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Ray Horton was that dude.. Defense really showed up for him too! If we can get him. omg. I'd be stoked. I've been hard on Banner for letting Horton go and very judgmental of Pettine because of the severe drop off from the performance of the defense between 2013 and 2014. We were a top 10 defense under Horton and primarily lost games that year because of the ineptitude of the offense, namely Brandon Weeden. I've been singing the "wish we had Horton" song since seeing Pettine and Oneil's clown show the last 2 years. With that, I'd be stoked to have Ray back and truly on cloud nine with this new coaching staff!!
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It has been reported that Hue will call his own plays. I doubt that Flip will want to work under those restrictions ... but I would be happy if he would stay. I also hope that we keep our QB coach. I think that he did a great job getting 3 different QBs ready to play. \ In his introductory presser, Hue said he loves calling plays but that depending on who he hires as his OC, it might change and he'd move out of the way. So if he wants Flip and Flip wants to call plays, I don't think that would be a stumbling block. I want Hue Jackson calling plays. The thing about play calling is it takes good players on the field to make those plays work. Had Jackson been in Cleveland the last couple of years, people would probably be complaining about him not being able to call plays. Just saying....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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People were lambasting Arians when he was here. Even a great chef can't make gourmet food if they don't have the key ingredients. Arians would have been a fantastic HC and wanted to be here. Oh well. Jackson looks the real deal, did OK at Oakland for my money. Good luck Hue 
Last edited by drobs; 01/15/16 07:51 AM.
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I think Flip was pass heavy because Crowell is not that good, and Duke is not a prototypical every-down back. Didn't seem to be a problem the year before.... We went from 16 rushing TD's to 5. For most of the season that number stood at 2. Flip just didn't try to run the ball. No attempt was made to develop that aspect of the offense at any time this season. To run the ball you have to WANT to run the ball. It has to be a priority. In 2014 we ran the ball 29.81 times per game and averaged 3.6 yards per carry. In 2014 we can the ball 23.75 times for game and averaged 4.0 yards per carry. We only ran for an extra 12.4 yards per game in 2014.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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"Bob Wylie as offensive line coach"
Coach Wylie has acool gig going on right now down in Cincy.
You sure? I think he is coaching for Winnipeg Blue Bombers. He is.I was referring to that fact that runs the COOL Clinic down there.Cool = Coaches Of Ofensive Linemen. I found it odd that you would reccomend him,is there some connection?
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I think Flip was pass heavy because Crowell is not that good, and Duke is not a prototypical every-down back. Didn't seem to be a problem the year before.... We went from 16 rushing TD's to 5. For most of the season that number stood at 2. Flip just didn't try to run the ball. No attempt was made to develop that aspect of the offense at any time this season. To run the ball you have to WANT to run the ball. It has to be a priority. In 2014 we ran the ball 29.81 times per game and averaged 3.6 yards per carry. In 2014 we can the ball 23.75 times for game and averaged 4.0 yards per carry. We only ran for an extra 12.4 yards per game in 2014. Is that you, Paul DePodesta? 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I think Flip was pass heavy because Crowell is not that good, and Duke is not a prototypical every-down back. Crow played pretty bad. Too many times he let the first guy bring him down. Too many times... Loved him last year, but he showed absolutely no reason to continue that. We need a real back. As stated above, Duke isn't your every down back. Saw him getting up extra slow a lot. He just doesn't have the frame, but he can catch, run in and outside the tackles and his pass protection from what I saw was decent. He's a superb complementary back.
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Cro has a nose for the end zone, so he has that going for him. I don't think we necessarily get rid of him, but he's thoroughly average. If that.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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jc...
The Browns need to look at RBs who have cut back capability. That requires a RB with outstanding vision and good decision making capabilities.
Many times the defenses sold out to stop the Browns running game at the point of attack, leaving the cut back lanes wide open. There were opportunities for some big running plays that Browns RBs did not take advantage of.
A good cut back runner would help to keep defenses honest. HJ is an experienced RB coach in college and at the Pro level, as recent as 2013. I would expect HJs knowledge and teaching ability to be a real asset to Crow, Duke and the other RBs on the roster.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Cro has a nose for the end zone, so he has that going for him. I don't think we necessarily get rid of him, but he's thoroughly average. If that. Yeah when he does break free, he's dangerous. I wasn't saying to axe him, but I don't think he's a starting running back that'll strike fear in defenses.
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I like the attack 3-4 D and I liked Horton...not many times a team gets a coach back in the same capacity with a different regime.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Cro has a nose for the end zone, so he has that going for him. I don't think we necessarily get rid of him, but he's thoroughly average. If that. Yeah when he does break free, he's dangerous. I wasn't saying to axe him, but I don't think he's a starting running back that'll strike fear in defenses. I'd like to see Hue Jacksons opinion of Cro. I don't know for sure, but he seems to be a guy that knows how to get a RB room to roam. We'll see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ray Horton was that dude.. Defense really showed up for him too! If we can get him. omg. I'd be stoked. I've been hard on Banner for letting Horton go and very judgmental of Pettine because of the severe drop off from the performance of the defense between 2013 and 2014. We were a top 10 defense under Horton and primarily lost games that year because of the ineptitude of the offense, namely Brandon Weeden. I've been singing the "wish we had Horton" song since seeing Pettine and Oneil's clown show the last 2 years. With that, I'd be stoked to have Ray back and truly on cloud nine with this new coaching staff!! We scored more points in 2013 than in any season from 2008 to present. (308, yeah, it's pathetic, but it is still the best output over that time) We also allowed more points in 2013 (406) than any Browns defense from 2001 to 2014. We did break that "record" this past season with 432 points allowed. There were 4 opponent "return" TD (INT, Fumble, Punt)in there, but still, we have those almost every year. (we had 4 this past year as well) We were awful in the red zone, and on 3rd down under Horton. This past season was like more of the same. I think that time has been kinder to some peoples' memories of his defense than his defense deserved.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Also was my thinking. That's why I'm really curious about Jackson's handling of the offensive line in Cinci. They also have a very talented group, so it would be great to hear someone more knowledgeable talk about what Cinci did in the trenches under Hue.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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The Browns announced today that special teams coach Chris Tabor is being retained #Browns #Hue Been w team since 2011 Smart move!!!
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Also was my thinking. That's why I'm really curious about Jackson's handling of the offensive line in Cinci. They also have a very talented group, so it would be great to hear someone more knowledgeable Make of it what you will, but Andrew Whitworth gave VERY high praise to Jackson. I would think the players evaluation of a former coach would mean something. If that's the case, then it bodes well for Jackson.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/15/16 01:51 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We also allowed more points in 2013 (406) than any Browns defense from 2001 to 2014. We did break that "record" this past season with 432 points allowed. There were 4 opponent "return" TD (INT, Fumble, Punt)in there, but still, we have those almost every year. (we had 4 this past year as well)
We were awful in the red zone, and on 3rd down under Horton. This past season was like more of the same. I think that time has been kinder to some peoples' memories of his defense than his defense deserved. We were also 9th in the NFL in yards allowed and 3rd in the NFL in yards allowed per play
yebat' Putin
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Tabor is like a cockroach!
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OP
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Minnesota running backs coach Kirby Wilson will join the Cleveland Browns as running game coordinator if the Vikings approve the move.
The Browns have contacted the Vikings, saying they want to hire Wilson under new coach Hue Jackson. Because Wilson is under contract and is not taking a job as a head coach, the Vikings would have to allow the move.
“Everything is set if they approve it,’’ John Wooten, chairman of the Fritz Pollard Alliance, which promotes minority hiring in the NFL, said Friday. ‘That’s the guy Cleveland wants. Kirby would coordinator their running game and it would put Kirby in a position to move up the line (in coaching).’’
Wooten had planned to talk to Vikings general manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer later Friday to push for Wilson, 54, to be allowed to take the job.
“It’s not a lateral move,’’ Wooten said. “We hope the Vikings will give their blessing.’’
Wilson has been with the Vikings the past two seasons. Before that, he was Pittsburgh’s running backs coach for seven years.
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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We also allowed more points in 2013 (406) than any Browns defense from 2001 to 2014. We did break that "record" this past season with 432 points allowed. There were 4 opponent "return" TD (INT, Fumble, Punt)in there, but still, we have those almost every year. (we had 4 this past year as well)
We were awful in the red zone, and on 3rd down under Horton. This past season was like more of the same. I think that time has been kinder to some peoples' memories of his defense than his defense deserved. We were also 9th in the NFL in yards allowed and 3rd in the NFL in yards allowed per play Yep, and we also had 40 sacks. That still doesn't change the fact that our defense was still horribly ineffective at important times. (3rd down and red zone) We still allowed more points that year than most other Browns teams from 1999-2014 did. I am just really not a fan of bringing Horton back. I want a team that can defend the red zone, and can get off the field on 3rd down.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Browns announced today that special teams coach Chris Tabor is being retained #Browns #Hue Been w team since 2011 Smart move!!! Wow. He was originally not retained by the team. I hope we keep Flip. I think that he is a really bright offensive mind. I actually think that we had a good offensive staff this past season. Defense really let us down.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I also just read that this will be Tabor's 4th head coach. lol I knew that he had been around under a few, but he has worked under Shurmur, Chud, Pettine, and now Jackson.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dick Jauron had this team balling, in his boring bend dont break 4-3. horton came in turned the dawgs loose and we were flawless for 2 out of 3 downs lol. its just that 3rd one was a mudder lol
Last edited by Mourgrym; 01/15/16 01:45 PM.
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The Browns announced today that special teams coach Chris Tabor is being retained #Browns #Hue Been w team since 2011 Smart move!!! This man will not die.
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The Browns announced today that special teams coach Chris Tabor is being retained #Browns #Hue Been w team since 2011 Smart move!!! This man will not die. Hopefully he can give Hue advice as to how to remain with the team for more than a couple of years. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't remember stats nor use them when I can see.
I just personally like an attack style D similar to the Steeler's of recent glory years not what they got now.
You need to build around it. I love when there is some point trying to be made with a defense that got one season to work with...no continuity not building of talent around the D scheme. I'm talking more than 1 year build.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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How does this guy continue to keep his job? Ridiculous
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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because he is one of the best special teams coaches in all of football. We are always at or near the top in pretty much every special teams stat. The failures have come from rookies making mistakes. The guy can coach.You just dont see a lot of folks year 2 of this system making mistakes.
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How does this guy continue to keep his job? Ridiculous Oh, I don't know.... He's good.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I heard he parties with Keith Richards on weekends . . .
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I thought it was already announced that O'Neil and Tabor were let go. ???
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I think I'm going to stop listening to ESPN...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Grossi is their Cleveland guy lol, i know 20 people on this board that gets better info. Grossi's inside source is following LaCanfora on twitter lol
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I thought it was already announced that O'Neil and Tabor were let go. ???
jmho He was one of the coaches who were not asked to stay initially, but Hue asked him to stay after he got the head coach job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"Bob Wylie as offensive line coach"
Coach Wylie has acool gig going on right now down in Cincy.
You sure? I think he is coaching for Winnipeg Blue Bombers. He is.I was referring to that fact that runs the COOL Clinic down there.Cool = Coaches Of Ofensive Linemen. I found it odd that you would reccomend him,is there some connection? He was with Hue in Oakland. Bob Wylie has been around for ever. His O-lines produced very favoriable run game results 90's through early 2000. I was wondering what "cool" stood for. I was afraid I missed a punch line when I posted!
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Seattle runs a vanilla 4-3 defense. Nothing complicated about what they do. Seattle has some pretty good LBs and DBs to overcome that front-four's weaknesses. Rube is a good player but lost a step or two. He is the cornerstone on that line. I'm happy Rube found a place that he is perfectly suited. Take Sheard moving to New England. Again, Sheard is part of package set. Love seeing Cleveland moving in that direction. Let game dictate package sets and have personal who can play that role. Having a one size fits all leaves you vulnerable. Cleveland has a lot of combinations they can use. Trouble is they are young and need more experience. I think they need more help at LB too.
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All Pro
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How does this guy continue to keep his job? Ridiculous And why shouldn't he?
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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