Our defense should be embarrassed

Our playcalling was really questionable IMO

They took away our screen game and it destroyed us … props to them

Wasted opportunity for a w, but I knew we were up against it.

That sucks

defense.....defense completely choked in the 2nd half. no guts. nobody dug deep. nobody played well.

fire joe woods.

look at the rushing total for the falcons in the 2nd half.

over 165 yards in the 2nd half. the defense couldn't stop a nose bleed.

I'm not a smart man, but I do know that 3pts KS passed up in the 1st qtr would've been helpful

ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE play calling the last series. RUN THE BALL!

They beat us at our own game.

the game was tied at half. and we had a 3 point lead, but the defense just got ran on after we we scored. i cant be mad at what happened in the 1st quarter when all the choking came in the 4th.

14 straight successful running plays to essentially close out the game. Inexcusable and unacceptable. Someone needs to be held accountable and it starts with Stefanski. The are no excuses why this team isn’t 4-0. Brissett has proven he can’t close out. Hence the backup designation. No real blame there.

At some point, Stefanski has to take ownership of his bad play calls. Second, we went into the seaon, weak at DT, and it shows!!.. Call Suh now or we will have this problem all season. Also, our tackling was horrible all game.

yea JB showed why he's a backup unfortunately. i dont care who is covering Cooper, you give your best receiver targets. He just didnt look Coopers way all game.

Doh.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by JB’s play but we brought him in to not make mistakes. He took a sack and then threw the int when he absolutely couldn’t. That’s two game ending ints in a row.

That said, as the game was on the line and we only needed a few yards to get within Yorks’ distance, RUN THE DAMN BALL!

Stephanski is a poor play caller ... but he will get yet another pass this year because of the Watson fiasco
Joe Woods defense is too soft
This team is poorly coached and situationally ill-prepared
This team will be too far gone to make the playoffs even if Watson goes 6-0 when he comes back
Haslam is going to have a tough decision at years end regarding this coaching staff. If it were me I would tell Stephanski, give up play calling or there's the door.

I think we saw the real Jacoby Brissett ... it was a tale of two halves today.

Simply put, this is not the right staff and FO, the sooner we get rid of it, the sooner we can try to get the right ones. Other teams have proved you don’t need 3 years. Only coach on this staff I would keep is Callahan.

regardless, competent coaching has us at 4-0

I think we saw the real Kevin stefanski offense today, and it = choke 4 weeks in a row.
with a 58 yard field goal Heimlich,
and a pittspuke stunk even worse Heimlich the other week.
No Heimlich today.

Offense only got 3 points on 4 out of I2 drives.
It's always the offenses fault always (almost)

AFTER FOUR YEARs WHYYYYY ARE THEY sTILL GOING TO Harrison BRYANT IN CRITICAL sITUATIONs?

H Bryant, 3 touches two more attempts all but one = negative outcome.

Look I will say that the last series was not the best by #7... but the Stefanski screens did not help. And the D allowed the Falcons to run down their throat!!.. Playing d is about desire.. Our D showed it had no fire!!... and why not tell Brissett that we are going to use 2 plays via the headset

Stefanski blew 10 points in 1st half.This loss is on his head.

Head Coach not learning from the past
Owner not learning from the past.

The Offense having the negative drives goes back to 2020, every overtime first drive of overtime in any game in 2020
the drive was negative.

The offense being coached like not up to par, goes back to the playoff win year of 2020.
and you can see it.

The offense haz been a letdown for 25 yearz, 35 maybe.

They killed us when they figured out they could run the ball on us, at will. Ugh!

I am TIRED of Watching NICK CHUBB stand on the sideline especially in crunch time or in the Red Zone ... I am afraid Stafanski won't be here next year he waste talent and Watson is coming This FO will want a more open offense. Chubb rushed for 6.2 YPC and we throw on second and goal at the one ... smh

Thix head coach, over 30 gamez way too many timez goex to Harrizon Bryant in crunch time playz.
What did Harrizon Bryant do today?

Stefanski lost to Arthur Smith, who coaches a team expected to be a bottom 5 team. Let me repeat that. Stefanski lost to Arthur Smith. Completely outcoached.

The Browns are an average team with an average coaching staff.

I like Stefanski. I really do. I don't want to start over at head coach. But he's responsible for the whole operation. It's not working on the defensive side of the ball. He's responsible for it all. This was the easy part of the schedule. We should have been 4-0, no less than 3-1. If you have to force him to make a change on the defensive side of the ball, then do it.

The Browns are average in every way except rushing offense. It is what it is.

Btw, Vers, this is why I struggle to be positive.

Once again there is a WIDE OPEN WR in our secondary in crunch time JOE WOODS !!!

Only a few yards to get into field goal range with plently of time. RUN THE DAMN BALL!

Stephanski going for it instead of taking points, and passing on the one yard line. The coach lost this game

j/c...

- This loss falls squarely on the coaches. Stefanski was exceptionally bad today.

- Not taking the early three points came back to bite them. Poor decision making when your playing short staffed on defense. Take all the points you can get.

- Browns were running the ball down Atlanta's throat so naturally Stefanski abandons that and gets pass happy. Arthur Smith was smart enough to stick with what worked.

- Joe Woods' defense got absolutely gashed by practice squad players. Embarrassing.

- Hard to believe how bad that game plan was after having ten days to prepare for this game.

- Brissett came back down to Earth today. Chucking balls all over the place. Took a sack when you absolutely cannot take a sack. Tosses game ending INT.

- For three years now the two minute offense is painfully bad.

- Browns got the ball back on the final drive and Stefanski is calling plays like there is 30 seconds left on the clock.

- The offense in goal-to-goal situations was offensive to watch.

- The Browns offense left a lot of points on the field today.

- A 2-2 record with this gifted cupcake schedule to open the season is really disappointing.

- Game ball to Nick Chubb for another great game and hilariously having his family up in the nosebleeds.

There may be rough waters ahead with the upcoming schedule.

j/c:

Brissett's game today helped towards regressing to his mean performance.
Not having Garrett or Clowney on the DL clearly showed.
Joe Woods is still not impressing me after a few years.
Thought Jedrick Wills had a really nice game in the highlighted plays I saw.
Thought JOK had a really nice game in the highlighted plays I saw.
Thought Delpit had a really nice game in the highlighted plays I saw.
Expecting to be a clear underdog at home vs. the Chargers

This roster was a bit over rated in the typical Schedule game
Played. This was not a 4-0 or 3-1 team as predicted by
Many. 2-2 is what this team is.
Did JOK make any plays today. ? He is very over rated
Atlanta oline was pimp slapping the Browns dline when
It had too. The defense is a bunch of names but it's soft
As a unit

Joe Woods' defense gave up 13 points in the 4th quarter. That's 50 points now given up in the 4th quarter through 4 games.

THIS

Stefanski is always owning and learning.

When will he have learned?

We are still in first place.

Steelers are in last place.

Another weekend another beer won't cure these blues!

GET IT RIGHT COACH OR GET OUT!!!

Says it all....

Sinks in after the twelfth lesson!

On the Deep pass to DPJ that ended up at the 2 yard line - I thought 'Man - maybe Brissett is really this good' ... it went down hill from there.

Defensive woes continued - MG and Clowney out really hurt both run and pass D. But it goes beyond that. I've been down on Woods for a long time - there have been games when we shut good teams down, but overall I'd say we have a body of work that shows us losing out to bad teams much more frequently.

Stefanski didn't manage the game very well - and once again in a game where the run game was working, working, working, he went pass happy. 🤮

Better have a bounce back game and put it all together next week.

Ward mentions in his presser about the communication again

Seems someone needs to stand up and take ownership of being a communicator and get the squad on the same page


I don't understand why there isn't more Chubb and Hunt together out on the field

The last possession should have been Chubb and Hunt pounding the ball towards the endzone

See.....I think he is doing rather well.

- I've really been a fan of his play calling and, personally, love how he goes for it on 4th down.
- He doesn't have his starting QB which we all know is THE main ingredient to a successful team.
- He didn't have Clowney the past two games; Garrett in this game.
- No Anthony Walker, one of the highest graded LB though two games this season.
- There are clear issues with Joe Woods (maybe this is where Stefanski could learn the most from)

For me, Stefanski isn't the problem. If Watson were starting from the jump, I'd bet this team is 4-0 and there wouldn't be much of a fuss.. We have a backup starting for this team.....it is what it is, unfortunately.

Amen, we keep following the analytics, 6 better than 3, and NOW we've lost two games by 3 pts. Wonder if he'll learn.

I don’t understand this: we have the ball on the 1 yard line. First and goal. Brissett is the master Qb sneaker … why not?? hell, do it 4 times!

Defensive Line is overmatched, undersized and does NOT hustle in pursuit very well at all. Very sad that in our two losses could easily be wins with better coaching and situational awareness. We gave up another huge chunk play while in zone AGAIN in the 4th. Joe Woods scheme is not only ineffective, his game day play calling is suspect at best. I understand that we were - Myles and Clowny, but we were in nickel way to much against a QB that is NOT a good passer. WTF, at least dial up a few blitzes make him process things faster which is a big weakness for Mariota and when he throws a lot of picks. A real crap outing for a team that had 10 days to prepare.

The only thing somewhat to still be hopeful about ...

There are no really good teams in the NFL. Everyone is beatable.

I don’t understand this: we have the ball on the 1 yard line. First and goal. Brissett is the master Qb sneaker … why not?? hell, do it 4 times!

This game highlights the tenuous grip kS has on this team.

If I were haslam, this is what would be in the works for tomorrow morning:

Woods will be met at the door. Escorted to his office and allowed to pack a box. Then walked to his car and watched until he was off the premises. This a$$hole has squandered an all-star roster and fielded a dis-organized mess after 3 years of “leading.”

I would then meet KS in his office. He would be asked why in the hell he has fallen on the hand grenade for this coach as he took this all-star roster and made them the laughingstock of the league. I would demand an adequate answer. And it better be good.

I would then demand that the play calling be handed to Alex. Non-negotiable. If this is a problem, then we’ll wish you luck in your next endeavors.

The goodwill that KS earned in his “coach of the year” season is officially gone. He is, and should be, on the hot seat. There should NOT be any discussion of injuries and challenges they have faced this year. That is BS and a cop out. We have a roster most teams would kill for.

They have managed to build a championship roster. Berry did that and he should be safe - for now. I hate the Watson trade and if it doesn’t directly lead to a Super Bowl, I’ll question this front office. Even still, Watson is a dirt-bag and it will absolutely taint any success we have for me. I digress. Obviously, there are holes. Every team has them. And We do. But this team has the talent to win and it doesn’t. This is the coaching staff. Woods has had this team for 3 YEARS! And they look LOST! This defense is indefensible.

You want to let this crap go down on your team, haslam? Fine. But we deserve better. And if this Head Coach won’t course correct, then you have to. How many $hit sandwiches are we supposed to be forced to eat? How long before this torchured fan-base finally has enough? How many rebuilds, coaching changes, roster rebuilds and embarrassments do we have to endure?

I wish we as fans could quit this team for a while - truly hit this ownership in the wallet for once. But it won’t happen. They know we are too committed to this team. They know it’s a culture. And that’s why they know they will never be held accountable.

I know this is was week 4, but I am as disheartened as I’ve been in years.

What about Priefer ?

Another unnecessary loss mostly because of bad decision making from our coaches.

j/c

Who DIDN't see this coming. Sure, our D was down a few starters. Sure, our O is starting a backup qb. A qb who has the ability to look good at times. And bad at times.

Not taking the field goal on the first drive - great drive. I get the mentality of "we're going for a W", but how many times has this bitten us? Too many. Points on the goard is the goal.

D, again, missing some starters, but doesn't every team deal with that? The flat out inability to stop the run? Letting the falcons do to us what we were supposed to do to them?

Questionable play calling, d being totally out of position too often?

I'm not a 'blame' person. It happened.

When the one announcer was talking about the 2 falcons coaches that "grew up watching the Buckeyes on Sat, and the Browns on Sunday", and "if the Browns won it would be a good week, and if they lost, it would be a bad week?"

Wife happened to be in the garage when that was said. All I said was "then they lived in the world I live in."

Ticked off. No more excuses. No more "wait til we're at full strength" bull.

Lost a 100% totally, completely winnable game today.

I understand you are the messenger,so do not be offended,but,
Ward needs to STFU.He flat out stinks.He did get an interception,good,but the non call on his obvious PI saved his but on the 1st drive.Not to worry,he made up for it when he failed to set the edge on atlanta's 1st TD.Horrible run support.
He got his money,no need to get hurt.

Meh, we are what we are. JB played more like a backup today. KS's play calling is still suspect. Woods is an awful DC. We had several guys out. We just are what we are.

Meh, we are what we are. JB played more like a backup today. KS's play calling is still suspect. Woods is an awful DC. We had several guys out. We just are what we are.

This.

The Browns are an average football team with an average coaching staff.

It is what it is.

How about Nick Siriani? After his initial presser I thought there was no way he would be successful. But he's gone out and beat the teams he was supposed to beat with a QB that everyone said wouldn't be any good. I wonder what he would have done with the Browns against the Jets and Falcons.

Heck Stefanski is a 58 yd fg away from being 1-3 against the easiest schedule in the NFL.

#incompetence

I'm not going to rant and rave as I have done in the past. We could easily be 4-0 and the talk of the league. We're not. Today was another disappointing loss in a long list of them. Not as Bad as the Jets loss but not good. We were down too many good starter's for this game and still nearly won. I can't understand why this team fails so badly in the 4th Qtr. game after game when our coaches know what the problem is. I mean they have to know right it happens all the time and they don't fix it? DW"s return is not going to fix this. It has to be done now. 2 losses by 4 points; the difference between being on top of the league undefeated and what we are. It makes me sick and be prepared my fellow Browns fans because now it's going to get harder.

Its simple, this FO and Coaching staff aren't going to be the ones to get us where we want to go. Same issues since game 1, bad coaching on defense, bad situational playcalling on offense, and lack of talent in the front 7 and receiver. Berry gets too much love IMO, this is just as much his issue as anyones. You can't go into the year with tommy freaking Togai as your starting DT.. Our DT's and LBs are some of the worst if not the worst in the league.. This was evidenced today by watching a team realize that if we attack them with the run game its over.. Don't think the other 31 teams don't see the same thing. We are toast. Berry has done nothing to address this, despite guys like Suh and Blake Martinez sitting there and could immediately help. Then on the offensive side you have cooper and then a bunch of guys that might be good enough for ST for most teams, so what is going to happen when they just double him and make other guys beat him. Berry sticks with losers too long and doesn't admit his mistakes. Majority of the talent on this team was brought in by Dorsey. Berry has done his best to break it down to almost unwatchable. Tons of great young coaches in the NFL, we need to stop settling for average, and Stefanski is barely that and Woods can't even see that from the rung hes on. Biggest thing outside of playcalling is these players aren't getting coached to be better, either that or we are drafting low ceiling guys. Not going for the FG in the 1st drive and then having a 1st and goal at the 1 with the best two backs in the NFL and come away with only 3 shows how bad stefanski really is.. He has no feel.

I won’t join in the coaching hatred - maybe a little - but I would have kicked the FG early, and I’d never ever try NJoku on an end-around. That looked awful.
KS tries to get cute sometimes, perhaps he grew up playing too much Madden.

I think we need to keep Berry and Stefanski, but Stefanski needs to recognize or be forced to recognize he needs to make changes on his staff.

But Stefanski is responsible for the entire operation. He's 2-2, and nearly 1-3, against the easiest schedule in the NFL. That's not a good look.

It would be the most Browns things ever to clean house after the season when a career backup QB was the starter for 11 games of the season. However, it's absolutely fair to criticize Stefanski and the coaching staff when it is deserved. Coaching cost the team today. That should not happen.

My biggest concern is, assuming the losses mount with the upcoming schedule, is Haslam gets trigger happy and fires everyone without a plan.

I do believe/hope everyone in the organization had/has realistic expectations and that the season was pretty much shot once Watson was suspended for 11 games. Stefanski got the win he needed to and that was against Carolina.

**Wildcard Scenario**

Haslam loses patience and works behind the scenes on his own offering Sean Payton the keys to the castle to takeover. Browns once again are the buzz of the NFL off-season.

We’re still in first place. We aren’t firing anyone. I know that losing a sucks , but we had key defenders out this week.

Stefanski has to stop doing the Belichek act and start evolving
As a coach. Great he won coach of year. That matters very
Little now going forward.

The lack of 3 defensive players has nothing to do with bad coaching and horrible play calling the last series where it mattered the most.

Hot take...

The defense didn't lose the game today. The offense did. Left too many points on the field. Cannot do that in a game where you're down key personnel on defense. Take all the points you can. Should have put up 30 points today.

Arthur Smith and his staff owned Stefanski today. They made Atlanta's D look like the 85 Bears at various points in the game. Brissett had no intermediate throws available to him today. Nothing easy. If Stefanski can't scheme anyone open, what value is he bringing to the table? That's supposed to offset all of his inadequacies as a head coach.

Stefanski beat Stefanski today. Arthur Smith did his job and ran the ball because it was the obvious thing to do today.

Side note, Arthur Blank looks a Batman or Bond villain. I cannot decide which.

Yeah, falcons owned us in the coaching dept. today. And I’m a fan of KS. But they were a step ahead of our offense all day.

Screen game shut down. Cooper negated. Goal line stuff sniffed out.

Stefanski beat Stefanski today. Arthur Smith did his job and ran the ball because it was the obvious thing to do today.

Side note, Arthur Blank looks a Batman or Bond villain. I cannot decide which.

Alright alright, you don't need to say it twice!

This post game drivel is Stefanski's "they battled" excuse. I have to do better, I have to learn, blah blah blah. What the HELL are you doing Kevin? Because you sure as HELL aren't learning a damn thing. You are KILLING this team: With your play calling, your game management, your refusal to hold your coaches accountable, etc. You are a mediocre play caller at best and you have NO business being a head coach. Because you suck at it. I'm SO tired of these on the job trainees at head coach. Jimmy - FIND ME A HEAD COACH!

Because Stefanski continues to want to prove to all of us he is smarter than everyone else in the NFL and has to be creative. He sucks. I'm tired of his inept play calling. So tired.

I thinkwe've had enough of the analytics. But thanks Kevin. You suck.

The city of ATL adores Arthur Blank. He is a great owner.

2 pages and nobody yet has mentioned that Jacoby Brisset didn't seem to know where to go with the ball on drop back passes inside the opponents ten yard line.
on 4 out of 4 times, Maybe number 5, or number 4 was the low percentage overthrow in the corner.

( one read, neh, give up on the play/pass, then the whole play disintegrates and you scramble into improvisation. ) In the red zone; in scoring position.

What do the fine folks of ATL say, "Batman or Bond villain" look alike?

I say Batman villain if in pinstrip suit.

We were waiting for you.

We had two mind numbing calls outside of the red zone stuff … the end around to Njoku?? And the flea flicker screen on the goal line? Haha , just dumb

The end around to Njoku was maddening. I know he's athletic and all, but he has a lumbering gait. I'm not sure what they were hoping to get out of that play.

Yeah it was just so .. odd?

And if I had one question to KS: Brissett’s best ability is his Qb sneak. We had 1st and goal on the 1 two different drives. Why not just try it down there?

If we truly are following analytics, wouldn't analytics tell the staff that JB is something like 8 for 8 this season on 3rd or 4th down and short, mostly by sneaks. IF we followed analytics, seems to me we wouldn't roll out on first and goal at the 1 or 2.

Right now, as this team is and how we're playing I can't see us winning any of the next 7 games. I hope I'm wrong, but I think our season is going to get very ugly.

I think we’ll squeeze out a win or two, but as soon as Watson was suspended beyond 4 games (imagine if his suspension woulda been over right now) our season was basically over. The NFL made sure we wouldn’t be relevant down the stretch this year. That was our own doing when we signed Watson.

But I still think we SHOULD have won the two games we lost this year so far, which is a bad feeling.

Stefanski has got to give up play calling. He is killing us with unnecessary, failed razzle dazzle. Joe Woods has been terrible, but last year, the defense came together down the stretch. Maybe that will happen again. If not, get Sean Payton for next year.

Stefanski is a good diplomat and a decent organizer but as a play caller and football coach he's not even close to being elite.

Our disciplinary record is still mediocre.
When it matters the most we're still doing unnecessary and stupid mistakes.
His play calling is too often inconsistent and flat out confusing.

He's brave with his decisions when the sensible option is to be conservative and the opposite. It's difficult to find any logic.

Parting with Baker was long term the right thing to do but the way he handled it was clumsy. Against the Steelers (2021) he allowed Baker to get sacked 8-9 times, that's unforgivable if he label himself as a player friendly coach.

I don't think he will last long if this continues. .

J/c

Stefanski is good at getting guys open and having shifts/multiple formations/sets/etc

Stefanski is NOT good at calling plays AT TIMES … in other words, it seems like he gets too cute or gets away from our identity

J/c

Stefanski is good at getting guys open and having shifts/multiple formations/sets/etc

Stefanski is NOT good at calling plays AT TIMES … in other words, it seems like he gets too cute or gets away from our identity

Baker allowed Baker to get sacked 9 times against the Steelers.

Okay.......I couldn't read all the posts. I knew it would be bad, but the blame game of fans on message boards and talk radio are so freaking bad. Here are my thoughts that probably no one wants to read. LOL

--This was a really devastating loss regarding our playoff hopes. It's a game you should win if you want to be in contention, especially given the upcoming schedule.

--I don't think Stefanski was terrible. I agreed w/passing on the FG. It's like people love analytics in theory and then hate them in practice. I thought Stefanski made one bad decision that stood out. We were down by the goal line and we ran Chubb. He was stopped and fumbled. Forward progress was the call and we kept the ball. Should have run JB on the sneak there. He's great at it.

--JB played very well in the first half. Not very good in the second half. The interception to end the game was a really bad decision. We had two plays to get the first down. Can't force it there. One thing I noticed is that he does not throw as well when moving to his left. It does seem a little weird seeing all the negative comments after years of seeing nothing but excuses for the QB play. I have one more negative on JB. We had a play very early in the second half where he threw a long out route to DPJ. The pass was fine, but it came a beat to late. Gotta pull the trigger earlier.

--The OL did not have one of their better days. They were not opening as many holes as usual in the running game. We got stuffed too many times on early downs which forced us to pass more than we wanted to. They also gave up more pressures than usual. They did have some very good moments. They sure did not lose the game. Thank God we don't have to listen to that excuse any longer.

--DPJ made some nice catches. But, we don't have a ton of talent at WR if teams take Cooper away. Njoku's fumble was costly.

--Chubb and Hunt were their usual great selves.

--Our 4 starters out on D was significant.

--The DL played well against the run at times and got gashed at times. Weird.

--Our LBers are not good. JOK is a good athlete, but guys break tackles on him. None of our LBers are good against the pass. Their depth of their drops are too shallow.

--The secondary wasn't too bad. Yes, we had another blown coverage, but ALL teams do.

--The place kicker and punter were good. Ford made a really dumb decision take one out of the end zone. He does that too much. They benched him after that. Glad DPJ was back there instead of Felton.

--Final Thought: We could have very well won this game. We didn't. I gotta give ATL some credit. They beat us at times at our own game. They won in the trenches more than we did. That surprised me and it was the key to the game.

Yes. If it were 4th and 1, that's one thing. But 4th and 3 from the 4? On the road, take the points.

The D really needs to look at themselves in the mirror. Another (really) blown coverage. But what is worse is how Atlanta was able to run at will during that stretch in the 2nd half. We're the team who is supposed to be able to impose our will in the 2nd half. They rammed it down our throats, and kicked us in the nads. We knew it was coming and couldn't stop it.

On the plus side, Pitts was not much of a factor. Good TEs have killed us many a time.

I take little solace in the fact that PIT and BAL also lost.

I also am on the going for it on the first drive. I agreed with all the others, but to me you need to score points, and scoring first in a game is important.

Had we been down at the time, I might agree with going for it, but being a 0-0 game, take the 3, which as it works out was 3 we needed.

I haven't looked, but I would be shocked if analytics doesn't show that the team who scores first wins the most games. I get going for it from a percentage standpoint and have long said teams should go for it more often, but I also feel that scoring first is a big boost. When you have a chance to score 1st in a game, take the points. That should be a black letter law in the head coach's handbook.

j/c:

LOL. Baker is playing worse in Carolina than he did as an injured QB in Cleveland. And you and others still want to twist the knife - and I saw the other day you wrote how you didn't want to stop commenting on Baker because you think getting a reaction to your posts is so funny.... In all honesty that says a lot about you and no-one else. As for the Steelers game and his 9 sacks - Baker did let himself get sacked 9 times. And it probably had nothing to do with TJ Watt being schemed 1 on 1 with our 3rd string rookie RT.

Regards the CLE ATL game - I tend to agree this game and loss is less about Joe Woods and more about the multiple challenges we're facing with a back up QB who came back to his level a little, multiple players missing on D, some questionable decisions during the game. One general comment - I've seen multiple posts lamenting going for it on 4th and 3 instead of taking points... And I know more than one poster will respond that going for it on 4th and short is the right call based on analytics / stats. [1] 4th and 1 and being able to get a first with a QB sneak is one thing. 4th and 3 is a different situation. [2] the Analytics only works when your team at least gets a first down at the same rate as the NFL average - if you are failing more than the average, maybe you need to re-asses and I think all of us have seen more times when we missed points when going for it than when we got a TD out of going for it on 4th and short within FG range. And maybe that's not the case, maybe we remember the misses more than the successes? But the principle holds that *IF* we are not successful at the NFL average rate, then all the analytics means squat.

For the last 20+ years it seems we've played up to good competition and often under achieved to 'weak' opposition ... hoping we find a way to bounce back with a W next week when the opposition is definitely much better than ATL.

I'm good with whatever you think.

I just got done watching the game for a second time but this time with the opportunity to slow motion and review each play.

In short, it was a game that the Browns should have won ...the offense played well enough to win the game...the defense DID NOT..!

The Browns defense is plagued with poor coaching that begins with a lack of attention toward teaching "basic defensive skills". There seems to be a lack of emphasis on defensive basics that come back to bite the Browns nearly every week.

Honestly, I have a difficult time believing that Stefanski puts up with a defensive coaching staff that refuses to emphasize the very football principals that Stefanski appears to demand out of his offensive players.

IMO, the entire team earned THIS LOSS...defensive and offensive coaches as well as those players who DID NOT show up and give their best effort for this game.

JMO, but some on this coaching staff seem to think they are invincible...as if they have no responsibility for the performance of the players they coach.

I seriously doubt that Stefanski or the folks he works for, accept a losing effort from anyone on this coaching staff.

They certainly beat us at our own game. Their second half

Groan.

Damn. That pill's tough to swallow.

j/c

Regarding going for it on fourth down as compared to analytics. Analytics is a funny animal and how you use it depends on how you apply it. You can, as it appears the Browns do, use the statistics for going for it in fourth down instead of kicking the FG according to the overall success rate in the NFL. And that's fine if that's the way you choose to approach it. Or you could apply it depending on your teams success rate. On how going for it on fourth and short has worked for your team. If that were the case Stefanski would have taken the FG in the first quarter.

Taking accountability even though I don't think the failure of execution was his fault.

When I saw that play live I knew it was a TD .. that sucks

I’m not specifically debating against you Vers but in general from my perspective Stefanski’s accountability is more words then actions.

He talk the talk but so far nothing has changed. We saw these problems both in 2020 and 2021. There’s a pattern in his bad decision making and that is that nothing happen. It’s not only about what he do but maybe more about what he don’t do.

Play calling isn’t always about taking the right decisions and has the best set up or scheme. It’s also about trust and loyalty. Trusting the process, trusting command and being loyal to your boss decision. I don’t always see that. Recently Denzel and Myles gives strange comments that doesn’t sound like a team in harmony. Before them it was OBJ, Jarvis and Baker. Star players voicing concerns in a subtle way?

I’m not totally dismiss Kevin’s contributions to our results but I can’t say I’m directly impressed. With so much talents to his disposal anything less then some sort of success would be a huge disappointment. Both KS and AB needs to deliver before it’s to late. Our owners isn’t exactly famous for their patience.

I don't think Ski is the problem. JB has done a great job, but he isn't dynamic and can't make all the throws. I expect things to change once DW can play.

the problem is that it doesn't matter who the QB is or how many points the O scores. the dysfunction of the defense seems to scale with the offensive output.

so DW could throw 5 TDs, and the defense is gonna go out of its way to allow the opposing offense to score 5 + a FG

^This.^

And we've been watching it in earnest since Woods took the reins. "Eye test" says his gameday algorithm is broken. Even games we win -- no lead is ever safe. Only exception I can even think of is last years Bears game... and that was Fields running for his life, with no weapons, while Myles stacked up sack after sack.

Here's the bottom line -

Stefanski is an average coach with an average staff. Some of his staff are above average (Callahan) and some are below average (Woods)

I said two things needed to happen for the Browns to have a shot this year -

1. Defense had to be top 5.
2. Stefanski had to clearly be the better coach than the guy opposite of him.

Neither has happened. And the Browns are 2-2, and nearly 1-3, as a result...and against the easiest schedule in the league to date.

We have an average head coach who you have to hope will get better with Watson.

As for this season, it's pretty much toast.

Joe Woods is a problem and it's going to really show and be prevalent in these next 6-7 weeks. It's going to get ugly.

How in God's name do you guys think you know more than our coaches? Seriously. Most of you never even played, never mind coached. Ridiculous.

I know you should never lose up 13 with 1:30 to go and the opposition has no timeouts left.

You get an "average" label automatically after that.

If I say a McDonalds cheeseburger tastes bad, does it mean I'm saying I know more about cooking? No? Didn't think so...

KS and his "staff" are wasting the prime years of our best players (Chubb, Garrett, Bitonio, etc.) I hate to admit this but I kinda admire Tomlin's old school approach to coaching, lets his coordinators call the plays and overrules them when necessary (maybe? possibly?)
I kinda with that Tony Dungy would reconsider retirement and coach this team, I think his leadership skills would be perfect for us.

just accept that you too Stoopid to understand. You either dumb, absurd or ridiculous ! Certainly your posts should come with a warning to tell other posters not to pay attention to your opinion !

Anyone know why 888 is posting on the Post Game thread in a game he didn't even watch? I'm guessing it was an attack on another poster who actually watched the game and I think I know the target. I received a text message the other day telling me how the guy insults me multiple times a day. . What kind of person does that? I wish I could put a restraining order on him. It's creepy as can be.

Someone tell Vers he doesn't know what the f* he's talking about. I watched the game .... But then I guess don't say anything coz y'all let him talk chit all the time without ever addressing him.

As Pit has mentioned many times, Vers claims to have many posters on ignore but bad mouths those same posters constantly. All class.

You received a TEXT message from someone, telling you 888 insults you multiple times a day? Who "texted" you?

But, go on about Baker. Sorry man, you come across as a joke. If people don't agree with you, you attack. You and pit deserve each other - just take it to pm's, please. And yeah, you say you have me on ignore (since I don't agree with you at times?) I guarantee you read what I post.

I believe ignoring only works when you're logged in

If you read the board not logged in, well ya see what people are saying.


Football talk, I felt there was some good offensive blocking !


Not as in


Dawgtalkers blocking !

"Ignoring" also has a button to toggle and view the post. Evidence is right above where Vers magically knew what maga888 was talking about but acted like it was a "guess" based on texts he received over the weekend. Either that or he insulted a poster based on a post he didn't even see. Actually, I guess either is very possible.

Nah............he saw it. He read it. He can say he has someone on ignore, but all you have to do is click on it. Then you see it, you read it, and then you reply with "I have so and so on ignore, but I bet they said.................."

I won't even go into the mentality of someone like that.

You want a restraining order put on a guy who dislikes you on an internet forum? Good luck on 4chan. SMH, you can't make this crap up. It will be okay Vers. Nobody takes you that seriously anyway.

Hey, he "received" a text message the other day, from someone telling him someone attacks him everyday.

But, vers didn't deserve to be fired from his job, and he knows more football than any nfl coach. Well, he, and coach B.

Coach B... that one is low.

Seriously though, Vers can post all he wants and what he wants. When I want, I'll respond. When others want to respond, they'll respond. That's just how it is. And we all know it. I'll be expecting my restraining order...

Dear Browns

Don't shoot yourself in the foot this week.

Thanks

Vers reading this thread...

Now that's funny. (Even Vers has to laugh at that.)

You'll have to tell him to toggle my post...

Send him a text.

it seems When the defense creates a turnover, the ensuing drive is...

well it's like the Browns get caught off guard, by their own winfall of anti-misfortune of their own defense gifting them a turnover, and
OH,
they weren't ready to go back to offense, and then, ... well just hand it off, and wait a minute, 3rd and long? ok punt.

Which has to deflate a defense over time, if it's that way over and over again.

Holy Ancient Browser Batman!

LOL

My first thought as well. Netscape?

j/c:

I can only imagine where this thread went to. Oh well....

Back to football for just a moment.

There has been a lot of talk about how our QB played on Sunday. There has also been a lot of talk about how Joe Woods didn't make any adjustments and how bad our secondary is. This isn't a tell-all, but please consider:

Marcus Mariota: 7 out of 19 for 139 yds. 0 TDs and 1 interception. He had 5 rushes for 3 yards w/0 TDs.

Jacoby Brissett: 21 out of 35 for 231 yds. 0 TDs and 1 interception. He had 5 rushes for 15 yards w/1 TD.

So, which qb was more effective?

Did Woods scheme anything to improve the play of the secondary and limit Mariotta's passing and running threat?

Okay, y'all can get back to belittling another poster.

Which QB took a sack at the worst possible moment? Hint: The same guy you crowed about all off-season who wouldn't take "needless sacks".

Which QB threw a pick into double coverage with a wide open RB just 8 yards away? Hint: The same guy you crowed about all off-season who would take "better" care of the ball.

The "more effective" QB's team won Sunday. I don't think PFF has created a rating for that yet.

We have a poorly coached team...one that is under-performing given the talent on the roster...again. Players come and go...the really good teams have head coaches that stick around for a very long time...we've still not yet found that guy.

It's funny you mention me while doing the exact same thing. Irony at its finest.

j/c...

Browns had been scoring TDs at a 67% rate inside the redzone prior to this past Sunday in which they had only a 33% success rate.

Inside the the 10 yard line against the Falcons the Browns had:

- 3 drives and 10 plays
- a total of -5 yards
- 10 total points
- 7 pass plays, 3 run plays

The Browns just did a bad job in this area on this particular day. Cannot have this with the upcoming schedule. The margin for error is thin with this team.



https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...-browns-goal-line-194743013/#194743013_2

Don't know if I have a lot to add that hasn't been mentioned, there were a lot of Browns fans in the stands.

I put much of the blame on Stefanski, I get being aggressive but 4th and goal from the 4? (Yea, I know, it was really 4th and 3 from the 4 but when you line up pass and send everybody into the endzone, you aren't playing for the first down)... our analytics on 4th down, in general, are very good. Our analytics going back several years, of 4th and goal from more than a yard or two, are horrible. Take the damn points.

There are a few things in the NFL that are almost impossible to stop.. blocking Aaron Donald, getting Justin Tucker to miss a 40 yard FG, or preventing Nick Chubb from getting a yard... so why we take him off the field on 4th and goal from inside the 1, then try to throw the ball is completely beyond me. This is not a case of "well if the play worked it would have been a good call"... Nick Chubb, up the middle or off tackle 3 times for a yard is a 99.9% chance of success.. throwing the ball, there are only about 9 things that can go wrong and one of them did and we ended up with a FG.

I like Stefanski, I do, but there is no way he would do what the Falcons did to us... they figured something out in the running game and, I think in their last few drives they only threw the ball once, they just ran it down our throats.. Stefanski would never do that, he would have to mix in the pass frequently because he has to outsmart people and he is very much about thinking he knows what others are thinking and trying to do something different.. he wants to play chess when sometimes the game is "Punch them in the mouth until they stop you" and he just refuses to play that game.

This was another winnable game, I thought JB played pretty well for most of the game, I was happy to see him go downfield a few times and open it up. I will say this, it happened with Baker and now it's happening with JB, near the end of close games, other teams get guys open, we always seem to be throwing into very tight coverage.. our late game drives always struggle, no matter who is the QB, we just never seem to have a rhythm in those 2 minute drill type drives... I'm not a smart enough Xs and Os guy to know why, I just know that other teams, even other teams without pro-bowl caliber QB play, seem to make them look a lot more fluid than we do. Ours look like such a freakin struggle all the time. JB has 2 ints in 4 games, both of them are on the final drive of the game where we needed one score to tie/win and he had to force the ball into coverage... you can't tell me that isn't partially a coaching problem.

So Stefanski said that by going for it on 4th and goal from the 4 on the opening drive showed that we were willing to put it all on the line... on the opening drive? that seems a little extreme.

Yet, in the 4th quarter, with less than 4 minutes to go, the game is tied 20-20... they have marched the ball right down our throat on their last 2 possessions... we had the chance to try a 61-yard FG, which we all know that inside in ideal conditions is well within Cade Yorks range.. but we punted. We did not put it all on the line when it counted, we did it in the first 6 minutes of the game, but not in the final 4 minutes.... we punted, so we could run our overmatched and physically exhausted defense back out there and promptly gave up the game winning FG drive.

This is one of my challenges with Stefanski.. are we the lay it on the line, take the risks, play to win team? or are we the play it safe, play the odds, always trust the analytics team?

That single decision failed, and we have success on sneaks. But in my opinion, when we get to the red zone, the plays get dumber. And Stefanski won't help himself. It seems to get worse the closer we get to the goal line. We let up on what got us there for fades, screens, and calls straight into packed boxes. Like Ski has not had it happen before. The plays we see him calling leave us often behind the sticks, especially in the red zone. And while I admit going all four demands respect, especially if you convert it, it is not a lifestyle you want to cultivate. Our conservative calls to start series have put us in third and long and punt or go way too often. Be a little different genius. Passing up points is bad. Try this: Take the points as you find them in the first half; fight for whatever points are dictated by score in the second. No lead is safe with this defense which gives up scores with games on the line, and it isn't slow about breaking. They can't get themselves off the field except by giving up scores.
I am willing to risk Van Pelt or hand him a half. And ST is worse.

A true treasure.

And Nick did that splitting carries.

Chubb is amazing

Bard: you know football., fourth and four, you kick the FG on the opening drive. Correct?

The end -around to Njoku was flat-out stupid. How is that in the playbook?

You didn't ask me, but I had NO PROBLEM w/that decision.

There was only one really bad decision. We should have had JB sneak it after the play where Chubb fumbled, but they ruled his forward progress there. But bro, all coaches make decisions that be questioned. We did not lose that game due to playcalling. Not even close.

Lol that was so dumb honestly. Even at that moment I stood up and was like WTF

That is Ski's M.O. AND his primary issue. Out smart 'em...out think 'em. He's an OC...an OC that needs a HC to reign him in.

That could be the case, but I highly doubt he’ll take a demotion lol. Personally, I think he’s 80% GOOD as a coach (which is WAY higher than other coaches we’ve had). But, like you said, he still has his warts.

I completely disagree. Stefanski is an excellent HC. He gives us an edge almost every week of the season. He gets praised by guys study the. game for a living. Guys who break down tape. Yet, our fans think he sucks.

I never said he sucked, maybe others have. He’s 80% good, which is really good. No coach is perfect. He’s an excellent game planner, organizer, play designer, etc. I don’t even think his aggressiveness is a bad thing. And his time management is tops in the league.

His problem is the actual play calling at times … AND, the fact that our defense is so soft IMO (whether that’s Woods scheme, personality, etc). Now, if we deem that as a PERSONNEL thing, then that’s on Berry and not KS.

Sorry. I wasn't really replying to you specifically. I should have made that clear. My apologies.

No it’s all good. I think many of us are frustrated and some of us are pointing it at KS, which is unwarranted in most ways

Are these the same guys who believed that Hue Jackson was the most-respected offensive mind in the NFL? How often does a pundit crap on an existing HC? It's a fraternity.

The bottom line is all that matters in the end...and the same issues with the defense keep costing the team Ws. The DC isn't fixing it...and neither is the HC.