|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Jerod Evans of Virginia Tech is better than Kizer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,440
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,440 |
the usc qb looks good too
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
U met Montana and think he's a high character guy? ..
WOW ... I guess in a meet and greet .... he could come across as a high character guy ..
I LOVE JOE as a football player .. LOVE HIM .. my all time fav. .
As u human being ... lets just say if my nephews grew up with his character i would not be proud of a single one of them ..
He's not a GOOD GUY by any stretch ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,282
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,282 |
LOL, you mad, bro?
I do not see the validity in judging qbs [good or bad] because of what school they played for. Sorry. Not sure if this was meant for me, but no, I am not mad at all. I wasn't even mad yesterday. I agree with you, judging a QB because of his school is not that wise, but judging one by who his brother is makes less sense to me. Certain schools run certain offenses that don't translate well to NFL, some schools QB's almost always have tons of talent around them and maybe their success is related to that. That is what I meant. If your comments were not meant for me, never mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
No, I clicked on Razor's name. That is who I was speaking to.
I just think it is kinda crazy to say you will never draft a qb from any one particular school.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 313
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 313 |
Not big on drafting any QB this time, I like the ones we have and believe they will work if we can protect them, check this http://walterfootball.com/draft2017_2.php
Last edited by OrangeHelmet; 10/28/16 10:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
I'd be satisfied with waiting for another of Hue's "Trust Me" QBs in the 5th.
But I'm thinking a QB will be taken with our 2nd first rounder.
And I haven't even looked to see what QBs will be available in free agency.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
the usc qb looks good too We picked the wrong year to have the worst record. Next year, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, and Browning. One of them will be very good.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882 |
the usc qb looks good too We picked the wrong year to have the worst record. Next year, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, and Browning. One of them will be very good. I feel the same way. Though I try to like Rosen I just don't like what I see. It's like all the pieces are there to make a great QB but there's something off. I'll keep watching, but despite his numbers, something is missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
We picked the wrong year to have the worst record.
Next year, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, and Browning. One of them will be very good. We'll have a shot at the best QBs in the next 3 drafts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
We picked the wrong year to have the worst record.
Next year, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, and Browning. One of them will be very good. We'll have a shot at the best QBs in the next 3 drafts. I don't want a shot at the best QBs, I want to get the best QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Agreed, the Browns will almost assuredly stink again next year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,440
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,440 |
yep, we won't win more than 4-5 next year either
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
yep, we won't win more than 4-5 next year either Agreed. But we will be better. This year we are clearly the worst team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,282
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,282 |
Hard to know who will be available in the 2017 or 18 draft. That is a long way off. A year ago I don't think Wentz was projected the 2nd player taken.
Barkley, Geno Smith among others were projected 1st overall by many at this time in their last year in college.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Diam
What happened to this guy?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809 |
Projected first-round pick DeShone Kizer declares for 2017 NFL Draft Notre Dame's quarterback is giving up his final year of eligibility Dec 12, 2016 • 1 min read link Notre Dame's season is over, and so is DeShone Kizer's college career, as the Notre Dame quarterback declared for the NFL Draft on Monday. The decision doesn't come as much of a surprise, though there had been some speculation that he might return. All of that speculation wasn't enough to overcome the fact that many project Kizer to be a first-round pick. Our own Dane Brugler has Kizer going second overall to the San Francisco 49ers in his latest mock draft. Kizer's Notre Dame career was filled with surprises. He did not win the starting job heading into the 2015 season, but took over for Malik Zaire after Zaire went down with an injury. Kizer's first game included a comeback on the road against Virginia that ended with 39-yard touchdown pass to Will Fuller with 12 seconds left. The Irish would finish the 2015 season with a 10-3 record, and were in contention for the College Football Playoff before a late season loss to Stanford. That finish led to high expectations for both Kizer and the Irish heading into 2016, and both failed to live up to them. Kizer threw for 2,925 yards and 26 touchdowns this season, but his completion percentage dropped to 58.7. Notre Dame stumbled to a 4-8 finish as a team, though the blame for that falls a lot of places that aren't DeShone Kizer. As for where Notre Dame goes from here, with Kizer leaving for the NFL, and Malik Zaire transferring, Brandon Wimbush and Ian Book will compete for the job alongside incoming freshman Avery Davis.
Last edited by mac; 12/14/16 09:39 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
Now that Kizer has declared for the draft where would he go?
Quarterbacks are very hard to predict in regards to where in the draft they will go.
In my opinion he should have stayed in school. However, I am not privy to his financial situation.
Anyway, I would no doubt bring him for a workout and put him under the microscope.
He has talent and potential. Good size, good arm, moves well, can make NFL throws. The problem in projecting him into the NFL comes from lack of experience. He is very inconsistent. His decision making is far from mature.
So with that stated and the inherent risk I see him as a second rounder. Maybe late first if he has a good pre-draft workout etc.
He is the type of guy who could become great in a few years. And at the same time he may never develop and be a bust.
No question though I would look at him in every way he can be studied.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
High. I don't know if this was linked yet, but here's an article about us scouting Kizer. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-scouting-kizer
Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer intends to enter the 2017 NFL Draft, and the team that's in position to have the first chance to pick him is reportedly doing more than its fair share of due diligence on the QB.
Kizer announced his draft intentions on Monday, a day after ESPN reported Browns scout Lake Dawson spent "an inordinate amount of time" scouting Kizer at Notre Dame.
Cleveland, 0-13, holds a one-game lead over the 49ers for the draft's top pick with three weeks left in the regular season, and Kizer happens to play the position where Cleveland has its most glaring need, so it's not surprising that the franchise would have its eye on him.
Notre Dame finished a disappointing 4-8 this season, and Kizer's confidence appeared to wane as the season progressed. Fighting Irish coach Brian Kelly said Kizer's play was "not acceptable" after he turned the ball over twice in a surprising home loss to Duke. Kelly even suggested he might take the starting job away from Kizer, although he didn't.
Despite the struggles, Kizer remains one of the most highly regarded QB prospects. Two scouts told NFL.com's Lance Zierlein in September that they preferred Kizer to Clemson QB Deshaun Watson, who also intends to enter the 2017 draft, and an executive has projected Kizer as a top-10 pick.
However, the consensus from the scouting community seems to be that no QB prospect in the 2017 class has emerged as a franchise-caliber player, no matter which underclassmen are granted early draft eligibility. The question is, will that lead QB-needy teams picking at the top of the draft to look elsewhere to address that area?
There's been some scuttlebutt that the Browns could pursue a trade for a young QB like Jimmy Garoppolo or AJ McCarron. A move like that would put Cleveland in position to solidify a position that has long been a source of consternation for the franchise, and take the best player available with its top pick. The team is reportedly enamored with one of CFB's top talents, Texas A&M DE Myles Garrett, who has yet to reveal his draft intentions.
Cleveland also holds the Eagles' first-round pick, which is currently slotted at No. 9, so the team will have plenty of flexibility. The Browns traded down from the No. 2 pick with the Eagles last year and passed on a chance to select Carson Wentz. The 2017 draft could be shaped by the answer to this question: Do the Browns see something in Kizer, or another top QB prospect, that they didn't see in Wentz?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
If I were only looking at the quarterbacks in the draft I would rank them as follows:
Trubisky
Kizer
Watson - Not even sure I would consider Watson. I mean you have to look at all of them so, yes I would do my due diligence on him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468 |
so you're ranking a one hit wonder
and a college qb who got benched cause he was playing like trash over a proven winner winner
ok.
is it because these kids are from ohio? because it certainly can't be QB play on the field or physical and athletic talent.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
What is a being proven winner and what does it have to do with NFL success? Under this premise Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy, Matt Leinart, and Vince Young should have all been great NFL QBs.
Unless something happened that I don't know about, we are not being relegated to the ACC. The success of Watson's team in college does not matter.
I do not know if Watson will be a successful NFL QB. I do know that stating his wins as a checkmark on his side is completely pointless.
(I am also not sure if Watson is more physically gifted than Trubiskyor Kizer.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468 |
why not? they are all the same size. they all have an arm.
and Watson certainly looks faster.
and sure i can point to wins. would you pick a QB who was a bum in college? shouldn't a QB's play in big games count for something?
in my eyes it absolutely does.
also, vince young has a 31-20 w/l record in the nfl. his problem was the his mental breakdown, but he was playing very well in the league.
wasn't he 30-17 under Fisher?
that's just how i roll. sorry. im taking the guy who threw almost 4000 yards, rushed for 1100 yards, and played in big time games against big time competition, over a one hit wonder who still tossed less TD's than Watson this season, and a guy who got benched because he was sucking wind out of the team with his horrible play.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I wouldn't touch Kizer.
Watson over him all day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468 |
and yet, i'll take all 3 over Jimmy G.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Doesn't mean much, you want Watson anyway 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468 |
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I'm cool with Chad Kelly in the 4th. I don't think they should draft a QB before then though. Not unless there's a real run on them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
I watched the video of Kizer vs Stanford on draftbreakdown.com and he had a horrible game. Overthrows, underthrows, interceptions - yuck. Still, you could tell he has a strong arm and good athleticism. But he looks like he needs another two years in college. You can almost see a young Steve McNair in there somewhere, but he has a long way to go to be a viable NFL QB, imo.
I should also add that I'm not a big film-breakdown guy, and it was only one game - but those were my impressions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
When judging college quarterbacks you have to first figure out how you want to judge them.
Are you going to judge them statistically? And then rank them by quarterback ratings?
What is the criterion for measurement?
How then do you forecast them into the NFL?
What other factors come into play? Wins and loses? College? Schedule? Years in college? Competition? Offensive system?
I can understand why you like Watson. He is a good college quarterback. He is a three year player on a good team. Clemson plays a good schedule. He has good numbers and is a good athlete. He has won big games. From what I have read he is high character guy and good leader.
Kizer is a two year player. His college career does not match up well against Watson statistically.
Trubisky is kind of a one year wonder although when he has played; he has played well. But he has been successful even coming up to college.
Why would I rank them Trubisky, Kizer, Watson?
Because I am trying to forecast them into the NFL.
It is a matter of watching "their game". How they play.
Does their style translate to the NFL?
Kizer has I have stated in my opinion should have stayed in school. He is not a mature quarterback. At this point Watson is the better player. He has more experience and is more mature in his development. However, Kizer has flashed (in my opinion) better potential. He is a pocket passer who can move. He has shown the ability to fit the ball into tight windows; to anticipate when a guy becomes open. He has good size and a strong arm. He throws well on the run. He relies on his ability as a passer. His issues of inconsistency look to be mostly from lack of experience. Over time his game forecasts better into the NFL than Watson.
Watson relies upon his ability to run as well as pass. That has not been a good formula in the NFL. In many ways he is like Tajh Boyd and to a degree Griffin. He is inconsistent as a passer and his accuracy is questionable.
Trubisky although inexperienced has shown strong NFL traits. He has good size. He is a good all around athlete. Powerful arm and very accurate. He can make every NFL type throw and he does it with little effort. He plays with good instincts and pocket presence. Makes good decisions even though the offense is somewhat limited. He will need time to learn the NFL game. At this point he is behind Watson as far quarterback maturity. But in my opinion he projects better into the NFL over time.
I have not gone into great detail into each guy because I don't have time right now.
What I will say is Garoppolo is the best option and the lowest risk. If not him I would draft Trubisky.
At a later point I will get very specific about the quarterbacks available.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001 |
There is no QB in this years draft worth a high first round pick. There just isn't. Mitch Trubisky is probably the one I like the most from this draft though. He has nice footwork, good vision, throws a catchable ball, and can throw a decent deep ball. I just don't know that he will last to the second round where I would be interested in drafting him.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
Doing a group film breakdown/discussion thread on the QB draft prospects.
General idea is to look at the QB over the course of a few games. 1 game at a time where specific plays are discussed.
What would be a good game to start with for Kizer?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
QBs from ND all have major personality problems. I would just never draft one from there period. Yep. All blacks are lazy. All whites are racist. All women belong in the kitchen. All Hispanics are illegal aliens. All Muslims want to kill us. Donnie, is that you 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
Draft Breakdown has seven games posted for 2016.
Start with Miami and work forward to the most recent.
It's ok to look at specific plays but playing quarterback is way more than just highlights. It is often about throwing the ball away. Sometimes even taking the sack. Checking down when necessary. Avoidance of a bad play. Protecting yourself.
It is also about making routine throws easily. Ball placement on screens and plays designed for run after catch. Decision making. Pocket awareness. Movement in the pocket. The ability to make third downs by run or pass.
The marvel guy of college was Andrew Luck. He did every thing right. His form as a quarterback was as close to perfect as you could get.
Not many guys play four years and graduate. In addition the spread and gimmick offenses are really hard to evaluate. The NFL is about pocket play, reading the defense post snap and making throws to the right guy at the right time. Not many college teams play that way.
So you just have to watch the guys and look for things they can do that will translate to the NFL. Then you have to find about the prospects background. His work habits and leadership skills. Not everything is on game film.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
I know Draft Breakdown is all the plays of the prospect in that game. I have watched that web site for along time.
the Miami game was posted like it was the first game. But I don't know if the games were posted chronologically.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
No worries we agree then, the aspects of evaluation you were describing in your post are exactly the intent of the QB breakdown threads.
The current aim for the 1st game to view in the breakdown threads has been an average game as opposed to one of the prospects better games with the intent to finish the process on a positive note.
Last edited by edromeo; 12/16/16 04:37 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Miami was not the first game ... Texas was ...
Vers says to do their worst game first and then go from there ... he had a few real stinkers this year ... he also had HORRIBLE 2nd halves in almost every game ...
NC State was his worst game .. it was played in a monsoon .. Zaire should have played the entire game ... U couldn't throw the ball that day ... game should have never been played ... DISGRACEFUL ... NC State beat us cause there HC played their running QB almost the entire 2nd half ... Zaire played one series for us ... i wanted to shoot Kelly ... HIS GAME PLAN NEVER CHANGED ... you would have thought it was a perfect day the way we chicken it all over that day .. the center muffed like 4 snaps ... the final one ended our last drive and Kelly was as usual yelling at him on the sideline ... never have been a huge kelly fan ... that one really turned me off ..
His play as did the O's play got worse quarter by quarter ... it was eerie ... except against Navy and Army ... on D navy was physically outmatched .. army was on both sides of the ball ..
So u may wanna watch all the 2nd halves first and then go back to the 1st halves .. *L* ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
Lol, eh so which game do you suggest to start with? The NC State games is one I'm gonna watch but doesn't seem right for a breakdown due to weather
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Deshon Kizer
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
