DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Patrick Mahomes

I found this interview with Mel Kiper, from December 6th (my birth day) of some interest, because it came before the bowl season hyperbole, that precedes every draft season.

The corporate media is driven by this hyperbole.

Link


Thoughts? Questions?

Seems to be the norm opinion about the QBs I have been hearing and I pretty much agree with what Mel had to say.

Thoughts on Pat Mahomes:

Overall unorthodox but very effective gym rat QB

• can throw from a variety of platform... has a football gym rate vibe of someone who knows how to throw because of the volume of work put in
primary motion though is a 3/4 'sling' type motion ala Jeff George

• can put the ball where he wants and make all the throws, but not an "easy" thrower.

• throws off backfoot more then most prospects I've watched this year, even more then Trubisky

• has a weird torque of his hip when throws that reminds me Colt Brennan, actually a lot of his game reminds me of Colt Brennan....part of it is the air-raid soread...

• lacks consistency with his carriage of the football pre-throw, often dropping it to his knees

• Seems to "muscle up" with the hip torque when he needs velocity...(I'm curious to see him throw side by side with other prospects at the combine)

• uses a lot of functional space when throwing, maybe he doesn't need it but....I have questions about him throwing from a constrained pocket

• has some ability to scramble, evade and extend plays is willing to adlib.....ut not at a 'plus' level athlete

Developmental guy, Who's a couple years away. Footwork is horrible.

Major prospect. He reminds me a bit of Chad Pennington. I'm not sure he'll ever get those intangibles to Pennington's level, but maybe.

You mean like Dak Prescott

exactly

Link

Nuts

Penn had a noodle arm.

Yeah after two rotator cuff injuries. Early Pennington was a beauty.

I'd have np with drafting this guy in the 3rd or 4th round. I'm sure Hue could fix him up and them send him to House in the off season.

I like watching this kid play because he has that Kosar feeling that you can never count him out till the game is over.

We could end up with Kessler as our #2 and this guy as our #3. That means whoever is starter will have to work their buts off to keep young and hungry QBs from taking their jobs. That starter will either be RG3 or Jimmy G. most likely.

He also never had Mahomes quick release or his pocket awareness or his athletic abilities.

It's a poor comparison imo. JG is a fare better comparison, when he came out.

If we trade for JG, we wouldn't need to draft a QB. We will need to let that scenario play out fist.

And the record I would rather have the trade, but not with our #1,this year.

JG may not have much starting experience, but he is light years ahead of any rookie QB in this years class.

Not really JG had extremely good technique and a precision QB straight out of college. Pat is more of a gunslinger with sloppy technique.

He is a polarizing player.

Just remember that experts like Razor, Grimm, and tab have told us that arm strength doesn't matter because it can significantly improved once guys get to the NFL.

Exactly. I'm not sure how one can compare him to JG, especially when they emphasize athletic ability...

Mahomes is one heck of an athlete, so you're out in left field on that one imo. PM played College Baseball for two years too.

Yeah, he is. But JG isn't...

Oh I get it, circular reasoning...

Trying to make a negitive a positive. Brilliant.

No, you took my post wrong. Mahomes is very athletic, but JG isn't. The comparison is rather flat on many aspects, but that would be a major one.

What?

Is JG .............Jimmy G?

You say he isn't athletic?

Seriously?

No, I'm saying he's not very athletic. Big difference.

What?

I am and here is JG's draft scouting report from nfl.com

PICK ANALYSIS:
"This kid's got a quick release, good arm and is very athletic. Tom Brady, at his age, and Ryan Mallett's uncertain status forces this pick. This is an insurance policy for an unknown future. He's an interesting quarterback. He makes every throw. The feet and quick release are what stand out." -- {Mike Mayock}

Strengths
Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence.

Weaknesses
Is a tad undersized with small hands and short arms. Uses a three-quarters delivery that could lead to batted balls. Works heavily out of the shotgun in a spread offense, and footwork could require adjustment to working from under center. Does not always feel pressure in the pocket. Does not rip the deep out or drive the ball with high RPMs. Undershoots and often hangs the deep ball. Makes receivers work for the ball downfield, and deep accuracy could stand to improve. Makes a lot of simple, one-look reads and was not heavily challenged by consistent pressure or complex looks in the Ohio Valley Conference.

Mahomes doesn't have small hands and is probably going to run little faster 40:

Other than those two things I think you will see many more similarities than not.

He's athletic, but not very athletic. The difference between Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. Dude's been making plays with his legs since he took over for Davis Webb. I've watched quite a bit of Mahommes. I like Texas Tech, the air raid is a beautiful thing to watch. But Mahommes got wheels, a level under Manziel and Baker (Another Aggie) tbh. I also wouldn't consider him a runner like the others, nor would he imo. but my boy JG is not in those classes. You know I would never slander JG. I always thought him and Bridgewater were the best in that class. I've been a fan of his for a long time.

I liked JG coming out, but my guy was Carr, but we couldn't hold our water and traded up for a goof ball.

There is a difference between saying something doesn't matter and saying something can be improved. Let's try to not put words in people's mouths.

Some players are closer than others to being "finished products" coming out of college. I'm pretty sure I've read plenty of scouting reports that have lines like "needs to improve lower body strength", "needs to improve technique", etc. I've never said Kessler will be great, but I think it is a little early to write the book.

I don't really want to get this too off track though.

As far as Mahomes, I think he is going to look really good in the combine/controlled environment. His film is kind of all over the place, but his highs are really good.

Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes talks NFL draft combine preparations

There's an interview he just did. I'll have to look into what's going on with the wrap on his left hand.

I don't like the Pennington comp. either, two different style of QBs. But no way is he Dak Prescott either. If i had to do a comp. I'd say he's Paxton Lynch without the height. Both can run when they have to, and both need work, a lot of work. Especially footwork.

He will WOW! at the combine. He wont make it to the 2nd round and past KC at 27.

Would you all say that Mahomes is better than Cardale Jones when he came out last year?

Yes, by light years.

Mahomes reminds me of Stafford without the polish. Same build, athleticism, naturally elite arm talent, gunslinger mentality. Other than playing in a system offense and his horrendous footwork I think we're looking at the best comparison.

Thats a pretty fare comparison, other than the horrendous footwook comment, I agee.

Part of his gunslinger character is in part, due to the system, because they asked him to throw it 80 times per game.

I wouldn't mind having a Stafford QB-ing the Browns.

For me a comp needs to be based on major traits the 2 prospects share.

Pat and JG have quick release in common.
But Mahomes delivery is neither clean nor compact..(nor consistent for that matter)
I don't see the 'urgency' in his decision making...I see a tendency to hold the ball and adlib.

RE: JG scouting report

I find it amusing that they knock him on system and accuracy. Imho those knocks are typical of cursory reports that don't delve deeper. You could literally pan any prospect with that type of generalized critique. They had the same knock against Dak...its lazy scouting imo

I saw a Derek Carr comp the other day. I had to stop and think about it, but I can see that.

Carr was further along in his development, but he came out as redshirt senior and Mahomes is coming out as a true junior. Plus, Mahomes only played two years of QB in high school.

They have similar body types and both have gunslinger mentalities and like to use the entire field.

I get draft comps but would rather discuss the prospect themselves and their skillset.

Comps are in the eye of the beholder, some skillsets are similar some are not. I like comps that highlight a specific trait because overall comps have too many holes.

anyhow....back to Mahomes...I can't gauge his arm strength from his tape
....and his throwing motion is kinda all over the place

Who else holds the ball and adlibs? Most of the good ones, like Rodgers, Ben and others who trust in their athletic abilitys to perry the rusher, the key is that they don't lose sight down the field and Mahomes has the same abilities to strug off even a big old DT. Sometimes it bites you, but other times they equal big plays. As a coach you have to balance that natural ability with some restraint, but how much restrants, often times depends on both the said QB's maturity and grasp of the concepts of the system and also the Coach that must coach him.

I view his arm as above anyone else in the class. Regardless of his footwork or motion just God given power he's alone imo. I'm sure it doesn't hurt that he was a pitcher.