|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,445 Likes: 1379
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,445 Likes: 1379 |
No one cares about your suggestions. Crawl back to your hole. Now who's back?
Tackles are tackles.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,243 Likes: 361
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,243 Likes: 361 |
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams? Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned. Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire? I think it could be as simple as he kept getting better, but he may have started a good ways behind Williams. He may have just needed reps. He still does need reps. It also could tie into his "leadership" ability. He doesn't really strike me as a guy that grabs the reins. He can do it, but I'm not sure it is really his nature to do it. Being humble and "waiting your turn" can be a double-edged sword. It also could relate to his nickname being "Mr. Biscuit" (per his UNC bio- Link ), how do you take that guy seriously?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Hey if somebody asks me what I like to be called I say it..but I answer to the several shorter nicknames...no big deal.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891 |
Hey, DiamDawg...
I'm not a QB guru, so can you tell me what it means when he locks his front leg and why that's a bad thing, thanks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Hey, DiamDawg...
I'm not a QB guru, so can you tell me what it means when he locks his front leg and why that's a bad thing, thanks. Locking the front leg can be a problem because: --it can lead to higher throws because you are not transferring your weight properly --cause problems w/your over the top motion and has a tendency to have more of a chance of dropping down towards a side-arm throw --leads to injury when being hit by low by defenders I think that this is one of the biggest differences between throwing a football and throwing a baseball. Pitchers lock that front leg all the time. It helps w/cut fastballs and similar pitches. It gives you movement on your pitch. You don't want that in football. I think you want to have an "athletic" lower body when throwing a football, where you are generating a lot of power through your hips. This not only helps w/velocity, but is huge when determining accuracy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
Hey, DiamDawg...
I'm not a QB guru, so can you tell me what it means when he locks his front leg and why that's a bad thing, thanks. Vers did a good job .. - stops weight distribution pre-maturely .. That lead to .. - reduced velocity .. it stops your follow through short is the best way I can describe it - may cause throw to be high Those are the technical things .. As Vers mentioned .. it also makes u way more injury prone .. u lose all "flexibility" to absorb the hit ..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
As to your question Vers .. when I saw it I said I'd like to ask the coach a couple questions ...
- why .. - after seeing what he did in his 1st year .. if u could go back and do it again .. would u make the same decision ..
But at the least no of the day .. I would give it zero weight .. what I saw on film would override it ..
If u put a lot of weight on the fact he didn't start last year .. your looking for reasons not to draft him .. and there's nothing wrong with that .. but thats what your doing with a years full of tape since then ..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Well bro, I think there are some leadership issues there. Believe me, I knew the answer[s] before I posted the question.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
Well bro, I think there are some leadership issues there. Believe me, I knew the answer[s] before I posted the question. Well talk to me .. what r the issues and your source(s) .. and I don't mean a link .. your words good with me .. just curious as to where u got that info from .. also was the info before or after this year ... if before .. any clue how he faired/improved in that area over,the season .. that's why I would like to ask coach what his impressions were after the season ..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I didn't use one source. That would be ignorant. I googled the question and read all kinds of articles on the subject.
Basically, what I inferred from reading all of those articles was that Fedora [NC's HC] preferred Wiliams' experience/leadership. He did have Trub playing the third offensive series of each game and then go from there. He later abandoned that because he thought the team wasn't responding well to the switch.
This went on for two years, bro.
It could be a total blunder by Fedora. However, one has to wonder why a blah qb like Williams who had very little talent, especially in the passing game, was able to hold off the guy some people want to choose first overall in the draft.
Sorry bro, but that seems like a huge gamble to me.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
I didn't use one source. That would be ignorant. I googled the question and read all kinds of articles on the subject.
Basically, what I inferred from reading all of those articles was that Fedora [NC's HC] preferred Wiliams' experience/leadership. He did have Trub playing the third offensive series of each game and then go from there. He later abandoned that because he thought the team wasn't responding well to the switch.
This went on for two years, bro.
It could be a total blunder by Fedora. However, one has to wonder why a blah qb like Williams who had very little talent, especially in the passing game, was able to hold off the guy some people want to choose first overall in the draft.
Sorry bro, but that seems like a huge gamble to me. And thats why I said I would like to talk to coach .. to see what his rear view mirror looked like .. I gotta go .. I'll be back ..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211 |
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams? Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned. Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire? Maybe because no one is suggesting that the Browns pass on Garrett for Kizer. And are you suggesting my question was lame? Seriously? Not sure where that came from. You asked a question and I offered my thoughts on it. Not sure how that translates to suggesting your question was lame. I think that there are about 3 people on the planet suggesting that we take Trub at #12 I think the question about drafting him is should we take him at #12 if he is available. Kizer should be in that discussion as well.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
They both shouldn't. We haven't been able to make a QB yet, there's no reason to think that we can do that with this crop.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211 |
They should be discussed The conclusion of the discussion might ought to be no. But they should still be discussed
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,429 Likes: 15
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,429 Likes: 15 |
Well here we are at #12 ; do we take one of the QB's left on the Board ,,,, Pause ,,, Nah ..
There are going to be some Stud's on both D and O at this juncture .. GRAB ONE !
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Not sure where that came from. It came from this: Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire? Not arguing w/you, but I think the question I asked was a legitimate question.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211 |
I do too that's why I think we should be asking the same question about Kizer
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I'll answer your question w/out snarkiness:
--I see way more people wanting Trub in the first round than Kizer. I really don't know if anyone is championing us drafting Kizer in round one.
--This is a Trub thread, not a Kizer thread. Heck, does he even have his own thread?
--Zaire was a way better qb prospect than Williams was.
With all that said..........we can ask your question. I wouldn't draft Kizer w/the first overall pick either. But, none of that diminishes the question I had about Trub.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891 |
OK thanks to both of you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211 |
When I asked the question about Kizer it was a toss in comment of a related thought that came to mind.
I am not asking why no one on here is asking the question but why no one period is asking. Mayock has him as his #1 overall Qb. I hear Mayock asking the Trub question all the time yet never a mention about Kizer.
Williams was established at UNC when Trub got there. He led UNC to several good seasons. Zaire had never established himself.
Maybe they just attribute that to Brian Kelly being a bozo of a headcoach having no idea what he's doing.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
When I asked the question about Kizer it was a toss in comment of a related thought that came to mind.
I am not asking why no one on here is asking the question but why no one period is asking. Mayock has him as his #1 overall Qb. I hear Mayock asking the Trub question all the time yet never a mention about Kizer.
Williams was established at UNC when Trub got there. He led UNC to several good seasons. Zaire had never established himself.
Maybe they just attribute that to Brian Kelly being a bozo of a headcoach having no idea what he's doing. Not to far off on the Kelly comment .. I have no clue how good dude from NC was .. but I can tell u he couldn't be less accurate,than Zaire ... he may be just as innacurate but no way was he more ... *L* Sad part .. if Zaire don't get hurt ... no ... what I was going to say wasn't accurate either ... *L* ..
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I think your facts are off. Williams was not even the starter. Bryn Renner was a fifth year starter. He got hurt early on and they replaced him w/Williams [who can't hit the broad side of a barn] instead of giving the ball to Trub. The next year, they went w/Williams again and I kinda explained the rest to Diam in an earlier post.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9 |
I want nothing to do with Kizer. He even looked terrible in the combine drills.
Since this thread is about Trub ....
Watching his interviews something about him rubs me the wrong way. I don't know what it is but I have a bad vibe about him now that I didn't before. I don't know that it matters or not though. I do worry the big lights might have a negative effect on his personality though. It's just a feeling though nothing remotely bad enough to discount him. He still has the best skill set of the top QBs in this draft.
I have patrick pretty high on my wish list. Maybe at round 2? He would be fun to watch at least =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Yeah, I think there are some maturity and leadership issues w/Trub. We don't need another BQ in the locker room.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
Somebody is going to play the sucker and put a huge investment in a kid with 13 starts. Whoever that is will most likely lose their job for it in the end.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Of course the ASSumption there is he fails
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
I guess maybe the question should be how many QB's with less than 20 NCAA starts have been drafted in the first round period, much less top 12?
And if there are any, how successful were they in the NFL?
I guess you expect us to make history. lol
It seems some expect this kid to do something that simply isn't done.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I guess maybe the question should be how many QB's with less than 20 NCAA starts have been drafted in the first round period, much less top 12? Cam Newton and Mark Sanchez are the only two that come to mind. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...rder_by=defaultMaybe Tannehill? I don't know how many games he started as a junior.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
Sanchez had 19
You're pretty much spot on about Cam.
Tannehill had more starts.
So even though two out of those three had more starts than Mtrub, only one has found any real success in the NFL and that is Cam. Unless of course unless you would want Tannehill as your franchise QB? I wouldn't.
I haven't seen anyone who really believes Mtrub is the next Cam Newton so unless you think one of the other two would be a good pick for your franchise QB, I believe my post still stands.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I agree with you, just pointing out that there were a few guys.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,219 Likes: 211 |
How many did wentz have ?
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
I believe it was 23.
And that was my only question about Wentz was his limited starts. But there were two seasons to watch film of and I felt that with even so few starts, there was enough to endorse drafting him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
So your train of thought is to simply NEVER TRY AND GET OUR FRANCHISE QB. Odds are they fail as the rate is around 50%. If Hue thinks this kid has GROWN as a QB over the last year to be a PROSPECT for a Franchise QB...I don't see the error in taking him at 12. I will not change my mind from yours or any other QB evaluations on this Board.
We got to pursue the holy grail. 13 starts is meaningless at this stage. Actually 3 years starting in a One Read Spread Offense might be worse as the REPETITION will be harder to break.
The key is Accuracy, Arm Strength, Footwork and Football Intelligence along with being able to be coached up. If Hue Jackson who know a boat load more than anyone on this board decides HE IS THE GUY...I'm there.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
I would take him #1 over MG right now ...
And yes pit .. the amount of college starts scares me .. but not enough to not draft him .. i really like this kid ...
A couple things about the success of the one year wonder college kids ... and i am not arguing your point .. the NUMBERS support u by about 98% - 2% ... i may be dumb but i ain't stupid enough to argue that one .. *L* ..
- your saying if Mitch stood in school one more year he would be draftable because then he would have the required number of college starts ... in essence thats what your saying ...
I'm not sure how that correlates ... maybe there first year or two in the league .. but after that .. i don't see any correlation at all ...
I'd also like to see a list of the QB's that were one year wonders ... i would venture to guess a lot of them are guys coming out of "gimmicky" offenses and guys that are more atheletic than good QB's ...
I really like this kid's skill set ... only negative to me is him locking his front leg ... love his ACCURACY, decision making was very good and hes atheletic .... so I'm certainly not going to pass on him cause of the number of starts he made in college ...
Sorry ... that makes no sense to me ..
This is all mute ... were gonna take MG at 1 and Mitch won't be there at 12 ...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
What my point is more than anything is having a body of evidence. I don't believe 13 starts gives you a large enough body of evidence on a kid. There's a reason an argument on that would only have a 2% chance as you stated.
Drafting based on potential rather than a strong body of evidence when it comes to QB's has killed a lot of careers.
I'm not saying the kid can't or won't be good. But I'll stand with your quote about it being 98% to 2%. I really hate those odds.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
What my point is more than anything is having a body of evidence. I don't believe 13 starts gives you a large enough body of evidence on a kid. There's a reason an argument on that would only have a 2% chance as you stated.
Drafting based on potential rather than a strong body of evidence when it comes to QB's has killed a lot of careers.
I'm not saying the kid can't or won't be good. But I'll stand with your quote about it being 98% to 2%. I really hate those odds. While I agree with you that we don't have enough evidence to know if Trubisky is good, the team can increase those odds by meeting with him, working him out, etc. I would never draft Trubisky with the first pick, but I will understand if we draft him with the 12th pick.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,198 Likes: 1367 |
I don't really have a problem with those who disagree.
I just can't wrap my mind around using a pick in the first half of the first round on a QB with only 13 NCAA starts. History would dictate that won't end well.
There's so much talent in this draft and we need so much help on D, I can't see taking such a huge gamble on a kid with so little experience at the NCAA level.
I'm not going to lambaste anyone who disagrees with me. Just laying out the logic as to my thought process.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98 |
I don't really have a problem with those who disagree.
I just can't wrap my mind around using a pick in the first half of the first round on a QB with only 13 NCAA starts. History would dictate that won't end well.
There's so much talent in this draft and we need so much help on D, I can't see taking such a huge gamble on a kid with so little experience at the NCAA level.
I'm not going to lambaste anyone who disagrees with me. Just laying out the logic as to my thought process. I understand your position Pit but I just think this kid will be something special and would hate to see him playing elsewhere ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I understand your position Pit but I just think this kid will be something special and would hate to see him playing elsewhere ... Why do you think he will be special?
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Film Breakdown: Mitch Trubisky
|
|