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Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:33 AM
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.

This 43 minute video will tell you truth, it uses all the official investigations and factual proof of this case...its not what the news is telling you. If your against anti-intellectualism then put your money where your mouth is, put aside your racial bias, and listen to some unbiased truth.



Ask yourself a question? Is this profile of a "good kid" Does this sound like a guy out on a jog? Why is a jogger wearing work boots? Why wasn't this guy locked up in prison already as this is obviously a high level felony. In what world does someone 19 years old bringing a loaded gun to a school possibly get probation and be allowed to walk the streets in the 1st place. This man was obviously dangerous...good people don't bring loaded guns to a school or school event illegally.

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:58 AM
I listened to 2:40 of this garbage. Which chan did you find this guy on? 4 or 8?
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 04:26 AM
Go to Stormfront where this trash belongs.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 04:35 AM
A live look at dumb.

Posted By: Clemdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 06:10 AM
Quote:
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism".


No one actually 'complained' about this feature at all.

This seems like it's your own personal crusade, tilting at windmills you've conjured for yourself.

Knock yadamnself out.
**yaaaaaawnnnn**
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 11:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
A live look at dumb.



Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, and the guy never says a single thing in that video that would be considered racist by a reasonable person.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 11:32 AM
Quote:
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.

This 43 minute video will tell you truth


One might surmise that using a 43 minute video as the the undisputed "truth" is the very definition of 'anti-intellectualism."

I was trying to provide an example of this when I used the football comparison on Clem's thread, but this is a great example of how folks have an opinion, find one source that supports that opinion, and then equates that to the "truth."

I don't know the truth in the Ahmaud Arbery case, but I can guarantee that folks on both sides will use one piece of evidence to support the "truth" that only exists in their biased minds.
Posted By: mac Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 11:56 AM
KOB...first, you are better than this....

WHAT LAW DID ARBERY BREAK THAT JUSTIFIED HIS DEATH?



Posted By: Damanshot Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 12:22 PM
Did you see the video of the shooting?
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 12:53 PM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Go to Stormfront where this trash belongs.


whatever Stormfront is. I have no idea what your going on about
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 12:53 PM
Originally Posted By: mac
KOB...first, you are better than this....

WHAT LAW DID ARBERY BREAK THAT JUSTIFIED HIS DEATH?





I'll explain in my next post
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 12:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Did you see the video of the shooting?



Yes, but that video doesn't tell the whole story and omits many material facts.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 01:37 PM
Ok, so I am going to explain this as plainly as I can. I am prefacing this that race has nothing to do with this. I'd feel the same way regardless of what race Mr. Arbery or the McMicheals were.

So from District Attnorney Geroge E Barnhill we have the following:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/...imized/full.pdf

Quote:

First I am the current elected District Attorney for the Waycross Circuit, I have worked as a criminal prosecutor for some 36 years. As an Assistant District Attorney in Waycross and Brunswick , as Chief Assistant in Waycross for 20 years and served as the District Attorney the last 5 years ; I have been actively involved in over 100 murder cases and assisted other prosecutors with at least 100 more. I have no idea how many Aggravated Assault cases involving gunshots and wounds of all types; Plus I have attended countless schools, classes and seminars on criminal prosecution and criminal acts and evidence. Myself and one of my Senior Trial Attorneys have reviewed the evidence extensively and concur on all points.


Now Mr. Barnhill is a qualified Expert prosecutor, has served in this capacity for over 36 years, has prosecuted over 100 murder cases, assisted in prosecuting over 100 more, along with countless other crimes. Its fair to say Mr. Barnhill as an expert in Georgia Criminal Law.

Quote:

Second As to the case at hand: It is my professional belief the autopsy confirms what we had already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately at the scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 at the briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time. We do not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.


Now in his professional opinion along with the opinions of his Senior Trial Attorneys in his office, the state had no grounds to bring charges against the McMicheal's under Georgia Law. Furthermore, they had witness statements from people other than the McMicheal's confirming the sequence of events that lead to this tragedy.

Quote:

Third It appears Travis McMichael ,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/ telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal,

OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”


As seen in this new surveillance tape released yesterday which was filmed minutes before Arbery was shot, we see him ILLEGALLY entering a Home he has no business entering. This constitutes a crime. A felony in many juristictions. This constitutes 1st hand probable cause. Even if the home is under construction he still has no legal right entering the place, and its a crime for him to enter without permission. Do you let any Tom, Dick, or Harry just enter your home freely and walk around and do whatever they want? I don't think so.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gbi-...D0k9cr80R7CTnL/

The McMicheals and other neighbors saw Mr. Arbery enter that home illegally. At this point, the McMicheals were acting LAWFULLY under Georgia Law to pursue Mr. Arbery and to detain him until the authorities arrived. See OCGA 17 -4 -60 which I included above.

Quote:

Fourth It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had firearms being carried in an open fashion . The investigation shows neither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. Under Georgia Law this is legal open carry .

OCGA 16- 11- 126 Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without ta valid weapons carry license. (b ) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.”


The moment Mr. Arbery entered that residence, He gave the McMicheal's the legal authority to detain him. Furthermore, their carrying of firearms was perfectly LAWFUL under Georgia Law. The McMicheal's were acting LAWFULLY under the enacted laws of the State of Georgia. That is the only thing that matters in this case. Not race, not bias, not anything, simply the law and nothing more. Law can not be administered justly if emotion is allowed to poison the process. The prosecutors office has to approach every cases with solid basis in the law and this case does not meet those criteria.

Quote:

Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.

OCGA 16 - 3 - 21 Use of Force in Defense, once confronted with a deadly force situation an individual is allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves or others OCGA 16 - 3- 23 . 1Georgia' s No Duty to Retreat Law , an individual is not required to back away from or submit to an attack;

OCGA 16 - 3- 24 [b ] The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is no tjustified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

OCGA 16 - 3- 24 .2 A person properly and legally defending themselves is immune from prosecution

For the above and foregoing reasons, itis our conclusion there is insufficient probable cause to issue arrest warrants at this time. As to any further issues on whether to present this to a Glynn County Grand jury, that will have to wait for the next District Attorney s review . Please consider this an OPEN file until that decision is made and restrict the release of any information under Georgia Open Records Act requests.


Now we can see that the prosecutors office and the police done an extensive investigation into this case, and came to the conclusion that they did not have sufficent evidence to charge this case.

Furthermore, Mr. Arbery was shot in self defense because he attempted to wrestle a gun away from Mr. McMicheal and assaulted him and the gun went off killing Mr. Arbery. Mr. Arbery "was the aggressor" in this case because Mr. Arbery refused to comply with a lawful order of stopping and waiting for the police to arrive under Georgia Citizen Arrest Law. The order Mr. McMicheal gave Mr. Arbery to stop was LAWFUL and carried the full weight of the law of the state of Georgia. He refused and then proceeded to attack Mr. McMicheal who was acting lawfully, therefore this is a case of self defense.

Al Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to. Mr. McMicheal spent decades as an investigator for the prosecutors office, he was very familiar with the law, he knew it was lawful for him to pursue and detain Mr. Arbery after seeing him illegally enter that house. McMicheal was also the one who nailed Mr. Arbery at the age of 19 for bringing a loaded pistol to a high school basketball game. So the motive is there for Mr. Arbery to attack as he obviously recognized Mr. McMicheal as the man who prosecuted him, and he knew he was made and would be going to prison hence his refusal to comply.

Look, I don't like it anymore than anyone else that this young man got shot. In my opinion, the McMicheals should have stayed inside their truck and simply followed Mr. Arbery to where ever he going and then alerted police. However, that does not change the fact that the McMicheals were acting lawfully, they had the legal right to ask Mr. Arbery to stop & to detain him until police arrived, they had the legal right to carry weapons under Georgia Law, and Mr. Arbery attacked Mr. McMicheal during execution of a lawful citizen's arrest. This is self defense plain and simple.

The laws are set up for a reason. In this case, the law actually served its purpose by empowering citizens to detain a criminal until police arrived and defend themselves in the case such suspected criminal attacked them.

Folks are only being emotional about this because of race. When looking at the facts of this case, there is no way a jury can convict. To be frank, I don't even see a Grand Jury indicting.

Lastly, there is no conspiracy theory that they were trying to cover this up. Read the prosecutors letter, the case was to remain OPEN and it was to be reviewed at the next District Attorney Review by him and the rest of the prosecutors office. So it was still pending, the Coronavirus just held things up a bit.

We have to remove emotion when looking at things like this. Considering all the circumstances, the McMicheals were justified by the law, and Mr. Arbery refused to comply with a lawful citizens arrest order and proceeded to attack a man, the law says Mr. Arbery is the aggressor, and the law says Mr. McMicheal has the legal right to self defense.

A jury will come to the same conclusion if it gets that far.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 01:43 PM
Please understand IMO i think both of these guys should be charged with Manslaughter and do 10 years or so. However, that's not what the Georgia Law says and you can't convict someone on things that exist outside the scope of the law.

Even though this is a lawful situation, it still sucks all around for all parties involved.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 02:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
A live look at dumb.



Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, and the guy never says a single thing in that video that would be considered racist by a reasonable person.


More on your guy. What gets typed in the search engine to actually come across a video by Stefan Molyneaux? Yikes.





https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 02:19 PM
SPL is a not even remotely unbiased. Its nothing more than a far left mouthpiece

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/southern-poverty-law-center-bias-hate-group-labels-scam/

Furthermore, I never searched for this video, it was forwarded to me by someone else. I didn't even know who this guy was so I didn't have some preconceived opinion. He sounded like he presenting a logical conversation with facts and asking questions, but I guess thats too inconvenient for you to even entertain observing isn't it?

If you don't want to watch it, fine, I typed up and provided links to the official investigation that was done on the case. If you would actually take the time to watch the video, you would see he says nothing of the sorts that is even remotely racist, what he does is present the official facts of the investigation in this case.

Everything is "racist" anymore. You can't have a logical discussion about anything anymore because everyone shouts racist.

My post and links above going over the offical evidence in the case isn't one bit racist, and under the law it paints a very bad picture of Mr. Arbery...but who am i fooling? the left on this board is not interest in the truth nor whats lawful they are only interest in pushing an agenda and hating Trump. Nothing else matters to them.

Posted By: Damanshot Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 02:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Did you see the video of the shooting?



Yes, but that video doesn't tell the whole story and omits many material facts.


MMM,, Actually that's a pile of BS. it shows the killing, what the hell else is there.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 02:36 PM
I think the justification used by the DA (as explained in your post) to NOT charge these two is a miscarriage of justice. Arbery plainly entered and under construction dwelling with a truck in the drive and left empty handed. He could have been looking for a drink of water, wanting to ask the workers for that or anything else (a business card, directions, etc.) would not have been against the law. Over the years I personally have had many strangers enter onto job sites like that. The last thing I would have thought to do is chase them down with a gun in hand. I don't buy into the good ole boy extensive investigation, but their lawyer can and will get a chance to run this past the judge or jury in their murder trials.

I watched the same videos and I saw what appeared to be a cold blooded murder in the first one. Now watching this one today (the first I am aware of it existing) I see no crime being committed by Arbery, especially one justifying a killing. These men made a conscious decision to take loaded guns with them. They could just have as easily stopped Arbery without the guns and asked him what he was doing in the home under construction. A camera on a phone would provide more evidence for REAL POLICE and nobody would have died. If the men were worried about being killed themselves, they should never have confronted him, just followed and called the police...

I could see somebody calling it trespassing or illegal entry, but no other crime could be proven from what I saw, certainly not one worth the man's life unless you place no value on his life because he looks different than those living in the neighborhood.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 02:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Go to Stormfront where this trash belongs.


whatever Stormfront is. I have no idea what your going on about


Really, you wanna quote anything from Stormfront?

Quote:
Stormfront
Internet site
Description
Stormfront is a white nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic, Holocaust denialist, and neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. In addition to its promotion of Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in the propagation of Islamophobia.


this site says that the holocaust didn't happen.... contrary to all that shows it did.

You gotta be a fool to think it didn't happen... Just because it's fitting in with your own truth....
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:01 PM


Quote:

19-year-old indicted for carrying handgun

A Glynn County man has been indicted for allegedly bringing a handgun to Brunswick High School’s campus in December 2013 during a basketball game between the school’s crosstown rival, Glynn Academy.

Ahmaud Marquez Arbery, who was 19 at the time, was indicted Jan. 28 for allegedly carrying a Big Bear .380 caliber pistol with him when attempting to make entry into the Dec. 3, 2013 basketball game.

Glynn County School police said at the time that an officer noticed a gun in Arbery’s waistband, and he ran when the officer attempted to stop him. Officers put the campus in a lockdown mode during the foot chase.

In the course of the chase, one school resource officer fell and fractured his hand.

Arbery is now facing charges in Glynn County Superior Court of carrying a weapon within certain school areas, carrying a weapon without a license and three counts of obstructing an officer.

https://thebrunswicknews.com/news/local_...5a35662fba.html



Im going to leave with this.

1. Mr Arbery at the age of 19 was arrested for bringing a loaded pistol to a high school basketball game. Now what do you logically think he was up to bringing a gun there? Is it fair to assume he was obviously up to no good. He knew it was illegal to bring a gun there, yet he done it anyways.

Its safe to assume he was planning a mass shooting or was planning to shoot and hurt people. Only a no good SOB and a coward takes a gun into a high school basketball game with a bunch of defenseless children. this man was obviously dangerous and should have been locked up behind bars in the 1st place.

Go ahead and take his side though, because its all about race eh? pay no mind to this mans violent criminal history and gun criminal past that obviously shows him to be a threat to soceity.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Go to Stormfront where this trash belongs.


whatever Stormfront is. I have no idea what your going on about


Really, you wanna quote anything from Stormfront?

Quote:
Stormfront
Internet site
Description
Stormfront is a white nationalist, white supremacist, antisemitic, Holocaust denialist, and neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. In addition to its promotion of Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in the propagation of Islamophobia.


this site says that the holocaust didn't happen.... contrary to all that shows it did.

You gotta be a fool to think it didn't happen... Just because it's fitting in with your own truth....


Of course the Holocaust happened. Infact a lady that used to live in my town survived the Holocaust, she was in one of those camps as a little kid. She used to tell us stories when we were kids at church. It was a miracle she even survived. I would never for a second ever question that.

It sounds like Stormfront is a bunch of worthless pieces of trash. Hating someone based on race or anything else is not only petty, its unchristian like and i refuse to do so.

Please understand, I am only looking at this case from a legal perspective in how the law applies in Georgia, no other factors.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:18 PM
His record, and I suspect there was no conviction in that case, has ZERO to do with him being gunned down. Smearing the man does not make what happened here any less tragic, it only implies his life was somehow less valuable due to previous allegations. That would be like me putting two and two together from your sources and previous posts and assuming you are a bigot of epic proportions at minimum or a full blown white supremacists on the other side of the scale. Personally I think your sources suck ass and you surround yourself with an alt-right feedback loop that makes you think your posts are mainstream. I think at heart you are probably a decent dude but your political views paint a different picture that I'm not sure you completely grasp.
Posted By: jfanent Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 03:46 PM
Quote:
AlL Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to.


It's not that simple. Nobody with any amount of common sense is going to stop in their tracks and comply with the looks of those 2 chasing him while brandishing weapons. At that point, fight or flight is on...I don't care what color you are.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 04:42 PM
Quote:
its unchristian like


...and yet here you are casting the first stone on a black man.
Quote:
John 8:6-8 New International Version (NIV)
6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground

Link
-----------------
I should dig and see what your take was on Trayvon Martin. I'm sure there's some nuggets in your history...

Time to go look for receipts. Hopefully they aren't hidden away by your crusade to call Mangini Cartman, either.

I'll be back.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 05:15 PM
RECEIPT TIME

Here you are advocating for locking kids up in cages.

Defending racist statements such as "go back to where you came from".

Your poor opinion of the palestinian people.

More nonsense towards undocumented migrant children

Calling a minority similar to Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc

Immediately dehumanizing migrants

....and before you say you're not something, I'll provide you some definitons.

Racism:
Quote:
discrimination or hatred based on race

Link

You sure harbor a lot of hate against undocumented migrants.

I would sure like to see your views on undocumented migrants that committed genocide against an Indigenous culture!

Prejudice:
Quote:
an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

Link

You sure like to judge based on what you don't know. How much do you know about minority issues, the struggles of undocumented migrants in their own country, or how much it time and money it costs to enter the country?
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 05:22 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
His record, and I suspect there was no conviction in that case, has ZERO to do with him being gunned down. Smearing the man does not make what happened here any less tragic, it only implies his life was somehow less valuable due to previous allegations. That would be like me putting two and two together from your sources and previous posts and assuming you are a bigot of epic proportions at minimum or a full blown white supremacists on the other side of the scale. Personally I think your sources suck ass and you surround yourself with an alt-right feedback loop that makes you think your posts are mainstream. I think at heart you are probably a decent dude but your political views paint a different picture that I'm not sure you completely grasp.


He was currently on probation for that gun crime, and Mr. McMicheal was the investigator that busted Abery on those gun related charges at that school during his time as a investigastor for the DA's office.

I appreciate you saying I am a decent dude. I try to be, and I am sure you are too.

I will say right here for everyone to see:

1. I don't think those guys should have confronted him.
2. I don't think those guys should have left their proprty with those guns.
3. I think both of these guys are guilty of manslaughter because they "Created a condition of negligent loss of life" by confronting this man with guns.

I don't think these guys should just walk away from this. Had they just stayed in their vehicle and simply followed him and alerted the police to his whereabouts that would have been enough.

I am a BIG proponent that guns are only to be used as a shield and self defense, and in my book self-defense is not confronting someone, even if they have commited a crime. Guns are to be used to "egress" a dangerous situation or stand your ground inside your home, not to be going out on the street trying to detain someone.

So yes, both of these guys are guilty of manslaughter, well they would be in any other state...but Georgia is a strange place with some very liberal self defense, open carry, and stand your ground laws that just may allow these two to walk which I honestly think in my personal opinion is BS, but the law in Georgia says otherwise.

I think they should do time for manslaughter, but I just don't see a murder conviction with the way the laws are in Georgia. Sadly even manslaughter is pushing it and i strongly feel thats exactly what they done, but its not up to me. Its up to the law.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 05:33 PM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
RECEIPT TIME

Here you are advocating for locking kids up in cages.

Defending racist statements such as "go back to where you came from".

Your poor opinion of the palestinian people.

More nonsense towards undocumented migrant children

Calling a minority similar to Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc

Immediately dehumanizing migrants

....and before you say you're not something, I'll provide you some definitons.

Racism:
Quote:
discrimination or hatred based on race

Link

You sure harbor a lot of hate against undocumented migrants.

I would sure like to see your views on undocumented migrants that committed genocide against an Indigenous culture!

Prejudice:
Quote:
an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

Link

You sure like to judge based on what you don't know. How much do you know about minority issues, the struggles of undocumented migrants in their own country, or how much it time and money it costs to enter the country?


Being against allowing undocumented illegal immigrants to freely enter our country is NOT being racist nor hating anyone. Its simply following the laws as written.

I never advocated it was ok to put kids in cages. It doesn't make me racist to compare AOC ideas with some pretty crazy Communist dictators of yester years when they seem valid.

It is not racist to not want US tax dollars being spent on illegal immigrant kids education. Im all about spending that money on the citizens of this nations kids, in fact triple it, but to payout to foreign kids who are here against the law? that nonsense, and its not racists, its against our laws.

This is why you can't have meaningful discussion,Every single viewpoint no matter what it is, if it involves a minority its racist if you don't agree with the left. Nothing else matters, either you agree with us or your racist.

Im finished, its obvious you don't want to discuss this in a logical manner.

I don't hate anyone, but I do think our laws should be upheld, and immigrants coming to this country undocumented is illegal, its a crime. That doesn't make me racist.

Take care, I hope you one day learn to not look at everything though the filter of race and evaluate everything as such.

Racism will endure until people stop looking at themselves as members of a group and begin focusing on individual liberty. All people are equal and should be treated the same way, but they won't be until we get past this notion of inherent racial identity which in fact perpetuates racism.

good day
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 05:44 PM
None of anything you brought up is relevant to this incident. There is video. The man didn't steal anything or threaten anyone. You are advocating that murder be legal based on any suspicion by any citizen. That's not how any of this works.
Posted By: BpG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 05:46 PM
This is a perfect example of me hating both sides of this debate.

"Killed for jogging while black"

Vs.

"He was trespassing and had a record"



Both of these lines are for simpletons. It's a complex situation with a lot of variables that ended in a man being at worst murder and at best manslaughter. You can't run trespassers down in the frickin street and shoot them, point blank period. Shouldn't even be trying to detain people for trespassing, these two idiots should go to jail for no other reason than being idiots. Oh they also murdered a man.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 07:43 PM
At the VERY least, you can't walk up on someone brandishing a weapon and then argue self-defense.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 07:44 PM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
AlL Mr. Arbery had to do was comply, and he choose not to.


It's not that simple. Nobody with any amount of common sense is going to stop in their tracks and comply with the looks of those 2 chasing him while brandishing weapons. At that point, fight or flight is on...I don't care what color you are.


You do know they pleaded with him several times to stop? They cut him off a few times and tried to talk to him and he refused...if their intent was to kill him, why would they go to all the trouble to try and get him to stop on a public street so they could talk to him? Why would they call the police and tell Mr. Arbery numerous times the police was on their way if they wanted to murder him? The fight or flight argument doesn't fly here because they had no intentions of killing him, and he knew the police were on their way there...so why flip out and snap? These are legitimate questions, and ones any defense attorney worth their salt is going to bring up.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
None of anything you brought up is relevant to this incident. There is video. The man didn't steal anything or threaten anyone.


Do you have proof he didn't take anything? If so i'd like to see it. your "assuming" he didn't.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You are advocating that murder be legal based on any suspicion by any citizen. That's not how any of this works.


Its not murder in this case if a crime/felony is being committed and said citizen is attacked by the suspect he is lawfully attempting to detain until authorities arrive:

See the following Georgia Laws:

Quote:
OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”


So in this case, video surveillance and 1st hand eye witnesses accounts of him entering that said resident constitutes reasonable and probable suspicion for a private citizen to detain someone under Georgia Law.

Now lets see how Georgia Law DEFINES Burglary shall we?

Quote:

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2014/title-16/chapter-7/article-1/section-16-7-1

Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-7-1 (2014)
(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) "Dwelling" means any building, structure, or portion thereof which is designed or intended for occupancy for residential use.

(2) "Railroad car" shall also include trailers on flatcars, containers on flatcars, trailers on railroad property, or containers on railroad property.

(b) A person commits the offense of burglary in the first degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure designed for use as the dwelling of another. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the first degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. Upon the second conviction for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two nor more than 20 years. Upon the third and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the first degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 25 years.

(c) A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Upon the second and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the second degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than eight years.

(d) Upon a fourth and all subsequent convictions for a crime of burglary in any degree, adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.


So as we can see From Georgia Law, Arbery entering that "House under construction" Constitutes a "Dwelling" under Georgia Law, and entering a dwelling without permission with intent to steal or commit a felony constitutes felony burglary. So this means Arbery was a "Felony burglary Suspect" under Georgia Law which satisfies OCGA 17-4-60.

In this case Arbery was "suspected" of Burglary so a Citizen of Georgia had the legal right under OCGA 17 -4 -60 To detain him.

As for the guns, we again refer to Georgia Law:

Quote:

OCGA 16- 11- 126 Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without ta valid weapons carry license. (b ) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.”


The McMicheals were legally allowed under Georgia Law OCGA 16- 11- 126 to Open Carry those weapons. Its NOT considered Brandishing under Georgia Law because of this:

Quote:

O.C.G.A. 16-11-102
16-11-102. Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another

A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.


Since the McMicheals had "Legal Justification" under OCGA 17 -4 -60 its not brandishing a weapon therefore it isn't a crime.

Listen PitDawg, I think these laws Georgia has are insane. In every other state, what happened to Mr. Arbery would probably be murder or Manslaughter, but Georgia, as you can see by their laws, is a whole different animal.

As much as it crazy to say this, under Georgia Law the moment Mr. Arbery entered that "Dwelling" without permission he became a burglary suspect under Georgia Law, and that empowered citizens to take action against him they would otherwise not legally be allowed to do.

The older gentlemen worked in the DA's office for many years, he obviously knew the law in Georgia and knew the moment he entered that house he was legally allowed to pursue him.

To muddy the waters worse, its not even clear who shot Arbery:

From the DA's Office:

Quote:

Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.


Things are not as cut and dry as the video tries to tell you. Folks will see what they want to see, and are not looking at the multitudes of evidence presented by the DA Office and citing actual laws on the books in Georgia backing their position.

The crux is according to the DA office, the moment Mr Arbery enterted that dwelling he became a "Burglary suspect" since someone called it in to 911. Under Georgia Law those citizens were empowered by the law to pursue and attempt to detain him, even with guns under Open Carry Law. Since Mr. Arbery was now a "Burglary suspect" him attacking Mr. McMicheal with that shotgun makes Mr. Arbery the aggressor, prior to that the McMicheals never laid one finger on Mr. Arbery, Mr. Arbery was the one who started the physical altercation, and with the insane laws Georgia has, what would be manslaughter in most other states becomes self defense.

I don't like this anymore then anyone else, but the law is the law. Georgia probably needs to re-write a few of those laws to be a bit more reasonable. the citizen arrest thing probably needs to go.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
At the VERY least, you can't walk up on someone brandishing a weapon and then argue self-defense.


In this case, yes they can:

Quote:

O.C.G.A. 16-11-102
16-11-102. Pointing or aiming gun or pistol at another

A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he intentionally and without legal justification points or aims a gun or pistol at another, whether the gun or pistol is loaded or unloaded.


But they have legal justification under OCGA 17 -4 -60 because they observed Mr. Arbery entering a dwelling without permission which is classified as felony burglary under Georgia Law, so he became a "Burglary suspect" at that point and in conjunction with Georgia open carry laws, citizen arrest laws, and self defense laws had the full weight of the law on their side to pursue him and attempt to detain him.

Quote:

OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion


I don't like it anymore than you, I think these laws in Georgia are nuts, but they are what they are till they are changed.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 08:17 PM
Just imagine justifying the murder of a minority.

What a world we live in these days...
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: BpG
This is a perfect example of me hating both sides of this debate.

"Killed for jogging while black"

Vs.

"He was trespassing and had a record"



Both of these lines are for simpletons. It's a complex situation with a lot of variables that ended in a man being at worst murder and at best manslaughter. You can't run trespassers down in the frickin street and shoot them, point blank period. Shouldn't even be trying to detain people for trespassing, these two idiots should go to jail for no other reason than being idiots. Oh they also murdered a man.


If it were only that simple

Quote:

Fifth The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.


The video doesn't show you Mr. McMicheal pulling the trigger shooting him, the video shows Mr. Arbery attacking Mr. McMicheal and the two struggling over the gun and it going off. They are not even sure who pulled the trigger, it is just as likely that Mr. Arbery shot himself by pulling on the shotgun. You cna't really tell from the video.

Murder is a legal definition, and with the "evidence we have right now" we can't conclude this is murder. As i have said the laws in Georgia are MUCH different than most other states when it comes to this kinda stuff. I personally will say I think they are nuts, but they are what they are.

I think its prudent to wait till everything else comes out at trial if we get that far. In terms of a defense attnorney, they have A LOT to work with here with the laws in Georgia to probably make these guys walk where in any other state they would probably fry.

It will be interesting to see where this case goes.

As I have said, I think those guys whould have just followed him and stayed in the vehicle and lets the cops confront him instead of trying to play cop, but blame the Georgia government for passing over the top citizen arrest laws.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/11/20 08:34 PM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Just imagine justifying the murder of a minority.

What a world we live in these days...


Im not "justifying" it. I think its NUTS that Georgia has such laws on the books. However my "personal opinion" doesn't matter. All those Georgia Laws I listed have brewed a cocktail of specific conditions that have "legally" allowed an outcome like this to transpire.

This has nothing to do with the person being a minority, It has to do with Georgia insane laws.

These laws in Georgia are absolutely BONKERS. The Open Carry Law in Georgias would be brandishing in most other states, I don't even think most other states even have a Citizens Arrest law, and don't get started on the self defense and stand your ground laws in Georgia that make Florida look like a walk in the park.

Its sad, but the minute Mr. Arbery entered that Dwelling, he literally just poured a crazy Georgia legal cocktail that allowed two morons to pursue him, heckle him, block him off, and then take part in killing him and they are actually going to probably walk over these INSANE and BONKERS laws they have in Georgia.

That is the real tragedy here...how does a citizens arrest law like that one even get passed? I mean wow...its unbelievable really.

Guys like these two give all gun owners a bad name. If it was up to me both these guys would be locked up, but its not up to me and the crazy laws in Georgia actually protect them in this instance which is just crazy in itself.

My whole point of posting this whole thread was to show the disconnect between the media and the law. As we see here, the law paints a completely different narrative then what the media and general thought would be. I think that a very dangerous thing.

I hope these two guys are charged with something...they should not just be able to walk away from this after IMO they created conditions for a person to lose their life in a negligent manner. There has to be some sort of legal remedy or this whole thing is just insane.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/12/20 03:52 PM
This is one of those instances where, yes, you can use the law to justify a clearly wrong and very tragic situation. But in order to do so, you have to completely unburden yourself of common sense. Only then, and when combined with cherry-picking laws here and there, can you come to a seemingly well-reasoned response.
Posted By: BpG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/12/20 04:25 PM
I just don't agree, you can't run people down in a truck with guns in the street for trespassing. They called the police, should have left well enough alone.

This is obviously a sensationalized issue, I get that, if the roles were reversed this wouldn't even be news. Black man killed by white men gets libs panties in a wad more than Trump's rhetoric. They jump to conclusions faster than an angry girlfriend...."Killed for jogging while black"....Lebron saying they are "Hunted in the streets every damn day" is utter and complete nonsense.


Still man, you just can't do it, you can't chase people down in your truck and point guns at them unless you are an active duty police officer, in uniform and properly identifying yourself.

Like I'm just not going to live in a world where vigilanties can just pull a gun on me for any reason they want.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/12/20 04:42 PM
The video shows him walking away from the construction site empty handed. He took nothing. You have a right to defend your own home against intruders. You do not have the right to stop an unarmed man based on your suspicions.

This won't end well for your theory that you can just walk up to people and demand they stop while you are armed. I wish the guy were armed so he could have stood his ground and killed his aggressors. I would have in his situation. Of course I doubt they would have approached me in such a manner for obvious reasons.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/12/20 09:35 PM
Quote:
The video shows him walking away from the construction site empty handed. He took nothing.

I don't care if he walked out there carrying as much lumber as he could hold... what they did was still wrong.

Quote:
You have a right to defend your own home against intruders. You do not have the right to stop an unarmed man based on your suspicions.

It wasn't even their home. The guy who owns the home under construction said there has never been a report of anything missing.

Quote:
This won't end well for your theory that you can just walk up to people and demand they stop while you are armed. I wish the guy were armed so he could have stood his ground and killed his aggressors.

What Ahmaud Arbery did once confronted was try to resist a kidnapping or, call it unlawful detention. I've seen nothing to lead me to believe otherwise.
Posted By: northlima dawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 12:49 AM
I read an article in a local paper a few days after the video came out.

It said from the police report at the time of the shooting, the older McMichael saw a black man running in the neighborhood that looked like the same man (don't know if they had a video camera) that was involved in a wave of burglaries and the thought that Arbery was targeting the neighborhood. He called his son and they went out in the truck and they said something to Arbery and that is when the shooting happened. I can't remember exactly what was said, I will try to find it if i can.

So the reporter went back through the last almost 2 months of police reports of the neighborhood to check out how many houses had been broken into-there were no houses broken into. The only theft in that area that happened was that McMichael had a gun stolen out of his vehicle in an unlocked truck on New Years day.

It never said anything about them seeing him in the home construction site. Now the owner of the home being constructed says he will probably never move into the waterfront home and has been receiving death threats. The homeowner never gave the video to McMichaels before the shooting and one of the McMichaels came to the house after the shooting asking for the video and the homeowner told them the don't have it they turned it over to the police.

A motion activated camera at the home construction site a few times picked up motion of a person in the yard but never picked up somebody in the house until that day and they never were burglarized nor did they speak to either McMichael in the last several months only talking to one of them when they first started construction of their house in mid 2019
Posted By: mgh888 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 01:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Now I see folks on here complaining about "Anti-Intellectualism". the media has parroted a completely false narrative surronding this whole case.

This 43 minute video will tell you truth, it uses all the official investigations and factual proof of this case...its not what the news is telling you. If your against anti-intellectualism then put your money where your mouth is, put aside your racial bias, and listen to some unbiased truth.



Ask yourself a question? Is this profile of a "good kid" Does this sound like a guy out on a jog? Why is a jogger wearing work boots? Why wasn't this guy locked up in prison already as this is obviously a high level felony. In what world does someone 19 years old bringing a loaded gun to a school possibly get probation and be allowed to walk the streets in the 1st place. This man was obviously dangerous...good people don't bring loaded guns to a school or school event illegally.





So to save myself time - would I be correct in thinking this OP was total and utter B.S ? Looks like, smells like ... the last post before mine seems to prove that.
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 01:48 AM
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 12:58 PM
^ It's an 18-min video, which is a bit long, but he goes into heavy detail about Georgia's trespassing, burglary and citizen arrest requirements. It's an informative watch on what we know right now.

Also, no race baiting in the video.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 02:25 PM
I'm watching the video.

People walking into those houses (unoccupied and unfinished they may be) is weird. I would assume someone is looking to steal wiring (right or wrong or whatever... that's the first thing I would think). edit: I'm not arguing against the video here... just voicing my own opinion.

I hope KoB's head explodes when he watches the video's explanation that Arbery wasn't actually trespassing.
Posted By: Jester Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 03:02 PM
I have a very different viewpoint. My 1st thought is that is something I might do. My neighbors are building a house and I am out for a run, I might take a minute or two to poke my head in and take a peak at it out of curiosity.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 04:01 PM
Agreed, I have popped into many construction sites just to look around, see how they did things, what the layout is, maybe inspire a home project.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 04:10 PM
Having been in the construction field for 30 years I'm often more interested in looking at the quality of the build and the quality of the material being used. The devil is often times in the details. I've never considered that something worthy of being confronted by some random guy with a gun for.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 04:12 PM
I just meant that as a sidebar comment. Didn't mean that statement to be applied in any way to the Arbery situation.

I also enjoyed watching that guy break down the legalese leading up to the killing. I hope those guys get charged. It was encouraging when the video pointed out that there is risk to attempting a citizens arrest. You gotta make sure you get it right and do it right. Much more to it (in terms of responsibility) than just pretending you're a cop in a movie for a little bit.
Posted By: Swish Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 04:12 PM
Owner of house Ahmaud Arbery purportedly entered before fatal shooting is getting death threats

https://www.yahoo.com/news/owner-house-ahmaud-arbery-purportedly-165450614.html

Larry English had long dreamed of owning a waterfront home. It was on his bucket list. He wanted easy access to fish and boat and a peaceful distraction from the stress of his heart-related illness.

His dream home is under construction in Brunswick, Georgia. But English said it is unlikely that he and his family will ever move in once it is complete.

"Now, it's honestly not safe," said his attorney, Elizabeth Graddy. "It's supposed to be a place for comfort and peace. And now, it will be forever associated with this tragedy."

English, 50, owns the house that Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, is purported to have entered before he was shot and killed on Feb. 23 by two white men.

Gregory McMichael, 64, and Travis McMichael, 34, were arrested and charged Thursday with murder and aggravated assault -- two days after a graphic video of the shooting became public. The video thrust the case into the national spotlight, prompting widespread outrage and raising concerns about why it took law enforcement officials more than two months to make arrests.

English has received death threats since the arrests, his attorney said in an interview Monday night, speaking on behalf of her client. She said English and his wife are "heartsick" for Arbery's parents.

Video from the day of Arbery's death, obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, shows a black man wearing a T-shirt and shorts walking up to a house under construction, entering and then leaving shortly after. Lawyers representing Arbery's family said in a statement Saturday that the security camera video proves Arbery did nothing wrong.

"Ahmaud did not take anything from the construction site," the family's lawyers said in a statement. "He did not cause any damage to the property. He remained for a brief period of time and was not instructed by anyone to leave but rather left on his own accord to continue his jog. Ahmaud's actions at this empty home under construction were in no way a felony under Georgia law."

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said it was reviewing the video but added that it had seen it before arresting and charging Gregory and Travis McMichael. The McMichaels could not be reached for comment.

Graddy said her client wants to "correct the mistaken impression" that English had shared the video or any other information about what had occurred at the property with the McMichaels before the shooting or at all. English had only briefly met the younger McMichael once in 2019, when he went to the construction site to introduce himself, Graddy said.

English, a beekeeper, said he was working in Douglas, about 90 miles from Brunswick, where he lives with his wife and two children, on Feb. 23, unaware of the tragedy that was unfolding.

English got an alert on his phone that a video had been taken at the construction site, Graddy said. "He worked for another 20 minutes and then washed up," she said.

After he watched the video in the alert, he called a neighbor and learned that Arbery had been killed that day, Graddy said. English gave the video to Glynn County police soon after the shooting, Graddy said.

In the months before February, a motion-activated camera had captured videos of someone inside the construction site a handful of times, Graddy said. The first time, English called a non-emergency police number and reported the unauthorized entry, Graddy said.

"He never used the word 'burglary,'" she said, adding that nothing has ever been stolen from or damaged at the property. "My client did not want people to come on to the property because it's just not safe."

English never shared any of this information with the McMichaels, whom he did not even know, according to his attorney.

"Even if there had been a robbery, however, the English family would not have wanted a vigilante response," Graddy said. "They would have entrusted the matter to law enforcement authorities."

Arbery's family says he was out jogging, while the McMichaels have said they thought he was a burglar, according to the Glynn County police report. Gregory McMichael armed himself with a .357 Magnum and his son grabbed a shotgun after Gregory McMichael saw Arbery "hauling ass" down the street, the police report said. A third man, later identified as William Bryan, a neighbor, tried to block Arbery during the pursuit, according to the police report.

Gregory McMichael told police that he thought Arbery was a burglar who had recently been targeting the neighborhood. The McMichaels told police that when they caught up with Arbery, he attacked Travis McMichael, who fired his weapon in self-defense.

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The Brunswick News, citing documents obtained through a public records request, reported that there had been just one confirmed burglary in the neighborhood from Jan. 1 to Feb. 23: the theft of a handgun from an unlocked truck parked outside Travis McMichael's house on Jan. 1.

Graddy, a native of South Georgia, said she emailed a letter last Wednesday to Thomas Durden, one of the prosecutors who had been assigned the case, asking why the McMichaels had not been arrested. The email went unanswered, she said. Durden could not immediately be reached for comment Tuesday at numbers listed for him.

English would visit the construction site regularly to check on the progress of the home. Graddy said that once, about two weeks ago, Gregory McMichael approached English at the site and inquired about obtaining surveillance videos. She said English did not entertain Gregory McMichael.

"My clients were not part of what the McMichaels told themselves to do," Graddy said.

"If the McMichaels are going to justify what they did, they are going to have to look elsewhere for help," she said.
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 04:56 PM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
Agreed, I have popped into many construction sites just to look around, see how they did things, what the layout is, maybe inspire a home project.



+1

I've done this dozens of times myself in the burbs in various eras of my life. Also, when we moved into our new construction high rise condo ~15 years ago, the upper floors weren't finished, so I walked in every single floor plan and see their view.

Heck, my parents used to do this all the time before they designed and built their house.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 05:02 PM
I guess I can understand why someone would want to. I would just feel weird walking into a home (or what will be a home) that wasn't mine and w/o the owner's permission. I also wasn't aware this was a "thing" prior to the dude in the video pointing it out.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 05:12 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I guess I can understand why someone would want to. I would just feel weird walking into a home (or what will be a home) that wasn't mine and w/o the owner's permission. I also wasn't aware this was a "thing" prior to the dude in the video pointing it out.


Now granted, if the doors and windows are installed and the home is closed up, then I would not enter.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 06:29 PM
J/C

This is Trayvon Martin all over again, but the victim isn't a minor this time.

When will we ever learn as a society?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/13/20 08:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but my understanding is that this is MUCH more clear-cut than Trayvon Martin.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/14/20 12:46 AM
j/c

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/14/20 01:09 AM
j/c:

I had not studied this case the first time I posted. I just said that KOB's stance about Anti-Intellectualism was wrong because his evidence was based on a 43 minute video.

I have looked into the case a bit and will freely admit that I am no expert on it, but it seems to me that this was murder.

I don't know if I buy that the dude was just checking out the construction of the house...LOL...........but, no way in hell did he deserve to be chased down and murdered. I think the one dude was crazed because his gun was stolen and was hell-bent on extracting vengeance.

If those two are guilty, and it looks like they are, I hope they are prosecuted severely.

Btw.............I saw this video of a white dude running down the street w/a TV on his shoulder. He did it to prove a point and he was right. No one chased him down and/or shot him.

Enough is enough.

I probably should not add this, but I am going to anyway because I can't forget all the black dudes I was bros w/back in the day. One of the reasons I started the Smooth Soul thread in EE was because I knew so many blacks during that time period and almost all of them just wanted to be accepted. They hated being looked at like they were stealing, dealing, about to rape, murder, plunder, pillage, etc. They just wanted to be men.

That s... used to eat at me and it bothered me that these brothers just wanted a fair shake. No handouts. No shortcuts. Just treat them like men. The music of that time expressed that sentiment. I was hoping to introduce it into that particular thread, but it never got off the ground. But yo...........watch some of those old videos of black groups from the 60s and 70s and tell me you can't see that they are just trying to be recognized as equal.

It breaks my heart that many of those dudes suffered in vain and do not get the recognition they deserve.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/14/20 01:37 AM
Everytime I see a case like this, I'm reminded of these words by MLK:

"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."

We need to stomp this kind of ugliness out of existence in our country.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/14/20 03:26 PM
That's a powerful statement, and I'm not arguing its validity. I read it in the same way as that Biblical verse/summary about the sin of good people not acting/accepting sin/bad things happening.

But increasingly it seems that the application of that phrase is used more to erode the investigative process, and to get at the truth. If you're not on board with the outrage from the start, then you're clearly against justice. I doubt that's the case here, but I'm speaking more in general. People seem to demand justice before they have the truth.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/14/20 03:37 PM
Some things are obviously deserving of outrage. The truth has been fully displayed for all to see. The only thing left are excuses for it.

What would have to occur for one to feel a sense of outrage?
Posted By: Jester Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 12:36 AM
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-delivery-driver-filmed-himself-204522419.html


A black delivery driver filmed himself being trapped in an Oklahoma City neighborhood as an HOA president demanded to know why he was there

kmclaughlin@businessinsider.com (Kelly McLaughlin)
,INSIDER•May 14, 2020

Travis Miller, a delivery driver in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, says a neighborhood's homeowners' association president blocked him into a gated community and demanded to know why he was there.

Miller captured the ordeal on Facebook Live, in a video that lasts for 37 minutes that has been watched more than 170,000 times.

The HOA official, who said his name was David Stewart, told Miller that he had called police on him after Miller refused to disclose customer information.

After the HOA official left, Miller said he was afraid to leave the gated community, telling police: "I didn't want to leave and have it seem like I was fleeing the scene or anything like that."

Visit Insider's homepage for more stories.

A black delivery driver in Oklahoma City says a neighborhood's homeowners' association (HOA) president blocked him into the gated community and demanded to know why he was there and how he got in.

Travis Miller, a home appliance and furniture delivery driver, captured the ordeal on Facebook Live, in a video that's now been watched more than 170,000 times.

He told KFOR that he was making a delivery in the Ashford Hills neighborhood of Oklahoma City on Monday when a man claiming to be the president of homeowners' association blocked him from exiting the gated community with his car.

Video of the incident shows the man, self-identified as David Stewart, repeatedly asking Miller why he was in the gated community. The video shows that a white car had been parked in front of Miller's truck, so he couldn't drive forward.

Miller refused to tell Stewart who he dropped packages off to in the neighborhood, citing customer privacy.

About 30 minutes into the Facebook video, another man joined Stewart, and asked Miller: "All we want to know is why you're in here and who gave you the gate code. That's all we need to know."




Miller again told the men that he didn't want to share personal information of customers, and told Facebook viewers that the men had called the police. The police don't arrive during the video, but the Stewart eventually moved his vehicle out of Miller's way.

"I guess they must have contacted the customer and the customer came around and they spoke for a minute and he moved out the way," Miller can be heard saying in the video.

Miller then called police himself, telling dispatch what happened to him and making sure it was safe for him to leave the area.

"He said that he called the cops back and let them know that everything was clear but I didn't want to leave and have it seem like I was fleeing the scene or anything like that," Miller said.

'I knew if I get out this truck, no matter what happened, I would have been in the wrong'

Miller told KOCO that the person he delivered items to had given him the key code for the gated community, and that when Stewart approached him, he kept his seatbelt on the entire time, locked his doors, and tried keeping his window up.

"I knew if I get out this truck, no matter what happened, I would have been in the wrong," Miller told KOCO. "I always say to myself, 'I'm going to go home to my wife and my kids.'"

The incident happened in the wake outrage over the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man who was gunned down while jogging in Georgia in February, and the death of Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was killed in a police shooting Kentucky in March.

Miller has received an outpouring of support online since his video went live. He told KOFR that he didn't know why Stewart responded in the way that he did.

"I just know that emotionally, it was hard to maintain restraint, especially when I'm dealing with death in the family, two family members within two days of each other," Miller said. "I just did the best I could to not make a bad situation worse."
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 01:49 AM
Quote:
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.


I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.

I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.

Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.

That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.

I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.

While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.
Posted By: Jester Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 03:50 AM
Appreciate the reply. I am a good bit younger than you are.Was a teenager in the mid 80's. So I never saw that in your face racism personally. Partly because of the decades I grew up in and partly because of the neighborhood I grew up in. My grade school was 100% white. Only about 6-10 non whites in my HS. I was good friends with a couple of them.

Not sure what made me the way I am but I never saw them as being any different. Still don't. The other day (more like a year or so ago) someone pointed out that one of the Physician Assistants on the Cardiothoracic surgery team was black. I was like, hmm, guess he is.

Because I am the way I am, I don't get the whole racism thing. It just doesn't make any sense to me. If the dude is a good dude, I'll hang with him. If he's a jerk-off, I avoid him. But color, race, religion, sexual orientation? It's all good to me.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 01:47 PM
This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?

Quote:


https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-7-21

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;


So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?

He is certainly guilty of Criminal Treaspassing at the least which is a crime, a crime that started this whole chain of events. I think these guys would have chased him down regardless of his race.

Mr. McMicheal was also the guy that investigated Mr. Arbery for bringing that gun into that school a few years back. Thats not something you would easily forget, so its safe to assume Mr. McMicheal recognized him, was obviously aware of his gun/violent criminal record, and saw him as dangerous, and thus, pursued him with guns.

I think these guys end up with Manslaughter at worst, but the prosecution has a huge hill to crime.

All the defense has to do is show proper cause for suspected burglary, and provide evidence that the McMicheals never laid a finger on Arbery until he attacked Travis. Having guns in plain view is legal in Georgia, and following someone in a truck is legal too. Even when they were stopped in the road, had Mr. Arbery just kept running, he would be alive right now.

the coroners report says the wounds Arbery suffered are consistent with accidental discharges from Arbery pulling on the shotgun. That video never shows Mr. McMicheal actually pulling the trigger shooting him it shows two men struggling over a gun and it going off. Accidents can NOT be murder under the law, so there goes the murder charge right there. Then the question comes down to is it manslaughter or is it self defense. The entire case hinges on the fact that neither of the McMicheals ever touched him, and done nothing illegal prior to the fight over the gun.

The defense has far more, but the more videos they release, the better the defenses case becomes. The prosecution has a huge mountain to climb to get a murder rap, and I just don't see it happening regardless of race or anything else.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 02:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?



Ahhh - you are probably right. And for those without common courtesy I say death is too good for them.
Posted By: Riley01 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 02:19 PM
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 02:24 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?



Ahhh - you are probably right. And for those without common courtesy I say death is too good for them.


Give me a Break! I am NOT condoning these two guys for shooting him. I have stated numerous times they could have handled this situation differently. the only things I did state was Georgia law will make it VERY hard to get a murder conviction in this case simply because of how the laws are written. Nothign racist about that.

I do think the prosecution has a GREAT case for Involuntary Manslaughter:

Quote:

Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-3 - Involuntary manslaughter


O.C.G.A. 16-5-3 (2010)
16-5-3. Involuntary manslaughter


(a) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so by the commission of an unlawful act other than a felony. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of an unlawful act, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years.

(b) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so, by the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.


The key factor here being was it lawful under the Citizen Arrest law to detain him, if so then these guys are guilty of misdeamanor manslaughter as they caused the death of person unlawfully while committing a lawful act. If they are deemed to not have been acting lawfully under the citizen arrest law, they wilkl be facing felony manslaughter which carries up to 10 years in prison. I think the prosecution has a great case here and is what they should pursue it pretty much ensure they nail them with something. Murder will be very hard to prove with the way the laws are in Georgia.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 02:34 PM
Originally Posted By: mgh888
[quote=Knight_Of_Brown]This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?


Lastly, let me tell you a story about me.

When i was 19, a buddy of mine took me to this new farm pond he says he had been fishing in. Told me he had permission, so we go there. We were there maybe a half hour and all of a sudden I hear BANG!!!!! and a bullet whizzing over my head. Then I hear it a second time, and We took off out of there in a hurry. I actually jumped a cow fence completely, be surprised how fast you can run when someone is shooting at you.

On the way home, I find out idiot didn't have permission to fish in that pond and I was FURIOUS! I am a white man, and I am lucky I didn't get shot that day. He shot at us numerous times...this is what happens when you treapass on other folks property. This isn't a race thing..I am white and was shot at numerous times with what my hearing tells me was a .30-06 rifle. I never went back there that's for sure.

Why am I telling you this? Because Treaspassing is illegal for a reason. Its illegal because some people are VERY territorial and don't want other people on their property, and this nation has a history of people being shot for trespassing. So rather than stacking bodies, the government made it illegal to trespass to "deter people" for putting themselves in situations where they may be shot by an overprotective landowner.

This doesn't excuse the landowner from a crime, but the trespassing law is there to keep people off other peoples property without permission so things like what happened to Mr. Arbery don't happen.

Mr. Arbery committed a crime. Regardless of how small of insignificant you think the crime is, had he not walked into that construction site and trespassed this whole thing would not have happened at all, so don't act like Mr. Arbery is blameless here. I am not saying Mr. Arbery deserved to be shot for trespassing, but being shot for trespassing isn't an uncommon thing in American history...its the reason trespassing is illegal in the 1st place.
Posted By: jfanent Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 03:28 PM
Quote:
So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?


We'll never know what "lawful" purpose he entered that property for, because he was shot and killed. Anyway, it isn't up to him to prove. You'd have to prove that he was there for an UNlawful purpose according to that law. Since it was proven that he didn't steal anything or destroy/damage property, he wasn't guilty of anything the way that law was written.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 03:48 PM
Originally Posted By: Riley01
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.


And you sir are part of why it will never get better. The blind can't see so they act as though it doesn't exist. It does.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 03:49 PM
He just can't give up his fight to excuse murder.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 05:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Riley01
Racism is a political liberal agenda its only used when it suits the left and in this case thats how I see it being used by the disengenous lefties here and the MSN.


This is why you see nothing:




breathe deep.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/15/20 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.


I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.

I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.

Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.

That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.

I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.

While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.


It's not that I don't believe you. I do. I just wonder if racism was always worse than you/we thought, but we just didn't hear about it as much. Kinda similar to COVID infection rate with limited testing (to compare to another hot topic).
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/16/20 03:49 PM
Viral video of the shooting of unarmed Georgia jogger Ahmaud Arbery was first leaked to the press at the request of the dad now accused of his murder — because he thought it would make him and his son look better.

The ironic shocker — that it was ex-cop Gregory McMichael who leaked the very video that would expose the Arbery shooting to the world, leading to father-son murder charges — was reported Friday by WSB-TV in Atlanta.
Posted By: jaybird Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/17/20 12:31 AM
Originally Posted By: Jester
I have a very different viewpoint. My 1st thought is that is something I might do. My neighbors are building a house and I am out for a run, I might take a minute or two to poke my head in and take a peak at it out of curiosity.


I live in a new neighborhood that has tons of construction going on... this is a common occurence in my neighborhood... I guess the biggest difference is most of the homes around me are brand new... but while my house was being built my wife and I frequently walked into the other houses being built around us... mainly out of curiosity to see what the floor plan was like, how far along they were, and what finishings they choose...

this whole situation is deplorable... as others have said... even if Arbery stole something he did not deserve to be shot on the street by those two idiots...
Posted By: cle23 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/17/20 01:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
Originally Posted By: mgh888
[quote=Knight_Of_Brown]This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?


Lastly, let me tell you a story about me.

When i was 19, a buddy of mine took me to this new farm pond he says he had been fishing in. Told me he had permission, so we go there. We were there maybe a half hour and all of a sudden I hear BANG!!!!! and a bullet whizzing over my head. Then I hear it a second time, and We took off out of there in a hurry. I actually jumped a cow fence completely, be surprised how fast you can run when someone is shooting at you.

On the way home, I find out idiot didn't have permission to fish in that pond and I was FURIOUS! I am a white man, and I am lucky I didn't get shot that day. He shot at us numerous times...this is what happens when you treapass on other folks property. This isn't a race thing..I am white and was shot at numerous times with what my hearing tells me was a .30-06 rifle. I never went back there that's for sure.

Why am I telling you this? Because Treaspassing is illegal for a reason. Its illegal because some people are VERY territorial and don't want other people on their property, and this nation has a history of people being shot for trespassing. So rather than stacking bodies, the government made it illegal to trespass to "deter people" for putting themselves in situations where they may be shot by an overprotective landowner.

This doesn't excuse the landowner from a crime, but the trespassing law is there to keep people off other peoples property without permission so things like what happened to Mr. Arbery don't happen.

Mr. Arbery committed a crime. Regardless of how small of insignificant you think the crime is, had he not walked into that construction site and trespassed this whole thing would not have happened at all, so don't act like Mr. Arbery is blameless here. I am not saying Mr. Arbery deserved to be shot for trespassing, but being shot for trespassing isn't an uncommon thing in American history...its the reason trespassing is illegal in the 1st place.


The thing is, he wasn't shot by the homeowner. He was shot by 2 vigilantes who "thought" he was responsible for prior thefts with no evidence.

And a new construction site is a lot different than a home. If someone enters my home without permission, by all means I'll shoot if I feel I need to. If someone would enter a construction site that had no one in it at the time? No way he should be shot. If you see him, you offer a warning that he shouldn't be there, or you call the local police if you feel the need, but you don't run after the guy and shoot him over it. It's not like he had a truck backed up and was loading it. How much stuff could a guy on foot actually be stealing anyway (which he wasn't doing)?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/17/20 03:26 PM
And oddly, NOTHING had ever been stolen from that home. No burglaries had been reported in that neighborhood. Several people, including a white couple and children had entered that same construction site on the very same day and nothing was done to any of them.

Here is an article where the homeowner says nothing had ever been stolen from the site.

Georgia homeowner: Nothing stolen before Ahmaud Arbery was shot

https://www.onlineathens.com/news/202005...arbery-was-shot
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/17/20 11:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Arbery is not an isolated incident but an extreme example. Racism in this country has gotten out of control. It feels as if all the progress that we have made since MLK has been stripped away in the past few years.


I am w/you in principle, but I disagree a bit in the reality of the situation.

I'm 63 years old and I remember what racism was like in the 60s and 70s. It's not worse now. Believe me on that one.

Earlier, I relayed a story of how many black guys I knew back in the day just wanted to be accepted as men. As human beings. We would play ball and then go back to the "crib" and talk. And talk. And talk. Dudes were troubled, and rightfully so. Most just wanted to be recognized as human beings. It ate them that they were always looked at as criminals and second class citizens.

That is still true today, but the outright blatant racism back in those days was off the charts. Again............it breaks my heart to think of some of the conversations we had.

I see similar stances against illegal immigrants today. A big portion of society criminalizes them all. Yes, I get that they are entering the country illegally, but our species has always been in search of better opportunities. When we dehumanize a group of people, we effectively take away their rights and that allows for exploitation and unethical treatment. We have built-in excuses to act uncivilized. I find the practice disgusting.

While the laws of nations might make such actions possible, I claim that the laws of humanity should override the laws of nations and that fair treatment for all people should prevail across the globe. That will never happen, but I'll be damned if I ever succumb to laws of those who are exploitative and the narrow-minded biased population.




I agree man. Things are way better today.

The reality is racism will probably never not exist. You are always going to have a few crackheads out there looking for someone to blame for their failures.

Pretty much eliminating it is like turning a large ship. It doesn't happen quickly.

Each generation has become more tolerant. It takes the children to make the change, not the adults. They are already formed, so it happens in 20-25 year increments.

I look back, you see change every decade.

The 50's, white kids liked listening to Chuck Berry and Fats Domino and black kids liked Elvis.

The 60's, a time of turmoil, but MLK and the Kenndey's did make a difference.

The 70's you started seeing black people in commercials. "Julia" was a top TV program. A black woman, a nurse, raising her young child. Good show. Others followed...who didn't like Sanford and Son and a spawn off All in the Family, The Jeffersons. Who didn't like George and "Wheesie"

Roots had a big impact.

In the 70's, if you saw a black and white couple, it raised a few eyebrows on both sides.....by the late 80's or early 90's, it was like love is good, find it where you can get it.

We just had a black President in President Obama. Think about that. It's one thing if a congressperson or mayor gets elected out of a high population black community, but when you see it happening on the state and national level, you know things have changed. A lot of white folks had to vote for President Obama to make that happen.

It just takes time is my message. Don't allow a couple of redneck asshats who look as dumb as stumps to change things. Rioting in the streets doesn't help the cause.

That father...well, that was him and his hatred, but he should be ashamed he brought his kid in to that world.

And it does work both ways. I forget the guys name, he stole some cigars or something from a store, the white cop stopped him and he started talking big and tried to grab the cops gun reaching in to the car, well, what do you expect, you are going to get shot. No police officer is going to just let you reach for his gun. In most reasonable peoples minds, that is a deadly threat that needs to be dispatched, so don't protest against that.



Note...I am a old guy, I say black and white. No disrespect intended. It's just easier.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 01:45 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
And oddly, NOTHING had ever been stolen from that home. No burglaries had been reported in that neighborhood. Several people, including a white couple and children had entered that same construction site on the very same day and nothing was done to any of them.

Here is an article where the homeowner says nothing had ever been stolen from the site.

Georgia homeowner: Nothing stolen before Ahmaud Arbery was shot

https://www.onlineathens.com/news/202005...arbery-was-shot


You folks are completely missing the point. This has ZERO to do with Race, and calling these guys murderers is factitious at best.

1. The video NEVER shows Travis McMicheal pulling the trigger on that shotgun. What the videos DOES show is two men struggling over a shotgun and the gun going off, TWICE. That's the legal definition of an accident/negligent discharge. Accidents can not be murder under the law, so that alone tosses your murder conviction right there. Do you really think the legal defense team is stupid? They are really liking their position right now.

2. Open Carry is LEGAL in Georgia. Those two men were acting lawfully under the eyes of the law. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-11/article-4/part-3/16-11-126/

3. To be charged with Brandishing under Georgia Law, the gun must be POINTED at someone. The mere act of having gun, telling the person you have a gun, even showing them the gun is NOT brandishing, you must POINT the gun at the person. No where on that video does it show Travis McMicheal pointing that gun at Mr. Arbery before Mr. Arbery charged him and grabbed the shotgun. Again, the Defense is going to eat this alive. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-11/article-4/part-1/16-11-102/

4. Prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and grabbing a hold of the shotgun, the McMicheals had not committed any crime whatsoever. They were acting lawfully within Georgia law. The McMicheals never laid one finger on Mr. Arbery, they never pointed a gun directly at him, Its not a crime to follow someone in a truck, even if they have guns. Even Travis McMicheal getting out of the truck and standing there holding a shot gun (which I may point out Travis never pointed that gun directly at Mr Arbery)is also not a crime.

When you look at THE LAW and not the ignorant emotional BS people are putting into about race, THE LAW says Mr. Arbery was the aggressor, because he charged Travis McMicheal, grabbed a hold of his gun, attempted to take the gun from him(that Travis McMicheal never pointed at him) and assaulted him with two punches to the face while pulling on the firearm causing it to discharge twice killing him.

This is the reason the prosecution didn't pursue charges. It has NOTHING to do with race. there is no grand conspiracy nonsense that they tried to cover this up for race reasons. The prosecutor had 36 years of experience as prosecuting attorney. He had prosecuted over 100 murder cases, and helped with over 100 more. Himself and all his senior trial attorneys agreed that this was a case of self defense under Georgia Law and not murder because the McMicheals done NOTHING ILLEGAL prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and grabbing the gun.

These prosecutors know more than you do. They are legal experts. The prosecutors office had every reason to want to charge these guys for murder. They didn't do an extensive investigation for nothing. Do you have any idea how this case would help his re-election bid if he was able to prosecute it? You can tell from the coroners report they spent a great deal of time evaluating this case, meeting with police detectives numerous times.

I know its hard to swallow because of the emotion and race nonsense, but THE LAW says the McMicheal's did NOTHING illegal prior to Mr. Arbery charging Travis McMicheal and trying to take his shotgun. Following him in a truck is not illegal, open carrying guns is not illegal, no brandishing because they never pointed a gun directly at Mr.Arbery, In this case two citizens were acting within their rights under the law and Mr. Arbery got scared, rightful or not, and charged a man holding a shotgun and tried to take it from him and the gun ended up going off twice killing him.

This textbook Self Defense, case closed. Good luck proving this was anything but self defense when the McMichael's never laid one finger on him and never broke any laws prior to Mr. Arbery charging him.

I don't like it anymore than any of you.


I think those laws in Georgia need to be changed
I think that citizen arrest law needs to be repealed
I think it should not be legal for normal citizens to chase down a suspected criminal suspect as I believe that is a job for the police.
I think the Mcmicheals could have handled this much differently.

However, just because I don't agree with something doesn't make it illegal.

As I said, good luck proving this was anything but self defense. The law says otherwise, and the Defense is going to spell this out to the jury.

Guess what? Even if they convict them, that conviction is 99.9% certain to be overruled and tossed in Appeals Court because THE LAW says otherwise, and a jury doesn't get to make up the law as they see fit based on their emotions.

If this was two black men doing this to a white guy i'd feel the same. In fact it wouldn't even be a news story at all.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 02:37 PM
Quote:

If this was two black men doing this to a white guy i'd feel the same. In fact it wouldn't even be a news story at all.


Yes, the black men would have been in jail later that day. Unless the cops shot them while trying to detain them.
Posted By: jfanent Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 03:50 PM
Quote:
This textbook Self Defense, case closed.


Yep....textbook self defense for Arbery. He was being pursued by gun weilding men. He was in fear for his life, and that's all you need to claim self defense. The men were chasing Arbery with loaded weapons, so how on earth can they claim self defense? No castle doctrine or stand your ground law can be applied here. The men were guilty of neglegent homicide for failing to control their weapon. It is totally their fault for being in that situation.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 04:22 PM
Stop making sense.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 04:43 PM
Quote:
This has ZERO to do with Race


You spent the first post in this thread trying to lay out an argument why this guy deserved to be shot.

Then you linked to a white nationalist in the very same introductory post.

You should really consider looking deeply into your arguments and implicit bias. You come off as a seriously ignorant and cavalier when it comes to issues that involve race.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 06:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
This isn't a case of racism.

I personally would NEVER enter someones construction site without permission, and your being an ******* if you do so as your entering someones private property without permission. Where in the world is common courtesy anymore to "ask someone" before doing something?

Quote:


https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-7-21

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;


So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?

He is certainly guilty of Criminal Treaspassing at the least which is a crime, a crime that started this whole chain of events. I think these guys would have chased him down regardless of his race.

Mr. McMicheal was also the guy that investigated Mr. Arbery for bringing that gun into that school a few years back. Thats not something you would easily forget, so its safe to assume Mr. McMicheal recognized him, was obviously aware of his gun/violent criminal record, and saw him as dangerous, and thus, pursued him with guns.

I think these guys end up with Manslaughter at worst, but the prosecution has a huge hill to crime.

All the defense has to do is show proper cause for suspected burglary, and provide evidence that the McMicheals never laid a finger on Arbery until he attacked Travis. Having guns in plain view is legal in Georgia, and following someone in a truck is legal too. Even when they were stopped in the road, had Mr. Arbery just kept running, he would be alive right now.

the coroners report says the wounds Arbery suffered are consistent with accidental discharges from Arbery pulling on the shotgun. That video never shows Mr. McMicheal actually pulling the trigger shooting him it shows two men struggling over a gun and it going off. Accidents can NOT be murder under the law, so there goes the murder charge right there. Then the question comes down to is it manslaughter or is it self defense. The entire case hinges on the fact that neither of the McMicheals ever touched him, and done nothing illegal prior to the fight over the gun.

The defense has far more, but the more videos they release, the better the defenses case becomes. The prosecution has a huge mountain to climb to get a murder rap, and I just don't see it happening regardless of race or anything else.
You keep posting the law to back the shooters.

Lets look at the laws you keep posting.

1. In the state of GA is IS LEGAL to make an citizens arrest if you WITNESS a felony.

* The shooters did not witness anything. All that was said, was they saw him running and he fit the description of someone in a rash of burglaries in the area.

2. There is video of allegedly of Ahmaud at a construction site.

* This video came out way later, after the fact. Also, the shooters had no idea or mentioned to police of witnessing him at this construction site. So the video means jack crap, because the shooter had no idea he was inside the construction site. SOOOO, the men did not witness him at the site, so they DID NOT WITNESS anything. Which gave them 0 reason or justification to stop him in the first place, which throws out the argument of a citizens arrest altogether!!

3. Nothing was found on Ahmaud's body, meaning nothing was stolen from the site. Meaning, at the most someone could say, is that he was trespassing at the site - which in the STATE OF GA is misdemeanor, not a felony. ONCE AGAIN taking away any argument for a citizens arrest, and giving 0 right for the shooters to stop him or confront him.

4. So you have trespassing at MOST against Mr. Arbery, which is a 1000.00 fine and / or up to 1 year jail sentence. NOWHERE is death a punishment for it.

IF you are going to argue this case and try to use LAWS as an argument, please try to understand them in the first place, and the facts of the case, as they do not hold up any arguments.

Those men murdered this man, plain and simple.

Your argument is he was trespassing. OK. They didn't witness him trespass. They never stated they witnessed him trespassing. Trespassing is not a felony, its a misdemeanor which does not give someone in the state of GA the authority to conduct a citizens arrest. You have to WITNESS A FELONY. Neither a felony or them witnessing him do anything happened.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 06:41 PM
Quote:
So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting.
Your blinded by the fact that the video didn't come out until WELL after this shooting. The men who shot him, did not know he was inside the construction site. So the video, literally has nothing to do with the case. And I would argue it doesn't even get put into actual trial evidence, as the shooters never mentioned seeing him in the site. It has 0 bearing on any actual fact of the case.

Quote:
He is certainly guilty of Criminal Treaspassing at the least which is a crime, a crime that started this whole chain of events. I think these guys would have chased him down regardless of his race.
You obviously know nothing of what you are talking about. 1. the State of GA only allows Citizens Arrest if a FELONY is committed. Trespassing is not a felony, its a misdemeanor. They also would have had to WITNESS the felony, they did not. They told police (which was in the police report) that they saw him running and though he fit description of a burglar who had burglarized the area multiple times.

1. There was only 1 burglary reported in the area recently to police, not MULTIPLE
2. Don't you find it odd they didn't tell police they witnessed him do something. So they obviously did not witness anything, taking away any right to stop him in the first place.


Quote:
All the defense has to do is show proper cause for suspected burglary
This statement shows your complete lack of knowledge on our justice system. First, the defense doesn't have to show anything. They are the defense. The prosecutors have to show that the white men stopped him for no reason no reason and he was not a suspect at the time. WHICH, by the shooters own account of what happened, they had none.

Quote:
The defense has far more, but the more videos they release, the better the defenses case becomes.
It doesn't. The shooters had not seen the video before they shot him. They had no idea he was in the construction site. So the video is jack nothing.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 06:56 PM
nicely done.
thank you.
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 07:34 PM
There are no defense for the two suspects. The use of deadly force should only be used in self defense. That clearly did not happen since they chased the victim.

Ahmed Arbery may not have been a model citizen but in no way shape or form should he have lost his life during this incident.

The two suspects should have used the camera and filmed him and then turned that over to the police. There is no evidence that suggests the use of a gun in any way, shape, or form.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 07:54 PM
Agreed. Deadly force is only viable if you are in fear for your life or your loved ones life/lives. Not for trespassing, or even if someone HAD stolen something and he/she was running away. You can't chase them over nothing, or even a t.v., or cash. If they are running away with anything other than your kid, you can't chase them. Period.

Dude was running. And we don't know if he was running away, anyway. He had nothing on him. Was he jogging, or was he casing the house? Who cares. Doesn't matter. THEY inserted themselves into a situation, and THEY escalated that situation.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/18/20 10:32 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Agreed. Deadly force is only viable if you are in fear for your life or your loved ones life/lives. Not for trespassing, or even if someone HAD stolen something and he/she was running away. You can't chase them over nothing, or even a t.v., or cash. If they are running away with anything other than your kid, you can't chase them. Period.

Dude was running. And we don't know if he was running away, anyway. He had nothing on him. Was he jogging, or was he casing the house? Who cares. Doesn't matter. THEY inserted themselves into a situation, and THEY escalated that situation.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 05:21 AM
This boils down to the shooters placing feelings over facts like Trump does. They felt they had the right to chase this guy down and hold him for police with weapons in hand. They felt they had the right to protect themselves if being hunted and harassed by men carrying guns caused him to react violently. They felt their rights to believe in feelings over facts will stand up in court. Now we shall see.
Posted By: 3rd_and_20 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 09:29 AM
j/c:

Police fail in attempt to tase Ahmaud Arbery during 2017 incident

Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 11:30 AM
yeah the dude deserved what he got. Shot To death in cold blood for looking guilty. Pfft the trump era.
Posted By: Jester Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 01:28 PM
The sister of Ahmaud Arbery's accused killer posted pictures of his dead body to Snapchat, and said it's because she's a 'true crime fan'

INSIDER
acollman@businessinsider.com (Ashley Collman)
,INSIDER•May 19, 2020


Lindsay McMichael is the sister of Travis McMichael, who along with his father Gregory is a suspect in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery.

In an interview with The Sun on Monday, she admitted to sharing a picture of Arbery's body at the crime scene, but said she didn't do so maliciously.

McMichael said: "The thing is I'm a huge fan of true crime – I listen to four or five podcasts a week – I'm constantly watching that sort of thing. It was more of a, 'Holy s---, I can't believe this has happened.'"

Visit Insider's homepage for more stories.

The sister of the accused killer of Ahmaud Arbery has admitted to sharing a picture of the victim's body, saying she did it because she's a "true crime fan" but now realizes it was in poor taste.

Lindsay McMichael, whose brother Travis and father Gregory are suspects in Arbery's killing, posted the image to Snapchat around the time of the killing on February 23, according to The Sun newspaper.

Ahmaud Arbery was shot dead at the end of February while out on a jog.
Ahmaud Arbery was shot dead at the end of February while out on a jog.
I RUN WITH MAUD/Facebook

The post was made before Arbery's case had become a national scandal.

The unarmed black 23-year-old's death, and the delayed arrests of the suspects, prompted outage across the nation after video of his death became public.

The father and son were arrested on May 7, after the video was released.

Gregory McMichael told police that his son shot Arbery after a struggle which followed them confronting Arbery over a series of break-ins in the neighborhood.

The Sun reported that the photo photo, which shows Arbery's blood-soaked body at the crime scene, had been making the rounds within the Brunswick, Georgia community before Lindsay McMichael posted it.

When asked about the picture by The Sun on Monday, Lindsay McMichael apologized and said she had shown poor judgment.

"I had no nefarious or malicious intent when I posted that picture," she said.

"The thing is I'm a huge fan of true crime – I listen to four or five podcasts a week – I'm constantly watching that sort of thing. It was more of a, 'Holy s---, I can't believe this has happened'. It was absolutely poor judgment," she added.

Lee Merritt, a lawyer for Arbery's family, said it was "very disturbing" for Lindsay McMichael to post the picture.


GA Bureau of Investigation
@GBI_GA
· May 7, 2020
Gregory & Travis McMichael have been arrested for the murder of Ahmaud Arbery. There will be a press conference tomorrow morning at 9 AM in Brunswick, GA (1 Conservation Way). https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2020-05-06/ahmaud-arbery-death-investigation
View image on Twitter

Jovita Ida
@eMliamEoG
What are you going to do about their family member Lindsay Jane Mcmichael who posted disturbing images on her social media’s of the victims body?! #JusticeForAhmaud #unprofessional #shameonyouall
View image on Twitter

16
1:36 PM - May 8, 2020
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See Jovita Ida's other Tweets

"It actually fits in with the pattern of the McMichael family engaging in a weird, violent form of voyeurism," Merritt added.

In a previous interview with The Sun, McMichael said that she and her mother were watching a movie when the shooting happened and had no idea what was going on.

She said she does not believe her father and brother are racists because they always "loved" her non-white boyfriends.

Seeing her brother's face after the shooting also led her to believe that they didn't mean to harm Arbery.

"All I saw was the look on his [Travis's] face and he was looking very desperate… I don't think we even exchanged a word," Lindsay said.

"I've seen my brother in his happiest moments – I was there when his child was born and I've seen him in distress and I know that look… it wasn't like some glory thing, like 'I stalked and then got the kill that I was hoping for.' It was absolute f---ing panic…I really do believe that things just escalated so fast."

The McMichaels are currently in jail on charges of murder and aggravated assault.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/sister-ahmaud-arberys-accused-killer-095844761.html
Posted By: BpG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 02:18 PM
I keep seeing Trump mentioned. Like this type of stuff is extremely rare and has only happened in the last 4 years. Jesus Christ, it's so obnoxious.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 04:55 PM
It's about the frequency. It's about the rise in the number of white supremacy. It's about how much more numerous and vocal people are about the seeming support for them. Pretending these things aren't happening and that something didn't happen that acted as the catalyst doesn't change any of that.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/19/20 06:16 PM
Quote:
So what "lawful purpose" did Mr. Arbery have for entering that construction site on private property? I am waiting. He didn't have permission from the owner, nor anyone else with the authority to give him permission. He isn't a cop or a building inspector or other government employee. So what lawful purpose was he in there for?

He is certainly guilty of Criminal Treaspassing at the least which is a crime, a crime that started this whole chain of events. I think these guys would have chased him down regardless of his race.

Mr. McMicheal was also the guy that investigated Mr. Arbery for bringing that gun into that school a few years back. Thats not something you would easily forget, so its safe to assume Mr. McMicheal recognized him, was obviously aware of his gun/violent criminal record, and saw him as dangerous, and thus, pursued him with guns.

I think these guys end up with Manslaughter at worst, but the prosecution has a huge hill to crime.

All the defense has to do is show proper cause for suspected burglary, and provide evidence that the McMicheals never laid a finger on Arbery until he attacked Travis. Having guns in plain view is legal in Georgia, and following someone in a truck is legal too. Even when they were stopped in the road, had Mr. Arbery just kept running, he would be alive right now.

the coroners report says the wounds Arbery suffered are consistent with accidental discharges from Arbery pulling on the shotgun. That video never shows Mr. McMicheal actually pulling the trigger shooting him it shows two men struggling over a gun and it going off. Accidents can NOT be murder under the law, so there goes the murder charge right there. Then the question comes down to is it manslaughter or is it self defense. The entire case hinges on the fact that neither of the McMicheals ever touched him, and done nothing illegal prior to the fight over the gun.

The defense has far more, but the more videos they release, the better the defenses case becomes. The prosecution has a huge mountain to climb to get a murder rap, and I just don't see it happening regardless of race or anything else.


You are giving McMichael's the benefit of every doubt while doing the exact opposite for Arbery.. that is how you are framing the case, as if you are the defense attorney.. and you wonder why people accuse you of lacking objectivity.

If, as you say, McMichael knew him and remembered him from a previous incident, then he would have had no problem making an ID to the police and allowing them to go to his home and make a formal case because they had absolutely no reason to believe he posed any kind of physical threat to anybody at that moment.. but he didn't, he tracked him down in the road and cut him off with guns drawn...

Now you might have your own impression of what that means, but let me tell you that neither you nor I can understand what is going through a young black man's mind when he gets cut off by a pick up truck in rural Georgia and two non-uniformed bearded white guys with guns jump out of the truck and start yelling and accusing him of stuff.... I would give every benefit of the doubt to a young black man whose first thought was NOT, I should comply and go peacefully.

Criminal trespass in Georgia is punishable by a fine of up to $1000 and a year in jail for a worst case... because even they realize, it's not THAT big of a crime.. certainly not worthy of tracking somebody and confronting them with guns as civilians..

And none of this begins to scratch the surface of the boondoggle within the local government of multiple layers of people who just let them go and did their very best to try make sure this got covered up and disappeared without becoming "an incident"...

Did I read somewhere that the woman who was ultimately responsible for making the decision to let them go.. then had to recuse herself when they decided to press charges because she knows them too well? If so, that alone tells you much of what is wrong with this on the political side..
Posted By: Milk Man Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/21/20 10:09 PM
J/c...

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 12:58 AM
What did he have to do with it?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 01:07 AM
I'm guessing because he wasn't just at the scene, but that he chased after all three and then filmed the murder.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 01:18 AM
Yep, he must have been working with the killers in some way tracking Arbery down.
Posted By: jfanent Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 02:51 AM
According to the article, he tried to block Arbery's path with his vehicle while the goofballs were chasing him.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 03:19 AM
Thanks. They must have just posted or something when I first looked at it because there was only 3 paragraphs then and no mention of that. But that makes it understandable now.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 03:47 PM
j/c

Knight of a Brown's law degree doesn't seem to be holding up very well.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 04:58 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
j/c

Knight of a Brown's law degree doesn't seem to be holding up very well.


Nothing I have said has been in any way disproven.

You ever hear of this thing called "Jury Nullification" What If I told you even if you were justified by the law, even if you were innocent, a Jury can still convict you and send you to prison.

These two men are being charged solely for political reasons.

1. Following someone in a truck is NOT illegal in Georgia under Georgia Law

2. Open Carrying a Loaded Firearm is NOT illegal in Georgia under Georgia Law

3. You can only be charged with Brandishing a Firearm under Georgia Law by activly POINTING a gun at someone. Show me where Travis McMichael shoulders or otherwise points his shotgun at Arbery.

4. They never detained him, physically touched him, or outright stopped him in anyway.

The prosecution charging the video guys is just a tactic to try and get him to testify against the others.

There is so much reasonable doubt in this case. The Defense literally has a sinkhole the size of Texas in reasonable doubt to sow in the jury.

The prosecution will have to prove a crime was committed by the McMicheals prior to Arbery attacking Travis McMichael, I;d love to see what law that will end up being. Fact is its lawful to stand on a public Street in Georgia with a loaded shotgun, Its legal.

It will be far easier for the defense to paint the picture to the jury that Travis McMicheal was standing on a public street in a lawful manner and Arbery attacked him. The defense will say they only wanted to talk to him and wait for the police, the defense will point out his clients never laid one finger on Mr Arbery, and it was Mr. Arbery who attacked Travis MfcMichael, whom as a citizen, was acting lawfully under Georgia law.

The prosecution will have to proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the McMicheals committed a crime prior to the shooting or Arbery. They did call the police, so that takes stalking, and menacing out. Can't say they illegally detained him because they never stopped his movement, they never tackled him or held him against his will...so how are they going to prove the McMicheals commited a crime?

this is real reason the prosecutors office wanted nothing to do with this case. There is no grand conspiracy to cover this up. The prosecutors office met with police detectives numberous times, done extensive autospy, they studied every aspect of this case and came to the same conclusion as I did which is:

There is reasonable doubt the size of Texas they could sow in a jury and the % chances of getting a murder conviction is about 10%, if the defense can even sow even the slightest bit of doubt this was self defense the case is lost.

36 years of expereince, they are not stupid...this case is being brought for politcal reasons and nothing more. They have very little basis in the law or evidence to convict these guys of anything more than "maybe" involuntary manslaughter, and thats a big maybe if these two have an even average defense attorney.

I won't be one bit surprised if these do go to prison on Jury Nullification and are convicted despite acting lawfully within the law, that happens all the time. The news media has probably poison the jury pool to the point these guys have no chance of an impartial jury anyways.

I honestly think they shouldn't be allowed to report on any crime until AFTER the trial...poisoning of the jury pool is real and it taints the whole legal process for both the prosecution and the defense are equally hindered by it.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 05:21 PM
Murder isn't political. But these days some people wish to make science, crime and excuses all political.

It was murder. There's even video to prove it. You sound like Trump. You have built in excuses even if you lose.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 05:22 PM
I literally blasted every point you made before. SO I will do it again.

Quote:
1. Following someone in a truck is NOT illegal in Georgia under Georgia Law
No its not, but if it is with intent to hold someone hostage with a shotgun, that means its premeditated and thought out, as they had ample time to turn think about their actions. This actually is for the prosecution as a point that they considered their options, and choose to proceed with stopping him at gunpoint and shooting him. I find it funny you think this point bolsters the opposite opinion. Which shows you have no idea what your talking about, once again.

Quote:
2. Open Carrying a Loaded Firearm is NOT illegal in Georgia under Georgia Law
No one said it wasn't. However, again - they were not "carrying" the weapons. They were at the ready being used to stop an individual. Again, "carrying a firearm" and holding it out pointed at someone are two different things. One is legally carrying, and the other is brandishing a firearm, which is illegal. Once again, you do not know your laws, and I surely hope you do not carry a weapon until you take a self defense class.

Quote:
3. You can only be charged with Brandishing a Firearm under Georgia Law by activly POINTING a gun at someone. Show me where Travis McMichael shoulders or otherwise points his shotgun at Arbery.
Actually, GA law doesn't actually address what brandishing is. So your wrong again. There was a PROPOSED law in GA to make that true, but as of March 3rd, it had not been signed into law. So your wrong again there as well. (Seeing a pattern forming, do you).

https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article240853751.html

Quote:
4. They never detained him, physically touched him, or outright stopped him in anyway.
You have no idea what was said to him. Simply yelling "hey stop" would be the ACT of trying to detain him. They don't actually have to detain him for it to be considered trying to detain him. Wrong again, because without sound you literally have no idea. You know what we do know - THE SHOOTERS literally TOLD police, they tried to detain him for a citizens arrest. You cant just erase police record, genius. Wrong again.

Your entire post is so half butt backwards, I honestly don't know where to begin. Most of it was already proven to be false in my last post, showing GA law on citizens arrest and how they have to WITNESS the crime of a felony to be able to try to detain someone which you conveniently leave out and disregard.

Its a wonder why you are trying so hard to prove these guys in the right. Almost like, you are happy they shot and killed a man. Either that, your just trolling, which using the death of a human being to do so is in mind - reason to ban you from the site for good. I hope the refs consider this to be honest. This is disgusting on your part, and frankly not even worth any more responses as you obviously are not even trying to debate, your just throwing out the same disproven comments over and over.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 05:29 PM
Quote:
I honestly think they shouldn't be allowed to report on any crime until AFTER the trial...poisoning of the jury pool is real and it taints the whole legal process for both the prosecution and the defense are equally hindered by it.
They only thing being poisoned is the board when you post something.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/22/20 11:41 PM
I admire your dedication to this cause, willit.

Even with CoVid sequestration and a job that's on indefinite hold, I still had no surplus time for this particular rabbit hole.

Manning the front lines against 'counter-intellegence' and retrograde common sense.

Thank you for your service, sir.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 03:08 AM
Not sure why you are standing on this hill KOB? You have been proven wrong. This shouldn’t end well for these losers.
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 03:14 AM
All I will say that if the colors of the participants were reversed, it would be a first or second degree murder charge.

The jogger was clearly attacked by some crazy dudes in a pick up truck carrying a shotgun. And they had a accomplice trailing them to film the event.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 03:15 AM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
[/quote]They only thing being poisoned is the board when you post something.


Well, so much for discussing the various sides of any subject.

Lets just take turns insulting each other every day and dispense with any discussions.

We could just have one thread.
Posted By: jaybird Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 03:20 AM
Totally agree

That video in my opinion is pretty damnning

These two but jobs need to be covicted

Not sure the guy videoing should be covicted but if he was blocking Avery then I guess that will be his downfalk
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 03:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown


The prosecution charging the video guys is just a tactic to try and get him to testify against the others.





I was wondering why he was charged like the others and I think you may have hit the nail on the head here.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 04:14 AM
NAACP says beating of Iowa man should be investigated as hate crime

The Des Moines chapter of the NAACP said Wednesday that the beating of an Iowa man last week should be investigated as a hate crime.

DarQuan Jones, 22, was reportedly attacked by white men after he arrived at his girlfriend’s townhouse at 3 a.m. early Saturday and she didn’t answer the door, Kameron Middlebrooks, president of the Des Moines NAACP chapter, told NBC News.

Two white men allegedly accused Jones of burglary and choked him and punched him in the face. Jones at first attempted to defend himself before running to a nearby field before the men caught up, dragged him to a creek and dunked his head underwater, Middlebrooks told the network.

Two women from a nearby apartment complex came out after hearing the struggle, and Jones allegedly ran through the creek and called the police.

The attackers were described as white men in their 30s who were possibly drunk or high.

Middlebrook said in a statement to The Hill that the NAACP stands "in solidarity with the family" and others who "want justice for Quan."

"After speaking with Quan, his family, and the witnesses that have come forward, if the story is as they state it is then what occurred yesterday should be seen as nothing less than a hate crime," Middlebrook said.

"This young man, who is also an essential worker, was brutally beaten, called a n-----, called a monkey, and had his life nearly taken," he continued. "If it wasn’t for two witnesses that came to his aid, we could have been working with the family on funeral arrangements."

Jones told reporters Tuesday that he endured a broken arm, a broken nose and five broken bones in his face.

Des Moines Police spokesman Sgt. Paul Parizek confirmed to NBC News that Jones and witnesses reported that at least one of the men was using racial slurs. He told the network that the “racist nature of at least one of the attackers is obvious” but said officers were still gathering evidence to determine a motive.

Parizek told the Des Moines Register that police aren't calling the assault racially motivated until the suspects and their motives are identified.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-...tigated-as-hate
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 04:44 AM
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
I honestly think they shouldn't be allowed to report on any crime until AFTER the trial...poisoning of the jury pool is real and it taints the whole legal process for both the prosecution and the defense are equally hindered by it.
They only thing being poisoned is the board when you post something.


What a shame, we were having a nice spirit discussion about this until you resort to this kinda stuff.

Just so you know, I hope these guys do get convicted. I always have. however, I was playing Devil's Advocate and giving you just a small taste of what the defense can do to poke holes in their case. Remember, all the defense has to do is sow reasonable doubt and they win, they don't have to prove anything.

Did Travis McMicheal pull the trigger on that shotgun? Or did it go off accidentally because Arbery was pulling on it? Because that right there is the difference between murder and manslaughter...just one small detail like that changes everything.

I thought you were doing a good job taking up the prosecution side, but I can see we can no longer have any fruitful discussion because you can't control your anger. Your taking this whole thing too personal. Your far too focused on "this is murder" and not looking at the circumstances that make something murder.

As I said above, the video does NOT conclusively show Travis McMicheal pulling the trigger. What is DOES show is two guys struggling over a gun, and it going off resulting in Arbery dying. Remember, accidents can not be murder, and that video alone sows more than enough reasonable doubt it was an accidental discharge.

Regardless, this is a touchy subject so its time to stop. I didn't realize everyone would take this so personal. All it takes is the news media to turn it into a race thing and everyone gets so invested in it.

Lets' be real, this is 2020, this kinda stuff shouldn't happen to anyone anymore, I don't care what race you are. This just shows you how backwards the laws are in some of these southern states like Georgia.

IMO I don't think Stand your Ground should ever extend outside your home or vehicle. If your outside your home and you carry a weapon you should have a duty to retreat, and using deadly force should only be justifiable if you have no avenue to retreat and the other person(s) have weapons and are attempting to rape or kill you. Just being in a fistfight with someone is not reason enough to use your weapon.

I was just trying to softne the blow for a possible outcome.

I sincerely hope you get the result from this trial you want.

Take care
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 09:07 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
This boils down to the shooters placing feelings over facts like Trump does. They felt they had the right to chase this guy down and hold him for police with weapons in hand. They felt they had the right to protect themselves if being hunted and harassed by men carrying guns caused him to react violently. They felt their rights to believe in feelings over facts will stand up in court. Now we shall see.


Why are you blaming Trump? Its clearly a case where they were following the liberal standard of seeing someone, feeling like he did something wrong, and totally dispensing with any concept of facts, evidence or due process and convicting him on the spot.


In any event, these guys unnecessarily contributed to the escalation of the situation. They should have just followed him and been a good witness until the cops showed up. Its what any other reasonable person would have done.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 01:26 PM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They only thing being poisoned is the board when you post something.


Well, so much for discussing the various sides of any subject.

Lets just take turns insulting each other every day and dispense with any discussions.

We could just have one thread.[/quote]

To be fair, he's already tried the tough but fair, logical response approach. That didn't work.
Posted By: jfanent Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 02:07 PM
Quote:
Its clearly a case where they were following the liberal standard of seeing someone, feeling like he did something wrong, and totally dispensing with any concept of facts, evidence or due process and convicting him on the spot.


brownie
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/23/20 02:26 PM
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
This boils down to the shooters placing feelings over facts like Trump does. They felt they had the right to chase this guy down and hold him for police with weapons in hand. They felt they had the right to protect themselves if being hunted and harassed by men carrying guns caused him to react violently. They felt their rights to believe in feelings over facts will stand up in court. Now we shall see.


Why are you blaming Trump? Its clearly a case where they were following the liberal standard of seeing someone, feeling like he did something wrong, and totally dispensing with any concept of facts, evidence or due process and convicting him on the spot.


In any event, these guys unnecessarily contributed to the escalation of the situation. They should have just followed him and been a good witness until the cops showed up. Its what any other reasonable person would have done.




Billy Bob and Karen are republican. Trump stokes the divides until people feel like this is OK. 2Aers, anti immigrant peeps, mexican gangs and s hole countries is how he describes brown people always instilling fear... That's why I blame Trump that crap like this is on the uptick. BUT Trump didn't pull the trigger and wasn't involved in the act, that's all on the billy bobs and karens. Not all karens are republican, but most are because she tends to be racist.
Posted By: DevilDawg2847 Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/24/20 03:43 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
This boils down to the shooters placing feelings over facts like Trump does. They felt they had the right to chase this guy down and hold him for police with weapons in hand. They felt they had the right to protect themselves if being hunted and harassed by men carrying guns caused him to react violently. They felt their rights to believe in feelings over facts will stand up in court. Now we shall see.


Why are you blaming Trump? Its clearly a case where they were following the liberal standard of seeing someone, feeling like he did something wrong, and totally dispensing with any concept of facts, evidence or due process and convicting him on the spot.


In any event, these guys unnecessarily contributed to the escalation of the situation. They should have just followed him and been a good witness until the cops showed up. Its what any other reasonable person would have done.




Billy Bob and Karen are republican. Trump stokes the divides until people feel like this is OK. 2Aers, anti immigrant peeps, mexican gangs and s hole countries is how he describes brown people always instilling fear... That's why I blame Trump that crap like this is on the uptick. BUT Trump didn't pull the trigger and wasn't involved in the act, that's all on the billy bobs and karens. Not all karens are republican, but most are because she tends to be racist.


It really sucks when the people you despise the most start playing by the rules you've tried so hard to put in place doesn't it?

Any who, past the criminal charges in regards to this young man's death, I hope there is a thorough investigation as to why charges weren't brought previously. I've heard some whispers of allegations that the original prosecutor may have not been doing things on the up and up.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 05/24/20 11:10 AM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
Its clearly a case where they were following the liberal standard of seeing someone, feeling like he did something wrong, and totally dispensing with any concept of facts, evidence or due process and convicting him on the spot.


brownie


Cept the liberal standard doesn’t include supporting cold blooded murder. tsktsk
Posted By: Milk Man Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 06/24/20 08:04 PM
j/c...

Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 06/24/20 08:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



Good. Justice should be served.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 06/25/20 12:41 PM
Now they can have a trial, they can examine evidence, questions witnesses, hear the cops and their lawyers argue the case and a jury will decide.

The way it's supposed to be
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY - 06/25/20 01:43 PM
I just want to state that more facts have come out about this case than what was originally disclosed.

1. There is signs and proof that the camera man recording Arbery actually hit him with the vehicle.

2. The camera man driving the car & the McMicheal's also blocked Arbery off preventing him from leaving the community and forcing him back inside.

Those two facts change my opinion completely on this case.

Knowing that information now, there is no way you couldn't convict these guys of murder. They hit him with a car, they actively blocked him from leaving by using a car and guns. These guys went FAR beyond what is legal in Georgia.

the murder charges are justified.

The prosecutors letter was obliviously flawed, however at the time that was all the official information we had.

I was wrong and i'll own it.

Now lets hope a jury does the right thing and does not allow these guys to just get away with this. hitting this guy with a car and blocking him from leaving the community changes this whole thing completely and its no longer reasonable to even think self defense any more.

Again in light of this new information I was WRONG and i'll own it.
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