DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Cleveland Browns' Hue Jackson be a coach in name only? Bill Livingston

When it's mentioned that we're 1-31 in regards to Sashi, the common response is he tore the team down, we're supposed to be bad.

When 1-31 is mentioned in regards to Hue the response is Hue is terrible and needs to go.


I don't know if Hue is the one. But given Sashi gave the guy no talent, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for right now. Shanahan was winless until he got a QB. Let's see what Hue can do with what Dorsey gives him.

Most of the people on here who are/have-been criticizing Hue have gone into waaaaaaaay more detail than just his awful W/L record. I'm not going to re-hash it here, but his body of work - on and off the field/game - leaves much to be desired. He needs to get better quickly.

I'd say both.

I don't like the headline of the article, because, he is the head coach. The responsibility of that falls on his shoulders.

He hired Todd Haley (Which i think is a great hire), and Haley will be calling the offensive plays. Just like he did in Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Arizona. Haley's an experienced playcaller and he's had success.

His responsibility is coaching the whole team, just because he delegated some duties, doesn't take away from his responsibility as to how the coaching of the actual team happens. I mean, this is Management 101.

If he doesn't like the way the plays are being called, he can take them back. He can even call the plays of the defense if he wants.

That's what being a head coach is. This isn't some system where Hue is a figurehead. The structure is, the assistant coaches work for him.



And how do we know that Tyrod Taylor isn't Hue's guy? I mean, there was speculation that we wanted Tyrod before the season started last year, it's just that the Bills wanted to pick up his option/pay that big salary.


There's a lot of speculation here. Mike Silver always said that Hue went and said the trust me thing about Cody, to give a vote of confidence to DePodesta and Sashi, not because he hand selected Cody as his guy (it was a mistake either way).



But more-so, the timing of the article pisses me off. Why a hack job now? Why not when the season ended? Not when free agency and the draft is happening. There's just so many better things to discuss. Hue's the coach of 2018, it is what it is. Reactions to that should have been written in January. Not March.

I just am not a fan of it at all

Hue IS a coach in name only until he starts winning and we improve week over week. Many of the too many losses are much too much of more of the same. We didn't eliminate chronic problems and he didn't "heal himself" much if at all.

Win.

Is Hue the Pied Piper? The vid is funny.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-j...g-to-reference/

lol. He's the Head Coach until he gives up the responsibility of overseeing the coaching operation of the Cleveland Browns Football Team.


Win or lose. That's what he's paid to do. And if we fire him, without cause, he'll be the ex-Head Coach of The Cleveland Browns.


Like it or not, Hue Jackson is the Head Coach. Not in name only. He is the Head Coach. He hires his staff. He's in charge of his staff. And he takes on the responsibilities that go with that position.

So when things go bad on offense or defense, it's up for him to explain it. The buck stops with him. That's the job of the Head Coach.


There is no "In-Name Only".

I mean, he doesn't even work under John Dorsey. He works under Jimmy Haslam alone. So, if Hue Jackson, was actually the Head Coach (In Name Only), who is the true head coach?

I'm pretty sure Hue is the Snide Sniper.

Here's the bottom line. Most everyone said that Hue needed to hire an OC so he could strictly be a HC. That he was taking on too much trying to be the HC and the OC.

Hue did exactly what most everyone said he should do. Now that he's done that? This is the type of thing we hear. It's a situation that no matter what Hue does we're going to hear this BS.

When is Hue in the Lake day?

I agree with what you say for normal coaching on clubs with wins. But right now I think they are divvying up what he was marginal at doing and some other folks are making that decision with him and evaluating for him. But is it all him always? I think he got some help (or more leash) to help game performance and draft. He is the PR engine. Hope whatever is done helps.

No doubt. But Hue earned it. I think the article was an unnecessary hack job and the timing is ridiculous. I'm not fazed by it at all tho. Time will tell.

I am pulling for the guy because he is the coach of the Browns, but to be honest, I don't like the guy at all, but if we win, I hope he makes the HOF. Nothing says I have to like him.



If we win, you won't hear me complaining. For me it is now about losses. Hue can't have a double digit loss season next year. If we win 7 games, he is safe as far as I am concerned. Build on that the next year.

Ok....so why don't I like Hue?

I think Hue is out for Hue.

I go to games with my youngest son who is 34 now. He likes to stand by the tunnel so I sometimes go down there with him. My son said Hue always comes over...and he doesn't like that. It seems Hue likes the spotlight. He said to me "Do you think Belicheck comes over for "selfies" before a game? I agreed, he doesn't.

I am thrilled we have Dorsey, so Vers dosn't need to remind me that Sashi is gone, but Hue did everything he could to get the guy fired. I don't like that. Never have, never will.

Not to mention he isn't a good head coach. He botches all kinds of calls, but believe me, I hope he is the coach of the Browns for a long time.


That means we aren't losing much.

If the Browns win seven games, don't get blown out/embarrassed in the others... that'll be like, on a superbowl level of happiness for me. I'd be ecstatic with that season. Hue would be, IMO, secured for the next season.

so because Hue is friendly enough to come over and say hi you guys don't like him ... I mean c'mon man. Of course if he doesn't come over then he is a stuck up snob right?

I think the point is more that we're not going to see. The Browns are running Haley's offense, and Haley will call the plays, while Gregg Williams runs the defense. The players will be picked by Dorsey.

No doubt, Hue will have influence in all regards, but it is undeniable that his influence has seen a massive decline - whether he was forced to give it up or willingly did so - and his finger prints won't be all over the success or failure of this new-look team.

With that said, it will allow Hue to focus on what he does best. Being a head coach. He's an awful co-ordinator and I don't trust him in the draft room, but the players love him and he's a well-respected motivator.

He's certainly lost favour, but less on his plate might be a blessing in disguise.

Yea, I don't know if the organization has an exact number in mind yet but I'd bet you aren't too far off.

No.

To my thinking, you hit the nail on the head. And any comparison of this coming season's record versus 2017, is like apples-to-oranges. Too many changes...

Just win and all this crap will take care of itself. What QB are we drafting? Tyrod yes, Tyrod no. Hue says what? Hue did what? Just win, thats all I want. Everything else will be okay if we are winners. Of course some will never be happy.

Like I said. He's damned if he does and damned if he don't.

The HC is in charge of everything. Everything. The offense and the defense and the special teams. There is no decline in his influence. What gives some fans the idea that there is, is because he's no longer calling the plays on game day. In fact, this is the way most teams operate, HC, OC, DC and STC. The OC, DC and ST's coaches are assistants. It's their job to carry out the game plans approved by the HC.

If the HC wants a 3/4 defense then the HC hires a DC who has experience running a 3/4 defense. A HC who has made his mark as an OC has a strong understanding of the opponent's offense. The HC is involved with the defensive game plan that takes advantage of the opponent's offensive strengths and weaknesses. He meets with the DC, and others, to develop the defensive game plan. After they discuss the opposing team the game plan is of the HC's approval. Now that they have a finalized plan it's up to the DC to carry out the specifics that will make it work.

The HC is also involved in developing the offensive game plan. He breaks down the opponent's defensive strengths and weaknesses matching that up with his own players strength and weakness. Along with the OC, he devises a game plan that creates mis-matches accordingly. The HC and OC, together, devise an offensive game plan that meets the HC's approval. With that, it's the OC's job to manage the specifics to make that plan work.

The same goes for the ST's. The HC sets the precedence while he and the STC develop the game plan to carry it out.

The HC is the HC and everyone else is assistants. Every HC has varying degrees of experience in all phases of the team. An offensive-minded HC will have more to offer his OC. A defensive-minded HC will have more to offer his DC. Regardless, the HC plays a large part in developing every game plan. The game plans for all phases of the team, is approved by the HC.

A HC cannot and will not simply leave everything up to his coordinators with himself not knowing what's going on. There needs be no surprises on game day. If, for instance, his OC turns in a game plan that he agrees with then that's what they go with. If the HC wants changes then there will be changes. The HC is in charge of everything. His coordinators are assistants.

In a nutshell, the HC is involved in every aspect of every phase on the game plan. Once the game plan is decided and approved then the coordinators make the calls on game day. Occasionally the HC will override certain calls during the game. He has that right. He is the HC. Everybody else is assistants to do what he wants.

Hue Jackson got the HC gig based primarily on his offensive experience. He has been a proven successful OC with a great deal of experience on that side of the ball. To think that since Haley is now the OC that the HC has no say in the offense is faulty, misinformed logic. Some fans will take comfort that it is the way, that Hue has been relieved of offensive duties, but it is not that way at all.

The main advantage of having hired Haley as the OC is that now Hue has another highly experienced OC to bounce ideas off of, share opinions regarding the offensive game plan and take over the game day play calling duties. It does not remove Hue from the offense. Hue is the HC. Everybody else is assistants. They assist, they don't take over.

We are Browns fans. I remember a QB who threw 5 TDs against the Bengals, to win a total shootout, and the fans were screaming for him to be benched in favor of yet another bust QB, some guy named Brady. Unfortunately our Brady had the last name Quinn.

yea.. i remember a QB that had us 7 win 4 loss and the fans were screaming for him to be bench... think we won 4 games the next 3 years lol

Did that QB go on to win the Super Bowl?

Thank you, ddubia.

Hue will have as much influence on this team as most HCs with an OC and DC have on their respective teams.

If people want to call that diminished influence on the team, then fine... as long as they understand that this is how most teams are run (and how we've been screaming and crying for the team to be run after the first time Hue said he wouldn't have an OC).

Is that really the litmus test? I mean, he led a team to the playoffs the next year...

And? was it one of the worst showings of a QB in a playoff game? Who i he starting for today? How many teams did he play on?

well think he might have a ring... bottom line.. he won more in 1 year than his team did in the next 3 year.

So he won 6 more games than Hue did in 2 years!

yea.. and you were crying that he was playing.. just like brady quinn..

Folks (the haters for the most part ... a few non haters have been sucked into this one .. *L*) ....

Ddub ... the haters are taking us having an OC and running way way to far with it ... WAY TO FAR ... and ddub ... the other truth here is .... WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ITS LIKE IN THAT BUILDING ...

I’d be stunned if the haters arent’ being delusional here .... i mean ... listen to what their trying to sell ... there basically saying that the thief told Dorsey ... Hue’s your HC but i want him to have ZERO SAY OVER ANYTHING ... hes basically the queen of England ... or Dorsey told Hue ... sure Hue can be the HC as long as hes the penguins of Madagascar and does nothng but... “smile and wave boys, smile and wave ... ....

Listen to what the haters are saying .... he cant help pick the talent, he will have zero to do with the offense and certainly not the defense ....

Thats what their trying to sell us here ... come on bro ... as your post way more elequantly states then mine is .. u get it ...

I’m guessing those guys get along well and Hue has PLENTY OF INPUT ...

And quite frankly the minions are arguing over whose O, whose terminology were going to use ..... i could CARE LESS .... i’m Interested in what Hue, Haley and Zampese come up with SCHEMATICALLY .... actually im not interested im VERY EXCITED to see that ... we gots us some OFFENSIVE BRAIN POWER and some NEW SHINY TOYS for them to play with ... YEEEHAAA ...

IMO Hue SUCKED at in game play calling for the most p0art last year ... well now that he has HELP and ALOT LESS on his plate AND we have those new shiny toys around ... im expecting him to return to his previous form as a very good - great offensive mind .... but of course ... the haters will give Haley all the credit ....

PS. Who cares how much they hate and who they give credit to if were PRODUCING cause that usually leads to WINS!!!!!!

Huh????

No, they can be compared but it will be a complex comparison.. if we continue to suck, Hue will still get almost all of the blame, even from those who now claim he is little more than a figurehead... and if we win, it will mean that we finally have the right structure, with the right people doing the jobs they are good at, and it might also mean we have added just a little bit more talent...

I'm hoping we win... and I'm sure there will be epic battles on exactly which individual move it was that caused us to win.

just what you did.. no huh about it.

What in the heck are you talking about?

Sorry my friend, you don't know anything about what I think. I have consistently said I hope and expect we win, and think we can.

I am in no way rooting against Hue. If I was, I would be rooting against my team. I never root against the Browns.

The only thing between you and I is that I don't think Hue is a good coach.

I agree 100% Peen.
My expectations exactly.