DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Cleveland Browns' Hue Jackson be a coach in name only? Bill Livingston

Amen!

I know you have "concerns." LMAO You've only voiced them 2,456,342 times.

However, that isn't what I was talking about. It was his formula for winning/losing games. It didn't make any sense and wasn't verifiable at all. I also just came off of two other threads in which one said that Oklahoma's OL was very good in pass protection and another that complained how Peppers backpedaled on screen passes.

Do I really have to explain............?

It was. It also showed he has no clue what he is doing when it comes to value. Good thing he isn't a GM.

Well, I don't think it was him that submitted, or attempted to, or whatever - the supposed second and third picks... so thank goodness he's not GM and the "GM" or however you want to label Sashi is not here anymore.

I liked the thought for trading for AJ, but not for that... oh heck NO!

Seriously?

He was responding to criticism about a lack of winning. Face it, Hue was set up to fail. The man felt he had a better chance of winning with Macaran than with Kizer. He had worked with both, knew the skill set and mental toughness of both, and felt the criticism of people calling for his job when he was given nothing to work with. What would you do ??

It was probably the best move to win a couple games last year, which seems to be what everyone who is critical of Hue wanted. It probably was not the best move for building into this years team, but fans want it both ways. Either Hue had the talent to work with, and sucked. Or he did not have what he needed to win in the NFL and made the most out of a horrible situation. Given Dee Haslam's recent comments, it looks like ownership feels that Hue did not have the talent to win, so the effort was made to get him talent this year.

If the Browns come up 0 - 16 now, by all means .. fire him. Until it is seen what is done with a talented roster, the Haslams are giving him a chance to prove himself.

JMHO

Yeah, technical facts I don't think he could submit tickets and carry out a trade from an office/position standpoint. If he had that power, AJ would've been here.

Did he cry for him? Probably. Push hard for him? Probably. Said to give a 2nd and a third (ridiculous) for him? Probably. Enough that Sashi botched the trade and jeopardized it on purpose? Probably.

Who knows what happened, who did what and etc. Either way the pie is sliced is pretty dysfunctional.

What if the Browns Repeat winless, 0-16, and Still Don't fire Hue Jackson at the end of the season, but bring him back for 2019.
Will people begin to think Hue Jackson is the problem or still hold that it is everything else.

He was set up to fail and Dorsey knows it. My sig. says it all.

I’m THRILLED HUE DID IT ...

It put the final nail in Sashi’s coffin and did it in a timely fashion ... it gave us a shot at Dorsey with no other competition at the time and it gave Dorsey a 2 month head start on evaluation the players and the org. ...

GOOD JOB ON THE AJ DEAL COACH ...

Why are you asking me that question. I'm not even in on this petty argument. All I did was point out the "formula" for figuring out our win totals due to the false variables given was crazy.

Hue Jackson is not the problem with the Browns.

He's only a symptom.

Granted, Hue Jackson holds the distinction of being the losingest coach of an established team in NFL history and he should have been gone a year ago.

The problem is the Browns two owners - Dee & Jim Haslam.



This is why it's likely the Browns will have losing records every year for the rest of their existence.

I have always held on here that Ownership has been our major problem. I'm hoping that this current regime gets it right.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile ....

We may have finally had some good luck for a change ... our blind squirrel may have found him a nut ...

Not sure it could have worked out better ... Sashi did the wrecking and now someone qualified gets to do the re-building ... lets hope the qualityfed dude does a better job than the rest of the football guy GM’s we’ve had in here ... lord only knows were due ...

https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/1018881558722301952?s=21

Personal wins?

don’t think he meant anything by it, but he just says dumb stuff all the time.

He must be referring to all of those "non-scoreboard" victories of the last 2 seasons.

We had the 2nd best record in the NFL for moral victories.

Goodness.

ESPN experts believe Browns’ short-term future is bleak

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/7/18/...future-is-bleak

Still no love for Cleveland in the immediate future.

By Andrea Hangst Jul 18, 2018, 1:44pm EDT

The national NFL media has never much been optimistic about the Cleveland Browns’ short- or long-term prospects and it appears things have not changed. A trio of ESPN experts, tasked “[t]o project which NFL franchises are in the best shape for the next three seasons,” and thus to (power) rank them accordingly, have a bleak perspective of where the Browns are headed.

The numerical grades are compiled across five categories—Roster, Quarterback, Coaching, Draft and Front Office—and are on the following scale:




The good news is that the Browns came in with an overall score of 70.8; the bad news, though, is that it puts the team at 31 out of 32 (only the Miami Dolphins rank worse).

The roster was given a grade of 72.3 (rank: 27). The quarterback situation was graded a 77 (rank: 21). Coaching was the worst of the lot, with a 56.7 grade and a rank of 32. The Browns’ draft situation and prospects were the highest among the five categories, with a 76 score and a rank of 19. And finally, the front office came in with a ranking of 24th and a grade of 73.3.

Yates wrote of the decision that, “[T]here are still players among that group whom we need to ‘see it to believe it,’ such as quarterback Baker Mayfield and wide receiver Josh Gordon (again). Most pressingly, there’s a massive debate about whether the Browns have the right coach in place, with Hue Jackson guiding his team to just one win in two years.”

Riddick is also critical of the Browns’ coaching staff, wondering whether it “is good enough to take what is clearly an improved roster from a personnel standpoint and make it into a division contender, particularly as it pertains to the [quarterback] position.”

Sando was a bit more moderate, explaining there was no choice but to rank the Browns last in coaching given the 1-31 record over the last two years, but conceded the crew could be underrated particularly “with veteran assistants Todd Haley and Ken Zampese joining forces.”

Meanwhile, fellow ESPN NFL analyst Mike Clay pegged the Browns as a wild-card playoff sleeper for the 2018 season in May. Prognostication is a hallmark of the NFL offseason when all teams are 0-0 and anything remains possible. So, what say you? What are your three-year rankings and projections for the Browns based on ESPN’s five metrics?

All speculation and click-baiting. I'm not worried about the media's opinion, but thanks for posting that article, I didn't mean to slight your effort.

I don't necessarily agree with that (taken as a whole) and do believe that with the addition of Haley, we should be better off than last season. I expect the ESPN comment should provoke (or renew) interesting debate...

Why else would Vambo post it? LOL

What's wrong with debate?

that seems to be a common opinion bonefish. amazing that 11 of our 22 projected starters were acquired by a guy who knows nothing about evaluating and acquiring talent!

It's hard to fault national media for being down on Hue. 1-31 is what it is.

Tom Coughlin and Dom Capers had the Jaguars and Panthers in the conference championship games in the second seasons of those expansion teams.

Even Chris Palmer won five games in his first two seasons (99-00) with the Browns having a much less favorable expansion deal.

The 2017 Bills were widely seen as tanking last summer, and Sean McDermott got them to the playoffs. (Why couldn't we hire that guy?)

Browns' Jimmy Haslam: 'We'll see the real Hue Jackson' in 2018
Updated 2:29 PM; Posted 2:28 PM
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/07/jimmy_haslam_on_2018_well_see.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Jimmy and Dee Haslam pledged their support to Hue Jackson by firing Sashi Browns after 1-15 and 0-16 seasons, but have continued to watch their coach take heat for the mess of the past two seasons.

This year, they think fans will see there was a method to their madness.

"I think we'll see the real Hue Jackson,'' Jimmy said Saturday as the owners gave their annual training camp address. "He's got good quarterbacks, he's got some skill players, he's got a veteran offensive line - now we gotta figure out left tackle, three really good backs and good defense.

"You've heard me say this a few times, gotta give Hue credit for bringing in Todd Haley which will allow Hue to be the head coach so I think this will be the first opportunity Hue's had to do what we know he can do as a head coach, as a leader. Even though Todd's calling all the shots on offense I think Hue obviously will have some impact there like he will on defense, so we're excited to see it."

'I think we'll see the real Hue Jackson' says Jimmy Haslam, Browns owner
Dee refused to quantify it, but believes fans will be happy this season with the product on the field.

"I think you can realistically expect progress,'' she said. "That's what we feel like. We've already made a lot of progress and we realistically feel like we're going to have progress this year."

As for defining it, she said "that's hard to define. Right now progress is...I think we're going to see a lot of progress among our players, I really do."

Jimmy acknowledged that he's excited to see what the real Jackson can accomplish now that he's working in lockstep with John Dorsey.

"Our commitment to him has been unwavering and still is,'' he said.

Jimmy was asked if it's more like Jackson's first year this year than his third given the fresh start.

"In some ways that's a fair question,'' he said. "In some ways you could say because of the talent he's had, particularly at quarterback, particularly last year, it could view it as his first year but we don't look at that. I know everybody's saying Hue has to win this many games or he has to win that many games. We don't look at it [like that.] We're really excited about the relationship that Hue and John [Dorsey] have and not just that they have but their staffs have, how the building is working together.

"I mean we're in here at 7 this morning talking about who else we might need to add to the roster so we feel good about the chemistry, we feel good about the work ethic but at the same time we all understand we've got to win games."

Jimmy acknowledged that they have a tremendous responsibility to loyal Browns fans.

"We're not going to do anything that's going to be a one-year flash in the pan,'' he said. "But at the same time, we feel pressure to win. We feel the responsibility that we haven't won before. We feel the fans' pain, too. We feel your pain. Our fans deserve better and hopefully starting this year they're going to get it."

Gosh this is depressing.

Good read. Thanks.

you want negative?

Chris Smith in at nose tackle and Danny Shelton out.

Ricardo Louis out for the year.
Josh Gordon, NObody knows or can say what is going on.
Antonio Callaway is one test away from being Josh Gordons situation in 2015.

Crowell with the Jets could be as good as any of the two new guys the Browns added, Chubb and Hyde.

2017, head coach Hue Jackson, Qb, Kizer, Best option 1. Corey Coleman, 1A. Duke Johnson.

2018, head coach Hue Jackson, Qb, Taylor, best option 1. Jarvis Landry, 1A Duke Johnson.

I'm saying it is possible they end up worse this year than last. The 2018 schedule is harder, because you face the afc west instead of the afc south.

you want positive:

Chubb and Hyde could pan out, Damarious Randall could solve some problems that the corners can't.

If Kendricks and Collins, and the other lbs get used right and stay healthy they could be a strength.

Those wide receivers oh that's an unknown.

It's literally impossible for them to be worse than last year.

Yeah, I mean progress would be 1 win.

I'll be honest: the Gordon news took some wind out of my sails. It seemed like "here we go again."

Aside from that, our QB play alone HAS to garner us 2-3 wins itself, plus the additions of Landry, Chubb, Hyde, and the experience of the younger guys.

This team has the talent to be an 8-8 team.... and maybe more. However, they have to learn to play together. Guys have to learn what the guy next to them, and the guy across from them, can do. We have zero carry-over QBs from last year. We have 2 or 3 new WRs, a new TE, and no Joe Thomas. It is going to be a learning process, as the players get to know one another, and the coaches see how they have to change schemes to compensate for any deficiencies the team has.

They also have new position coaches and a new offensive coordinator. They have a new special teams coordinator. Hue is moving into a true head coach position. There are bound to be bumps.

There re also always injuries, and disappointments. I think that the team is deep enough to handle some, not so much at other spots.

We'll see what happens. I feel better about this team than I have in quite a while. I think that foundation is there, with the ability to add to it as opportunities present themselves.

They could lose by larger score spreads. lol

The Josh Gordon news took of my hope away. I never believed him in the past and used to argue w/his supporters. This year, I actually had more faith in him. He seemed to be on the right track.

Then he drops a bomb on the organization. It never ends w/that guy.

I do think there are positives going on.

Dorsey did a good job in FA and w/some of the trades. Our overall talent and experience is better.

Keeping Hue tells me that perhaps the Haslam's finally get it. Stop listening to dumb fans and media types that are constantly demanding the firing of coaches.

I think we have a pretty solid coaching staff this year.

What year was it that it seemed he was doing really well and poised for a big season and then he went into rehab a couple days before the first regular season game? This seems like the exact same thing. Except this time the team gets an early warning.