Browns News & Notes - DawgTalkers.net

Posted By: MemphisBrownie Browns News & Notes - 10/07/22 02:38 PM

Not a ton of information on this guy, but here is something.

Quote

Buffalo Bills Undrafted Free Agent Profile: DT Prince Emili
by Brandon Croce4 months ago Follow @BrandonCroce

During the rookie minicamp the Buffalo Bills had last weekend, they had a number of players in for a tryout. One of those players was defensive tackle Prince Emili, who showed enough during the practices to be signed to the Bills’ roster.

Let’s take a closer look at the player and what he brings to the team.

Stats/Measurables
Height: 6’2″

Weight: 300 pounds

Prince Emili played in 37 games over four seasons with Penn University and had 162 total tackles, 30.5 tackles for a loss, 11 sacks, three passes defended, and one forced fumble. A majority of these stats came in the past two seasons with 9.5 sacks and 27 tackles for a loss.

Scouting Report on Pro Football Network
Analysis: Emili was a small, hard-working Ivy League defensive lineman with poor measurables and limited upside.

How does he fit with the Buffalo Bills?
While the overall analysis on Emili wasn’t glowing from Tony Pauline, he does fit what the Buffalo Bills look for at the three technique. He is similar to defensive tackle Ed Oliver as he is small for a defensive tackle but does have good quickness that allows him to make plays on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

Every year, there is a player or two who surprise during the offseason and earn a spot on the 53-man roster or as a player who starts on the practice squad and moves his way to the active roster. Prince Emili is someone who could be that player this year as the Bills have the top four spots on the depth spot locked in but have also valued depth at the position.

Emili could be a player that is that fifth option on the depth chart at the position that rotates frequently during the course of a game, similar to what Justin Zimmer has done at times over the past few seasons. This should be an interesting training camp battle as the Bills have a number of players competing for it and Prince Emili should not be dismissed.

https://buffalowdown.com/2022/05/19/buffalo-bills-undrafted-free-agent-profile-dt-prince-emili/

This is good news.

I like the mindset of this team.

j/c...

Good. He's a head case.

Is Perrion Winfrey still on the team ? I have not heard his name mentioned in a while.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Good. He's a head case.

At one time he was a really good number #2 when he was
With the Dolphins. Maybe since he has found himself
In the NFL unemployment line , perhaps it's caused
Him to mature. I wish they would have signed him
He is a upgrade over DPJ.
The Browns have got very little production from their
WRs other than Cooper
Schwartz DPJ Bell.....0 TDs in 4 games
That's poor.
I blame it on Berry. He could have added more talent
To that area

Originally Posted by Halfback32

Is Perrion Winfrey still on the team ? I have not heard his name mentioned in a while.

Yes, he has returned since his discipline issue that caused him to miss one game. He had 16 snaps against ATL for 1 tackle. It was a tackler for a loss, though.

Btw-------take a look at the DL we put on the field in that game. Scheme or talent?

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2022/10/3/23384415/browns-defensive-snap-counts-stats-and-notes-week-4

I said during the game last week, but the DL in that game was the worst we’ve ever trotted out there

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

I said during the game last week, but the DL in that game was the worst we’ve ever trotted out there

JMHO, but what would you expect, especially with the interior defensive line. The Browns had the worst defensive tackles in the entire league with the 2 Malik's in 2021. After bouncing those guys, rightfully so, they replaced them with a Jacksonville career backup and Elliott who couldn't beat out the 2 Malik's in 2021. After 4 games, the Browns now have Bryan ranked 70th of 117 interior players with a PFF Grade of 58.3 - Elliott, ranked 115th of 117 with a PFF Grade of 30.0 - and Togiai ranked 117 of 117 with a PFF Grade of 28.5. I have no idea what the FO was thinking during the off season but it's pretty damn clear Berry didn't do anything to bolster the defensive interior. Unfortunately, I expect that interior line to be the focus of every team we face going forward. That will ultimately lead to cheating on defense by the safeties keeping the Browns vulnerable to the deep pass. With the step up in competition the next 7-weeks, I'm afraid what we witnessed the first 4 games will become the rule rather than the exception.

Agreed and like I've been saying, it's going to get ugly starting tomorrow. We all can hope for the best but expect the worse.

I agree. It looks like we don't know what to look for in DT's or we somehow think it is a throw away position where a team cn get by with nearly anybody playing the position.

I like Berry and in no way am thinking we might need to do something about him, but his lack of concern over the DT position and WR position are certainly starting to but a bit of rust on his finish.

We might also be able to add D line in gneral. His work with DE's isn't looking all that great either. Yes, he drafted Garrett, but any idiot could have made that selection.

I do understand that you always need to look for value and you miss on those more than you hit, and how the draft falls sometimes impacts things, but sometimes you need to bring in a top player even if it is at a position you might not feel is as important as other positions.

Something we do with the DT position and WR position just isn't working. I don't know if it is the scouting of those positions or reluctance in drafting those positions. I was going to include coaching, but I don't think we have idiot coaches at those positions, and good players overcome idiot coaching. Good coaching helps good players. Good coaching doesn't turn inferior players in to good players. It just makes them a bit better.

j/c:

It seems like almost every single post on here emphasizes the negatives and completely ignores our positives. A little balance would be nice. For example, if multiple posters are going to criticize Berry for DTs and WRs, wouldn't it be fair for at least one of you to mention how he has upgraded the OL, the secondary, and the QB room?

The Browns are ranked 4th overall in offense and 9th overall in defense. It's not like we are at the very bottom of the league.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

j/c:

It seems like almost every single post on here emphasizes the negatives and completely ignores our positives. A little balance would be nice. For example, if multiple posters are going to criticize Berry for DTs and WRs, wouldn't it be fair for at least one of you to mention how he has upgraded the OL, the secondary, and the QB room?

The Browns are ranked 4th overall in offense and 9th overall in defense. It's not like we are at the very bottom of the league.

At least for me it is because that was what we were talking about. No doubt Berry has done a good job. When it comes to the O-line though, i am not so sure how good a job has been done. He drafted Harris, who isn't all that good. Wills was a good pick, and maybe the best pick he could have made that year, so that is good. I think he brought in Conklin, so that was a good move. I don't hold injury against the GM, so he has done OK there.

I am fairly sure Watson will pan in to a good move, but it still remains to be seen. He drafted Ford and Felton at the RB position. I am not sure how that pans out. It will depend on Ford, who could be a plus player.

Now that it has been a few years the balance sheet is starting to come into focus. So far it is good, but I wouldn't call it great by any means.

What else...we have done well with corners, maybe not so much with safety. LB...JOK looks to be a plus player, Phillips less so.

He did sign Conklin in FA and yes, he did draft Wills. Dorsey found Teller and Sashi [I think] drafted Bitonio. However, Berry has gave both guys new contracts to keep them around.

Dorsey acquired both Chubb or Hunt, but again, Berry either extended or re-signed both.

I don't think anyone can argue that our defensive backfield has improved w/Berry.

Yes, I am unhappy about what he has done w/the WRs overall, but he stole Cooper from Dallas. What was it? A 5th round pick. That big salary doesn't look quite so big now after what happened w/the WR market this off-season.

I completely agree about DTs.

But again, there are a few posters who only focus on the negatives and try to steer the conversation that way. That's fine, but I think balance is a good thing.

Under Stefanski the Browns are 12-3 after a loss.

Originally Posted by bonefish

Under Stefanski the Browns are 12-3 after a loss.

Just WIN...go Browns..!

Originally Posted by bonefish

Under Stefanski the Browns are 12-3 after a loss.

That's interesting, I would have never guessed as much.

Vers, IMO Kevin and AB are assets to our organization. I'm glad they're here and we should keep them. I feel they have both done a good job. Mistakes are made but that's the case with everyone. The thing that bothers me is that we all saw the DT position as a weakness back in April after the draft and little was done to correct it. Teams being able to run on us consistently and at will is a good way to lose a lot of games. It's happened to us too much in the past and I feel it's going to get ugly starting with today's game. JMO

Trying to school the classroom on how they're supposed to post again?

Originally Posted by Homewood Dog

Vers, IMO Kevin and AB are assets to our organization. I'm glad they're here and we should keep them. I feel they have both done a good job. Mistakes are made but that's the case with everyone. The thing that bothers me is that we all saw the DT position as a weakness back in April after the draft and little was done to correct it. Teams being able to run on us consistently and at will is a good way to lose a lot of games. It's happened to us too much in the past and I feel it's going to get ugly starting with today's game. JMO

To add to this a little bit. Being critical of your team and pointing out weaknesses means you're aware of what is happening on the field. Being a "Rah Rah" person all the time doesn't prove anything. There's no question the Browns have the nucleus to be a very good team. Garrett and Clowney were drafted as elite players and that should be expected of them. Ward is being paid like an elite CB but he's sure not performing like one as to date. Not pointing that flaw out on a consistent basis is ignoring why our team is only 2-2. You might consider the glass half full - I see it as half empty. We certainly have players performing better than expected. We have a bunch of players performing as expected. We also have a significant amount of players performing below expectations. If the Browns are going to be a playoff contender, then these areas of concern need to be addressed and some of them - addressed right away. The positives you want to talk about are great but there's not enough of those right now to make the Browns a playoff contender IMHO.

Non-stop. All week. Negative posts derailing threads to complain that it's really the negative posts that are derailing threads. It's like watching a dumbed down version of the movie Inception.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

j/c:

It seems like almost every single post on here emphasizes the negatives and completely ignores our positives. A little balance would be nice. For example, if multiple posters are going to criticize Berry for DTs and WRs, wouldn't it be fair for at least one of you to mention how he has upgraded the OL, the secondary, and the QB room?

The Browns are ranked 4th overall in offense and 9th overall in defense. It's not like we are at the very bottom of the league.

Oh so you don't seem to care about the team.

You seem to care so much more about policing what people write on here about the team.
that has never been the purpose of a message board imo, the purpose is to talk about the team, not the board members.

Maybe you can bring the positive like the positive in falling out of first place in the division after todays game
because that is a negative I'm sure you know.

The Browns are actually a game worse than last year at this
Time. And week 5 losses came at the expense of the
Chargers.
Jacoby Brissett thanks to Andrew Berry has really only
1 end zone threat at WR and that's Cooper.
David Bell and DPJ are invisible when it comes to
Being end zone threats.
Andrew Berry neglected to invest difference makers at WR
This off season. So when Brissett is locking on Cooper
In the red zone , can you blame him?

The defense is mostly made up of cupcakes and athletes
Not football players. Nobody on the defense brings
Any kind of physicality

I'm sorry but I can't sit here and say Berry has done anything special.. Locking up Chubb and bitonio etc...those are no brainers...any GM would do that.. Most GM's wouldn't give a guy like Ward 100m. He's not worth it. As far as drafting Wills, yeah that was ok, but Wirfs was still on the board and was a better prospect and has proved to be a much better Pro..so was that really a kudos to Berry? Ignoring Wr , yeah he went out and got Cooper, but he got rid of any other legit threat.. Landry was an exceptional wr and still a dependable target. So you created a hole where we didn't need to. Corners have not been improved, maybe in preseason on paper, but on the field they are getting torched. LB/DT were huge weakness last year, so his plan was to make them weaker..You are seeing the proof of that every week with teams rushing for 200+ every game. There isn't a single playmaker on defense. Thats on Berry.. Bottom line is all the good players that were here were already here when Berry got here. I will give him credit for bringing the punter in, he's been lights out. I think Stefanski comes up with great gameplans but the second something stops working or we need a play in a crucial point, he makes a head scratcher. Priefer, Woods and Berry all deserve to be replaced. For the most part offense has done well and will be elevated with DW assuming he will have the ability to audible out of some of these head scratchers. As long as we have the oline and chubb and hunt, the offense will be successful. The defense has had issues for several years. The question becomes is it the scheme or the lack of talent..Usually I would say its Woods, but watching today, plays coming right at someone and they would take a bad angle, got stuck in a bad place, overran, or just simply couldn't make the tackle. The scheme put them in position to make the play but they couldn't.. That tells me it has more to do with these very bottom of the nfl front 7 we have

j/c...

Thanks for the memories.

He'll be back on the PS if he clears waivers.

Rosen = Toys in the Attic.

Long time now.

j/c:

I told you we should have signed Suh all this time!

Tackling grades.

Originally Posted by AZBrown

Rosen = Toys in the Attic.

Dude, that's a horrible comparison! Toys In the Attic was a great album!

lmao - classic.

News & Notes: Browns will do 'everything we can' to address run defense issues

The Browns are reviewing all the errors that led to a rough performance by the run defense Sunday against the Chargers

Oct 10, 2022 at 03:18 PM
Anthony Poisal
Staff Writer

The Browns have several areas of improvement they must address after another gut-wrenching defeat in Week 5 — the loss was the third game this year they've gone into the fourth quarter with a lead and lost it.

Run defense is at the top of the list.

The Chargers totaled 238 rushing yards against the Browns, the second straight opponent to have crossed the 200-yard mark against them. RB Austin Ekeler totaled a career-high 173 yards, and his 71-yard gash on the Chargers' second drive of the game foreshadowed the rough day that was ahead for the defense.

"We've got to own it, and we've got to fix it," head coach Kevin Stefanski said. "We have to make sure we look at everything. There's nothing you can't look at, and we have to be intentional about that because until you stop it, teams are going to always continue to do that."

The Browns are 28th in the league in run defense after five games, a ranking far lower than what was expected from the group after it retained nine of its 11 starters from last season. Expectations were high on that side of the ball to begin the year because of the way the defense finished last season — the Browns limited opponents to 26 or less points in all but one of the final 11 games and were a top-five defense in the NFL.

But the results so far have been a stark contrast. After an excellent effort to hold RB Christian McCaffrey to 33 yards in Week 1, the Browns have shown regression and allowed opponents to rush for 90 or more yards every week since, including 440 yards the last two weeks.

Players and coaches alike are searching for solutions.

"We have to fix it quickly," Stefanski said. "We have a lot of guys who have played really good football for us. I know they want to get it fixed. I know we as coaches do, as well. We will look at it, and we will just make sure that we do everything we can to get it fixed and fixed quickly."

One answer might come from a player the Browns acquired Monday morning.

Pro Bowl LB Deion Jones joined the Browns in a trade with the Falcons and should provide some stability in the middle part of the defense. Jones is a seventh-year veteran who was voted to the Pro Bowl in 2017 and has tallied at least 100 tackles in five of the last six NFL seasons.

Jones has spent the first five weeks on injured reserve due to shoulder surgery he received over the offseason but is eligible to be designated to return to practice. Stefanski said he'll arrive at CrossCountry Mortgage Campus on Tuesday and will be evaluated.

"We'll put our eyes on him," Stefanski said. "We just felt like we could add a veteran linebacker to the group and thought it was the right thing to do."

Faith in Jacoby
Stefanski stuck up for QB Jacoby Brissett on Monday after he threw an untimely interception on the Browns' final red zone drive late in the fourth quarter.

The interception marked the second straight pick Brissett has thrown in the final minutes of the game, and all three of his interceptions this season have happened in the fourth quarter. The pick against the Chargers overshadowed a solid performance from Brissett, who completed 21 of 34 pass attempts for 230 yards with one touchdown and one INT.

"I have a lot of faith in Jacoby," Stefanski said. "I think he's playing well, and that was a bad play. He knows that. He is beating himself up about that. He is making some big plays in these games, both with his arm and with his feet, to give ourselves a chance to score points or whatever it is. Jacoby will be in those moments again. It might be this week or it might be the following week, and I expect him to come through."

Emerson steps up
One young player who has been a bright spot on the defense has been rookie CB M.J. Emerson Jr., who helped the defense complete a crucial stop against the Chargers when they attempted to go for it on fourth-and-1 with 1:14 left.

Emerson lined up across from Mike Williams, who had already caught 10 passes for 134 yards. Williams is one of the tallest receivers in the league at 6-foot-4, but Emerson, who's 6-foot-2 and was drafted by the Browns in the third round because of his size, was up for the challenge.

QB Justin Herbert attempted the pass to Williams, and Emerson broke it up. The play was one of the best yet of Emerson's first season.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...ing-we-can-to-address-run-defense-issues

Whew! Just in time!

Go get em Kev!

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the loss was the third game this year they've gone into the fourth quarter with a lead and lost it

This says it all IMO. It's a coaching issue. We can't finish games.

Those defensive numbers are incredible

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

Those defensive numbers are incredible

Good job Stefanski gets a pass because he isn't responsible for the Defense!

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Tackling grades.

Our top 5 D??? No way!!!!!

Aren't our starting DTs ranked dead last in PFF grades? Umm, maybe want to start by addressing that?

Highest graded Browns in Week 5 vs Chargers:

🥇 Joel Bitonio - 93.1
🥈 David Njoku - 86.3
🥉 Wyatt Teller - 84.1
4️⃣ Myles Garrett - 80.9
5️⃣ Greg Newsome II - 79.2

I can't believe Chubb was in this list.

Originally Posted by DaveyD

Aren't our starting DTs ranked dead last in PFF grades? Umm, maybe want to start by addressing that?

I think our DTs are ranked dead last in like the history of the NFL haha. Maybe not quite, but it’s alarming.

Originally Posted by DaveyD

Aren't our starting DTs ranked dead last in PFF grades? Umm, maybe want to start by addressing that?

It was the two we started against Atlanta. One of our starting DTs was out that game.

PFF GRADES THROUGH 5-weeks

TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES:
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Chubb - RB - 90.2 - 1st of 63
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Teller - G - 85.7 - 2nd of 74
___________________________________7 players performing at Starter Level 84-70
Bitonio - G - 84.7 - 3rd of 74
Njoku - TE - 79.4 - 3rd of 68
Brissett - QB - 78.0 - 7th of 36
Froholdt - C - 75.6 - NR
Pocic - C - 74.1 - 4th of 39
Cooper - WR - 74.1 - 28th of 113
Conklin - OT - 71.2 - 23rd of 72
___________________________________6 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
Hudson - OT - 67.4 - 36th of 72
Hunt - RB - 67.3 - 27th of 63
DPJ - WR - 66.0 - 61st of 113
Wills - OT - 65.9 - 42nd of 72
Johnson - RB - 60.0 - NR
Haeg - OT - 60.0 - NR
___________________________________9 players currently performing at Replaceable Level 59-0
Forristall - TE - 59.7 - NR
Schwartz - WR - 59.6 - NR
Brown - TE - 59.0 - 37th of 68
Bell - WR - 57.2 - 90th of 113
Felton - WR - 56.1 - NR
Bryant - TE - 54.9 - 48th of 68
York - K - 51.8 - 36th of 39
Dunn - OT - 51.1 - NR
James - TE - 42.2 - NR

TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADE
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Garrett - Edge - 91.5 - 1st of 112
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Clowney - Edge - 88.8 - 7th of 112
___________________________________5 players currently performing at Starter Level 84-70
Walker - LB - 82.7 - 4th of 78 (Injured, out for season)
Bojorquez - P - 81.4 - 3rd of 32
Fields -- LB - 79.9 - NR
Emerson - CB - 72.7 - 16th of 104
Takitaki - LB - 70.0 - 17th of 78
___________________________________4 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
Newsome - CB - 66.5 - 40th of 104
Bell - S - 64.4 - NR
JOK - LB - 63.2 - 37th of 78
Kunaszyk - LB - 61.8 - NR
___________________________________14 players currently performing Replaceable Level 59-0
Rochell - Edge - 59.4 - 83rd of 112
Harrison - S - 56.6 - NR
Delpit - S - 53.4 - 63rd of 86
Bryan - DT - 51.9 - 86th of 121
Thomas - Edge - 51.8 - NR
Johnson - S - 50.3 - 73rd of 86
Winfrey - DT - 47.9 - 98th of 121
Wright - Edge - 42.5 - 108th of 112
Winovich - Edge - 42.4 - NR
Ward - CB - 39.8 - 97th of 104
Phillips - LB - 36.0 - 75th of 78
Elliott - DT - 30.2 - 119th of 121
Green - CB - 29.0 - NR
Togiai - DT - 28.9 - 121st of 121

NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum

SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play

🤮🤮
Someone posted about Ward being a top player for us in a recent post. I said I didn't think he was possibly top 5 .... based on the PFF grades he is 21st. That's so nauseous. I'm also ultra disappointed in JOK - I was expecting him to be a stud this year. I can't help feel it's scheme and coaching as much as anything. Ugh.

Originally Posted by mgh888

🤮🤮
Someone posted about Ward being a top player for us in a recent post. I said I didn't think he was possibly top 5 .... based on the PFF grades he is 21st. That's so nauseous. I'm also ultra disappointed in JOK - I was expecting him to be a stud this year. I can't help feel it's scheme and coaching as much as anything. Ugh.

I agree.

We have talent on the D, but it's not working. There is something more than simply "bad play" happening. Be it scheme, be it cohesiveness, be it communication, something is just not right with the D.

Originally Posted by FloridaFan

Originally Posted by mgh888

🤮🤮
Someone posted about Ward being a top player for us in a recent post. I said I didn't think he was possibly top 5 .... based on the PFF grades he is 21st. That's so nauseous. I'm also ultra disappointed in JOK - I was expecting him to be a stud this year. I can't help feel it's scheme and coaching as much as anything. Ugh.

I agree.

We have talent on the D, but it's not working. There is something more than simply "bad play" happening. Be it scheme, be it cohesiveness, be it communication, something is just not right with the D.

I wish we could peel back the layers and understand this, it certainly doesn't seem to be anywhere near as complicated for other teams. The "green dot" moves as fast as the bouncing ball over the lyrics in cartoons in the '70's. I think it definitely goes beyond communication and into interpretation. I think JJ tried to interpret too much and it was confusing... not to mention flat out wrong many times. Now there's going to be dissent because a player is instructed to do something that causes him to give up a chunk play... naturally he'll be hesitant to follow instructions the next time.

1. Too much interpretation
2. Too much personality conflict
3. Poor tackling
4. Poor attitude
5. No NASTY

Don't we have the same coaches on D as last year? Our D was very good last year. I think we ranked 5th overall despite the poor play of last year's offense. We had games where the opponent scored 6, 7, 14, 14, 15, 16, 10, 16, 16, 16.

Now, take a look at this tweet. Yards over what is expected means that guys were in position to make the tackle, but were unable to do so. That's not on the coach. That's on the players. To be clear, I am not a fan of Woods, but there is more to the story than just saying the coach sucks.

Thats what I said after watching last week.. Woods has his flaws no doubt, but once they are on the field you have to trust the calls and scheme to put players in a position to make the play, it did that, our horrible personnel couldn't make the plays right in front of them. Most of them were missed tackles by the LBs

Originally Posted by FATE

Originally Posted by FloridaFan

Originally Posted by mgh888

🤮🤮
Someone posted about Ward being a top player for us in a recent post. I said I didn't think he was possibly top 5 .... based on the PFF grades he is 21st. That's so nauseous. I'm also ultra disappointed in JOK - I was expecting him to be a stud this year. I can't help feel it's scheme and coaching as much as anything. Ugh.

I agree.

We have talent on the D, but it's not working. There is something more than simply "bad play" happening. Be it scheme, be it cohesiveness, be it communication, something is just not right with the D.

I wish we could peel back the layers and understand this, it certainly doesn't seem to be anywhere near as complicated for other teams. The "green dot" moves as fast as the bouncing ball over the lyrics in cartoons in the '70's. I think it definitely goes beyond communication and into interpretation. I think JJ tried to interpret too much and it was confusing... not to mention flat out wrong many times. Now there's going to be dissent because a player is instructed to do something that causes him to give up a chunk play... naturally he'll be hesitant to follow instructions the next time.

1. Too much interpretation
2. Too much personality conflict
3. Poor tackling
4. Poor attitude
5. No NASTY

I don't know what the root cause is. I don't know how equally or otherwise "blame" or accountability needs to go around. I do think that for good coaches/organizations it should not be that hard to figure out. Bottom line - is the collective playing up to, above or below expectations ?? Easy Answer - they are a long way below expectations. So:

How much is lack of player talent - and why are those players on the team?
How much is lack of coaching - technique, communication, understanding role/responsibility/positioning, scheme and in game adjustments.
How much is execution - which can fall into a lack of talent classification if the player can't improve -- or it can be coaching: technique, priorities, accountability, player development and finally one I think we might be struggling in the most for numerous reasons: Lack of motivation.

Feel free to add other influences or factors to add to the bucket.

Yes, there is; the players have sucked too. Even so, it's very hard to overlook a color-by-numbers defense that is somehow still to complicated for players to execute. One that never seems to make adjustments. One that never seems to do anything out of the ordinary to make a QB uncomfortable. 🤮

j/c...

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

Pretty much coincides w/what a lot of us are seeing. I have been thinking about it a lot and I have come up w/a theory that is multi-faceted rather than just one broad generalization. I'm waiting for a time when it might be discussed rationally and things are not so emotional.

A lot has been made about Stefanski not owning the defense or holding them accountable. I suppose folks will interpret the way they want to, but I'll post this for your consideration.

Quote

Another troubling sign were the Browns’ penalties, with four of their six coming on defense, three of them for 15 yards and another for 10.

Free safety John Johnson III drew an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty in the second quarter for taking off his helmet to protest what he thought was a blindside block on linebacker Jacob Phillips.

“One of the officials came up to me and I said, ‘I’m not allowed to talk to you. I got a penalty, coach is mad at me,’” Johnson said.

Asked what Stefanski told him, Johnson said, “He said, 'It's a dumb penalty and you can't play for the Browns doing stuff like that.’

“I didn’t say anything egregious to the ref, I just took my helmet off. Obviously being a leader on the team I can't do that."

That is very damning toward Stefanski. Ouch. It's worse than I thought.

How exactly is that damning? Shouldn't he hold players accountable for their actions?

I'm happy to read that, and I hope that is true. His demeanor on the sideline didn't indicate that something like that was about to come out of his mouth.

Last year, Clowney rips someone's shoe off and throws it -- basically costing us the game -- and Stefanski pats him on the chest on the sideline, almost as if he is apologizing to him, I almost puked.

Why is that damning? I thought you wanted him to take some ownership of the defense and hold guys accountable?

Quote

“I didn’t say anything egregious to the ref, I just took my helmet off. Obviously being a leader on the team I can't do that."

Dwayne Rudd 2.0

I didn't think JJ deserved the flag, but it is what it is. Stefanski got on his ass about it. We need to play smarter. I did see several Browns call for a flag to be thrown. I couldn't tell exactly, but it looked like Ekeler threw that block w/out our guy really seeing him and after he had already let up on the play. But again, I guess they got him for taking his helmut off. Refs aren't real consistent w/that call. I see some guys get away w/it. Some don't.

j/c...

Good, we need any possible solution at DT. He may stink, but we have to try anything

Why does it feel like we're picking over the Return items at Dollar General to try to solve the problem?

I’m just glad they see the need to do something. It’s obvious to the fans what the needs are. If the FO wasn’t doing anything at all I’d be far more concerned than them shopping the scratch and dent section.

The concern for me is the fact that the vast majority of the fan base knew it needed addressed long before the FO addressed it. That's not a positive sign.

So, Atlanta who was 29th in defense last year, is sending us 2 players from that group. Davison, who was released by the Falcons in March and not signed by anyone, had a 2021 PFF grade of 46.8 in 11 starts. Deion Jones had a 2021 PFF grade of 34.6 in 16 starts. As poor as the Browns defense is performing, I guess any help is trying to do something but considering neither player has played a snap yet in 2022, are these acquisitions really an upgrade to what we are fielding already?

LB's PFF Grades
Walker 82.7
Fields 79.9
Takitaki 70.0
JOK 63.2
Kunaszyk 61.8
Phillips 36.0
Jones 34.6 (2021)

Interior Line PFF Grades
Bryan 51.9
Winfrey 47.9
Davison 46.8 (2021)
Elliott 30.2
Togiai 28.9

why don't we go after ndamukong Suh?

When you put it like that it reminds me of the Soccer team I support. 2 years ago they signed 2 defenders from Southampton who were the worst defensive unit in the Premier division that year.... guess what, Leicester City's defense has been a shambles ever since. Some of that was thru injury, some of it was because we had to play other players because it turns out the 2 defenders (a left back and central defender) were not good. DUH. How could anyone have guessed!

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Why does it feel like we're picking over the Return items at Dollar General to try to solve the problem?

Did not address the issue(s) in the off-season and now behind the eight ball.

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Why does it feel like we're picking over the Return items at Dollar General to try to solve the problem?

Because we fell asleep on Prime Day (free agency) and slept right through Black Friday (draft)... so now the bargain bin is all we have. Strangely, even the most casual of fans knew this would be a problem.

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Why does it feel like we're picking over the Return items at Dollar General to try to solve the problem?

Did not address the issue(s) in the off-season and now behind the eight ball.

^The tamed down, non-smart-assed version.^ What he said!

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Why is that damning? I thought you wanted him to take some ownership of the defense and hold guys accountable?

I actually misread the last line. I thought he was taking a shot at Stefanski.

Doesn't change my feelings about the job that Stefanski is doing.

Haha

scraping the bottom of the barrel here, this guy has been a non impact guy for his whole career.. averages 10 tackles a season.. gmab.. you have a 1-2 year stop gap guy in Suh that can help you and doesn't cost you anything but cap. Richardson is another one sitting out there and already familiar. Both of these are worth 10 of this guy.

Originally Posted by leadtheway

scraping the bottom of the barrel here, this guy has been a non impact guy for his whole career.. averages 10 tackles a season.. gmab.. you have a 1-2 year stop gap guy in Suh that can help you and doesn't cost you anything but cap. Richardson is another one sitting out there and already familiar. Both of these are worth 10 of this guy.

It kind of shines a light on what a lot of us are already thinking, "What the hell is Berry/Stefanski doing?" The Browns have the worse DT's in the NFL for the second season running and the FO is bottom feeding hoping for some kind of improvement. The next 6-games are brutal and these 2 guys from the Falcons are the best we can come up with to help right the ship? There's something going on with this team that we are not aware of yet but these moves are head scratchers. I mean Jones has had some good moments in his career but he's coming to the Browns after posting a PFF Grade for all of 2021 that's actually lower than what Phillips is posting right now. NEWSFLASH - LOWER THAN PHILLIPS! Like you stated, Davison has a career of averaging 10 tackles a season. Damn man, we have teams rushing for over 200 yds per game against us. Like I said, something is going on we don't know about yet. If I was Haslam looking at what has been invested in some of these players, I'd be asking some serious questions about what the hell is going on with the team!

Originally Posted by shotty66

why don't we go after ndamukong Suh?

because that would solve the problem

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

how many years ago was this? lol

I think this is the kind of guy we need at DT since we play the 4-2-5. In that D, the DTs are supposed to bigger, stronger guys who eat blocks and let the LBers run. They really are not asked to penetrate and make a ton of sacks and/or tackles. I don't know if this guy can actually play, but he fits the type we should have been looking for at DT since Woods arrived.

Here is a scouting report. The key thing to focus on in this report is strength.

Quote

TYELER DAVISON
FRESNO STATE
DT
Prospect Info
COLLEGE
Fresno State
HOMETOWN
CLASS
- -
- -
HEIGHT
WEIGHT
ARMS
6' 2"
316 lbs
34"
HANDS
10 3/4"
Prospect Grade
5.90
Average Backup Or Special-Teamer



Player Bio
Davison is a powerful defensive tackle who has above-average athleticism and saw his overall production spike in 2014. He is well-conditioned and can play all three downs if called upon to do so. With his athleticism, balance and power, Davison has the potential to be an outstanding pro, but he must prove that he can bring those same traits into play against better competition.

Analysis
By Lance Zierlein
NFL Analyst

NFL Comparison
Kyle Williams (Bills)

Overview
Davison is a powerful defensive tackle who has above-average athleticism and saw his overall production spike in 2014. He is well-conditioned and can play all three downs if called upon to do so. With his athleticism, balance and power, Davison has the potential to be an outstanding pro, but he must prove that he can bring those same traits into play against better competition.

Strengths
Built like a contestant in a strong-man competition
Has thickly muscled, long arms with big hands
Loves hand-to-hand combat inside
Uses club, rip, hump and push/pull techniques to beat defender
Has power to forcibly extract himself from block
Feels double team and braces outside leg and gets duck-footed to battle
Uses length to overcome lack of height
Relies on upper-body flexibility paired with explosion in his hips
Has quickness and "quick-win" capability to get after the quarterback and play on the other side of the line
Very tough at the point of attack and tries to impose his will on centers
Played 80 percent of the defensive snaps
Likeable with high character
High school wrestling background

Weaknesses
Can only play in a four-man front
Has power and athleticism but wasn't at his best against the best competition he faced early in the season
Struggles to change directions quickly enough in confined spaces and misses tackles because of it
Might need to add more weight to be able to hold up as a nose in the NFL
Some scouts believe he didn't give his best effort when asked to move to defensive end early in the season
Gets caught up in fighting man in front of him and will lose sight of the ball sometimes

Sources Tell Us

"He plays too laterally to me. I know he's strong and all that but I want to see him up the field more and not just against the weakest parts of the schedule." -- NFC West scout <br><br> "When I study him, I see a disruptive tackle-splitter. He can't play in an odd front, obviously, but when he gets technique work, I think you could see him really take off." -- NFC area scout

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tyeler-davison/32004441-5682-2084-103a-cbc0af12078c

Hmmm, so another project player for the Browns with a player they are waiting for to reach his potential at age 30. Will this reaching crap ever end in Cleveland?

I am not going to tell you that our DTs' are not a problem ... they are, but our scheme is too predictable and we are not helping are weaknesses with the scheme we're playing up front.

On the long run Sunday, we had both of our DEs' lined up in a wide 9 position before the snap.

The problem with that is that it seemed like Clowney was attempting to cover the B gap from his wide 9 position after the snap ... which is weird, because it was not an obvious passing situation and also Togiai (LDT) was crossing the face of the Center from his 3 technique presnap position and JOK released wide of Clowney, so no body was there to cover the B gap and that left two covering the C gap.

Seems to me like they should have either lined up Clowney (our DEs') in a 5 technique, or (the obvious) JOK should have filled the B gap there ... but I am not sure that it was his gap assignment in that defense ... which is very frustrating to say the least.

The League has figured out Joe Woods scheme and tendencies imo.

j/c...

Absolutely CRAZY.

The beauty of being a Browns fan, lol

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

I wonder what the head coach thinks of this. I wonder if he ever even talks to Joe Woods.

Not at all. But I heard they’re instagram friends.

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

I wonder what the head coach thinks of this. I wonder if he ever even talks to Joe Woods.

I think he’s too nice and too hands off in that regard, which will probably be his downfall. I also think in the back of he and Berry’s mind is that they don’t want to fire a guy mid season and scare off candidates for next year (at least, that’s what I’m justifying in my own mind lol)

The secret is out on us, just run the ball down our throats. We'll have to deal with it for the rest of the year unless by some miracle it gets rectified!!

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

I wonder what the head coach thinks of this. I wonder if he ever even talks to Joe Woods.

I think he’s too nice and too hands off in that regard, which will probably be his downfall. I also think in the back of he and Berry’s mind is that they don’t want to fire a guy mid season and scare off candidates for next year (at least, that’s what I’m justifying in my own mind lol)

Come on, guys. You really think that Stefanski doesn't talk to his coordinators? [Sigh]

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Come on, guys. You really think that Stefanski doesn't talk to his coordinators? [Sigh]

I'm not sure which is worse - whether he does or does not.

Originally Posted by FL_Dawg

The League has figured out Joe Woods scheme and tendencies imo.

Yep...yet our own players have not.

This is to Vers and others who are good with stats.

How was our Run D with Walker in at LB. That was a dirty play by the Steelers to brake his leg. Any who...he was the captain of the front 7 and it seems our massive whoas with the run D have been since he went on IR.
Also I am curious on the stats cause Dieon is suppose to be a Mental asset with his commanding the front 7 similar to Walker. If so it might be a big time move getting him.

jmho

tab, I don't think raw stats will adequately answer this question, but.......

Browns average rushing yards allowed for year: 138.2

Browns average rushing yards allowed in last 3 games: 181.3

Browns average rushing yards allowed in last game: 238.0

The problem is the Browns LBers are really too light and soft
To shed blockers at the 2nd level. They don't have any thumper
In the middle.they don't wrap up. They lay a shoulder into a ball
Carrier and look stupid doing it. JOK is missing a letter in his name.the
Letter E..he is a joke.

Along those lines, we supposedly play a 4-2-5 as our base defense or most frequent defense, if there is a difference.

But I propose that the this may be our theoretical, it is different from our actual.

4 - linemen - correct - with light in the butt DT's
1 line backer - rotates player
3 SS - JJ3, Delpit, JOK
Cb - 3
FS= 0

I think we have 3 really good in the box safeties.
The problem is that we are using one as a Lb and another as a FS.
This makes us soft against the run, especially with the lack of stoutness in our DT's
If also makes us vulnerable to the deep pass because we have no one back there that can make up for other players mistakes or take advantage of a Qb's mistake.

I think that we can play defense with 3 SS's and play at a high level.
We can create some matchups that would be very difficult for the offense to match up with.
But we need to recognize this and be creative with our defense.

Originally Posted by eotab

This is to Vers and others who are good with stats.

How was our Run D with Walker in at LB. That was a dirty play by the Steelers to brake his leg. Any who...he was the captain of the front 7 and it seems our massive whoas with the run D have been since he went on IR.
Also I am curious on the stats cause Dieon is suppose to be a Mental asset with his commanding the front 7 similar to Walker. If so it might be a big time move getting him.

jmho

Maybe this will help.

The Browns after 5-weeks are ranked 28th against the run.

The Browns defense is ranked 15th in the number of rush attempts against them (middle of the pack) but 28th in yards allowed. The Browns are 30th in YPC at 5.3 with only Detroit 5.5 and the LAChargers 5.8 allowing more. Only Seattle (9) and Detroit (10) have allowed more rushing TD's than the Browns (8).

Browns Game by Game Run Defense Breakdown:
@ Carolina: 54 rush yards allowed, 19 attempts, 2.84 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
NYJets: 93 rush yards allowed, 20 attempts, 4.65 YPC, 0 rushing TD's
Pittsburgh: 104 rush yards allowed, 22 attempts, 4.73 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
@ Atlanta: 202 rush yards allowed, 35 attempts, 5.77 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
LAChargers: 238 rush yards allowed, 34 attempts, 7.00 YPC, 2 rushing TD's

Browns Game by Game Pass Defense Breakdown:
@ Carolina: 16/27 - 59.3%, 235 passing yards, 14.69 YPR, 1 TD, 1 INT
NYJets: 27/45 - 60.0%, 324 passing yards, 12.0 YPR, 4 TD's, 0 INT's
Pittsburgh: 20/32 - 62.5%, 207 passing yards, 10.35 YPR, 0 TD's, 0 INT's
@ Atlanta: 7/19 - 36.8%, 139 passing yards, 19.86 YPR. 0 TD's, 1 INT
LAChargers: 22/34 - 62.9%, 228 passing yards, 10.36 YPR, 1 TD, 0 INT's

The Browns Defense is 27th in passing yards per reception @ 12.3.
The Browns are ranked 14th though in passing yards allowed per game at 215.6.
The Browns are 23rd in QB sacks through 5-games with 9 and ranked tied for 30th in QB Hits with 20 through 5-games.
The only 2 teams with less QB Hits are Minnesota with 19 and Chicago with 16.

Originally Posted by FATE

j/c...

Absolutely CRAZY.

And then the Browns cut them and they go on to find success elsewhere.

Originally Posted by FATE

j/c...

Absolutely CRAZY.

Unbelievable. Frickin' unbelievable.

Originally Posted by WSU Willie

Originally Posted by FL_Dawg

The League has figured out Joe Woods scheme and tendencies imo.

Yep...yet our own players have not.

It's so sad how true this is.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

Nice play breakdown of what the Chargers were doing to the Browns in the run game.

I'll just post the link because of some spirited language.

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1579918691462176770

Good stuff thanks milk

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

tab, I don't think raw stats will adequately answer this question, but.......

Browns average rushing yards allowed for year: 138.2

Browns average rushing yards allowed in last 3 games: 181.3

Browns average rushing yards allowed in last game: 238.0

This the perfect example of what happens when the opposing teams get game film on you. They see your weaknesses and then exploit them.

In the first game the Panthers really didn't even attempt to run on the Browns. McCaffrey only rushed 10 times.

In the second game the Jets who currently rank 24th in the league in rushing gained over 100 yards on the ground.

In week three even the lowly Steelers who rank 29th in rushing broke 100 yards rushing against the Browns. I think this is where opposing teams took notice.

As we all know it went straight downhill from there. Once teams figure out your weakness, with good coaching they will exploit it. And exploit it they did.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

This was alluded to by Dan Orlovsky. Basically, our defensive scheme is SO predictable that teams can gash us by just knowing our keys and weaknesses. Atlanta did it and so did LA.

Something has to change

I wonder what the head coach thinks of this. I wonder if he ever even talks to Joe Woods.

I think he’s too nice and too hands off in that regard, which will probably be his downfall. I also think in the back of he and Berry’s mind is that they don’t want to fire a guy mid season and scare off candidates for next year (at least, that’s what I’m justifying in my own mind lol)

Come on, guys. You really think that Stefanski doesn't talk to his coordinators? [Sigh]

Stefanski IS NOT a Head Coach...

A head coach has the ability and experience to influence "the entire team"...offense, defense and special teams.
While Stefanski holds the title of Head Coach, in reality he is the Browns OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR..!

Stefanski just doesn't seem to have the ability to influence the defensive side of the ball and his ability to inspire or motivate the defense appears to be NONEXISTENT.

It looks as though Stefanski simply farmed out his Head Coaching responsibility, as it pertains to the DEFENSE, to Joe Woods.

IMO, Woods is also the Head Coach and has the power to dictate to Stefanski and Berry the type of players he wants on his defensive unit. Woods has the defensive personnel he wanted and lobbied for and we now get to witness what a good talent evaluator Woods is...not so good..!

Nothing wrong with Stefanski focusing more on the offensive side, but he either needs to become more involved with the defensive side or be willing to make the necessary changes to improve HIS DEFENSE.

jmho..mac

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by FATE

j/c...

Absolutely CRAZY.

And then the Browns cut them and they go on to find success elsewhere.

So if I’m deciphering this tweet correctly (I’m not)…..we should cut York, and extend Mike Priefer our special teams coach at the end of the year. Got it!

j/c...

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

Damn, had to make me go Full Editor again.

Translation: He's going to sit them down and say "C'mon guys, I can't be up there answering these same questions again next week. Please start tackling!??!"

The last Ravens/Browns game I was at in Baltimore, Jamal Lewis set the single game rushing record against the Browns. I will be going to the game on the 23rd, so don't be surprised....

Originally Posted by DaveyD

The last Ravens/Browns game I was at in Baltimore, Jamal Lewis set the single game rushing record against the Browns. I will be going to the game on the 23rd, so don't be surprised....

I was at that game as well.

I am not going to the one on the 23rd. If we can't figure out how to slow down the run it will be the longest day ever.

Start him

j/c:

But, he was deemed a "bust" for the season after just one game.

Originally Posted by steve0255

Originally Posted by eotab

This is to Vers and others who are good with stats.

How was our Run D with Walker in at LB. That was a dirty play by the Steelers to brake his leg. Any who...he was the captain of the front 7 and it seems our massive whoas with the run D have been since he went on IR.
Also I am curious on the stats cause Dieon is suppose to be a Mental asset with his commanding the front 7 similar to Walker. If so it might be a big time move getting him.

jmho

Maybe this will help.

The Browns after 5-weeks are ranked 28th against the run.

The Browns defense is ranked 15th in the number of rush attempts against them (middle of the pack) but 28th in yards allowed. The Browns are 30th in YPC at 5.3 with only Detroit 5.5 and the LAChargers 5.8 allowing more. Only Seattle (9) and Detroit (10) have allowed more rushing TD's than the Browns (8).

Browns Game by Game Run Defense Breakdown:
@ Carolina: 54 rush yards allowed, 19 attempts, 2.84 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
NYJets: 93 rush yards allowed, 20 attempts, 4.65 YPC, 0 rushing TD's
Pittsburgh: 104 rush yards allowed, 22 attempts, 4.73 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
@ Atlanta: 202 rush yards allowed, 35 attempts, 5.77 YPC, 2 rushing TD's
LAChargers: 238 rush yards allowed, 34 attempts, 7.00 YPC, 2 rushing TD's

Browns Game by Game Pass Defense Breakdown:
@ Carolina: 16/27 - 59.3%, 235 passing yards, 14.69 YPR, 1 TD, 1 INT
NYJets: 27/45 - 60.0%, 324 passing yards, 12.0 YPR, 4 TD's, 0 INT's
Pittsburgh: 20/32 - 62.5%, 207 passing yards, 10.35 YPR, 0 TD's, 0 INT's
@ Atlanta: 7/19 - 36.8%, 139 passing yards, 19.86 YPR. 0 TD's, 1 INT
LAChargers: 22/34 - 62.9%, 228 passing yards, 10.36 YPR, 1 TD, 0 INT's

The Browns Defense is 27th in passing yards per reception @ 12.3.
The Browns are ranked 14th though in passing yards allowed per game at 215.6.
The Browns are 23rd in QB sacks through 5-games with 9 and ranked tied for 30th in QB Hits with 20 through 5-games.
The only 2 teams with less QB Hits are Minnesota with 19 and Chicago with 16.

Thank you if these stats are correct with Walker we gave up 54, 93 and 104 yards.
Then without him we gave up 202 and 238 yards rushing. Of course the attempts the last two games were a lot more but that was because we weren't stopping anything.

So in my mind I have come to the assumption that a leader for the front 7 is no longer there and the addition we made might help A LOT... jmho

The improvement and the way Stefanski is using Njoku has improved drastically as the season has progressed. Glad he is earning his contract and justifying what we paid him. The narrative that he was labelled a bust after one game is not accurate of course - that might be called a lie by some

- although I do remember posters suggesting that if Njoku's season continued on a similar track (1 reception for less than 10 yards) whether that was going to mean he was over paid/a bust.

One post out of a series of posts by a poster on Njoku after just one game.

Quote

steve0255
All Pro
S
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 829
Likes: 163
North Carolina
Originally Posted by bonefish
Just curious A TE gets one target and he is a bust?

What if he was open? Does blocking count for a TE?

Not when you're paying him an average salary of over 13M per season. He's not a dang rookie, he's been in the league 5-years now and we're still waiting on consistent top tier TE performance. When is he going to produce like a top tier TE like he's being paid for? Teams don't pay TE's over 13M per season for just their blocking ability and neither should the Browns.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

But, he was deemed a "bust" for the season after just one game.

One poster is an exception to the rule not the rule.

The thing I like is how he’s gradually improved. He was struggling for quite a while with catching the ball and blocking, but he’s improved in both areas. Even after earning a paycheck.

He’s been a good player for us

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

But, he was deemed a "bust" for the season after just one game.

One poster is an exception to the rule not the rule.

I think you are missing the pint Pit - Vers with his sneaky manipulation like he always does didn't find a quote by a poster claiming Njoku was a Bust .... he has quoted a post by Bonefish who is clearly responding to a negative post about Njoku and ASKING if he is a bust. If Steve's original post stated as fact - like Vers tried to infer with his original comment - that Njoku was a bust he would simply cut and paste this statement. Instead he's lying and manipulating .... AGAIN.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

The thing I like is how he’s gradually improved. He was struggling for quite a while with catching the ball and blocking, but he’s improved in both areas. Even after earning a paycheck.

He’s been a good player for us

Right now I think everyone would agree 100% with your post!

I think there are some - including me - who have seen such inconsistent play from Njoku through 4 full season, I just need and want to see him complete the season with his current form before I believe this is the new, real Njoku. Lord knows I want it to be - and when he was drafted I loved the pick and his potential.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

The thing I like is how he’s gradually improved. He was struggling for quite a while with catching the ball and blocking, but he’s improved in both areas. Even after earning a paycheck.

He’s been a good player for us

I've always viewed Chief David Njoku as a player with 'potential' who earned everything he's achieved. The key was..he showed improvement and put in the effort.

He earned his nickname..THE CHIEF..

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

The thing I like is how he’s gradually improved. He was struggling for quite a while with catching the ball and blocking, but he’s improved in both areas. Even after earning a paycheck.

He’s been a good player for us

Agreed. Always loved the dude anyway. Always argued his hands were improving (because they were). For the most part, he had rather quietly just "done his job".

TBH, I could see anyone's trepidation leading up to the new contract -- and saying "show me" once it came to pass.

All that said, comparing his performance after the extension to Wards?? Pfffttt... Night and day.

j/c:

I agree w/everyone. He’s a good example of what we need more of: improvement and development (and that’s a two way street, both on the players and the staff). I’m afraid Denzel Ward got his deal and seems to be coasting now.

Originally Posted by mgh888

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

But, he was deemed a "bust" for the season after just one game.

One poster is an exception to the rule not the rule.

I think you are missing the pint Pit - Vers with his sneaky manipulation like he always does didn't find a quote by a poster claiming Njoku was a Bust .... he has quoted a post by Bonefish who is clearly responding to a negative post about Njoku and ASKING if he is a bust. If Steve's original post stated as fact - like Vers tried to infer with his original comment - that Njoku was a bust he would simply cut and paste this statement. Instead he's lying and manipulating .... AGAIN.

Thanks for pointing that out 888. The post I made the first week was in reference to what Njoku has done for 5-years and 1-week. At that point, he wasn't worth the 13M he is being paid. I am pleased with his performance the last few games but 2-3 games do not make a season. If you actually look at what Njoku has done the first 5-games this year compared to the first 5-games all his previous years, 2022 has a few more yards but his YPC are down from last year and TD's are a wash.

In 2022 first 5-games:
29 targets - 24 receptions - 289 yards - 12.0 YPC - 1 TD
In 2021 first 5-games:
17 targets - 14 receptions - 260 yards - 18.6 YPC - 1 TD
In 2020 first 5-games:
on IR 3 of first 5-games
In 2019 first 5 games:
on IR 3 of first 5-games
In 2018 first 5-games:
33 targets - 20 receptions - 190 yards - 9.5 YPC - 0 TD
In 2017 first 5-games:
13 targets - 12 receptions - 118 yards - 9.8 YPC - 3 TD's

Njoku's best year (2018) based on total yards:
88 targets - 56 receptions - 639 yards - 11.4 YPC - 4 TD's
Kelce 2021 (not best year):
134 targets - 92 receptions - 1125 yards - 12.2 YPC - 9 TD's
Andrews 2021 (not best year):
153 targets - 107 receptions - 1361 yards - 12.7 YPC - 9 TD's
Waller's best year (2020):
145 targets - 107 receptions - 1196 yards - 11.2 YPC - 9 TD's
Kittle 2021 (not best year & missed 3-games due to injury):
94 targets - 71 receptions - 910 yards - 12.8 YPC - 6 TD's

You'll have to excuse me for not anointing Njoku as one of the best TE's in football considering his past performance after just 5-games. I'll be a believer after he puts together a 1,000-yard season with 8 plus TD's. Maybe then he'll show that he belongs in the same talk as the other TE's. Afterall, he is in year 6 and being paid like a top tier TE, when will we see a complete season of top tier play?

Good point D4L

I just hope that doesn't take until their 6th NFL season to accomplish like it did with Njoku. That's not a normal timetable. Which was my main concern. He certainly got better over time in his blocking. But blocking TE's are a dime a dozen. From a production standpoint his numbers most certainly did not align with his contract numbers. And as has been said we aren't far enough into the season to predict how this will all go.

He certainly has all of the potential and needed physical attributes to be a great TE. That's just not something we saw in his first five seasons in the NFL.

If we have to wait until year six for draft picks to reach their full potential that will make for a very long time period of them under performing.

Yeah, that’s true PIT. You’d like to think it takes about half as long for a guy to really click with everything

Looking at that list, I'd say that Jacoby and Pocic are really exceeding expectations. I also think that Njoku is establishing himself as a TE who is on the rise. One other thing to note, is that while Wills started off w/a low grade, he is steadily moving up the rankings in the last few weeks. He's actually playing very well and I think he is establishing himself as our long-term LT.

No doubt. I remember when Harris went down and thinking we were relying on Pocic .. and not thinking good thoughts but he’s been very solid.

It’s a little painful for me to always look at our superb offensive grades and rankings and still know that we are under .500. That sucks.

That list also shows we still need some additional reliable targets at WR. I'm guessing Watson will help make the receivers better but we def. still need help there. Need DPJ to take a step forward.. He had a good game last week. Need more of those.

DPJ hasn't been targeted a ton this year, but it appears to me that he is catching the ball when it's thrown to him. I also think he has made a couple of difficult catches. But yeah, we need more help at that position.

DPJ has been a good productive WR based on his draft slot. I like that he makes contested catches and is pretty physical on the outside.

Compare what he’s brought us to what Schwartz has and it’s laughable

This a really interesting article w/charts and videos.

I think DPJ has been even better than the stats show. Brissett has missed him a ton. Glad they are starting to work him into the game plan more.

DPJ is a more than capable #2. I had high hopes after his rookie season, he regressed last year and was battling injuries too. Good to see him doing well again. He can definitely win contested catches and is good at locating and catching the ball at it's high point on deep passes.

IMO with Cooper. DPJ. Njoku, and Bell our WR group isn't that bad but we do need one more productive guy.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

This a really interesting article w/charts and videos.

Once the Browns move on from the Stefanski years, they need to do whatever it takes to retain Bill Callahan...utilize that new brake division.

I agree. I think Cooper is more refined and a better WR than anyone in recent memory. He doesn't bring the attitude and passion Landry did - but he exudes class, has supreme route running and hands, and has a "been here before - doing my job" mentality much like Chubb. Blue collar, no need to spend energy on "look at me" stuff.

Originally Posted by Rishuz

I think DPJ has been even better than the stats show. Brissett has missed him a ton. Glad they are starting to work him into the game plan more.

Brissett has missed alot of guys, he just don't see them. Watson at the helm will show us alot more of where we really are from a receiving standpoint. I think DPJ will look alot better with more targets

Ward and Clowney ruled out against the Pats.

j/c:

Damn.

100m for the 4th lowest rated player on the team, and the bottom of the barrel are all Berry picks. Not a good look for AB

The Ward performance this season has been frustrating. I’m sure the coaches and FO feel the same way

--All on defense ... by coincidence? NO!

--Have many of these players graded out this poorly historically? NO!

--Has the coaching staff put these players in the best position to succeed? Probably not.

I'm kinda starting to wonder if the players might be kinda helping Joe Woods out of Cleveland, or something. It's totally just speculation and wondering out loud, but man, there sure are a lot of guys who are historically among the better players in the league that are ROYALLY sucking wind so far this year.

If a player is dogging it to get a coach fired, said player needs to be shown the door. But I don’t think that is what’s happening.

I have been wondering the same thing.

Originally Posted by lampdogg

If a player is dogging it to get a coach fired, said player needs to be shown the door. But I don’t think that is what’s happening.

Me neither. I think there is evidence enough to show without a doubt there is a problem with the coaching of the Defense. That's Woods - and that is also Stefanski. Being the main influencer over a dynamic offense does not excuse the pee poor defensive showing. And waiting till week 6 to "focus on tackling" which is what so many posters sighted as a major issue all year is taking the Mickey.

I mentioned on a post 5 days ago that maybe our D players just don't like their DC and his scheme. I also mentioned on a post this morning that I'm getting the feeling after reading and listening to some of the players that there is more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Others on this board seem to be feeling the same way.

Some players are best suited for man on man coverage

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

This a really interesting article w/charts and videos.

Looks like Teller has taught him some tricks. WOULD LOVE a line full of Tellers.

Not saying I have any inside information but there does appear to be something off.

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

I'm kinda starting to wonder if the players might be kinda helping Joe Woods out of Cleveland, or something. It's totally just speculation and wondering out loud, but man, there sure are a lot of guys who are historically among the better players in the league that are ROYALLY sucking wind so far this year.

Well where there is smoke ... well you know ... when I hear people [Jake Burns] talk about players "making business decisions" when critiquing the game film. That's usually an indication that your radar on the subject is calibrated correctly. Right or wrong.

Could it be Joe Woods is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with our D players so to speak?

J/c

The article that says we should re-sign Pocic … i never even thought of that before, but it might be a good idea

Originally Posted by Homewood Dog

Could it be Joe Woods is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with our D players so to speak?

Yes! The other teams who run our defensive scheme have their money invested up front, on the DL ... we have mostly invested in our secondary which is great ... but if the system was predicated on having a strong front with depth, then it could be as you said, trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Also because it is not new to the League at this juncture ... the other teams have installed some new defensive coverages like the cover 7 ... we have not evolved where I can tell, making us an easier game plan, but naturally they must still properly execute it.

Unfortunately for us ... they have done just that of late.

Good post. If this is true and it sounds plausible, then we have some problems on D that have to be addressed immediately.

Thanks for the read. I liked Pocic when he was at LSU. He is a great addition to our line. He does a nice job I passpro and run blocking. I like the fact that many times you see #55 well downfield looking to throw another block for the backs. He also seems to be decisive and correct with his line calls.

Darn right we need to extend him. I hope Berry and company aren't looking for Harris to step back in to the starting role. Pocic has pro bowl ability and a guy we can ride with for at least the next 4 years, if not a little longer.

Sign him and and worry about other positions.

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

Not surprising. He is possibly the best end in the game and we offer little else on our pathetic D line to concern other teams.

I assume that 36-37% is on all snaps. If not, I am shocked it is so low if just on passing plays.

No doubt that somebody totally F'ed up when they put together our defensive line. It's a joke. It's hard for me to get all worked up over Joe Woods when given the collection of scrubs we have along the defensive line unless Woods is the guy who pounded the table to draft and keep some of these guys.

The sorry part is it will be guys like Kiffin who will pay for other peoples incompetence. Good players can overcome poor coaching. Good coaching can't do a thing about players who suck. Good coaching can hide a weaker player to some degree if other players around him are good, but not when all of them just don't have what it takes.

I'd bet the ranch that in private conversations Kiffin isn't very high on the group in his room.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

The Ward performance this season has been frustrating. I’m sure the coaches and FO feel the same way

Hospital Ward is a frail punk who now isn't even playing all that well when he isn't sidelined.

Maybe he doesn't like how Joe Wood is playing him and this is how he is showing it. He probably wants to play man coverage !!!

After reading all this wild speculation..............Do we have a new DC this year? I ask, because overall, the D played well last year and got better as the season went along.

I'll add this for some to contemplate. The 4-2-5 utilizes a lot of smaller, faster, more agile players than most other defenses. The idea is that they can cover more ground and provide better coverage in leagues that are pass happy, including the NFL and many college conferences. However, these defenses have big, strong, block-eating DTs to compensate for the lighter players that comprise the rest of the defense. The DTs are not exactly asked to make a ton of tackles and they aren't usually penetrators. But they eat blocks, clog the middle of the field, and allow the faster, lighter players to run free. It is my contention that the FO has done a good job of finding the faster, more athletic players, but have failed miserably at acquiring strong, space-eating DTs. I haven't made a final determination of whether or not I like the 4-2-5. No team that I was ever associated used that defense and it wasn't as popular as it is now when I was coaching.

I will also add this. After the first two games of the year, it was the secondary that had everyone concerned. The blown coverages late in games was the main issue. Adjustments were indeed made and the play of the secondary has improved significantly. Of course, the run D has been terrible the last 3 weeks or so. One thing that I have noticed that isn't getting mentioned in all the blame-gaming of the coaching staff is that guys are often in position and are simply missing tackles. JOK is weak. Guys run through his tackles all the time. Other guys are in position and whiff. Guys like Phillips can't shed a block to save their life. We have also been exploited when Myles and Clowney are not on the field. And we do not have one effective DT on the roster. They all blow!

My take won't be popular because it does not include trying to fit a square peg into a round hole or the players don't like the coach or there is dark issue permeating the locker room or that we don't practice things enough, etc, etc. That's fine because I do know that there are folks out there who are often quiet, but like reading my takes on football matters.

I have no problem with your take. You are right.

The backfield problem hasn't been all that frequent, but they have been big when it has happened..

The DT's are a big problem. Not one of them requires a double team, which is a big problem. If those guys can't ho;d their ground, we are sunk, which we are. Unless we bring in a few big guys, which it looks like we might be trying to do, we are going to continue to see this D give up endless 1st downs. Bryan looks to be the only one who is somewhat good at that, and even then he is more of a decent back-up at the position.

Agreed.

One thing I did not mention is that I read probably 10-12 articles on the 4-2-5 and watched multiple videos and it was emphasized over and over again how you needed big DTs to offset all the smaller players. Some of the college teams even put a huge guy at Nose, even though they had a 4-man front.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

... overall, the D played well last year and got better as the season went along....

Along those lines, and this was observation, but I don't know how to look up exact numbers to see if this observation is correct or not.
It seems like at the start of last season we hardly blitzed at all. Then after about 1/3 of the season we blitzed a lot more and we were very successful at that.
Safety here, lb there, occasional CB and appeared pretty successful most of the time.

Haven't watched a lot of the games this year, but I don't remember seeing any blitzes at all.
Are we not blitzing much or have we been unsuccessful at it?
Or have a I must missed the blitzing?

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Agreed.

One thing I did not mention is that I read probably 10-12 articles on the 4-2-5 and watched multiple videos and it was emphasized over and over again how you needed big DTs to offset all the smaller players. Some of the college teams even put a huge guy at Nose, even though they had a 4-man front.

Funny you say that. It has crossed my mind that we might be better off with a 5 man front. It seems to me that we might have at least a few of those somewhat faster D lineman that we could drop one in to some sort of zone now and again.

I know we blitzed more last year than in Woods' first year here. I looked that up at one point last year. Not sure about when we started blitizing more? I am also unsure about this year's numbers, but it doesn't seem like we blitz much. I will try and look it up later. I'm glad we didn't blitz Herbert much. He's really good and would have destroyed the blitz. Really good qb like him, Mahomes, and others punish you for blitzing.

I think a crucial point gets missed. I want pressure, and I want that challenge on receivers and QB's, as opposed to some of the dumb cushions we show regularly. The point is how well you blitz, how effectively. We have a great pass rusher, so we put him in coverage. Like a pair of great running backs so you pass in crush time. Even when we blitz, we seem fairly poor at it, guys slow to go, quit part way through, freeze and lean. Other teams seem more disruptive to me and more ambitious. Getting home has an element of want to. Are we as devastating as we can possibly be when we blitz? I don't think so.

More info on the blitz percentage. First of all, I was wrong about blitzing more last year than the year before. I must have looked that up earlier in the year and we reverted back to what we did the previous year. Here some numbers:

2022:
--We blitz 22.2% of the time. That is 23rd most in the NFL.
--NYG most @ 43.3%. Arizona second at 41.7%. Detroit 3rd @ 35.9%.
--Buffalo last @ 13.5%. Chicago is 31st @13.9%. NO is 30th @ 15.1%.

2021:
--We blitzed 22.1% of the time.

2020:
--We blitzed 21.3% of the time.

Draw your own conclusions.

One thing I'll add is that most defensive coaches would love to never blitz and just rush 4. That puts more guys in coverage and helps negate long runs where the back gets to the second level. It's just really hard to find a front four that can put a ton of heat on the passer and still play the run. Those DLs are very rare.

Another thing to think about is that a lot of the good defenses do not blitz a lot. Buffalo has an excellent D, even though they are banged up at the moment. Teams like Chicago and NO typically have good defenses. Detroit and AZ have poor defenses. The Giants are an outlier in my opinion. Their DC is Wink Martindale, who is notorious for blitzing a ton. He was the guy who was w/Baltimore last year and had the before and after the game w/Joe Burrow. Here is a link to that story:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/game...ale-comments-fueled-historic-performance

In regards to when we blitz: it seems like it’s always so slow developing. Like it takes FOREVER to have the LB/DB finally get into the backfield lol. It’s always ugly

It seems as though you agree that in the past two seasons the D has been poor the first 5 or 6 games of the year. At least we know that's true this year.... so far. we have no idea how long that will persist this season however. Why would you have an established system in its third season that still continues to struggle in such a manner?

I certainly have said and agree that the DT position to a large degree and the LB position to a somewhat lesser degree have been ignored on the priority list. The question that looms heavy in that is whether it's Woods telling the FO he is fine with the personnel he has at those positions or whether it's the FO hesitating to invest at those positions.

No, we didn't hire a new DC. But people don't live and succeed on what they did do. They live and succeed by what they're doing.

I started reading about a new D scheme DC are using the cover 7. Don't know much about it except 4 D players cover the strong side while 3 cover the weak side and play man to man. I guess we haven't done it yet.

j/c

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

One thing I'll add is that most defensive coaches would love to never blitz and just rush 4. That puts more guys in coverage and helps negate long runs where the back gets to the second level. It's just really hard to find a front four that can put a ton of heat on the passer and still play the run. Those DLs are very rare.

Another thing to think about is that a lot of the good defenses do not blitz a lot. Buffalo has an excellent D, even though they are banged up at the moment. Teams like Chicago and NO typically have good defenses. Detroit and AZ have poor defenses. The Giants are an outlier in my opinion. Their DC is Wink Martindale, who is notorious for blitzing a ton. He was the guy who was w/Baltimore last year and had the before and after the game w/Joe Burrow. Here is a link to that story:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/game...ale-comments-fueled-historic-performance

Agree with all that.
As a commentary on that:

1, I don't think we get enough pressure on Qb's with just our front 4
2, We can also run blitz to try to slow the opponents run game

When I watch Garrett press conferences and read his quotes, I’m always a little perplexed lol. He is a very atypical interviewee.

Garrett is a fraud like Stefanski. No killer instinct. Doesn't care if we win or lose. He spent the entire San Diego game doing the exact same thing over and over without recognizing it was exactly what they wanted him to do and he never changed it up. They were inviting him to rush upfield where Herbert simply took two steps forward every single time. Or they just threw/rushed to his vacated area. They did it repeatedly. He never changed. And when we needed a play it was Clowney making it. Ten times the heart of Garrett.

I'm so sick of Cleveland having loser coaches and loser players.

Some of our players act like they are unhappy and don't want to be here. JMO

Originally Posted by Homewood Dog

Some of our players act like they are unhappy and don't want to be here. JMO

I don't want them to be here either.

Quote

And when we needed a play it was Clowney making it. Ten times the heart of Garrett.

Right! Clowney misses more practices than he participates in. He misses way more games than Myles. Myles is the one that faces more double teams than any player in the league. And I'm guessing more triple teams, as well. But yeah. Clowner has more heart. LMAO

Joe Thomas missed a lot of practices too. But he was always money on game day.

I'm shocked you haven't said anything about his comments to the press. You know, blaming the fans for booing a poor performance from the D. There have been others.

Okay so I'm not really shocked by it. I fully understand that's a pick and choose situation for some people.

I'll add one other thing to this as well ...

It would have been nice if Stefanski supported JJ3 in public even if he ripped him in private. Why doesn't Stefanski take up for his team. It's obvious they don't play for him. And to have Stefanski come out and say "we can't do that" I guarantee rubbed JJ3 and other players the wrong way. Show some emotion Kev. Yell at the refs Kev. Support your players Kev. They are letting you down consistently. They don't get up to play for you.

Originally Posted by GratefulDawg

Looking at Browns numbers are always eye-popping. What a start to that 1958 season. And 1527 yards in a 12 game season?? Wowza.

Look at poor Washington... shut him down the second game, after getting smoked the first... and still lost.

Just wondering if you want to reconsider your take on the hearts of Myles and Clowney after watching yesterday's game?

Did something happen that should cause me to change my mind?

Nevermind.

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Did something happen that should cause me to change my mind?

No...but you already knew that.

j/c...

Only thing I could find on either guy....

https://www.linkedin.com/in/austingrosel

https://www.thefouscholarship.com/about-us.html

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

Only thing I could find on either guy....

https://www.linkedin.com/in/austingrosel

https://www.thefouscholarship.com/about-us.html

HOORAY - WE ARE SAVED !!

LMAO

"We need more analysts... there's a glitch in the analytics and we'll never get to the bottom of it without more analyzin' goin' on!"

Good, we need more analytics

Anyone heard an update on Myles?

Myles Garrett fine after aggravating shoulder injury, expects to play in Week 7

Garrett exited the Browns’ loss against the Patriots in the fourth quarter after aggravating a shoulder injury
Oct 17, 2022 at 09:23 AM

Anthony Poisal
Staff Writer

Myles Garrett exited the Browns' 38-15 loss to the Patriots in the fourth quarter Sunday after aggravating the shoulder injury he suffered in a car accident on Sept. 26, but the three-time Pro Bowl DE doesn't expect to miss any time.

"It could be better," Garrett said. "I've been dealing with it since the accident and trying to manage it and be in the best position to play come Sunday. Certain falls and tackles are going to aggravate it and make it worse.

"At the end of the day, I want to win. This whole team wants to win, and I'm always going to put them first. I'm always going to go out there and try my very best, no matter what is ailing me or how bad I'm hurting or aching. I'm going to put my guys first, and we're going to go out there and play our best ball."

Garrett was in visible pain and walked off the field with trainers after he sacked Patriots QB Bailey Zappe with five minutes left. He didn't return to the game, but the result was already out of favor for the Browns, who stopped the Patriots on that drive but muffed the ensuing punt and lost possession. New England scored a touchdown on the next play to increase their lead to 31-15.

Garrett affirmed he'll still be ready to play next week against the Ravens.

"I played today, and I will be playing next week," he said.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...houlder-injury-expects-to-play-in-week-7

Gratzi....

Of course I didn't look at THAT site for news.

I'm hopeful the calf scans on Teller show that he is going to return next week. His absence would be a huge blow.

It would be.

Though with our run defense I am not sure anything on offense is going to help.

j/c:

This article actually makes some good points. I agree that it might be time to bench a few of these guys. I know they are Berry draft picks or one of his FA acquisitions, but some of them are really playing poorly.

Quote

4 Downs: What to take away from Browns loss vs. Patriots
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Cory Kinnan
October 17, 2022 12:53 pm ET

The good in this matchup between the Cleveland Browns and New England Patriots is minimal. The Browns laid an egg and got outclassed by Bill Belichick and his team. With back-to-back weeks against division rivals, the season hangs in the balance with how this team responds after dropping to 2-4 on the year.

For now, we move forward with another edition of 4 Downs as we look to identify what stood out the most from this beatdown at FirstEnergy Stadium. What can we take away from this loss to the Patriots? Is there any hope left in this season that is beginning to look like was punted on from the start?

1st Down: Stop the Myles Garrett discourse

There is a great deal of anger from the fanbase, and it is being misdirected at All-Pro pass rusher Myles Garrett. On a day when he set the franchise sack record at just 26 years old (and even added a second sack on what was a crucial time at the time), Garrett has become a punching bag.

And it is complete madness as he could not be doing much more than he already is. He is still playing through a mangled shoulder that was sprained in his car accident, and yet is leaving it all on the field for the Browns.

He gets pressure at the rate of a top pass rusher in the league (that he is) and racked up a massive eight pressures against the Patriots alone. He graded out as an elite player on the day according to PFF and was well in the green as a run defender as well.

What more could you want out of a guy getting double-teamed at a rate no other pass rusher is seeing along a defensive line that has no other capable talent next to him at defensive tackle?

2nd Down: Time to start benching players regardless of status

We are six weeks into the season and still seeing the poor play from players who were expected to be significant contributors. Some of these players were drafted with high draft assets, and others are on a big free agent tab, but it is time to start benching underperformers regardless of status.

The biggest offender in this category is former second round pick Grant Delpit. He has been abysmal in coverage, and while he has flashed in run support, has not been worthy of putting in the field in 2022. Unfortunately, Ronnie Harrison has not been better, but maybe it is time to give the undrafted free agent D’Anthony Bell some reps to see what he can do. It is hard for this to go further south.

Linebacker Jacob Phillips is likely out of the starting lineup the moment Deion Jones is activated from Injured Reserve, but we are to the point where Jordan Kunaszyk is worth the look at the second level over the former third rounder.

John Johnson III, a massive free agent add at the time, has been volatile as well. While he graded out well yesterday according to PFF, his effort level has been extremely poor from the third level of the Cleveland defense. As there is an out in his contract after this season if designated as a post-June 1 cut, we are trending towards a situation where Johnson III may not see a third season in the brown and orange.

Now is the time for complete accountability.

3rd Down: Cade York rebounds nicely in Cleveland

Earlier this week, special teams coordinator Mike Priefer reiterated his confidence in the Browns’ rookie kicker. After missing two kicks against the Los Angeles Chargers a week ago, Cade York rebounded nicely against the Patriots.

The Cleveland offense stunk and could not get into the redzone with as much frequency as they did the first five weeks. York was forced to kick some long field goals and still managed to put points on the board for the Browns. On the day, York went 3-for-3 on field goals with a long of 51 yards. He also knocked one through from 48 and 39 yards out.

Drafted in the fourth round of the 2022 NFL Draft, the leash on York is going to be long given the asset they gave up to get him. However, it is still nice to see him rebound from his first bout of adversity as a professional kicker. We hope he is the cure to the Cleveland kicking woes since the departure of Phil Dawson after the 2012 season.

4th Down: The Jacoby Brissett regression is real

This was to be expected. A career-long journeyman spot starter and backup quarterback has begun to play as such over the past two weeks. And yet it still hurts to watch it on TV.

Brissett is not a starting quarterback in this league and has not been asked to be one in recent years. The Browns knew this, we knew this, and yet we still get upset when he does not play like one. His play was unacceptable yesterday, but not completely out of the blue.

To be honest, we are going to see some more rough football out of Brissett. We are also going to see a few more efficient games out of Brissett as well. This is what the Browns signed up for this season when they brought him in to cover the gaps over their first 11 games.

While he played well over the first three games, the regression from Brissett is very real. But it is not completely unexpected.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lists/browns-4-downs-patriots-2022/

jc

Weren't we supposedly a good QB away from being a super bowl contender? We seem to need more than just a QB.

ON O yes. We now can see our D was overrated. WE may need a good 4 or 5 new players on D to become a good unit.

Originally Posted by Homewood Dog

ON O yes. We now can see our D was overrated. WE may need a good 4 or 5 new players on D to become a good unit.

And by that time, we will need new RBs and OL.

Of course the D was over rated. It faced a bunch back-ups
And aging vet QBs on the schedule last year (2021)which
Distorted the defensive numbers
Now in 2022, the defense is worse cause it can't beat guys
Like Joe Flacco (aging) or Bailey Zappe (2nd career start)
Or Marcus Mariotta (journeyman).and here's the kicker
The worst QB In the league had his best game vs this defense
(Baker Can't see the Field)

Originally Posted by FATE

LMAO

"We need more analysts... there's a glitch in the analytics and we'll never get to the bottom of it without more analyzin' goin' on!"

The deal is you never know what they were hired for. They might be looking a traffic patterns around the stadium before and after games, or various restroom usages. It may have nothing to do with players.

It's kind of baffling that in this day and age some people still believe that analytics are not important. I'm not just talking about football. I'm talking in any organization.

What's baffling is people suggesting anyone said Analytics are not important. Something no-one said (unless it was Mac, but TBH I don't think he said that either) - what people have talked about is placing too much emphasis on analytics and SPARQ scores.

PFF GRADES THROUGH 6-weeks

TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES:
___________________________________0 players currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
___________________________________3 players currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Chubb - RB - 88.4 - 1st of 62 - Georgia - 2018
Bitonio - G - 85.7 - 1st of 75 - Nevada - 2014
Teller - G - 85.3 - 2nd of 75 - Virginia Tech - 2018
___________________________________6 players performing at Starter Level 84-70
Njoku - TE - 81.6 - 3rd of 67 - Miami, FL - 2017
Cooper - WR - 75.1 - 24th of 110 - Alabama - 2016
Froholdt - G - 75.0 - NR - Arkansas - 2019
Pocic - C - 74.6 - 3rd of 37 - LSU - 2017
Brissett - QB - 74.2 - 10th of 36 - NC State - 2016
Conklin - OT - 71.7 - 21st of 76 - Michigan St - 2016
___________________________________8 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
Hudson - OT - 68.8 - 34th of 76 - Cincinnati - 2021
Wills - OT - 66.8 - 43rd of 76 - Alabama - 2020
DPJ - WR - 66.6 - 53rd of 110 - Michigan - 2020
Woods II - WR - 64.4 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
Hunt - RB - 63.6 - 38th of 62 - Toledo - 2017
Johnson - RB - 63.0 - NR - South Florida - 2019
Brown - TE - 62.6 - 29th of 67 - Oregon - 2017
Haeg - OT - 60.0 - NR - N Dakota St - 2016
___________________________________8 players currently performing at Replaceable Level 59-0
Forristall - TE - 59.7 - NR - Alabama - 2021
York - K - 57.1 - 33rd of 39 - LSU - 2022
Felton - WR - 56.1 - NR - UCLA - 2021
Bell - WR - 51.3 - 108th of 110 - Purdue - 2022
Dunn - OT - 51.1 - NR - Maryland - 2017
Bryant - TE - 50.7 - 60th of 67 - Florida Atlantic - 2020
Schwartz - WR - 49.3 - NR - Auburn - 2021
James - TE - 42.2 - NR - Penn St - 2015

TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADE
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Garrett - Edge - 93.1 - 1st of 115 - Texas A&M - 2017
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Clowney - Edge - 88.8 - 9th of 115 - South Carolina - 2014
___________________________________6 players currently performing at Starter Level 84-70
Walker - LB - 82.7 - 5th of 80 (Injured, out for season) - Northwestern - 2017
Fields -- LB - 79.9 - NR - West Virginia - 2021
Bojorquez - P - 77.5 - 5th of 32 - New Mexico - 2018
Emerson - CB - 74.9 - 14th of 108 - Mississippi St - 2022
Kunaszyk - LB - 74.6 - NR - California - 2019
Takitaki - LB - 71.1 - 18th of 80 - BYU - 2019
___________________________________3 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
D. Bell - S - 64.4 - NR - West Florida Argonauts - 2022
Newsome - CB - 63.2 - 54th of 108 - Northwestern - 2021
JOK - LB - 60.7 - 45th of 80 - Notre Dame - 2021
___________________________________15 players currently performing Replaceable Level 59-0
Johnson - S - 59.3 - 55th of 87 - Boston Coll - 2017
Delpit - S - 54.2 - 69th of 87 - LSU - 2020
Rochell - Edge - 52.7 - 100th of 115 - Notre Dame - 2017
Harrison - S - 51.5 - NR - Alabama - 2018
Thomas - Edge - 51.5 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
Bryan - DT - 50.7 - 93rd of 121 - Florida - 2018
Williams - CB - 50.7 - NR - LSU - 2019
Winfrey - DT - 43.0 - 106th of 121 - Oklahoma - 2022
Wright - Edge - 43.0 - 113th of 115 - UAB - 2022
Winovich - Edge - 42.4 - NR - Michigan - 2019
Ward - CB - 39.8 - 102nd of 108 - Ohio St - 2018
Phillips - LB - 37.3 - 77th of 80 - LSU - 2020
Elliott - DT - 33.2 - 117th of 121 - Missouri - 2020
Togiai - DT - 29.9 - 120th of 121 - Ohio St - 2021
Green - CB - 29.0 - NR - Oklahoma St - 2020

NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum

SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play

Look at those defensive grades … pathetic

Originally Posted by Ballpeen

Originally Posted by FATE

LMAO

"We need more analysts... there's a glitch in the analytics and we'll never get to the bottom of it without more analyzin' goin' on!"

The deal is you never know what they were hired for. They might be looking a traffic patterns around the stadium before and after games, or various restroom usages. It may have nothing to do with players.

It was obviously a joke. And if that other post was a jab at me... well, weak. I'm a huge proponent of analytics for all things. I just think our guys seem to get lost in the algorithms at times and become afraid to make a decision that doesn't fall in line with the math 100%.

That said, we have the largest dept in sports already. If we were concerned about traffic patterns, I'm sure at least ten of these people could spend a week on it in the offseason. Keep up the on-the-field antics and no one is worrying about traffic anyway.

My real first thought when reading the news was wondering if Berry approved the hires and considering saying "hey, please don't report these hires to the media". lol

j/c...

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/aaron-crawford/32004352-4153-8498-754b-b4a50e55788d

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/aaron-crawford/32004352-4153-8498-754b-b4a50e55788d

Cannon fodder up the middle, right?

Dobbins with the gimpy leg for 120 yds regardless.

Hope not.

I said it the week after the car accident, and I'll say it again here: We will not see pro-bowl Myles until next season. This is going to mess with him the same way covid did. He's never going to play better than 80% Myles for the rest of the season.

If we get two sacks including a strip-sack/fumble out of him every week, I'm okay with what you are calling 80% Myles the rest of the year!!!!

80% Myles is still better than what most teams have, for sure.
No arguments from me.

You could see that Myles was dealing w/a multitude of issues against NE. He showed a lot of heart playing through the fatigue and shoulder issue, but he was clearly compromised.

Good news, here.

j/c...

Thanks for the memories, Richard!

j/c:

Looks like he has been cut.

The only issue I have with Myles is that he almost always tries to beat his guy around the outside, hardly ever uses any inside moves and that leaves a big hole on that side for the opposing RB to run thru or for the opposing team to throw short passes to either a crossing WR, or to a TE, or screen passes to a RB. He's so busy trying to get to the QB that he forgets about the running game.

Wow, how low can Berry go? Crawford played in 1 game in 2020, zero games in 2021, and has been sitting at home since 2020. Actually, the guy has played 1 game in his career and that was in 2020 and the Browns give him a try out for an answer to our DT woes. I'd say it's getting pretty obvious that Berry has either no intent or maybe no idea how to fix the problems at DT. Hell man - Malik Jackson, Malik McDowell, and Sheldon Day are all just sitting at home and better than what the hell Berry is fielding now. Berry can't even use the McDowell arrest as an excuse after signing the sexual predator to a mega deal. Really, what the hell is Berry doing?

j/c...

Originally Posted by mgh888

What's baffling is people suggesting anyone said Analytics are not important. Something no-one said (unless it was Mac, but TBH I don't think he said that either) - what people have talked about is placing too much emphasis on analytics and SPARQ scores.

And there is the actual truth. Analytics is a wonderful tool and I highly doubt almost anyone would disagree with that. However all by itself it's not the be all end all of everything. What numbers alone will not tell you is how a player will progress and learn to make his potential manifest on the football field. A player that plays to 90% of his potential with a lower SPARQ score is better than a player who may score higher but has thus far only reached 40% of his potential. Only game film will tell you how a players talents and potential are translating on the field of play.

We see it all the time. It's not always the fastest guy, the strongest guy or the smartest guy that makes a great player. It's often time the player with the best football instincts that simply has a nose for the game. And the film shows you that. I'm still amazed to this day how far Clay Matthews the 3rd fell in the draft because you know, his measurables just didn't seem to add up.

There s a delicate balance on which ingredients and how much of each ingredient you use to determine draft picks on. I think that in this regime it's quite possible that too much emphasis is focused on analytics and too little focus is being given to game film.

It would appear the carryover from last year is getting worse. It's kinda ugly when a HC and player go after one another in a locker room setting. Sure sounds like some players are having an issue with the HC but hey. it could be just my imagination because I've been told my hatred makes me post these posts. 22-20 now under Stefanski's rein and never finished a year better than 3rd place in the division (just like Williams and Freddie). Might be why Garrett is lashing out but somethings not right in that locker room.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=559e9b752bfd4523b8a5bd5d9162c343

There’s been an undercurrent of drama in our locker room for the past year+ … maybe some is carry over from last year and maybe some is frustration with the Watson situation and the lack of success so far

I don't see fire and emotions as a bad thing. The team needs some of that. I see it as a good thing. I might even say it is about time.

No doubt it can be bad if it becomes a normal thing. This can be a turning point. Now we will find out if it is for the good or for the bad.

This.

I can't tell you how excited I am to know that Stefanski is capable of raising his voice.

Originally Posted by FATE

This.

I can't tell you how excited surprised I am to know that Stefanski is capable of raising his voice.

As always - it's a balance. I agree with posters who have suggested that head coaches who are ALL about emotions and motivation have a short shelf life - maybe 2 years - before players tune out from hearing the same "rah rah" stuff each game. But to have no emotions, to keep everything calm and cerebral, to not be able to rally, cajole and occasionally hit the "fire em up" routine is just as bad. Both approaches are needed. My question hearing the "screaming" after the game - that's not motivational and pumping a team up to play - that sounds like angst and dysfunction and frustration.

Originally Posted by steve0255

It would appear the carryover from last year is getting worse. It's kinda ugly when a HC and player go after one another in a locker room setting. Sure sounds like some players are having an issue with the HC but hey. it could be just my imagination because I've been told my hatred makes me post these posts. 22-20 now under Stefanski's rein and never finished a year better than 3rd place in the division (just like Williams and Freddie). Might be why Garrett is lashing out but somethings not right in that locker room.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=559e9b752bfd4523b8a5bd5d9162c343

It's funny people want Stefanski to be fired up in press conferences and then put blame on him for two people yell at one another after a loss. Further, Garrett is an amazing player (doesn't get enough love on here, I might add) but let's not pretend he doesn't carry his own immaturities as we've seen countless times since he has been here. Just because Garrett might be getting in an argument with his coach, doesn't mean it he is right and Stefanski is wrong.

I don't want to see KS get fired. I think we need a little tweaking maybe a new DC but not KS, We've lost 4 games by 9 points and we were still in the Pats game until those 2 costly TO's at the end. If is a big word but with DW playing and 2 good DT we could easily be 6-1 no worse than 5-2. We don't need to blow anything up. Just a few good moves. JMO

Originally Posted by FATE

This.

I can't tell you how excited I am to know that Stefanski is capable of raising his voice.

This. I want the team, especially the head coach and the team's best player, to care about winning. To date, neither of those two guys have and they are seeing their careers starting to flash before their eyes. Hopefully this is a huge wake up call.

Please prioritize winning. Not wearing capes to press conferences and not burying your face in the waffle house menu.

All focus and attention should be on winning games.

You know, you make some pretty good football points and then ruin them by going over the top with some speculative crap with no basis. You do realize people don't need to throw a tantrum to care about winning, right? You do understand that their careers hinge on winning and production right? To suggest that isn't their top priority seems more than a little foolish.

I’ve had coaches with all different personalities. I don’t care about KS’s demeanor, but I also think something needs to be done about our D and ST. You can be calm and collected but still demand changes.

There’re credible rumors about lack of culture and leadership inside the Browns locker room.

Originally Posted by mgh888

Originally Posted by FATE

This.

I can't tell you how excited surprised I am to know that Stefanski is capable of raising his voice.

My question hearing the "screaming" after the game - that's not motivational and pumping a team up to play - that sounds like angst and dysfunction and frustration.

Not necessairly. No doubt some frustration but I wouldn't say dysfunction. At least it might not be. Calling out players or coaches might not be dysfunction.

It might become the spark this team needed. It just depends on how people carry it forward. It could become that if allowed.

It's possible. And maybe dysfunction is too strong a word for the incident.

That said - the time for motivation and emotions to get fired up is before and during a game not after.

Njoku has been a bright spot for us. I give him credit … hopefully he can return quickly and keep up his good play

With the Jets losing RB Hall for the season and trade deadline coming soon what is the chance that K. Hunt could be a Jet? Could be a good move for both teams (players and/or picks)

Originally Posted by OrangeHelmet

With the Jets losing RB Hall for the season and trade deadline coming soon what is the chance that K. Hunt could be a Jet? Could be a good move for both teams (players and/or picks)

They were just talking about that on the radio here in Columbus.? They said the Jets and Rams are going to go hard after Hunt. They said Rams were all in on CMC, with alot of picks and even throwing in Akers. As for the Jets, Hunt for Elijah Moore and a 5th.

Didn’t hear who they were talking to, caught it about halfway through the interview.

Damn, that sucks about Njoku. Hopefully, it's 2 weeks and not 5.

As far as trading Hunt goes.............Rams make more sense to me than Jets. Michael Carter is a pretty good, young back for the Jets. Rams have apparently given up on Akers.

I'm thinking both can't wait to get out of Cleveland.
I can see Hunt going to the Giants, Chargers, Vikings
Greedy who knows...maybe Philly

Not sure how much weight this report actually carries, but....

He's not very good, but I feel bad for the guy.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

He's not very good, but I feel bad for the guy.

Mary Kay talked up this guy like he was the next coming
Of Zack Thomas in August
She's the female version of Nathan Zegura

Stick a fork in em.

Originally Posted by steve0255

It would appear the carryover from last year is getting worse. It's kinda ugly when a HC and player go after one another in a locker room setting. Sure sounds like some players are having an issue with the HC but hey. it could be just my imagination because I've been told my hatred makes me post these posts. 22-20 now under Stefanski's rein and never finished a year better than 3rd place in the division (just like Williams and Freddie). Might be why Garrett is lashing out but somethings not right in that locker room.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=559e9b752bfd4523b8a5bd5d9162c343

This article, by some guy that was not even present covering the game, implies that the shouting was between Garrett and Stefanski, it was not. Zac Jackson who was standing just outside the locker room. The shouting was amongst the players, which is actually not a bad thing at all, shows they still care.

The one comment Zac Jackson said he clearly heard someone in the locker room shout was, "there's no [bleeping] leadership!" He mentioned this on 92.3 with Dustin Fox and was reported by Jason Lloyd in The Athletic. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if some of that isn't directed at JJ III.

On another note, Jim Donovan was on WKNR this morning discussing the team and he said that going back to training camp he noticed too many players taking days off, standing around or riding the stationary bike. He mentioned he felt that some of the players, particularly on defense, felt as though they had arrived with all the talk (in the media) of how they were a top 5 defense. He also noted, how many of the young players never had to earn their starting jobs, but were handed the job. Donovan noted he got the sense that several players on defense carried themselves with a sense of entitlement that had not been earned. Specifically, he pointed out Greg Newsome who is yet to even record an interception in his career and one pass defended on the season.

Donovan said he would not be surprised to see the Browns go in selling mode knowing the Browns need draft capital and he surprisingly brought up the thought of Denzel Ward being an option.

He does not believe anybody will be fired during the season, but will be evaluated at the end of the season, which is likely the right call. There is nobody in the organization that will step in and turn the ST around and it is highly doubtful that promoting Jason Tarver (only person on the team with past DC experience) would get any defensive struggles to do a 180.

I expect a long rest of the season.

Phillips has had 2-3 major injuries in a short amount of time (and struggled when he was on the field). That might be it

Thanks for posting this news.

The culture crap is being manufactured by a few posters who are doing what they always do. Not worth wasting time on beyond mentioning it.

I will say that the comments about not having to earn their jobs and believing their press clippings is concerning. That might be a Berry issue. I like the guy and want him to stay, but the fact that we didn't cut any of our draft choices two straight years in a row makes me raise an eyebrow. Of course, it's also a problem if Woods and Stefanski just buy into that. I hope that it isn't true. I kinda disagree w/Donovan on Newsome. He seems to be playing hard. I also am not sure about going into a selling mode.

I've been saying for awhile that if Woods needs to go, it should be after the season concludes. Emotional reactions are rarely intelligent decisions.

The team apparently lacks leadership at all three levels...FO, coaching staff, and players.

I'm reading the news about the upcoming fire sale and am scratching my head at how that solves the leadership issue. It doesn't. This team is so maddening.

Donovan's comments on camp cupcake are disappointing. We all knew that was happening but were hoping it wouldn't play out on the field.

Where is the leadership on this team?

And now we are stuck having a crappy team until leaders emerge or there is turnover hoping to solve the leadership void.

Donovan wasn't really bagging on Newsome per se, it was more about the sense on how they carry themselves on and off the field. It was more so, you carry yourself around like a superstar, but what have you truly done on the field. He wasn't burying Newsome just describing some of the entitlement issues he notices. Hopefully, that clarifies a bit.

One issue raised by Browns sideline reporter, Je'Rod Cherry and WKNR host (he admittedly said this was more speculation on his part, than anything concrete), was how much control Stefanski truly had on who plays and who does not. Questioned whether or not Stefanski had complete and total autonomy over who plays, hence the lack of benching certain players. Again, speculation on his part, but if something like happens to be the case, not good.

It'll all come out in the wash over as the rest of the season plays out.

Originally Posted by Rishuz

I'm reading the news about the upcoming fire sale and am scratching my head at how that solves the leadership issue. It doesn't. This team is so maddening.

Je'Rod Cherry mentioned this very point when Donovan was discussing Berry selling off players to try get back into the first round in next year's draft. Cherry said to Donovan, "that's great and all if you sell off some players and get some draft picks, but how does that solve the entitlement issues we are seeing with some of the young guys on the team that were handed starting positions without having to truly earn them? When you have young players that are handed starting roles without earning them, they sometimes will tune out veteran leadership because there is no fear of losing playing time."

With both Donovan and Cherry being a part of the Browns radio broadcast they are privy to seeing a lot more behind the scenes than the beat reporters.

It'll be interesting to see how this team responds over the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Donovan wasn't really bagging on Newsome per se, it was more about the sense on how they carry themselves on and off the field. It was more so, you carry yourself around like a superstar, but what have you truly done on the field. He wasn't burying Newsome just describing some of the entitlement issues he notices. Hopefully, that clarifies a bit.

One issue raised by Browns sideline reporter, Je'Rod Cherry and WKNR host (he admittedly said this was more speculation on his part, than anything concrete), was how much control Stefanski truly had on who plays and who does not. Questioned whether or not Stefanski had complete and total autonomy over who plays, hence the lack of benching certain players. Again, speculation on his part, but if something like happens to be the case, not good.

It'll all come out in the wash over as the rest of the season plays out.

Thanks for all the information and also the clarification. It's appreciated.

I feel bad for Phillips. I liked him coming out of LSU and thought when he got healthy, he would be a solid player for us. Guess I was wrong. I don't want to see KS fired but I do think we have to get someone in here that's tough with the players especially on D. Say what you want about Mangini, but the players played hard for him and respected him. We were a run first team with him as HC and pounded the Pats one game and really pushed them around when they had more talent than they do now, and we had less talent than we do now. I'm not saying hire him I'm just making a point about the coaching.

Rish, this is not an insult at all. People react differently to situations. Not saying anyone's reaction is good or bad. I have read your posts--and posts from several others--that has been so negative and full of angst the last several weeks. Everything is negative, negative, negative and the world is ending. I can't live my life that way. I would quit watching if I truly felt that this organization was as bad as you guys say they are. I am enough of a realist to recognize that there are issues, but I think most of these will be resolved. I actually see a bright future for this team. I just can't let an outside force influence my mood like some of you do. Life is short and I don't want to spend so much time feeling miserable over a freaking football team.

Vers, I posted earlier today that I don't want to see KS get fired although I think we need a change at DC. We've lost 4 games by 9 points, and we were even in the Pats game until those 2 late TO's. I feel that with a couple of tweaks we could be a much better team. Just with DW playing at his normal level and 2 good DT we could easily be 5-2 or 6-1.

We can rule the Jets trading for Hunt.

Why would anyone root for a team that would consider trading Hunt at this time?
The dysfunction didn't happen when Baker was here. ... well not the same dysfunction.

It would be so Cleveland to stab their fans in the back AgAiN by trading Hunt, what a complete (honey nut ->) organization.

JB is not a real @uarterback.

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by steve0255

It would appear the carryover from last year is getting worse. It's kinda ugly when a HC and player go after one another in a locker room setting. Sure sounds like some players are having an issue with the HC but hey. it could be just my imagination because I've been told my hatred makes me post these posts. 22-20 now under Stefanski's rein and never finished a year better than 3rd place in the division (just like Williams and Freddie). Might be why Garrett is lashing out but somethings not right in that locker room.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=559e9b752bfd4523b8a5bd5d9162c343

This article, by some guy that was not even present covering the game, implies that the shouting was between Garrett and Stefanski, it was not. Zac Jackson who was standing just outside the locker room. The shouting was amongst the players, which is actually not a bad thing at all, shows they still care.

The one comment Zac Jackson said he clearly heard someone in the locker room shout was, "there's no [bleeping] leadership!" He mentioned this on 92.3 with Dustin Fox and was reported by Jason Lloyd in The Athletic. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if some of that isn't directed at JJ III.

On another note, Jim Donovan was on WKNR this morning discussing the team and he said that going back to training camp he noticed too many players taking days off, standing around or riding the stationary bike. He mentioned he felt that some of the players, particularly on defense, felt as though they had arrived with all the talk (in the media) of how they were a top 5 defense. He also noted, how many of the young players never had to earn their starting jobs, but were handed the job. Donovan noted he got the sense that several players on defense carried themselves with a sense of entitlement that had not been earned. Specifically, he pointed out Greg Newsome who is yet to even record an interception in his career and one pass defended on the season.

Donovan said he would not be surprised to see the Browns go in selling mode knowing the Browns need draft capital and he surprisingly brought up the thought of Denzel Ward being an option.

He does not believe anybody will be fired during the season, but will be evaluated at the end of the season, which is likely the right call. There is nobody in the organization that will step in and turn the ST around and it is highly doubtful that promoting Jason Tarver (only person on the team with past DC experience) would get any defensive struggles to do a 180.

I expect a long rest of the season.

Hmm, too many players taking days off? I commented on that exact same thing based on how many Browns players had this past Wednesday off for a 2-4, now 2-5 Team. Hmmmmm.

Hunt is fun to watch

The Browns are not

Do Hunt a favor and trade him

The Browns haven't done crap on offense to win games

with or without Hunt

such a sad team

Originally Posted by Frenchy

on trying to trade Hunt. Meh on Greedy.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Rish, this is not an insult at all. People react differently to situations. Not saying anyone's reaction is good or bad. I have read your posts--and posts from several others--that has been so negative and full of angst the last several weeks. Everything is negative, negative, negative and the world is ending. I can't live my life that way. I would quit watching if I truly felt that this organization was as bad as you guys say they are. I am enough of a realist to recognize that there are issues, but I think most of these will be resolved. I actually see a bright future for this team. I just can't let an outside force influence my mood like some of you do. Life is short and I don't want to spend so much time feeling miserable over a freaking football team.

How many years or players away do you think this team
Is away from contending ? Be real . Cause Diam Dawg proclaimed
4 years ago this team would be in the SB. How did that prediction
Turn away.
Just because DeShawn Watson is the starter for the next 5 years
Guarantees nothing. As long as Berry is the GM, this team
Won't win a pickle

I clearly stated I wasn't bad-mouthing anyone. I was stating my opinion on how I follow a team. Not asking for your approval.

j/c:

Apparently, Nick Chubb is currently 3rd in the NFL with 4th quarter carries at 36; 1st in total yards; 1st in TDs.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/rushing/fourth-quarter/2022?sort=rushatt

j/c

Only on this board can someone twist a team going into the locker room with a 2-5 record yelling at each other as "not a bad thing". Only here can there be people who claim that a team loaded with talent having been under performing and what we thought were strengths appear to be weaknesses isn't a big issue and try to put lipstick on a pig. Only here can multiple players be speaking out blaming everything and everyone but themselves not be considered a problem with the culture. It's like one big excuse machine.

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

Apparently, Nick Chubb is currently 3rd in the NFL with 4th quarter carries at 36; 1st in total yards; 1st in TDs.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/rushing/fourth-quarter/2022?sort=rushatt

Also:

The problem is we seem to have a tendency to rapidly shift to not using him as soon as a defense starts to show that they're keying on him, and at the same time, we pull him out and put in Hunt or we go empty instead of keeping him in there for the defense to continue to focus on. At times, it almost feels like Stefanski is just waiting for the slightest sign so he can give up on it. Far too often, Chubb gets a good run or two and has the defense's full attention and then he's put on the sideline where they don't have to care about him.

Having Chubb on the field and using PA is probably the best things to keep opposing D's on their heels. Just the threat of having the best RB in the NFL on the field in and of itself leaves the running game as a threat. An empty backfield is giving away what you're going to do next. That might not be so bad if watson were in the pocket. Not so good with Brissett in the pocket.

I think it was in games last year that we got away from using Chubb more so than this year. I think it's a bit of a hold over from last year that fans might be thinking KS is not running Chubb enough - and has been pointed out, we sometimes seem to have him on the side lines during one or two crucial plays. But again - personally I think that was more last year than this.

I think Stefanski does a great job of calling plays. Nobody is perfect, and any fan is just silly to think other coaches are that much better. I think it's real easy to take every bad play or bad series and jump to conclusions. Crappy play-calling is overlooked when you win, everyone pulls out the microscope when you lose. The latest is "well look, Chubb is on the sideline, why is Chubb on the sideline??" If running Chubb every time was the solution, we'd be undefeated, right?

My complaints with the running game. Where is Hunt? He's very often that player that needs a handful of reps before he gets rolling -- he never gets a handful of reps anymore. Are we not going to use him because we're trading him? Fine. Let's see Johnson and Ford... they've combined for ZERO rushing attempts this year. And then, I'll co-sign with everything Pit said. The threat of Chubb is nearly as valuable as the player himself... Why do we have so many plays with pre-snap movement where he moves to the slot (with an empty backfield) but so few plays where the opposite happens?

PFF GRADES THROUGH 7-weeks

TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES:

___________________________________1 player performing at Elite Level 90-100
Chubb - RB - 91.1 - 2nd of 61 - Georgia - 2018
___________________________________2 players currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Bitonio - G - 89.2 - 1st of 77 - Nevada - 2014
Teller - G - 85.3 - 2nd of 77 - Virginia Tech - 2018
___________________________________5 players performing at Starter Level 84-70
Njoku - TE - 83.5 - 2nd of 72 - Miami, FL - 2017
Conklin - OT - 75.7 - 15th of 77 - Michigan St - 2016
Pocic - C - 74.8 - 3rd of 37 - LSU - 2017
Cooper - WR - 74.3 - 28th of 110 - Alabama - 2016
Brissett - QB - 73.1 - 12th of 36 - NC State - 2016
___________________________________9 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
Froholdt - G - 68.9 - NR - Arkansas - 2019
Hudson - OT - 68.8 - 35th of 77 - Cincinnati - 2021
DPJ - WR - 64.6 - 63rd of 110 - Michigan - 2020
Brown - TE - 64.0 - 24th of 72 - Oregon - 2017
Johnson - RB - 63.0 - NR - South Florida - 2019
Hunt - RB - 62.3 - 45th of 61 - Toledo - 2017
Wills - OT - 60.3 - 57th of 77 - Alabama - 2020
Woods II - WR - 60.0 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
Haeg - OT - 60.0 - NR - N Dakota St - 2016
___________________________________8 players currently performing at Replaceable Level 59-0
Forristall - TE - 59.7 - NR - Alabama - 2021
York - K - 56.3 - 33rd of 39 - LSU - 2022
Felton - WR - 56.1 - NR - UCLA - 2021
Bryant - TE - 53.5 - 59th of 72 - Florida Atlantic - 2020
Bell - WR - 50.1 - 108th of 110 - Purdue - 2022
Schwartz - WR - 49.3 - NR - Auburn - 2021
Dunn - OT - 48.2 - NR - Maryland - 2017
James - TE - 42.2 - NR - Penn St - 2015

TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADE
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Garrett - Edge - 92.1 - 1st of 112 - Texas A&M - 2017
___________________________________0 players currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
___________________________________7 players currently performing at Starter Level 84-70
Clowney - Edge - 83.2 - 15th of 112 - South Carolina - 2014
Walker - LB - 82.7 - NR (Injured, out for season) - Northwestern - 2017
Fields -- LB - 79.9 - NR - West Virginia - 2021
Bojorquez - P - 79.8 - 4th of 32 - New Mexico - 2018
Emerson - CB - 73.4 - 18th of 110 - Mississippi St - 2022
Kunaszyk - LB - 73.4 - NR - California - 2019
Takitaki - LB - 72.3 - 12th of 79 - BYU - 2019
___________________________________4 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
JOK - LB - 69.3 - 26th of 79 - Notre Dame - 2021
Newsome - CB - 64.9 - 49th of 110 - Northwestern - 2021
D. Bell - S - 64.4 - NR - West Florida Argonauts - 2022
Thomas - Edge - 62.6 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
___________________________________15 players currently performing Replaceable Level 59-0
Johnson - S - 57.8 - 64th of 87 - Boston Coll - 2017
Williams - CB - 56.9 - NR - LSU - 2019
Delpit - S - 55.0 - 71st of 87 - LSU - 2020
Bryan - DT - 53.0 - 87th of 122 - Florida - 2018
Rochell - Edge - 52.7 - 99th of 112 - Notre Dame - 2017
Harrison - S - 48.9 - NR - Alabama - 2018
Winfrey - DT - 45.6 - 104th of 122 - Oklahoma - 2022
Winovich - Edge - 42.4 - NR - Michigan - 2019
Wright - Edge - 41.9 - 110th of 112 - UAB - 2022
Ward - CB - 39.8 - 105th of 110 - Ohio St - 2018
Phillips - LB - 36.5 - 76th of 79 (injured, out for season) - LSU - 2020
Jones - LB - 36.2 - NR - LSU - 2016
Togiai - DT - 34.3 - 116th of 122 - Ohio St - 2021
Elliott - DT - 33.5 - 117th of 122 - Missouri - 2020
Green - CB - 29.0 - NR - Oklahoma St - 2020

NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum

SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play[color:#CCCCCC][/color]

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

Apparently, Nick Chubb is currently 3rd in the NFL with 4th quarter carries at 36; 1st in total yards; 1st in TDs.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/rushing/fourth-quarter/2022?sort=rushatt

Also:

We have reached the point where folks on this board are creating narratives that don't truly exist just so they can mitch and boan more.

Originally Posted by FATE

My complaints with the running game. Where is Hunt? He's very often that player that needs a handful of reps before he gets rolling -- he never gets a handful of reps anymore. Are we not going to use him because we're trading him? Fine. Let's see Johnson and Ford... they've combined for ZERO rushing attempts this year.

This.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

Apparently, Nick Chubb is currently 3rd in the NFL with 4th quarter carries at 36; 1st in total yards; 1st in TDs.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/rushing/fourth-quarter/2022?sort=rushatt

Also:

We have reached the point where folks on this board are creating narratives that don't truly exist just so they can mitch and boan more.

How often is LeBron not on the court? He doesn't have to take every single shot to be effective due to his presence. Running empty backfields with Jacoby - and with Chubb on your team - is a fire-able offense. Chubb doesn't have to get the ball to make the defense prepare for it.

These "stats" are so lacking.

Blame it on the numbers...the data tells the Browns everything they need to do.

Chris Mortensen posted something a couple years ago explaining how the Browns front office works..if something doesn't go right they blame it on "the data".

Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has played LBer...whenever a RB comes on the field and you know he's a threat everytime he touches the ball...you

want know where he is on EVERY PLAY. Best way to use Chubb to his full potential is move him around as a decoy, knowing the opponent has to account for him on
every play...

j/c...

FYI: Nick Chubb has 126 carries on the season, which ranks 3rd most in the entire NFL.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/rushing-plays

It's tempting to give him more carries, but RBs wear down. I started a thread this off-season about best RB duos in the NFL. I think it's important to have guys to split the load. It keeps guys fresher and helps reduce injuries as their bodies wear down. I also listed some of the other duos that were good. It's trending in the NFL and I have to give the Browns credit for helping to lead the way in this trend while still giving their star plenty of carries.

I have to admit I am a bit confused on this call. Some say it's on the center. However, a center is permitted to look down like that. The call on the field was that it was Dunn. The former ref said on the telecast said it was a penalty on Dunn because he was more than 2 or 3 spots away from where the defenders came into the neutral zone. However, there were players from Baltimore that made contact on the play. This place would have went nuts in the past over this call. Now, it's a different story. Anyway......watch this.

Btw---Cameron Justice said an apology was forthcoming from the NFL. However, late today, Stefanski said he has not received an adequate explanation from the league.

The explanation was exact and very clear on the broadcast. It is also clear on the slow mo in your clip. The LT or LG moves as a reaction to the Ravens encroachment - he moves before there is contact. Because he is more than 2 players away from the Raven player who encroaches - the penalty is actually on the OL.

It's a weird rule but correctly called.

Looking at it again.........Dunn doesn't even move. The guy beside him moved, but only after contact was made by the Ravens. You can cross into the neutral zone on defense, but you can't make contact. This was a terrible call in my opinion.

The call was correct, but the refs incorrectly called it on Dunn. Should have been called on Jordan Elliot who moves first before the Ravens make contact with the a Browns player and Ravens were still in the neutral zone.

Thanks. I never saw the angle where Elliot's foot moved.

milk...IMO, if you click on the "watch on youtube" link it shows the Cooper pass interference call and then the York FG attempt showing the whole line on the FG attempt..clearly you will see that the Browns movement occurred AFTER the Ravens had already moved.

Watch for yourself...click the "watch on youtube" link..

Man, that's close. I think contact was made before Elliot's foot moved. Very close.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Man, that's close. I think contact was made before Elliot's foot moved. Very close.

Yes, it is very close, but if you rewatch the video in slow motion, you can clearly see that the Browns OLine on the left side reacted to the Ravens movement.

Another point I will make...look at how the Ravens HC and entire bench react to that call/play...you can see Harbaugh yelling that the center moved the ball or something like that and the ENTIRE RAVENS BENCH yelling about what the Browns did on that play...then you see the Browns sideline and Stefanski's reaction to the same play...how can the reaction of the two benches be so different...?

Maybe it's just me, but I want a coach who is ready to "fight for every call" in an effort to win a football game...I will follow that man !! But IMO, the Browns appear to be so prim and proper in their approach to the game of football.

It seems that the Browns are so concerned about presenting an image that lacks emotion, but promotes restraint and intelligence in an effort to appear to be the smartest franchise in the NFL. This as we continue to lose games in every way imaginable..even a bad call on a FG attempt.

Crowquill may have illustrated the image that the Browns franchise presents the best in his art work this morning...Crowquill

Whether the call was right or not, we lost. We've won games this year from more blatant mistakes and missed calls including one where the refs didn't know the rules. Seems like some are still trying to deflect rather than admit we are what our record says we are. Back up QB or not.

Originally Posted by mac

milk...IMO, if you click on the "watch on youtube" link it shows the Cooper pass interference call and then the York FG attempt showing the whole line on the FG attempt..clearly you will see that the Browns movement occurred AFTER the Ravens had already moved.

Watch for yourself...click the "watch on youtube" link..

Mac, I do not disagree that the Ravens moved first. However, it's explained that, yes the Raven moved first and were in the neutral zone, which is not yet a penalty. The Browns player then false just before the Ravens players makes contact with the Browns player. Therefore, the penalty was on the Browns. Had the Ravens made contact with the Browns player before Jordan Phillips moved his leg, it would have been a penalty on the Ravens.

Mitchell Schwartz explains it as well, though, he says its on Bryant instead of correctly on Phillips who moved first.

My question is, why wasn't Bitonio in on that play? Bitonio was in on the GW kick against Carolina. If I recall, Bitonio was asked why he wasn't in on that play to block and he was not sure the reason. I could be remembering this incorrectly.

milk...my understanding of the rules...if the defense enters the neutral zone, causing an offensive lineman to move (react) it is a penalty on the defense..called encroachment on the defense...end of story..!! That is exactly what the Ravens did. Did the Ravens HC and bench reaction influence the Officials...pisses me off that the Browns HC and bench have to be prim and proper, never making a fuss even when the game is one the line.

The Browns sure are A NICE TEAM...

The Browns got screwed on that penalty call and just accepted it like OH WELL..!

The Browns yell at each other in the locker room following a tough loss and they are said to have a terrible culture instead of that they still care about the outcome of games.

The Browns don't throw a hissy fit because they probably thought the call was going to go against Baltimore and they are said to not care and be all prim and proper.

People are manufacturing things to pile on to a team they are upset w/because of the QB situation.

Originally Posted by mac

milk...my understanding of the rules...if the defense enters the neutral zone, causing an offensive lineman to move (react) it is a penalty on the defense..called encroachment on the defense...end of story..!! That is exactly what the Ravens did. Did the Ravens HC and bench reaction influence the Officials...pisses me off that the Browns HC and bench have to be prim and proper, never making a fuss even when the game is one the line.

The Browns sure are A NICE TEAM...

The Browns got screwed on that penalty call and just accepted it like OH WELL..!

The movement must be adjacent for encroachment.

First, QB hasn't got a damn thing to do with Stefanski being MILK-TOAST over the officials call...so take your QB BS and flush it..!

Ever heard it said that a team often reflects the demeanor of it's Head Coach...my experience with HCes is that there is truth to that claim. The Browns players have become an extension of Stefanski's attitude and demeanor..not all the Browns players as some still voice their opinions behind closed doors, in the locker room. But you can clearly see how the Ravens, with their Super Bowl and Division winning history react to something as minute as an off sides call.

If something doesn't change with the Browns...like someone in the organization showing some leadership qualities..like a HC or GM or maybe even the owners wife...if something doesn't change, nothing is going to change.

Yeah, having players yelling at each other in the locker room after the game is a wonderful thing!

And you don't have to worry about people piling on. You somehow manage to shovel the crap that's happening with this team much faster than people can add to the pile.

_

Originally Posted by mac

First, QB hasn't got a damn thing to do with Stefanski being MILK-TOAST over the officials call...so take your QB BS and flush it..!

Ever heard it said that a team often reflects the demeanor of it's Head Coach...my experience with HCes is that there is truth to that claim. The Browns players have become an extension of Stefanski's attitude and demeanor..not all the Browns players as some still voice their opinions behind closed doors, in the locker room. But you can clearly see how the Ravens, with their Super Bowl and Division winning history react to something as minute as an off sides call.

If something doesn't change with the Browns...like someone in the organization showing some leadership qualities..like a HC or GM or maybe even the owners wife…if something doesn't change, nothing is going to change

100% this.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Yeah, having players yelling at each other in the locker room after the game is a wonderful thing!

And you don't have to worry about people piling on. You somehow manage to shovel the crap that's happening with this team much faster than people can add to the pile.

Of course, we can't have any acknowledgement of locker room issues because that defeats the BS narrative he's been pushing for a year. You know what else has been happening for over a year, not with the undying support for a HC that is proving with each passing week that he's a below average HC.

Nobody has talked much about this so I will. For well over a year or two now, there has been a consensus that the Cleveland Browns have the best 2-headed rushing attack in football. Even with that strength, the FO and Stefanski thought it necessary to throw all morals to the wind and go after Watson. Even with the Watson suspension though, talk still abounded that the Browns were a division threat because after all, they have the best 2-headed rushing attack and OL in the NFL. Some will even say that with the brilliant offensive mind of Stefanski we should contend. so, how has that offensive juggernaut been working for the OC (I mean HC) Stefanski?

Week 7, the Browns were out rushed by BAL 160-113 a loss
Week 6, the Browns were out rushed by NEP 98-70 a loss
Week 5, the Browns were out rushed by LAC 238-213 a loss
Week 4, the Browns were out rushed by ATL 202-177 a loss
Week 3, the Browns out gained PIT by 171-104 a win
Week 2, the Browns out gained NYJ by 184-93 a loss
Week 1, the Browns out gained CAR by 217-54 a win

So far n 2022, every game the Browns have been beat at their own game, running the ball, they have lost. The best running back tandem in the NFL have been outrushed in 4 of 7 games this season and they were all losses.

To take this a little further, how have the Browns trended with this stat?

2022, 4 of 5 losses out rushed by the opponents 698 - 573
2021, 7 of 9 losses out rushed by the opponents 817 - 590
2020, 4 of 5 loses out rushed by the opponents 700 - 359
2020 playoffs, 1 of 1 loss out rushed by the opponent 123 - 112

Stefanski's career Browns record going into week 8 now sits at 20-22 including the playoffs. 16 of those 20 loses with the best running back tandem in the NFL occurred with the opponents out gaining the Browns on the ground.

This just shows that not only does Stefanski fail to adjust his offense depending on what the other team is doing, he obviously is totally uninvolved with adjustments on defense as to what the opponents are doing to his defense. This is a constant 2 1/2-year trend that is continuing to raise its ugly head in 2022 and will continue. When 80% of your losses over the last 2 1/2-years comes from the opponent beating you at your own strength, something is wrong in the throne room.

Stefanski doesn't sign players. You could be right that he supported the idea of signing watson. But you could also be wrong about that. As far as people's expectations, that's on them. After all was said and done I predicted 7 wins this year and I thought that was being optimistic. The Browns have been out rushed because the D is terrible on the interior of the DL. Not because they don't have a great running game. To back that up the Browns are ranked third in rushing yards in the NFL with 1145 rushing yards.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/stat/rushing

I'm not one who thinks Stefanski isn't without his faults. I'm also not one who tries to blame him for everything some of which is beyond his control.

Quote

Stefanski's career Browns record going into week 8 now sits at 20-22 including the playoffs. 16 of those 20 loses with the best running back tandem in the NFL occurred with the opponents out gaining the Browns on the ground.

This just shows that not only does Stefanski fail to adjust his offense depending on what the other team is doing, he obviously is totally uninvolved with adjustments on defense as to what the opponents are doing to his defense. This is a constant 2 1/2-year trend that is continuing to raise its ugly head in 2022 and will continue. When 80% of your losses over the last 2 1/2-years comes from the opponent beating you at your own strength, something is wrong in the throne room.

Steve...I sure can't disagree with your take above...get this..Stefanski played DB at Penn, named FRESHMAN OF THE YEAR...yet he shows absolutely little to no interest in the Browns defense...and one of the main issues with the Browns defense...THE DEFENSIVE BACKFIELD.

Stefanski wants to be and IS the Browns Offensive Coordinator...after spending ONLY 1 yr as OC for the Vikings. It's time for Browns fans to face up to the fact, the Browns have not had a qualified HC for years and the one we have now is on OJT.

Stefanski doesn't know how to be a Head Coach in the NFL and is learning how to be an Offensive Coordinator.

When I saw LA outrush us WITH EASE … I knew we weren’t long for the season. That was pathetic and I knew NE would follow suit.

Have we elevated a TE off the practice squad? Cuz NJoku and brown were hurt Sunday.

Originally Posted by mac

milk...my understanding of the rules...if the defense enters the neutral zone, causing an offensive lineman to move (react) it is a penalty on the defense..called encroachment on the defense...end of story..!! That is exactly what the Ravens did. Did the Ravens HC and bench reaction influence the Officials...pisses me off that the Browns HC and bench have to be prim and proper, never making a fuss even when the game is one the line.

The Browns sure are A NICE TEAM...

The Browns got screwed on that penalty call and just accepted it like OH WELL..!

So you would feel better if the coach was to rant and rave? You know that wouldn't have changed anything, right?

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

The Browns yell at each other in the locker room following a tough loss and they are said to have a terrible culture instead of that they still care about the outcome of games.

The Browns don't throw a hissy fit because they probably thought the call was going to go against Baltimore and they are said to not care and be all prim and proper.

People are manufacturing things to pile on to a team they are upset w/because of the QB situation.

First of all, what you say is happening isn't what really is happening in that locker room. There have been no less than 4 players that have gone public about issues in that locker room. You my friend, spent months berating another player for doing that and to be fair, you have singled out JJIII this time. What this does have is an issue on the team that was called out last year and now is festering to the point where numerous players are calling it out. Just as you made assumptions that the person involved last year was tearing apart the locker room, it is still happening but now it's at least 4-fold. As much as you want to try and convince the other posters here that this is a conspiracy because of an ill felt QB situation, it's actually something that started last year and has continued to grow under the watch of your "can do no wrong" HC Stefanski. When players start going public it usually means there's no leadership being exhibited, and they fell they have no choice. It could have been addressed last year but instead the player was chastised. Now it has grown to numerous players publicly complaining with no end in sight. Hell, one of the players is Cooper who wasn't even here last year. Face it, Stefanski has lost the locker room and that's not a good sign for this team. LOL- but you just keep blaming it on the guy you continually display your hatred for on a daily basis. News Flash: he's not on the team anymore!

Originally Posted by Ballpeen

Originally Posted by mac

milk...my understanding of the rules...if the defense enters the neutral zone, causing an offensive lineman to move (react) it is a penalty on the defense..called encroachment on the defense...end of story..!! That is exactly what the Ravens did. Did the Ravens HC and bench reaction influence the Officials...pisses me off that the Browns HC and bench have to be prim and proper, never making a fuss even when the game is one the line.

The Browns sure are A NICE TEAM...

The Browns got screwed on that penalty call and just accepted it like OH WELL..!

So you would feel better if the coach was to rant and rave? You know that wouldn't have changed anything, right?

When a coach fights for a call, they know the chances are slim that the call will be overturned...the point of showing some emotion on a flag that clearly could have and imo, should have gone the Browns way...the fuss raised might help influence the next call. Why do you believe Harbaugh argues penalty flags at every opportunity...he knows if doesn't get this call...he might be able to influence a future call...and it sure seems that Harbaugh gets more than a fair shake when it comes.

Secondly, the HC can utilize a close call such as Stefanski was facing to send a message to his own players that the Browns are going to fight for every call. This HC is asking for a max effort from his players...but won't even fight for a close call that did influence whether the Browns won the game.

How do you believe the Browns players viewed Stefanski's reaction to the Ravens off sides..?

Utilizing psychology...some coaches know how to use it to their advantage..some don't...the Browns are A NICE TEAM.

One of the issues I see is that, if a player isn't performing
Up to expected standards, he has no fear of being benched
Or getting his snaps reduced. The players have no.fear
Of Stefanski doing that.
Stefanski is good at X's and O's, but is not a coach to
Put players in their place. It's Just not in his DNA.
This team is very reminiscent of past Browns teams
Very soft and lacking fire

j/c...

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

I can't Like this enough.

You'll like this part even more!

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Browns are giving their long snapper a $865,000 signing bonus.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1586038190972211200

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

I noticed the same thing. Frustration, disappointment and angriness over the way we lose will do that.

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

There's not much to talk about.
In years past, when we'd hit this point in a failed season, we'd shift to talking about what needs to be fixed, what players we should get, etc.... but, here we are with a nearly stacked roster and we're still seeing the exact same ineptness we've seen for over two decades.

Interesting opinion piece:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=150b1231d1ea4d86ab61800041abcbfe

Two LBs and Cortez Broughton -- a 6'2" / 293lb Defensive Tackle. 2019 7th round pick by the Chargers, later signed by Chiefs. 12 games over three seasons: 1 tackle / 1 pass defended.

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

888...just another WASTED YEAR, filled with promises and failures.

IMO, the coaching staff didn't work hard enough to teach football in the offseason and preseason and that led to giving games away that the Browns should have won.

I'm not sure that the Browns players believe in this coaching staff after losing games we should have won. That is also a real turn off for the fans who recognize a mess when they see one.

In terms of the board inactivity … also to remember: we have no draft interest either, so that sucks too.

It feels like just another wasted year of our lives w/the Browns

Or it could just be a heavy dose of karma.

Not dismissing the opinions of others or yourself, but I think the constant negativity by several posters is a turn-off for most people. I also think that the constant attacks by the Baker Mayfield fan base on others who try to be objective deters others from posting.

If only you were actually being objective that would certainly help.

jck..

Someone should be paying rent for occupying that space...

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

There's not much to talk about.
In years past, when we'd hit this point in a failed season, we'd shift to talking about what needs to be fixed, what players we should get, etc.... but, here we are with a nearly stacked roster and we're still seeing the exact same ineptness we've seen for over two decades.

....which leaves us dumbfounded or certainly dispirited, hence a lack of enthusiasm leading to lower participation. Just my take...

Can we expect Jacoby Brisset to win the Bengal game with his outstanding @uarterback play.

I do. (No mas give him a pass.)

............

The boogeyman is real and inhabits the forests of North America.

Originally Posted by Milk Man

The call was correct, but the refs incorrectly called it on Dunn. Should have been called on Jordan Elliot who moves first before the Ravens make contact with the a Browns player and Ravens were still in the neutral zone.

Who carez about the call when everybody knowz, everybody knowz
the refz got in the huddle,
they said "it's Cleveland"
It'z Cleveland???
Yep, it'z Cleveland. Well we have to make the call go against Cleveland.
against Cleveland??
Ya
it's Cleveland. OIC. ... false start, got to make sure the right team, (the bad guys) win. because Only In Cleveland.

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

There's not much to talk about.
In years past, when we'd hit this point in a failed season, we'd shift to talking about what needs to be fixed, what players we should get, etc.... but, here we are with a nearly stacked roster and we're still seeing the exact same ineptness we've seen for over two decades.

I think the roster is a lot less stacked than when the Browns beat the Cowboys in 2020.

Originally Posted by mac

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

888...just another WASTED YEAR, filled with promises and failures.

IMO, the coaching staff didn't work hard enough to teach football in the offseason and preseason and that led to giving games away that the Browns should have won.

I'm not sure that the Browns players believe in this coaching staff after losing games we should have won. That is also a real turn off for the fans who recognize a mess when they see one.

This could not be more true.

Originally Posted by mgh888

I's it me or is activity on the board at an all time low for this point in a season?

For me, this season finally broke me. The Jets game finally broke me.

You could give the Browns a HOF player in their prime at every position and they would find a way to screw it up. That's just the way it is.

So I ask myself...what's the point?

Trading away Rashard Higginz and Baker Mayfield for Jacoby (inconceivable) Brizzett and Anthony Schwartz and 3 first round draft pickz and 230 million dollarz ----> (the inflated bag of doritoz price),
and Rishuz finally asks what iz the point?

Analyze that .

Originally Posted by THROW LONG

Trading away Rashard Higginz and Baker Mayfield for Jacoby (inconceivable) Brizzett and Anthony Schwartz and 3 first round draft pickz and 230 million dollarz ----> (the inflated bag of doritoz price),
and Rishuz finally asks what iz the point?

Analyze that .

Well, going into tonight's game, the Browns will be giving the Texans the #7 pick so far in the 2023 first round for the Watson trade. Just saying.........

I don’t think us not having Higgins is the reason we stink haha. We’ve stunk my entire life.

I don't think allowing Higgens to walk and trading Baker has anything to do w/our struggles. Hell, it's addition by subtraction. Both are sucking the joint up in Carolina. I don't think Higgins even has a catch this year and Baker is/was the worst starting qb in the league. A dude named PJ Walker, or something like that, has moved ahead of him.

Talk about derailing a post as we get to see the Baker hatred spewed all over every topic by him. Funny, the Browns sucking has nothing to do with the former QB but Vers is still trying to make it relevant.

Quote

Trading away Rashard Higginz and Baker Mayfield for Jacoby

This is a false statement.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Quote

Trading away Rashard Higginz and Baker Mayfield for Jacoby

This is a false statement.

No one can possibly know what would be if Baker & Higgins & Landry were still here...could be the same...better...or worse. No one knows.

j/c...

Drat.

PFF GRADES THROUGH 8-weeks

TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES:
___________________________________2 players currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Bitonio - G - 91.3 - 1st of 81 - Nevada - 2014
Chubb - RB - 91.1 - 2nd of 56 - Georgia - 2018
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
Teller - G - 85.3 - 3rd of 81 - Virginia Tech - 2018
___________________________________6 players performing at Starter Level 84-70
Njoku - TE - 83.5 - 3rd of 69 - Miami, FL - 2017
Pocic - C - 82.6 - 2nd of 37 - LSU - 2017
Brissett - QB - 77.5 - 8th of 38 - NC State - 2016
Cooper - WR - 74.9 - 25th of 113 - Alabama - 2016
Conklin - OT - 74.2 - 17th of 78 - Michigan St - 2016
Hudson - OT - 70.1 - 26th of 78 - Cincinnati - 2021
___________________________________10 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
Johnson - RB - 68.5 - NR - South Florida - 2019
Froholdt - G - 68.4 - 18th of 81 - Arkansas - 2019
DPJ - WR - 66.5 - 58th of 113 - Michigan - 2020
Wills - OT - 65.8 - 43rd of 78 - Alabama - 2020
Hunt - RB - 62.1 - 44th of 56 - Toledo - 2017
Brown - TE - 61.5 - 30th of 69 - Oregon - 2017
Dunn - OT - 61.1 - NR - Maryland - 2017
York - K - 61.0 - 30th of 40 - LSU - 2022
Haeg - OT - 60.0 - NR - N Dakota St - 2016
Forbes - OG - 60.0 - NR - SE Missouri St - 2019
___________________________________7 players currently performing at Replaceable Level 59-0
Forristall - TE - 59.9 - NR - Alabama - 2021
Woods II - WR - 59.2 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
Felton - WR - 56.1 - NR - UCLA - 2021
Bell - WR - 53.6 - 106th of 113 - Purdue - 2022
Bryant - TE - 53.1 - 61st of 69 - Florida Atlantic - 2020
Schwartz - WR - 49.3 - NR - Auburn - 2021
James - TE - 42.2 - NR - Penn St - 2015

TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADE
___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100
Garrett - Edge - 92.9 - 1st of 117 - Texas A&M - 2017
___________________________________0 players currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85
___________________________________7 players currently performing at Starter Level 84-70
Walker - LB - 82.7 - NR (Injured, out for season) - Northwestern - 2017
Fields -- LB - 82.0 - NR - West Virginia - 2021
Takitaki - LB - 78.5 - 6th of 80 - BYU - 2019
Clowney - Edge - 76.2 - 25th of 117 - South Carolina - 2014
Emerson - CB - 76.2 - 17th of 110 - Mississippi St - 2022
Bojorquez - P - 75.7 - 9th of 32 - New Mexico - 2018
Kunaszyk - LB - 70.2 - NR - California - 2019
___________________________________4 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60
JOK - LB - 69.3 - 24th of 80 - Notre Dame - 2021
Newsome - CB - 66.3 - 42nd of 110 - Northwestern - 2021
Thomas - Edge - 64.8 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022
D. Bell - S - 64.4 - NR - West Florida Argonauts - 2022
___________________________________15 players currently performing Replaceable Level 59-0
Johnson - S - 59.2 - 62nd of 87 - Boston Coll - 2017
Williams - CB - 56.6 - NR - LSU - 2019
Delpit - S - 56.6 - 66th of 87 - LSU - 2020
Bryan - DT - 53.2 - 87th of 126 - Florida - 2018
Rochell - Edge - 52.9 - 102nd of 117 - Notre Dame - 2017
Harrison - S - 50.9 - NR - Alabama - 2018
Jones - LB - 47.5 - NR - LSU - 2016
Green - CB - 46.5 - NR - Oklahoma St - 2020
Winfrey - DT - 45.6 - 103rd of 126 - Oklahoma - 2022
Winovich - Edge - 42.4 - NR - Michigan - 2019
Ward - CB - 39.8 - 105th of 110 - Ohio St - 2018
Wright - Edge - 39.2 - 116th of 117 - UAB - 2022
Phillips - LB - 36.7 - 77th of 80 (injured, out for season) - LSU - 2020
Togiai - DT - 36.4 - 117th of 126 - Ohio St - 2021
Elliott - DT - 33.6 - 120th of 126 - Missouri - 2020

NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum

SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play

Originally Posted by Milk Man

j/c...

Drat.

There is a chance that Walker and Darnold totally suck or get injured moving forward and Baker regains the starting job. Think positive!!!

Lol! Twist the knife....

I doubt it unless that injury happens.

That isn't so much to comment on Baker. With a new coach in house and the team trading off established stars, it's pretty clear the Panthers are in rebuild mode. They will probably stick with the young guy. They will probably be picking near the top in a top heavy QB class this next draft.

Baker is at that crossroads many QB's have faced. He may latch on somewhere and regain starter status, but more probably he is headed towards one of those upper level back-up roles much like Fitzpatrick. A guy who bounces from team to team and starts a lot but is never quite the guy to get past that 2 year deal.

Originally Posted by Ballpeen

I doubt it unless that injury happens.

That isn't so much to comment on Baker. With a new coach in house and the team trading off established stars, it's pretty clear the Panthers are in rebuild mode. They will probably stick with the young guy. They will probably be picking near the top in a top heavy QB class this next draft.

Baker is at that crossroads many QB's have faced. He may latch on somewhere and regain starter status, but more probably he is headed towards one of those upper level back-up roles much like Fitzpatrick. A guy who bounces from team to team and starts a lot but is never quite the guy to get past that 2 year deal.

I can agree with this if his reputation can be repaired at all. I think there is a chance he won't play or catch on anywhere. I think he'll play again, but I don't have a clue what that will look like.

That too, but for the most part reputations can always be repaired. Mostly, it just takes some time if the effort is there.

I think Baker is a decent QB. Now that he is removed from Cleveland and the #1 overall tag he should be able to settle in to some role now that some of the expectations have been removed. This year in Carolina was the time needed for that to happen.

Baker isn’t a Brown, he’s a backup and not decent. He’s gone like Elvis. Loved him long time, but he’s just too.... limited.

Originally Posted by lampdogg

Baker isn’t a Brown, he’s a backup and not decent. He’s gone like Elvis. Loved him long time, but he’s just too.... limited.

What do you mean like Elvis? I saw him in a Walmart a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Ballpeen

Originally Posted by lampdogg

Baker isn’t a Brown, he’s a backup and not decent. He’s gone like Elvis. Loved him long time, but he’s just too.... limited.

What do you mean like Elvis? I saw him in a Walmart a few weeks ago.

At least it wasn't a Cheesecake Factory.

I just can’t get over how bad our DTs are lol

j/c...

Then, there is this...

It was Berry's worst performance in my opinion. Nothing was believable. I was also disappointed in the media. How about asking the question "what is a successful season?"

Berry acted like we are exactly where we are supposed to be at 3-5.

The only thing I believed him on was his unequivocal support of Stefanski. Much to my chagrin.

j/c:

A day of celebration and reflection.

The city should turn that into a work and school holiday. That would be hilarious.

I may or may not have tweeted this idea to our mayor earlier.

Wasn't that the pick that became Chubb too?

Not sure. We had two that year. The first one was Corbett and the second, Chubb.

. Duped!

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Wasn't that the pick that became Chubb too?

Not sure which pick was offered for that bum, but the Chubb pick was from the Brock Osweiler trade.

Originally Posted by FATE

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Wasn't that the pick that became Chubb too?

Not sure which pick was offered for that bum, but the Chubb pick was from the Brock Osweiler trade.

Another great day in Browns' history.

So Andrew Berry used one game to help influence his trade deadline decisions. Wow, just wow!

j/c:

Aaaahhhh Hue Jackson, the guy who was given the players he asked for then when they didn't pan out went crying to Jimmy that the reason why we were losing was because mean old Sashi wouldn't give him the guys he wanted. One of the World's greatest con men.

That's true if you are talking about an OC. I'm certainly not on the fire Stefanski bandwagon as though it appears many are. But when you watch a team play like the Browns did for the first seven weeks and then witness their true potential in a game in which they performed far superior to any other game they played this year, one has to wonder what the hell was going on.

I know, I know. It's not like they were getting blown out in all but one of those first seven games. But let's also not pretend they were playing up to the level they did against the Bengals.

Originally Posted by Rishuz

It was Berry's worst performance in my opinion. Nothing was believable. I was also disappointed in the media. How about asking the question "what is a successful season?"

Berry acted like we are exactly where we are supposed to be at 3-5.

The only thing I believed him on was his unequivocal support of Stefanski. Much to my chagrin.

Between he and Stefanski, they barely say anything of note. I always admire his conscious emphasis on using positive language during his press conferences. Dale Carnegie courses were definitely taken!

Media: "Are you satisfied with where you're at in the season"
Berry: "We are approaching the situation knowing that we have nine more opportunities to get to where want to be as a team."

He and Stefanski absolutely love using the word 'opportunity' as often as possible. We don't have upcoming games, we have upcoming opportunities. Always projecting enthusiasm and a positive mindset!

Berry said the same thing last year as the wheels were coming off with Mayfield and discussed what a valuable opportunity those last five games were to grow as an organization.

Andrew Berry is amazingly consistent in his messaging during press conferences. Very boiler plate, just change the player names.

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

From Berry's press conference on 12/1/21. It's like a carbon copy.

On if decreasing Stefanski’s responsibility on offense could help Stefanski oversee the total operation of the team better and potentially decrease pre-snap penalties:

“No, I do not think it is a function of that. I think we have seen enough evidence over time that Kevin can manage everything on his plate. I think it really starts with accountability for every man that is on the team. Look, I have a ton of confidence that is something that we will get fixed moving forward.”

https://browns.1rmg.com/transcripts...nd-general-manager-andrew-berry-12-1-21/

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

That's true if you are talking about an OC. I'm certainly not on the fire Stefanski bandwagon as though it appears many are. But when you watch a team play like the Browns did for the first seven weeks and then witness their true potential in a game in which they performed far superior to any other game they played this year, one has to wonder what the hell was going on.

I know, I know. It's not like they were getting blown out in all but one of those first seven games. But let's also not pretend they were playing up to the level they did against the Bengals.

It can be spread around, but i put that mostly on the players. The scheme had us close. Players are the ones leaving wide receivers wide open.

I am no X's nd O's guy, but I can promise you that wasn't how things were drawn up in the training room.

I certainly agree with you there. But they certainly seemed to perform better with players that weren't being played in most of the games to any extent. I also saw a fire underneath the players I hadn't seen before in the season. I certainly fault the players for some of that but not all of that. I do believe that being a really good NFL HC requires more than just the x's and the o's.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I certainly agree with you there. But they certainly seemed to perform better with players that weren't being played in most of the games to any extent. I also saw a fire underneath the players I hadn't seen before in the season. I certainly fault the players for some of that but not all of that. I do believe that being a really good NFL HC requires more than just the x's and the o's.

I mentioned it in another thread, but Nathan Zegura was talking about players openly commenting how much improved the communication has been since JJ III has been wearing the green dot and how JJ III has put an emphasis on explaining all the details in order to avoid mental.mistakes. There was a change when he took over last year. Not sure why they even went back, especially considering JJ III typically never comes off the field. Maybe that's oversimplifying an issue, but the evidence is there and it was last year. Good question for someone to ask Joe Woods.

I saw that and appreciate the information you post. I guess all I can say about that is that if communication was such a huge issue it should have been addressed and corrected before week 8.

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

I must be missing something......What's wild about what Berry said about Stefanski?

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I saw that and appreciate the information you post. I guess all I can say about that is that if communication was such a huge issue it should have been addressed and corrected before week 8.

Part of the issue is they don't do anything in training camp. They stretch and take mental reps.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

I must be missing something......What's wild about what Berry said about Stefanski?

I don't think she's saying his statement was "wild". I think she's stating that the fact that he has to openly endorse Stefanski's management of an efficient offense with a back-up QB is wild, as in "bizarre".

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I certainly agree with you there. But they certainly seemed to perform better with players that weren't being played in most of the games to any extent. I also saw a fire underneath the players I hadn't seen before in the season. I certainly fault the players for some of that but not all of that. I do believe that being a really good NFL HC requires more than just the x's and the o's.

I mentioned it in another thread, but Nathan Zegura was talking about players openly commenting how much improved the communication has been since JJ III has been wearing the green dot and how JJ III has put an emphasis on explaining all the details in order to avoid mental.mistakes. There was a change when he took over last year. Not sure why they even went back, especially considering JJ III typically never comes off the field. Maybe that's oversimplifying an issue, but the evidence is there and it was last year. Good question for someone to ask Joe Woods.

Kinda hard to "see" anything when you don't watch 6 out of 8 games.

Didn't Phillips wear the green dot after Walker went down and only the last 2 games did JJ III wear it?

If so, there's the problem.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

So Andrew Berry used one game to help influence his trade deadline decisions. Wow, just wow!

I think that statement is being a bit blown out of proportion... He said it "moved the needle". Then look at the game itself, a game in which many expected us to get our doors blown off was turned inside out. An offense that was boat-racing defenses was stifled. What really moved the needle was in your following post, imo.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I certainly agree with you there. But they certainly seemed to perform better with players that weren't being played in most of the games to any extent. I also saw a fire underneath the players I hadn't seen before in the season. I certainly fault the players for some of that but not all of that. I do believe that being a really good NFL HC requires more than just the x's and the o's.

If they suspect certain players to be an issue, and "next man up" rises to the occasion, that would probably influence some trade-deadline decisions.

Another dark-horse opinion, one I share, is that other teams will not be playing nice with us for a while longer since Jimmy reset the guaranteed salary scale. So we'll be paying an a$$hole tax on trades for a little while.

I don't know if it is a problem or not, but I think you are correct. Not 100 percent sure, but that was my understanding of the green dot thing.

Originally Posted by Hammer

Didn't Phillips wear the green dot after Walker went down and only the last 2 games did JJ III wear it?

If so, there's the problem.

Phillips doesn't belong on an NFL field let alone wearing the green dot. His injury while, unfortunate for him, was likely a blessing for the defense, as harsh as that sounds.

That is crazy to me. He started at a big time college program that won a national championship. How can he be that bad?

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I saw that and appreciate the information you post. I guess all I can say about that is that if communication was such a huge issue it should have been addressed and corrected before week 8.

Part of the issue is they don't do anything in training camp. They stretch and take mental reps.

I have no idea what that has to do with communication on the field. As a matter of fact it has nothing to do with communication on the field because communication isn't a physical thing that can be addressed by contact in practice. It is actually a mental rep thing.

Originally Posted by FATE

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

I must be missing something......What's wild about what Berry said about Stefanski?

I don't think she's saying his statement was "wild". I think she's stating that the fact that he has to openly endorse Stefanski's management of an efficient offense with a back-up QB is wild, as in "bizarre".

Correct. What Cory is implying, is that it is amazing the media is asking Berry if Stefnaski should be questioned about his playcalling when the offense is performing at such a high level.

Lol, "she."

[Linked Image from i.makeagif.com]

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Kinda hard to "see" anything when you don't watch 6 out of 8 games.

That's why God invented sports bars. Look it up.

Got it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Originally Posted by Rishuz

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

I saw that and appreciate the information you post. I guess all I can say about that is that if communication was such a huge issue it should have been addressed and corrected before week 8.

Part of the issue is they don't do anything in training camp. They stretch and take mental reps.

I have no idea what that has to do with communication on the field. As a matter of fact it has nothing to do with communication on the field because communication isn't a physical thing that can be addressed by contact in practice. It is actually a mental rep thing.

I'm assuming about 10 minutes before game 1 someone reminded Stefanski they needed to choose someone to wear the green dot.

You know what assuming makes someone.

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by FATE

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

I must be missing something......What's wild about what Berry said about Stefanski?

I don't think she's saying his statement was "wild". I think she's stating that the fact that he has to openly endorse Stefanski's management of an efficient offense with a back-up QB is wild, as in "bizarre".

Correct. What Cory is implying, is that it is amazing the media is asking Berry if Stefnaski should be questioned about his playcalling when the offense is performing at such a high level.

Lol, "she."

[Linked Image from i.makeagif.com]

My B. Small profile pic looked like a chick.

Originally Posted by FATE

My B. Small profile pic looked like a chick.

Dead ringer for Stef from The Goonies.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Originally Posted by Milk Man

Originally Posted by FATE

My B. Small profile pic looked like a chick.

Dead ringer for Stef from The Goonies.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Thanks for the java'd keyboard, jack@ss.

It's Stef... "all growed up".

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

j/c:

I must be missing something......What's wild about what Berry said about Stefanski?

I can't be positive about this, but I think the OP needed to use more words, if clarity was desired.

I interpreted it thus:
"It's wild that we live in a world where Andrew Berry feels the need to justify his support of a playcaller who's running the 6th most efficient O in the league... with a backup QB, no less...."

But it's Twitter... not War & Peace. He took shortcuts that opened the door for ambiguity.
My 7th grade English/8th grade Composition teacher June Short was right: words matter... and there exists a correct number of them for every efficient sentence.

jmho

The only thing falze about it is that it wasn't a by the NFL trade of player for player, (or pick) (by that definition of trade)
but, the fact is in 2020, in the playoff year, Baker to Higgins waz a thing the Brownz had,
and they've replaced it, with J.Brisset and (one of hiz optionz) is now Anthony Schwartz,
so totally a true statement, and a downgrade in many ways imo.

I read the post as being facetious because it was so ridiculous. Then, I started thinking about some of the other Twitter posts I have seen from that individual and from Fred Greetham and I started to wonder because both have been so unfairly negative at times in regards to Stefanski. Thus, I was a bit confused. I'm glad that it wasn't yet another slam.

I'm going to say something that most of you won't agree with because this place is full of parrots. The same stuff is repeated over and over and often lacks substance. I think Stefanski is one of the very best coaches in the entire NFL. He reminds me a lot of Shanny. Clem, if you remember.......I was about the only dude who supported Shanny when all that crap went down w/Farmer. These guys are so similar in how they understand offense. Superior schemers. Great play callers who use building blocks to hit big plays.

Stefanski actually got Baker to have a decent year. He is the coach that is making Jacoby looking good. Think about that. He ran 7 offensive linemen a lot against the Bengals to take advantage of our physical dominance. His scheme is so freaking advanced. Second only to Shanny. Wide outside zone blocking schemes. Use of play action. It's annoying to read all the BS negative comments about him.

Dude can coach!!!!

No doubt in my mind!

And with his superior coaching, we are? 3-5. If that's superior coaching, I want in on that job.

I am a big fan of this FO and Stefanski.

I see a lot of what they are doing through transactions and I understand their reasoning. How I interpret it might not be what they're actually trying to do, but it does make sense to me.

As for Stef, I agree with what you are saying. Especially our offense. I would talk more about it, but we are at page 10 in this thread.

And yet with all his so-called superiority, the items of substance tell a different story. He is barely over .500 in his career with the Browns - has had a continued problem with numerous players going public with their concerns about the team - ongoing locker room and leadership issues - and has never had the Browns place better than 3rd place in the division. Strange that the FO would feel the need to even mention Stefanski's play calling unless there really is an issue - Hmmmmm.

Quote

Strange that the FO would feel the need to even mention Stefanski's play calling unless there really is an issue - Hmmmmm.

Lolz.

Ive yet to watch the PC. I don’t get much into them honestly because they’re all vanilla. I would love to give AB some truth serum and ask him about our defense, particularly Ward