I have watched Kizer in three games. The things that stand out are he fits the mold from a physical standpoint.
He has the arm to make all the required throws. He can move effectively in and around the pocket.
He can be accurate but is not consistent. He will make a wow throw and on the next play miss a guy who is open by ten yards. He will a stick throw and then take a sack when he could throw the ball away.
For a guy who many has a the top quarterback in the draft from what I have seen so far he should stay in school for another year. I have no idea about his financial situation and what pressure he is under to turn pro.
What I see on the field is a guy with great upside but at this point lacks the reps. There are times when his inexperience shows up. He just makes the wrong decision or does not see the field correctly.
It is understandable this is second season.
I will watch more games over time and continue to look at some of the other prospects.
That seems accurate to me. I have seen the same things. My biggest concern thus far is he is not consistently accurate and he makes some baffling decisions.
I have watched Kizer in three games. The things that stand out are he fits the mold from a physical standpoint.
He has the arm to make all the required throws. He can move effectively in and around the pocket.
He can be accurate but is not consistent. He will make a wow throw and on the next play miss a guy who is open by ten yards. He will a stick throw and then take a sack when he could throw the ball away.
For a guy who many has a the top quarterback in the draft from what I have seen so far he should stay in school for another year. I have no idea about his financial situation and what pressure he is under to turn pro.
What I see on the field is a guy with great upside but at this point lacks the reps. There are times when his inexperience shows up. He just makes the wrong decision or does not see the field correctly.
It is understandable this is second season.
I will watch more games over time and continue to look at some of the other prospects.
I agree, Watson has looked better lately but is still inaccurate at times. The same with Kaaya. Kaaya's arm seems a little weak buy its hard to tell from my Lazy Boy
Regardless, it is the umpteenth example of Vers taking a thread off on a tangent that nobody gives a crap about. So now I might as well NOT talk about Kizer and talk about Vers' constant need to highjack threads and butt heads with people.
This is pretty simple generalizations are just that.
I don't care if the guy comes from North Dakota State and has red hair. The question is can he play?
Kizer may very well become a great quarterback. However, at this point in time his inexperience shows. Notre Dame or any school is capable of producing a quarterback that can become great.
Long way till the draft.
The thing about Kizer is that there is no replacement for game experience and he may just need more time.
Well we're 0-7 so I guess its about time to start watching more college tape.
Kizer seems to be most people's favorite to be the the top QB right now although his performances seem to be up and down. For QBs all in all, there doesn't seem to be a can't miss prospect.
The one I currently like is Pat Mahomes from Texas Tech. The ball straight out JUMPS out of his hand and his accuracy is solid. Plays in a gimmick offence that inflates his numbers but he seems to put up good results against decent defences.
I need to find a Red Raiders game on TV so I can watch him for a full game.
Kizer is a tough one to predict. His upside in Cam Newton but his downside is EJ Manuel. Not enough info to easily predict.
I was thinking he's more of a Byron Leftwich or Donovan McNabb type.
well which is it, McNabb or Leftwich? Because they were NOTHING alike as QBs
You're right, none of the guys mentioned in this have anything in common. He might be the next Warren Moon, he could also be Doug Williams or Andre Ware.
Cam and EJ were both big athletic Qb's with strong arms, inconsistent accuracy and questionable football smarts. I think this describes Kizer too.
Once in the pro's their paths diverged. Cam learned football (granted he still has a ways to go) and improved his accuracy and led his team to the superbowl. EJ floundered. He never learned the game and never improved his accuracy and now is out of football. Which path will Kizer follow?
Said that 5 weeks ago or whenever the first mention of him came up .... and been talking anyone that will listen since then HES NOT COMING OUT ... HES NOT READY ...
Said that 5 weeks ago or whenever the first mention of him came up .... and been talking anyone that will listen since then HES NOT COMING OUT ... HES NOT READY ...
Nice to see others finally coming around ... ..
Players only leave school early if they are ready.
Said that 5 weeks ago or whenever the first mention of him came up .... and been talking anyone that will listen since then HES NOT COMING OUT ... HES NOT READY ...
Nice to see others finally coming around ... ..
He's coming out if he thinks he'll get top 3 pick money.
Kizer is a tough one to predict. His upside in Cam Newton but his downside is EJ Manuel. Not enough info to easily predict.
I was thinking he's more of a Byron Leftwich or Donovan McNabb type.
well which is it, McNabb or Leftwich? Because they were NOTHING alike as QBs
You're right, none of the guys mentioned in this have anything in common. He might be the next Warren Moon, he could also be Doug Williams or Andre Ware.
My point was McNabb and Leftwich were nothing alike. Or do we just assume all black QBs are mobile QBs. Whether they are, or not?
The guy made a dumb comment all ND QBs having personality problems and he would never draft one from there.
Do you know how dumb that is?
How many ND QB's in the post 15 years have you personally talked to and met? I have met every single one of them. My father is a main member at Linebackers here in South Bend, Indiana and I get invites to meet and greets quite often with the football team. There has not been a QB from ND with anything close to good character in a LOOOONG time. Yeah you can bring up Joe Montana but he was a 1 in a million and he almost didn't' even make the team as the 7th string QB.
The current culture at ND really does a great deal of harm to the personality of a QB in how they encourage them to be self entitled douchebags. They are ENCOURAGED to be snobs and think of normal people with total disdain ever since They have had a hell of a time fixing the culture at ND the past 20 years since the Elders of the Holy Cross got a big head and ran off some of their top minds.
I stand by what I said because I actually know what the freak I am talking about and am not making some broad statement based on nothing but blowing hot air around.
I would never draft a QB from ND. Period. Especially not this current idiot with the hot temper who is always getting into trouble that he only gets away with because he is the local starting QB.
To me, implying a QB will not be good based on which college he attended makes more sense than basing it on his family.
Many posters on here were dead set against Derek Carr because his brother did not amount to much. IIRC one wrote they would not take him in the 7th round because he played poorly against USC the previous year. I liked Carr's arm when he came out and wanted to take him with our second 1st rounder (instead of Manziel) that year and he was actually taken right after we chose Joel B.
I do not see the validity in judging qbs [good or bad] because of what school they played for. Sorry.
Not sure if this was meant for me, but no, I am not mad at all. I wasn't even mad yesterday. I agree with you, judging a QB because of his school is not that wise, but judging one by who his brother is makes less sense to me.
Certain schools run certain offenses that don't translate well to NFL, some schools QB's almost always have tons of talent around them and maybe their success is related to that. That is what I meant.
If your comments were not meant for me, never mind.
Not big on drafting any QB this time, I like the ones we have and believe they will work if we can protect them, check this http://walterfootball.com/draft2017_2.php
We picked the wrong year to have the worst record.
Next year, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, and Browning. One of them will be very good.
I feel the same way. Though I try to like Rosen I just don't like what I see. It's like all the pieces are there to make a great QB but there's something off. I'll keep watching, but despite his numbers, something is missing.
Notre Dame's season is over, and so is DeShone Kizer's college career, as the Notre Dame quarterback declared for the NFL Draft on Monday.
The decision doesn't come as much of a surprise, though there had been some speculation that he might return. All of that speculation wasn't enough to overcome the fact that many project Kizer to be a first-round pick. Our own Dane Brugler has Kizer going second overall to the San Francisco 49ers in his latest mock draft.
Kizer's Notre Dame career was filled with surprises. He did not win the starting job heading into the 2015 season, but took over for Malik Zaire after Zaire went down with an injury. Kizer's first game included a comeback on the road against Virginia that ended with 39-yard touchdown pass to Will Fuller with 12 seconds left. The Irish would finish the 2015 season with a 10-3 record, and were in contention for the College Football Playoff before a late season loss to Stanford.
That finish led to high expectations for both Kizer and the Irish heading into 2016, and both failed to live up to them. Kizer threw for 2,925 yards and 26 touchdowns this season, but his completion percentage dropped to 58.7. Notre Dame stumbled to a 4-8 finish as a team, though the blame for that falls a lot of places that aren't DeShone Kizer.
As for where Notre Dame goes from here, with Kizer leaving for the NFL, and Malik Zaire transferring, Brandon Wimbush and Ian Book will compete for the job alongside incoming freshman Avery Davis.
Now that Kizer has declared for the draft where would he go?
Quarterbacks are very hard to predict in regards to where in the draft they will go.
In my opinion he should have stayed in school. However, I am not privy to his financial situation.
Anyway, I would no doubt bring him for a workout and put him under the microscope.
He has talent and potential. Good size, good arm, moves well, can make NFL throws. The problem in projecting him into the NFL comes from lack of experience. He is very inconsistent. His decision making is far from mature.
So with that stated and the inherent risk I see him as a second rounder. Maybe late first if he has a good pre-draft workout etc.
He is the type of guy who could become great in a few years. And at the same time he may never develop and be a bust.
No question though I would look at him in every way he can be studied.
Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer intends to enter the 2017 NFL Draft, and the team that's in position to have the first chance to pick him is reportedly doing more than its fair share of due diligence on the QB.
Kizer announced his draft intentions on Monday, a day after ESPN reported Browns scout Lake Dawson spent "an inordinate amount of time" scouting Kizer at Notre Dame.
Cleveland, 0-13, holds a one-game lead over the 49ers for the draft's top pick with three weeks left in the regular season, and Kizer happens to play the position where Cleveland has its most glaring need, so it's not surprising that the franchise would have its eye on him.
Notre Dame finished a disappointing 4-8 this season, and Kizer's confidence appeared to wane as the season progressed. Fighting Irish coach Brian Kelly said Kizer's play was "not acceptable" after he turned the ball over twice in a surprising home loss to Duke. Kelly even suggested he might take the starting job away from Kizer, although he didn't.
Despite the struggles, Kizer remains one of the most highly regarded QB prospects. Two scouts told NFL.com's Lance Zierlein in September that they preferred Kizer to Clemson QB Deshaun Watson, who also intends to enter the 2017 draft, and an executive has projected Kizer as a top-10 pick.
However, the consensus from the scouting community seems to be that no QB prospect in the 2017 class has emerged as a franchise-caliber player, no matter which underclassmen are granted early draft eligibility. The question is, will that lead QB-needy teams picking at the top of the draft to look elsewhere to address that area?
There's been some scuttlebutt that the Browns could pursue a trade for a young QB like Jimmy Garoppolo or AJ McCarron. A move like that would put Cleveland in position to solidify a position that has long been a source of consternation for the franchise, and take the best player available with its top pick. The team is reportedly enamored with one of CFB's top talents, Texas A&M DE Myles Garrett, who has yet to reveal his draft intentions.
Cleveland also holds the Eagles' first-round pick, which is currently slotted at No. 9, so the team will have plenty of flexibility. The Browns traded down from the No. 2 pick with the Eagles last year and passed on a chance to select Carson Wentz. The 2017 draft could be shaped by the answer to this question: Do the Browns see something in Kizer, or another top QB prospect, that they didn't see in Wentz?
What is a being proven winner and what does it have to do with NFL success? Under this premise Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy, Matt Leinart, and Vince Young should have all been great NFL QBs.
Unless something happened that I don't know about, we are not being relegated to the ACC. The success of Watson's team in college does not matter.
I do not know if Watson will be a successful NFL QB. I do know that stating his wins as a checkmark on his side is completely pointless.
(I am also not sure if Watson is more physically gifted than Trubiskyor Kizer.)
why not? they are all the same size. they all have an arm.
and Watson certainly looks faster.
and sure i can point to wins. would you pick a QB who was a bum in college? shouldn't a QB's play in big games count for something?
in my eyes it absolutely does.
also, vince young has a 31-20 w/l record in the nfl. his problem was the his mental breakdown, but he was playing very well in the league.
wasn't he 30-17 under Fisher?
that's just how i roll. sorry. im taking the guy who threw almost 4000 yards, rushed for 1100 yards, and played in big time games against big time competition, over a one hit wonder who still tossed less TD's than Watson this season, and a guy who got benched because he was sucking wind out of the team with his horrible play.
I watched the video of Kizer vs Stanford on draftbreakdown.com and he had a horrible game. Overthrows, underthrows, interceptions - yuck. Still, you could tell he has a strong arm and good athleticism. But he looks like he needs another two years in college. You can almost see a young Steve McNair in there somewhere, but he has a long way to go to be a viable NFL QB, imo.
I should also add that I'm not a big film-breakdown guy, and it was only one game - but those were my impressions.
When judging college quarterbacks you have to first figure out how you want to judge them.
Are you going to judge them statistically? And then rank them by quarterback ratings?
What is the criterion for measurement?
How then do you forecast them into the NFL?
What other factors come into play? Wins and loses? College? Schedule? Years in college? Competition? Offensive system?
I can understand why you like Watson. He is a good college quarterback. He is a three year player on a good team. Clemson plays a good schedule. He has good numbers and is a good athlete. He has won big games. From what I have read he is high character guy and good leader.
Kizer is a two year player. His college career does not match up well against Watson statistically.
Trubisky is kind of a one year wonder although when he has played; he has played well. But he has been successful even coming up to college.
Why would I rank them Trubisky, Kizer, Watson?
Because I am trying to forecast them into the NFL.
It is a matter of watching "their game". How they play.
Does their style translate to the NFL?
Kizer has I have stated in my opinion should have stayed in school. He is not a mature quarterback. At this point Watson is the better player. He has more experience and is more mature in his development. However, Kizer has flashed (in my opinion) better potential. He is a pocket passer who can move. He has shown the ability to fit the ball into tight windows; to anticipate when a guy becomes open. He has good size and a strong arm. He throws well on the run. He relies on his ability as a passer. His issues of inconsistency look to be mostly from lack of experience. Over time his game forecasts better into the NFL than Watson.
Watson relies upon his ability to run as well as pass. That has not been a good formula in the NFL. In many ways he is like Tajh Boyd and to a degree Griffin. He is inconsistent as a passer and his accuracy is questionable.
Trubisky although inexperienced has shown strong NFL traits. He has good size. He is a good all around athlete. Powerful arm and very accurate. He can make every NFL type throw and he does it with little effort. He plays with good instincts and pocket presence. Makes good decisions even though the offense is somewhat limited. He will need time to learn the NFL game. At this point he is behind Watson as far quarterback maturity. But in my opinion he projects better into the NFL over time.
I have not gone into great detail into each guy because I don't have time right now.
What I will say is Garoppolo is the best option and the lowest risk. If not him I would draft Trubisky.
At a later point I will get very specific about the quarterbacks available.
There is no QB in this years draft worth a high first round pick. There just isn't. Mitch Trubisky is probably the one I like the most from this draft though. He has nice footwork, good vision, throws a catchable ball, and can throw a decent deep ball. I just don't know that he will last to the second round where I would be interested in drafting him.
Doing a group film breakdown/discussion thread on the QB draft prospects. General idea is to look at the QB over the course of a few games. 1 game at a time where specific plays are discussed.
What would be a good game to start with for Kizer?
Start with Miami and work forward to the most recent.
It's ok to look at specific plays but playing quarterback is way more than just highlights. It is often about throwing the ball away. Sometimes even taking the sack. Checking down when necessary. Avoidance of a bad play. Protecting yourself.
It is also about making routine throws easily. Ball placement on screens and plays designed for run after catch. Decision making. Pocket awareness. Movement in the pocket. The ability to make third downs by run or pass.
The marvel guy of college was Andrew Luck. He did every thing right. His form as a quarterback was as close to perfect as you could get.
Not many guys play four years and graduate. In addition the spread and gimmick offenses are really hard to evaluate. The NFL is about pocket play, reading the defense post snap and making throws to the right guy at the right time. Not many college teams play that way.
So you just have to watch the guys and look for things they can do that will translate to the NFL. Then you have to find about the prospects background. His work habits and leadership skills. Not everything is on game film.
No worries we agree then, the aspects of evaluation you were describing in your post are exactly the intent of the QB breakdown threads.
The current aim for the 1st game to view in the breakdown threads has been an average game as opposed to one of the prospects better games with the intent to finish the process on a positive note.
Vers says to do their worst game first and then go from there ... he had a few real stinkers this year ... he also had HORRIBLE 2nd halves in almost every game ...
NC State was his worst game .. it was played in a monsoon .. Zaire should have played the entire game ... U couldn't throw the ball that day ... game should have never been played ... DISGRACEFUL ... NC State beat us cause there HC played their running QB almost the entire 2nd half ... Zaire played one series for us ... i wanted to shoot Kelly ... HIS GAME PLAN NEVER CHANGED ... you would have thought it was a perfect day the way we chicken it all over that day .. the center muffed like 4 snaps ... the final one ended our last drive and Kelly was as usual yelling at him on the sideline ... never have been a huge kelly fan ... that one really turned me off ..
His play as did the O's play got worse quarter by quarter ... it was eerie ... except against Navy and Army ... on D navy was physically outmatched .. army was on both sides of the ball ..
So u may wanna watch all the 2nd halves first and then go back to the 1st halves .. *L* ...
Just starting to believe that this maybe the guy the Browns want.
Call it intuition but I am starting to think that Kizer is the guy that Hue wants.
The Browns may be plotting a strategy whereby they draft Garrett at one then try to move (if necessary) to get Kizer.
They may not have to move to get him at 12 which would be their choice.
However, based upon intel they get regarding Kizer and if the other teams have interest they move to get him with a package that most likely would include 2018 picks.
Other than the info that stated the Browns have put in a lot of time on Kizer I have nothing to base this on.
But when you really watch Kizer it is easy to see that in time this guy could be the real deal. I don't know much about him on the personal front. His character, work ethic, leadership qualities, intelligence etc.
But from the tape you would have to blind to not see his potential. Most of his misgivings seem to be more from lack of experience than capability.
He has a game like Ben. Big strong guy who can make the throws, and has mobility.
Please not Kizer. He is wildly inaccurate makes dumb plays and has a 58% completion rate in college. If we can;t get Jimmy G then I want Watson or Trub.
Maybe I am wrong but I think Hue's preference is big pocket passers. He has coached other types as well but he was the guy who brought Palmer to the Raiders.
He has had plenty of looks at Palmer, Flacco, and Ben.
He knows that top notch pocket passers can utilize the entire field. Receivers can run all route trees. It allows an offense to be complete and balanced.
Hue is a offensive guy. He wants to have an offense that can be explosive and varied.
Kizer is big strong kid. He just turned 21. He is a guy that Hue can mold into what he wants. There is a ton of raw potential.
He is inconsistent. No question about that. At the same time he flashes big talent. He can make true NFL throws.
I would like to know more about him as a leader etc.
Wentz was in control of his team. He played with maturity. There was no question about him as a leader. His mental make-up played a big part in his success as a rookie starter.
I can see what Kizer brings from a physical stand point. But I know little else about him.
He did bring in Palmer who is a big, strong pocket passer.
He did not like Wentz, who is a big, strong pocket passer.
He drafted Pryor who is a great athlete and anything but a pocket passer.
He liked Goff, who has no idea how to read coverages, isn't a great athlete, and doesn't even know where the sun rises. LOL
He brought in RGIII, who takes off out of secure pockets when he hears something or smells sweat. He is the farthest thing from a big, strong pocket passer that I can imagine. Wait, not as much as Manziel, but I think you get my drift.
He then drafts Kessler, who is either afraid to throw the deep ball or is unable to. More than likely, it's both.
Seriously bro............it's damn hard to tell what Hue does like in a QB. I am starting to think he lucked into a couple of situations.
Is he a QB Whisperer or a QB misinterpreter? And no, I did not misspell that word!!! LOL
Is he a QB Whisperer or a QB misinterpreter? And no, I did not misspell that word!!! LOL
No doubt, Hue made some very odd judgments when it comes to the Browns QB position...
Then there is Hue's comment after the draft, when questioned by the media about picking Kessler... "you’ve got to trust me on this one.”
Kessler could improve and likely will, but watching Dak Prescott all year, knowing Hue passed on him in favor of Kessler, had me question Hue's status as a QB guru.
I think its slightly after the parade to berate Hugh for passing on Dak. 32 teams did 3 times. He has benefited from where he went but I think you'd struggle to find many who would have predicted his level of play and success. Good luck to him - maybe this finding a QB lark isn't as hard as we all think (joke obvs!)
As for Cody - he played beyond my expectations and was expected to sit all year. People started judging him as a starter - rightly so perhaps - and he isn't there. Yet. I don't think he was a bad pick at all based on his body of work last season and if he improves he is an asset either as a good backup or serviceable starter. We still need to find a difference maker at the position. I'm still drooling at the play of Rodgers this past weekend. Man,it's a pleasure watching that dude play. "Size matters"
Dak is very impressive. However all I'm saying is - no-one could have predicted his level of play and success projecting from his college play otherwise he wouldn't have gone where he did.
Hey, I wish we had picked him up based on hindsight. It's almost Brady-esque in it's chance - how many 4th round QBs pan out and stay in the league, let alone play at the level he did. Guy is great and his play in coming back was great. He's awesome.
No question who I'd rather have based on the now. When they were drafted - it was a wash, at least for me but I had not seen much of either play. You don't expect to draft a starting QB in the mid rounds without developing them and even then the odds are slim.
However, in each case the circumstances were different.
Last year we really don't know if the decisions were his alone.
Goff and Wentz. We kinda heard that Goff is who "they" liked. But really the trade was motivated by the need of bodies. They wanted the picks. Kessler was a third rounder. Not much more was expected of him other than see how he develops.
Griffin was a matter of him being available at a low risk with the chance Griffin may benefit from being with Hue.
Hue suggested the Pryor move to receiver.
The circumstances now are different. It has been stated that Hue will have more say in the draft and particularly with the quarterback.
So now at least from where we sit; it appears that the call on the quarterback is up to Hue.
I think we have to look at this as a clean slate and the call is his. We know the options available.
Basically Garoppolo in trade and the draft.
He will look hard at all options. His career will depend upon it.
I just have this feeling that Kizer will be his guy.
If he drafts Kizer ... he best make sure he is guaranteed 3 more years here w/o being fired ... he's not even close to ready and may not be after a year of sitting behind someone ... he may not be ready to start for 3 more years ...
U guys thought Cody was bad this year ... if we have to play Kizer next year ... WOW ... u ain't seen nuttin yet ....
If Hue drafts Kizer with either pick in rnd 1 ... IMO it will be the day i knew Hue's ego was going to ruin his HC career ...
Kizer is a physical specimen, been watching the games today. He's definitely a project like Wentz was. Lots of similarities between the two.
People on this board acting like Wentz torched the league last season. He was an average rookie QB, 62% 16TDs 14INT's isn't setting the world on fire. He threw for over 300 yards, 3 times, all losses.
I am warming to Kizer but he is a project, mid to late 1st round QB. He is not ready, but could put up numbers similar to Wentz on a decent team......which we do not have.
This is more about Hue than what I think should happen.
Once these guys declare college is over with.
It is all about what you do when your chance comes.
When I posted this thread (which was before he declared) I stated upfront that Kizer should stay in school. He just turned 21 this month. Trubisky is 23.
Nobody gave Dak a thought when he was drafted. Especially when he was charged with a DUI during the draft process.
Looking at Kizer it becomes about projecting him as a NFL player. Not just about his college career and his college stats.
In the end analysis any of these college players entering the NFL is a question mark. We just don't know.
Part of that is because we don't have access to all the information that becomes available to those who are actually looking.
Between Watson, Kizer and Trubisky all have aspects of their game that you can bring to question.
They could all fail, be great or just be average.
For no particular reason I just think that Kizer maybe Hue's guy.
I have stated that Kizer is the guy I think the Browns are looking at. Of course they are looking at all the prospects. But Kizer fits the prototype.
Have never been able to verify anything about "intangibles".
He may have been at odds with his coach but not much is written about him as a leader. That concerns me.
He has the tools. The question is: what stands in the way of him becoming a true franchise player? If it is just time and coaching well then ok. If he is another Jimmy Clausen type guy?
Teammates and coaches have to respect their quarterback as the team leader. I know only what I see on tape.
He is from my home town and I am a huge ND fan. He fits the mold of a NFL QB and has all the physical tools. After being tossed under the bus by Brian Kelly and losing recruits, some from his former High School, coupled with being told he is a 1st round pick he made the choice to leave. While I 100% agree that he needs another year in school with the right QB coach this kid can be a star. No QB coming out has a 1st round grade, but at least 3 are projected to be taken 1st round. He had the weight of the entire offense on his back, very young players around him, and played well. He needs to learn to throw the ball away more, and get consistent those things can be taught. Size, speed, arm he all has and those can't be. Of the 3, Watson, Mitch and Kizer, Kizer I think has the best chance to be an NFL starter. He is also a really good young man.
Also of note after the season it was said Hue liked Watson as he was in the RG3 mold of duel threat, and he is the guy that drafted Pryor in Oakland. Now that being said I think that all along they are playing the Draft game Kizer is their guy and another local guy, but they want him at 12 not 1.
I am also a ND fan and have seen I think all or most of Kizers games since he took over for Zaire. I am in agreement with you Bonefish on pretty much all of your speculation/ analogy. ND did Kaiser no favors this last season, their inability to defend or even try to run the ball to protect that horrific defense placed ALL of it on his shoulders with a brand new group of receivers. I don't like Brian Kelly and think his arrogance and sideline body language is poison to young players. I think Kaiser has the best physical traits as D Jeremiah and B Brooks have mentioned. Kaiser did have some poor moments that were absolutely on him, BUT all of these guys have that in every draft. I don't think he is ready to play at all this year, But I would welcome him on our roster. I think if Hue developed him he has the physical ability to play in the AFC north. Potential is all we are drafting anyway, after that it's up to the organization and player.
I think Kizer has the highest ceiling of any QB's in this draft, but he's not ready to start day one, can't really say any of them are..problem is Brian Kelly is garbage so it's hard to project how Kizer would do in a legit offense with someone with a brain at the helm. if we can get Kizer in the 2nd I'd say that would be a great pick
Really interested in learning from you guys that are ND fans about Kizer the person.
I know what I see on tape.
Last year Wentz was my guy. He had the skill set but more importantly he was the leader of the team and "he ran" their pro set offense. Wentz was a very mature young man. His character came through on everything he did.
It was clear right off from watching Kizer that he needs snaps. His lack of experience shows. At the same time so does his talent and potential.
What will make or break him will be his ability to learn quickly. He will have to take the bull by the horns and work his butt off. That is what it takes to make it. In addition he has to to have the smarts to adapt to the speed and complexity of the NFL.
Last year it was amazing to see how quickly Dak and Wentz adapted.
If Kizer is cut from the same cloth he has the potential to be really good.
The kid is an all around good kid. Well respected by his high school teamates, comes back to watch the games. Never gets into trouble, well spoken, smart and the kid studies the game. He needs snaps without question but the character is there. He is not a me guy either it's team one of the reason I think he is leaving school early. Kelly has lost the ND locker room with his attitude. Let's remember this is a coach that said he put the entire offense on the shoulders of Kizer a 20 year old kid. Isn't Kelly supposed to be an offensive guy? All that being said if we do draft him, he can't play this year period. Maybe some snaps here and there but not a starter and not with our O-line in it's current state. He is also from my home town and is loved here, family very much involved in the community all are great people not hard to see why the kid has a good head on his shoulders.
I think at least one of the NFL draft analysts rate Kizer as the best prospect.
To me it's all about Hue and who he feels can be the man. If it's Kizer, Trubinsky, Watson, mahomes or JG just get him. I feel a little for Kessler who was tossed in before he was ready and did pretty well. Maybe his limitations are too much to compensate or overcome but it's harsh to just declare his upside or potential null and void where he was arguably the best QB we had all last year. I appreciate the bar wasn't at its highest ...
The reason is we do not know how quickly he will grasp the concepts of the NFL game. Most likely he will need time. However, that does not mean he will not be thrown to the wolves.
The question becomes how will the Browns bring him along?
Will the Browns let him develop while he is learning to be a starter? Will they accept that he will make mistakes?
I think those questions will apply to all the qb's in this draft.
Man, I think he is unbelievably raw and not even close to being ready to play in the NFL. I like his size and other measurables and according to Irish, he is great kid.
The one other thing that bothers me is his accuracy. I was high on him early because of the hype, but I pretty much tuned him out after I saw him so many easy throws so badly.
I'm certainly not an expert on him, though. Hopefully, Diam weighs in on this one.
Is there legitimately any chance he could start game 1.
NOT EVEN CLOSE ..
I've seen every pass he's thrown at ND ...
positives ...
- great athlete that looks to pass first - great arm strength .. can make all the throws - was very productive at times ...
Negatives
- accuracy - mental toughness .. kelly is a pos and treats his players bad on game day on the sidelines .. but this boy wilted like a flower .. - consistency .. each quarter of a game he got worse ..
This kid can do it all .. he has a ton of potential .. he was way to innacurate both years and he was way to inconsistent in year two and he acted like a wuss ..
If it wasn't for the inaccuracy I'd feel much better about him ... the mental stuff ... he's young and kelly just ruined him last year ... so that may not be his true mental make up anymore ... he lived through it once and is older ...
I think it may have been a snowball affect with him and kelly ... and once he lost his confidence it was all over ...
I wouldn't touch him in rnd 1 ... if we do ... if he plays next year you guys are going to long for Cody ... ..
My neighbor is a huge ND fan...so I watched some of their games (mind you not in entirety) I came away with an overhyped QB...whom regressed (mind you college QBs whom regress in college normally don't excel in the NFL)
Biggest thing is he has superb size...which really doesnt mean much as theres a handful or QBs every year with great size whom go very late or undrafted...Then there are some that go very high, or heck even #1 overall...But Kizer I think is a round 4 guy...he will go much higher as QB is the most reached position by far...He has alot of potential...but so does everyone on draft day...Nothing really stood out to me, and he makes some throws which are just dreadful Spergon Wynn esque...I hope he goes to someone else...and I wish him goodluck
I'm just tired of sitting QBs until thy are "ready"
All it causes is problems.
Pick a guy. Start him. Build him up as you go along. While building the team up.
Let him grow with them. Not be standing on the sidelines watching them.
What QBs are you talking about that you are tired of sitting them to get ready?
Actually if you have that luxury of a Bridge QB you get to sit them...and it doesn't have to be for the entire year. Just where he is ready and has experienced how to prepare for NFL games and prepare for a game plan by watching said Bridge QB...obviously if the Bridge QB is winning you let him learn some more.
Its ok to sit Garappolo right? But just who did we sit...BQ? as it turned out we found out why he sat.
Manziel? the kid didn't know what a playbook was.
Kessler through no decision process was starting by game 3 as a 3rd round pick. I think you might be tired of the THOUGHT of sitting him. Again I got what you said. But its best to let him learn more during the season and sitting him does not mean all year. I'm pretty sure ELI sat a few games??? and others. Brady sat a season and a half. Hey if you got no other options...sure put him in the fire. I don't get the "All it causes is problems." Those that sit and fail just pretty much suck...jmho
Kid has potential to be great but he needs two years t be rebuilt from the neck up. I do however feel he will be the first QB off the board. The physical combined with his high dergree of football Intelligence is gonna sell.
Kid has potential to be great but he needs two years t be rebuilt from the neck up. I do however feel he will be the first QB off the board. The physical combined with his high dergree of football Intelligence is gonna sell.
Where do u get the high degree of football intelligence from?
Kid has potential to be great but he needs two years t be rebuilt from the neck up. I do however feel he will be the first QB off the board. The physical combined with his high dergree of football Intelligence is gonna sell.
Where do u get the high degree of football intelligence from?
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Originally Posted By: Mourgrym
Kid has potential to be great but he needs two years t be rebuilt from the neck up. I do however feel he will be the first QB off the board. The physical combined with his high dergree of football Intelligence is gonna sell.
Where do u get the high degree of football intelligence from?
I have been told the kid will blow you away when you sit him down infront of the chalk board and when you break down film with him. Now it may be a case where he is an A plus student in the theory of swimming but drowns when he jumps in the pool
When I watch him, the most positive thing I see is arm talent. He throws the ball well.
It seemed to me that he was a great prospect then something changed in his head.
I tried to ask Diam what in the heck caused such an apparent regression. He didn't respond. What I've read of his stuff is that Kizer "isn't ready."
At the beginning of the year, I thought he looked ready. But, it seems something happened. Mentally, things changed.
I'm sorry skool ... not a fan of ignoring direct questions ...
his head .... that's all Kelly ... u could see the snowball get stated in week 2 when he came off the field after every series in the 2nd half ...
same thing the next few weeks .. not all of them but most of them ..
and by week 7 you could see the snowball had turned into an avalanche .... Kizer would go way down the sideline coming off the field to avoid him whenever the drive didn't end in a TD ...
he was visibly shaken more than once ... u could tell by his body language ...
he regressed big-time and I blame a lot of it on Kelly ..
his accuracy is what got him in trouble ... if he was more accurate ... it would have resulted in less of Kelly being a douche ..
With all the uncertainty about the QB position - the trade for Osweiler - so much talk about how great next year's QB draft class is going to be.....
It got me thinking about how high so many were early in the season on Kizer. People talked about him as a #1 overall pick.
Speculative Question - if Kizer had not come out. Where would we be projecting him to be drafted next year? Would he be in the mix with Darnold and Rosen???
If so - then is he more or less NFL ready with a year more in college or a year riding the pine in the NFL?
If Kelly messed this kid's head up - can it be straightened with good coaching? He's got great size and mobility but appears to be a pass first QB. . . . I guess I am wondering if we think Kizer is worth #12 - with a view to him sitting for a whole year.
With all the uncertainty about the QB position - the trade for Osweiler - so much talk about how great next year's QB draft class is going to be.....
It got me thinking about how high so many were early in the season on Kizer. People talked about him as a #1 overall pick.
Speculative Question - if Kizer had not come out. Where would we be projecting him to be drafted next year? Would he be in the mix with Darnold and Rosen???
If so - then is he more or less NFL ready with a year more in college or a year riding the pine in the NFL?
If Kelly messed this kid's head up - can it be straightened with good coaching? He's got great size and mobility but appears to be a pass first QB. . . . I guess I am wondering if we think Kizer is worth #12 - with a view to him sitting for a whole year.
I wasn't in that group ... i said from the beginning of the year that there was no way in hell he was going to come out cause he wasn't ready ... i didn't realize that Kelly would make him a mental midget and drive him away ... *L* ...
If he waited til next year to come out .. he may not of even started at ND next year ... so that makes it hard to project where he would have been drafted ..... we got a kid thats going to be a jr. this year that red shirted last year as a sophomore ... we used him his freshman year when Zaire went down .. he was the back up so Kelly gave him some reps in blowouts in case he had to play later due to injury ...
That makes it real hard to predict where he would have gone ... hell he may have went undrafted ...
Zaire couldn't hit the water from a ship at sea .. he is one of the most innacurate QB's I've ever seen ... if Kelly had anyone but him as a back up last year ... Kizer would have been benched about 1/3rd - 1/2 way through the season ...
My brother did not like Kizer's accuracy his first year .. i made excuses for it ... turns out he was right ... he was really inaccurate last year ... its a problem ...
The only thing I can tell U .. if we take him at 12 or quite frankly with our 2nd rnd picks this year ... were going to end up regretting it ...
Funny part is ... everyone talks about a college QB needs to start for 2 years or they wil fail .. well Kizer meets that standard ... problem is .. the QUALITY of his starts his 2nd year .. there were maybe 3 good ones .. and there were 4 or 5 HORRIFIC ONES ....
Speculative Question - if Kizer had not come out. Where would we be projecting him to be drafted next year? Would he be in the mix with Darnold and Rosen???
IMHO, the only reason he came out this year was because there was no guarantee he would have started next year had he returned to school. Ending your last season as the backup is bad enough, but to do it for another season on top of that would be a killer. So, had he gone back to school it could have decimated his draft value.
CAP - Kizer didn't end last year as the back up ... he was "benched" in a game about 2/3rds of the way through the season ... he never missed a start and took every snap in the USC game to end the season ...
He would have been benched if we had a QB that could of hit the broad side of a barn last year ...
CAP - Kizer didn't end last year as the back up ... he was "benched" in a game about 2/3rds of the way through the season ... he never missed a start and took every snap in the USC game to end the season ...
He would have been benched if we had a QB that could of hit the broad side of a barn last year ...
Thanks, Diam, for the correction. My bad, did not mean to misstate things.
With all the uncertainty about the QB position - the trade for Osweiler - so much talk about how great next year's QB draft class is going to be.....
It got me thinking about how high so many were early in the season on Kizer. People talked about him as a #1 overall pick.
Speculative Question - if Kizer had not come out. Where would we be projecting him to be drafted next year? Would he be in the mix with Darnold and Rosen???
If so - then is he more or less NFL ready with a year more in college or a year riding the pine in the NFL?
If Kelly messed this kid's head up - can it be straightened with good coaching? He's got great size and mobility but appears to be a pass first QB. . . . I guess I am wondering if we think Kizer is worth #12 - with a view to him sitting for a whole year.
I wasn't in that group ... i said from the beginning of the year that there was no way in hell he was going to come out cause he wasn't ready ... i didn't realize that Kelly would make him a mental midget and drive him away ... *L* ...
If he waited til next year to come out .. he may not of even started at ND next year ... so that makes it hard to project where he would have been drafted ..... we got a kid thats going to be a jr. this year that red shirted last year as a sophomore ... we used him his freshman year when Zaire went down .. he was the back up so Kelly gave him some reps in blowouts in case he had to play later due to injury ...
That makes it real hard to predict where he would have gone ... hell he may have went undrafted ...
Zaire couldn't hit the water from a ship at sea .. he is one of the most innacurate QB's I've ever seen ... if Kelly had anyone but him as a back up last year ... Kizer would have been benched about 1/3rd - 1/2 way through the season ...
My brother did not like Kizer's accuracy his first year .. i made excuses for it ... turns out he was right ... he was really inaccurate last year ... its a problem ...
The only thing I can tell U .. if we take him at 12 or quite frankly with our 2nd rnd picks this year ... were going to end up regretting it ...
Funny part is ... everyone talks about a college QB needs to start for 2 years or they wil fail .. well Kizer meets that standard ... problem is .. the QUALITY of his starts his 2nd year .. there were maybe 3 good ones .. and there were 4 or 5 HORRIFIC ONES ....
Thanks Diam - gonna say I am gonna scratch him from the list. I like smart QB;s that see the whole field and accuracy is the second priority. Sounds like Kizer doesn't do well on either count and is too big a risk unless he's there round 2.
The ugly truth about the quarterbacks in this draft is: there is no separation between the top guys. They all have pros and cons in their game.
Kizer has some good things going for him and some bad.
The main issue with Kizer is consistency with his accuracy. Hard to tell if it is lack of experience or if what you see is what you get.
Trubisky has a small sample size but as far as what he has done in the limited games he has played: of the top three he probably was the most consistent.
Watson has the resume of a winner. He has played in big games and played well. But he is not without flaws. He also has been inaccurate at times and has to many int's. Adding to that he also runs early. But he has avoided injury.
So again none of these guys stand alone as the consensus top guy.
The ugly truth about the quarterbacks in this draft is: there is no separation between the top guys. They all have pros and cons in their game.
Kizer has some good things going for him and some bad.
The main issue with Kizer is consistency with his accuracy. Hard to tell if it is lack of experience or if what you see is what you get.
Trubisky has a small sample size but as far as what he has done in the limited games he has played: of the top three he probably was the most consistent.
Watson has the resume of a winner. He has played in big games and played well. But he is not without flaws. He also has been inaccurate at times and has to many int's. Adding to that he also runs early. But he has avoided injury.
So again none of these guys stand alone as the consensus top guy.
What stands out to me ...
The only flaw MITCH has is his experience .... not an actual "flaw" in his game ...
Jets held a private workout with Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer.
They will also work out UNC's Mitchell Trubisky along with likely all of the other top quarterbacks, but it is notable considering GM Mike Maccagnan recently said signing Josh McCown will not stop the Jets from drafting a quarterback. Even after spending (wasting) a second-round pick on Christian Hackenberg last April, it will be slightly surprising if New York does not take another swing at quarterback this year.
If Hue and co. Have 3 or 4 years .... Kizer MAY BE the man then ....
And thats MAY BE ....
Because of the things Mahomes can do he is a bright shiny object that gets your attention and could turn into gold ...
Kizer has all the physical traits that make u look like a bright shiny object that gets all your attention but he will more than likely turn into fools gold ...
If throwing the ball wasn’t a requisite part of being an NFL quarterback, Kizer would be one of the best prospects the NFL has seen in years. It sounds funny but a lot of being a successful quarterback has nothing to do with throwing the ball. Kizer can be slow to process coverages at times but in general his timing with his receivers and decision making is excellent. He will sit in clean pockets and pick apart coverages or get rid of the ball instantly when the defense is more aggressive.
Thanks Diam - gonna say I am gonna scratch him from the list. I like smart QB;s that see the whole field and accuracy is the second priority. Sounds like Kizer doesn't do well on either count and is too big a risk unless he's there round 2.
Not only round 2 - but 52 instead of 33. We'll see. I think everyone is rooting for him instead of rooting for their pre-draft prediction to be right. If Hue can be the Anti-Kelly .... we'll have a shot at making him an NFL starter.
Thanks Diam - gonna say I am gonna scratch him from the list. I like smart QB;s that see the whole field and accuracy is the second priority. Sounds like Kizer doesn't do well on either count and is too big a risk unless he's there round 2.
Not only round 2 - but 52 instead of 33. We'll see. I think everyone is rooting for him instead of rooting for their pre-draft prediction to be right. If Hue can be the Anti-Kelly .... we'll have a shot at making him an NFL starter.
Most posters root for the players that are drafted even if their predictions were for someone else. There are a few that make every post to fit their own self made agenda. But, I think everyone likes to point it out when they made a correct prediction.
Could the board get a consensus, someone establish the noodleness of his arm, the work of his feet, the mechanics of his throwing motion, his abilities on short outs, his accuracy on the deep ball, the size of his hands, and whatever else I'm forgetting before his career (and the arguments) start/starts.
I think a guy in his position gets 6 full games participated in, before I start holding things against him, (unless there's an offseason in there). But that's just me.
Oh, Is it De Shone, or De Shawn? pronunciation?
If He's reading this, Beat Pittsburgh! By Any means!
..
