DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 14 Jets 17 Postgame thoughts

I disagree... the pitch is WAY out in front of Crow. If blame must be assigned, I think it's on Kizer. Hit Crow in the fingers, I'd say.


In general, I'm ok with benching Kizer. Maybe I'm just resigning myself to what's happening. Kizer is not progressing. At best, he's where he was at when we started the season. He's probably regressed a little. The guy needed to sit, so now he's going to sit. As far as the coaching decision goes, at some point patience becomes coddling. Kizer needs to take this decision, refocus, and get to work. There's a laundry list of things he needs to improve... many that he can absolutely nail down outside of Sunday.

Even if Crowell had caught the pitch the play probably would have gone for a loss as there was a free defender in front of them. Kizer screwed up in that he didn't turn up field and make the LBer commit to one or the other.

Kizer called the play, yes.

*LOL* .... that was great ... ty ...

Kizer audibled/hot-read to that option. Why that was even a choice right there is the problem.

I thought it was a poor pitch...and Crow went after it with his usual burst and enthusiasm.

My dad showed up to watch the game with me and tie flies. As soon as the turnover happened, he got up to leave. I was like, dad I got a porterhouse steak for you at half. His response was he would rather go home and eat my step mother's two day old leftover's than watch another second of the game; he knew the Browns were digging another hole they couldn't get out of. Can't say I blame him.

Over the last few years, whenever we get inside the 10 yard line, its almost as if someone on the sideline says "Hey, lets try this, this will never work.". I have seen some of the most boneheaded plays that anyone could imagine from the Browns inside the 10. Its unbelievable and beyond exasperating.

I jokingly say to my dad each time we get into the redzone: let's just kneel it and take a fg ... sadly, I'm more and more serious each week

That is actually a sad story.

I like you, Dave. I think you are a great poster. However, I disagree w/your take. The play calls aren't stupid........the execution sucks.

We have inferior talent and we are inexperienced. Carolina scored on a very similar play this past week. It's not the call in this situation. It's the talent trying to execute it.

It is.
Dad bailed after ONE turnover?
With a steak ready, flies to be tied and quality time with the boy Varmint?

when kizer is in hue is horrible playcaller....hogan in and hue starts to kick ass...can we claim he leans toward hogan or just hogan gets it...

i think hogan just gets it

Count me in on that aswell....I was sitting here watching and as soon as I saw Kizer audible to the option and the fumble happened I clicked the off button.....

I actually got angry. I don't normally get that upset but something snapped in my head and I yelled, "What the %@$@# was that!! If you want to run the damn ball then run the damn thing but for the love of God an OPTION PLAY!!!!"

I did turn the game back on and was brought back into a calm easy and even excited mood watching Hogan.

I read somewhere that Hogan did well in garbage time??? The final score was 17-14 and until half way through the 4th there was no "garbage" time. Hogan got the ball out on time, on target, and the non existent WR's and players that suck so bad actually looked like an avg offense. If understanding the concepts and having an extra season under your belt is all Hogan needed to just pop into the game and pick the team up then boy howdy give him a shot.

I still haven't figured out why and how Hogan can't ever be the starter seems to me he did an excellent job at Stanford in a pro style game against some tough teams and big games. I always thought his throwing motion looked funny but so did Bernie's. I guess I just don't understand how you write guys off so easily, not all the great QB's were first overall's ya know that right??

Hogan knows the installs and how the plays should be run.

Imo Hogan pre snap sees the defensive alignment an knows where he wants to go with the ball.

That an he throws a very nice catchable ball.

It hurts to "Like" that post.

That stupid option 'option' should have NEVER been in the game plan.

Hue wasn't ready to use four downs at the goal line...burned a timeout...and called a stupid Crow run up Zeitler's butt.

Hue won't roll Kizer out at mid-filed, but he will at the goal line.

The play-calling in the red zone needs to be better.

Knowing we have inferior talent and are inexperienced the OC needs to keep those plays in the book and save them for garbage time. We needed an early TD. This is on the coaches for sending the play in. And on Kiser for not executing Hue's play in the huddle by saying I'm keeping it guys...block.

I agree, it isn't the plays except if we know our talent is questionable, maybe we don't try as many gadgets is my thought, but I agree, if we pull it off, great call.

Let me know when that happens. Until then, maybe we could try a play action left / QB bootleg right / TE drag right and make the LB decide which guy he is defending and which will score a touchdown. It never fails for our opponents. Or this, if that is too "gadget-y" for you, just run it between the tackles 4 times and see if Crowell is worth the money he can't stop thinking about. At the worst you turn it over on downs at the 1-2 yard line.

If Vers was referring to the McCaferry TD it wasn’t even close to the same play ... well OK .. it was a QB option ... Cam had 3 options ours had 2 ...

Cam had the run option and the pitch option just like we did ... he also had McCaffery for the shovel pass .... it was a really cool play design ... he went with the shovel pass to Caff ...

Saw another really cool play from of all places the Bears OC ... u may have seen it ... it was the play Mitch scored the TD on .. really cool design ... it ended up being an option play with Mitch as the pitch option ... if u didn’t see it .. YouTube Mitch’s TD run ...

So two teams run an option on the goal line w/the qb rolling left and they aren't "even close" because the one team had an extra option?



The success/fail rate of these option plays had nothing to do w/execution and it had everything to do w/one coach calling a good play and another coach calling a bad play.


Hmmmmmmmm.........very interesting.

Defending 2 options is the same as defending 3 options ...

Got it .. i love learning, thanks for the education ...

I never said they were the same play. I said they were "similar" plays and you came back w/your infinite wisdom and said they weren't even close.

I’m not going to sit here and argue with u over how i phrased something ... i’ll Leave that petty BS To U ....

u said they were similar and that was decieving to me .... as i said they were BOTH OPTIONS one just had 33% more options .... thats not similar to me ...

It was a cool play design .. as was the one in the chicago game ...

If u didn’t see it go youtube it ...

BYE BYE ...

50% more options...just sayin'.

...or 33% fewer options. Just sayin'...

You started the argument and are now saying you won't argue the petty BS. LOL....

I was being nice with the additional options.... not sure why as he certainly doesn’t deserve it with his tude lately ... especially from me ... *L* ...

Those turnarounds seem instant (almost overnight) and the result of one or two particular draft picks or FA acquisitions to those who don't follow that team closely. When you look at most of those "sudden" turnarounds, you can go back 2 or 3 years and see pieces being put into place that facilitated that turnaround.

Which brings up the $25,000 question.. this core of young guys we have brought in, is this our 2 or 3 years of putting pieces in place for the "sudden" turnaround in the next year or two.. or are we just swapping pieces and treading water?

I sure hope that it's setting up for the big "turnaround," but I worry that we keep letting essential pieces go to the point where we do end up treading water.

There are a boatload of rookies and second year players gettin significant playing time. Another boatload will arrive next spring. 2020 is the breakout year from what I see.

I am not down on the selections of the players that were drafted. I question the QB stuff. In the NFL you will not win consistently until the QB has been found.

Eh, I would mostyl disagree. You're talking about Cam Newton who has run the option since he was a child and Kizer who to my knowledge has never run it. Neither has Crow. Two players attempting to do things they should never be asked to.

That right there is the POINT and another reason why Hue gets the criticism he gets. It was cute...and stupid...for that option to even be an option for the QB at that moment. I added the BOLD to the end of your post.

Don'tchaknow? No good deed goes unpunished.

Kind of, yes. I've watched the play multiple times.. Kizer didn't "pitch" it as much as he pushed it with both hands in Crows direction. Looked totally awkward.

I understand players need to execute but coaches need to call plays that the players have a higher probability of executing well. That's how you put your players in a position to succeed.

My biggest issue with that whole sequence of events was.. we had 1st and goal from the 6, ran for 3 yards.. 2nd and goal from the 3.. we throw an incompletion.. then run the option.

I know hindsight is always 20/20.. but with 1st and goal from the 6, I said emphatically that we should run it 3 times.. Hue says he wants to run the ball, so given 3 chances he doesn't trust that we can get 6 yards?

And that why this is a buetiful game and how we all see things differently ...

I had no problem with that play call ... none ... as long as its a play they practiced until they looked like a well oiled machine running it in practice ... witch i’d be shocked if they didn’t ...

So on this one .. i have zero problem with the play call .. the flaws in the execution started with the pitch ... your 100% correct .. bad pitch ... to me it looked like instead of pitching it with his left hand ... he guided it with his left and literally just pushed it with his right ... that looked nothing like any pitch i’ve ever seen before .. *L* ... NOT HUES FAULT as long as we looked good doing it in practice ..

It was not a good pitch .. it was however catchable ... not an easy catch but theres no reason crow should not have secured that ball ... it was out in front of him and it hit his hands in a way he should have secured it ... again ... NOT HUES FAULT ...

So i have zero problem with that play call ... obviously others do ... and now u bring a new angle to it .. u didn’t like the sequence cause u felt we should have run it 3 times ... what a great game ...

My problem is on the 4th down call .. that one was downright atrocious! Obviously their was flawed execution on that one also but the play call DOOMED THEM FROM THE START!!!! I’d of actually rather have seen him try the pitch play again ... *L* ...

Shortest distance between to two points is a straight line with an expensive Offensive Line.. lol

Sometimes the roads between those two points are under construction and u need to take a detour ... sometimes the construction is so bad u may even have to fly ...

*LOL* ...

All flights have been grounded until next draft.

What about taking detours? ... hopefully the skies clear up with a new pilot ...

And that's the funny part about this DC. That pitch option is used a lot even in high school. It's used a ton in college. If there's one play that Kizer should have been able to execute, that option was one of them. He simply didn't.