DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Cleveland Browns' Hue Jackson be a coach in name only? Bill Livingston

Honestly PeteyD that's what frustrates me the most.. Everything seems to be aligning in place... Then the reality of knowing who is going to Coach all of this to see it through is kind of scary....

1-31 is what it is..simple ..black and white.. 1-31 it's not promising at all... putting aside how I feel you feel or how others feel about Hue.. the fact is...1-31

I'm excited about how Dorsey is putting things together..it's that 1-31 that makes me worry..

Can Hue win with what Dorsey is doing..I don't know yet..if he does it will be great and enjoyable..and I will gladly start to support him... But until then...and only then... I will keep the way I feel about him the same... No agenda here just plain ol how i feel..feelings.

I didn't think his clock management and Challenges were good.

His play calling especially in the Red Zone were lacking and then you have him throwing players coaches under the bus not good leadership.

I believe he was sorta pushed into the new OC I don't think if Hue had his way Todd would be here, then willing to give a second and third for AJ he did similar in Oakland giving 2 firsts for Palmer was it? He was an OK OC in Cincy but lacking in HC in his two stints 9-39 is it?

I sure as heck hope not!

Look, last season, I wanted Hue gone for anybody else, but it's Haslems' decision, Hue didn't get fired.

As long as he "is" the coach, then you need to let him 'be' the coach.
And he's got to have "some" say, and at least input, and he's got to be on board with what's going on in the organization.
If a team had a coach only as a puppet or figurehead and just kept him out of the loop and muddied the waters of what really is the structure of what's going on and who does what,
then that team would be doing something out of the ordinary, to say the least. (indefensible, unorthodox, crazy, insane, out of their minds)

So I hope not.

I'm not so sure that I agree with that statement. I will admit that with the hiring of Haley, Hue's role will be lessened thus his exposure (media) as well...

Oh, I don't want to get into an argument with folks on the board.

That's not my deal. l just didn't like the article. It pissed me off when I read it. As others have felt, "What's the point?"

An article like this should have been written when Hue was given the vote of confidence after the season was over. At this point, Hue's the coach.

We wanted him to hire an Offensive Coordinator, he got a really good one. And that seems to be used against him, as he's a lame duck.

QB, Livingston assumed that all he wanted was AJ McCaron. There was a ton of speculation last year (before the season, before Tyrod's option was picked up/contract restructured or whatever) that we wanted Tyrod Taylor, and he wasn't available. I mean, we were all talking about it. But now it's, "Hue wanted AJ. Dorsey said he doesn't care, so he got Tyrod". How does anyone know that Tyrod wasn't high on Hue's list too?

I just, this article sucked. It seemed like a, "Here's why our coach sucks. He won't be doing anything. He has no power" article. Which seems ridiculous. And I don't get the point.

I wish I never read it. The article brought nothing good to the table.

Just my opinion of course. People can read what they want, and he can write what he wants. I just thought it was crappy and lame. Especially since Hue is going to be the coach next year. I prefer the positive thought. I've got plenty of time next year to want to fire Hue when we start sucking. I don't need that in my life right now. November through December is already enough for the year, lol

I agree w Pete. It's the eve of April, the Draft is this month.. and that is the most optimistic day of the year to be a Browns fan. I'm ready for good news, Tabby's optimism.. a new hope..

I'm not sure I see the point to Livingston right now.

Oh come on, Saint..... I thought livingston's piece was close to a hatchet job, but I see no reason that hue's future as our HC shouldn't be debated whenever people want to talk about it.

If it spoils anyone's giddiness, they need to grow thicker skin. And a pair.

Great Points!

I haven't heard what positive things Hue has done the past 2 seasons other than motivation.

Do you think he was good at clock management?

Do you think he was good at Challenges?

Do you think he was good at developing QBs?

Do you think his play calling was good?

Do you think his throwing players coaches under the bus was good leadership?

Well I'd like to get a coupla games into the season first thats all

So why did you open the thread? Just to complain?

So you don't disagree with the authors points you just want positive posts, problem I couldn't find any about Hue.

Hue is a good coach, even though his record as HC is lacking. Players like him, and play hard for him. He has been a good coach for quite a while.

Besides a serious lack of experience and talent to work with, his team played hard. Slackers stayed on the bench. Trying to run the whole team, and run the offense with very little experience on the field was too much for him. I think he knows that too.

With good coordinators, Hue should be a good HC. Without having to run the offense, I believe he can focus more on the game itself in total. Having to spend time during the game trying to get a rookie QB ready for the next series, IMO, took his focus away from the big picture.

I expect him to succeed as the "manager" of the team. The thing a HC should be.

What parts of game management do you feel he excelled at other than motivator?

I think Dorsey figured out that he can't work with him and can't fire him, so he'll work around him.

Haley's running the offense with his own playbook and will be calling the plays. GW already had full charge of the defense. AJ isn't in the QB room. Hue didn't get the OC that he wanted.

I think the only thing left is the quiet announcement (probably in a preseason game) that someone in the booth will be calling down the red flag challenges from the booth.

That's the last piece of insurance Dorsey needs to make sure things don't get all Hued up.

I still think if we start off slow, Hue's going to get the ax, but no matter who we make the interim HC, we won't skip a beat.

If Hue can pull off a few early wins, he'll get a few rah-rahs from what was built around him.

Everyone wants to criticize Hue for not winning when the team was stripped to the studs and the best player on the offense was the Left Tackle. Everything is situational, remember the "Best Head Coach in Football" could not win in Cleveland after Model announced the move. Wonder why? Couldn't motivate ? Poor Strategy ? Poor Clock management ?

Give me a break. You need players. Ron Turcotte couldn't win with Secretariat if he's had to carry the horse instead of the horse carrying him.

I am not saying he did good at it last year, that was my point. His focus needs to be on the game at all times. Trying to be the HC and also running the offense with very little talent, let alone not a decent QB on the roster, took his focus away from the game. I believe that if he can focus on the field at all times, he will make better judgements.

This is just how I see it, you don't have to agree, it is just a feeling I have.

Who's idea was it to be HC/OC? Shurmur did it with Weedon and Trent and won games he was HC/OC wasn't he?

Honestly, most of those things I thought went pretty poorly.

A lot of times I thought he had too much on his plate. It's of the reasons i'm happy we got Todd Haley in here.

I don't remember him throwing coaches under the bus. I think in terms of players he might have a little, maybe Deshone, beyond that I don't remember that well either.


As I said, I expected him to be fired (who keeps their job after going 0-16), and while I wasn't for firing him, I wasn't for keeping him.

Hue is here though. And I really hope that things are better this season. That the restructuring is good. That many of the things you mentioned is better.

And we did rid ourselves of Teflon Tabor, so that's good. That's been a real long-time coming.


Anyway, my point still stands. This article should have been written at the end of the season or right after we kept Hue. It's April. This is after Free Agency and right before the Draft. I desperately want this coaching regime to work out. I like our coordinators. The players seem to like Hue and play hard for him. I'm excited about Dorsey. I want this to work.

And this article seems to be written at the wrong time IMO. It's late. There's nothing to accomplish. I can start thinking about firing Hue Jackson when we're 2-9 or something in November. Not in April. Because, no matter what, he's gonna be around next season.

So, yeah, I don't care for this article. It's not my cup of tea at all. I don't see the point, and it just seemed like an attack job for no reason. Right now is not the time for that. Ownership is giving him another chance, it's been 3 months since Black Monday. Time to move on

What does this have to do with Shurmur? He sucked. This is my opinion, said you didn't have to agree. But if you feel you have to be right, have at it.

Yet he still had a better record than Hue with Cleveland!

That's nice, because I did express my opinion and participated in the debate in a reasonable polite manner, I get told to grow a pair. And you know what you can do right?

He had a better team too.

Weeden and Richarson?

What can I do? Please elaborate.

For the record I think Hue was cast into a hopeless situation that he handled poorly.

If he and those that believe he is a good coach (hand raised) want to see this kind of talk go away he needs to win some games, I think he gets that.

Whether you agree with the criticism or not it comes with the job and I think Hue knows that.

I like that they brought in Haley having better players and a staff made up of top notch coaches can only help, and I think Hue will keep the locker room and team focused on winning.

Better days are ahead I feel real comfortable saying that and as low as expectation were the last couple of years and as shocked as many people were with the lack of results I think they will be equally shocked at the turn around this year.

Buckle up this is going to be a fun season for a change. At this point I believe thats all that matters.

Hotspur Haslam? LOL

Livingston sure got out of the bed on the wrong side didn't he.

There certainly can be no more excuses. Two top coordinators, a dominant D, skill players that include Gordon, Landry, Hyde, Duke, & Njoku, a playoff calibre QB, and an influx of draft talent should be enough to win a fair share of games. It's time to stop looking at this team as "the Browns" and start looking at it as a team with enough talent to beat its opponents. Hue needs to deliver.

I agree 1000%.

I honestly believe that will be the case though. I think that fan expectations were way to high last year although it's hard not to expect more then zero wins. hahaha

We are about to arrive, and we still face some of the things that year over year hold us back, that being a roster/starters in flux. We continue to suffer due to playing time together that turn over in roster is the only reason I don't think we make the playoffs this year...

My hope is that we struggle to start and as we gain time playing together and clean some things up by seasons end we are a dominate team....

Will see soon enough !!

I am actually enthusiastic for the Browns prospects this year too.

A real change is coming guys are going to need time together and the coaches are going to have to see where everyone fits best. But we have the pieces for a change now its just a matter of putting it together.

I expect early struggles with fans jumping ship early and praising the end result.

As you said if not Hue is history but I feel confident will see huge improvements from the start. Close loses will turn into close wins and close wins into blowouts as the season goes on.

I really expect to see a pretty powerful team.

No real reason we can't be playing meaningful games in late Nov and Dec. I mean games that have playoff implications for us.

The past 2 years we have been out of the hunt by mid October.

just wondering... you think tomlin a good coach?

Who was the OC and DC when Tomlin got there?

Google it, for craps sake.

Peen, this team is going to need a bit of time for the coaches and players to sort out who fits where and then they need time together.

So while I agree with you that this team has the makings of championship material I wouldn't be looking for immediate gratification. Not that that can't happen I just think its pretty unlikely. If that were to happen early it would mean the defense was dominate, the offense will need time I believe.

Will see but I am very optimistic this time its more then just fan enthusiasm these dawgs are going to have teeth.

Caution fun season to come.

Teams turn around in 1 year all the time.

I am not saying we have a good chance to make the playoffs. I am not even expecting it. I am simply saying we should be in the running later in the season, unlike the past several under various coaches where we are out of it as September turns to October.

I don't think it unrealistic to go 8-8 or 9-7. Maybe 7-9 is good enough depending on how a few games go "breaks" wise. Keep the losses to single digit.

Great post.

Hue was in a nearly hopeless situation. Does he need to make improvements? Heck yes he does. There was definitely too much on his plate. If delegating duties the way they should be, rather than expecting him to be some czar on a team with little talent makes him "a coach in name only" - so be it.

It's no different than calling Alex Smith a "game manager". Game manager just signed a $94 million contract. Hue's willing to accept a new role, with a more narrow scope, rather than walking away and blaming it all on "brown"... He's accepted all criticism as his own, and owns up to his mistakes, he deserves a fair shot at proving himself. I'm behind Hue 100%.

Do you disagree with the article or do you disagree with the timing of the article? I did not know what you meant to convey with this answer.

A big problem Hue has is himself. He has a new QB who took a team with arguably worse talent, at best equal talent to the Browns, to the playoffs. The expectations are raised. He has two more 1st round picks. He cannot continue to get his players to under perform year in and year out. Hue Jackson has a problem of getting out of the way and letting things develop. He cannot micromanage the offense any further.

Livingston is the resident PD cranky old man. Just about all of his columns that I've read can be summed up as a picture of him shaking his fist.

Sure, you can use the accuracy argument, but then why bother reading the PD when you can just read posts from the group that always thinks the sky is falling? I don't see all that much of a difference, except one is (allegedly) a professional.