DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mr. Kizer

At this stage, I think this is the route to go. Our QB situation has been beyond screwy and everyone is likely confused.

Just play Kizer, he can sink or swim. Hopefully he makes an idiot out of me and shows being benched for a week actually makes a difference.

I agree - but only because our QB situation is so pathetic.

Starting and inept rookie who is struggling (not saying that will be the result - but it might well be) and having the rest of the team struggle as a result and lose games we'd win with an 'average' QB ... is a huge detriment to everyone else on the team in terms of their development and moral and the perpetual culture of losing. If we had a QB that gave us a better chance to win games - I'd be all about starting that QB over Kizer. jmho - but while we need to know what we have in Kizer before the next draft - I don't think it should be att he expense of everything else. I'd rather just draft a QB with the first pick regardless of what you think you have in Kizer and win more games this year ...... sadly that's not really an option because of our QB situation.

I keep reading we have to play him so we know what we need to next year in the draft ...

So i got a question ...

If he plays like Jared Goff did last year as a rookie would that tell u we should draft a qb at the top in this draft? ...

If he plays like RG3 or Kap did in their rookie years does that mean we don’t need to draft a qb at the top of the draft? ...

Serious question to all those that say we need to play him so we know what to do next year ...

After u answer the questions ... come on back ... we’ll chat from there about how much were actually going to learn no matter what Kizer does the rest of the year ..

I don't know whether or not that can even be answered. If there is no improvement by season's end, then I expect you have no choice but to acquire the QB of your choosing. If he suddenly plays lights-out or at least shows significant improvement, then you are in a quandary as to who Kizer really is. Not easy...

I don't think him playing till year end resolves anything. We could have set him back and he's Montana in the making or he could have a few nice games (hello Derek!) and we are no wiser.

We draft or acquire a QB next offseason is my strong feeling.

If Kizer beats that guy out, then we know. If he doesn't we know.

You can't sit on this position till its fixed. Even then...

That's why we have more picks than a geetar shop.

However DK plays for the rest of the season I think we should draft a QB. If DK doesn't play well then it is a no brainer to draft a QB high next year. If he plays well we could still draft the best QB available when we pick. If they both play well we can keep who we want and trade the other and get some picks back. If one of the QB's coming out looks like a franchise QB we shouldn't pass on him. JMO

Your point is 100% valid. And there is a host of QB's that I didn't get to see play that "stunk" based on their first year records - I'd have to check but I think Aikman, Peyton and Bradshaw all have very bad losing rookie years? And I'd place a large wager that each of their teams was much better than the current Browns.

RG3 and Kap are examples of the opposite.

With that said I think I can understand people's sentiments even if there are examples of people sitting and learning, playing great and busting or playing like busts and then 'getting it' .... With players like Wentz and Dak and Watson all 'bursting' onto the scene and looking legit - easy to want the same regardless of what the odds are when that QB is playing with WR talent that the Browns has.

DeShone Kizer calls players-only offensive meeting
Posted by Charean Williams on October 20, 2017, 6:49 PM EDT

Getty Images
In an attempt to display his leadership skills, Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday.

“As I said earlier this week, it’s about doing more, and that’s just a small thing that we can add into the week,” Kizer told Mary Kay Cabot of cleveland.com. “It’s something that I think can allow us to just open up the communication line and make sure they understand what I’m thinking and make sure I understand what they’re thinking.”

Kizer returns from a one-game benching to start against the Titans. He and the Browns have insisted sitting and watching Kevin Hogan was invaluable for the rookie. He showed that Friday.

“After sitting last week, it was something I thought we’d benefit from,” Kizer said of the meeting. “Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn’t able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be alright.”

Kizer said several players usually speak during the weekly captains’ meeting, but he was the only one to talk during the special offensive meeting he called.

“It’s not easy especially in our position where we are right now,” fellow rookie David Njoku. “It’s shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it’s big-time, and I’m excited. He’s ready to turn this around and I’m 100 percent fully behind him.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/20/deshone-kizer-calls-players-only-offensive-meeting/

DeShone Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday and addressed the unit

Updated on October 20, 2017 at 6:25 PM Posted on October 20, 2017 at 5:57 PM

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio -- In his first game back from his one-week benching, Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer stepped up Friday and called a players-only offensive meeting in preparation for Sunday's game against the Titans.

"As I said earlier this week, it's about doing more, and that's just a small thing that we can add into the week,'' Kizer told cleveland.com. "It's something that I think can allow us to just open up the communication line and make sure they understand what I'm thinking and make sure I understand what they're thinking.''

Kizer said with the 0-6 Browns losing three of their games by only three points, any little thing might help.

"Maybe that's the separator in a game where we were able to discuss something on Friday that we hadn't discussed all week that can allow them to get one extra step on a defender that we can be able to complete some passes,'' he said.

Kizer came up with the idea this week when thinking of ways he could step up as a leader of the team.

"After sitting last week, it was something I thought we'd benefit from,'' he said. "Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn't able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be all right.''

Kizer determined that his teammates should hear some things from him instead of just the coaches.

"It's just making sure that we can discuss the necessary things that go into completing passes, things we talk about every week, just making sure it's coming from me,'' he said. "It's a new perspective for some of these guys who are obviously new to this program and this organization. Maybe it sits a little better coming from me so we have a little more confidence going into Sunday.''

Related: Kizer returns from benching that 'sparked my competitive juices'

Kizer said it's customary for several players to speak on Friday during a captain's meeting, but during the special offensive meeting that he called, "I was the only guy.''

Teammates such as fellow rookie David Njoku said they were happy that Kizer took the initiative.

"It's not easy especially in our position where we are right now,'' the tight end said. "It's shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it's big-time and I'm excited. He's ready to turn this around and I'm 100 percent fully behind him.''

Njoku said Kizer handled the benching extremely well, and it inspired him to take on more of a leadership role.

"He watched and learned from a different point and I think it made him better,'' said Njoku. "A bunch of people would give up and say 'OK, let's work for next year.' But he's focused on the right now and that's what matters for us, and we really appreciate that.''

He said Kizer talked for about 10-15 minutes and it made an impact on his teammates.

"Kizer is a beast,'' Njoku said. "I tell everybody that because I truly believe that and he shows it. He's maturing every day, and obviously being a rookie, quarterback is probably one of the hardest things you can do. He's taking big, big steps and I'm really excited to see how he progresses.''

Njoku said the offense emerged from the meeting "closer as an offense, as a group. I think we're all on the same page a little more, so I think it will be a fun game for us.''

Fullback Dan Vitale also said Kizer showed a lot by putting himself out there.

"After he spent a week where he watched from the sidelines and now that he's back in, it gave him a chance to kind of look back and kind of reflect on mistakes he's made or mistakes we've made as an entire offense,'' said Vitale. "He talked about how we're going to go about fixing that and what we can do for him to help him, and how he's going to try and help us.''

A second-year pro, Vitale said it spoke to Kizer's quick development this season.

"I just saw a lot of growth in him just as a professional from that aspect, which is obviously very good to see and very exciting to see from a kid who's so young,'' said Vitale.

Like Njoku, Vitale said Kizer sent a strong message to the team by the way he handled his benching.

"He took it as an opportunity to learn to make some changes and not just sit there and pout,'' said Vitale.

Vitale said the speech made him want to dig even a little deep on Sunday against the Titans to support Kizer and end the winless streak.

"Obviously we haven't had the success we've wanted here, but this is that point now where it's now or never," he said. "When you've got a kid who's as young as him who wants to succeed as bad as he does, it's exciting for all of us and gets us all going.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/deshone_kizer_called_a_players.html

Man Kizer, prove me wrong for doubting you. Go in there and get the job done.

We've had so many QBs who are great off the field (McCoy, Delhomme, McCown, Kessler, Jason Campbell, and more), but we've never had a QB that also has the talent. So dumb.

Not so sure that was a great idea.

Maybe Kizer promised to not turn the ball over in the red zone. And to be accurate.

I agree with the overall theme of your post - We're not really going to know what we've got with Kizer even if he does end up playing 14 1/2 games on the season.

With that said, 14 1/2 games is something. Anyone. If we're going to seriously consider drafting a quarterback wherever we end up drafting, likely top 3, then we need to have some form of clue regarding an NFL level evaluation of Kizer.

In some sense, we already know a lot. The game is too fast for him, we need to see if it can begin to slow down a little; that'll at least give us some indication if this is just an overwhelmed rookie, much as Goff was, or if we're looking at a Weeden-esque player whom the game is simply too fast for.

This is especially true when the quarterback situation in the 2018 draft is very questionable. It's not that they're bad, it's just that they're not clear-cut slam dunks.

My hope for Kizer hit overdrive when B/R's Matt Miller claimed the Browns have the worst front office in football who should be fired, put his hand up for the job, and then did a podcast stating he would trade down and take Baker Mayfield to build around because he rates Darnold/Rosen/Allen as lower than the top quarterbacks from the 2015/2017 drafts. While Miller isn't perfect, he's also not alone.

Worse, still, Darnold is clearly the top QB and there is a lot of talk that he's not going to declare for the 2018 draft, as originally reported by Daniel Jeremiah citing, "several sources close to Darnold."

What I mean by it being especially true that Kizer should gain experience now is for two specific quarterback issues that aren't even related to Kizer.

If we do select one of the 2018 quarterbacks, as much as we'll love him, I'd bet Kizer kicks the $#!t out of him in camp. Kizer played well this preseason, but he ultimately won due to a lack of options rather than his own NFL-readiness. Kizer will be much better competition to any of the top 2018 rookies, even Darnold, so he'll likely get the nod.

Secondly, there is always the chance that the worst happens and we're just not prepared to take a rookie QB early in 2018. If Darnold doesn't declare, it won't shock me if the Browns don't fall in love with Rosen or Allen. I quite like Allen, am not huge on Rosen, and really like Darnold, but I wouldn't be sprinting to the podium with reckless abandon for any of them.

With that said, I'll also say that there is no Myles Garrett to muddy the waters in 2018. Saquon Barkley is amazing but my philosophy is to avoid running backs in the first round. There are some impressive corners and safeties like Derwin James and Minkah Fitzpatrick but nobody as incredible, as Garrett was, to make rolling the dice on a QB an impossible sacrifice.

TL;DR (Apologies for the long posts)

1. One season isn't enough to evaluate Kizer, but something is better than nothing of giving us an indication of his shortcomings and if they can be overcame. That might be why Hue has thrown Kizer in to the fire rather than giving him a gimmick offense like Trubisky/Kaep/RG3 that makes the numbers look a lot better than they would otherwise be.

2. Even if we draft a QB in 2018, he might not start immediately if Kizer has shown progress and the rookie isn't ready. Unlike with Kizer, that would put us in a situation where we could afford patience to correctly develop a young QB.

3. The reality that we might not at all draft a QB high in 2018. Certainly seems likely, but might not be so.

Kizer is a wanna be. Very articulate and smart but just all smooth talk. I wish I was wrong. We need to draft the best QB possible in 2018. We have to go big and get our man. No jacking around. We need real football guys to determine if Hue is worth wasting time on. Go Browns!!

Cleveland Browns absolutely nowhere at quarterback -- Terry Pluto


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- After all the years and all the Cleveland Browns quarterbacks since 1999...

After this game, a 12-9 overtime loss to Tennessee...

After Cody Kessler came into the game early in the third quarter...

I know, I have yet to finish a sentence.

That's because I don't know what to say.

I'll start with this: When it comes to their quarterback situation, the Browns are nowhere.

Absolutely, positively nowhere.

They have no real starter.

They have no clear direction from the coaching staff on who should start.

The Browns are 0-7 this season, and only four times has a Browns quarterback gone the distance in a game.

Seven games into the season and three quarterbacks have played for the orange helmets.

Seven games into the season and none of the three quarterbacks has a single victory in their NFL careers.

Sigh.

NO REAL PLAN

I'd like to rip Hue Jackson for jerking DeShone Kizer out of the game, but I can't.

That's because I didn't think Kizer was ready to open the season as the Browns quarterback.

Jackson quickly gave up on Brock Osweiler (my choice). He was enamored with Kizer's obvious physical gifts ... strong arm on a sturdy 6-foot-4, 233-pound frame.

He's not ready.

I also believe Jackson has no clue of what he wants to do about his quarterbacks. He just wants to win a game. His record of 1-22 as coach of the Browns is weighing on him.

Like so many Browns coaches before him, Jackson can't believe it's so hard to win an NFL game ... any game ... any where.

So that has led to him changing quarterbacks ... over and over.

Last week, Kevin Hogan started what became a 33-17 loss in Houston. He threw three interceptions.

This week, Kizer returned to the starting lineup.

Kizer threw an interception on the Browns final possession of the first half.

Kizer threw an interception on the Browns first possession of the second half.

"You can't keep turning the ball over in the National Football League," said Jackson.

Kizer's confidence has to be feel bruised and blue right now.

"I can't worry about confidence," said Jackson. "If you keep turning the ball over, you can't play."

HERE COMES CODY

When the Browns stopped Tennessee on the Cleveland 1-yard line early in the third quarter, the Browns took over.

Cody Kessler came into the game ... for the first time this season.

I was almost screaming, "WHAT???"

Jackson has now benched Kizer twice for the second half. He also has benched Kizer for a full game in Houston.

On this sunny Sunday, Kizer was 12-of-20 passing for 114 yards. His longest completion was 19 yards.

With those two interceptions, he now has 11 this season. No one else in the NFL as more eight.

Which brings us to Kessler, who had a few nice moments. From the Cleveland 1-yard line, he led the Browns on a 10-play, 70-yard drive. That led to a 47-yard Zane Gonzalez field goal.

The Gregg Williams defense was excellent. It held Tennessee to four field goals. The Titans had only 80 yards rushing on 25 carries.

If the Browns could have scored only lousy touchdown, they could have won.

But they didn't.

Kessler was 10-of-19 passing for 121 yards and an interception.

In the Browns two possessions during the overtime, Kessler went three-and-out.

So what do the Browns do next?

Jackson said Kessler had some flow to the offense, but he made no commitment about next week.

The Browns quarterback play has been even more than awful. It's been destructive because of 17 interceptions this season.

They had only 14 interceptions in 2016.

So what's next at quarterback?

Who knows. And that's one of the saddest aspects of this season.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...art_river_index

Musical QBs.
What a mess.

With these 3 x QBs on a roster and Kaepernick unemployed i reckon he might have a slam dunk case in his collusion suit. :-/

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Deshone Kizer's late Friday night out partying rankled coach Hue Jackson following Sunday's 12-9 loss to the Titans.

Kizer was replaced by Cody Kessler in the third quarter after throwing back-to-back interceptions for a total of 11 this season.

WOIO Channel 19 obtained video of Kizer partying with teammates at a downtown Cleveland establishment at 1:30 Saturday morning. The Browns practice on Saturday in preparation for Sunday's game.

At first Jackson thought there must be some mistake.

"It means a lot to me,'' Jackson said of him being out that late. "A guy's personal time is his personal time, but I still think that's not what our guys do. I think our guys work at what they do, and I'd be surprised if that happened. I have never heard of that. I don't think DeShone has that kind of character or personality that way. That's what it is."

Informed that Channel 19 has the video, Jackson said, "It is not a curfew, but you are right. You said it. That is the first I have heard of it. I appreciate you guys sharing that with me. Thank you."

Jackson is in the process of deciding who will start at quarterback Sunday in London against the Vikings, and said "everything is on the table.''

Asked about the video, Kizer said, "I am not here to talk about my personal life right now."

Pressed on if the late-night partying shows a lack of commitment, Kizer said, "Absolutely not. I was out. I was at the facility the next day, preparing for the game and the game right before that. Once again, I am not here to talk about my personal life."

Receiver Ricardo Louis also didn't think it was wise for Kizer to be out that late with the Browns trying to win their first game and Kizer just being reinstated as the starting quarterback.

"I don't think I'd be doing that,'' Louis said. "When you're a young guy in this league, you have to (learn now to prepare). He's learning right now. Preparation for success is such a fine line.''

Louis noted, however, that Kizer prepared all well week for the Titans.

Related: Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday afternoon

Kizer's night out -- with teammates -- came hours after he showed maturity by calling a players-only offensive meeting to get the unit on the same page heading into the Titans game.

Kizer told cleveland.com on Friday afternoon that with the Browns losing three of their six games by only three points, any little thing might help the then 0-6 team.

"Maybe that's the separator in a game where we were able to discuss something on Friday that we hadn't discussed all week that can allow them to get one extra step on a defender that we can be able to complete some passes,'' he said.

Kizer said he came up with the idea after being reinstated from his one-week benching. He had also been yanked the week before at halftime of the Jets game.

"After sitting last week, it was something I thought we'd benefit from,'' he said. "Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn't able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be alright.''

Teammates such as fellow rookie David Njoku were happy that Kizer took the initiative.

"It's not easy especially in our position where we are right now,'' said Njoku. "It's shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it's big-time and I'm excited. He's ready to turn this around and I'm 100% fully behind him.''

Kizer's bar night, captured by many on social media, came a week after Kenny Britt and Corey Coleman were sent home early from the 33-17 loss to the Texans Houston game and fined for missing curfew the night before.

Britt was back in the starting lineup against the Titans.

"We have dealt with it,'' said Jackson. "It was an in-house deal. I dealt with it. Moved on, moved forward and we will keep it that way. We will keep it in house."

The Browns are also sensitive about their rookie quarterbacks being captured on social media partying close to the game because of everything they went through with Johnny Manziel, the No. 22 overall pick in 2014.

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Jack McCurry @JMcCurryCLE
A video just shown on Tailgate 19 from Friday night/Saturday morning around 1:30 am of #Browns QB DeShone Kizer partying at a Cleveland bar
8:04 AM - Oct 22, 2017
17 17 Replies 22 22 Retweets 16 16 likes

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/deshone_kizers_late_night_out.html

Mr. Pluto, who is to blame for that? The coaching staff or the FO?

I see you question and get on Hue and the coaching staff in this article, but nothing about the FO and their decisions on qbs.

You predicted 7 wins for the Browns. Why?

We don't have a qb. We don't have good WRs. Our TEs are inexperienced. We cut or traded our depth on the OL. We let our only decent WR walk. We cut our best corner. We didn't address the FS position and brought in yet another SS.

Sorry man, I think you are off base.

Oh brother....

Hue wants to win a game because he knows that a coach who is sitting at 1-23 at the bye of his 2nd season gets fired.

Sounds like we have no clue what to do there. Kessler comes in the third is all I need to read from that article. Kizer must've been horrible again, and I don't see how Hue could start him again if that's the case and benched, again, and etc.

I will say reading this is a lot better when I haven't see the game lol.

I don't think Haslam would sign off on just firing Hue. I think Hue, Sashi, and Depo are a package deal. If one goes, they all go.

Could be. Not saying it isn't. It usually starts with the head coach. He's the one making goofy in game decisions.

Vers,
I agree with everything you just said. If SOMEONE in Cleveland media had the guts to address that directly to the FO, I would pass out. Also, look how the screwed up the QB search with the QBs they did not pursue. And no WRs after drafting 20 mid-low round the year before, just mind-boggling.

Then next year, we will hear about all the cap space Cleveland has.

I've been disappointed in Hue, but he's been dealt a crappy hand. You simply can't win in the NFL without a QB. The Browns do not have a QB. Your only hope is that you can out coach the other team, and that's not Hue's thing. He's not going to out coach anyone. He's made that clear by readily admitting to giving his players graduate level work as freshman and sophomores. So I think what the organization is banking on is that Hue will be the coach they hope he can be when he gets the talent.

But having no QB essentially means you enter every game with a less than 10% chance of winning.

Goofy in-game decisions?

Like the one the Steelers made at the end of the half. They run the ball w/about 12 seconds left at the end of the half. They get tackled and instead of calling a TO at either 7 or 8 seconds so they can run another play, they let it run down and are forced to kick the FG. The announcers were amazed by how "goofy" it was and Ben gave Tomlin an earful.

The funny thing is that the Steelers are now up on the Bengals 26 to 14 in the 4th quarter.

All coaches do "goofy things." But not all coaches face the talent and lack of experience thing that Hue faces.

We're going to do it again. <<sigh>>

I don't like it amymore than you do, but it is what it is...and it may not happen. Let's see how it plays out.

I wish it was different, but it isn't.

Firing Hue will not fix anything, peen.

We gotta give this time.

I don't know.

I just don't know. If we keep him I won't be upset. If we can him, I won't be upset. I can understand either direction.

I don't think Hue Jackson should be fired, but it's hard to talk yourself into keeping a coach with that record.

this was my first thought.

I agree totally. I don't want him fired, but find it hard to find reasons why he shouldn't.

I mean, how many coaches go 1-22 and keep their job as head coach?

seven weeks ago, I didn't think things would be this bad. In late October

Much like benching Kizer isn’t fixing anything yet Hue continues to do it.

So think of it as a new Browns tradition. Knee-jerk, it’s not just an adjective any longer.

I don't think any of us saw this headed our way.

We have had what most thougt as some winnable games. We can bicker on the number, but not many expected to be 0-7.

The wheels are coming off. That's two weeks in a row that players have disrespected Hue and the Browns organization and have put themselves above the team.

Hue is desperate for a win and playing musical QBs for the second year in a row. Based on the decision making, the pressure to win is clearly weighing on him.

The thought of this FO drafting next year and trying to find us our QB leaves me hopeless.

Other than consistency as "letting the plan play out" there are little redeeming tangible qualities in which to hang our hats with this regime.

Sadly, I'll be shocked if Haslam doesn't light the dynamite.

Nobody can survive a 1-31 or 2-32 record.

I see this spiraling out of control before too long. Good grief.

I think most knew it was going to be bad, maybe even close to this bad. Lots of 3-13 type predictions. The problem is even 3-13 seems like a stretch now. The NFL is a very simple formula. In order to win, in order to even have a chance to win, you have to have a QB.

So many FOs have passed through here and have failed to deliver on that.

I really liked Hue's presser today, at least the parts I could watch (for some reason it wouldn't buffer completely). I think he's getting close to that "I don't care if they fire me" point. He was peeved but not overly emotional. Matter of fact. Got a little defensive when asked about Kizer's confidence, but there didn't seem to be a lot of coach speak. He knows things are bad and that the Browns basically have no hope to win games. He's taking on the "it is what it is" mentality right now. Which is really all he's got left. I commend him for not sugar coating it anymore.