac

+$18,858,000 > Baker
+*$9.5M > Hooper

^
$51,534,093

Minus:

--Brissett
--Grant
--Hubbard

Is this including the 8-9 Mil that came of the books from Keenum?

Yes it does figure that in.

Just wondering

Don't know how credible this is .... so take it for what it's worth.

That would be a great signing getting him back ...

It was posted yesterday and hasn't been confirmed by anyone with a checkmark, so I'm guessing not very credible.

It would be nice to have him back.

man i hope this is true!

[social:tweet]https://twitter.com/God_Son80/status/1502433520781824002[/social

still has Brown's gear on his profile.

I keep seeing the rumors that Clowney will re-sign. Hoping for the official thing soon

Vikings paid Hunter's $18M roster bonus on Sunday.

Before everyone gets excited about the available cap that the Browns currently have and forth coming, it should be known that some of these major cap restructures the Browns are doing to free up cap this year still has to be accounted for somewhere down the line.

To gain the extra cap this year, The Browns have restructured many contracts.

Let’s look, for instance, at a player like Cooper that had a 60M base salary and 3-years remaining on his contract @ 20M per year in base salaries and no guarantees. That would also count for $20 million per year against the salary cap.

However, the Browns converted 18.88M to a signing bonus payable in 2022, the bonus cap charges were divided across the next 5-years adding two void years to the deal at at 3.776 per year. So, the Browns cap hit in 2022 is now 4.896M but it's raises too 23.776M in 2023, $23.776M in 2024, a 2025 void year at 3.776M and finally a 2026 void year of 3.776M.

NFL teams now are routinely converting base salaries and roster bonuses into signing bonuses -- paying the players up front and guaranteeing their money, while dividing the cap charges into future years. The bad part is teams are also routinely adding years to the end of players’ contracts that are scheduled to automatically void at a later date.

There is no penalty, such as a tax or interest rate, for doing that. The biggest drawback is that players will incur huge cap charges in future years. And when they get released or retire or their contracts void, there is more “dead money” waiting to hit the cap.

For instance, the Browns did this with Clowney's 1 year deal moving his base to a bonus spread across 2-years and are incurring a 3.6M cap charge in 2022 from Clowney's past signing bonus.

Watson is a whole other kind of animal due to the enormous size of it. NFL guidelines limit the number of years that a team can spread out the bonus to 5-years max. Watson is signing a 5-year 230M guaranteed contract. Broken down evenly, the Browns would have paid Watson a base salary of 46M each year. Instead, the Browns converted $44,965,000 of his first-year salary to a bonus leaving him with a 1.035M base salary in 2022 with one-fifth of the bonus at 8.993M for a cap hit of only 10.028M in 2022. The payback becomes evident in years 2 thru 5 where now the cap hit is scheduled to be 54.993M per season. Any future restructures will only balloon future years and possibly add void years. The biggest issue going forward is the entire contract was guaranteed so the Browns will never have an out from the cap hits unless a willing trade partner is found.

“In terms of contract structure, it was a home run for Myles Garrett. This contract is basically a throwback to 2003-2005 as the Browns went to the double option strategy here. An option bonus is a way to throw another signing bonus into a contract.”

Cleveland did one [option bonus] in the 2nd year and 3rd year of the contract. He has a $21 million signing bonus, then the first option bonus is $20.7 million, and then $17.97 million for his 2nd option bonus. We’re looking at a total of $59.67 million in prorated bonus money, at signing. That’s insane, that’s crazy. The Browns were able to get the extra years, but that is absolutely insane. All these options are basically fully guaranteed. In 2023, most of his salary becomes fully guaranteed at the end of 2022. Your cost to cut in 2023 is about $45 million in dead cap. He’s really protected through four years of this deal.

2021: $9.35M (before the extension, would’ve been $15.184M)
2022: 12.96M
2023: $29.18M
2024: $32.12M
2025: $27.5M
2026: $28.6M

Usually, teams have the idea of front-loading a contract, which gives teams more flexibility against the cap to cut a player later in their deal if they don’t pan out. However, the Browns, when you factor in the option bonus and when certain years of his base salary start becoming fully guaranteed, have back-loaded the contract. This is at the core of what makes it a player-friendly deal, because for Garrett, he’s going to collect all that money, while the Browns just have to live with however he's plays.

To help with the math, Cooper, Watson and Garrett will have cap charges totaling 107.949M for just 3 players in 2023 and going up in future years. The NFL team cap number for 2022 is 208.2M not counting carryover cap. To put it in perspective since we do not know 2023's cap yet, these 3 players 2023 cap hit would eat up 51.8% of the 2022 cap. This is what they mean when it's said you're "ENTERING CAP HELL."

Saint signed Winston, Colts signed Ryan, Falcons took Mariota, so that leaves the Seahawks with no QB and the Niners still trying to move Jimmy G. Am I missing anyone?

Carolina, unless you think Sam Darnold is better. I don't.

Or Seahawks just roll with Lock for a year, avoid taking on Baker's $18.9M cap hit and use the draft capital in the Wilson trade to target a QB in the 2023 draft. Maybe they do decide to bring in Baker to compete for a starting job though. We'll see.

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...son-why-the-seahawks-have-a-ton-of-faith

I think Carolina is rolling with a QB in the draft (ie. Pickett).

Baker (and his contract) has turned into the old maid

Again, don't listen to steve0255 about the cap. Or if players will want to play for Stefanski.

If I'm not mistaken they are on the hook for Darnolds fifth year option. Trade for Baker and now you're paying $36m for Maynold.

That would suck.

Yep. It looks like the only way the Panthers get can out of from under Darnold's $18.8M cap hit is a post-6/1 trade and that's not happening.

What could happen is, to facilitrate a trade, for the Browns and Baker to restructure his contract to a 1 year deal, with $7 million or so converted to a signing bonus, thus making his salary more palatable to other teams.

Bagging on someone's opinion without ANY explanation as to why you are bagging on it is soooo pathetic.

The cap is an issue...it's oftentimes "manageable" but it IS an issue. The center of our "vaunted" OL is now gone due to the cap. Cooper Hooper is - and will be - the gift that keeps on dropping the ball while pounding the cap.

Stefanski has had two diva/stud WRs bail on him...it's not something to be completely ignored.

Guys... Wentz got the Colts a 3rd and (probably) a 2nd.

Maybe we just need to win a game of chicken, but Mayfield, IMO, is better than Wentz. Berry will figure it out.

I agree 100% Baker is better than Wentz - but the timing and perceived value for Baker has gone. Colts sold early with the perception that multiple teams would all be in the running. There are only 2 perceived teams that need a QB now ... I doubt we get near what Wentz got. . . . At this rate if Seattle doesn't trade for him I would not be surprised if Baker ends up with the Steelers.

Bart Scott is an idiot then. But he's a talking head so what do we expect?

Well, when someone previously calls the entire rest of the board low IQ, then completely ignored facets of an issue, they should expect some pushback. The new TV deals go into effect next year, they will have a big effect in how much the cap goes up. Using an old salary cap number to look at future percentage of cap is mistaken at best. Thus, don't listen to him about the cap. He talked about players not wanting to play for Stefanski with regards to Watson when it looked like he was going elsewhere. Watson ended up here. Thus, don't listen to him on whether players will want to play for Stefanski.

cfrs wasn't bagging on an opinion. steve's info has been wrong. I thought the quoted post was rather matter of fact about it.

Tretter isn't gone simply due to the cap. He's over 30 and hardly practiced because his body is breaking down. His replacement was deemed ready. Yes, there's a value component with regards to the cap, but I believe it had more to do with the basic realities of playing in a capped league than it did with our particular cap situation. You want to be replacing old, expensive players with younger, cheaper players when possible.

The team had one receiver bail. Was it due to Stefanski or Baker? OBJ's dad seemed to blame the QB. Landry was willing to stay. His complaint was about the contract. It's been reported that he wanted a longer contract than the team was offering. Why would you want a longer offer if you didn't want to play for the coach?

Somebody should tell them that he's a terrible QB and nobody will give that.

Bakers market is zilch. We are probably stuck with the guy. I just saw something that Seattle is going with Drew Lock on a 1.5 mil contract.

If we can even trade the guy, we will probably have to eat most of his salary. The odds are good we will keep him as a non active player. I wouldn't expect to get much if anything for him. I doubt we can give his salary away.

I'm not sure Baker will like the contracts offered to him next year when he held out after having a bad season.

He might not even get Drew Lock money. Teams likely won't want a guy that sulks in the corner when things don't go his way.

We will hold onto Baker until he reworks his deal. That's how I see it.

Well we heard Berry and KS say multiple times Baker was their guy --- so the Seattle announcement or however that is being released could just as easily change. But it could just as easily be the case.

What probably doesn't help - teams like Seattle might be in full tank mode due to the anticipated excellent draft class for QB's next year .... Panthers might be there too. I would have thought Pete Carol was too old to go through that chit ... and Rhule in Charlotte is very much under the gun and probably won't be a HC next year, so you'd think there would be some pressure to win this season for both organization? Drew Lock is a far worse option than a healthy Baker. But we'll see.

Could be. Seeing how other teams aren't showing much interest he may be feeling like this is his last big payday for a while and not have interest in doing so. He will be losing the Progressive gig for whatever that was worth so the 18 mil we will owe might sound pretty good.

I hope something can be worked out, but I am not very hopeful. The best bet is some QB gets hurt in camp.

Barring an injury to another starting QB that forces a team to trade for him, I envision us sitting him at home and then he becomes a free agent next year.
We get nothing, he loses a year. We pay $18million for nothing.

The best move for the Browns would be a new two year deal that lowers his annual price tag to make him more tradeable.... but, that's not a great deal for Baker's camp except that it gets him out of here. He's getting $18 million this year and then he's a free agent. That's a better deal for him.

Funny how they hated Cowherd for dissing Baker. Now they're promoting every Cowherd wannabe be that bags on Baker. Some Browns fans seem as two faced as Benedict Arnold.

I don't disagree with anything in your reply. When I read Steve's post on these matters, I see what I underlined above.

Tretter was a top (x) C last year and showed no drop-off...IMO if his contract was 6mil instead of 10mil, he'd be here for 2022 (final year). I see that as a cap casualty.

Watson signed the biggest contract in QB history, right? He was reportedly "out"...then this crazy GUARANTEED contract hit the inter-webs. Could be Ski...could be the $$$. Could be both. I wasn't thinking Landry when Steve brought up Diggs...then OBJ...then stats to backup the reduction in throws/targets...just considered his opinion. Reportedly, Landry wants multiple years and the Browns want(ed) a ONE year deal. Who really knows?

I find Steve's posts to be informative...he makes his points very well. That doesn't mean I agree with every comment he makes, but chicken dropping response like cfrs had up there deserves a bigger backlash response than Steve deserves for throwing out an actual opinion with a lot of thought behind it/them. JMO

-Jc-

If I’m the browns, I give Baker the Carson Palmer treatment. I let him sit, you already have to pay him even if you cut him, so let him sit. In the event that some playoff contending team loses their QB, perhaps you can get a 3rd/conditional 2nd for him.

I like Baker but his ceiling is 11-15th, I don’t think he would ever be a top 10, definitely not a top 5 QB. I don’t agree with Bart Scott, A healthy Baker is a viable QB option.

Any news on Clowney and Landry!? I had heard we were going to try and resign both of them. Assuming that Watson’s impending suspension will probably be 4-6 games, bringing back pretty much last year’s team with Watson and Cooper would put us in the SB contender seat, IMO.

Hopefully Landry and Clowney agree and want to come back.

Why do you think the suspension will "probably be 4-6 games"?

No thanks.

Hell no.

I'm definitely fine with Jarvis. With Watson on the team, I don't really feel I have a leg to stand on if it came to complaining about adding OBJ. I doubt it happens, though. Pretty sure that bridge is burned, stirred, re-burned, and hauled away.

Why not? We brought in a new QB who threw a tantrum to get out of Houston because they wouldn't let him pick his own HC and many fans are welcoming him with open arms? We see what OBJ can do with a QB he wants to play with. So why is it when OBJ throws a tantrum he's shunned but when Watson threw a tantrum to get out of town he is the savior? And remember, the QB we brought in made it clear he didn't want to be here until we offered to bribe him by making him the highest paying player in the NFL.

OBJ has been injured the last 6 years and probably wants near the same kinda of money NYG gave him per year. Nah, I'm good.

Landry is a slot WR and really nothing more. I don't think we need to be paying even half the amount of money for a below average speed guy nearing, or at, 30.

I think it's simply time to move on from both of them.

When it looks lie DPJ is your #2, I'd be lobbying for all the help I could get too.

Here are current projected depth charts. Where does he fit outside of potentially Car or Sea? Backup to Jax, Ten, Oak or Dal maybe? None of them will give a 1st rounder (or even a 2nd) to be backup.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB

I suspect he'll be a post June 1 cut so we can put half his 18m to next year.

14 WRs in the 2022 Top 100 Free Agents list originally were available - only 4 left - 2 are former Browns and one is almost 34 years old. 75 out of all the Top 100 Free Agents have signed everywhere but Cleveland. IMHO, there's a reason the free agents aren't considering Cleveland as a destination. Still missing 2 starting DT's, 1 starting DE, an upgrade at LB, and 1 starting WR with no 1st round pick and a 4th rounder gone. Even with the addition of Watson, nobody seems to be beating down the door to get to Cleveland. Thoughts?

Granted...not many options left...The one that no one is talking about that could possibly be good for him is Detroit. Who has Jared Goff. (anyone know how they feel about Goff after last year? He didn't really light anything up) They are still building...they have 2 First Rounders...Honestly, 18 mil for a solid QB is a decent price to pay...He is a better option than any QB in this draft class and after the Matt Patricia years...then going 3-13 this year...can Dan Campbell afford to tank in order to try to get a shot at next years class??? It could be argued that they could give Baker a shot...and he might give them reason to not go for QB next year...If he doesn't it means the Lions will probably be still in the running for one of next years QB class...and Baker's salary is a non issue as he would be a FA.

I think Carolina could do a similar thing...if it works out...great...if not...they aren't taking a salary cap hit to get rid of him and should still be in play for one of the Star QB's.

Seattle...not sure why they are putting their eggs in Drew Lock's basket...except that it was a means to stay stable because they knew they were not going to have Russel Wilson...I think they should make a play and maybe they will but I think they feel they can wait till the price is lower...

One thought or two--- Why does it have to be in one direction from the player to team? The Browns traded for their #1. Maybe we aren't beating down the door to sign any of the remaining FAs? I think the Browns are pretty decent at playing the waiting game for certain players and/or position groups once the first wave or two of FA has been completed.

Also, it's possible that until the $18M guaranteed contract is settled for Baker, the Browns are waiting for that money (or a portion of it) to be freed up?

#FreeBakersContract

or they plan on drafting a WR or 2 with their 2nd and 3rd round picks, this year.

At 18mil with 1 year left, nobody is going to give a 1st or 2nd.

Yeah, I read it as Browns...

I was wondering about the same thing. $18M is a pretty sizable chunk of change.

Well, he was a Brown at one point.

That's a possibility as well, I suppose.

Unfortunately,

That does not apply in this case ... the 18.9M is all dead cap in 2022 unless we can trade him.

If he was seen as a viable starter, one who is at least above average, then someone would be willing to take that 18M salary. It seems that he is not seen to be that.

Ok, so let's say the Browns draft a WR or 2 as you say in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Who's the two starting DT's? Who's the starting DE? Who's the new starting LB? Berry has said multiple times that they evaluate every player and position and look for upgrades. Wasn't Anthony Schwartz a 3rd round draft pick last year? Realistically, would another 3rd round pick be an upgrade to the WR group?

The Browns had about 16 defensive tackles that could realistically start as recently as August of 2021, I'm sure a few of them are left, they should be plenty fine in the defensive tackle and defensive end department.

It's not the 18.9M contract that's stopping teams from trading for Mayfield, it's the Browns unrealistic asking price of a 1st round pick.

Stop it.

FWIW, I heard that the one year left on the Jimmy Garapolo contract was around a $27 million cap hit.

I didn't include Detroit because I think I remember them saying how much they like their backup and they're likely stuck with Goff. He has a 31m cap hit if he stays on the team and 41m if cut (of course he could be a June 1 cut, but Baker's salary would bring them right back up to 39m with the split dead cap). I think he stays on the team for the year and gets cut in the offseason next year when they only have 10m in dead cap. I have seen a couple talking heads bring up Detroit though.

Seriously, they have gone defense, defense, more defense, and add on defense to no avail for many years and many tries.
Realistically, whomever they draft in the 2nd or 3rd round on the d line,
Are they going to be better than JOK, or Jordan Elliott, or John Hughes, or Larry Ogunjobi,

They have talent developing in players like Sheldon Day and Ifeadi Odinigbo, plus, you ask who is the new starting linebacker?
Really? They have about 6-10 starting caliber linebackers ,how many do they put on the field? 2, maybe 3.
They have Phillips, and Takk McKinley, and they guy everybody loved but I didn't who sat on the PS most of 2021, but was active in 2020 the De.
They still have Malcolm Smith, had Mack Wilson but traded, but they got the linebacker that replace Mack Wilson, in the Mack Wilson Trade some new player.
They have Anthony Walker back, and Sione Taki Taki is another year better,

On offense, the Browns have needs, and they have taken years, along with the NFL taking years to prove that offenseive effectiveness is what wins in the NFL, including the passing game, including passing to 'good' wide receivers.

The Browns need wide receviers, and the sooner they stop putting Wide Receiver at the 6th place to bottom of the list 12th place, even behind Kicker, the sooner they'll climb out of the basement of the AFC North.

So seriously, you talk about the developing talent at DT - where the heck were they last year. The stats don't lie - the Browns DT's in 2021 where at the bottom of the league in run defense and non existent in the pass rush. The guys you mention were backups to the guys that posted those weak numbers. If the Browns are going to go that route, then they are not upgrading the DT position. At DE, Clowney surprised last year with the type of year that he had. Let's candid, Clowney's production greatly enhanced what Garrett was able to do on the field. Without Clowney (and backups filling in at DT as you suggest) it can be safely said that Garrett's numbers will plunge. Poor D-line play equals huge pressure on the LB's for the run & the LB's and CB's against the pass. The upgrade at MLB was specifically pointed at stopping the run and having the quickness to go sideline to sideline - the Browns do not have that at this time.

I totally agree with the WR analysis. Resigning Landry and counting on Peoples-Jones is not upgrading the WR group. I fully expect Njoku to disappoint - IMHO it was a horrible deal to franchise him. I think they missed the boat in FA, they passed on numerous upgrades and had additional moves that they could have and should have made to solidify the position. That is unless of course they could have participated in the WR market because IMHO, WR's didn't give Cleveland a thought due to the Stefanski scheme and his history of pass play reduction. Posters here will say that it was all Baker's fault, in Minnesota it was because they had Cook, in 2022 it'll be interesting to see who gets the blame when Watson's numbers get reduced by 20% to 30% his normal production level.

To back up my claims - in 2021 PFF Ranked the Browns DT's as follows:

Jackson - Grade 44.4 - rank 99 out of 110 players ranked
Elliott - Grade 41.6 - rank 103 out of 110 players ranked
McDowell - Grade 46.5 - rank 93 out of 110 players ranked

To think that these guys backups in 2021 will be an upgrade in 2022 is just to plain funny to address.

So, the Browns don't have a 1st round pick and only 1 second round pick. Where do you use it when you have 3 DT's ranked in the bottom 15% of the league or do you use it at WR to replace Landry and DPJ who were ranked in the bottom 20% of the league. Don't say we have 3rd round picks - we got Schwartz with a 3rd rounder last year - how's that worked out?

j/c...

Again the point is---

Upgrading the defense won't translate into wins, when the offense is terrible. (The same story for 25 years, it's like the big bad wolf, except the little pigs keep building houses of sticks and straw over and over and over again.)

Except for the 3 times in 25 years they invested in Wide Receiver as a priority, they made the playoffs 1.5 years later. And almost in 2007.

I just want to take a minute to thank you for your contributions in these threads. Guys like you and Grateful are the heartbeat of this place. It's great to have a one-stop Browns News aggregator, and Dutiful Dawgs like you guys make it particularly content-rich.

Thank you.


Greg Newsome is a fresh breath. On the field, he's 100%. On the camera, he represents Our Tribe well.

I find it funny that now that we have Watson, WR is a top priority because the Browns haven't invested in WR as a priority in 25 years. Mayfield played a year and a half without a #1 WR - then through his own post season admission, Mayfield ended up playing 3/4 of the year with a #2 WR that said he was unable to perform up to expectations due to his injuries. Now it's an issue for our new QB? I find it funny that 90% of the top teams in this league have coaches that build their offenses to the skill sets of their players while the Browns have a coach that's in the other 10% that expects players to adjust to the scheme that's in place without exception.

Look, if you're going to run a scheme where 17 - 20 points should be enough to win then you must have a defense that's built to allow less than 17 - 20 points per game. I am totally on-board with your WR needs and it appeared to be priority heading into the off season. The Defensive Line was also appeared to be a priority heading into the off season. The question now is if those positions cannot be upgraded due to the unplanned upgrade at QB, which positions are the lessor evil to not upgrade?

Maybe with Watson and an upgraded WR set the Browns will become a 27 - 30 point per game team (of course the scheme would have to change to score that many points of which I have my doubts). However, going pat with your current backups or even less talented players than what you had in 2021 on the D-line at 3 out of the 4 positions with no upgrade at Inside LB will certainly mean the defense will "NOT" be allowing less than the 17 - 20 points per game goal. Pick your poison - neither is an ideal situation. The ball is in Berry's court and IMHO, I don't like what's happening in its totality but there's still a lot of off-season to go but I wonder who the scape goat will be in 2022 if things go south because one or both of the needs weren't addressed with upgrades - time will tell.

I think you can add cfrs15 into the contribution end also
jmho

"Browns have a coach that's in the other 10% that expects players to adjust to the scheme that's in place without exception."

Honestly, I do not think believe that.

Stefanski will begin his third year as a head coach. His first year with the Browns he developed the offense around the skills of the players.

Chubb, Hunt and the OL were heartbeat of the offense and rightfully so. They were the strength of the offense.

Baker was given a to do list to improve his footwork. It was determined based upon Baker's skill set to run a play action pass attack because of the skills and strength of the run game. It also allowed Baker space to provide downfield vision. The playaction rolls to the left and right were fitted to Baker. He is good throwing off movement. He is not good in the pocket reading defenses.

2021 in many ways has to be thrown out. It was a mess with injuries and other issues off and on the field.
Stefanski made errors as well so it is not like he gets a free pass. When you have an quarterback limited by inury. You have your hands tied. Third and ten draw plays are not normal.

I have stated this before and will so again. Coaches learn from experience like we all do. KS is not the same today as he was as a OC with the Vikings.

The 2022 offense will not be the same.

We'll have to agree to disagree - I don't expect changes in the offense with Stefanski calling the plays. Even if you disregard 2021 (the Browns obviously haven't by laying all the blame on Mayfield), Stefanski's trend is to diminish the pass and focus on the run. I expect the same scheme in 2022 - he hasn't shown me the ability to adjust and definitely doesn't build to the skill sets of his players.

Let's see what he does with a QB that he had some input on the choice of. How collaborative was the process of setting up the weekly play sheet between Stefanski and Baker? If Baker told Stefanski these are the plays I like, then failed to execute those plays, whose fault is it?

Hopefully we'll be able to stay healthier this season. That alone would help a lot.

I don't think you can fairly say the Browns haven't invested in wide receivers. I hope I am not missing your point or taking you out of context. But when they signed Landry to a mega deal and then traded for OBJ, those were enormous investments. Hooper was, too. They didn't pan out so well, of course. Sometimes I wonder why Baker, who had two terrific seasons here and two bad ones, could never seem to "gel" with the receivers he had. Landry was injured last year, OBJ the year before. I don't think it is fair to blame all of this on Baker, because if he had just shut it down and had surgery early last season, we'd all still think he was our QB of the future. I am as conflicted about it all as any Browns fan. But they HAVE invested in wide receivers.

I think that's to be seen. This year will tell a lot. I agree that Baker seemed to be throttled by Stefanski, maybe deservedly so if you agree he felt Baker's limitations in the pocket were a major factor to do so. But I lean toward your view since some of Stefanski's ideas of empty backfield inside the 10, never seeing Chubb and Hunt together even as a confusion factor, his seemingly incomprehensible sitting of Chubb to conserve his touches in critical times late and his offensive protection scheme for the second Steelers game seem to illustrate your point.

I'm hoping his eyes and experience are through a wider lens this year - he needs a better feel for the game as it progresses and a less steadfast analytics approach or he will be another possible bust.

Funny to think about but in 2020 when he was COY he patted Zac Taylor on the back after beating the Bengals and I said to myself unless you continue to grow Zac will pass you up with his QB being healthy.

A top QB - we have one - so Stefanski needs to make sure we uses that skill set.

...and Stefanski is 4-0 vs the bengals.

and now, a comedy break:

I don’t disagree with Nick Karns in that tweet. It’s just the morality of the move is so controversial. I am of the opinion that he’s going to majorly help our team and we want a winning franchise, so it’s the move to make. I’m just hoping it doesn’t crash and burn.

At least you have history on your side.

🥶

After an off season of major deals and Mayfield bashing, I find it interesting that the same questions honest people have had that have watched the actual play results from the coaching scheme of Stefanski is front and center at the initial press conference introducing the Browns new QB. IMHO, Stefanski dodged the question and though I believe there might be some type of minor adjustments - I fully expect Stefanski to continue to run the same basic scheme he has run the last 3-years. With a totally decimated WR room, it has to make you wonder why no FA WR has considered coming to Cleveland. If not for the trade of Cooper, the Browns wouldn't have addressed the situation at all - so much so that the rumor of consideration is being given to resigning Landry or an injured OBJ who at best won't be available until mid-season.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...tefanskis-offense-to-evolve-in-2022.html

First, Jakeem Grant, a WR, put pen to paper and signed here already. Second, how do you know what people considered? Third, if we're believing rumors, Landry and OBJ, both FA WRs, are considering returning. Will Fuller, who many have linked to us, is still available. Finally, we've got the draft to go where we can still address WR, and do it on much cheaper contracts.

"Stefanski's trend is to diminish the pass and focus on the run. I expect the same scheme in 2022 - he hasn't shown me the ability to adjust and definitely doesn't build to the skill sets of his players."


The sample size is way to small to speak about trends.

He has been a head coach two years. Those years were different for many reasons.

This years team will feature a vastly different quarterback as well as a different receivers room.

So I will wait and see.

j/c:

I hope Stefanski doesn't change too much. I did not like the hire, but I love his scheme. He learned from the Shanahan/Kubiak school of superior scheme and play calling. He will be able to expand on it now that he isn't hamstrung by such a limited qb, but I do not want to go to 11 personal as our base package. Mix it in, but 12 and 13 personnel works, especially w/the running backs we have.

Agree 100% -- we've seen some concerns with regards to play calling in specific games. But overall you'd have to say the sample size for knowing what KS can and will do is way to small. Just like Baker played to a high level from the half way point *the previous season ... so did Stefanski's offense. There were not many complaints overall with how things were set up then. And this year - not only was Baker throwing with one wing, we had major injuries week to week across the OL, the WR was dinged up significantly, RB's also - lest we forget 3rd string RB burst onto the scene due to necessity .. we even had some issues at TE at times. What we saw in 2021 to my mind does not resemble what a Stefanski offense is/will be. He's better than that. It doesn't excuse or erase some of the head scratching stuff like leaving rookie 3rd string RT 1 on 1 with the best pass rusher in the game, passing 3 times in a row to lose a must win game when we had been running at 7.8 yards per carry, getting cute, going for it on 4th down way too many times when you consistently come up short. But I look at those as specific game issues, not a trend in the scheme. I believe/hope that KS will adjust to the talent now available.

jc...

Stefanski's tendency to change his play calling, seemly flipping 180* during the games...that has to go..!

Stefanski developed a real bad habit of falling back on a play calling strategy of NOT TO LOSE..!...and that is one sure way to lose.

IMO, the play calling deteriorated last year compared to Stefanski's rookie year. Stefanski needs to do better.

Grant is only a PR/KR

Sort of on the same timetable as Baker's injury huh? Of course no mention of how having a QB with a bum shoulder would influence your play calling. Odd how that happens on a regular basis here.

Check out his video the kid is a WR too ...

i mean.. he's 5'7 with 100 catches in 6 years 16 catches a year is not a WR. that's like 1 gadget play a game.

In his most productive season which was 2020 he had 36 catches for 373 yards and 1 td. Last season he had a total of 11 catches which netted 132 yards and 2 td's.

Maybe the Browns plan to use him more as a WR than than Miami did ...

4 former Browns players no one wants.

Higgins had 24 catches for 275 yards and 1 TD last year. Is he suddenly not a receiver? Grant is still Texas Tech's all time leading receiver. Production is somewhat a product of opportunities. I'm not claiming Grant is going to be amazing for us, catching tons of passes. But, he's a receiver.

He's as much of a receiver as Josh Cribbs was a receiver.

He was traded from Miami to Chicago, so he had to learn a new offense on a team who didn't even know who their QB was, ... so last season is probably not a good example and neither is the 2020 season when he had 36 recptions.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

He played in both Chicago and Miami last season. In Miami where he did know the offense he had 2 receptions for -7 yards before he was traded. I do however agree that neither is best year nor his worst year represent his capability. Which is the reason why I included both.

Anyone hoping Grant is anything more than a return man is being willfully ignorant.

Hey Josh caught a TD in the Pro Bowl.

Top Free Agents Still unsigned:
▫️Bobby Wagner - soon to be 32-year old ILB - could be short time fix to fill a big hole on the Browns defense - over priced - needs good DT's to be elite
▫️Stephon Gilmore - soon to be 32-year old CB - over priced - not a Browns need
▫️Odell Beckham, Jr. - will turn 30 this year - over priced - injured with Nov timeline for return - 2nd straight season with knee injury
▫️Tyrann Mathieu - soon to be 30-year old safety - over priced - biggest boom-or-bust free agent still left on the market
▫️Julio Jones - just turned 33 - career lows in 2021 - injured each of the last 2-years - Titans GM on release: "Availability is just as important as ability"
▫️Jadeveon Clowney - 29-year old DE - another year older (29) and despite not getting severely injured in 2022, does still carry an injury history - has overrated his value - open spot on Browns defense
▫️Calais Campbell - Soon to be 36-year old DE - It’s hard to gauge the market for a 36-year-old pass rusher - has overrated his value
▫️JC Tretter - Browns cap casualty - 31-year old C - too expensive for a backup
▫️Jarvis Landry - Browns cap casualty - 30-year old WR - coming off 2 consecutive down years - has overrated his value - Landry thought he could command up to $20 million per season, according to Pro Football Talk’s Mike Florio.
▫️Melvin Gordon - 29-year old RB - overrated his value - not a Browns need
▫️Duane Brown - soon to be 37-year old OT - not a need at this age

Plenty of talented players looking for a team.

Only 2 of the above will be under 30 this season, Gordon and Clowney. Two are over 35 going into this season. No defensive tackles on the list and only three WR (all coming off 2021 injuries), two Browns retreads who over value themselves and an oft injured Jones.

Realistically, only Wagner and Clowney address serious needs on the Browns and they would likely have to over pay to secure their services.

If Clowney does not re-sign or drags his feet too long, I'd sigh Jerry Hughes on a one year deal. Like Hughes, Justin Houston could be signed as a situational pass rusher on a one year deal.

Akiem Hicks on a one year deal would be worth considering as well.

I'd throw $9M at the ageless wonder Calais Campbell on a one yer deal.

Linval Joseph could be a Malik Jackson-like signing. Would likely get better production.

Plenty of options still available.

I half expect that, unless Baker is traded before then,we may sign Clowney after June 1 when Tretter's hit falls off.

I wouldn't say that. Maybe optimistic.

I say that because opportunity is a large part of a players success.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. Filling out the roster isn't the issue - upgrading the roster is the issue.

Hughes DE - will be 34-years old when the season starts - just had his 2nd off season surgery - totaled just 2 sacks and 18 total tackles in 2021 - definite downgrade form Clowney

Houston LB/DE - 33-years old - is now officially a part-time player - 2021 sack output — 4.5 — was his lowest of his career in any season he played more than five games - definite downgrade from Clowney

Akiem Hicks DT - turns 33-years old during the season - made 10.4M base salary in 2021 - looking for long-term final contract - definite upgrade but at what cost?

Calais Campbell DE - turns 36-years old at season start - hard to gauge the market for a 36-year-old pass rusher - definite downgrade from Clowney

Linval Joseph DT - turns 34-years old during season - the Chargers needed to upgrade a defense that struggled against the run last year, reason why Joseph wasn't resigned - exact same struggles against the run the Browns have - maybe not a downgrade but definitely not an upgrade

A lot of these guys are in the twilight of their careers and most likely wouldn't be anything close to an upgrade at the positions in question except for maybe Hicks who is looking for a long-term deal. They are all looking for that elusive Super Bowl Ring which might make Cleveland a landing spot for that Berry 1-year wonder deal except for that ghost in the room - WHAT IF WATSON GETS SUSPENDED FOR THE YEAR?

As of now, the Browns are missing 3 starters on defense and sorely need an upgrade at ILB. As a fan, I'm looking every year for upgrades and the pursuit of a championship. With no 1st round pick and only one late second, the Browns are not going to be upgrading the defense through the draft not with the offensive needs also crying out to be addressed.

So, at the end of the day, IMHO - I look at every position and decide whether there's a weakness or not. Then I look at how the team addresses that weakness - do the Browns upgrade or do they regress. What are the 2-3 spots the Browns must address? What about depth - growing or not - 2, 3, and 4-year plans for the position. So, has the defense gotten better so far this off season? I would say "No." Has the offense gotten better so far this off season? Maybe, depending on Watson's availability.

Hence the one year deals. Age not an issue on that type of deal.

Plenty of options available for the Browns.

Tretter was an immediate release so his 8.23M has already been added to the cap. The only post June 1 release was Hooper whose dead cap will be spread over 2-seasons. It means the Browns cannot use any of the salary cap room created by releasing Hooper until that point. But it costs the Browns considerably less dead cap room for 2022. Using the post-June 1st designation creates $9.5 million in extra cap room for Cleveland after June 1, with a dead cap hit of $3.75 million in 2022 and another $7.5 million in 2023. All of that dead cap would hit the books in 2022 without the designation.

The release also means that the Browns will not receive any credit in the compensatory draft pick formula when another team signs Hooper.

Someone on here mentioned that KS loves the jet sweep (which is true), and we had Jarvis running them prior. Imagine if someone could get the hang of that but had some speed.

Ahh, yeah... I thought I had the name wrong. So, scratch that, reverse it. Hooper, not Tretter.

None of those guys fit with the team "analytics" though. I suppose that after giving the most unrealistic contract in the history of the NFL that kicking analytics to the side of the road would be a minor flaw at this stage. If analytics don't sway the decision, the Steelers who have used Cleveland for a whipping post most of the last 2 plus decades has analytic guidelines that creates the prospective mold of a potential free agent acquisition. For example, FA Safety Mathieu at 29 years old doesn't fit that mold, Mathieu is older than the vast majority of the Steelers' free-agent signings, and because of that he would probably command a higher-priced contract outside his value projected over the term of the contract. Those same analytic methods were used by the Browns in the decision-making process involving Tretter and Landry. Hey, but if signing a 36-year old DE that will produce less than what the Browns had in 2021 to a 1-year deal is the answer to the Browns defensive line openings then "go for it."

For a long term contarct which is an actual investment you hope will pay out over time I would agree. But as a one season band aid I think you missed the mark.

I would agree if the player is better than what he is replacing - in this case that is not true.

We are talking about one year deals, not long term deals. Not fitting with "analytics" is off base.

For reference see:

Malcolm Smith

Malik Jackson

Adrian Clayborne

Clowney, Karl Joseph, BJ Goodson, Sendejo, Takk McKinley, …

Reading all of those name..... lots of swings, hardly any hits.

j/c:

Experienced depth. 40 career starts.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's given a legit shot to start over Harris.

I'm dumb. Moving this to 'The Offense' thread.

Minicamp starts April 18, yall.

Decent Center whose best attributes seem to be smarts and leadership. From what I have read, he is not an overly powerful or physical guy.

And they should compete for the starting position. I just do not see him beating out Harris. Seems like the Browns have been grooming Harris to take over for Tretter.

Yeah, I hope he beats him out, just haven't seen much of Harris in games obviously. But the Browns have and that's what matters.

Pocic played tackle, guard, and center in college. He's insurance for an injury to Harris and has positional versatility.

Could signal the end for Dunn/Forbes/Hance/Froholdt, or at least push them to the practice squad.

He kind of sounds similar to Hubbard. Good locker room guy who can fill in wherever.

j/c:

I remember that Dunn was talked about as taking snaps at C. I think Dunn played well a G when tasked and Hance is a G who wasn't terrible at T. Good problem to have and likely makes the draft OL-free this year.

Hopefully Callahan can help this guy out, according to PFF last year was the first time Pocic graded out better than below average.

It doesn't get spead out over two years after June 1st. It does not apply in this case.

Not a bad backup if Harris craps the bed. Seattle ran our same system last year as well.

I think everybody gets that. I don't know much about the guy, but Harris seems to be unknown to a weak link on the line so I would expect this kid to be given a shot, and not shocked if he wins out.

If he has versatility, as has been suggested, this deal sounds good to me. At worst, Pocic offers solid depth.

The Bob Hallen of the NFL.

Where does jack get his information?

Spotrac has Brissett's cap hit @ $4,650,000.
And Hubbs @ $1,187,500

OverTheCap apparently.

I'm not sure if the site is updated yet but both OTC and Spottrac are saying the same info. Berry has a tendency to kick money down the road to another year or two even when one's contract is up, which I'm not necessarily a fan of, but it is what it is. I'm guessing he is doing this because of the assumed massive cap increase expected to happen year-to-year.

This might be one of those cases.

What I posted is from Spotrac.

j/c:

It was reported that there was a team that was miffed that it wasn't given an opportunity to match the crazy contract the Browns threw out there. If that's true, people are getting mad at the Browns for something that at least 1 (and probably more) other teams would've gladly done.

Right. This is about the Ravens' owner pissed not getting a deal done w/ Jackson before this Watson contract. He's just mad at the timeline presuming they were trying to get something done.

Now, there is precedence for these QB deals.

I get that it's unprecedented, but these people sound like there's never been an outlier contract before. I don't get the hand-wringing and the fake tears.

I see you spending your time in the political threads. You know how this game works.

It's because most owners can't ante up a quarter billion to an escrow account for a fully guaranteed contract.

The byproduct of this contract was a bit of a sucker-punch to a division rival... whose QB situation ticks in at "a little better" than Baker's did (my opinion). Now Jackson is looking for a check that the Raven's will not be willing to sign. Owner is low-key crying foul in advance of those contract talks.

Guaranteed contracts have been expected for awhile. Watson's unique circumstances and the resultant bidding war led to it happening. The optics stink with the cloud hanging over Watson, but fully guaranteed contracts were verging on inevitable, especially with the NFLPA somewhat getting its act together while dealing with COVID concerns. The NFL was the last major US sports league to avoid them. It was also the most profitable. Now the owners will have to spread the wealth a bit more and shoulder more of the injury risk players take on.

I have not read anything, ever, from any source that guaranteed contracts were ever on the horizon for the NFL or inevitable. Currently bad contracts have the potential to decimate a team for a year or two while they absorb them and wash them from the books - having guaranteed contracts would potential send a team into a death spiral for 4 or 5 years. Anyone want to know who the 5th or 6th highest paid player on the Cincinnati Reds is this year?

It was talked about a decent bit back in 2018 when Kirk Cousins signed his fully guaranteed deal. Russell Okung tweeted about it a lot. There's an article on Forbes, but it won't let me copy the link for some reason, keeps cutting off everything after forbes.com. Article was from July 5, 2018. Titled "NFL Players Call For Guaranteed Contracts As Potential Work Stoppage Looms."

It could only stick for QBs. Cousins let that genie out of the bottle. With a 2nd, longer fully guaranteed contract, it's going to be hard to put that genie back. All the QB protection rules mitigate a decent bit of the injury risk at that position.

j/c:

While researching some info on Baker, I couldn't help but notice how high JC Tretter was ranked. The guy was outstanding. Did his release have anything to do w/him being the President of the NFLPA? I do not think it is a good idea to let a guy that good just walk even if he was expensive.

By doing this, Berry has put teams in a bad situation. If they can't pony up, someone else will. This could lead to Jackson being moved out of the division, which is in the best interest of the Browns. Also, I don't think the Rooneys have cash availability like that either. This is going to be a game changer.

The optics were that is was cap-related. Who knows if there was more behind it? I am surprised he is still available though.

It was cap related. He was always likely to get cut this off-season (just like Landry and OBJ). I don't think he practiced at all in 2021 because his knee is pretty torn up.

Thanks Cap.

I don't think his position in the union had anything to do with his release.

His replacement was planned for cap space, age, and health. JC could rarely practice. His knees are in bad shape.

Harris was drafted and developed to replace him. Pretty common for an aging player. He still suited up and played well despite his knees.

It was one of those things were his time as a Brown had reached the end. If he gets a deal it will not be a long deal.

Harris is smaller. His natural position is center. They just signed Pocic who will compete for the position. We should be fine.

JC was a good player and will be missed. I wish him well.

Browns get lowest grade in AFC North for their off season moves. All 32 teams graded:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2954659-bleacher-report-expert-consensus-free-agency-grades

Quite an obvious opinion piece based upon the Watson signing.

From a pure football perspective the upgrade at quarterback is obvious. Not only obvious but puts the Browns in contention.
(I believe the Browns know what the suspension will be if he is suspended.)

The trade for Cooper viewed in the light of some of the receiver deals since we acquired him like the Kirk deal. Please, it was a steal. Plus Berry restructured his deal to provide cap space.
Signing Brissett is an upgrade over Keenum IMO.

The Mack Wilson deal was a good move. The Pocic deal as well. Taven Bryan may also help at DT depth.

Glad the B/R "expert" consenus means nothing. That goes right next to Dan ? Power Rankings. This is March 30.

Bone...did you not learn anything from last season...drinking the cool-aide and swallowing all the hype that was bestowed upon the Browns and their pending Super Bowl appearance..that many predicted was going to happen last season..?

We got burned by the hype last season..won't happen again this year.

To the team I say...don't tell me how good you are...show me how good you are..!

Couple different thoughts...

Regarding that offseason ranking, which doesn't matter of course, it is clear that everybody's still in their feels right now. They really agreed that adding a top5 QB = D. lol

Regarding Watson's contract and all the teeth-gnashing about needing $ in escrow, competitive balance, blah blah blah...if only the owner's could get together every year and change rules to address competitive balance. Maybe somewhere warm in March, but just spitballing here.

It's also hilarious that the media and apparently FO folks can just pretend that Cousins' guaranteed contracts (plural) never happened. I don't want to speculate why they are somehow tagging the guaranteed contract issue to Watson, but it makes you wonder the motive...these people cannot be that ignorant of their own league.

Brent Sobleski was a Baker fan. Not surprised he gave the Browns a 'D'.

I don't care about last season. We had a great roster. It felt good to be excited about the season.

Things didn't work out. It happens. Lots of junk happened and the season results suffered.

It doesn't bother me. Way better than looking at 1-31.

We will have a good roster. Nobody can predict injuries. That aside watching a qb like DW play will be fun. He is very good and I think he will do well with KS.

I have no problem feeling good about playing a season. I like the idea that we have a chance and I believe we have.

His release had everything to do with the Browns saving $$$$

*doesn't include hooper

Thanks bro.

Edit: I can't say I agree w/that decision. Again, I loved Dorsey and did not like the Berry hire. However, the guy has done a very good job for the most part. Not every decision is a good one, but he has made a lot of good ones. I also like his demeanor and professionalism. He comes across as a very thoughtful and fair man. I'm glad that a minority is getting a shot in such an important position and excelling. Hopefully, that will open the door for others. I am not a fan of dumping Tretter, but I'm not going to freak out over it.

Obviously, there was a LOT of nervousness bringing in the protege of Sashi. I think the results speak for themselves. You definitely can't accuse these guys of not having a plan/being rudderless.

There's also just a overarching feeling of the Browns being in control. Maybe that's the thoughtfulness, or maybe it's the patience. It probably doesn't even mean all that much in terms of wins, but it's a breath of fresh air (as a fan) to have the united front that this FO has. Oh... and less Jimmy front and center is never a bad thing.

j/c:

Browns Have Expressed Interest in Brandin Cooks

CLEVELAND-- The Browns are continuing their search for another wide receiver this offseason.

The Browns have had talks with the Houston Texans regarding receiver Brandin Cooks at times this offseason, a league source tells TheOBR.

The extent of those talks is unknown, but the Browns have called on the former first-round draft pick as they continue to explore possible options.

Cooks, who was selected 20th overall in the 2014 NFL Draft by the New Orleans Saints, was traded to the Texans in 2020 after spending two seasons in Los Angeles.

Cooks also played in 16 games with the New England Patriots during the 2017 season.

The former first-round pick has 7,917 career yards and 46 career touchdowns while averaging 13.8 yards per catch in his career.

The team is also open to a reunion with Jarvis Landry at the right price, however, it is unknown the level of seriousness in those talks.

1
COMMENTS
The current receiver room consists of Amari Cooper, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Anthony Schwartz, Ja'Marcus Bradley, and Jakeem Grant.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Browns-Interested-in-Brandin-Cooks-185670949/

I was kind of surprised we didn't get him in the Watson trade, it's been rumored for months now that Cooks was available.

Could a first round pick at 20th and number one trade happen ? Cooks for Baker ?

I have to lol ! Cooks / Baker. Seems a little bit like a hells kitchen episode !

Anthony Schwartz needs to take this as a sign that his
Roster spot is not safe by any means
Not to hard to replace a WR that only had 70 total yards
Of recieving after week 1.

Cooks production in outdoor games, in weather is similar to what he might experience in Cleveland during Nov/Dec/Jan...I have to ask if Cooks is a fair weather WR..?

Cooper / Cooks / DPJ / Draft pick would be a very good WR corp

Supposedly, part of Schwartz draft profile was that he's a smart dude.... so I find it hard to believe he doesn't already know he's gotta show more than last year.

For.all the supposed speed that Schwartz has, he averaged only
12 yds a catch at Auburn and had 5 career TDs.
He might smart and all but it sure doesnt translate to the
Football field. I think he is timid and is afraid to get hit
Kinda funny even in college he wasnt featured in jet sweeps
That often.
He was a severe reach in RD 3. I think this year he will be
Regulated to the practice squad.
Cooks would be a serious upgrade to a unit lacking
WRs that can make a guy miss in the open and take it to the
End zone.

Or his college QB was more of a RB than Lamar Jackson, and his pro QB was broken the one season they had together.

Let's see what he does with a healthy QB with a reputation as a great deep ball thrower before throwing in the towel.

He was a 1000 yard receiver with 7 TDs in New England in 2017.

I dislike any signing in which the player was associated with the Packers special teams in 2021.

Future HOFer!

This makes me wonder which stats it were that resulted in him not being retained by Green Bay. Is it just financials, or was he not even pursued?

Seems solid to me. Proven left footed cold weather kicking punter - sign me up.

P Career
SEASON TEAM G GS Punts Yds Net Yds Lng Avg Net Avg Blk OOB Dn In 20 TB FC RET RetY TD
2018 Buffalo Bills 8 0 45 2028 1811 60 45.07 40.24 1 4 8 22 4 9 20 137 0
2019 Buffalo Bills 16 0 79 3313 3016 67 41.94 38.18 1 15 13 34 7 26 18 157 0
2020 Buffalo Bills 16 0 41 2082 1804 72 50.78 44 0 8 4 18 7 6 16 138 0
2021 Green Bay Packers 17 0 52 2446 2098 82 47.04 40.35 0 9 7 17 4 12 20 268 0
TOTAL 57 0 217 9869 8729 82 46.21 40.69 2 36 32 91 22 53 74 700 0

We will be his 5th team in 4 years, so somethings must not sit well with teams.

I dont think he’s a good holder

you sure about that?


New England Patriots (2018)*
Buffalo Bills (2018–2020)
Los Angeles Rams (2021)*
Green Bay Packers (2021)
Cleveland Browns (2022)
* Offseason and/or practice squad member only

Hopefully this means we're not using a 3rd round pick on the super punter.