Actually, nobody is kicking him when he's down. It's simply a matter of looking at and recognizing that he has an issue with alcohol. I'm sure that DC would agree with me that the hope is he will overcome it and be the best QB and man that he can be.
You see, Tab seems to be in denial that he even has a problem and wanted evidence. Reporting the facts about a situation isn't "kicking a man when he's down". It's looking at the reality of a given situation.
We didn't create the situation and the things being discussed came from his own fathers mouth and is fact based only.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog Keep kicking a man when he is down. Gutty.
Actually, nobody is kicking him when he's down. It's simply a matter of looking at and recognizing that he has an issue with alcohol.
Actually.......how many times can you talk about the same infractions before enough is enough. You kicked his butt. Do you have to keep kicking him?
Think about this, Pit.............who was harder on Farmer than me? I ripped him all the time, but man, the guy got fired and has taken his fair share of abuse. Do you see me gloating over the fact that he has fallen so far? Do you see me kicking him when he is down?
Enough is enough!!!
Haslam is a freaking crook. He has changed his story/or lied---depending on your viewpoint numerous times. The team has failed under his leadership. I pointed out his transgressions and the mob mocks me and ignores his practices. Yet, JM continually gets beat up for stories that are old and for some that are only rumors.
My debate with Tab was to point out the pattern to show JFF has an alcohol problem. If you don't care for that, maybe you should get Tab to quit questioning it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Conventional wisdom suggests that when a new head coach is hired in the NFL, one of the first players to seek out for a conversation would be the quarterback. Two weeks into Hue Jackson's tenure in Cleveland, and he still hasn't established contact with Johnny Manziel.
Jackson said Wednesday at the Senior Bowl that Manziel wasn't in the "first batch of guys" that he has talked to, but the 2014 first-round pick is "definitely" on his list, per Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. Left tackle Joe Thomas and soon-to-be free agent safety Tashuan Gipson are among those that Jackson has spoken to.
"I'm kind of really picking guys. Some I know on this team that I've been involved with at other places. Some I don't know and want to get to know. There's no rhyme or reason why I haven't talked to him, but it's just the process I'm in right now. I'm just kind of picking the guys as I go."
Jackson also expressed his appreciation for the guys that have sent him welcome text messages, one of whom was not Manziel, according to Cabot. More video has emerged recently of Manziel hitting the party circuit in Dallas. Jackson had previously expressed that Manziel's reported trip to Las Vegas the day before the regular season finale would be a "non-starter" with him.
Does all this mean that Jackson doesn't see Manziel as part ot the team's future? It may seem like the writing is on the wall, but Jackson is playing his cards close to his vest. While Manziel is out having fun not reaching out to his new coach, Jackson will be scouting quarterbacks like North Dakota State's Carson Wentz at the Senior Bowl to see if he's worthy of the Browns' second overall pick.
"I don't want to direct everything at Johnny. I don't think that's the right thing to do. One of my philosophies for our organization is talent is important -- but character and being a good person and doing the things that we want done as a Cleveland is very important.
"Johnny has ability. I think he can play quarterback in the National Football League. It's obvious. He's played. He's made some dynamic plays and he has talent. But we all know everything has to be right to play this position. It's not just that. Everything you think about being a quarterback in the NFL league, part of an organization, the face of an organization's got to fit right for me."
So don't compare Manziel to me.. or to yourself.. or to a kid who joins the monastery... or the military.. or becomes a plumber... the only reasonable comparison is to his peers.. the other people who leave college, sign large contracts, become famous and enter the NFL... and within that group, can you say he is just acting like everybody else? Do people not want to snap a photo of Russell Wilson if they see him our? Or Teddy Bridgewater? Of course they do.. but those guys and many others keep the other stuff off the radar.. they aren't a big distraction to their team
To piggyback, DC, I think Mike Polk Jr nails this one.....
"One of my philosophies for our organization is talent is important, but character and being a good person and doing the things that we want done as a Cleveland Brown is very important."
That seems odd coming from Hue. The Bengals are the dirtiest team in the league. They have quite a few guys that have serious character issues.
And weren't the Raiders accused of dirty play when he coached them? Didn't he only keep Rolando McClain out for a few plays after McClain fired a gun right past another man's head?
They all talk a good game. I watched Hue's pressure after his final game with the raiders which they lost and missed the playoffs. You can tell the guy HATES to lose. I wouldn't put it past him to look the other way on a player if he is getting it done on the field.
Haslam on whether the team's relationship with quarterback Johnny Manziel can be mended:
"Oh, yeah, I don't think there's any question about that. We talked to Johnny before he left. I know a big deal was made that Hue hasn't called Johnny yet. Well, we've got 53 players on the active and 10 more and there were a couple of other real prominent players that he just talked to in the last day or two, so I'm sure he'll get around to talking to him.
"I think we made clear, I don't have any different feelings than we had on Sunday January 3rd. I think Johnny made progress on the field last year. I think that's undeniable. We have a certain expectation for our players and that includes Johnny and he's got to live up to those expectations."
Maybe it's just me, but when I read this article title I get the impression that JFF is in no rush to talk. The article does not back that up. Coach is the one not rushing it.
Not saying JFF is in a hurry to meet him, either, but we don't know.
I'd say that titles are assigned to tease a reader, to pull them into reading - they are not necessarily chosen to actually convey any specific truth. If you're trying to take something away from it, don't. It's simply meant to let the reader's mind wander to get them curious enough to read.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Yep...I'm not allowed to dramatize my opinion being withdrawn. But those who are claiming Fact are allowed to MAKE UP CRAP...yep yep its me.
Enough - lets get rid of the alcoholic and drug addict who cares if we lose a #22 pick with no return. Lets make decisions on ASSumptions. Of course I'm sure the ones who do make the decisions know the truth. Which could be alcoholic or could be just preventing a course to be one?
But I am ridiculous...yep yep for wanting to actually know the truth before condemning somebody.
Oscars...I think that is hogwash. How bout the exclusion of Sniper in almost all nominations due to the liberal factor of the Oscar committee. But yeah they are racist. It just was not a good year for black actors I guess.
jmho - so come on when are we cutting Manziel - if he is who you all are claiming as fact...the sooner the better.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Yep you and others are much wiser than me. What is the hold up on cutting this alcoholic drug addict... if it truly is fact like you claim...get rid of him.
Cut Manziel NOW
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I'd say that titles are assigned to tease a reader, to pull them into reading - they are not necessarily chosen to actually convey any specific truth. If you're trying to take something away from it, don't. It's simply meant to let the reader's mind wander to get them curious enough to read.
No doubt, purp. It's too bad, as there are times where I only read the title as I may be in a hurry. Wonder how many times I got the wrong impression of something.
What difference does it make if he's been clinically diagnosed as an alcoholic, or if he is just a party-boy fool? Either way, he's not flying straight as an NFL QB should. Handed the starters job during the bye, flies to Texas and parties instead of staying in Cleveland and prepping like a madman.... which was more disconcerting because of his previous issues.
Never suggested he was without demerits...even though that is how others portray me as.
When he was demoted for that bye week partying and lying, I defended Pet from the masses who wanted JM to start.
What does it matter...are you Hillary?
Diagnosed Alcoholic has total different meanings to him having a beer in hand at a social. Drunken girlfriend in a drunken fit creates a disturbance so that Manziel pulls over the side of the road and showed NO SIGNS of alcohol but did state earlier he had 2 beers at a BBQ.
Alcoholic those are signs of slipping back into his path of drinking.
I never said he didn't have a problem. He had a problem alcoholic or not of getting caught up in the big social gatherings (parties) where it took priority over his football and effected his training and execution.
THE BIG DIFFERENCE is that if he is a diagnosed alcoholic. He is far from the road of recovery.
If not...his improvement from last year to this was like from Night to Day. And he has to do better. But seems to be on the right track.
And the end of the year stint...Hue finds out he ditched the Browns for Las Vegas...he is dirt to him and I agree with that. Doesn't mean he goes or not but he would have to do a lot to gain his trust back.
But what am I talking about. Its been PROVEN as FACT that he is an Alcoholic...cause of an article written on action that happened before he became a Brown and because he did put himself in a rehab facility....DONE DEAL that makes him an Alcoholic from the Wise ones who know much better than me.
Cut his foolish drunken ass. What are we waiting for.
JOthersOpinions but I'm ridiculous for trying to deny the FACT
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
CLEVELAND — Several signs point to the Browns dumping troubled quarterback Johnny Manziel at some point this offseason, but owner Jimmy Haslam isn’t quite ready to talk about a separation.
Breaking up is hard to do, and Haslam said he thinks the relationship can still be salvaged.
However, he acknowledged how disappointing it would be to discard someone the Browns had such high hopes for they traded up four spots to draft him 22nd overall in 2014.
“One of the reasons the Browns are in the condition they are is they’ve not drafted well,” Haslam said Thursday night during the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards. “Our predecessors didn’t draft well, and we didn’t draft well. Anytime a No. 1 draft pick or any high draft pick is not successful and is not a big contributor, that’s disappointing to the organization.”
Haslam was asked whether he believes a change of scenery for Manziel would be best for the Browns and the former Heisman Trophy winner.
He responded by saying it’s a question for executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown and coach Hue Jackson.
“They’ll make all those calls personnel-wise, including quarterbacks,” Haslam said backstage at the Renaissance Cleveland Hotel. “So I think that’s a question for them, probably for another day.”
Veteran quarterback Josh McCown encountered the same question.
“It’s hard for me to comment on that,” he said. “I want what’s best for him, and he’s a member of our team. So it’s what can we do for him to help him be the best member of the Cleveland Browns that he can in whatever role that is? So that’s what I’m for.”
Shortly after the Browns hired Jackson on Jan. 13, he did a series of radio interviews in which he repeatedly spoke as if the team would move on from Manziel and mentioned the possibility of drafting a quarterback second or 32nd overall in late April.
Jackson met with North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz, a projected first-round selection, this week at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala. Wentz said the rendezvous went well.
Jackson also revealed Wednesday during interviews with Cleveland.com and 92.3 The Fan at Senior Bowl practices that he hasn’t talked to Manziel since he became coach of the Browns more than two weeks ago. McCown said he hasn’t talked to Jackson, but they have a meeting scheduled.
Regardless, Haslam said he believes the team’s relationship with Manziel can be repaired.
“Oh, yeah, I don’t think there’s any question about that,” Haslam said. “We talked to Johnny before he left (for the offseason). I know a big deal was made that Hue hasn’t called Johnny yet. Well, we’ve got 53 players on the active (roster) and 10 more, and there were a couple of other real prominent players that he just talked to in the last day or two. So I’m sure he’ll get around to talking to him.”
But Jackson said recently a quarterback must “represent the organization well” and “carry the flag for us.” He wants “a guy that can help elevate this football team, not anybody that’s going to tear it down.”
He also made it clear if Manziel fled to Las Vegas the weekend of the Jan. 3 season finale while he was in concussion protocol it “would be a nonstarter with me.”
Meanwhile, Manziel’s off-field behavior has continued to raise eyebrows, especially because he spent more than 10 weeks last year in an inpatient rehabilitation facility specializing in alcohol and drug addiction treatment.
BustedCoverage.com recently published videos and photographs of Manziel, 23, partying Sunday at a bar in Dallas. One photo shows him drinking what appears to be a shot of alcohol.
Is Haslam concerned?
“I think Johnny made progress on the field last year. I think that’s undeniable,” he replied. “We have a certain expectation for our players and that includes Johnny, and he’s got to live up to those expectations.”
McCown said he has exchanged text messages with Manziel this offseason but wants to keep those conversations private.
Has he told Manziel it would be wise to make a good impression on Jackson and the rest of the new coaching staff?
“You ought to work hard no matter who the coach is and be on your best behavior no matter who the coach is,” McCown said. “So that’s my expectation.
But what am I talking about. Its been PROVEN as FACT that he is an Alcoholic...cause of an article written on action that happened before he became a Brown and because he did put himself in a rehab facility....DONE DEAL that makes him an Alcoholic from the Wise ones who know much better than me.
From what I know, what has been proven as fact is that Manziel has a problem with alcohol that is either at (or close to) some level of dependency.. and he has a history of choosing alcohol and partying over making better choices that benefit him and his team and his future.
has he crossed the line to alcoholic? I don't know.
For me it doesn't matter, and I'll tell you why it doesn't matter.. because it's not as simple as, if he's an alcoholic that is still drinking then he's out of here and if he's not an alcoholic then he can stay.
He has shown that partying with his friends is as important or more important than becoming the best QB he can be.. and that's scary when you think about giving him the keys for a couple years and passing on other potentially very good and more stable options...
In the end, Hue is going to have to develop a feeling of comfort with the kid in order to keep him... I would imagine that Manziel can be very persuasive in a meeting when he wants to be... I do not envy Hue having to make this decision (assuming Hue actually gets to make the decision).. because his entire career could hang on this decision.. which is why it wouldn't surprise me if he cut ties with Manziel and chose the safer road of taking his own guy...
the little things. He has a picture of him with a BEER in hand. TO me none alcoholic...are you kidding me - SO WHAT.
A video of him with a rapper and him rapping also I believe with a beer in hand. Again SO WHAT.
With a can of some Alcohol drink...so what.
I'm talking all the stuff after the transformation of last off season. No Hosting Vegas Parties with Swans, with the Gronk.
Disturbance thing with the car. Good sense to stop off the road as it turned out the gf was wasted and the aggressor Manziel did admit he had 2 beers earlier that day.
all heck broke loose...I'm like HUH? what did he do wrong.
Meanwhile two things the Bye week - I thought was terrible what he did. not so much drinking. But because he was to come (according to him) back Saturday night and get a full day of film Sunday before the team got back on track Monday. Instead he couldn't get out of the MOMENT and end his partying right there as Planned. Instead he was easily convinced to attend a private party on Saturday which had him come home on Sunday and was there on Monday without his full day of private film on Sunday getting him ready for his FIRST Anointing as starter.
The the lie...demoted for two games. I did not excuse him for that I was one who was agreeing with the actions of Pet to demote him!
Then the last game with the concussion protocol missed session. If it turns out he ditched the Browns to party in Vegas...as Hue said he's no starter for him. I have agreed with that action also.
So to me for all that in between stuff is a SO WHAT for me UNLESS he is a diagnosed Alcoholic then he has to be clean as in Seltzer water.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Haslam was asked whether he believes a change of scenery for Manziel would be best for the Browns and the former Heisman Trophy winner.
He responded by saying it’s a question for executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown and coach Hue Jackson.
“They’ll make all those calls personnel-wise, including quarterbacks,” Haslam said backstage at the Renaissance Cleveland Hotel. “So I think that’s a question for them, probably for another day.”
So it's a question for Hue Jackson and Sashi Brown?..and just like that Haslam has the cover he wanted so it would not appear like he was meddling owner.
When Haslam hired Hue Jackson, he said that Hue would report directly to him. If the boss wants Manziel to get another shot, not much Hue can do about it.
Sashi Brown is not going to override his bosses wishes. If Haslam tells Sashi he wants Manziel to get another shot, Sashi will support that opinion in public and for public consumption, it will appear that Sashi, Hue and the rest of the front office are united.
With all the "big brains" the Browns have hired in the front office, who would doubt their decision to give Manziel another shot?...it's got to be a "smart move", right?
the little things. He has a picture of him with a BEER in hand. TO me none alcoholic...are you kidding me - SO WHAT.
A video of him with a rapper and him rapping also I believe with a beer in hand. Again SO WHAT.
With a can of some Alcohol drink...so what.
I'm talking all the stuff after the transformation of last off season.
Eo.. I agree with you. To me those are not, by themselves, a big deal... but the Browns seemed to be concerned about them. Which begs the questions, what conversations was he having with the team? What deals had he made with the team with respect to his drinking?
At one point Manziel tweeted out "I don't have a drinking problem, the Browns have a problem with me drinking"... ok. If your employer (who is paying you millions of dollars) says they want you to lay off of it and let things calm down and prove your commitment to the team, then you do it. It's not an unreasonable request. And if you agreed to those conditions, then live up to your commitment.
This line of thinking inspired my other post that if the Browns keep Manziel, they have to clear the air on what he is, and is not, allowed to do. As fans we have no real right to know but we are going to want to know.. is he allowed to drink or not? When the next video of him comes out should we be worried? Is he violating some agreement he has with the team? If they tell me that he's working hard and honoring his commitment to the team, then if a video appears of him having some drinks at Mardi Gras, then I won't worry about it... but without knowing the expectations, as a fan, I just want to have some confidence that our QB is actually going to be on the field and ready to play.
Kevin O'Brien, deputy editorial page editor, The Plain Dealer:
Plenty of rogues have done well in sports, but they did so in an era before saturation media, the ubiquity of phones that record video, the sale of people's personal lives to reality TV and an errant assumption that the private actions and public pronouncements of athletes and entertainers should be taken seriously. Because Manziel was born 20 years too late, he may have to choose between being a knucklehead and playing pro football. For him and the game, that would be unfortunate.
Kevin O'Brien, deputy editorial page editor, The Plain Dealer:
Plenty of rogues have done well in sports, but they did so in an era before saturation media, the ubiquity of phones that record video, the sale of people's personal lives to reality TV and an errant assumption that the private actions and public pronouncements of athletes and entertainers should be taken seriously. Because Manziel was born 20 years too late, he may have to choose between being a knucklehead and playing pro football. For him and the game, that would be unfortunate.
As I have stated before, and will state again.. he can be a knucklehead, he just has to prove he can play football FIRST!!!!
If you are winning and performing at a high level, having a BIG personality is fun and exciting... if you are losing and not playing well, having a BIG personality is annoying and appears selfish..
Sorry, I didn't make up those rules.. but those are the rules.
I was discussing...Just where in that quote and post to you do I go in some uproar...I'm explaining my thought process and what I fee.
Hillary a joke I guess.
What does it matter...in her Bengazi regarding her cross examination and her getting it wrong about the tape inciting a riot and her rebuking that it was a terrorist act. That was her response - "What does it matter" maybe the words that will keep her out of the white house to become the commander in chief.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I would just like to see him start ONE season (every game) with real talent surrounding him and quality coaching. If he stinks it up then ship him for a ham sandwich, until then don't let him have his way and go to Texas.
Yes, times have changed. For the better in some aspects; not so in others. The days of the "character" (ala Babe Ruth, Joe Namath, etc) are quickly slipping away, to be replaced by high strung, PR-types, born with a silver spoon in their mouths. OK, that's a gross over-simplification, but you get my drift...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
The days of the "character" (ala Babe Ruth, Joe Namath, etc) are quickly slipping away,
Because their antics used to be the rumors of legends, passed around in bars among friends who "heard from a guy".. now there are photos and videos of every thing..
Quote:
to be replaced by high strung, PR-types, born with a silver spoon in their mouths. OK, that's a gross over-simplification, but you get my drift...
Yea, I don't think too many professional athletes are born with the silver spoon... fact is that image is everything now and the money to be made off the field at the highest level is just too great... you have to play the role. Not everybody has to be a choir boy, there is room for the "bad boy" but even that image still has to be managed and crafted.
I would just like to see him start ONE season (every game) with real talent surrounding him and quality coaching. If he stinks it up then ship him for a ham sandwich, until then don't let him have his way and go to Texas.
Sending him to Texas, to party it up, with his crazy girlfriend, every night, would be us pressing the metaphorical 'big red button' on his career.
HIPPA laws won't let us know if he was diagnosed at all.
So the next best thing is to figure out if he has a problem.
If the guy signing his checks has a problem and he still doesn't adapt, he has a problem.
Everyone says that he went into rehab voluntarily, but we can't even be certain of that right now. It is what they say it is. Considering the way the season ended, he could have been told to volunteer. This season ended pretty close to the same way as last.
His attitude seems to be "Johnny is going to be Johnny and you are going to have to deal with it." I've heard that here. I heard that from his friends. I've heard that from his parents.
My answer is no, somebody else is going to have to deal with it. I don't care what we get or where he goes, I just don't want to have to deal with it next year.
I don't care what he could have been, all I care about is what I had to put up with and not having to put up with it again next year.
Just wondering...........do you care that Gordon is a druggie, a liar, and lazy? Do you care that Haslam is a crook and a liar? Do you care that Haden has been suspended by the NFL and missed most of the season, yet was healthy enough to play basketball? Do you care that Gilber would rather sleep than study? That he isn't sure if he wants to compete to win a starting job or not?
Just wondering...........do you care that Gordon is a druggie, a liar, and lazy? Do you care that Haslam is a crook and a liar? Do you care that Haden has been suspended by the NFL and missed most of the season, yet was healthy enough to play basketball? Do you care that Gilber would rather sleep than study? That he isn't sure if he wants to compete to win a starting job or not?
Just wondering.......
Yep, I wanted the Browns to pull the trigger on the trade they had on the table for him.
I'd be happy if they could get another one together and could throw in Gilbert as a bonus.
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