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This isn't the only writer tying Pettine to Gilbert and it probably won't be the last. I don't think it gives any indication at all that Petting personally made the pick of Gilbert. The reason they are saying it has 'Pettine's fingerprints all over it' is because Pettine likes have two shut-down corners, (who doesn't), to make his defense work the way it's designed. Pettine wants good corners. That's a given. But where is the evidence that Pettine made the call? It's not there. Not in that article anyway. It really doesn't matter. If Gibert had played to his potential and to what all the indicators said he would then both Farmer and Pettine would be called geniuses. Since he hasn't worked out as planned then they are a couple of 'non-talent evaluating goats'. Does it definitively confirm Pettine jumped up and grabbed the phone to call in the deal? No, of course not. But I, for one, with all the reoccurring reports on Pettine's involvement for Gilbert, cannot dismiss his participation. It's perfectly fine if you do.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Butch didn't really quit. He was run out of here by Collins.
Butch had a panic attack and quit. Link
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LOL..........I know about that. There is way more to the story.
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President of Football Operations-Bill Polian
General Manager/asst. president of football operations-Peyton Manning
Head Coach- Adam Gase
Offensive coordinator- Kliff Kingsbury ( Gregg Knapp)
Defensive Coordinator/ asst. head coach- Chuck Pagano Yes. Kliff Kingsbury is going to leave the head coaching job at his alma mater for our offensive coordinator job. Great.
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But I, for one, with all the reoccurring reports on Pettine's involvement for Gilbert, cannot dismiss his participation.
It's perfectly fine if you do.
Neither do I dismiss his participation. But I'm not going to take that bit that I do believe and expand it into a more speculative belief that he 'made the call', so to speak, that he made the 'decision', so to speak, to take over the GM duties by dictating a draft pick. I find it difficult that the first two picks, both in the 1st round, were made by people other than the GM. Around here we've got Pettine making the decision on the #8 pick and Haslem making the decision on the #22 pick. Where exactly does the GM figure in on these picks in his first ever draft since being named the GM? Sometimes speculations make sense when they're developed from an insightful bit of consideration while other times speculations are just a method used to attempt to place Blame on someone when something don't work out as hoped.
#gmstrong
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Texas tech is not exactly a top level program so he may, I don't know what his long term goals are. But also, money talks.This wasn't exactly meant to be a totally serious post just throwing out ideas trying create discussion since a lot of posters want to fire Farmer and Pettine.
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Texas tech is not exactly a top level program so he may, I don't know what his long term goals are. But also, money talks.This wasn't exactly meant to be a totally serious post just throwing out ideas trying create discussion since a lot of posters want to fire Farmer and Pettine. Got it. The Manning thing has been rumored for almost a year now. I think it is a longshot, but it would at least give the team credibility. If he comes, I think you are dead on in suggesting Adam Gase as the head coach. If Gase comes, I would expect Jim Bob Cooter as the offensive coordinator (nothing would make me happier).
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I recall Vers(?) giving a short list of coaches; Gruden, Saban, and Meyer.
That could be me or a coincidence as that was my short list of got to be a dynamic change not just a change.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Here is more suggestion Pettine actively WANTED Gilbert. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...6b-e3ce0a7a98b6One other thing regarding this quote: But I'm not going to take that bit that I do believe and expand it into a more speculative belief that he 'made the call', so to speak, that he made the 'decision', so to speak, to take over the GM duties by dictating a draft pick. I've never said Pettine made the call. I've said words/phrases like "tied to", "wanted" "liked", etc. Let's be clear, at least on Gilbert, Farmer MADE the call to draft Justin Gilbert. He's the one, IMO, who said (not in these exact words), "OK, you want him Mike, I'll make sure I get him for you." My biggest indictment on Farmer, as shown just a few posts above, and on other threads, is allowing others to influence his decisions. I think in his first year, he let that happen more than this past draft. I think Pettine speaking to Gilbert after being selected in the media link above provides significant evidence (perhaps even the most compelling) that he was lobbying for Justin Gilbert; that he WANTED Gilbert. He would do "a flip off the table" if Cleveland landed him. That influenced Farmer, which is his own fault, no doubt.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I don't give him much credit for the undrafted free agents. All teams need to sign their share to fill out the training camp roster. The undrafted free agent gets to choose what team he signs with. This has little to do with talent evaluation. It is luck that these guys picked us because their agents felt the Browns had the weakest roster at their position giving them the best chance at making the final roster.
If a GM thinks these guys are any good then they use a 6th/7th round draft pick on them
And how much does our poor drafting at the top make the UDFA guys look good? I mean think about it.. if we had Haden, and Gilbert was playing the way a first round pick should, and Desir was contributing like a 4th round pick (which I guess you can argue he is), even Gaines was drafted in the 6th round.. maybe we pick up Tramon Williams, maybe we don't... but if the draft picks (especially gilbert) were playing anywhere close to where the should be, would we be all excited about K Williams? Would he even be able to get on the field?
yebat' Putin
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I don't give him much credit for the undrafted free agents. All teams need to sign their share to fill out the training camp roster. The undrafted free agent gets to choose what team he signs with. This has little to do with talent evaluation. It is luck that these guys picked us because their agents felt the Browns had the weakest roster at their position giving them the best chance at making the final roster.
If a GM thinks these guys are any good then they use a 6th/7th round draft pick on them
And how much does our poor drafting at the top make the UDFA guys look good? I mean think about it.. if we had Haden, and Gilbert was playing the way a first round pick should, and Desir was contributing like a 4th round pick (which I guess you can argue he is), even Gaines was drafted in the 6th round.. maybe we pick up Tramon Williams, maybe we don't... but if the draft picks (especially gilbert) were playing anywhere close to where the should be, would we be all excited about K Williams? Would he even be able to get on the field? Williams is actually a good player and not someone who is only playing because others players stink.
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This is the way it's supposed to work with most organizations.
1) GM finalizes draft board.
2) GM talks to coach. "Give me your shopping list in order of importance"
3) GM tries to fill that list without going off his draft board.
Coaches rarely give names unless they flat out see someone that is perfect for their system.
The shopping list usually looks more like...
1) A 5 technique.
2) A man technique corner.
3) 3rd down RB
etc...
Does anyone remember when we gave Ngata to Baltimore for peanuts?
Savage asked Romeo if he'd rather have a pass rusher or a run stuffer. We got stuck with Wimbley and Baltimore got one of the best d-lineman in football at the time.
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This is a good post. Nice job.
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As ClevelandBrowns.com's Vic Carucci notes, Pettine wanted the tallest, first-round graded cornerback he could get and Gilbert fits that mold. Sounds like a little confusion in what he was asking for, although Farmer may have simply blindly given him what he asked for. It seems that a follow-up question of "Hey Pett, don't you mean the highest rated tall CB in the first round?". It may sound like semantics, but it's kinda a big difference.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Wasn't Gilbert the highest CB prospect in the 2014 draft? I could be mistaken, but I thought he was seen coming out like Shelton was as a DL in the 2015 draft. I'm not a Farmer apologist, nor do I defend the guy often; however, I thought Gilbert was a safe pick as a cover corner opposite of Haden.
Last edited by HewDawg; 11/19/15 06:47 PM.
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I have no idea, I don't really follow the draft - I was just commenting on the wording of Pett's alleged request and thought that perhaps it was worded backwards, heh
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I thought the Dennard from Michigan State was generally regarded as the best cb in the draft?????
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I thought the Dennard from Michigan State was generally regarded as the best cb in the draft????? From what I saw on various sites was that both Gilbert and Fuller were the highest rated CB's. Dennard was close though...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I thought the Dennard from Michigan State was generally regarded as the best cb in the draft????? People were split - though I'd say 60%/40% in favor of Gilbert..... Gilbert was widely viewed as the better man coverage CB, and Dennard was viewed as better in the zone.
~Lyuokdea
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I know that I liked Dennard a lot. He isn't a starter, either. I really never heard much about Gilber. After we drafted him, I read some articles and he sounded good. I said it might be a good pick based off of those articles, but I had never really watched the guy. Then Mourg sent me some video and I saw that Gilber was a terrible tackler and had stiff hips. Not a good combination.
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I would have picked Gilbert too.. it was the most logical pick. Stop hating on Farmer for making the selection, and hate on Gilbert for not stepping up.
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Yeah, Farmer is a God!
All I know is what I just said..........after watching the tape that Mourg sent me, I soured on him. Again, I read his write-ups from the so-called experts after we drafted him and he sounded good, but AFTER I ACTUALLY saw the tape..........I saw he had major flaws in his game. He is NOT a man corner. At best, he is a zone corner who could break on the ball. He just doesn't have the agility or the hips to play man very well.
And if a putz like me and a guy like Mourg can see that, what the hell does that say about Farmer?
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by that logic, what does that say about the rest of the GM's in the league, never mind farmer?
did you see 15's links? everybody had Gilbert as the best CB in the draft.
that means pretty much any GM not named Farmer, needing a CB, would've made that pick as well.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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What 15 links?
Are you saying that 15 GMs had Gilber as their number one corner?
Or 15 draft sites?
Not sure what you mean. I didn't see that.
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15's link.
i just shorted it instead of typing's cfrs15's entire screen name
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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by that logic, what does that say about the rest of the GM's in the league, never mind farmer?
did you see 15's links? everybody had Gilbert as the best CB in the draft.
that means pretty much any GM not named Farmer, needing a CB, would've made that pick as well. He pretends like he ignores me.
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I recall Vers(?) giving a short list of coaches; Gruden, Saban, and Meyer.
That could be me or a coincidence as that was my short list of got to be a dynamic change not just a change.
jmho I wasn't sure if it was Vers, hence the parenthetical question mark. I didn't think it important enough to spend a bunch of time sifting through all the threads to find the specific reference. If it was you, I apologize.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Oh, I have him on ignore.
Did he post comments from real GMs? Seriously? That's kinda hard to believe. GMs really don't ever divulge who their top guys are. Did he give actual quotes from real GMs?
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Oh, I have him on ignore.
Did he post comments from real GMs? Seriously? That's kinda hard to believe. GMs really don't ever divulge who their top guys are. Did he give actual quotes from real GMs? You know exactly what he linked to. You saw it.
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I would have picked Gilbert too.. it was the most logical pick. Stop hating on Farmer for making the selection, and hate on Gilbert for not stepping up. That's my thought on the Gilbert selection. I fault Farmer for not addressing a WR and bringing in guys like Erving, West, and Mayle. Not to mention the embarrassment of Dwayne Bowe.
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Gilbert is a Porsche with a Yugo engine.
You can't take him to the shop and replace his brain though.
Last edited by DeputyDawg; 11/19/15 09:39 PM.
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Under the radar college coach wish list (by under the radar I mean guys not normally associated with NFL jobs):
Tom Herman - Houston (only under the radar because he hasn't got the big job yet)
Gary Patterson - TCU
Matt Wells - Utah State
Bronco Mendenhall - BYU
Kyle Whittingham - Utah
Also, Jim Mora might have the itch to go back to the NFL, but I don't see him leaving will he has Josh Rosen. Mora is a real hard butt, but he has a good message (people here in LA love him).
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No need to apologize...I didn't even know if you were slamming the comment or praising. Just saw the ??? on who and thought possibly it was me. I think Vers has stated ONE NAME... SABAN, his list is shorter than mine...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I would have picked Gilbert too.. it was the most logical pick. Stop hating on Farmer for making the selection, and hate on Gilbert for not stepping up. That's my thought on the Gilbert selection. I fault Farmer for not addressing a WR and bringing in guys like Erving, West, and Mayle. Not to mention the embarrassment of Dwayne Bowe. Exactly. If we don't invest high in a WR this year, I'm gonna be pissed... Gotta get Manziel (or whoever) more threats at WR. Can't expect much from Gabriel/Hawkins.
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The rap on Gilbert was that he could not tackle.
He was considered as a guy with natural talent but was not a physical player.
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/05...y_justin_g.html
Kyle Fuller was the guy that stood out.
Good size and he seemed to fit better given what the Browns appeared to want from a corner.
Gilbert was in the mix but he was not unanimous pick.
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Hopefully whoever we hire to run this team doesn't say this: New Lions president Rod Wood: "I would probably say that I'm not qualified to run any other NFL team but I think I'm qualified to run this one"
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The comments to that are priceless.
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Geez... that's just amazingly stupid. Holy smokes..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It's Time to Fire Pettine and
Farmer.
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