DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Baker Not ready to compete with Tyrod

Lol! I did? News to me. And people say I make up stuff... yikes.

Ok.

Impulsive actions and impulsive control issues are not the same thing in my mind.

Do you like to drink beer? A well-aged scotch? A martini? Lots of people do and I wouldn't necessarily consider them to have alcohol consumption issues. Now if you drink to the point that it interferes with success in your life, for instance you're late for work, or can't even make it to work, you miss family functions or your son's basketball game, then yeah maybe now you have alcohol consumption issues.

Similarly, if baker's actions net a 15 yd penalty or he gets suspended, and he's constantly affecting the teams ability to win, then yeah maybe he has some sort of issue. But as far as I know, all these "impulsive control issues" he's had (the flag plant, the head throw, the crotch grab, the cop chase incident) have netted mayfield just a single quarter suspension. Oklahoma still won the game although a 1 quarter suspension could be devastating in certain situations.

Also, my guess is that at some point baker will do something someone will classify as an impulsive control issue. If it heeds our chances to win the game, yeah maybe it's something that's needs addressed and he has a problem. And I know the NFL is far less lenient than the NCAA, but for the life of me I don't understand why people wish to take something that wasn't an issue in college and make it an issue in the NFL before he has taken a snap.

Eh, people mature at different rates. His actions are certainly problematic. And he has problematic behavior.

The next question is if someone got to him and told him that his behavior is unacceptable. And has taken that information to heart.

In the interviews I've seen. It certainly feels like it. I don't see the Manziel throwing up the money sign on every other play from him.

Mayfield is here now, and putting in the work. He has done nothing distracting or childish. IMO, this kid is going to make fools of people who think he is another Manzeil, or a "me first" personality.

Why some won't let go of his past "immature" behavior amazes me. He is a kid, he did some stupid things at college. He is a fierce competitor, and very excitable, I don't see how that is going to ruin his career. You have to have a fire in your belly to become the best. He may never achieve being the best, but I don't he ever quits trying.

Until he does something stupid as a Brown, his past means nothing to me, except for his drive to succeed. He has possessed the drive thru out his college career, if he stays on the course he set, I think he will be successful.

The only problem with your post is that I haven't seen anyone say anything close to what you've accused them of saying. lol

Why do three people like this post? Seriously?

You serious, read any thread here with Mayfield in it. They may not use the same words, but it is evident people think he is an ass and will fail.

I think there are people who think he is an ass. I'm one of them. However, I don't think a lot of people are saying he will fail. I know that I haven't said that. I think he has some question marks, just like every other qb who played in systems similar to his. I think he is short and slow and both add to the question marks. However, he was very productive and the Browns thought highly of him, thus he might end up being GREAT!!!

With all of that said, have you not read the posts from guys like device, tab, etc who act like he is the greatest? Generational QB claims. Please. No one of any significance was making those claims before the draft despite what device says [and those who like his false posts.]

I want to play fair. There are people over reacting on both sides, but the worst violations of the truth are coming from the side who are his supporters.

Except I never said anyone of significance was making claims that baker mayfield was a generational QB. And I don't make false posts like the one you just made.

You do realize I can quote your previous posts, right? But, I think I'm on to your game. The words won't match-up exactly, thus you will say I am "making things up." LOL

Perfect.

Go ahead and quote what I said and quote what you said as well.

Because your finger-pointing and oddly overblown accusations get old very quickly...especially given the ridiculous non-football posts you throw out there and your generational ability to be the 'pot-calling-the-kettle-black'.

The mere fact that you GAS enough to actually check who-likes-what is pitiful...doubling down by posting/complaining about it is pathetic.

You asked...I answered.

The guy was spreading false information. I asked him to provide links. He turns around and calls me a liar and you "like" his post.

Awesome!

Those things have only occurred in your mind. I've never read where he called you a liar. He really likes Baker...you are skeptical about Baker...you BOTH have legit reasons for your opinions. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Your constant request for "links" is also part of why I liked his post. Who cares what some talking head thinks about Baker? Their opinion is no better than devicedawg's opinion. Not to mention that YOU probably know more about football than 80% of the clowns whose link you want to see. Shoot, I'd rather read your football thoughts than same from those talking head clowns in a link. It's just exhausting reading through the non-football crap that you get so hung-up on...as if someone is assaulting you personally because they have a different opinion. You and I have had our share of dust-ups...but I realize that you know considerably more about football than I do...it's not really even close with some of the details you see and understand that I do not. I learn when you get into football commentary - even when I disagree. But your perceptions outside of football are sometimes unhinged.

Tell me where I am spreading false information and if I am, I'll leave.

You may find that on a rare occasion, but very rare. I saw the kid lose his cool and do a few stupid things. But when you're young you tend to do some stupid things. It may very well be that as he matures this will not be an issue. It may also be that it's simply a part of his character and it will continue. Nobody on either side of the debate can say with any certainty which way that will go.

I do see a lot of people who have some questions about Mayfield. I'm in that crowd. I will wait for some evidence as to how he adapts to the NFL game before I either give him unjust praise or unjust criticism. Let's just say I'm not one to write blank checks. A lot of great college QB's have never made the transition well. A lot of them have. But anyone trying to make any defining prediction either way on Baker are either undervaluing his talent or overestimating his talent because the college game today simply doesn't supply you with the information to make such a determination.

In all fairness, the title of this article and the slant it was written in isn't what I believe to be accurate either. It's certainly not written in an objective manner IMO

That's the thing about our society today. Everyone thinks they have to have a side in every debate and go to the extreme one way or the other. There doesn't seem to be much objectivity in either direction. The fact is there are legitimate strong suits and questions with Baker. Just like any other QB we may have drafted. Only time will tell.

Can't wait to see him on the field so I can see where his brain is.

This response is to you and WSU.

First of all, I don't want you to leave. I simply like to see the correct information being posted. Opinions are fine. For example, you two think Baker is a stud and I have questions about his game. I don't begrudge your opinions. Hell, you both could be completely right.

My issue was w/a few statements. I am not going to take the time to find the "exact" quotes. Instead, I will paraphrase. That does not make me a person who is "spreading false information." In other words, a liar.

There were not articles before the draft that called Baker a generational qb. I actually searched it before I asked for the links because I didn't remember any. There was one article after the draft that said that there was a model out there by the Browns that said Baker was a generational guy. That's it.

There are articles out there about Baker's lack of impulse control. They might not use those words, but like Diam said, grabbing your crotch, planting a flag, throwing a ball at an opponent, running from the cops, etc are not moves that are desirable or planned out in advance.

I believe this all started when I was trying to talk football and said something about Baker hasn't been asked to read defenses, change formations, and call audibles under center very much. I added that he hasn't been asked to read post-snap coverages. Those aren't insults. They're the truth. Well, device said he has already done those things.

I want to add that when rasta said that Baker was the opposite of smart or something like that, I looked up an article to show he is smart and mentioned how he interviewed well.

I am NOT knocking Baker in some one-sided attack. A lot of people who don't either really follow or know football read this board, and I think it's important to put out the truth.

I am not talking about opinions. We all have them and it makes things interesting. I'm talking about claims such as Baker not being smart or there are articles about Baker being a generational qb and that there aren't any about him having had issues w/impulse control.

I really don't see why that is such a big deal and has to lead to hostilities.

You mean, it's rather too early to make predictions about baker's career?

1. He was a winner in college
2. He has an accurate arm.
3. He seems to be very intelligent and a hard worker.
4. He is short.
5. His passion has gotten him into trouble. It also has gotten him into the NFL.
6. Reading D post-snap, or processing things fast? I can't speak to that. I don't know.


I wanted Rosen, if not then Darnold. Now that he's a Brown, I'm rooting for him but Mayfield better make it worth the pick.

Actually, I have ZERO problems w/people having opinions on Baker. I'm good w/them loving him and predicting great things. I also get those who don't think he'll be good.

My point has been consistent. We need to be honest when we say things that sound factual. I have no problem w/someone who says "I think Baker will be great." Or, "I think Baker is a generational qb." Or, "I question Baker's intelligence."

I don't like when those comments are stated as facts rather than opinions.

Nah, those are opinions.

The fact that he is 6'1", has a dark black beard, and recently got engaged are facts.

This little tid-bit from the board rules settles this issue for me, (aside--how many members on here have even read the board rules?) The following rule covers just this sort of issue:

RUMORSIf you cannot cite a source when posting information to the board, please do not post it at all. Saying that you saw something on television or heard it on the radio is not sufficient as a valid source. Rumors do not lend to valid discussion and will be removed when seen by a moderator.

For years this rule stood supreme in making this one of the best Browns Boards around. In those times you were certain that information you read on here was most likely to be highly accurate. That rule is not enforced as strictly as it was in the past thus giving way for people to state opinions-as-facts in a willy-nilly manner which only serves to water down the knowledge provided by the board.

As said, there are a lot of people who are not going to go looking to fact-check statements or even ask for a link, (a request that used to be commonplace if someone skirted this rule), so they accept what they read and sometimes it gives them a false sense of what is true and what is not. It is the way the internet has evolved and this board has suffered right along with it.

I heard that King Henry the 1st said the same thing, as did Plato.

I read the board rules after every time I get suspended

Thanks.

I know there are people who have issues w/me asking for links. However, I try to only ask for links when I am fairly certain that something being stated as a fact is not actually a fact. I ask for a link or links for a couple of reasons:

1. It's more polite than calling someone a liar.

2. I could be wrong and it is indeed a fact.

3. It gives the poster an opportunity to clarify that what was said is just their opinion and they didn't intend to say their previous statement as a fact.

I will reiterate that I believe that we have a responsibility to present information correctly because we are writing on a public forum and there are too many people who read something and then automatically conclude it was factual. I can't count the number of times people repeated one bit of misinformation as fact just because they read it on here.

Again, my stance has nothing to do w/Baker Mayfield. I disputed some positive things about him and I disputed him being dumb.

I would have NO problem if someone said: "I think Baker is going to turn out to be a generational qb." Or, "I don't think Baker is the smartest guy around." My issue is when people make such statements as if they are proven facts.

That is fair, and I appreciate it. I'm not here to start a battle and I'm with you about spreading false information...


My participation started when people said he has impulse control issues. I suppose there's a fine line here, but... And you even said no article states the exact phrasing "impulse control issues," but that it's obvious to you, diam, and others that they exist. Did he do these things? Sure. Is it an issue? No. And if you say yes, why? Because you say so? What makes it an issue? And what makes it an issue now when it wasn't an issue in college?

To my knowledge Baker has only been suspended for one quarter of action (and really not even that long) and that was team imposed. He was never suspended by the NCAA. I've never denied that he did these things, and like you admitted, no one ever talked about these things as an impulse control issue pre draft or even now. The only time I've ever read anything about impulse control issues it's been on this board by those who are upset we didn't draft the quarterback they wanted. I bring this up and I'm criticized for being in denial. I'm not in denial about something that does not exist.

My number one goal as a life long Browns fan which spans decades is to WIN! I don't care how we do it or who we do it with, who is the quarterback, head coach, or GM. I want to WIN! These "impulse control issues" have impacted Oklahoma's win column NONE! So why all of a sudden is it an issue. This would be no different than had we drafted Rosen and I ran around posting a picture of him in a dorm room hot tub with a beer and a girl saying the kid has drinking problems we need to be leery about.


I don't have a problem with people saying they don't like Baker because they don't like his actions, but the impulse control issue nonsense is just that. Nonsense. I get people want a stand up citizen as their quarterback, but there are no impulse control issues. And his actions to me suggest nothing more than Baker's passion and desire to win. An "issue" to me would mean he is impeding the team's ability to win which simply isn't the case.

That's fair. And for the record, I am not one who has ever used the words "impulse control" when describing Baker. At least to the best of my knowledge. LOL

I think we're "cool" now and can move on. And again, it was never my intent to call you a liar. I just couldn't find anything other than the post-draft report that the Browns had a model about Baker perhaps being a generational qb. And I didn't even think you were lying. I thought I perhaps misread your statement and it was an opinion rather than you stating it as a fact. I was just hoping you would clarify that, but it turned into something else.

It's tough communicating on here sometimes.

1. OU is the program with best win % in college history, so all OU QB's are winners. Colt McCoy has more wins.

2. College accuracy is for the most a product of the scheme. Colt McCoy % completion was higher

3. No he is not intelligent, he is average. Wonderlick of 25 and his academic record does not prove he is intelligent. NFL football intelligence can only be assessed in the field. Colt McCoy wonderlick score was the same - 25

4- Yes he is short - The same Hight has Colt McCoy...

5- There are many passionate QB's that don't get in trouble. IMHO he has the wrong type of passion, but it all will be immaterial,unless he struggles, then it will be another minus for him. Colt McCoy has an advantage on this one...

6- I'm with you, we don't know that. Colt McCoy was slow processing and making decisions, but we only saw that after he played in the NFL. In College he had no problems.

Sorry, but considering he info we have, unless its gutt feeling it appears that the difference between Colt McCoy and Baker Mayfield is not that big.

Still can't understand why we drafted him first.... Maybe I will be proved wrong the first time we see him play in the NFL, I sure hope so.

All-Time Winning Percentages
I have a lot of big ideas for these percentages that I am never going to be able to finish. But, for right now, you'll have to settle for the list below. It includes the winning statistics for every team currently in Division I-A. This includes all the games played throughout their history.

Rank Team Win% W L T Total
1. Michigan 0.734 883 309 36 1228 Yearly Records
2. Notre Dame 0.733 845 295 42 1182 Yearly Records
3. Oklahoma 0.717 811 304 53 1168 Yearly

and here's the link

https://www.therichest.com/sports/footba...ms-of-all-time/

To compare Baker to Colt McCoy is to compare surface similarities, at more.

Colt McCoy was a timid QB, who was afraid to attack the field until the game was lost. He was not especially accurate (not necessarily stat-wise, but play-wise) and did not throw with any sense of anticipation. He was completely unable to throw any receivers open. He was also unable to deal with anything but a soft zone, where he could easily find a receiver in the dead area(s). He struggled with reading defenses, especially post-snap. He also struggled against the blitz.

Baker is far superior in accuracy, placement, and anticipation. As for the rest, we'll see. I think that Baker will be, at least, an average QB. I preferred Darnold, because of his ability to create on the move, and his size, but he also has his challenges. However, Mayfield is not some bum. Realistically, 3 different QBs probably could have gone #1 overall, based on different factors; Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen. Some might add Allen to that list, but his lack of accuracy, placement, and anticipation completely disqualified him IMHO.

Baker is a Cleveland Brown now, so I am going to hope that he is a great QB, and I am going to root for him until he proves to be unable to be the QB.

I think you're confusing accuracy and completion %.



Height is not as important as many on this board make it out to be. Ask Brees, Taylor, Keenum, Wilson, Flutie, Tarkenton, Young, etc....



So really, based on the accurate information, the only thing really in common is their height.


And if you don't understand why we drafted him first then you're really not paying attention, are you?

Bottom line, We have the most experienced and most proven group of front office execs we have had and he is the guy they wanted out of imho 6 NFL first round talented QBs. To take this kid over the Athleticism of Lamar, the upside of Darnold and the NFL prototypical Rosen says something.
If they missed on this pick, there simply is no hope.


Love the touch, the accuracy the arm, the moxy and the poise of this kid. Georgia started getting to him. They made him look slow and small and his eyes came down but he rebounded mentally and got his team into overtime against a defense that was firing on all cylinders.


He needs to stop relying on his legs so much but I think the kid can play. Kid plays with his eyes up. He has a good arm but he doesn't put his legs into his throws much at all. I think with Haley we may see a huge increase in ball velocity on those down the field throws.


Anyway, if he can get it mentally, we have our QB.

j/c


I wanted Darnold. But I'm fully invested in Baker Mayfield because, what choice do I have otherwise? The more I watch and read about him the better I feel.





From a pure production standpoint, Mayfield has been in another class, and he has the necessary NFL tools despite questions about his height. He owns the two top PFF grades since 2014 and possesses the arm, accuracy and playmaking ability to be the best quarterback in the class. Mayfield has posted the lowest percentage of negatively graded throws in the nation for two straight years, and he led the draft class in big-time throw percentage last season, showing he was what it takes to create big plays down the field.

link to text






Mayfield can’t make tight-window throws: False

While Mayfield had the lowest percentage of tight-window throws in the class last season, he was by far the most accurate in those situations, coming in 9.0 percent better than the No. 2 quarterback, UCLA’s Josh Rosen. Mayfield has the zip to fire the ball in between zones and he has the accuracy to “throw receivers open” away from the leverage of defenders. Both are important traits for the next level, and Mayfield showed well in these difficult situations, even if they don’t show up as often as other quarterbacks in the class.

Once in a generation a team takes a short slow QB from a spread lol

No matter how anyone feels about Baker, that was funny right there.

You were talking about Colt, right?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think one should use caution when examining the stats of qbs who have played in the Big 12.

Here are some guys who put up HUGE numbers in the Big 12:

Graham Harrell
Landry Jones
Vince Young
Colt McCoy
Jason White
Scott Frost
Kliff Kingsbury
Chase Daniel
Major Appelwhite
Chris Sims
Sam Bradford
RGIII
Bryce Petty
Trevoyne Boykin
Brad Smith
Patrick Mahommes
Josh Freeman
Mason Rudlolph
Seth Doege
Zac Robinson
Josh Heupel
Blaine Gabbert
Etc, etc

It's really not an impressive list in terms of how most fared in the NFL despite their great collegiate careers.

Moral of the story is that the Big 12 doesn't play real football. And if you see Tulsa you should tell him that.

Not a impressive list, no doubt.



As I said 6-7 years ago, the NFL was going to have to change because QB's were changing.


I thought it would happen with Tebow. I was wrong.



Lets hope it happens here. Dorsey has drafted two QB's from similar systems. Maybe now is the switch?


It's a new era of QB being presented to the NFL.



It's going to happen