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I think he is a question mark as a qb. He could end up being very good, but I think the bust potential is rather high. I think he has the highest potential to succeed and it's not even close. Whether or not he'll be the best is another concern, but I think if you wanted to draft the quarterback that you felt had the best chance of surviving in the NFL for 10-15 years, Mayfield was the pick. This is why at one time I thought we might draft a Darnold or a Rosen... We felt Mayfield was going to be good, but was there another quarterback we thought might turn out to be better? I guess the answer was no.
However, I think Dorsey sees an intense competitor. A guy who can lead teammates. A guy who can overcome significant odds. A guy who has the utmost confidence in himself. I think Dorsey sees some of himself in Baker.
100% yes!
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Well ... i think one thing we can ALL AGREE on and hope for is that Your WAY WAY closer to the mark on Baker than I was with BRADY BRADY BRADY!!!! ... 
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If it was because of the IT factor, Dorsey would have never had drafted Mahomes... if any QB prospect had the IT factor in the last decade it was Deshaun Watson, yet Mahomes was the one picked by Dorsey.
Baker was never at Manziel level regarding the IT factor... that's just sweetening the pill. BM was for most the product of an efficient system, that IMHO, makes it very hard to project QB's future in the NFL.
I'm not sure how you base the IT factor. Are you just watching these guys or are you adding in aspects of their game and personality? The past 3 years my top QBs were Wentz, Mahomes, and Mayfield. To me, Mahomes certainly has IT. I recall reading that Kansas City gave all the quarterbacks in last years draft a test, of I think memory, and Mahomes was the only one who passed. Recently, I recall listening to a podcast of "experts" (guys who do this for a living) and you know what is the top trait GMs look for in a quarterback? No, not arm strength or height, but the ability to recall information. I'd say 90% of those on the podcast (maybe 6-7 experts) said recall was #1. Mahomes has IT. And I think Manziel was never at the Baker level for IT. And I LOVED me some Johnny. He's just a lamebrain.
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Well ... i think one thing we can ALL AGREE on and hope for is that Your WAY WAY closer to the mark on Baker than I was with BRADY BRADY BRADY!!!! ... I'm not predicting Hall of Fame, but I think we have a quarterback who is going to win us a Super Bowl.
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Everyone understands you tab, when you lose an argument you start throwing out insults. It is who you are and who you have been since the board started. You pretend to want to debate but as soon as you see yourself being proven wrong, you hit attack mode. So be it. Call me what you want if that's what it takes to make you feel better. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We are quick to throw QBs under the bus when the OL is statistically one of the worse with things such as holds onto the ball runs out of pocket too soon.
I watched just about every OU game and their OL was not that good in pass pro, Maybe statistically BM should get some credit for making them look good, he released the ball quickly as well as quick decisions. He bought time with his feet and always had his head up looking down field.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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This is to topic not a reply.
The draft, draft analysis, and college is all over now.
Speculation on Baker no longer counts. He is in the NFL.
Going forward he will be judged by his professional record and performance.
I for one will not make a comment on Baker until he plays in a regular season game.
For the 2018 season it is all about team and the starting quarterback Tyrod Taylor.
I just want to win games.
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Hey ... what r u doing ... Get that horse back behind the cart ... have u lost your mind trying to put the horse in front of the cart .... were browns fans ... were not used to the horse being in front of the cart ... were way more used to the cart being in front of the horse ...  ...
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I think he is a question mark as a qb. He could end up being very good, but I think the bust potential is rather high. I think he has the highest potential to succeed and it's not even close. Whether or not he'll be the best is another concern, but I think if you wanted to draft the quarterback that you felt had the best chance of surviving in the NFL for 10-15 years, Mayfield was the pick. This is why at one time I thought we might draft a Darnold or a Rosen... We felt Mayfield was going to be good, but was there another quarterback we thought might turn out to be better? I guess the answer was no.
However, I think Dorsey sees an intense competitor. A guy who can lead teammates. A guy who can overcome significant odds. A guy who has the utmost confidence in himself. I think Dorsey sees some of himself in Baker.
100% yes! BM has the highest potential to succeed, a short pocket passer QB???? Why would anyone think that? I can see that point made for Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, etc but for Baker Mayfield, why? He didn't turn around his program, OU wasn't national Champion, he's not an athletic freak, he was never a Deshaun Watson or a Vince Young gimme the ball and I'll win the game type of player. He was far from being the consensus top QB on this draft class. His qualities are so hard to figure that he was twice a walk on... Maybe he will turn out to be a great QB, and that would be the best news for us, but saying he was the QB with the highest potential????? But again, nobody thought that about Tom,but he is the GOAT...
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I watched just about every OU game and their OL was not that good in pass pro, 
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Yes. Baker has the highest potential to succeed. Link But based on his college performance, Mayfield has the best odds of any quarterback in this class of being an elite starter in the NFL, and the lowest odds of being a bust.
Last edited by devicedawg; 07/13/18 04:53 PM.
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Yes. Baker has the highest potential to succeed. Link But based on his college performance, Mayfield has the best odds of any quarterback in this class of being an elite starter in the NFL, and the lowest odds of being a bust. Can usually take these kind of statistical analyses with a grain of salt. Track record is pretty impressive though. Top QBASE Projections, 1997-2017 Player QBASE Philip Rivers 1964 Carson Palmer 1916 Donovan McNabb 1799 Baker Mayfield 1480Russell Wilson 1288 Peyton Manning 1279 Marcus Mariota 1277 Byron Leftwich 1216 Aaron Rodgers 1216 Ben Roethlisberger 1211
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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We watch sports because of the unknown.
Last year the Indians should have won the World Series. They won the first two games in a five game series.
Potential and stats do count anymore.
You know how many number one picks have tanked? Just think Courtney Brown.
Play the game first and let's talk about results after.
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Your replies to me are in green.
I also don't know where you are getting that he is making all of these post-snap reads and throwing w/anticipation. I'm not saying he won't be able to do those things, but he wasn't asked to in Oklahoma's offense. He also has only played a handful of plays under center. That's a concern.
I've watched him play and read what his coach had to say about him. Whether or not he was asked, he still did them. I think Dorsey loved the fact Mayfield learned the playbook in two days. The Oklahoma offense also ran thru Baker. It was as if he was asked to just run around and heave passes like Johnny.
Quote:
Are you sure that Baker has the second strongest arm? I haven't read where people are knocking his arm, but are you sure it's the second strongest?
Yes. And if you haven't seen the posts, they're out there. Not as many now as pre-draft because I think many realized they were wrong. Okay, I took the time to look these things up today. Here is one take: Processing
Rudolph
Rosen
Mayfield
Jackson
Darnold
Allen
Admittedly difficult to decipher what's going through the mind of a quarterback on film, in this class, Rudolph appears to possess the most speed moving from read to read. Some of those looks were seemingly predetermined pre-snap, but he made a variety of full-field reads at multiple levels, quickly scanning across the field split seconds after his initial read was covered.
Rosen is deft in this area as well on most of his snaps, yet I noticed him get "stuck" on his initial read a bit too long on a few too many plays, especially over-the-middle tosses to his tight ends. Jackson made gigantic strides in this area from 2016, and this facet of playing quarterback is the main knock I have on Mayfield. The Oklahoma scheme didn't help him here. and Arm Strength
Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Rudolph
No surprise here. Allen will have one of the NFL's strongest arms right away. Up there with Matthew Stafford and Joe Flacco.
Jackson possesses the Michael Vick-esque "flick" delivery that somehow leads to lasers being sent all over the field. The three in the middle all have underrated arms capable of fitting the ball into tight windows at the intermediate level and throwing the typical max distance in the NFL of 55 or 60 yards if need be. Benkert has a wide frame and a well-built upper body. That combination allows him to frequently throw the football at a high velocity. As for Rudolph, this is one area in which he's clearly behind his contemporaries. At times his aforementioned underthrows appear to be due to a lack of arm strength. Despite his reputation, at times, especially in the intermediate range where arm strength is needed most, Rudolph's passes arrive with plenty of zip. Here is the link: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news...know-about-qbs/Do you have any links that validate your claim and dispute this one?
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Last edited by devicedawg; 07/14/18 07:08 AM.
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The only link that remotely addresses the previous questions is that Baker did have very high ball velocity at the Combine. I'm sorry, but I can't find the "reports" that claim Baker has the second strongest arm in the draft. And your first link said these things in regards to his post-snap reads: Benefited from spread scheme that created huge passing windows to throw to
Will see increased importance on post-snap reads
Needs to improve full-field scanning
Can be thrown off rhythm by delayed blitz packages and disguised coverages
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Everyone understands you tab, when you lose an argument you start throwing out insults. It is who you are and who you have been since the board started. You pretend to want to debate but as soon as you see yourself being proven wrong, you hit attack mode. So be it. Call me what you want if that's what it takes to make you feel better. Still at it with added excuses I see. Have a nice day. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well ... i think one thing we can ALL AGREE on and hope for is that Your WAY WAY closer to the mark on Baker than I was with BRADY BRADY BRADY!!!! ... +1
Joe Thomas #73
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You are very selective with your reading.
Of course he has room for improvement, but he's not void of being able to do these things as you suggest. Rosen and Darnold will have similar growing pains.
And check the final link for second strongest arm.
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I really have no idea what you are talking about. I did mention the final link. And I am not talking about him improving. I am simply responding to a couple of comments you made that I can't find proof of.
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All you have to do it read the links and you'll see what you're looking for...
Or you could watch the game film.
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Do you really think you're fooling anyone> Whatever. you win. It's well documented that Baker has the second strongest arm in the draft and makes multiple post-snap reads while throwing w/anticipation.
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It's weird to me that you choose to ignore the truth. And I'm not sure I understand your obsession with winning an argument.
It's not about winning or losing. You asked a question. I supplied you with what you asked and you say nope, they're wrong or that you don't see it. It's as if you were just told the sky is blue and you're trying to come up with every reason possible why it's not blue while the blue sky is staring you in the face.
Its whatevs. Carry on.
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Mayfield is one of the better field-readers in this draft. He can identify favorable pre-snap coverage to throw against, he’s excellent at seeing blitzes and throwing into their vacated space, and he even anticipates the occasional throw coming open.
Strengths
-Tough and competitive
-Plays with fiery demeanor and massive chip on his shoulder
-Teammates rally around him on and off field
-In complete command of his offense and has improved with each season
-Light on his feet with quick setup in pocket
-Has good pre-snap plan
-Eyeballs and eliminates safeties to isolate man coverage on his receiver
-Quick processor from read to read
-Responds suddenly to what is there
-Pitch and catch accurate if you allow it
-Underrated arm talent
Progressions: Clearly working through full field of play with more regularity in 2017. Not afraid to work eyes off receiver and come back late. Has made layered reads in half the field both vertically and horizontally, plus capable of working across full field of play. Anticipation: Has been showing reliable anticipation throwing against zone coverage or tight man for two years. Willing to pull the trigger on targets before out of break in order to thread through open throwing windows. Austin Allen - Arkansas - 53 (left), 54 (right)
Josh Allen - Wyoming - 62 (left), 62 (right)
JT Barrett - Ohio State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Kurt Benkert - Virginia - 55 (left), 56 (right)
Sam Darnold - Southern Cal - did not throw
Danny Etling - LSU - 54 (left), 56 (right)
Luke Falk - Washington State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Riley Ferguson - Memphis - 52 (left), 54 (right)
Quinton Flowers - South Florida - 49 (left), 49 (right)
Lamar Jackson - Louisville - 49 (left), 49 (right)
Kyle Lauletta - Richmond - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Tanner Lee - Nebraska - 56 (left), 57 (right)
Chase Litton - Marshall - 53 (left), 55 (right)
Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)
Josh Rosen - UCLA - 57 (left), 59 (right)
Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Nic Shimonek - Texas Tech - 55 (left), 55 (right)
Mike White - Western Kentucky - 53 (left), 55 (right)
Logan Woodside - Toledo - 52 (left), 52 (right) Done.
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Mayfield is one of the better field-readers in this draft. He can identify favorable pre-snap coverage to throw against, he’s excellent at seeing blitzes and throwing into their vacated space, and he even anticipates the occasional throw coming open. [Quote] Strengths -Tough and competitive -Plays with fiery demeanor and massive chip on his shoulder -Teammates rally around him on and off field -In complete command of his offense and has improved with each season -Light on his feet with quick setup in pocket -Has good pre-snap plan -Eyeballs and eliminates safeties to isolate man coverage on his receiver -Quick processor from read to read -Responds suddenly to what is there -Pitch and catch accurate if you allow it -Underrated arm talent Progressions: Clearly working through full field of play with more regularity in 2017. Not afraid to work eyes off receiver and come back late. Has made layered reads in half the field both vertically and horizontally, plus capable of working across full field of play. Anticipation: Has been showing reliable anticipation throwing against zone coverage or tight man for two years. Willing to pull the trigger on targets before out of break in order to thread through open throwing windows. It's fascinating that one guy can see all of that yet another can't. If Mayfield can carry all of that to the NFL, man we've got our QB for the next 12+ years. Here's hoping.
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Seriously?
He made two false comments. I asked him too clarify. Obviously, it's turned into something else. Just like it always does.
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Except I didn't make any false comments. If anyone made false comments it was you.
And yes. You always turn things into something else.
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Why don't you 2 take this intriguing conversation private? Obviously you 2 are enjoying it, but for most of the rest of us it's getting old.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Oh, and I am sure that I am speaking for many when I say that we don't care who started it, who thinks they're right, and who thinks the other is wrong ...... it was played out long ago, and now it's just written regurgitation of the same stuff over and over again. Please stop. This kind of stuff makes the board darn near unreadable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think it wise to tell people to take a debate private just so it's a bit more convenient for you, in whatever fashion that is. If that's what they want to discuss, then so be it as long as it's within the rules. It's a public message board. You can also ignore them if you want.
Tackles are tackles.
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Oh, and I am sure that I am speaking for many when I say that we don't care who started it, who thinks they're right, and who thinks the other is wrong ...... it was played out long ago, and now it's just written regurgitation of the same stuff over and over again. Please stop. This kind of stuff makes the board darn near unreadable. I gave him multiple chances to take back his claim that Baker had the second strongest arm out there. I was very cool about it. Take a look at this: Quote:
Are you sure that Baker has the second strongest arm? I haven't read where people are knocking his arm, but are you sure it's the second strongest?
Yes. And if you haven't seen the posts, they're out there. Not as many now as pre-draft because I think many realized they were wrong. "They" as in plural, are not out there. I even posted an article that ranked the qbs arm strength. Baker was 4th. I don't like when false information is posted. It's deceiving. Somehow, it gets turned around and I am accused of posting false information. And the usual suspects "like" that lie. I get that guys like you love the homer aspect, but I think we should tell the truth. For example, if I said Baker has the weakest arm in the NFL and couldn't back up my claim, would you guys let it go? Hell no! I'm here to tell you, that when people state untruths as facts in order to deceive others, I'm going to question them on it. I start out very politely and give them a way out, but if you wanna keep on w/the facade and then accuse me of being the one making things up, I'm going to fight back. And I really don't care if you like it or not.
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And I've provided proof 3+ times now that baker has the second strongest arm this past draft and you choose to continue to deceive posters. Irony I'd say... I guess everyone can see for themselves. Austin Allen - Arkansas - 53 (left), 54 (right)
Josh Allen - Wyoming - 62 (left), 62 (right)
JT Barrett - Ohio State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Kurt Benkert - Virginia - 55 (left), 56 (right)
Sam Darnold - Southern Cal - did not throw
Danny Etling - LSU - 54 (left), 56 (right)
Luke Falk - Washington State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Riley Ferguson - Memphis - 52 (left), 54 (right)
Quinton Flowers - South Florida - 49 (left), 49 (right)
Lamar Jackson - Louisville - 49 (left), 49 (right)
Kyle Lauletta - Richmond - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Tanner Lee - Nebraska - 56 (left), 57 (right)
Chase Litton - Marshall - 53 (left), 55 (right)
Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)
Josh Rosen - UCLA - 57 (left), 59 (right)
Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - 52 (left), 52 (right)
Nic Shimonek - Texas Tech - 55 (left), 55 (right)
Mike White - Western Kentucky - 53 (left), 55 (right)
Logan Woodside - Toledo - 52 (left), 52 (right) I get you don't like baker and have questions about him but when the proof is right there before your eyes and still say its wrong its quite telling.... you can't even acknowledge it. And yet you keep telling posters I'm trying to deceive just so you can be right. That's your schtick. It's old and exhausting to play your games, but you've suckered me in good this time.
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You are posting the same stuff over and over again. We all discussed this last year w/Watson and everyone agreed that the velocity thing was bogus.
You said that there were reports [as in plural] that said Baker had the second strongest arm in the draft. I doubted that and researched it. Your claim was false! I gave you multiple chances to have an out. What do you do? You turn it around and say I am making things up.
I am going to stop this argument now, but I'm tired of guys like you making stuff up.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 07/15/18 08:28 PM.
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Hue on Mayfield's arm strength Browns coach Hue Jackson doesn’t see a problem.
“Baker definitely has NFL arm talent,” Jackson told Peter King of Sports Illustrated. “He has the passion, the ability to complete balls at all levels of the field, and he has the air about him. He exudes confidence. People will be amazed at how strong his arm is.” I can probably find articles ranking him 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th 5th, 6th etc... in arm strength. Opinions are like that and everyone on the internet has got one. What do you think of Hue's opinion on the subject, Vers?
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I agree w/Hue. I never ONCE questioned Baker's arm strength. Do a search and see.
Let me make this very clear..............I think Baker has a very good arm.
I used to complain about Cody's arm, but not Baker's. He has a "plus" arm in my book. I think his arm strength is underrated and it is not one of my concerns.
My issue was w/device stating that there were multiple reports that Baker had the second strongest arm. He and I have been around and around and believe me.........I did my research before I politely asked: "Are you sure Baker has the second strongest arm?"
I gave him a ton of outs. He could have said "in my opinion." He could have said, I read "about his velocity speed at the Combine." Etc. He did nothing but reiterate that there were reports that Baker had the second strongest arm in the draft. I knew that was false. Somehow...........as always...........it gets turned around to me "making things up." WTH did I make up?
Dude annoys me w/his false claims and then turning things around and claiming I am lying. Of course, Memphis and Vambo "like" his lies.
I am going to say this again.........Baker has a good arm. It's not even an issue as far as I can see. I think it can even improve if he improves his footwork, because he throws off his back foot too often.
I just maintain that it isn't a consensus that he has the second best arm in the draft. Most reports I have seen have them ranked like this:
Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Mayfield
Darnold
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,414 Likes: 447
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,414 Likes: 447 |
Dude, you reap what you sow.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,853 Likes: 953
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,853 Likes: 953 |
I gave him multiple chances to take back his claim that Baker had the second strongest arm out there. I was very cool about it.
Take a look at this...
I think you missed the part where he said: "... we don't care who started it, who thinks they're right, and who thinks the other is wrong ...... it was played out long ago, and now it's just written regurgitation of the same stuff over and over again. Please stop."
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
Fair enough.
That is the exact order I had the top 4 ranked btw with Allen and Jackson having absolute cannons and Rosen well above average. I had Darnold a little lower on the list.
That being said, I don't think a guy having the opinion that Baker has the 2nd biggest arm in the draft is spreading misinformation. I just think he doesn't grade QB's the same way that I do.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I yi yi yi. Defending the perp due to personalities.
I have maintained that we should tell the truth when we act like we are stating facts. Apparently, that isn't important to you guys.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Baker Not ready to compete
with Tyrod
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