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I really thought Hue and Flip may have been able to work together.

Seeing Hue wants to play call, it would have held Flip back. I'm not sure if it would have been a good learning experience for Flip to stick around for a season or two under Hue.

One thing is getting a person in place that is good, and that will be around for a couple seasons. If Flip did stay, I would imagine it would have been for just one season.

That would leave for another change in the coaching staff. It would be nice to see things turn around and at the same time create some continuity...

Flip was just let go.

Tried to copy and paste Caplan tweet unsuccessfully.

Already posted on the previous page.

I feel bad for guys like Flip. He's a competent guy who hitched his wagon to a moron.

I wonder if Pett even gives two craps that his actions got a lot of people fired.

I've done that twice in the last 24 hours.

I'm a bit under the weather. I'm going with that.

Damn I didn't think this was getting announced till this afternoon.

Just for the record I'm 100 percent against this and think we will regret it.

Pett is far from a Moron. Does he give a crap, hell yes he does. The coaches on the staff will still be friends long after you forget about them.

Jester, it is always good to say apply pressure, but it is simply egg vs chicken argument. If DBs can't cover, QBs complete their throws in less than 3 seconds. If DBs can cover, it allows enough time to apply pressure.

Cleveland's biggest problem is applying coverage. QBs dink and dunk the defense with simply 5-10 yard passes. It eats clock sustains long drives. Once inside the twenty, they overwhelm the secondary with TE and WRs.

As for the argument 4-3 is simple, this is absolutely true, but it comes with a cost. Being simple means you need talent to play it. 3-4 is more complex but it allows a team to play with less talent. Teams who effectively use the 3-4 usually have multiple packages creating more confusion. Teams effectively use the 4-3 usually has have a high dollar investment in their front four.

Seattle created an unique situation which went against the traditional 4-3. They created a solid DB scheme applying talent there. I will bet analytics played an important role in this decision.

Carolina did one better. They were able to great a great front four and strong secondary.

We won't have an offensive coordinator in title, but whoever it is will be doing much of the same work as an offensive coordinator.

I think Hue is hiring a running back and receiver coordinator. I guess similar to Dallas.

With Hue calling the plays, this isn't a shocker. Good luck, Flip.

You can't have completely incompetent Db's but getting consistent pressure on the Qb can turn an adequate Cb into a good one and a good one into a star.

Even if you have 2 greatCb's and 2 great safeties, if you don't get pressure on the Qb then a Wr is going to get open or a defensive flag thrown.

Did you ask him if he gave a crap?

Drafting Bosa would be a great first step in having the talent to run an effective 4-3. Besides that, I don't really agree that a 4-3 requires more talent than a 3-4. If anything, the 3-4 requires more physical freaks than a 4-3, IMO. You need a monstrous NT that can take on two or three blockers, but still have the quicks to move laterally. You need two OLBs that can not only overpower an OT, but still be able to drop into coverage vs RBs and TEs. You need quicker ILBs that can take on OL blockers at the 2nd level and still make tackles. I've argued here before that IMO, a good 3-4 is harder to populate than a good 4-3. I know there's some smart posters here that disagree, but its what I think.



If I'm not mistaken, the Browns invested more money on the defensive front 7 than any other team in the league. They have not gotten their money's worth.

Well, I am really disappointed that Flip won't be back. I think that he is a really good offensive coach, and he got 4000 yards passing and 1500 yards rushing on offense for only the 4th time in our team's history. People can knock him for some rookie difficulties he had, but the man did a great job, especially given what he had to work with.

However, once we hired Hue, and he announced that he was going to call plays, I knew that Flip was done here. I think that he will do well in the NFL though, and I suspect that he will be snapped up within a few days.

I like Flip and think he has a bright future as well.

With that said, I also understand Jackson's want to bring his own people to the team. We need everyone on the same page, the last thing we should want is an offensive coordinator foisted upon our new head coach.

j/c

So let me see if I get this straight...

We'll have an offensive coordinator who does the job but won't have the title.
We'll have a GM who has the title but won't do the job.
We have a head coach who will actually be the offensive coordinator.
We have a running backs coach who is going to be doing...something.
And we're being run by a lawyer named Sushi and a guy from MLB.

Did I miss anything?

When do we hire the bus driver in title who will actually serve the hot dogs?

Back to the running game coordinator drawing board...for now.

Report: Vikings block Kirby Wilson from going to Browns

After the Browns hired Hue Jackson as their head coach, there was a report that they wanted to hire Vikings running backs coach Kirby Wilson as their running game coordinator.

That move would require the permission of the Vikings as Wilson is under contract in Minnesota and it doesn’t look like the Vikings want Wilson to head elsewhere. Josina Anderson of ESPN reports that the Vikings have blocked Wilson from making the move “at this time.”

While that final note suggests something might change about their decision, it would likely need to happen quickly as the Browns will have to move on to other options before too much longer. Wilson has spent the last two years with the Vikings after seven years on the staff in Pittsburgh.

Link

Looks like Pep is close to signing a deal with the Browns.

Straight from everyone's favorite beat reporter...


Mary Kay Cabot Verified account
@MaryKayCabot
#Browns are in negotiations with former #Colts OC Pep Hamilton to become Assistant head coach/Offense. Hue Jackson will call plays

Tweet

I think Pep Hamilton is a good coach. He got caught up in the testicle swinging of Pagano and Grigson.

If we did try to hire Lovie, would the Bucs still have to pay him? If not, it might be a deal breaker for Lovie.

They just have to pay him whatever is left over on his contract.

For example, let's say he was making $5 million. If we pay him $1 million, then the Bucs would still owe him $4 million.

Ok thanks.

That's the same horse crap we've been hearing for years. I want to run one system WELL. For a long time now we keep hearing about the awesome 3-4. Romeo, Mangini, Horton and finally Pettine. Tell me how fricking awesome those D's were. I'll tell you what, when we have Bill Belichick as our Coach we can do what New Engald does. Until then it's stupid trying to emulate them. There is ONE Bill Belichick. Period. Just because something works in New England doesn't mean it will work here.

If we hire Horton he's not going to run a hybrid. He's going to run his defense. And that would be better than trying to run some hybrid. But I am damned tired of the NPD 3-4. We're going to hire another 3-4 guy? Then we better DRAFT SOME LINEBACKERS. HIGH in the draft. And not just ONE. A complete overhaul of the position. I just prefer ending the madness and going with the tried and true four man front....

If Coach Jackson really wants him he could always name him OC and then they couldn't block the move. Jackson could still call the plays. Would mean an increase in pay probably.

Any coaching move that is not to head coach is considered a lateral move. So they can block it even if it is to become offensive coordinator.

Absolutely correct cfrs.

What I have come across if that Wilson is currently under contract but that contract MAY be completed in the near future. My interpretation is that he is under contract through the end of the NFL year. They are blocking him "for now" in hopes of keeping him. Are we willing to wait until March to hire him? Perhaps, if there isa wink and nod agreement.

That would be a worst case scenario for Lovie. Depending on how his contract was written it's possible that he could get full payment from us and full payment from the Bucs.

What you describe though seems to be the most common contract situation for NFL head coaches.

Can't argue with a single thing you said.

One of the complaints heard out of this year's D was that players didn't know or understand their roles. It was too confusing to too many players to work very well. I think I noticed an improvement in D production i the last 1/4 of the season, but by then, it was too little/too late.

I agree that a simple plan is best when just starting out. Let the players learn their roles so that they aren't still thinking in Week 6. You can add layers of wrinkles/sophistication later... after your D shows that it knows what it's doing.

Start simple.
Get everyone on the same page.
Get 'cute' later.

This team needs an 'NFL 101/Defense' MUCH more than it needs a 'tricky' playbook...




.02

Mary Kay Cabot Retweeted Josina Anderson

Hue Jackson really wanted him and Fritz Pollard's John Wooten told me Wilson really wanted the # Browns job

Mary Kay Cabot ‏ @ MaryKayCabot 17s 17 seconds ago

Fritz Pollard's John Wooten will lobby # Vikings to let Kirby Wilson take # Browns running game coordinator job despite fact request denied

Miss anything, no not really, Misread, misconstrue, miss spell, yup.. you did a lot of that.

Ray Horton still Browns' top DC target; Pep Hamilton in talks as assistant HC


updated January 16, 2016 at 9:16 PM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Ray Horton was passed over for the Titans' head coaching job Saturday and is still Hue Jackson's top target as defensive coordinator.

Horton, who's run the Titans' defense the past two seasons, interviewed for their head job in the morning -- hours before interim coach Mike Mularkey was named Ken Whisenhunt's successor. Mularkey might ask Horton to remain, but Horton's preference is to return to Cleveland, according to John Wooten of the Fritz Pollard Alliance to promote NFL minority hiring.

Horton, who ran the Browns' defense in 2013, has been Jackson's top choice from the start. Former Bucs coordinator Leslie Frazier was also on his radar, but took the Ravens' secondary job Friday.

Horton is still under contract with the Titans and would have to get permission to leave.

Meanwhile, former Colts offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton, who was fired in November, is in negotiations to become Assistant Head Coach/Offense, a source said. Jackson said this week he'll likely call his own plays, but wants to groom Hamilton for that role so he can join the pipeline of future NFL coaches.

Jackson also hopes to hire Vikings running backs coach Kirby Wilson as his running game coordinator. Wilson's contract is believed to be up soon. The Browns have also talked to former Colts offensive line coach Hal Hunter for a similar position. He's the son of former Browns offensive line coach Hal Hunter.

Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo was informed by the club on Saturday morning that he will not be retained, a source told cleveland.com.

Former offensive coordinator John DeFilippo, who has two years remaining on his contract, has an opportunity to become the Rams' passing game coordinator.

Jackson has retained Browns special teams coordinator Chris Tabor, who's survived three coaching changes.

Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' Hue Jackson's priorities, Phil Dawson, and defense -- Terry Pluto


By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on January 16, 2016 at 9:20 AM, updated January 16, 2016 at 12:07 PM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hue Jackson was the quarterback coach when Joe Flacco was a rookie with Baltimore in 2008.

Jackson and Flacco spent two years together. Cam Cameron was the offensive coordinator. At times, Cameron was the bad cop to Flacco, Jackson the good cop.

One of Jackson's gifts is building up the confidence of a quarterback. He did it with Andy Dalton in Cincinnati. He did it with Jason Campbell in Oakland. In two years with Jackson (one as head coach, one as offensive coordinator), Campbell had an 11-7 record as a starter.

I talked to some people in Baltimore and they told me that Jackson had a major impact on helping Flacco adjust from playing at Delaware to being a Day 1 starter as a rookie for the Ravens.

I checked several scouting reports from 2008 when Flacco was in the draft. They all liked his arm strength and size. But all also questioned his ability to play in an NFL offense. In it's "Negatives" section on Flacco, CBS Sports wrote:

"Slow-footed moving around in the pocket and despite running for nine touchdowns, he is not a threat carrying the ball (had success vs. mediocre competition). Lacks the hip snap and lateral agility to sidestep and avoid the pass rush.

"Needs to do a better job of looking off his primary target and scan the field to find other outlets. Operates out of the shotgun mostly, and does not show a good drive back from center to his pass set point. Looks very awkward trying to roll out and throw on the move. Must refine his footwork."

That's where Jackson took over, teaching Flacco the proper footwork. It's not easy for quarterbacks to learn how to take snaps under center and drop back to throw at the NFL level. Jackson taught that to Flacco.

Flacco had the raw ability. One scouting report compared him to Derek Anderson. But it was Jackson and other coaches who helped turn him into a top-flight quarterback. In 2014, Ravens coach John Harbaugh told reporters that Jackson "did a ton to help Flacco."

ABOUT DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR

By far, the most important decision Jackson will make is picking his defensive coordinator. Jackson is a coach who thinks offense and quarterbacks first. At his press conference, I asked him about calling plays. He admitted that "I love calling plays ... but I'm going to do whatever is the right thing for this organization."

If you had to bet, put your money on Jackson calling plays. That's why he needs a strong defensive coordinator. That man will be the head coach of the defense. I was told he wanted to hire Vance Joseph. But the Bengals' defensive backs coach was hired first by new Miami coach Adam Gase.

A familiar name has surfaced -- Ray Horton.

1. Browns fans know Horton, who was defensive coordinator here in 2013. At that point, he was a hot head coaching candidate. Some numbers were good: 18th against the run, ninth overall. But they were No. 29 in the red zone (preventing touchdowns) and allowed more fourth-quarter points than any other team.

2. After that Browns staff was fired, Horton landed as Tennessee's defensive coordinator. The Titans have ranked 23rd and 29th in the last two seasons. They were No. 26 and No. 24 in the red zone.

3. Since the Browns are deep into analytics these days, let's look at Football Outsiders -- one of the pioneers of the subject. They have a formula called "Overall Defensive Efficiency." Horton's defense ranked No. 23 and No. 29. The Browns ranked 29th (2015) and No. 11 (2014).

4. A lot is obviously based on talent. When Horton was in Arizona (2011-12), he had high ranking defenses. I like Horton over former Browns defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil, but I hope Jackson really works hard for the best candidate. The defense was a disaster in 2015.

JACKSON'S PRIORITIES

Jackson has been making the rounds of talk shows, and I was intrigued by what he told Kiley & Carmen on 92.3 FM, The Fan. After quarterback, he listed these three positions as the most important (I'm assuming on offense):

Left tackle.
Wide receiver.
Running back.
By that list, he'll begin courting Joe Thomas, who has three more years on his contract. After the season, a discouraged Thomas said he may ask for a trade. He is the team's senior member, with the Browns since 2007.

At his press conference, Jackson gushed about Thomas. He explained: "I can't wait to have the opportunity to talk to him, to give him our plan ... I believe in my heart, that he's going to get excited about what we're trying to accomplish."

This could be one of the first interesting roster discussions between Jackson and the new front office. Jackson called Thomas "a tremendous football player." But the analytics might say it's wise to trade a 31-year-old left tackle at his peak for draft picks when you're trying to dig out of the rubble of a 3-13 record.

Jackson also mentioned the need for big wide receivers who can be a deep threat ... amen to that! He also sounded intrigued by running backs Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson.

ABOUT THE BROWNS:

1. Glad to see they retained special teams coordinator Chris Tabor. He has grown with the job, which he has held since 2011. He was able to get Travis Benjamin back on track as a return man. I'd love to see a new kicker.

2. Phil Dawson is a free agent. Yes, I want him back. Dawson was 24-of-27 on field goals, two blocked. He was 3-of-3 from at least 50 yards. In his three years with the 49ers, Dawson was 14-of-18 from at least 50 yards. At the age of 40, Dawson was named the MVP of 49ers this season!

3. Travis Coons made every field goal for the Browns ... except the four that were blocked. And his inability to kick deep (without being blocked) meant the Browns didn't try long field goals. He was 0-of-2 from 50 yards. It's why I prefer Dawson.

4. I will be speaking at Grace Church in Berea on Saturday, Jan. 23. It's a men's breakfast that starts at 7:30 a.m. This will primarily be a faith-based talk.

5. I will be speaking at Stow Library on Tuesday, Feb. 9, at 7 p.m. It's free. This will mostly be sports. You can register online or call 330-688-3295.

The few thoughts that I have are these:

Haslam is the horse’s ass, no nice way to say that.

On the other hand he recognizes NOW (too late) how he failed and make no mistake he failed on many levels the most important roll of the owner is to stay balanced and to monitor the HC and GM and make sure they are working well together and he failed at that twice. I strongly suspect he played one against the other and in doing so widened the gap.

I have little hope at this juncture because it appears the organization is once again set to re-build and what that really means is flip the roster. It’s not that changes don’t need to be made to the roster but those changes need to be measured and they need to adopt a more pedestrian pace to those changes.

At the risk of repeating myself roster flipping or swapping out B talent for B talent is the A ticket to losing and it truly is overreacting and it’s the killer formula we have followed oh so many times. You stop that and you give yourself the best possible chance to win. Changes to the roster need to be made incrementally and they need to be done methodically. Change for the sake of change is failure in waiting.

It’s about simply asking yourself where we can do the most good this off season in terms of changes to the roster. Then waiting to see if those changes bring about the results you’re looking for. We don’t ever wait long enough to see the results of the changes we make and what it really does is it accelerates and brings about more change and the results have always ended in disaster.

Simply put you end wholesale changes and the losing will stop. The failures of the past haven’t been because of poor coaching choices they have been from roster flipping that follows coaching/GM changes. I think we will do what we have always done and get what we have always gotten.

There are NO simple overnight answers. The simple truth is regardless of system the longer a group of players play together the better they will be. Incremental changes targeted changes will get you there but you have to be patient. Re-sign your players heading into their second contracts keep your home grown talent even if they’re not ideal talent. That doesn’t mean overpay its just placing value on the continuity that comes from familiarity with playing alongside a guy from one year to the next. Look at the good football teams they don’t swap out B talent they truly upgrade or they stand pat because the value of a player who may not be the greatest talent is familiarity with the guys on the field he with them and them with he. When you swap out B for B you lose that continuity, and team regresses, its just that simple.

Teams DON’T get better thru FA for that very reason. How many times have we seen teams throw large chucks of money at FA who are great players and never get the results? Too many times to count right? Ever stop to wonder WHY that is so?

I like the HJ hire he is a solid coach and that will always be so no matter the results a year from now or 2 years from now.

I don’t like the structure but I like the fact that; be it the coach hired first or the GM hired 1st it has a chance if the GM and HC truly are on the same page, of course we won’t know until much later on if that is or isn’t true. Hiring a GM/HC separately and then marrying them up is nearly always a recipe for failure.

I do know this Haslam has to be the guy that keeps everyone focused on working together if he fails at that again and I have every reason to believe he will, will be doing this yet again in the not so distant future. The one correction that needed to be made was the approach of Haslam and until or if that changes the results will be the same. He came here saying he strongly believed in continuity and from every angle he has shown by deed that is horse !@#$ pure and simple.

I'm getting really tired of the Joe Thomas talk. "Court" Joe Thomas? Every media outlet makes it sound like he can leave -h e may want to leave, but he cannot leave unless he retires. I agree to try and make him happy and buy in, but this nonsense making it sound like he has some sort of option to go drives me nuts.