DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Cleveland Browns' Hue Jackson be a coach in name only? Bill Livingston

Petey, I don't dislike Haley. I think he is a decent OC. I just think Hue is more innovative offensively and a better play caller. That's nothing against Haley.

I think that the whole premise of this question is camel dung.

Is Bill Belichick a Coach in name only?!

After all the same criteria applies.

Gotcha. That's fair. Hue ran a very good offense in Cincinnati.

I just felt like Hue seemed so overwhelmed last year with Play Calling/OC/HC Duties.

While, you might not like the switch to Haley's Offense, I do think it's a fairly safe gamble, as he's shown that he knows what he's doing and can run a quality NFL Offense.


It could have been much worse. I mean, the Panthers went out and got Norv Turner

It might work out better for the Browns, Petey. We just have to remember that the Steelers are the most talented offensive team in the NFL. They are also very experienced. The Browns had the worst combination of offensive talent/experience.

I know a lot of people criticized Hue for his play calling and game management last year, but I am not one of them. Those types of comments always come up when a team is struggling, but I was around football for a long, long time and I did not see the big issues w/play calling.

And the game management? LOL...........all these guys kinda brag about how they don't watch other games, yet they know our game management was worse than the other teams. Please. I am not asking you to believe me, but I want to put this out there..........our game management was not bad at all considering who we had at QB and how young and inexperienced that team was.

Were there mistakes? Yes, of course. But all teams make mistakes and Hue is a much better game manager than a lot of the guys out there.

j/c

I haven't been on the board for several months and just got back into it about the time the Kendricks deal came up. I see that I haven't missed much, LOL. It's not surprising that some conflicting factions have developed this time about Hue Jackson. I did read the first few pages of this thread to get a sense of the argument.

I'm squarely in the Hue is NOT INCOMPETENT faction. The funny thing is that I'm certain that some among those I agree with will differ with me on some other Browns topic in the not too distant future. That's just how these things go.

Context is everything. It's clear to me that the team was intentionally purged of talent over the past few seasons. Now some of that talent forced off of the roster was average and some was middling and some probably doesn't belong in the league. As a result the team was reduced to youth, inexperienced and an absence of depth. A lot of the young guys brought in are just now starting to come into their own. This is the context Hue Jackson has dealt with since coming here.

As for being a figurehead only, I don't buy that. As with most pursuits in life there is the seen and unseen. Meaning, there are many aspects of being a profession football head coach that I'm not aware of and I convict every poster here of being unaware of many critical factors of the job also. The people in the organization, players to coaches, to front office types would absolutely sense this sham and it would cause significant damage to the team. At least some of veterans we've signed would have caught wind of that type of dysfunction and just not have bothered with the Browns. I'm not getting that impression based on how the off season is developing to this point.

I don't sense that Hue has lost the trust or respect of the players and that's on a 1-31 football team. Now this is the NFL and there has to be a payoff and it has to come this year. Because of this the only sensible thing to do was to off load some of the responsibility that Hue was carrying. Bringing in Haley was 100% the right thing to do.

So this is not the time for engaging in any smoke and mirrors or Machiavellian intrigue.

Why do you keep bringing up Sashi? It's kind of scary to be honest.

Bill Belichick has more Super Bowl wins than Hue has games won.

In fairness to Hue, he did win 8 games in Oakland the year after Tom Cable did the same.

In (non) fairness to Hue, Bill Belichick nearly won more Super Bowls the last 2 seasons than Hue Jackson did regular season games.

Yeah I forgot he got FIRED from there.

The owner died and a new GM was hired who wanted to bring in his own people from what I remember.

He did get fired, but there were circumstances that add more to the point, that you forget to mention. lol

Here's an explanation
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/why_did_hue_jackson_get_fired.html

That's what I said he got Fired.

Oakland was a mess when Davis died. There was a sucking vacuum, and no one was in charge of personnel anymore. Then Campbell was injured, and they had to make a trade for a Q, and they (Hue) had to pay too much for a QB. (Palmer)

Al Davis's son hired Reggie McKenzie that off-season.

It wasn't exactly the best situation for a rookie head coach.

Further, the Raiders had 8 non-winning seasons prior to Hue, and 3 after he was fired. It wasn't like they were a powerhouse team.

lol. Well, there's a much better explanation as to the unusual circumstances for the season that Hue got fired in Oakland.

It doesn't help the point you were trying to make earlier, so that's probably why you decided not to mention it

Someone said he went 8-8 and I reply yes he got fired too...so? Really don't care what he did in Oakland, here in Cleveland he is 1-31 kinda makes the point I made since we talking about the Browns. Did you bring up Bil B. coaching time in Cleveland and explain why he was Fired?

Nope. Honestly, Bellichick was fired when I was 10 years old. The internet wasn't around then and I'm from Connecticut.

I don't remember much from that time except I liked the WR Michael Jackson and the LB Pepper Johnson. My parents were bigger fans (but they're nothing like me now), and without NFL Sunday Ticket or the Internet, it was a bit harder back then.


So, really, I don't know too much about why Billichick was fired here, although from what I heard, choosing Testaverde over Kosar was controversial with the fanbase.


All I'm saying is, you were using Hue getting fired from the Raiders as a way to demean him earlier, and it's not quite fair because the circumstances were highly unusual. I'm not making any argument about Bill B and why he got fired in Cleveland. That's all.


EDIT: But there's certainly a point to bring up 1-31. I was very surprised he was kept (although happy). I didn't think there was a chance that a guy who just went 0-16 with the previous season being 1-15, saved by a blocked field goal by Jamie Meder in the second to last game, and not getting fired.

No all I said he was fired as someone else brought the Raiders into the conversation. I was talking about his time in Cleveland. So you're once again wrong. Hue did enough to demean himself he didn't need anyone's else help to do that.

tab I agree that his teams never gave up on him. I also think he's a players coach and players enjoy playing for him. That's huge for any football team but more important in the NFL with so many diva players.

I don't think his game plans were very good the last two seasons. We didn't adapt well to what other teams showed us. We always started very slow and never built momentum. He was also horrible in two minute offense and throwing the red flags.

We were in a lot of games last year because he let GW control the defense and the defense kept us in games.

Want to buy a former NFL coach's Raleigh home? The price just dropped.

By Ben Graham – Staff Writer, Triangle Business Journal
Jun 25, 2018, 11:08am EDT Updated Jun 25, 2018, 1:47pm

Former NFL coach and N.C. State University graduate Bill Cowher is trying to sell his Raleigh mansion and has already dropped the asking price from $2.39 million to just under $2 million.

The 6,480-square-foot home sits on less than half an acre on Briar Patch Lane in north Raleigh and backs up to the Oaks at North Ridge Country Club golf course, according to county records.

Cowher bought the property in 2007 and built the home, paying $1.065 million. That was the same year he retired from the NFL after 15 seasons as the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The four-bedroom, six-bathroom home is outfitted with a four-car garage, a garden veranda and a dog spa, among other luxury features. The tax value of the home is $1.819 million.
__________________________________________

Just sayin'...

Sounds nice but still way above my pay over a $2M mansion.

LOL

1) Which good QB has he coached(Flaco???? Dalton???... actually most of his QB's improved production after HUE stopped being the QB coach or O assistant

2)His game plans were 4th grader horrid... 66% passing...even against the best pass D in the league, and against the worst run D...

And the 2/3 plays being passes were not determined by the score, because he started and ended games like this.

Letting rookie QB's audible a QB sneak, etc,not protecting the left side of a rookie QB near our goal line.Letting the idiot D coordinator all blitz near the end of the half where there was nothing to gain, except letting other teams score and put the game out of reach..

What to say about the supreme idiotic notion of a burning time D developed and approved by GW and Hue... Dumb & Dumber

The list goes on and on... that's why we ended 1-31 in 2 seasons... He's the worst HC in the NFL history... that should say something about his abilites.

And he doesn't even have the tank the season for the picks excuse, because nobody would tank a season just to pick Mayfield ...

Actually? LOL

Actually, I am going to ask for a link.

Well, there might be some proof in his comment since it's already been established that Hue is the worst coach in the history of the NFL. lol

No doubt he has a short leash, but the past is the past. He is the coach today, so forward is the only way to look at this point.

I am very hopeful that him not being head coach, offensive coordinator, and QB coach will deliver results. Way more than anybody can do and be good at any.

If the Browns would just start winning some games this would be a lot easier.

I know I'm going to get ripped for this, but here goes.

Some of Hue's play calling, time management, and red flag decisions last year were so head-scratchingly bad, that I have to recognize the possibility they were intentional attempts to lose.

If an organization wants to lose, they absolutely can't ask the players to lose, especially on a very young team. They have to do it in such a way that they don't lose the clubhouse. The team has to lose without the players realizing they're trying to lose. Losing 31 of 32 games is harder to do then actually winning a few by accident. The front office can make player decisions like moving good players with experience, and bringing in big name vets with failing skillsets. The HC can make decisions, play calling, personnel, time management, etc to hamper the teams efficiency. But to do it without losing the players takes careful orchestration and masterful performance by those in the know.

Many folks have called for Hue's job, but what if he is still here because he has done exactly what they've asked of him, lose without losing the team?

Who would have been asking that of him?

I was sure we were in tanking mode (ala Basketball) until we drafted Baker Mayfield...

Tanking for Saquan, Rosen or Darnold would have made sense, for Mayfield there was no need to tank....

U gotta give him credit for one thing bro ...

This topic ranks right up there at the top with the Timid/Smelly when it comes to beating a dead horse ...

This horse has been beaten for over a year now ... yet dude FOUND A NEW ANGLE ... not an easy task ...

I feel the trade for A.J. Macaron was a desperate attempt by Hugh to try to win. He knew he had been screwed over at QB and any other QB he could get, excepting Dalton, would not know the offense. Holding off and not sending in paperwork on time was one last attempt by Sashi to keep the losing going and gain that # 1 draft pick. It also cost Sashi his job ... JMHO

I don't believe Hue intentionally lost any games. Rather, the teams were pretty bad, and he underperformed on top of that.

Figure Hue will lose 3-4 games more than a decent coach would with the same team. Give him a 4 win quality team, and Hue will win 0-1 games. Take a legit Super Bowl contender, and he might sneak into the playoffs.

We're somewhere in the middle there. We could challenge for a playoff spot with the right coach. Based on that, I'll say the Browns win about 5 games this year.

What is going on w/the posts today?

And here I thought the old math teacher would appreciate my arithmetic-based model of number of Hue Jackson wins.

LOL......Nice comeback.

Some people have concerns.


You know I am not a big Hue fan, but it's a new season, Hue is the coach, so my attitude is to take it from there.


I want the Browns to do well, thus, I want Hue to do well.


I agree that at this point there is nothing good about complaining about Hue. This is his season. I hope we win 7 games, and think we should and can.


I do understand your points, and I am not putting you down here, but it's not my fault here that we have only won one game since Hue has been the coach.


Anyway, here is to winning some games!!

Agreed. To me it's a new season and a fresh start. Hue has a lot of new players with, at least on paper, more talent. Plus we now have a very capable OC which means Hue can concentrate on his HC duties. Things should be much better. We can hope!

Win some? Hell I wanna whack the squealers at the home opener and start a new era!