DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

Factoring the major selling point on Hue was his ability to develop qbs and etc, yeah... early though but as of now, not looking no Bueno .

I mean, last I looked Goff was third on the depth chart, Kessler is just horrible looking and clearly has a long way to go and RGIII is the toy that's always broken.

I remember Hue praising Kessler because of his accuracy. He liked the fact that he could throw it in tight windows. From what I've read/seen thus far, he actually can't do it at this level.

The rap seems to be his arm isn't strong enough to zip it in those windows.

It's early...........Things can change.

I'm not holding out much hope, but I've been wrong before.

No doubt things can change. We really haven't seen him play. I was simply commenting based on things I have read. The book is far from finished. You have to plow through 5-6 chapters before you can tell the book sucks and you put it down.

Yeah exactly. And that's one area where it's VERY difficult to improve.

It's pretty much impossible to improve to any degree at this stage. Mechanics might help some, but his arm is what it is. He is going to have to change the way he sees things. He has to anticipate more rather than try to fire the ball in....Bernie was that type of QB. He didn't have a big arm.

But, it was a different era.

It is way too early to tell. Would you rather see Farmer and Company in there?

lol no

Just curious........why do you call them "The Boys?"

LOL.......okay.

Bet the Boys still trade away a top pick or two in 2017 for even more later mediocre middle round picks. We'll see

That's kinda exactly what I meant by it not boding well for our future.

I *really* hope that it's all just much ado about nothing.

https://twitter.com/mlombardifoxtv/status/776461805723930625

Yes, folks. You read the twitter handle correctly...THE Mike Lombardi is back on the Twitter thing.

J/C ......

Man ..... it's one week.

Can you please leave my name out of your mouth?

But yeah, Bradford is all hype. Still riding his first overall pick wave. If he had Blaine Gabbert money would people still have love for him? I think he's the example of a sunk cost fallacy at this point. Maybe Norv can get his brain running, but that hasn't been seen yet.

So you are already deeming Wentz a franchise QB? A rookie with no game tape playing one of the worst defenses in the league? Ok......

If Jackson doesn't quit talking about greatness while losing his shine will wear off sooner rather than later.

Can our FO just shut up already?

Calling out Wentz like they did before the game was ridiculous, and they're showing no signs of slowing.

If they're trying to show confidence and positivity, they should talk about how we're eventually going to have a mediocre team. That's a lot more believable.

The FO didn't call out Wentz before the game. What the media latched onto was an excerpt from an interview with Tony Grossi in June or July. Now, they responded to the story and questions from the media but the 'not top 20' thing is from awhile ago, IIRC.

Here is the piece the media ran with:


http://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/07/30/cle...n-carson-wentz/

That's true. Hue Jackson also made a similar comment recently. Here it is:




Both probably should have kept quiet about their evaluations. No need to feed the bears.

Operative words in his statement - " at this time,"


They're focusing on building the other position groups first and are trotting out placeholder QBs, but took a flyer on a guy that kinda-sorta-maybe coulda developed into The Guy.


Errr.... that's one take, I guess. I'm probably giving them far too much credit with that take.

I wonder what the reaction would have been the Browns defense completely
shutdown Wentz and the Eagles?
the fact is a QB who this team passed on looked like a 5 yr vet
with very minimal reps in preseason.
I befuddled onbhow the Browns apparently thought more of Kessler over Prescott and Wentz.

jc...

Below is the July 30,2016 Grossi story being referenced.


No matter what happens this year, Browns' search for a permanent quarterback will intensify

Jul 30, 2016
link
Tony Grossi
ESPN Cleveland

Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR.

Chief of strategy: Two general managers – one in baseball, one in football -- were having a conversation about their respective sports. The baseball GM – grizzled and crusty from examining players in the hot summer sun over decades – wondered why the football GM was so enamored with the quarterback position.

“Imagine,” said the football GM, “having Jim Palmer pitch every day.”

And that ended that discussion.

So I asked Paul DePodesta -- baseball’s “Moneyball” analytics maven, who left a 20-year career in Major League Baseball while still on the rise to try to turn around the fortunes of the Browns as chief strategy officer -- his philosophy on the importance of the quarterback in the franchise’s future.

The good news for Browns fans is that he responded like a football GM.

“There probably isn’t another position in all of team sports that I can think of that has the same level of import as the quarterback,” DePodesta said. “Exactly to what degree that is, we haven’t quantified that and I’m not sure that we need to. We just know that it’s really, really important and we have to get there, or we have to get to a level where we have a really productive guy at the position.

“There aren’t 32 of them in the world that I think can be quarterbacks of Super Bowl champion teams. Supply is short. Are there things you can do with the rest of your personnel or are things you can do schematically to help a quarterback? I think so. But at the end of the day, that quarterback still has to be a driving force of your team, especially if you want to be a consistent winner over time.”

So does finding a permanent quarterback, someone to end the parade of men who have started for the Browns since 1999 -- which probably will number 25 by season’s start! – consume DePodesta’s thinking like it consumes the team’s long-suffering followers?

“I think it’s a huge area of focus for us, not just now but I think it’s going to continue to be,” he answered. “Even if we feel like we have one, or we have two, we’re going to still try to find another one, because it’s one of those situations where it’s so important that you should never be satisfied with where you are at the position.”

The big bet: OK, so why Robert Griffin III? And why not the highest-ranked quarterbacks in DePodesta’s first draft – Jared Goff or Carson Wentz?

Why did the Browns sign Griffin, who had his one good year with the Washington Redskins four seasons ago, and turn their backs on Goff and Wentz?

Why did they not attempt to trade up with Tennessee to secure Goff? Why did they bypass Wentz and trade their No. 2 overall pick to Philadelphia to stockpile picks through 2018?

DePodesta disputed my contention that a. coach Hue Jackson was the driving force of Griffin’s signing, and b. signing Griffin for $15 million over two years, dictated their strategy to trade down in the draft.

“This wasn’t a hard sell on anybody,” DePodesta said of Griffin. “I think we all thought it was a really good idea. We were all excited about the opportunity. Here’s a guy just 26 years old, Heisman Trophy winner, No. 2 pick in the draft, but maybe most importantly, had success already in this league. Not necessarily last year, because he didn’t play, had some injuries just before that. But he’s had success and he’s still so young … hopefully, still has such a long career in front of him. Given the options available to us in the quarterback market this offseason, we felt he was a great choice.”

As for Goff and Wentz, the Rams and Eagles, respectively, gave up a boatload of draft picks to anoint them their franchise quarterbacks at No. 1 and No. 2 in the draft. DePodesta basically said the Browns thought lesser of both players.

Had Goff been available at No. 2, DePodesta indicated, it would have been a more difficult choice. But Wentz was not considered a top 20 NFL quarterback in the consensus opinion of the New Browns Order.

“We have to make judgments on the individual players and we’re not always going to be right,” DePodesta said. “But in this particular case, we just didn’t feel it was necessarily the right bet to make for us at this time. Again, it comes down to individual evaluation of a player. We will not always be right on those type of things.

“I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can’t invent him if he doesn’t exist. In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who’s good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

“Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don’t believe he’s one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that’s the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That’s what we did this year.”

Search goes on: Even though DePodesta has confidence in the personnel department headed by Andrew Berry, he said he intends to familiarize himself more with the college game, and the scouting process, as he digs in for his first football season.

“I want to be more informed about [the college game],” he said.

He concedes that Browns scouts probably will be “front and center” – my words – at just about every game of every major college quarterback prospect this fall.

“Yeah. I think so. Absolutely,” DePodesta said. “It’s a primary focus of the organization and it’s going to continue to be regardless of how our quarterbacks play here.”

Well, that’s a start.

jc

It was gonna be tough for any FO coming in. Farmer burned the whole thing down. His drafts and LomBanner one are the reason there's no talent right now. There's almost nothing from these past three drafts, not one single good or above AVG player at his position. You can add Heckert's last TRich/Weeden fiasco to make it 4 in a row, but at least he hit it on the next 3 picks in that draft with Schwartz, Hughes and T.Benjamin. If a team had those three, they wouldn't trade them for the 3 Browns draft classes from 2013-15 COMBINED.

That said, the new FO botched their first draft. It was a weak class. There were maybe a dozen worthy 1st round picks. Wentz was a 1-1 talent. This will be Big Ben all over again.

Nassib and the safety look like fine players, but there was so much bad or meh tape on the rest they took that it's obvious that they don't watch much tape or if they do, they probably have a stat sheet covering their eyes.

I know there were those that were in love with Wentz and coveted him - Eagles included I guess.

But I don't think we can re-write history and suggest that the majority felt either Goff or Wentz were top talent in the mold of Andrew Luck and RG3 when they came out - Or even as good as Mariotta and Winston (Winston sure looks like he's going to be a stud).

At the end of the college season - it was a LOT of debate and opinion that I saw in the media .... that there wasn't a QB in the draft worth a top 10 pick.

To go from that - have all the hype of the combine's and draft and annual rise of certain players simply because of the importance of the position they play or freakish numbers at the combine ... and say Wentz was a universally considered lock is not accurate. . . . not only that. To crown him after one game is premature. Dak and Wentz looked very very good. But .... lets see them do it for a season. And against defenses not called 'the Browns'.

It was my pre-draft opinion based on what I saw. Do I need the media consensus for that? Wentz was the best college QB I saw since Roethlisberger. He was clearly better than Goff in my opinion.

Re-read the thread on that if you like

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1079716/9

So because you thought he was a stud, he was a cast iron lock ? Ok.

Which is apparently long enough to know completely that everything you're doing is wrong and needs to be changed.

I agree everyone has an opinion. . . and I am happy to state that mine isn't better or more accurate than most fans. And there are folks that are better at player evaluation than me.

But there is a difference between a poster having an opinion - and there being a universal consensus that a draft class or particular player is worthy of a #1 pick. My recollection of Wentz shooting up the charts - many liked him and many thought it was a huge risk to take him at 2 overall. . . . and to crown Wentz after one game against the Browns? A little premature, no matter how convinced we might be of our opinion. jmo.

How about this? You wait and then get out of the way so the rest of us can discuss the topic. It's a football message board. The intent is to talk about football rather than saying nothing and waiting.

Btw-------I haven't seen you and others making similar statements regarding Nassib and Pryor.

Frankly, I Think that guys like you think it is okay to praise a player early if he plays for the Browns, but any discussion that doesn't hold those particular qualifiers are off limits.

Pfffttttttttttt............

Good morning Vers. Happy Friday to you.

I see you got your bully pants on a bit tight today? Sorry about that. I see you also responded to me - so I had a look at what you wrote.

I have a few observations:

- Can you let me know where I indicated or inferred we can't talk about it or offer opinions? .... As a teacher I thought your comprehension would be a little better - however to help you, here is my full quote in context: "To crown him after one game is premature. Dak and Wentz looked very very good. But .... lets see them do it for a season. And against defenses not called 'the Browns'." ..... that doesn't say not to TALK about it for a season. It does not infer not to TALK about it for a season .... what it says is to wait for a season before we crown him. See how easy that is if you break it down and read in conjunction with other content within the post - you know, the sentence preceding it.

- Nassib and Pryor (and Ogbah ... and Duke and Coleman) ... others that I am high on, and especially Gordon who you loathe with a passion and I only wish him to succeed .... they all need to do it for a season. More than a season. They have shown positives and the outlook is promising. But the sample size is minimal. A phrase that I have used frequently.

- as for the rest of your non-football talk post... it's interesting how you continually refer to "you guys" and try to disparage, put down and bully others constantly ....... just like our last responses to each other where you lied about me "getting personal" - which was untrue and you were unable to provide proof which I asked for. (by the way responding to someone who lied about your post isn't "getting personal" - it's simply setting the record straight.)

Enjoy the rest of your Friday, Go Browns - here's to a win against the Ratbirds.